Highdefdigest's take on this:

Warner Mulls Change in High-Def Strategy (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner_Mulls_Change_in_High-Def_Strategy/1123)

Taken together, a "commitment" to Blu-ray and re-evaluation of its dual-format policy would seem to suggest that if the studio did choose one format over the other, it would be Blu-ray, although it wasn't immediately clear whether that was the intent of Silverberg's remarks.

9/21/07 - President of WHV is being interviewed:

TWICE: What is the status of your plans for TotalHD?

Sanders: We’re concerned that as the only one publishing on it, it would be hard to make it go. We’re still looking at, though. We’re still talking to retail, but it’s kind of on hold right now.

TWICE: With plans for THD on hold, what do you think about the new dual-format players on the market?

Sanders: I’m excited about dual-format players. It takes out that worry about picking the wrong format, and with the studios lining up on one or the other format it’s kind of a nice solution, but until the price points come down — they are still around $1,000 — it’s not going to be a mass product. As more and more drives go into computers for both formats, I think that will drive the price down for drives going into set tops.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6477849.html


If we went back and quoted ever Warner interview/article in the last 8 weeks, we could kill every possible scenario. I think we just have to sit back and wait. I'm a dual format owner so I could care less really. Warner titles are the hardest to buy because I never know which one to get...

If we went back and quoted ever Warner interview/article in the last 8 weeks, we could kill every possible scenario. I think we just have to sit back and wait. I'm a dual format owner so I could care less really. Warner titles are the hardest to buy because I never know which one to get...

Please show me an article between 9/22 and yesterday that quotes a high up executive of WHV discussing their position on the format war.

Next paragraph of the article:

Some companies...Warner and New Line?

If that was the case then I don't see why Dan Silverberg was quoted as follows in a Video Business article (http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6495359.html?desc=topstory).

“Some people believe you can plug a DVD player into a high-def TV and that’s the best you can get,” said Dan Silverberg, VP of HD media development for Warner Home Video. The ads, he said, “marry the concept of Blu-ray discs and TV.”

Select studios and electronics manufacturers are “funding this incremental education,” said Silverberg, who was networking at the Blu-ray Festival press event hosted by the Blu-ray Disc Assn., 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment and Panasonic in Los Angeles Monday and Tuesday.

Is it definitive proof? Maybe not but combined with the fact he was there to promote blu-ray to the press and also that those very ads contain both New Line (Wedding Crashers) and Warner (Harry Potter) movies seems to be very strong evidence that there was financial support. Also notice that one of those titles (Wedding Crashers) has never been mentioned for release previous to those TV spots.

In the end we will all find out shortly. :)

Plus it doesn't hurt HD-DVD that all those "impenetrable" security features of BD+ have been cracked:

http://google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.com%2Fde%2FAnyDVD-Slysoft-Kopierschutz-HD%2Cnews-240086.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Highdefdigest's take on this:

Warner Mulls Change in High-Def Strategy (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner_Mulls_Change_in_High-Def_Strategy/1123)Clear as mud. I'd agree. If Warner were going HD DVD exclusive, and I was VP, I'd say anything to get myself out of Dodge in one piece.

I still would like to know where eyecrave quoted October 31st as the date for Warner's BRA green card renewal. That kind of thing is not normally public knowledge.

I think that thread in HD DVD Software was locked...

Can someone clarify who Sanders and Silverberg are and what their positions are at WHV? I'm not sure who Sanders is, but I thought Silverberg is Nickerson's replacement?

Hmmm... ARE there any others who could have opted out? (I'm asking honestly, I have the memory of a fruit fly.)

Well, there's Pioneer, Samsung, and LG for starters.

Can someone clarify who Sanders and Silverberg are and what their positions are at WHV? I'm not sure who Sanders is, but I thought Silverberg is Nickerson's replacement?


Sanders - President of WHV

Silverberg - A VP at WHV

Steve Nickerson was a SVP - his replacement was a woman whose name escapes me.

Take it with a grain of salt, but didn't Paramount shift after awkward clues too?

EDIT: If false we can probably expect a "clarification" shortly.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6471669.html

Nickerson, who joined the studio in 2000 as senior VP of market management and managing director/general manager for Australia and New Zealand operations, will be replaced by Dorinda Marticorena. Nickerson transitioned to WHV senior VP of worldwide high-definition during the last couple of years.

Currently VP of kids and sports marketing, Marticorena has been promoted to the senior VP of high-def post and will move into her role upon Nickerson’s departure. Reporting to Horak, Marticorena will take the reigns in WHV efforts to promote the mainstream adoption of high-def formats.

Which WB rep was it that said recently that 300 was pushed towards the PS3 crowd, but then said it was dangerous to rely on a gaming machine for software sales?

Which WB rep was it that said recently that 300 was pushed towards the PS3 crowd, but then said it was dangerous to rely on a gaming machine for software sales?
http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=3C644C50F0DA47FDA581C56C5FDF5FC7&nm=Hi-Def+News&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=AC6291EF33C14D32889E9C55E986A7B2

Dan Silverberg, VP of high definition media development for Warner Bros., calmed both sides by saying 300 was marketed heavily to PS3 owners, but “it’s dangerous to just rely on gamers. To be reliant on them is something I don’t think either camps wants to do.” Same guy.

I still would like to know where eyecrave quoted October 31st as the date for Warner's BRA green card renewal. That kind of thing is not normally public knowledge.

I think that thread in HD DVD Software was locked...
Do you mean this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929319

So are all of these comments dancing or is this bad news for HD DVD???

So are all of these comments dancing or is this bad news for HD DVD???

:D - your guess/opinion is as good as the next guy's.

Why is no one thinking they will drop support for HDDVD and Blu-ray and start supporting CH-DVD?

Why is no one thinking they will drop support for HDDVD and Blu-ray and start supporting CH-DVD?

Because we're not in China?

