HDM Rumor Thread Part Deux! Put all rumors here. [Text View] - Page 2

Helvetian

10-10-07, 06:14 PM

He has retracted the rumor, he posted an update.

And here's a quick follow-up from yesterday: Future Shop has gotten back to us about the disappearance of HD-DVD hardware from their website and retail locations. As we noted in yesterday's post, it's simply about turnover in Toshiba's model lines going into the holiday season. Here's a quote from their e-mail response: "I can assure you as one of our valued customers, that Future Shop has no plans to discontinue the sales of HD DVD hardware and software. In the coming weeks, both our web site and retail stores will receive replenished quantities of new hardware from Toshiba. Specifically the following three models A3, A30 and A35 are due for release." So consider that rumor debunked.

B72

10-10-07, 06:33 PM

But how can that be? Spielberg HATES HD DVD!:rolleyes:

I've read it once before , that Spielberg would only allow his Paramount titles to come out on both HD and Blu
but what happened with Close Encounters ?
if this rumor is true then I applaud Mr. Spielberg , as this would only benefit the consumers/ fans

maybe all directors should take this stand :rolleyes:

of course , in an ideal world : all studios would be format neutral and consumers could make the hard decision on which platform to view the movies we love - the end , thank you good night

ddelrio

10-10-07, 06:55 PM

I've read it once before , that Spielberg would only allow his Paramount titles to come out on both HD and Blu
but what happened with Close Encounters ?
if this rumor is true then I applaud Mr. Spielberg , as this would only benefit the consumers/ fans

maybe all directors should take this stand :rolleyes:

of course , in an ideal world : all studios would be format neutral and consumers could make the hard decision on which platform to view the movies we love - the end , thank you good night

With Close Encounters, Sony owned the distribution rights. I agree that Sony should also release HD DVDs. ;)

B72

10-10-07, 07:02 PM

ddelrio

10-10-07, 07:21 PM

Doh !
I guess that came out wrong - I meant why didn't he put the same pressure on " Sony " before releasing Close Encounters
was it too late ?
change of heart after the fact ?
( of course , this is all based in rumor , right ? )

Well, Spielberg is Dreamworks--so Paramount has a need to listen to his wishes. Sony, on the other hand, had nothing to lose and everything to gain by making Close Encounters a Blu-Ray exclusive.

B72

10-10-07, 07:21 PM

gotcha - thanks

Merrick97

10-10-07, 07:24 PM

Doh !
I guess that came out wrong - I meant why didn't he put the same pressure on " Sony " before releasing Close Encounters
was it too late ?
change of heart after the fact ?
( of course , this is all based in rumor , right ? )

It COULD also be possible that Spielberg truly DOES prefer bluray and that he was more than happy to work with Sony to make Close Encounters his first film in high def. Afterall, there are new interviews on the disc that he participated in done specifically for the re-release. Could SOny have held a gun to Spielbergs head and said "bluray exclusive or else."? I suppose....but for some reason, I doubt it.

B72

10-10-07, 07:39 PM

good point -
it is suspicious considering Universal won't release any of his flicks on either
format
( in which they own the rights , correct ? like Sony - No , Dreamworks ties )

looks like I need a direct line to Steven - I need to get to the bottom of this ASAP

hd nOOb

10-10-07, 08:13 PM

brian1212

10-10-07, 08:16 PM

What I find interesting is how the customer ratings for the players compare on that site:
Toshiba HD-A2 Rating = 4.55 with 989 ratings.
Pioneer BDP-HD50 Rating = 1.91 with 206 ratings.
Sony BDPS30 Rating = 2.41 with 903 ratings.
LG SMB-007 (combo) Rating = 2.11 with 513 ratings.

Seems like the toshiba is well liked unit while the BD players are not.

More likely some crazed HD DVD fan gone rampant.

anotheraviator

10-10-07, 08:39 PM

More likely some crazed HD DVD fan gone rampant.

Or 900 some odd people that felt they received good value for their money.

briankmonkey

10-10-07, 08:42 PM

More likely some crazed HD DVD fan gone rampant.

They've actually had threads asking people to vote multiple times for HD DVD as well as knock down scores for blu-ray.

brian1212

10-10-07, 08:49 PM

Or 900 some odd people that felt they received good value for their money.

I have nothing against honestly assessing a product, and I'm sure Toshiba purchasers are very happy with their product.

The following is what raises eyebrows:

They've actually had threads asking people to vote multiple times for HD DVD as well as knock down scores for blu-ray.

IRockSoAwesome

10-10-07, 09:27 PM

They've actually had threads asking people to vote multiple times for HD DVD as well as knock down scores for blu-ray.

Gonna ask for links on that. Not because I don't believe you, but because threads like those always make me laugh

Helvetian

10-10-07, 09:46 PM

They've actually had threads asking people to vote multiple times for HD DVD as well as knock down scores for blu-ray.

Just like the petty threads asking people to mistag HD DVD products with words like "defective by design" and "crap." Not to mention "hurry guys build your BD collections on DVDSpot.com, HD DVD is winning" etc.

philnerd

10-10-07, 10:08 PM

It COULD also be possible that Spielberg truly DOES prefer bluray and that he was more than happy to work with Sony to make Close Encounters his first film in high def. Afterall, there are new interviews on the disc that he participated in done specifically for the re-release. Could SOny have held a gun to Spielbergs head and said "bluray exclusive or else."? I suppose....but for some reason, I doubt it.

Sometimes with HD movies its all about capitalizing on the DVD release. In this case the film is being released again on DVD, which means it will be highly visible and probably advertised. In this case you release the "big hit" early in the format's life because you get double whammied if you release later when the HD market is bigger: (1) Lots of people will have purchased the DVD and will be inclined to not double dip so early (2) You don't get the buz generated by the advertising and word of mouth related to the DVD release.

Examples of this are new releases. Even Fox released Aragorn and Night at the Museum during the timeframe where they cancelled every catalog title so they could wait for BD+. If they'd held off on Night at the Museum and Aragorn until now, how well would they have sold? Not too well at all I imagine, for the reasons cited above. Everyone bought the DVD 6 months ago and the movie isn't "fresh" now. So it was worth risking the piracy to Fox on those in exchange for the bigger payoff by riding the theatrical and DVD release's coattails.

On the other hand, catalog titles like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, From Hell, etc.. that they cancelled will not be negatively impacted at all since they weren't linked to any ad campaigns or such. If anything, they might sell better now near the holidays and with a larger customer base.

The above reasons are why
(a) I don't consider Close Encounters on BD to be a big deal at all, since it just makes sense from a business perspective to release it now and I'm quite certain that Mr. Spielberg is fully aware of how and when films need to be marketed.
(b) I think its almost certain that Indiana Jones will end up in HD in '08 for the reasons cited above, so that makes me pretty happy :)

xboxboi

10-10-07, 10:35 PM

one advise for Bill Shill, if you want to get industry support, get Sony to pay for it like they paid BBI, Target, FOX and Disney. Dont expect freebies in the form of FutureShop ;) . if you want support, pay for it

xboxboi

10-10-07, 10:37 PM

Rumor: More CEs to cancel BD players
Source: From my own observation

Samsung has canceled their due to the fact that they couldnt meet the 31st October dateline which is just 20 days away.

Why i think more CEs will cancel their BD players? its 20 days til the dateline and there is basically zero news on the availability of the announced players.

Merrick97

10-10-07, 10:38 PM

Sometimes with HD movies its all about capitalizing on the DVD release. In this case the film is being released again on DVD, which means it will be highly visible and probably advertised. In this case you release the "big hit" early in the format's life because you get double whammied if you release later when the HD market is bigger: (1) Lots of people will have purchased the DVD and will be inclined to not double dip so early (2) You don't get the buz generated by the advertising and word of mouth related to the DVD release.

Examples of this are new releases. Even Fox released Aragorn and Night at the Museum during the timeframe where they cancelled every catalog title so they could wait for BD+. If they'd held off on Night at the Museum and Aragorn until now, how well would they have sold? Not too well at all I imagine, for the reasons cited above. Everyone bought the DVD 6 months ago and the movie isn't "fresh" now. So it was worth risking the piracy to Fox on those in exchange for the bigger payoff by riding the theatrical and DVD release's coattails.

On the other hand, catalog titles like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, From Hell, etc.. that they cancelled will not be negatively impacted at all since they weren't linked to any ad campaigns or such. If anything, they might sell better now near the holidays and with a larger customer base.

The above reasons are why
(a) I don't consider Close Encounters on BD to be a big deal at all, since it just makes sense from a business perspective to release it now and I'm quite certain that Mr. Spielberg is fully aware of how and when films need to be marketed.
(b) I think its almost certain that Indiana Jones will end up in HD in '08 for the reasons cited above, so that makes me pretty happy :)

I honestly dont get what this has to do with Spielberg releasing his first HD film on bluray as opposed to HD-DVD. Many people were saying that Sony "forced" Spielberg to release this film - which I highly doubt and I GUARANTEE they would not say the same thing if he was releasing a film like E.T. on HD-DVD only - when the only available evidence (His spokesperson said Spielberg was a fan of bluray, Universal being unable to release his films on HD-DVD) we have suggests that he approved the release.

Yet, there is NO, ZERO, ZILCH, evidence to suggest that he was being forced to release Close Encounters on bluray. Could it be that way? Yes, but the evidence says otherwise.

Either way, Spielberg's first release on HD is on bluray. No amount of FUD or false claims will change that.

Merrick97

10-10-07, 10:42 PM

Merrick97

10-10-07, 11:00 PM

2Channel

10-10-07, 11:12 PM

snip.......

PS3 is expected to soon offer a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functionality, noted Sony’s Eklund.

Comments:
While this isnt a 100% confirmation this is certainly a good indicator that the PS3 will indeed support the 1.1 spec.

Now if they could just get the standalone players.....

I'd say it is a 100% confirmation. You've got a Sony Exec saying in a public interview that the PS3 will be upgraded to support 1.1. There's no date as to when, leaving "soon" open to interpretation, but it's confirmation in my mind.

This makes the PS3 the lowest cost BD 1.1 solution as well, with a price of $399. It seems like stand alone players are a bad choice for BD buyers this Christmas season.

kkozma

10-10-07, 11:18 PM

This makes the PS3 the lowest cost BD 1.1 solution as well, with a price of $399. It seems like stand alone players are a bad choice for BD buyers this Christmas season.

And considering that aside of the majority of BD fans on this site, that is a HUGE problem. "Normal" people are NOT going to buy a PS3 as their primary DVD player. You'll have a few A/V nerds that will, but that's about it.

rx-8

10-10-07, 11:29 PM

I'd say it is a 100% confirmation. You've got a Sony Exec saying in a public interview that the PS3 will be upgraded to support 1.1. There's no date as to when, leaving "soon" open to interpretation, but it's confirmation in my mind.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with your logic... just because a Sony exec said so in public?

Read my signature. :D

2Channel

10-10-07, 11:46 PM

I'm sorry but I don't agree with your logic... just because a Sony exec said so in public?

Read my signature. :D

I have no come back to that ;)

PFC5

10-11-07, 12:24 AM

I honestly dont get what this has to do with Spielberg releasing his first HD film on bluray as opposed to HD-DVD. Many people were saying that Sony "forced" Spielberg to release this film - which I highly doubt and I GUARANTEE they would not say the same thing if he was releasing a film like E.T. on HD-DVD only - when the only available evidence (His spokesperson said Spielberg was a fan of bluray, Universal being unable to release his films on HD-DVD) we have suggests that he approved the release.

Yet, there is NO, ZERO, ZILCH, evidence to suggest that he was being forced to release Close Encounters on bluray. Could it be that way? Yes, but the evidence says otherwise.

Either way, Spielberg's first release on HD is on bluray. No amount of FUD or false claims will change that.

SS (or maybe $$) wasn't forced to release on BD. That is just crazy talk. Not only did he approve it, but they have a little click from him on the release from what I heard. That being said, I think the previous poster is right that it was released to coincide with the marketing blitz for the new re-release of CE3K on SD DVD. That just makes sense to me.