Less than 24 hrs for this press release and no one knows at what time this thing is to take place?

Because we're not in China?

YET...They may be thinking ahead.

Do you mean this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929319
If you notice the Warner exec. mentioned is female. He later talks about "her" comments.

Why would Warner have this big shin-dig with Toshiba, and even talk about "I am Legend" coming in January if they were going to drop HD DVD support.

I still say tomorrow is Halloween and a big promotion will be announced....maybe something to do with Harry Potter.

I know what the announcement is! (just kidding)

WHV is going to support HD-VMD!

Didn't Warner say that they were waiting for 4Q results to adjust/shift their strategy?

Do you mean this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929319
Yep.

Jarod M. asked about the date and the response from EyeCrave was:

Wow. Go away for a bit things explode. The Warner Exec with home I spoke did not correct me when I asked if they were letting their Oct 31st contract end with the BDA.

Plus, I never stated they were going to drop anything just that something will be announced - it could be continued support. The only reason I posted this on the HD DVD side is because it was a Toshiba interview and had nothing to do with Blu-ray.

I've tried multiple times to get the info from them and all I get is "I have no comment" from them, but then when this exec added that little tidbit I put in the first post something leads me to believe something is in the works.Was he guessing about that date, as in fishing for a response? Or was it a rumor he heard somewhere?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12032990&postcount=66

If you notice the Warner exec. mentioned is female. He later talks about "her" comments.

Why would Warner have this big shin-dig with Toshiba, and even talk about "I am Legend" coming in January if they were going to drop HD DVD support.

I still say tomorrow is Halloween and a big promotion will be announced....maybe something to do with Harry Potter.

Harry Potter World opening day!

If you notice the Warner exec. mentioned is female. He later talks about "her" comments.

Why would Warner have this big shin-dig with Toshiba, and even talk about "I am Legend" coming in January if they were going to drop HD DVD support.

I still say tomorrow is Halloween and a big promotion will be announced....maybe something to do with Harry Potter.

If you remember Paramount, they had Blu-Ray on Blades of Glory right up to the end.....
Something isn't right here....

it will suck to be an HDDVD fanboy tomorrow

good luck guys

Yeah honestly good luck to both sides. If Warner goes Blu I will wait for full compliant players with reviews. I don't know how long that will be but I will be able to sleep alot more letting this format war go and get back to where I was in late 2005, before I even knew about HD DVD and Blu-ray:o

Perhaps the big announcement is that they will release True HD discs with both Blu and HD-DVD on one disk beginning with Harry Potter? In the meantime, I sure have my fingers crossed for HD-DVD.

I have a feeling this announcement isn't going to be as big as people think.

I mean, if Warner were going Blu exclusive, wouldn't Bill Hunt be all over this with a story from his inside sources? :rolleyes:

Yeah honestly good luck to both sides. If Warner goes Blu I will wait for full compliant players with reviews.

That's the one thing that bugs me. How can any company put their full support behind a format that won't be finished for another year, when all players except the PS3 will be obsolete then? This is too early to be conceding the format war to Blu. Let them get their act together first, both on profiles, and on pricing and standalone penetration. Frankly, it makes most sense for Warner to stay dual until at least Q2 next year. By then, it may be even more clear that HDDVD is the best choice.

WTF! is going on in here?? RELAX everybody, WB is NOT going BD exclusive soon!!

I have to agree with HD DVD supporters in this case!

Does anybody know what time to expect this press release?

YET...They may be thinking ahead.

LOL

I have a feeling this announcement isn't going to be as big as people think.




Is anyone even sure that there is going to be an announcement??? I won't be surprised either way though.

Does anybody know what time to expect this press release?

Probably by noon tomorrow.

WTF! is going on in here?? RELAX everybody, WB is NOT going BD exclusive soon!!

I have to agree with HD DVD supporters in this case!

We know, it's CH-DVD...

Or maybe they are breaking away from AOL-TW???

it will suck to be an HDDVD fanboy tomorrow

good luck guys

Apparently it's nothing more than a press event to announce forthcoming titles.

But one things for sure, BD insiders appear extremely confident WB will continue supporting BD, it's up in the air whether they will continue to support HD-DVD.

it will suck to be an HDDVD fanboy tomorrow

good luck guys

Why is that? Do you really think that HD DVD having everything WB is interested in is trumped by a insignificant numbers of disc sales? What matters is who if anyone is going to eventually win. The WB guy said that "consumers haven't made a choice", and that was the only reason that they decided to do BD to begin with.

Yeah honestly good luck to both sides. If Warner goes Blu I will wait for full compliant players with reviews. I don't know how long that will be but I will be able to sleep alot more letting this format war go and get back to where I was in late 2005, before I even knew about HD DVD and Blu-ray:o


Ditto

BD+ already cracked?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30/slysoft-claims-to-have-cracked-bd-naysayers-fall-quiet/

Perhaps the big announcement is that they will release True HD discs with both Blu and HD-DVD on one disk beginning with Harry Potter? In the meantime, I sure have my fingers crossed for HD-DVD.

they've dropped those remember?

and they were called Total Hi Def (THD)

Warner would be dumb to sign with BD before seeing the #'s of the 4th Q. HD-DVD will sell a ton of players this holiday season, and the prices will only keep going down. You will not see a stand alone BD player this season for anywhere close to what HD-DVD is at.

Here's why I think it can be (but doesn't have to be) to announce HD DVD exclusivity, and logically can't be (but could be) to announce BRD exclusivity:

Wal-Mart. Purveyor of 40% of the DVDs sold in the U.S. and home to the $198 Toshiba HD DVD player.

Does anyone think WB didn't sit down and talk to Wally World about all this? Toshiba probably had to get Warner to guarantee HD DVD software for this to happen.

Warner does a tremendous amount of business with Wal-Mart, but Wal-mart is the only retailer that can dictate terms to the studios on DVD pricing and delivery.

Usually its the other way around.

I would find it remarkable that Wal-Mart would sell the HD A2 on end caps, without having an agreement with Warner in place.

Contrary to some blu fans comments , the HD A2s are not being sold as a discontinued close out sale, they are being carried as an inventory item, with order replenishment.

Several trade articles just mentioned how well they are selling at Wal-Mart and Amazon and Circuit City.

Just a coincidence but CC stock closed yesterday up 5% and some analysts said it was of increased and anticipated HD DVD sales below the $200 barrier. I kid you not. :eek: Thats a stretch obviously, but its creeping into mainstream press.

Or a Blu-ray or HD-DVD supporter comes out of the audience and wacks him.:D



Wearing a Members Only jacket, of course. :D

Wearing a Members Only jacket, of course. :D

Beige, Powder Blue or Black?

Toshiba probably had to get Warner to guarantee HD DVD software for this to happen.

Warner does a tremendous amount of business with Wal-Mart, but Wal-mart is the only retailer that can dictate terms to the studios on DVD pricing and delivery.

Usually its the other way around.

I would find it remarkable that Wal-Mart would sell the HD A2 on end caps, without having an agreement with Warner in place.

Contrary to some blu fans comments , the HD A2s are not being sold as a discontinued close out sale, they are being carried as an inventory item, with order replenishment.

Several trade articles just mentioned how well they are selling at Wal-Mart and Amazon and Circuit City.

Just a coincidence but CC stock closed yesterday up 5% and some analysts said it was of increased and anticipated HD DVD sales below the $200 barrier. I kid you not. :eek: Thats a stretch obviously, but its creeping into mainstream press.

Is it correct Toshiba have supplied 50,000 A2's to Wal-Mart, and 20,000 A3's for Black Friday.

Is it also true that Microsoft are withdrawing support, beyond the add-on and codecs, from HD-DVD.

Wearing a Members Only jacket, of course. :D

LOL!! :D

Honestly, I do not believe that Warner will make a decision on the war this soon, especially since they have in the past said they wanted to see how Q4 turns out. A decision this soon would make no sense, unless a heck of a lot of money was given to Warner by one side or the other. Otherwise, what would it hurt for Warner to see what happens over the next couple of months. The new HD-DVD players and their dropping prices could change things, so I don't believe that Warner would interrupt the war this soon. I think, as they have told us before, that they will wait to see how things play out.

Is it also true that Microsoft are withdrawing support, beyond the add-on and codecs, from HD-DVD.

? That's been their support so far, so how is that different?

Toshiba probably had to get Warner to guarantee HD DVD software for this to happen.

Warner does a tremendous amount of business with Wal-Mart, but Wal-mart is the only retailer that can dictate terms to the studios on DVD pricing and delivery.

Usually its the other way around.

I would find it remarkable that Wal-Mart would sell the HD A2 on end caps, without having an agreement with Warner in place.

Contrary to some blu fans comments , the HD A2s are not being sold as a discontinued close out sale, they are being carried as an inventory item, with order replenishment.

Several trade articles just mentioned how well they are selling at Wal-Mart and Amazon and Circuit City.

Just a coincidence but CC stock closed yesterday up 5% and some analysts said it was of increased and anticipated HD DVD sales below the $200 barrier. I kid you not. :eek: Thats a stretch obviously, but its creeping into mainstream press.

your posts read more like you hope something will happen than you know something will happen

maybe you should tone it down a bit if you want some cred around here

Warner would be dumb to sign with BD before seeing the #'s of the 4th Q. HD-DVD will sell a ton of players this holiday season, and the prices will only keep going down. You will not see a stand alone BD player this season for anywhere close to what HD-DVD is at.
Or prices are going down because they're losing support? Maybe Blu-ray player prices remain high because they know they're gaining support?

Nearly everything in this format war can be viewed both ways with logical reasoning. Only thing left to do is sit back with a tub of popcorn. :p

Warner would be dumb to sign with BD before seeing the #'s of the 4th Q. HD-DVD will sell a ton of players this holiday season, and the prices will only keep going down. You will not see a stand alone BD player this season for anywhere close to what HD-DVD is at.

You think consumers have anything to do with this? Certainly can't pay attention to PR statements and releases.

Highest bidder.

Honestly, I do not believe that Warner will make a decision on the war this soon, especially since they have in the past said they wanted to see how Q4 turns out. A decision this soon would make no sense, unless a heck of a lot of money was given to Warner by one side or the other. Otherwise, what would it hurt for Warner to see what happens over the next couple of months. The new HD-DVD players and their dropping prices could change things, so I don't believe that Warner would interrupt the war this soon. I think, as they have told us before, that they will wait to see how things play out.


Yep. Warner wants to sell movies, period. Pick the business plan that sells the most movies this quarter, and that's what they are going to do.

? That's been their support so far, so how is that different?

Financial, i.e. wooing WB may no longer be possible if Toshiba are out on their own.

You have to have players to sell movies, so it comes down to how many players are out there.

It is highly likely that Warner will hold off on making a decision but WILL drop one format by CES 2008.

Someone else made a very good point though. Warner might feel that they need to drive sales in one direction or the other for the holiday season, so that fewer buyers pick the "wrong" format (at least from their perspective) and waste their money.

I don't think that Warner's ultimate decision is going to be based on current sales or on incentives. I think that they are looking at the long term and I'm not sure if they like the looks of the continued failure of BD to get their newer profile players out OR to get player prices into the same $169 range that HD DVD will hit this holiday season. If Warner is sure that they will side with one format now, it might make sense for them to try an spur sales of that formats players now during the high volume holiday season.

50% of all DVD hardware and software sales occur in the last 4 months of the year.

Toshiba just said HD DVD players sales spiked with Transformers release and last NPD numbers , probably Sep OEM numbers put HD DVD set top market share up 7% to 60%.