It could be that SS had heard about BD mopping the floor with HD DVD before they launched and is not up to date on them having the same PQ, or with HD DVD having better interactive features with the completed spec HD DVD players.

Who knows? Certain movies of his will eventually get released, but we do not know WHEN.

I already own all of his movies that I want on SD DVD except Jaws. I am not in a great hurry to see them since I already have something like 8-9 movies still unopened yet.

Just like Lucas' films, they will get released WHENEVER, but if they wait too long it will anger many people to NEVER buy them. :p

PFC5

10-11-07, 12:30 AM

rumor: Apparently the PS3 will be updated to inluded the 1.1 spec.

my source is:
Videobusiness
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488844.html

See the last line of the article:
However, HD DVD’s interactivity best mirrors the lifestyle of today’s growing YouTube, MySpace and Facebook fan base, countered Alan Bell, executive VP and chief technology officer at Paramount Pictures.

“Each of the formats creates great picture and sound, but we need something more to sell next-generation,” he said. “For younger folks, their choice of entertainment is to interact with others. Also, [Web interactivity] is an exciting transition between playing DVD and five to 10 years from now when things are digital.”

PS3 is expected to soon offer a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functionality, noted Sony’s Eklund.

Comments:
While this isnt a 100% confirmation this is certainly a good indicator that the PS3 will indeed support the 1.1 spec.

Now if they could just get the standalone players.....

I'd say it is a 100% confirmation. You've got a Sony Exec saying in a public interview that the PS3 will be upgraded to support 1.1. There's no date as to when, leaving "soon" open to interpretation, but it's confirmation in my mind.

This makes the PS3 the lowest cost BD 1.1 solution as well, with a price of $399. It seems like stand alone players are a bad choice for BD buyers this Christmas season.

No where does he say it will be updated to profile 1.1. He said "....a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functionality"

You have to learn the subtleties of the "Sony Speak". :D

It could be with games for all we know. The point is that you cannot trust Sony no matter what they say until it is in the "Here and NOW".

briankmonkey

10-11-07, 12:32 AM

Just like the petty threads asking people to mistag HD DVD products with words like "defective by design" and "crap." Not to mention "hurry guys build your BD collections on DVDSpot.com, HD DVD is winning" etc.

Oh man, it was a while back. If I can think of a quick way to find it I'll bring it up. I just found it amusing as it was done on what I thought was some no name site. Still love when the rally squad try to get people to stop buying titles until a certain buy day to try to bring a spike on some chart (has happened on both sides).

PFC5

10-11-07, 01:10 AM

Oh man, it was a while back. If I can think of a quick way to find it I'll bring it up. I just found it amusing as it was done on what I thought was some no name site. Still love when the rally squad try to get people to stop buying titles until a certain buy day to try to bring a spike on some chart (has happened on both sides).

I think BOTH sides have given bad reviews/votes on many sites. It really is dumb IMO, but it is easy to see when this happens, just by reading the reviews.

I guess kids will be kids, and both formats have their share, but make no mistake that BOTH sides are guilty of this BS.

Brian:

Maybe you can explain to me WHY I was on that infamous list at BD.com. I never even went their yet I saw posts with me as a Tier1 rating. I have not even posted much here until recently so I would like to know how I made that list. Any clue?

briankmonkey

10-11-07, 01:27 AM

I think BOTH sides have given bad reviews/votes on many sites. It really is dumb IMO, but it is easy to see when this happens, just by reading the reviews.

I guess kids will be kids, and both formats have their share, but make no mistake that BOTH sides are guilty of this BS.

Brian:

Maybe you can explain to me WHY I was on that infamous list at BD.com. I never even went their yet I saw posts with me as a Tier1 rating. I have not even posted much here until recently so I would like to know how I made that list. Any clue?

I honestly don't remember, I thought they deleted that thread. I do remember it was made in jest but I guess some took it more seriously than others. I participated but still I mentioned I didn't think it should have been made. I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over being on an HD DVD list, I'm sure I'm on many posters S list already, lol

It was pretty clear that you didn't have to be member of blu-ray.com. Some of course were members who joined strictly to stir the pot. Highdeforum forum for example had members asking to invade which is kind of funny. I'm sure there were other forums as well, I think one was even from a car forum, funny how far the "war" spreads.

I think all the blu-ray.com bashing helps promote the site, membership has risen fairly well.

IRockSoAwesome

10-11-07, 01:53 AM

Either way, Spielberg's first release on HD is on bluray. No amount of FUD or false claims will change that.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/5163ci8KkRL._SS500_.jpg

Directed by
Joe Dante
John Landis
George Miller
Steven Spielberg

Produced by
Steven Spielberg

http://imdb.com/title/tt0086491/fullcredits#directors

rover2002

10-11-07, 02:07 AM

Either way, Spielberg's first release on HD is on bluray. No amount of FUD or false claims will change that.

You may want to correct your 'FUD' as you put it ;)

Merrick97

10-11-07, 02:15 AM

You may want to correct your 'FUD' as you put it ;)

Excuse me, first "solo directing credit" release.

Merrick97

10-11-07, 02:19 AM

SS (or maybe $$) wasn't forced to release on BD. That is just crazy talk. Not only did he approve it, but they have a little click from him on the release from what I heard. That being said, I think the previous poster is right that it was released to coincide with the marketing blitz for the new re-release of CE3K on SD DVD. That just makes sense to me.

It could be that SS had heard about BD mopping the floor with HD DVD before they launched and is not up to date on them having the same PQ, or with HD DVD having better interactive features with the completed spec HD DVD players.

Who knows? Certain movies of his will eventually get released, but we do not know WHEN.

I already own all of his movies that I want on SD DVD except Jaws. I am not in a great hurry to see them since I already have something like 8-9 movies still unopened yet.

Just like Lucas' films, they will get released WHENEVER, but if they wait too long it will anger many people to NEVER buy them. :p

You could be dead on, but Im more inclined to believe that if SS wasnt ready for the bluray version to hit the market, Im inclined to believe the DVD version would have just gotten delayed. But who knows, dvd could be dead by then.

Ok, I will concede that this is a possibility.

PFC5

10-11-07, 02:20 AM

Excuse me, first "solo directing credit" release.

NOW, we are splitting hairs aren't we?

Who the hell cares WHICH format gets it first? Actually, with Twilight Zone, they BOTH get it at the same time. DONE! :D

IRockSoAwesome

10-11-07, 02:23 AM

Excuse me, first "solo directing credit" release.

He directed his segment solo. Is a short film not a film?

PFC5

10-11-07, 02:26 AM

You could be dead on, but Im more inclined to believe that if SS wasnt ready for the bluray version to hit the market, Im inclined to believe the DVD version would have just gotten delayed. But who knows, dvd could be dead by then.

Ok, I will concede that this is a possibility.

Lets make this clear. No WAY any studio is going to hold up their bread & butter SD DVD releases for a HD release. Would you hold up a release on the format that makes up 95% of your media sales for one on a media that is only 5% at best right now? It just AIN'T going to happen as much as we all wish HDM matters as much to the studios as it does to us.

I personally think a major day/date release SHOULD be released one week earlier on the studio's HD format of choice BEFORE the SD DVD release to make a statement and to give an added incentive for people to buy into HD.

I doubt follywood would even think about this as a marketing option though. :(

markrubin

10-11-07, 10:33 AM

OK: enough chatter

some posts deleted

markrubin

10-11-07, 10:36 AM

Let's keep THIS thread to rumors and, perhaps, a quick comment or two about the rumor. Don't want it getting off topic and off track. Thanks.

^

roma_victor

10-11-07, 12:08 PM

rumor: Indiana Jones series coming to HD DVD and Blu-Ray in 2008

my source is: Devin Faraci at www.chud.com

Link: www.chud.com

I have sent additional info to mods

Time frame til confirmation: About a year I guess.

your certainty level of confirmation: 7

Comments: My brother, Devin Faraci, works for www.chud.com and spent some time with Steven Spielberg and a few other internet movie reporters yesterday. One person asked Spielberg if they would be re-releasing the previous three Indy flicks before the fourth installment came out. Spielberg said at most a one night kind of thing for the super fans, but they may put them on HD DVD and Blu-Ray in 2008.

I have some follow-up on this rumor. Quint, one of the people who runs aintitcool.com, was at the same Q&A with Spielberg, and I informed him of the above exchange and asked if he can verify. His response:
___________________________________________________
roma_victor
by Quint Oct 11th, 2007
04:15:53 AM
Spielberg talked about HD and Blu-Ray Indiana Jones trilogy, but only as a joke when discussing the possible theatrical re-releases of RAIDERS, TEMPLE and LAST CRUSADE. Ultimately he felt seeing re-releases leading up to KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL would make INDY 4 feel less special. He wants the first time anybody has walked into a first run theater to see Indiana Jones on the big screen for the first time in 19 years to be Indy 4.

Then he followed all that up with something like "and I can just keep putting them out on DVD and they'll make just as much money! Blu-Ray and HD-DVD versions!"

I'm sure they'll be put on high-def and I'd guess they're going to do something like what they're doing with the Harry Potter films on HD release- wait until Indy 4 comes out on DVD and put out a giant collection. That's just a guess though.
________________________________________________

Here is the link:
http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/34376#comment_1716967

IMO this is not confirmation that the Indy series are coming out in HDM in 2008 or anytime, but merely shows that releasing to HDM is something that Spielberg has thought about generally

By the way, Spielberg mentioning BD and HD DVD in the same breadth indicates to me that he doesn't have a strong preference for either - for instance he didn't simply say "I can release the Blu-Ray version" and leave out HD DVD

TrevorS

10-11-07, 03:31 PM

I'd say it is a 100% confirmation. You've got a Sony Exec saying in a public interview that the PS3 will be upgraded to support 1.1. There's no date as to when, leaving "soon" open to interpretation, but it's confirmation in my mind.

This makes the PS3 the lowest cost BD 1.1 solution as well, with a price of $399. It seems like stand alone players are a bad choice for BD buyers this Christmas season.

You conveniently left out a crucial word "PS3 is expected to soon offer". True, not a very exciting word, but it says something completely different from what you are interpreting as confirmation of fact.

Calamus

10-13-07, 11:26 AM

NBC Universal may be up for some changes or may just be sold. This could be a giant step in the format war if they go neutral in an effort to build market share.

"The other shareholder, the French media group Vivendi, is not seen as a potential buyer or a long-term owner of the shares. Under a deal with GE, Vivendi has the right to ask the US company to buy back its 20 per cent stake or force a listing of NBC. "

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ebdbbdfe-776c-11dc-9de8-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1

Deja Vu

10-13-07, 11:30 AM

I predict Universal will drop HD DVD, show absolutely no interest in BD and go exclusively HD VMD. All other studios will quickly follow Universal's lead. :D

Cheers,

Grant

The world's first HD VMD fanboy!

rdjam

10-13-07, 11:36 AM

perhaps this speculation should be in the rumour thread?

wakashizuma

10-13-07, 11:46 AM

Microsoft should buy them :D lol

Michael Mullis

10-13-07, 11:46 AM

Cue the flood of "Universal will be neutral by (date)" posts from the Blu-ray faithful.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-13-07, 11:47 AM

perhaps this speculation should be in the rumour thread?

Or maybe the "fanciful theory of my hearts desire" thread ;)

MichaelHDDVD

10-13-07, 11:49 AM

Merrick97

10-13-07, 11:56 AM

If the HD-DVD camp really truly wants to extend the format war to almost a guaranteed stalemate acquiring Universal would accomplish that goal. As much as Id hate it, it would be the smartest move the camp could do.

nyg

10-13-07, 12:04 PM

IMO the smartest move HD DVD come do would be to pay Warner whatever it takes to make them HD DVD exclusive for 18 months or so. At minimum it would guarantee HD DVD's longterm survival against Blu-ray. However it could ultimately lead to HD DVD winning the format war. Warner is an absolutely huge studio with a lot of sway. OTOH if Blu-ray were to sway Warner into being Blu-ray exclusive for 18 months HD DVD would not survive this loss. Thus it will be very interesting to see if after the 4Q sales are in just what Warner will do.

As for Universal, clearly they could end the format war by going neutral but with Paramount's recent announcement that seems less likely than ever to happen. I think the Blu-ray fanboys need to wise up. There are absolutely no signs of that happening. I suppose someone will speculate that Sony may buy Universal next. That should be a fun read.

Lee Stewart

10-13-07, 12:26 PM

This is almost a year away - September 2008

Everdog

10-13-07, 12:31 PM

Cue the flood of "Universal will be neutral by (date)" posts from the Blu-ray faithful.

Remember the good old days when BR fanboys would stick a comment about Universal going neutral in every thread? Then they got smacked in the face with the Paramount deal. That seems to have slowed them down (until now).

rdjam

10-13-07, 01:17 PM

Yep. Only a BD person could see an article about GE waiting at least a year to decide what to do with NBC - and turn it into an "HDM format war" discussion.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the format war, nor would "the war" even factor into whatever decisions they ultimately make, a year from now.

However, to stretch it and claim that Universal is going format neutral takes "special chutzpah" that only some BD folks can muster! :p

Taperwood

10-13-07, 01:17 PM

IMO the smartest move HD DVD come do would be to pay Warner whatever it takes to make them HD DVD exclusive for 18 months or so. At minimum it would guarantee HD DVD's longterm survival against Blu-ray. However it could ultimately lead to HD DVD winning the format war. Warner is an absolutely huge studio with a lot of sway. OTOH if Blu-ray were to sway Warner into being Blu-ray exclusive for 18 months HD DVD would not survive this loss. Thus it will be very interesting to see if after the 4Q sales are in just what Warner will do.

It would be effective, but I would hesitate to call it smart. As with personal relationships, the art of business relations is to get somebody on your side without having to pay them. That makes for a much stronger relationship. At some point, all the studios will clearly see which side to back (or both) and the war will be over. I hope it is no later than early-2008.

Doug

PopcornReady

10-13-07, 01:21 PM

Microsoft already has been in bed with NBC for a long time -- MSNBC, anyone? Microsoft would be an ideal partner for the content Universal could deliver. Plus MS has a few extra billion lying around collecting dust.

Ruined

10-13-07, 01:41 PM

Timothy Ramzyk

10-13-07, 02:50 PM

wakashizuma

10-13-07, 03:07 PM

nyg

10-13-07, 04:42 PM

It would be effective, but I would hesitate to call it smart. As with personal relationships, the art of business relations is to get somebody on your side without having to pay them. That makes for a much stronger relationship. At some point, all the studios will clearly see which side to back (or both) and the war will be over. I hope it is no later than early-2008.

Doug
Great point and I agree. Not paying someone off is a far better approach. I also hope this thing is over within a few months.

nyg

10-13-07, 04:46 PM

IMO Microsoft should buy Universal and use content as hostage the same way Sony does. This will even the playing field even more. Plus they can earn profits too. A content division is the last thing Microsoft needs to have access to all the markets.
My 2 cents.

That work be interesting but doesn't Microsoft want to make money off of folks downloading HDM rather than buying physical discs?

Timothy Ramzyk

10-13-07, 05:22 PM

That work be interesting but doesn't Microsoft want to make money off of folks downloading HDM rather than buying physical discs?

Actually I can see Warner buying Universal, they dam-near bought MGM, and Warner does an excellent and profitable job of handling extensive film library's (Universal's is huge).

Sony could never afford Universal, they couldn't even really afford MGM when they bought it as a joint venture, and eventually lost the control of it's catalog to 20th Century.

Anyway it a year off, and if the path of HDM isn't set in the next 12 months, it's pretty-much dead-in-the-water anyway, some financial journals are saying it's too late now (((:()))

b.greenway

10-13-07, 05:25 PM

I heard a rumor that Transformers is the bomb, can anyone confirm?

wakashizuma

10-13-07, 05:29 PM

That work be interesting but doesn't Microsoft want to make money off of folks downloading HDM rather than buying physical discs?

Look @ Sony. Having a Music label and studio gives them the power to push the platforms they want.
By having Universal Microsoft can use exclusivity to push the platform they want or to damage their competition. It doesnt in anyway stop them from pushing their downloads. They can easily assure that iTunes and Blu-ray will never access Universal's library. In return they can release Universal movies on the formats and platform they want.
Also they can make profit by operating a movie studio and produce the movies they want (aka Halo).

spa

10-13-07, 05:30 PM

That work be interesting but doesn't Microsoft want to make money off of folks downloading HDM rather than buying physical discs?

I don't think it is an either/or proposition, but a both/and approach. They've invested way, way too much in HD-DVD for a company who wants it to lose. No, they're investing in both.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-13-07, 05:59 PM

I heard a rumor that Transformers is the bomb, can anyone confirm?

I read a review that used the word "flawless" already. :cool:

YONEXSP

10-13-07, 06:10 PM

I read a review that used the word "flawless" already. :cool:

Just finished watching it:

Equipment NEX XGLC 8" CRT PROJECTOR Calibrated with Moome Card
HD-A1 via HDMI and Component for comparison, just to make sure. Analog outs from the Player to my receiver
HD-A2 HDMI Just to compare with the A1 for the picture
Onkyo Receiver
Energy Speakers

All I can say is, AMAZING! Especially the sound, for a DD+ Track and all the fuss over that, all I can say is Who Cares! The bass was amazing, the surrounds for once being used for more than just bird sounds. It left me with the same ohh & ahh's the 1st time I watched Saving Private Ryan and Galdiator DTS tracks.

The image on my CRT was jaw dropping, esecially the action robots scenes, it is really hard to see that they are CGI. There is some noise in the very dark scenes, but no more than the original film print I saw at IMAX. Stunning, the only word really. The contrast is hyper real, the look that Mr Bay is famous for. For this type of movie quite appropriate.

All the reviews bar one have been toatally on the ball. Tier '0'. The only Lush review was from BeatBoy (Josh), who obviously can't help himself.

This is a total blind buy, and the scene with Megan Fox in HD, oh Crikey!!! brings tears to the eyes :)

Again, Megan Fox HD, crikey!!!

TrevorS

10-13-07, 10:14 PM

Speaking of rumors -- have I simply overlooked a post (always possible), or has rdjam decided not to share the info he was asked to sit on for thirty days?

theone2

10-13-07, 10:55 PM

Speaking of rumors -- have I simply overlooked a post (always possible), or has rdjam decided not to share the info he was asked to sit on for thirty days?

He said something about monday.

porsche1207

10-13-07, 11:00 PM

Speaking of rumors -- have I simply overlooked a post (always possible), or has rdjam decided not to share the info he was asked to sit on for thirty days?

Go back a page or 2...he posted he needs to check if something else happened before he can share...though some gusses got a smile from him.

xboxboi

10-13-07, 11:05 PM

After the Paramount news I thought the "Universal going neutral" rumors would be silenced at least until CES '08

Whatever, if the Blu-People want to self-comfort themselves that is alright with me
"Universal is going to release on Blu-Ray, Paramount is only gone for 18 months" :rolleyes:

are we seriously believe that Para and DW will only be gone from BD for 18 months? check the amount of attacks from BDA and its members on Para and DW, do those attacks look like appropriate when Para and DW will return to publish in BD ? me say, no amigo ! ;)

george king

10-13-07, 11:12 PM

brian212

but that is the exact argument bd supporters use against toshiba. their cheap players have driven off other ce companies.

mjg100

10-13-07, 11:22 PM

Go back a page or 2...he posted he needs to check if something else happened before he can share...though some gusses got a smile from him.

From reading between the lines it sounded like the TL51 works on first generation players. This is just my guess.

rover2002

10-13-07, 11:23 PM

He said something about monday.

Which year? :)

TrevorS

10-13-07, 11:41 PM

I'm quite ready to believe TL51 (at least when finalized) will be compatible with all players to date (given FW update), though I'm not prepared to presume that without official word from their manufacturer -- Toshiba. Interim information can only be considered rumor, though perhaps with high probability of turning out fact.

I'm also interested in learning what the situation is regarding the maximum read birate, whether it is increased with TL51 and/or the other 17GB/layer configurations. Hopefully, this is something we'll eventually learn from the DVD Forum since it obviously affects the official specs if real. Though once again, interim information cannot be considered as more than rumor until officially reported as fact.

SamwisetheBrave

10-14-07, 09:10 AM

I think the mods thought that rdjam's posts were too flirty. At least, that seems to be the only reason they all disappeared yesterday (along with several from me begging for hints). Hints aren't rumors, I guess (and I agree, mods).

SO...I will be watching this space throughout the day (Sunday) and expect to see a past rumor confirmed (YES!) on Monday, at the latest, from rdjam.

Some folks try to mock his efforts and insights, but if he was ball player, you'd love his batting average!:D

markrubin

10-14-07, 09:31 AM

some posts that did not meet Rumor thread criteria were deleted yesterday

also it looks like posts from another thread were merged into this thread by another mod

SamwisetheBrave

10-14-07, 09:57 AM

some posts that did not meet Rumor thread criteria were deleted yesterday

also it looks like posts from another thread were merged into this thread by another mod

Thanks for the update, Mark. Appreciate your work.

For the next 24 hours I will be like the neighborhood cat that is currently sitting under our backyard birdfeeder, keeping an intense eye on things!;)

smithfarmer

10-14-07, 03:34 PM

.... has rdjam decided not to share the info he was asked to sit on for thirty days?
Why wait at all? Point is, this is a rumor thread and as such, he should of posted his info a long time ago. ;)

edgebsl

10-14-07, 05:37 PM

I thought it was about being able to watch something new in 1080i.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

TrevorS

10-14-07, 09:08 PM

Why wait at all? Point is, this is a rumor thread and as such, he should of posted his info a long time ago. ;)

Not if he was asked not to -- it's called integrity and I'm very happy when people actually display it.

To try to explain: It's a question of personal character as displayed in the form of respect for others and the ability to keep confidences (in case the concept is a little foreign to some :).)

Lee Stewart

10-14-07, 09:37 PM

Robert D

10-14-07, 11:12 PM

Not if he was asked not to -- it's called integrity and I'm very happy when people actually display it.

To try to explain: It's a question of personal character as displayed in the form of respect for others and the ability to keep confidences (in case the concept is a little foreign to some :).)

Yeah but he could just tell me lol. :)

Winn

10-15-07, 03:17 AM

I sincerely doubt that he was alluding to a movie to be released on a TL51. It has not revceived Final Production Approval yet.

But . . seeing as how we are dealing in rumors - it could be the first movie on a TL Twin. AFAIK, it has received FPA.

I'm pretty sure he talked about knowing what the first title would be and when it would be released. Might have been someone else though.

theone2

10-15-07, 03:46 AM

Come on rdjam...today is the day ;)...give us some love :D

hd nOOb

10-15-07, 03:57 AM

I sent him a PM 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply YET.:confused:

PRO-630HD

10-15-07, 04:24 AM

He does rather relish the fact of having information and making people wait two to three days to get it. I believe that is why the thread was locked a few days back. He likes to post he has news and then 72 hours later finally say what it is.

rdjam

10-15-07, 05:40 AM

OK - I've waited about as long as I possibly can on this one! Too much pressure and PMs now, so I'll have to come clean. I hope my sources will not mind, as I held out as asked. I have tried to answer all PMs, so I'm sorry if I missed any.

Rumor: TL51 playing fine on 1st Gen XA1

My source is....... Engineer within HD DVD

Link - N/A

I have sent additional info to mods

Time frame til confirmation - Likely within 3 months

Your certainty level of confirmation[scale 1-10] - 9

Comments:

We all know by now that the 2nd and 3rd Gen HD DVD players are stated in various interviews to have no problem at all with TL51 discs said to be coming soon. However, there was an open question on the First Gen HD DVD players, the A1 and XA1, which use the identical first gen drive internally.

Well folks, They already have a standard XA1 playing TL51 discs just fine, and it was modified in firmware only. Both the drive and the player itself received firmware updates. The drive itself can be updated as part of the regular firmware download or CD, justas the player can be. All HD DVD drive feature PRML chips capable of 39 megabits per second, and the tables are also updated for allowable PRML combinations.