So in Sep, the numbers were probably 60% HD 37% BD 3% Dual.

Sep numbers were about 40% 60% Blu-ray over HD DVD in Software.

Paramount thought that hardware is better long term than software.

The numbers are even better now for Warner to consider, now we have also HD DVD players below the consumer inflection point of $199 with brisk early sales reported at Amazon Circuit City and Wal-Mart.

Doesn't make a lot of sense for Warner to drop HD DVD now, before at least seeing how this plays out during rest of 4Q.

It may make sense for Warner to drop Blu-ray now, if they don't see any profile 1,1 players, Blu-ray hardware being still higher in cost with low volumes, $399 PS3 cannibalizing/complicating BD set top sales. Low margin on BOGO sales being needed to counter the Transformers numbers, Transformers sales showing HD DVD has some potential, and all the other Paramount supported reasons.

Plus the Xbox 360 and Halo , and the Wii is just whacking the PS3, developer support for the PS3 is shaky and the new PS3 SKUs go backward in performance by taking out PS2 backward games.

PS3 sales last couple months have been dismal and most Blu-ray sales have been PS3 driven.

Originally Warner and Paramount were HD DVD and were enticed to give Blu-ray time to show its stuff.

Hard to logically say that now would be the time to pick Blu-ray over HD DVD before the end of the 4Q, as it would be hard to defend that decision to shareholders if HD DVD hardware sales accelerate with the sub $199 players.

Recent events might give some cover to justify a Paramount type pro HD DVD decision, and it might just not be coincidental that the 31st is the BD profile 1.1 deadline expiration.

Toshiba probably had to get Warner to guarantee HD DVD software for this to happen.

Warner does a tremendous amount of business with Wal-Mart, but Wal-mart is the only retailer that can dictate terms to the studios on DVD pricing and delivery.

Usually its the other way around.

I would find it remarkable that Wal-Mart would sell the HD A2 on end caps, without having an agreement with Warner in place.

Contrary to some blu fans comments , the HD A2s are not being sold as a discontinued close out sale, they are being carried as an inventory item, with order replenishment.

Several trade articles just mentioned how well they are selling at Wal-Mart and Amazon and Circuit City.

Just a coincidence but CC stock closed yesterday up 5% and some analysts said it was of increased and anticipated HD DVD sales below the $200 barrier. I kid you not. :eek: Thats a stretch obviously, but its creeping into mainstream press.

I brought this up before. I would be very surprised if Wal-Mart didn't do some research before buying al those A2s and putting them on end-caps. I am sure their thinking is that if they sell cheap players it will lead to more SW sales.

Thread can probably be locked until Warner talking heads have their 5 minutes tomorrow.

they need a PR for that?

If im not mistaken any time a studio needs to reitierate their current stance they do so quickly, quietly.....not a full blown PR...on the day their contract is set to renew, a day after a BD event where the VP of HD makes VERY positive BD comments trumpeting the sales and announcing the evaluation of current stances. His comments might have been interpreted as more dramatic than they were.

Overall, if thats the most enthusiastic he could be for Blu-ray, he was pretty self controlled.

He had to attend, his absence by itself would have been a signal.

Nothing he said could not be subject to change, and he did say they were still evaluating their position.

You have to have players to sell movies, so it comes down to how many players are out there.

Exactly. Here's a thought - Walmart has the final A2 price rollback before Christmas timed with the release of HP5. Get Harry Potter in HD and pick up an HD player for $169. Walmart probably makes more money on the movie, anyway.

On the other hand, buy BD's entry level player (PS3) and what's the consumer going to buy - a movie or a game?

Warner will stay where it is and make the most money of any HDM producer this season.

His comments might have been interpreted as more dramatic thant they were.

He had to attend, his absence by itself would have been a signal.

Nothing he said could not be subject to change, and he did say they were still evaluating their position.


If Warner was planning on dropping BD I highly doubt they would be showing up at BD events and saying positive things about BD sales numbers.

Yep. Warner wants to sell movies, period. Pick the business plan that sells the most movies this quarter, and that's what they are going to do.

I wouldn't say this is exactly correct. Warner Brothers wants to maximize their profits. They will choose the business plan in order to do so regardless of format. Just because one format has larger volume or greater top-line revenue doesn't imply it will render greater profits or wider margins. Not to mention I can assure you that the folks are looking at both technologies for the on-going and perpetual margins on each product offering. If you assume that (if) when the format war is over, you have a ubiquitous commodity, which will yield the largest benefit? Who knows. I just know they'll pick on dollars, not on volumes.

Financial, i.e. wooing WB may no longer be possible if Toshiba are out on their own.


Depends on the incentives. Toshiba having patents in HD-DVD technology can take them far.

There's no real proof Microsoft actually had anything to do with any previous incentive deals.

better software sales on blu-ray
$199 hd dvd players vs $399 ps3 and maybe the rumoured $299 blu-ray player

if they were do make a stand today it would seem blu-ray is the way to go. either that or wait until after christmas and keep supporting both in the meantime

but then again, a large enough moneyhat would make every argument moot so whatever

BD+ already cracked?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/30/slysoft-claims-to-have-cracked-bd-naysayers-fall-quiet/


It's nice to see a real rumor here. Once this Warner thing blows over, maybe people will notice it.

better software sales on blu-ray
$199 hd dvd players vs $399 ps3 and maybe the rumoured $299 blu-ray player

if they were do make a stand today it would seem blu-ray is the way to go. either that or wait until after christmas and keep supporting both in the meantime

but then again, a large enough moneyhat would make every argument moot so whatever

Sears already has the HDA3 in their leaked black friday circular for $169.

It's far more likely to be $149-$169 HD DVD players against $299 Profile 1.0 BD players.

Thought I read WB had some kind of HD DVD technology patten share, wouldn't they be shooting them self in the foot in they drop HD ?