I am sure that there is more fine tuning and testing going on, but essentially, the question of backwards compatibility is answered. Of course, nothing is official till an official statement, but don't expect one until closer to CES in January.

I hope most of you understand that I had to hold this info back for as long as I could - much of what I said a while back was OK, but this one was special :) I have a good idea of what the first TL51 title may be, and the studio, but that is unconfirmed and would only cause problems for everyone if I started discussing it, but as I hear it, you will know in January if all goes well.

Again, all 2nd and 3rd Gen HD DVD players were never in doubt. Any of these will apparently play TL51 discs just fine. But it's nice to hear that they have the first Gen working in testing, since it bodes very well.

Robert D

10-15-07, 05:47 AM

So you believe that in Jan the first TL title may be announced? I figured all along that TL would work on all the players as it made no sense at all to pursue it if it didn't.

vinnie97

10-15-07, 05:51 AM

So you believe that in Jan the first TL title may be announced? I figured all along that TL would work on all the players as it made no sense at all to pursue it if it didn't.
Yes but you're not a staunch Blu-Bot either. ;) Thanks for that confirmation, Rdjam!

All HD DVD drive feature PRML chips capable of 39 megabits per second, and the tables are also updated for allowable PRML combinations.
Does this mean the first gen drives can also provide faster transfer rates from discs? This basically erases any benefit that Blu-Ray had.

rdjam

10-15-07, 05:51 AM

So you believe that in Jan the first TL title may be announced? I figured all along that TL would work on all the players as it made no sense at all to pursue it if it didn't.Yes, I think you will hear the title in January, if not before.

It certainly makes life easier for HD DVD if all players are compatible with TL51.

Personally, If it was my call, I'd launch TL51 even if the A1 and XA1 could not play it, since they are a smaller share of the existing players anyway (yes, I own an A1) - reason being that the price of 2nd and 3rd gen players are so cheap, that upgrading to a new player would be easy. And you would only be talking about a small number of films that would initially utilise TL51 anyway.

But it was great to hear this tidbit. Nothing in life is guaranteed, of course, but it makes the next 3 months much easier to enjoy!

mikemorel

10-15-07, 05:53 AM

I have a good idea of what the first TL51 title may be, and the studio, but that is unconfirmed and would only cause problems for everyone if I started discussing it, but as I hear it, you will know in January if all goes well.And now, all eyes turn to "the studio". :p

rdjam

10-15-07, 05:56 AM

Does this mean the first gen drives can also provide faster transfer rates from discs? This basically erases any benefit that Blu-Ray had.I did not receive any specific information relating to what the offical playback spec would be for TL51. My assumption is that testing is ongoing to determine the fastest playback rates that they can reliably obtain with the hardware being tested, before formal determination. Tens of thousand of Triple Layer discs have already been replicated for testing and more continues with the TL51 design on various lines.

rdjam

10-15-07, 05:57 AM

And now, all eyes turn to "the studio". :p:p Heh! Well I won't keep anyone in suspense on that one. I'm flat out not saying anything about that ever. :)

Robert D

10-15-07, 05:57 AM

Now all we need is an across the board price reduction in software pricing from Universal, Paramount, and Dreamworks then HD DVD could really take off.

Grubert

10-15-07, 06:00 AM

Rumor: 1G, 2G and 3G players won't be able to read TL51

Source: HD DVD rep at CEATEC

Link: Click here (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=257589&postcount=29)

theone2

10-15-07, 06:03 AM

Thanx rdjam 4 the info :)...good news for the G1 owners ;)

*coughing*LOTR*coughing*? :D

theone2

10-15-07, 06:08 AM

Rumor: 1G, 2G and 3G players won't be able to read TL51

Source: HD DVD rep at CEATEC

Link: Click here (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=257589&postcount=29)

Source:Unknown poster at B-ray.com

vinnie97

10-15-07, 06:14 AM

Rumor: 1G, 2G and 3G players won't be able to read TL51

Source: HD DVD rep at CEATEC

Link: Click here (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=257589&postcount=29)
Requires membership...I refuse to sign up at that sycophant haven just to read some anonymous counter rumor.

Grubert

10-15-07, 06:14 AM

Source:Unknown poster at B-ray.com

Rio is not unknown. For a long time he was a semi-insider here at AVS. Look for his posts in the archives.

rdjam

10-15-07, 06:14 AM

Rumor: 1G, 2G and 3G players won't be able to read TL51

Source: HD DVD rep at CEATEC

Link: Click here (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=257589&postcount=29)Back from CEATEC... Had fun with attending HD DVD and BDA keynote conference

BTW, I asked a rep at the HD DVD drive section in Toshiba booth, he clearly said that drives existing now and the ones that Toshiba is about to release are not able to read TL HD DVD-ROM by firmware update, since it requires hardware change (apparently this means mandatory of the spherical aberration corrector), however, those drives could read TL Twin Format disc (SL DVD-ROM + DL HD DVD-ROM).

This is very reasonable explanation. Since the first 45GB TL putting 3 layers within only 20 micrometers, it's very difficult to get "clean" signal due to the inter-layer crosstalk caused by narrow gap between layers. The limitation of the thickness comes from its 0.6mm structure, the deeper the recording layer is, the worse bit error rate becomes because of the spherical aberration.

Now, they gave up that "old" challenge, then mandate spherical aberration correction and widen the thickness for three layers to 35 micrometers to reduce crosstalk issue...Much of this was covered in my original posts a month ago.

The changes made in moving from TL45 to TL51 specifically addressed the "crosstalk" between layers. By changing the specs slightly, and by moving to a tighter dot pitch to get 17 gigs per layer, instead of 15 gigs per layer, the crosstalk was greatly attenuated - allowing the current players to handle the discs.

The specs from pressing the TL51 discs are tighter, however, than for DL30/34, which means that the pressure applied to the inner rim of the disc in pressing must be more precisely equal to the pressure applied to the outer rim, so that the depth between layers is consistent.

Not sure who the CEATEC "rep" referenced second hand by the poster was, but my info came from a senior engineer, for what it's worth. Changing the specs on spherical aberration would merely increase the manufacturing tolerances, but was not required.

plazman

10-15-07, 06:15 AM

imagine...clarity and relevance from Blu-ray.com as the source. Now, that does raise an eyebrow or two :)

rdjam

10-15-07, 06:19 AM

Source:Unknown poster at B-ray.comI think there is a reason Rio doesn't post here anymore. I am not surprised to find that the refutation's source is b'ray.com, tho.

I am confident in the info I have sourced.

vinnie97

10-15-07, 06:26 AM

Thanx rdjam 4 the info :)...good news for the G1 owners ;)

*coughing*LOTR*coughing*? :D
The silence speaks volumes, eh? :cool:

I did not receive any specific information relating to what the offical playback spec would be for TL51. My assumption is that testing is ongoing to determine the fastest playback rates that they can reliably obtain with the hardware being tested, before formal determination. Tens of thousand of Triple Layer discs have already been replicated for testing and more continues with the TL51 design on various lines.
Thanks again...I didn't realize the current limitation was based on disc toleration to centrifugal force/specs (but I should have!) rather than the hardware.

Grubert

10-15-07, 06:30 AM

imagine...clarity and relevance from Blu-ray.com as the source. Now, that does raise an eyebrow or two :)

Rio has said he was told one thing. rdjam has said he was told another.

Is that clear and relevant enough? :p

plazman

10-15-07, 06:31 AM

Blu-ray.com is where the BD generals conceptualize their anti HD DVD FUD, then feed it to their minions to use it here on AVS. While staying out of the fight themselves....so no accountability for them. They are lucky that so many are willing to get used like that....even folks with interesting sigs!

porsche1207

10-15-07, 06:32 AM

plazman

10-15-07, 06:35 AM

Who is Rio?why is he posting it on blu-ray.com? Is that a propaganda site?

plazman

10-15-07, 06:38 AM

Bill Hunt in all likelihood also gets his news from Blu-ray.com.

theone2

10-15-07, 06:42 AM

When did Bill Hunt became a reliable source??:confused:

vinnie97

10-15-07, 06:42 AM

rdjam

10-15-07, 06:43 AM

RDJAM, You realize this conflicts with what Bill Hunt reported...

Toshiba has also acknowledged that their triple-layer 51GB HD-DVD disc may not work in existing players (testing is apparently on-going). Finally, at the same event, Paramount and DreamWorks revealed that they have some 30 HD-DVD titles already planned for release in 2008 (one, we suspect, is Braveheart). You can read more at Home Media.

I hope you are right...anyway you can contact your sourse and find out what is up with Hunt's post?I suspect that Bill's post would have been sourced from the same B'ray.com poster. Do you have a link? I find that Bill is generally very keen to post "not very qualified" info to his site when it is good for Bluray. If he posted this info after October 6th, as I suspect, it may really come down to who Rio spoke with.

rdjam

10-15-07, 06:45 AM

The silence speaks volumes, eh? :cool::) I do not think the title in question is LOTR. Anything's possible, of course, but it's just not what I heard.

plazman

10-15-07, 06:47 AM

Anyone who posts exclusively on blu-ray.com and USED to be an insider here - was and is clearly blowing smoke....these are paid hacks. The same folks that dismissed Amir, are mich more likely to back the rumors from these guys! Imagine that.....when you must hide behind a site paid for by your format - it sends alarm bells for me at least. And I give that source and people posting there as insiders little credibility....kinda like Bagdad Bobs version of events :)

Grubert

10-15-07, 06:51 AM

Imagine that.....when you must hide behind a site paid for by your format

Scroll down and you'll see: "This web site is not affiliated with the Blu-ray Disc Association."

Blu-ray official site is www.blu-raydisc.com

rob71

10-15-07, 07:12 AM

porsche1207

10-15-07, 07:14 AM

I suspect that Bill's post would have been sourced from the same B'ray.com poster. Do you have a link? I find that Bill is generally very keen to post "not very qualified" info to his site when it is good for Bluray. If he posted this info after October 6th, as I suspect, it may really come down to who Rio spoke with.

His post is in his 2 cents post for 10/10

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa144.html#gc

then he refrences this link but i can't go there

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&=&article_ID=11347

rdjam

10-15-07, 07:19 AM

His post is in his 2 cents post for 10/10

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa144.html#gc

then he refrences this link but i can't go there

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&=&article_ID=11347Yes - As I suspected, his post of 10/10 is after the Rio post on 10/6 and is undoubtedly based on Rio's post, without any other credible supporting facts.

The link you indicate is nothing to do with that TL51 rumour at all, as Bill gives that link in reference to Paramount's releases and Braveheart, not in reference to his claim that "Toshiba says" TL51 won't work. Bill will be Bill.

PRO-630HD

10-15-07, 07:24 AM

RDJAM, You realize this conflicts with what Bill Hunt reported...

Toshiba has also acknowledged that their triple-layer 51GB HD-DVD disc may not work in existing players (testing is apparently on-going). Finally, at the same event, Paramount and DreamWorks revealed that they have some 30 HD-DVD titles already planned for release in 2008 (one, we suspect, is Braveheart). You can read more at Home Media.

I hope you are right...anyway you can contact your sourse and find out what is up with Hunt's post?

Give me a break!!! This is the same jackass that got an anonymous e-mail from some bluboy stating futureshop in canada was dropping HDDVD!!! Literally posts it as the gospel after getting it from 1 source then debunks it as rumour the next day after he confirms from Futureshop that this is not the case at all!!! Which he should have confirmed from the store in the 1st place. This guy is pathetic and brainwashed and spins any news as the death of hddvd. He is bought and paid for end of story .

PRO-630HD

10-15-07, 07:30 AM

So has "the studio" ever made an hddvd before? I am excluding New Line here.

rdjam

10-15-07, 07:34 AM

So has "the studio" ever made an hddvd before? I am excluding New Line here.Yes.

PRO-630HD

10-15-07, 07:42 AM

RD, I realize I am not using correct terminology here so bear with me. Is the 39 mbps changed from the actual rate of 30 mbps max or the overhead rate of 36 mbps max? As well when do you think we might see 17 and 34gb discs?

WayneL

10-15-07, 07:43 AM

Scroll down and you'll see: "This web site is not affiliated with the Blu-ray Disc Association."