DJoel

$199 hd dvd players vs $399 ps3 and maybe the rumoured $299 blu-ray player


Hmmm, 40,000 $198 players in the stores selling as we speak vs. a rumoured $299 player that is nowhere yet.

Wal-mart, Amazon, Circuit City, etc. all selling sub $200 players that some people can finally afford and that are available at a store near them.

better software sales on blu-ray
$199 hd dvd players vs $399 ps3 and maybe the rumoured $299 blu-ray playerWell, I can buy a $197 HDDVD player in the next 5 seconds. Can't quite get the 40GB crippled version of PS3 yet, nor can I ever get it with a remote that I can integrate. But never mind that.

If we're dealing with long-standing rumors, like the mythical $299 BD player, why not the $99 HD player. I mean, if we're just making stuff up....

I've got good news for you! There is one format coming it's called Blu-ray disc. Sony got it right this time, since they are a content provider and have other content providers strongly backing them. People are starting to see the writing on the wall.

I commend the HD-DVD supporters as true early adopters of HDM when Blu-ray was not available. But, at some point, studios must pick one format and with the sales lead, more content, better technical specs., etc. That most likely will be Blu-ray. We'll make room on the bandwagon. Welcome aboard!

Hear hear!

It's never to late. A unified format would end all this sorrow once and for all. I cannot understand why there are so many fanboys on both sides and no one working for a unified HD format. I would easily buy a third player if they could just lay down their posturing and commit to the customer for once!!!

It's nice to see a real rumor here. Once this Warner thing blows over, maybe people will notice it.

"Real rumor" eh? I must have missed a definition of rumor. The Warner buzz should be taken with a large grain of salt, but it is based on real statements by a relevant authority. This isn't something started by SirHowardStringer555@Sony.com on a Blu Ray site.

Besides, if the information is wrong it will come to light soon enough. Otherwise, sorry that an HD DVD favorable rumor is being overshadowed by a Blu Ray favorable one.

His comments might have been interpreted as more dramatic than they were.


I found it interesting that he said both players are now "affordable".

Do they look at the economic forecast for the USA? Currently consumer confidence is not high and expectations for the holiday are being downgraded.

Are $400+ dvd players affordable in that climate?

I wonder where they got that date (10/31/07) from? I thought someone scooped it off blu-raydisc.com.

That might be a guess.

Bluray.com started the thread over a months ago.

it would be funny if WB announces that they are withdrawing from the HDM market because the consumer has chosen to stay with DVD.

OR they are planning to drop both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and will be the first exclusive HD-VMD studio. :)

your posts read more like you hope something will happen than you know something will happen

maybe you should tone it down a bit if you want some cred around here
Gee , I don't even need to read your post history to see what side you are invested in.....:D
Originally Posted by Kosty
Toshiba probably had to get Warner to guarantee HD DVD software for this to happen.

Warner does a tremendous amount of business with Wal-Mart, but Wal-mart is the only retailer that can dictate terms to the studios on DVD pricing and delivery.

Usually its the other way around.

I would find it remarkable that Wal-Mart would sell the HD A2 on end caps, without having an agreement with Warner in place.

Contrary to some blu fans comments , the HD A2s are not being sold as a discontinued close out sale, they are being carried as an inventory item, with order replenishment.

Several trade articles just mentioned how well they are selling at Wal-Mart and Amazon and Circuit City.

Just a coincidence but CC stock closed yesterday up 5% and some analysts said it was of increased and anticipated HD DVD sales below the $200 barrier. I kid you not. Thats a stretch obviously, but its creeping into mainstream press. Just trying out some logical thoughts on for size.

But you are right, I do not know what is going to happen, or if I did I could not openly say what it is.

Thanks for worrying about my credibility. :rolleyes:

Here another thought.

Warner is supplying the 300 HD DVD inserts for all the 3rd generation HD DVD players.

Warner had to make that agreement months ago to Toshiba about the time Toshiba was negotiating with Wal-Mart for the agreement to carry the HD A2 and the terms and the required delivery schedule and guaranteed required quantities.

Warner talks to Wal-Mart all the time and would have know of the Wal-Mart deal at the same time as its support would be a critical item in Wal-Mart agreeing to carry the Toshiba players.

Wal-Mart would also be wanting a lot of Warner discs to support the HD A2 at $199.

Rock Solid Proof Warner is Going Blu!!

I found this press release on Warner's site today - was just posted yesterday. Head for the hills, HD DVD supporters!

Press Release: Warner Releases "The Smurfs" Season 1 on DVD (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Smurfs-Season-1-Volume-1-Press-Release/8358)

Oh my gosh it's for certain now! I'd better sell my HD-A2 while it's still worth something :eek:

:cool::cool:;);):D:D

Just Mulling areound in my head, but perhaps some sort of HD DVD announcment in wall mart? Perhaps exclusive HD DVD in wall mart?

Is it correct Toshiba have supplied 50,000 A2's to Wal-Mart, and 20,000 A3's for Black Friday.

Is it also true that Microsoft are withdrawing support, beyond the add-on and codecs, from HD-DVD. Do you have a source for that?

Seems like a back of the envelope calculation, based on the number of Wal-Mart stores and a couple pallets of hardware.

I'm hearing that the quantities are not limited to anywhere near that low amount and in fact that besides a large minimum required quantity with a required delivery date, there is no end or limit to the supply relationship.

Have a link or anything you can share on that?

.

Here another thought.

Warner is supplying the 300 HD DVD inserts for all the 3rd generation HD DVD players.

Warner had to make that agreement months ago to Toshiba about the time Toshiba was negotiating with Wal-Mart for the agreement to carry the HD A2 and the terms and the required delivery schedule and guaranteed required quantities.

Warner talks to Wal-Mart all the time and would have know of the Wal-Mart deal at the same time as its support would be a critical item in Wal-Mart agreeing to carry the Toshiba players.

Wal-Mart would also be wanting a lot of Warner discs to support the HD A2 at $199.

Sears is offering the A3 with the copy of 300 inside for $169 on BF. It will also be available online. How thousands of those had to be pre-order from Warner/Toshiba?

Seriously, why would Warner ruin all of the planned sales for the Holiday season with an annoucement now? They rely on those stores to sell their products. It makes no sense. This goes both ways too. I doubt they would go exclusive either way until January...like they said before...unless an unsightly amount of cash was invloved.

If Warner was planning on dropping BD I highly doubt they would be showing up at BD events and saying positive things about BD sales numbers.

That's what i was thinking

Sears is offering the A3 with the copy of 300 inside for $169 on BF. It will also be available online. How thousands of those had to be pre-order from Warner/Toshiba?

Seriously, why would Warner ruin all of the planned sales for the Holiday season with an annoucement now? They rely on those stores to sell their products. It makes no sense. This goes both ways too. I doubt they would go exclusive either way until January...like they said before...unless an unsightly amount of cash was invloved.

There are two movies packed in the A3 - 300 and the Bourne Identity.

Sears is offering the A3 with the copy of 300 inside for $169 on BF. It will also be available online. How thousands of those had to be pre-order from Warner/Toshiba?

Seriously, why would Warner ruin all of the planned sales for the Holiday season with an annoucement now? They rely on those stores to sell their products. It makes no sense. This goes both ways too. I doubt they would go exclusive either way until January...like they said before...unless an unsightly amount of cash was invloved.

AGREED!

Warner is fully aware of the prices going on through the holidays.
Including the $400 PS3 and the Sub-$200 HD DVD player.
They will be watching their sales throughout the holiday.

Now, I wonder which format gets a lift in movie sales this holiday?
- Buy a $400 game system and pick up a game to go with it. CHECK
- Buy a < $200 HD DVD player and pick up a movie or two or three to go with it. CHECK

Anyway, no announcement/ decision happening tomorrow or the next day or the next day.

Hmmm, 40,000 $198 players in the stores selling as we speak vs. a rumoured $299 player that is nowhere yet.

Wal-mart, Amazon, Circuit City, etc. all selling sub $200 players that some people can finally afford and that are available at a store near them.

But remember one reason why they were cheaper in the first place was lack of studio support. BD knew they had better support and educated consumers who looked beyond just price knew that.

If Warner goes red then the only major studios supporting it are still Warner, Paramount and Universal. It would do some damage and even things out content wise in the war, but it won't do anything to quickly end the war.

The breakdown would be for the seven major studios:
BD - Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM
HD DVD - Universal, Warner, Paramount

If Warner truly wants to make a statement and try to end this war quickly it makes more sense for them to abandon HD DVD leaving only Universal and Paramount supporting HD DVD.

Again if WB goes red it just will continue to prolong the war and eventually both could fail due to consumer confusion.

WB knows they sell more titles on BD and the 300 BD is potentially still the HDM sales leader if Paramount did fudge their numbers (ie. make inaccurate assumptions).

If WB goes Blu then, the war will be over by the Q2 of next year. If they go red then this thing drags on indefinitely.

They're gonna' keep us guessing if they can, won't they.

If Warner was planning on dropping BD I highly doubt they would be showing up at BD events and saying positive things about BD sales numbers.
Not necessarily.

Those comments were pretty factual and not hyper projective in nature.

But I agree that it would be a shock if Warner did announce it was going exclusive tomorrow.

There is no way possible that the Toshiba would carry a Warner title 2 months before the holiday season in every player and have Warner go bluray exclusive. As well Warner helped develop hddvd and holds many of the patents of which they hold none on bluray so yes they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

So let me once again question this issue of WB exclusively supporting BD . . . which does not have . . .

1. Fully functioning players - IME and IF

2. A truly affordable player.

3. Has no bridge format(s) like DL/TL Twin and Combo.

4. Cheap and plentiful manufacturing

So are the BD fans forgetting all these points?

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."

If Warner was planning on dropping BD I highly doubt they would be showing up at BD events and saying positive things about BD sales numbers.

They did the same thing last week for HD DVD...watch the video...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929319

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."

But the movies are not!:p

Including WB's!:D

But the movies are not!:p

Including WB's!:D

You just complained of the lack of a 'truly affordable player.'

The 'nicer, gentler Lee' should not try to move the goalposts. ;)

I've got good news for you! There is one format coming it's called Blu-ray disc. Sony got it right this time, since they are a content provider and have other content providers strongly backing them. People are starting to see the writing on the wall.

I commend the HD-DVD supporters as true early adopters of HDM when Blu-ray was not available. But, at some point, studios must pick one format and with the sales lead, more content, better technical specs., etc. That most likely will be Blu-ray. We'll make room on the bandwagon. Welcome aboard!I love these random posts that just float in out of blu-ray.com. They have nothing to do with anything, yet offer a simple message. Kind of like a commercial break from discussion. :) "This discussion has been brought to you by: blu-ray.com. Next time you are in the market for HDM, call blu-ray.com". :D

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."

Sometimes one "affordable" is more "affordable" than another. :cool:

I've got good news for you! There is one format coming it's called Blu-ray disc. Sony got it right this time, since they are a content provider and have other content providers strongly backing them. People are starting to see the writing on the wall.

I commend the HD-DVD supporters as true early adopters of HDM when Blu-ray was not available. But, at some point, studios must pick one format and with the sales lead, more content, better technical specs., etc. That most likely will be Blu-ray. We'll make room on the bandwagon. Welcome aboard!

Nice post..... please refrain overdosing on the kool-aid before typing :)

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."


He needs to stop by a Wal-Mart store and see the large stack of $198 HD DVD players and the one or two $429 Sony S300 Blu-Ray players.
I have yeat to read any news stories where an analyst says $399 is the price that will get the average person excited about buying an HDM player.