Blu-ray official site is www.blu-raydisc.com (http://www.blu-raydisc.com)
Aside from the fact they advertise and prosetylize nothing but BD

rdjam

10-15-07, 07:44 AM

plazman

10-15-07, 07:53 AM

So your saying insiders are paid hacks?

IMHO - many are. Especially when they toe the company line about where and what to post about. IF you are posting exclusively on blu-ray.com. Then you are....I am not aware of any site like Blu-ray.com existing on the HD DVD side where insiders are instructed to post, but IF there were, then same standard would apply to them.....Also, I have noticed that unlike Amir, most BD insiders totally hide their credentials - why? to avoid accountability of what they say?

plazman

10-15-07, 07:55 AM

Scroll down and you'll see: "This web site is not affiliated with the Blu-ray Disc Association."

Blu-ray official site is www.blu-raydisc.com

I said 'paid for' not affiliated. Although with Blu-ray.com the being not affiliated is probably more technical than anything else...

Grubert

10-15-07, 07:58 AM

I said 'paid for' not affiliated.

Link? Proof?

rdjam

10-15-07, 08:06 AM

I think that regardless of what agreements are or are not in place to allow Blu-Ray.com to be what it is without Sony or the BDA being responsible - it's still clear that they HAVE to have sanctioned the use of the "Blu-Ray" trademark in "Blu-Ray.com" for the site to survive.

I think that this is what Plazman is referring to. Whether the site is run independently or not, and whether Sony/BDA is responsible for it's content or not, the use of the Blu-Ray trademark would require an official sanction for Blu-Ray.com to exist.

If not for that official sanction, they would be barred from using the trademark and would have to call it something else, like perhaps "B'ray.com" :) ...for which the mascot could be a blue donkey.

SamwisetheBrave

10-15-07, 08:11 AM

Yes, I think you will hear the title in January, if not before.

It certainly makes life easier for HD DVD if all players are compatible with TL51.

Personally, If it was my call, I'd launch TL51 even if the A1 and XA1 could not play it, since they are a smaller share of the existing players anyway (yes, I own an A1) - reason being that the price of 2nd and 3rd gen players are so cheap, that upgrading to a new player would be easy. And you would only be talking about a small number of films that would initially utilise TL51 anyway.

But it was great to hear this tidbit. Nothing in life is guaranteed, of course, but it makes the next 3 months much easier to enjoy!

Thanks, rdjam!:D

SamwisetheBrave

10-15-07, 08:14 AM

SamwisetheBrave

10-15-07, 08:17 AM

Scroll down and you'll see: "This web site is not affiliated with the Blu-ray Disc Association."

Blu-ray official site is www.blu-raydisc.com

This just gets funnier and funnier!:p

quantumred

10-15-07, 08:34 AM

plazman

10-15-07, 08:49 AM

Link? Proof?

Take a look at any Blu-ray advertisement and see what it says...check out who owns what and then take a look at blu-ray.com and let me know what you come up with....

As for why all the blu-ray insiders decided to go to that one forum in a co-ordinated move you'll have to figure that one out yourself :)

There are two types of folks on the format war - those who question what beatboy posts (as insider info) and those who don't? Grubert, which side are you on :D

Grubert

10-15-07, 08:59 AM

Take a look at any Blu-ray advertisement and see what it says...check out who owns what and then take a look at blu-ray.com and let me know what you come up with....

That does not amount to proof. Having advertisement space on a site doesn't mean you are paying for that site. Or is monoprice.com paying for avs?

As for why all the blu-ray insiders decided to go to that one forum in a co-ordinated move you'll have to figure that one out yourself :)

I already did a while ago. :)

There are two types of folks on the format war - those who question what beatboy posts (as insider info) and those who don't? Grubert, which side are you on :D

There are two types of fols on the format war - those who try to stick to the topic at hand and those who do their best to derail it by throwing all sort of red herrings left and right. Which side are *you* on?

boomster

10-15-07, 09:08 AM

Just wanted to post that whomever talked about Walmart getting more into HDM this month seems to be correct at least with our stores around me.

My Super Walmart has had HDM for a while, but during this weekend I couldn't find something at that one and went to the regular Walmart which I would consider non important as the population around it is much smaller and seems to be less progressive then the Super. To my surprise there was a new HDM section. It was a large stand in the middle of the electronics area. 2 sides of the square were Blu Ray, and the other 2 were HD DVD. They both get equal space. Each main side has a flat screen with the movies playing.

bobgpsr

10-15-07, 09:36 AM

Doesn't RIO work for Panasonic Hollywood Laboratory?

Greg Kettell

10-15-07, 09:44 AM

wakashizuma

10-15-07, 09:54 AM

Thanks for info rdjam.
But what about X360's drive? Considering it is a big part of HD DVD's installed, I think it's very crucial to maintain compatiblity.

plazman

10-15-07, 09:55 AM

Ah. I noticed rdjam answered it for me. But the word blu-ray and the logo belong to Sony and cannot be used without permission from Sony. Blu-ray.com could not function without sanction from Sony or Sony blessing it. They are making use of Sony copyrights directly! To me that is one indicator for sure....I will not be surprised if blu-ray.com was registered by Sony to be used as part of project hydra or whatever they call it....

Red Herring? A Blu Herring is when Blu-ray.com is used as a source. The same enthusiasm that you used to link something that Rio said to validate your position I am sure you would have accorded Amir :)

plazman

10-15-07, 09:58 AM

Just to clarify. The reason I said to look at a BD advertisement was because right next to the Blu Ray logo it says at the bottom that the Blu-ray name and logo are used with permission from Sony - this is independent of any company that advertises for Blu Ray.

I did not know mono price was sold under permission from AVS. Is it?

Timothy Ramzyk

10-15-07, 10:27 AM

Now all we need is an across the board price reduction in software pricing from Universal, Paramount, and Dreamworks then HD DVD could really take off.

I think the TL51 twin could be the greatest post-launch innovation in HD, and much more strategically important than just the seldom-needed 51 as an all HD disk. IMO a single-sided HD/SD combo is the bomb.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-15-07, 10:30 AM

Rio is not unknown. For a long time he was a semi-insider here at AVS. Look for his posts in the archives.

Then tell him to post it here.

nakedeye

10-15-07, 10:35 AM

There are two types of fols on the format war -

I think you ment folks, but fools also works :)

Timothy Ramzyk

10-15-07, 10:39 AM

So has "the studio" ever made an hddvd before? I am excluding New Line here.

Stop with the "is it bigger than a bread box" questions guys, and respect that some info is better left confidential. Release schedules are so tentative that I'd be reluctant to put that info out if I had it too. Also, the easiest way to not get future info, is betray confidence with the stuff you have now.

Dahlsim

10-15-07, 11:00 AM

I think the TL51 twin could be the greatest post-launch innovation in HD, and much more strategically important than just the seldom-needed 51 as an all HD disk. IMO a single-sided HD/SD combo is the bomb.

Outside of low cost of replication, software compatibility with DVD is the greatest advantage of hd dvd as a format (imo).

It's also the most consumer tangible feature which a great many average mainstream consumer would immediately recognize as an advantage, disks that play in their dvd players.

So far it has barely been used by the red team. Because combos are used only in certain disks many poteintial hdm buyers I've talked to don't even know this is a difference between the 2 formats. Most disks released only play in new players so that is what most people know.

To the extent that Twins could infiltrate the dvd sections at retail and not only the hd dvd sections, that would be a major marketing advantage for hd dvd.

If the DVD side of twins is limited to single layer however, what percentage of standard dvd's would be adequately covered? (I never pay attention to the number of layers on a standard dvd).

As long as the hybrid disk usage is applied in the current spotty manner, with higher prices and only the hd dvd section the effect is likely to remain minimal.

Winn

10-15-07, 11:00 AM

Testing still underway according to Tosh. (http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=3C644C50F0DA47FDA581C56C5FDF5FC7&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=3D3F9AA6B936472DB85F8B8367819859)

To sum up:

We have rumors going both ways about compatibility on the Toshiba machines. Both are fairly open and honest about their sources, so there is no reason to believe one over the other outside of blatant fanboyism. Indeed, I suspect both are accurately reporting what they were told.

What we are not hearing is any news about compatibility with the 306 add on. That is the rumor/news I want since it does represent a sizable number of HD DVD players.

st_nick

10-15-07, 11:03 AM

Stop with the "is it bigger than a bread box" questions guys, and respect that some info is better left confidential. Release schedules are so tentative that I'd be reluctant to put that info out if I had it too. Also, the easiest way to not get future info, is betray confidence with the stuff you have now.

Can I get an amen? I'd rather be surprised by good news then find out something was pulled because of leaks.

That said, I hope this is the reason Warner didn't follow through on the Hamlet (4 hour Branaugh version) release.

Grubert

10-15-07, 11:07 AM

What we are not hearing is any news about compatibility with the 306 add on. That is the rumor/news I want since it does represent a sizable number of HD DVD players.

IIRC the add-on has the same drive as the Toshiba A2.

SamwisetheBrave

10-15-07, 11:08 AM

markrubin

10-15-07, 11:18 AM

Let's keep THIS thread to rumors and, perhaps, a quick comment or two about the rumor. Don't want it getting off topic and off track. Thanks.

^^^

GmanAVS

10-15-07, 11:34 AM

Rumor: 1G, 2G and 3G players won't be able to read TL51

Source: HD DVD rep at CEATEC

Link: Click here (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=257589&postcount=29)

Rio is not unknown. For a long time he was a semi-insider here at AVS. Look for his posts in the archives.

Rio has said he was told one thing. rdjam has said he was told another.

Is that clear and relevant enough? :p

I guess time will tell who is correct and to have the better information.

Had it been posted anywhere else (other than blu-ray.com by a BD fanboy) I may give rio's information the benefit of doubt and treat it with proper credibility.

No reason to be overly defensive Grubert, so far most of what is coming out of bru-ray.com has been low on the totem pole as far as veracity, so time will tell and 90 days isn't to far:)

Kosty

10-15-07, 12:21 PM

I was also given similar information on 1st general player TL51 and twin compatibility when at CEDIA by Toshiba sources. Some of those were I believe different than those of rdjam.

I also talked to one other industry analyst who was told the same thing by another source that the Toshiba built or designed drives had no real issues with TL51s.

For some reason, TL51s were actually easier to read than TL45s.

The new Twins with a 4.5GB DVD third layer were good to go with all HD DVD players.

The Bandai Freedom I and II discs are DL twin format 15GB DVD 4.5GB DVD and they play just fine in HD XA1's and HD A1s. (edit: the DL 15GB 4.45GB twins)

The 2nd and 3rd gen players and Xbox 360 HD DVD drive all use Toshiba built or designed drives, the first gen players use a NEC drive.

I was told its certain that hardware in the 2nd and 3rd gen players and Xbox 360 HD DVD drives will work, possible firmware updates may be needed.

Only issue was the testing of the fist generation players but that results to date looked very positive.

That information was from month ago. YMMV

==================================

edit: The Freedom I and II discs are not TL twins, they are 15GB HD DVD 4.5GB DVD twins.

SamwisetheBrave

10-15-07, 12:28 PM

I was also given similar information on 1st general player TL51 and twin compatibility when at CEDIA by Toshiba sources.

The Bandai Freedom I and II discs are TL twin format 30GB DVD 4.5GB DVD and they play just fine in HD XA1's and HD A1s.

The 2nd and 3rd gen players and Xbox 360 HD DVD drive all use Toshiba built or designed drives, the first gen players use a NEC drive.

I was told its certain that hardware in the 2nd and 3rd gen players and Xbox 360 HD DVD drives will work, possible firmware updates may be needed.

Only issue was the testing of the fist generation players but that results to date looked very positive.

That information was from month ago.

YES!

Any rumors on any studios being courted (or desiring to do so themselves) to use the TL Twin format discs for their new releases? As has been stated before, THAT will be the bomb!

bato

10-15-07, 12:34 PM

The Bandai Freedom I and II discs are TL twin format 30GB DVD 4.5GB DVD and they play just fine in HD XA1's and HD A1s.
I read that those titles are DL Twin format 15GB HD DVD and 4.5GB DVD, are you sure they are TL?