I hope HD DVD does win because i feel they would have earned it. Without the FUD lies and withholding info from buyers.

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."

So where can i buy a 1.1, 2.0 Blu-ray player for 198$? :)

You just complained of the lack of a 'truly affordable player.'

The 'nicer, gentler Lee' should not try to move the goalposts. ;)

I am not moving anything. The lowest priced BD player is $449 while the lowest HD player is $198.

Do YOU consider $449 affordable? If so - why hasn't BD taken the lead for SAL players?

A fact is just a fact - nothing more.

This was the reply to someone who begged for one format. Sony has no reason to share with Toshiba, so a compromise is not going to happen. Consumer electronics companies have no reason to not make any money on cutting edge technology. Notice Toshiba is the only company offering ultra-low priced HDM players that no doubt are heavily subsidized.

Hopefully, consumers realize that not having the content they want such as Sony, Disney and Fox movies means those players are not worth $199 or $169 or whatever price.

I love these random posts that just float in out of blu-ray.com. They have nothing to do with anything, yet offer a simple message. Kind of like a commercial break from discussion. :) "This discussion has been brought to you by: blu-ray.com. Next time you are in the market for HDM, call blu-ray.com". :D

Bold.

But remember one reason why they were cheaper in the first place was lack of studio support. BD knew they had better support and educated consumers who looked beyond just price knew that.


So let me get this straight.......they had more studios supporting them so they could lie to consumers about their superiority, then sell them a crippled player at an inflated price........makes good business sense to me.... :rolleyes:

So let me once again question this issue of WB exclusively supporting BD . . . which does not have . . .

1. Fully functioning players - IME and IF

2. A truly affordable player.

3. Has no bridge format(s) like DL/TL Twin and Combo.

4. Cheap and plentiful manufacturing

So are the BD fans forgetting all these points?

Maybe, just maybe some of your points arent as important Warner as you would like them to be?

(hint #3 and #4)

And maybe, just maybe the BDA plans a $299 player by years end?

Or maybe $399 IS affordable?

I for 1 am guilty of paying $490 for a VCR 15 years ago that is still hooked up. :)

So let me once again question this issue of WB exclusively supporting BD . . . which does not have . . .

1. Fully functioning players - IME and IF

2. A truly affordable player.

3. Has no bridge format(s) like DL/TL Twin and Combo.

4. Cheap and plentiful manufacturing

So are the BD fans forgetting all these points?

Nyet m'boyo, but it's hard to take them seriously when they have yet to prove their worth. Point 1 & 3 has no effect or 300 would have been an HD DVD victory. Do you really want to claim the costly "combo" disc as a benefit?

Point 2 is a theory, but HD DVD has always been cheaper and until I see a mad rush at my local stores I'll rest easy. Point four .... eh, I have no knowledge of the costs, but somehow I doubt the BDA has money enough to subsidize everyone if the cost difference is substantial.

I think it really boils down to the fact that HD DVD isn't crushing Blu Ray in any sales facet you care to name. So it is difficult to look on those assertions as facts.

Hopefully, consumers realize that not having the content they want such as Sony, Disney and Fox movies means those players are not worth $199 or $169 or whatever price.

Which also applies to Blu-ray, and in that case it's $429 and no Paramount or Universal.

Silverberg has said that now "hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD."

I'll have what he's drinking.

Rumor -

Fox VP states PIP/Profile 1.1 is coming to a PS3 near you.


Most Blu-ray players currently do not have the capacity to display PIP, but Fox senior vice president Steve Feldstein told the publication that future models will. He added that Sony will upgrade the Play Station 3 with a PIP feature via a firmware download.

“There will be players in the market,” Feldstein said.

Disney is expected to offer PIP in several titles next year, including Finding Nemo.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blupicture103007.htm

This was the reply to someone who begged for one format. Sony has no reason to share with Toshiba, so a compromise is not going to happen. Consumer electronics companies have no reason to not make any money on cutting edge technology. Notice Toshiba is the only company offering ultra-low priced HDM players that no doubt are heavily subsidized.

Hopefully, consumers realize that not having the content they want such as Sony, Disney and Fox movies means those players are not worth $199 or $169 or whatever price.

We continue to see this claim of subsidization of Toshiba player prices, but little to back such claims up.

Additionally the Venturer player will be on shelves soon and will in all likelihood settle into the same price range or lower than the "subsidized" Toshiba players.

There's no question that Sony has more CE support. Sony has more CE support because they agreed to "keep China out of it" for the first several waves of BD players, helping slow down the price reduction spiral and helping CE companies maximize profits. The problem is in the adoption rate. It's been bad for HD DVD standaloens but far worse for BD players which have sold very slowly to date. Profile issues, etc, are not making things any better.

Additionally BD was supposed to K.O. HD DVD in the first year that both formats were on the market, and it's obvious after Transformers sells nearly 200K copies in a week that this has not happened.

I do believe that Toshiba started out negotiations with Sony and the BDA in a position of weakness, with their hat in their hand so to speak. It would have been relatively easy for BD to add HD DVD to their playback specification, which also would have given an out to studios who wanted to continue pressing on legacy DVD lines.

Sony wouldn't hear any of it though, and now we have this war going into the 2nd holiday selling season with no resolution in sight, AND with HD DVD in a good position to continue to make sales.

Assuming that Warner stays neutral of course.

But remember one reason why they were cheaper in the first place was lack of studio support. BD knew they had better support and educated consumers who looked beyond just price knew that.

If Warner goes red then the only major studios supporting it are still Warner, Paramount and Universal. It would do some damage and even things out content wise in the war, but it won't do anything to quickly end the war.

The breakdown would be for the seven major studios:
BD - Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM
HD DVD - Universal, Warner, Paramount

If Warner truly wants to make a statement and try to end this war quickly it makes more sense for them to abandon HD DVD leaving only Universal and Paramount supporting HD DVD.