Maybe Toshiba need the firmware coders from HD-VMD, those guys can make a dual layer drive read four layers, so it should be easy for them to make all HD DVD drives read TL 51GB.

Kosty

10-15-07, 12:38 PM

ugh, let's not put too much weight on the posts from this repeat offender (Bill Hunt)...I mean, check out the validity of his previous anti HD DVD remarks (and notice how wrong he often was). Bill Hunt I believe does let this biases and hopes get in the way sometimes and it seems he reads into things sometimes things that are not there when he read between the lines.

Rio also may not have been given that categorical a statement at CEATAC. Bill may have expanded on it a bit from what his sources told him.

If I recall Mark Knox from the HD DVD PRG recently said a "firmware update" may be required for TL51 and that testing was ongoing.

ChrisBeveridge

10-15-07, 12:42 PM

The Bandai Freedom I and II discs are TL twin format 30GB DVD 4.5GB DVD and they play just fine in HD XA1's and HD A1s.

The acronyms are all over the place these days, I can't keep up anymore. Regardless, Freedom's two releases are 15/4.5 for size. Considering the show is 23 minutes long, dual layer for either side is completely useless.

Kosty

10-15-07, 12:42 PM

The acronyms are all over the place these days, I can't keep up anymore. Regardless, Freedom's two releases are 15/4.5 for size. Considering the show is 23 minutes long, dual layer for either side is completely useless.I read that those titles are DL Twin format 15GB HD DVD and 4.5GB DVD, are you sure they are TL?

Maybe Toshiba need the firmware coders from HD-VMD, those guys can make a dual layer drive read four layers, so it should be easy for them to make all HD DVD drives read TL 51GB. My bad.

I was wrong, those are indeed DL combos, not TL Combos.

The Freedom I and II discs show up on the HD DVD stats page as 15GB twin combos.

The DVD and the HD DVD side are on the same side, but they are not TL.

I guess what they meant was that they were the first releases to put the HD DVD and DVD data on the same side in a Twin format, instead of a combo format flipper disc.

post above edited wth correct informtion

ChrisBeveridge

10-15-07, 12:44 PM

I guess what they meant was that they were the first releases to put the HD DVD and DVD data on the same side in a Twin format, instead of a combo format flipper disc.

With the qualifier of "In the US" at least. Not that it's been used excessively, but there have been a couple of Twin Format releases in Japan during 2006.

2Channel

10-15-07, 12:46 PM

Scroll down and you'll see: "This web site is not affiliated with the Blu-ray Disc Association."

Blu-ray official site is www.blu-raydisc.com

We are talking about the same web site that's the home of the Blu-Bloods right? The same web site that banned Kosty on his first post, and told him they were doing this not because of what he posted (which was not offensive in any way) but because he is known to support HD DVD?

It seems like an excellent source for news on HD DVD.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-15-07, 12:47 PM

Kosty

10-15-07, 12:56 PM

Well, I will concede that the twin may have issues supplanting a DVD release with only 4.5 GB allotted the SD DVD. That may be fine for delivering a reasonably sized feature, but there's no chance of loading up the plate with extras. Could be great for catalog titles though. A new modern MPEG-2 encode can get pretty small for 480i content and most movies and DD soundtrack will probably now fit.

If the base movie fits on the 4.5 GB layer for standard DVD compatibility, what's the big deal for the extras to be only accessed through HD DVD?

Most of the times you watch the extras once, it accomplishes the goal of letting you watch the DVD movie on older legacy or portable DVD players in the house or in the car, you get the silk screen, and don't have to flip it, and it encourages you to move to HD DVD players to see the extras.

Dahlsim

10-15-07, 01:20 PM

A new modern MPEG-2 encode can get pretty small for 480i content and most movies and DD soundtrack will probably now fit.

If the base movie fits on the 4.5 GB layer for standard DVD compatibility, what's the big deal for the extras to be only accessed through HD DVD?

Most of the times you watch the extras once, it accomplishes the goal of letting you watch the DVD movie on older legacy or portable DVD players in the house or in the car, you get the silk screen, and don't have to flip it, and it encourages you to move to HD DVD players to see the extras.

If extra's require an hd dvd player then it could be hard to truly replace the entire dvd release.

Still think these may be best suited to special edition dvd releases where it's also possible to add a premium to price for profit.

rdjam

10-15-07, 01:32 PM

Testing still underway according to Tosh. (http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=3C644C50F0DA47FDA581C56C5FDF5FC7&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=3D3F9AA6B936472DB85F8B8367819859)

To sum up:

We have rumors going both ways about compatibility on the Toshiba machines. Yes; That article jives precisely with what I have posted. They are definitely still in testing, and they are definitely refining compatibility with existing drives. Both yes. What Mark Knox says in that interview would be correct.

What we are not hearing is any news about compatibility with the 306 add on. That is the rumor/news I want since it does represent a sizable number of HD DVD players.The Xbox 360 add-on drive is part of the "existing first gen" drives and it is my understanding that they are working to include this - I'm not sure, but it may be based on the same NEC/Toshiba hardware design.

bobgpsr

10-15-07, 01:39 PM

I'm not sure, but it may be based on the same NEC/Toshiba hardware design.There is no NEC in the 360 addon. It is a Toshiba drive very similar to what is in the XA2.

2Channel

10-15-07, 01:40 PM

snip........

The Xbox 360 add-on drive is part of the "existing first gen" drives and it is my understanding that they are working to include this - I'm not sure, but it may be based on the same NEC/Toshiba hardware design.

Actually the drive mecahnism in the 360 add-on is the same as the G2 players as Grubert posted.

Kosty

10-15-07, 02:00 PM

If extra's require an hd dvd player then it could be hard to truly replace the entire dvd release.

Still think these may be best suited to special edition dvd releases where it's also possible to add a premium to price for profit. maybe.. maybe not, if you said the extras were now in high def.

Those that care about the extras tend to be more highly involved anyway and would likelier to go HD DVD.

Its first a way to have the portability advantage some like about combos.

This would be a way not to replace initially not day and date releases but catalog releases.

As HD DVD players become more common and cheaper,then this could replace the DVD SKU

Consider it an enhanced HD DVD with backward compatibility to have for the entire movie in DVD.

But consumers may like it if its marketed for new releases to have the extras in HD or on a second disc. The studios would like it because the movie is only on one shiny disc so it can't be handed off to a friend and reduce sales.

Deja Vu

10-15-07, 03:35 PM

Here's what I don't understand. If disk capacity is really that important to the HD formats then why wouldn't everyone interested in the optical HD formats celebrate if the TL51 disks work on all HD DVD players. Is this not an improvement for HD in general? I suspect people here, whether HD DVD fans or BD fans don't want to see any improvement in the opposing format, even if it betters HD in general. The fact is is that SL HD DVD can look great (Firewall is a good example) and SL BD can look great. This is all about boasting rights for PR purposes only - my dad is bigger than your dad. There are people here who won't buy into HD DVD until the TL51 is a confirmed reality, yet buy SL BD disks. WTF!!!

Cheers,

Grant

Timothy Ramzyk

10-15-07, 04:44 PM

Is this not an improvement for HD in general? I suspect people here, whether HD DVD fans or BD fans don't want to see any improvement in the opposing format, even if it betters HD in general.

Cheers,

Grant
Sad but true, it's like people claiming they don't give a rip about PIP and interactivity, when you dam well if it was their side that had it, they would talk about it as if it were the second coming whether they used it or not.

There's a thread called "is 30GB really enough?" Hell, if 15-25GB is really enough in some cases, then ya 30 is enough. It's a pissing contest, but that's what it's down to now.

Merrick97

10-15-07, 05:05 PM

Some non TL51 news that Im going to call a rumor until I see the actual press release:

According to Bill Hunt:

Terminator 3 from WB will apparently be the first bluray title to use the IME movie experience that has long been exclusive to HD-DVD films. Those are my words not Bills.

" Warner has also announced that Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines is finally coming to Blu-ray Disc on 12/4 (the title is already available on HD-DVD). The disc will include new filmmaker's commentary, 2 other audio commentaries, the In Movie Experience, an introduction by Arnold Schwarzenegger and 40 minutes of additional features (SRP $28.99)."

Source: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

I do find it strange that thedigitalbits is the only place that seems to have ANY info on this. Nevertheless, Im happy to see 1.1 features showing up so soon.

coneyparleg

10-15-07, 06:52 PM

TrevorS

10-15-07, 07:05 PM

Merrick97

10-15-07, 07:09 PM

Doesn't Crank do IME? I'll check when I get home

Yes, but not TRUE IME.

theone2

10-15-07, 07:11 PM

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1197/terminator3.html

edgebsl

10-15-07, 09:54 PM

About the tl51 research, if the rumors are true wouldnt it be ironic that they would have more storage capacity for bigger encodes but many would be viewing it in 1080i?

I kinda feel unless there is near 100 percent comaptibility they should not release titles on Blu 100 or HD51...At least not until there have been players compatible for several years. There are going to be some angry people over that.

I still dont see what would be so terrible about 2 discs sets.
Joe blo consumer seems to get excited about dvd two disc special editions.Why wouldnt the same work for HDM? Studios seem to like being able to jack the price up when its a multi disc set.

These are very good advances for storage and would work well in the pc market.
In HDM putting out limited compatibility discs on big releases is a nightmare waiting to happen.

Im going to differ from the pack and say that HD doesnt need to move past the 30gb to be competitive. They can move to put big special features on a second disc and it would be a huge success. I wouldnt criticize that in the least.
Its worked well for dvd.

Grubert

10-16-07, 09:10 AM

nakedeye

10-16-07, 09:11 AM

About the tl51 research, if the rumors are true wouldnt it be ironic that they would have more storage capacity for bigger encodes but many would be viewing it in 1080i?

How it that ironic? Most users for both HD and Blu watch in 720p or 1080i...

TL51 will still store 1080p as does all current HD DVD's... It's just that not many people have 1080p sets...

edgebsl

10-16-07, 10:45 AM

How it that ironic? Most users for both HD and Blu watch in 720p or 1080i...

TL51 will still store 1080p as does all current HD DVD's... It's just that not many people have 1080p sets...

I disagree ,it's dropping down in price. I saw a 42 inch LCD at Wal Mart w 1080p for a rock bottom price. 1080p pjs are still a tad expensive but as soon as it drops below $2000 I'm getting one!

The point was ,you would have a disc with more storage space but only those with the old 1080i players would be able to actually play the movie.
Leaving those who purchased the newer players who can do 1080p 24 out in the cold.

Of course this is all rumor and speculation, it could play in ALL the players or NONE. We dont know yet. I just found it humorous that might be the case.

Robert D

10-16-07, 11:34 AM

I disagree ,it's dropping down in price. I saw a 42 inch LCD at Wal Mart w 1080p for a rock bottom price. 1080p pjs are still a tad expensive but as soon as it drops below $2000 I'm getting one!

The point was ,you would have a disc with more storage space but only those with the old 1080i players would be able to actually play the movie.
Leaving those who purchased the newer players who can do 1080p 24 out in the cold.

Of course this is all rumor and speculation, it could play in ALL the players or NONE. We dont know yet. I just found it humorous that might be the case.

You do know that very few displays even accept 1080p/24 and if they do most don't handle it correctly and simply convert the 108p/24 input back to 1080/60?

edgebsl

10-16-07, 11:43 AM

On the Front PJ side we have a bit better ratio there.Almost all the 1080p pjs do 24p.

I sometimes forget the popularity of lcd and plasmas.
Its always been my experience that those 42 inch things still feel like "watching tv" to me.Not like I'm in a qoute "home theater"

Nevertheless LCD and Plasmas are super hot items.ANd that lack of true 1080p 24 support is a big deal.
1080p 60 is still slightly better than 1080i. But I agree they need to crack down on sets thst dont do true 24p or have problems reading 3:2 correctly.

nakedeye

10-16-07, 11:51 AM

The point was ,you would have a disc with more storage space but only those with the old 1080i players would be able to actually play the movie.
Leaving those who purchased the newer players who can do 1080p 24 out in the cold.

I think you are severly mistaken. I don't know what is making you think that only the old player can read the disks, but all the player will be able to read them...

edgebsl

10-16-07, 12:24 PM

relax, its only a rumor at this point.

nakedeye

10-16-07, 12:35 PM

relax, its only a rumor at this point.

yeah it is, but you are not reading it correctly. The rumor is that the TL51 will work on ALL HD DVD player INCLUDING the A1/XA1, not EXCLUDING all the other players.
:)

Timothy Ramzyk

10-16-07, 01:03 PM

You do know that very few displays even accept 1080p/24 and if they do most don't handle it correctly and simply convert the 108p/24 input back to 1080/60?

I've also begun to see enough credible viewer say the whole 1080p-24 thing enters the realm of the "French Alteration".

"French Alteration" is a term we used to use in theater when a fussy self-absorbed actor constantly complained that their costume didn't fit right. We'd nod, take their costume, then call them back for a fitting the next day where we would tell them how right they were and how the alterations flattered them. They were usually thrilled, and of course we hadn't done a thing to it.

HD-DownUnder

10-16-07, 02:16 PM

I've also begun to see enough credible viewer say the whole 1080p-24 thing enters the realm of the "French Alteration".

"French Alteration" is a term we used to use in theater when a fussy self-absorbed actor constantly complained that their costume didn't fit right. We'd nod, take their costume, then call them back for a fitting the next day where we would tell them how right they were and how the alterations flattered them. They were usually thrilled, and of course we hadn't done a thing to it.

Well how do you explain to me then when I disable 24p output and can see a noticeable jerkiness.

24p DOES make a difference! Anyone who tries to say otherwise is dreaming.

nakedeye

10-16-07, 02:25 PM

Well how do you explain to me then when I disable 24p output and can see a noticeable jerkiness.

24p DOES make a difference! Anyone who tries to say otherwise is dreaming.

Realy cause 24p on your HD DVD player should be extremely jerky....

edgebsl

10-16-07, 02:40 PM

yeah it is, but you are not reading it correctly. The rumor is that the TL51 will work on ALL HD DVD player INCLUDING the A1/XA1, not EXCLUDING all the other players.
:)

I didnt read that, I thought the A1 and Xa1 were the only ones having luck so far.

That is good news if it pans out.

scaesare

10-16-07, 03:01 PM

Realy cause 24p on your HD DVD player should be extremely jerky....

It will have the same framerate judder issues you see in the theater.

It will NOT, however, have the additionl 3:2 cadence judder induced by playing 24fps source on a 60fps display.

IOW: the poster you were responding to was correct, assuming he has a display capable of diplaying an even-multiple-of-24 framerate.

nakedeye

10-16-07, 07:12 PM

It will have the same framerate judder issues you see in the theater.

It will NOT, however, have the additionl 3:2 cadence judder induced by playing 24fps source on a 60fps display.

IOW: the poster you were responding to was correct, assuming he has a display capable of diplaying an even-multiple-of-24 framerate.

Actualy no, you are wrong.

At this time, the HD DVD players can not out put at 23.97 fps required of tv's

They output at 24fps.

the net result is the picture is jerky beyond belief.

Anyway this is all off topic...

bobgpsr

10-16-07, 07:36 PM

At this time, the HD DVD players can not out put at 23.97 fps required of tv's

They output at 24fps.Just the HD-XA2, not so for the HD-A20 (it does 23.976 that is 24/1.001).

scaesare

10-16-07, 07:50 PM

Actualy no, you are wrong.

At this time, the HD DVD players can not out put at 23.97 fps required of tv's

They output at 24fps.

the net result is the picture is jerky beyond belief.

Anyway this is all off topic...

I don't believe your catagorical statement to be true of all HD DVD players. Some of the Toshiba's do and several software playback applications can.

If your intent was to address a subset of the playback hardware that may be broken, then that's true. But the poster could most certainly be correct.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-16-07, 08:51 PM

Well how do you explain to me then when I disable 24p output and can see a noticeable jerkiness.

24p DOES make a difference! Anyone who tries to say otherwise is dreaming.

I can't help how these things affect your mood.

2Channel

10-16-07, 11:51 PM

FCC Documents Show Another New PS3 Model Coming
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9297

shamus

10-17-07, 01:05 AM

Confirmed on highdefdigest (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Exclusive_HD_Content/Disc_Announcements/Terminator_3_Bound_For_Blu-ray_This_December/1069)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/images/post/3/3998/original.jpeg

Do I see a Dolby TrueHD logo?

Yes you do!!!!

xboxboi

10-17-07, 03:11 AM

Robert D

10-17-07, 03:13 AM

Maybe the title has two copies of the movie on the same disc (50GB disc?) and then it may be possible to have PIP.

Grubert

10-17-07, 03:17 AM

why do advance pip features for BD when there is NONE set top player that can play them? :confused: :confused:

The Phantom of the Opera was released in April 2006 with a TrueHD track no player could decode until four months later.

nakedeye

10-17-07, 07:51 AM

The Phantom of the Opera was released in April 2006 with a TrueHD track no player could decode until four months later.

Ummm Every player was able to decode the TrueHD track from day one. In fact every player is mandated to decode it, UNLIKE BD.

Grubert, you know better than that.

nakedeye

10-17-07, 07:53 AM

Just the HD-XA2, not so for the HD-A20 (it does 23.976 that is 24/1.001).

My bad, I was incorrectly thinking that the a20 had the same issue.

ShagMan

10-17-07, 08:27 AM

Ummm Every player was able to decode the TrueHD track from day one. In fact every player is mandated to decode it, UNLIKE BD.

Grubert, you know better than that.

Yeah, but only two channels at first right?

Grubert

10-17-07, 08:30 AM

Yeah, but only two channels at first right?

That's right.

plazman

10-17-07, 08:34 AM

Isn't the XA2 the ONLY HD DVD player doing 24fps v. 23.97? All the other 1080p Tosh have the correct timing. Right? Including all 3-gen players.

laric

10-17-07, 09:43 AM

Isn't the XA2 the ONLY HD DVD player doing 24fps v. 23.97? All the other 1080p Tosh have the correct timing. Right? Including all 3-gen players.
Yes, that is correct, only XA2 have this bug, Gen3 works flawlessly in that regard.

--Patrice

Ripnickus

10-17-07, 10:05 AM

Ummm Every player was able to decode the TrueHD track from day one. In fact every player is mandated to decode it, UNLIKE BD.

Grubert, you know better than that.

Ummm... Wrong.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/195

nakedeye

10-17-07, 10:14 AM

Ummm... Wrong.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/195

Ummmm..........

Read the article. You are wrong my friend.

There were a few TrueHD tracks around before the 2.0 update. And they ALL played on EVERY player.

I had one, I know. Did you?

Yes indeed they were 2.0, and not 5.1, but they still were TrueHD tracks.

The point of the original poster was why include something NOBODY can use right now. It is very valid. Not for long, but valid non the less. The comparison to TrueHD was intentionaly missleading and inacurate. There are many people out there who still to this day only have 2.0 set ups with VERY high quality systems. Grupert knows better:mad:

Grubert

10-17-07, 10:28 AM

Ummmm..........

Read the article. You are wrong my friend.

There were a few TrueHD tracks around before the 2.0 update. And they ALL played on EVERY player.

I had one, I know. Did you?

Yes indeed they were 2.0, and not 5.1, but they still were TrueHD tracks.

No.

The TrueHD track on PotO is 5.1. But the A1 and XA1 players could only decode it as 2.0 before the 2.0 firmware version, which enabled full TrueHD decoding.

Same thing with The Perfect Storm or Training Day. Just look at the highdefdigest review:

I first reviewed 'Training Day' on HD DVD back in May 2006, and though I gave the disc's Dolby Digital-Plus track high marks, it wasn't without a moment of hesitation. Because as good as sounded, it was hard to be unequivocal in my praise knowing that there was also a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack encoded on the disc that early adopters couldn't yet gain access to since the first-gen Toshiba HD-A1 players had yet to support the format.

plazman

10-17-07, 10:37 AM

No.

The TrueHD track on PotO is 5.1. But the A1 and XA1 players could only decode it as 2.0 before the 2.0 firmware version, which enabled full TrueHD decoding.

So you COULD access the TruHD track even on the earliest players - right? TruHD decoding was in the player. How will anyone access these PiP features in any way whatsoever?

Now, when it was decoding to 2 ch, was it routing all the audio to 2 speakers or was it leaving out audio from the disk...but I agree that fw 2.0 enhanced TruHD to 5.1 channels.

Greg Kettell

10-17-07, 10:50 AM

So you COULD access the TruHD track even on the earliest players - right? TruHD decoding was in the player. How will anyone access these PiP features in any way whatsoever?

The PS3 getting an update is the logical assumption.

Everdog

10-17-07, 10:50 AM

The Phantom of the Opera was released in April 2006 with a TrueHD track no player could decode until four months later.

So in April 2006 if you selected the TrueHD soundtrack, would it play or not. Would it be decoded as 2.0 or "no player could decode (it) until four months later"?
If it could still play, then I think it would have been better to say "The Phantom of the Opera was released in April 2006 with a 5.1 TrueHD track no player could decode it as 5.1 (2.0 only) until four months later."

No one would argue with that. Oh, wait I forget where I am. They still would.:D

Grubert

10-17-07, 10:52 AM

So you COULD access the TruHD track even on the earliest players - right? TruHD decoding was in the player. How will anyone access these PiP features in any way whatsoever?

Now, when it was decoding to 2 ch, was it routing all the audio to 2 speakers or was it leaving out audio from the disk...but I agree that fw 2.0 enhanced TruHD to 5.1 channels.

That I don't know, I bought my A1 when 2.0 firmware was already available.

My point was that we have seen titles being released with content that no players could fully benefit from at the time.

That said, I think the most widely used Blu-ray device will probably support PiP by early December.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-17-07, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by plazman View Post
Isn't the XA2 the ONLY HD DVD player doing 24fps v. 23.97? All the other 1080p Tosh have the correct timing. Right? Including all 3-gen players.
Yes, that is correct, only XA2 have this bug, Gen3 works flawlessly in that regard.

--Patrice

This is beyond my ability to understand. I have a XA2 and 1080-I projector, but will be getting a 1080-P, do I have a problem awaiting me?

Everdog

10-17-07, 11:09 AM

Has it been confirmed that every model of Blu-Ray player currently available (besides the PS3) will NOT be able to play PiP EVER?

Are there any CURRENT models with dual tuners that can be upgraded?

It would be very weird indeed if a title was released with features that no currently available stand-alone could play ever.

Do we think that the studios will be kind enough to point on on the discs that certain features will never work on players that are not 1.1 compatible?

That is what I worry about. In a year you will see discs with a whole grid of what can not play. This feature only works on 1.1, this feature works on 1.0, and this feature only works with 2.0.:eek:

plazman

10-17-07, 11:12 AM

This is beyond my ability to understand. I have a XA2 and 1080-I projector, but will be getting a 1080-P, do I have a problem awaiting me?

I am feeding a 1080p/24fps pio plasma with a 1080p/24pfs output from my Xa-2 and there are no problems that me or anyone I know of can detect. We just watched Transformers last night...

FWIW, before the fw upgrade, I was feeding 1080i to my display...

Kikar

10-17-07, 11:18 AM

Ummm... Wrong.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/195

The article states that they went from 2.0 support to 5.1. They were decoding True HD just outputing as 2.0 not 5.1 (I remember this update because then I could finally use the 6ch analog outs.)....so I guess ...ummm....he was right.:D

Ripnickus

10-17-07, 12:03 PM

Ummmm..........

Read the article. You are wrong my friend.

There were a few TrueHD tracks around before the 2.0 update. And they ALL played on EVERY player.

I had one, I know. Did you?

Yes indeed they were 2.0, and not 5.1, but they still were TrueHD tracks.

The point of the original poster was why include something NOBODY can use right now. It is very valid. Not for long, but valid non the less. The comparison to TrueHD was intentionaly missleading and inacurate. There are many people out there who still to this day only have 2.0 set ups with VERY high quality systems. Grupert knows better:mad:

And I am sure that STEREO TrueHD track just rocked before the 2.0 fw.

nakedeye

10-17-07, 12:21 PM

And I am sure that STEREO TrueHD track just rocked before the 2.0 fw.

As I said before, there are MANY 2.0 systems out there.

Point being it could still be used when on the disc.

any 1.1 profile now CAN NOT accesed on ANY player. I expect that to change by next week however.

nakedeye

10-17-07, 12:27 PM

No.

The TrueHD track on PotO is 5.1. But the A1 and XA1 players could only decode it as 2.0 before the 2.0 firmware version, which enabled full TrueHD decoding.

Same thing with The Perfect Storm or Training Day. Just look at the highdefdigest review:

As I stated it could absolutly be decoded. In 2.0, not 5.1, but you could still get lossless sound. Can you get even ANY part of a 1.1 feture to work now? Even just s TEENY part???

plazman
So you COULD access the TruHD track even on the earliest players - right? TruHD decoding was in the player. How will anyone access these PiP features in any way whatsoever?

Now, when it was decoding to 2 ch, was it routing all the audio to 2 speakers or was it leaving out audio from the disk...but I agree that fw 2.0 enhanced TruHD to 5.1 channels

That I don't know, I bought my A1 when 2.0 firmware was already available.

My point was that we have seen titles being released with content that no players could fully benefit from at the time.

That said, I think the most widely used Blu-ray device will probably support PiP by early December.

So you admitantly have no idea, and I told you earlier that I *DID* in fact try this.

What is your sig, "Truth. Information. Relevance. Clarity."

I expect more from you. You have fallen a notch in my book.

Neo1965

10-17-07, 12:41 PM

As I stated it could absolutly be decoded. In 2.0, not 5.1, but you could still get lossless sound. Can you get even ANY part of a 1.1 feture to work now? Even just s TEENY part???

So you admitantly have no idea, and I told you earlier that I *DID* in fact try this.

What is your sig, "Truth. Information. Relevance. Clarity."

I expect more from you. You have fallen a notch in my book.

nakedeye, give it a rest. You're wrong.

I have the HD-A1 since launch day, I went through about 5-7 firmware upgrades (I lost count) without bricking the A1, and I know what the firmware upgrades were like --- and until firmware 2.0, the TrueHD tracks were not handled correctly, stop the nonsense about 2.0 lossless, if you have 6 channels and only 2 came out, we lost 4 channels, THAT IS NOT LOSSLESS. Give it a rest, this is very depressing.

I also have the X360 addon and that is also not handling the lossless audio either.

mikemorel

10-17-07, 12:41 PM

Rumors, and discussion thereof...

Please?:o

nakedeye

10-17-07, 12:43 PM

nakedeye, give it a rest. You're wrong.

I have the HD-A1 since launch day and until firmware 2.0, the TrueHD tracks were not handled correctly, stop the nonsense about 2.0 lossless, if you have 6 channels and only 2 came out, THAT IS NOT LOSSLESS. Give it a rest, this is very depressing.

What bit's were being lost?

(crikets chirping....)

All of this is off topic anyway.

mikemorel

10-18-07, 09:11 AM

Checked w/ the mods: Yes - and they reopened the thread. :)

Certainty of truth: Depends on AVS poster.

PC World blog: Price Drop: Sub-$200 HD DVD Player from Toshiba? (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005711.html)

Just a year-and-a-half since they launched, high-definition players are breaching the $200 barrier. If reports on the Web are correct, HD DVD is poised to break the $200 mark before the holidays. Toshiba has told me there's no official pricing moves with regard to their MSRP; however, reports on the Web indicate Wal-Mart may be prepping to sell a $198 HD DVD player.

If so, this is a significant and aggressive move in favor of Toshiba and the HD DVD format: They would be delivering what--up until now--only a no-name manufacturer based in Hong Kong has promised. And even then, Venturer Electronics has yet to release its $199 HD DVD player to market.

Given the need for frequent firmware updates, a player such as the one posited from Venturer gave reason for concern: Would a company like Venturer, which outsources its technical support, be able to stay on top of the updates required as HD DVD discs evolve? Toshiba getting there is a whole other story, though: That's a big gun going out to the masses--complete with established and experienced technical support. Toshiba playing at the sub-$200 level makes the cheap high-def player far more interesting--even if that player is "only" capable of outputting at 1080i resolution (a drawback considering the movie content is presented at 1080p; HDTVs can deinterlace the 1080i input, but that requires you to have a TV that's up to the job).

Reaching $200 is a notable milestone, says Paul Erickson, Director of DVD and HD Market Research at DisplaySearch (a market research arm of NPD Group). "The $200 price point is considered an important financial and psychological barrier to cross for a consumer electronics device to become affordable to mainstream audiences," Erickson says. "This has been borne out in the past with DVD player, game console, and more recently, upscaling DVD player sales figures. And, according to our analysis of NPD retail sales data, consumers have thus far clearly demonstrated to be much more responsive to price, rather than content or features, when purchasing next generation DVD players. As such, getting below $200 and even $150 may actually be even more crucial for next generation formats to generate the mainstream sales numbers to succeed."

The price drop rumor stems from posts at the AVS Forum and the HighDefForum.com, where an astute Wal-Mart employee noticed that there was a new SKU entered for a $198 Toshiba HD DVD player, the HDA2-W.
...Anyone know where this was posted on AVS?

rover2002

10-18-07, 09:24 AM

Grubert

10-18-07, 09:36 AM

Checked w/ the mods: Yes - and they reopened the thread. :)

Certainty of truth: Depends on AVS poster.

PC World blog: Price Drop: Sub-$200 HD DVD Player from Toshiba? (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005711.html)

Anyone know where this was posted on AVS?

The day has come: we're referencing a site that references an AVS thread as source for a rumor. ;)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=922556

Woodshed

10-18-07, 09:37 AM

The day has come: we're referencing a site that references an AVS thread as source for a rumor. ;)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=922556

+1 LOL

Rob.D.inToronto

10-18-07, 09:38 AM

The day has come: we're referencing a site that references an AVS thread as source for a rumor. ;)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=922556

Doesn't that mean that the universe is about the pop out of existence?

Everdog

10-18-07, 10:03 AM

Not a rumor, but I don't know where to post this.

Best Buy ends Analog TV sales.

http://www.reuters.com/article/consumerproducts-SP/idUSN1735317420071018

Thanks, I don't think that belongs here, but it did rescue me from the infinite loop my brain was stuck in from that last rumor that that references an AVS thread that references a site that references an AVS thread as source for a rumor that references a store that... OUCH my brain!!!

mikemorel

10-18-07, 11:09 AM

Sony Execs Hit Like "Stung Mullets" After HD DVD Decision (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/HD/HD_DVD/C6X4A7H5?page=3)

The change of mind by JB Hi Fi has not only stunned Sony but the whole CE industry after Scott Browning the Marketing Director decided earlier this year to only go with Blu ray. At the time he was quoted as saying "Consumers don't give a rat's arse about products. They are more about buying an experience and Blu Ray delivers that" he said.
...
[H]owever Browning who is one of the most experienced CE retail marketing executives in Australia disagrees. He believes that both formats will survive and that content will be the driving factor. He should know as JB Hi Fi is one of the biggest sellers of music and movie content in Australia.

Said Browning" The fact that movie houses like Paramount are behind the HD DVD format along with the like of DreamWorks is key. I believe that more content providers will get behind the format and that the likes of Microsoft who are big supporters of the HD DVD format will bring out an Xbox with a built in HD DVD player. This is a given he said".

"Toshiba is a great Company and next year we look forward to working with them across computing, HD DVD and their LCD TV offerings". He concluded.The wording is not definitive...

But I'm sure the press will run with it.

beatboy77

10-18-07, 11:28 AM

cdzie1

10-18-07, 11:40 AM

rumor: Weinstein Going Dual Format
~Josh

Josh, do you know what their first Blu-ray release will be and will it be released on HD DVD also? They’ve been MIA on HD DVD releases lately.

Timothy Ramzyk

10-18-07, 11:46 AM

rumor: Weinstein Going Dual Format

~Josh

That would be great for everyone if they would actually release some movies.

dkny75

10-18-07, 11:58 AM

That would be great for everyone if they would actually release some movies.

Agreed, I'd just be happy if they released something regardless of the format.

sknight1

10-18-07, 11:58 AM

Josh, do you know what their first Blu-ray release will be and will it be released on HD DVD also? They’ve been MIA on HD DVD releases lately.

IIRC Penton-man hinted that Grindhouse would be the first release on Blu-ray.

nakedeye

10-18-07, 12:00 PM

rumor: Weinstein Going Dual Format

my source is....... Industry Insider

Link

I have [have not] sent additional info to mods: have not, but will

Time frame til confirmation: December 2007

your certainty level of confirmation[scale 1-10] 9.9

Comments: I am told by an Insider that Weinstein will go dual format on December 2007.

~Josh

They never were exclusive to HD DVD. It's just like saying New Line is Exclusive to BD.

Didn't you try to pull this out of your hat a few weeks ago?

What is the good news for HD DVD your trying to trounce now?

mikemorel

10-18-07, 12:15 PM

With regards to post #476 above...

I believe that more content providers will get behind the format and that the likes of Microsoft who are big supporters of the HD DVD format will bring out an Xbox with a built in HD DVD player. This is a given he said".

Back in late July....Digitimes article... (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070730PD201.html)

As Microsoft will lower the retail price of its Xbox 360 external HD DVD-ROM drives from US$199 to US$179 in August and may therefore seek additional OEM makers to reduce the production cost of the drive, Taiwan-based Lite-On IT is likely to secure OEM orders from Microsoft, according to industry sources in Taiwan.

Microsoft's price cut is in response to Sony lowering the price of its PlayStation 3 game console, the sources indicated.

While Toshiba is currently the only OEM maker of Xbox 360 external HD DVD-ROM drives, Microsoft is expected to seek one or two more OEM makers to minimize production costs, the sources noted. Lite-On IT, with strong competitiveness in lowering costs, may become an additional OEM maker, the sources pointed out. Lite-On IT is currently an OEM maker of Xbox 360 internal DVD-ROM drives, the sources said.If MS only produced 200,000 in 7 months (November '06-July-'07), why bother soliciting new manufacturers (other than Toshiba) for an additional $10-$20 off the cost of the [external] drive, unless they are producing them in volume?

Bringing on additional manufacturers to save $2 million is not worth it, given the additional headaches that can result. Switching manufacturers to produce a million drives becomes a worthwhile proposition, however.

Thin? yes...Anorexic? Yes. But if they are going to make HD DVD drives internal, then right after the PS3 price drop seems like the logical time to do it.

Merrick97

10-18-07, 12:15 PM

beatboy77

10-18-07, 12:18 PM

Timothy Ramzyk

10-18-07, 12:30 PM

The Insider told me it would be "Rob Zombie's Halloween." I can not however confirm Weinstein will distribute this film. Does anyone know for sure if Weinstein holds distributions rights to this film?

~Josh
I insider told you they will release a BD of a film they may not own?

I think they do in fact own it, but I can think of a dozen others I'd rather see, it's pretty crummy but it made a fortune so...

I'd love a special-ed of Grindhouse HD DVD, both films with all the trimmings theater audiences got. I refuse to buy these films one at a time when you know dam well a double-feature double-dip theatrical rendition is probably planned.

Do they own Pan's Labyrinth and Sin City?

beatboy77

10-18-07, 12:51 PM

I insider told you they will release a BD of a film they may not own?

I think they do in fact own it, but I can think of a dozen others I'd rather see, it's pretty crummy but it made a fortune so...

I'd love a special-ed of Grindhouse HD DVD, both films with all the trimmings theater audiences got. I refuse to buy these films one at a time when you know dam well a double-feature double-dip theatrical rendition is probably planned.

Do they own Pan's Labyrinth and Sin City?

I was thinking MGM held the distribution right to the new Halloween, that is why I questioned it. It appears that Weinstein may indeed hold the rights to Halloween though.

~Josh