Again if WB goes red it just will continue to prolong the war and eventually both could fail due to consumer confusion.

WB knows they sell more titles on BD and the 300 BD is potentially still the HDM sales leader if Paramount did fudge their numbers (ie. make inaccurate assumptions).

If WB goes Blu then, the war will be over by the Q2 of next year. If they go red then this thing drags on indefinitely.

I don't agree at all with your analysis. If Warner dropped Blu-Ray, it would be as much a death blow to BD as it would be to HD DVD. Probably even more so, as HD DVD holds the lead in player sales and is the format poised to take off from a price standpoint.

Blu-Ray already became the only format to LOSE major studio support this year with the Paramount move. If Warner dropped off as well, they would be all done! The BD exclusives like Fox and Disney would be clinging to a sinking ship if thet ever happened, and Blu-Ray would be all done as certainly as HD DVD would be. They would be forced to switch to HD DVD, as Blu-Ray would lose every reason to exist as a format. To think that Blu-Ray is the only format that has the potential to succeed is narrow-minded. HD DVD players are now under $200 moving into the critical holiday period, with an A3 sale at $169 in 3 weeks! Where is the Blu-Ray equivalent to these prices? BD fanboys will never understand that this format war will NOT be decided by a videogame.

I'm not claiming Warner will drop either format in 2007 or 2008 for that matter...but if they ever did drop a format & it turns out to be Blu-Ray, they would be history!

Rumor -

Fox VP states PIP/Profile 1.1 is coming to a PS3 near you.

Quote:
Most Blu-ray players currently do not have the capacity to display PIP, but Fox senior vice president Steve Feldstein told the publication that future models will. He added that Sony will upgrade the Play Station 3 with a PIP feature via a firmware download.

“There will be players in the market,” Feldstein said.

Disney is expected to offer PIP in several titles next year, including Finding Nemo.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/blupicture103007.htm

That's great, but what about this $600 dollars I spend on a BR player that's not a PS3..........

Seems like a bit of a slap in the face.

Also, not every PS3 owner is interested in owning any movies on BR.......I don't get why people don't understand that.

Maybe, just maybe some of your points arent as important Warner as you would like them to be?

(hint #3 and #4)

#3 - allows the ability to sell to owners of 135 million DVD players versus the pool of BD owners - a few million. Bridge formats are only exclusive to HD DVD.

#4 - manufacturing HD DVD's we have learned is less expensive. With the movie price being the same - this puts more $ in WB's pockets . . and this isn't important?

And maybe, just maybe the BDA plans a $299 player by years end?

So you want to speculate? OK- WHICH player will be MSRP'd at $299?

Or maybe $399 IS affordable?

Well the Wii seems to have disproved that.

I for 1 am guilty of paying $490 for a VCR 15 years ago that is still hooked up. :)

What you are willing to pay and what 500,000 other people are willing to pay is two different things. But all studies say that $199 is the magic price point for CE products - to get out of the EA market and into the middle market which is much larger than the EA market.

When a CE product hits $99 then it is considered a mass market product and the pool of buyers jumps by 100X

So let me once again question this issue of WB exclusively supporting BD . . . which does not have . . .

1. Fully functioning players - IME and IF

2. A truly affordable player.

3. Has no bridge format(s) like DL/TL Twin and Combo.

4. Cheap and plentiful manufacturing

So are the BD fans forgetting all these points?


All these cons and blu-ray is still selling 2 to 1 , so what happens when these things change like affordable players.

I've got good news for you! There is one format coming it's called Blu-ray disc. Sony got it right this time, since they are a content provider and have other content providers strongly backing them. People are starting to see the writing on the wall.

I commend the HD-DVD supporters as true early adopters of HDM when Blu-ray was not available. But, at some point, studios must pick one format and with the sales lead, more content, better technical specs., etc. That most likely will be Blu-ray. We'll make room on the bandwagon. Welcome aboard!

You may have missed it, but Blu-Ray was the only format to lose support of a major studio since the formats launched. It's just a little studio known as Paramount Pictures. Perhaps you've heard of them? They must have missed that "writing on the wall".

If Warner does go HD DVD exclusive then IMO Paramount, Universal, Warner > Sony, Disney and Fox.

It would probably be a slow death blow.

Hopefully, consumers realize that not having the content they want such as Sony, Disney and Fox movies means those players are not worth $199 or $169 or whatever price.

I still don't understand this rationale.

But customers shouldn't realize that not having they content they want such as Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal movies means those players ARE worth double? Or $449-$1000?

Nyet m'boyo, but it's hard to take them seriously when they have yet to prove their worth. Point 1 & 3 has no effect or 300 would have been an HD DVD victory. Do you really want to claim the costly "combo" disc as a benefit?

WB wants IME and IF - they have already said this clearly. They feel they can make money doing it and already have with 300. BD cannot do Web Enable.

Again - IMO - Combo's to date have been a manufacturing and marketing experiment. Just like the DL Twin. The idea is to release one package with both formats on it - DVD and HD DVD. Saves the studios money - saves the retailers shelf space. - a single release - like Star Trek TOS box set. The TL Twin is coming - we know that.

Point 2 is a theory, but HD DVD has always been cheaper and until I see a mad rush at my local stores I'll rest easy. Point four .... eh, I have no knowledge of the costs, but somehow I doubt the BDA has money enough to subsidize everyone if the cost difference is substantial.

A theory? Have you read any of the studies done by the CEA or the NPD Group? This was the success point of DVD - when the players streeted for $199 - sales shot though the roof.

I think it really boils down to the fact that HD DVD isn't crushing Blu Ray in any sales facet you care to name. So it is difficult to look on those assertions as facts.

WB knows why BD is leading in movie sales - the PS3 and they want to see SAL players be the success for HDM - not a game console - they have said this MANY times.

Originally Posted by CraigW
But remember one reason why they were cheaper in the first place was lack of studio support. BD knew they had better support and educated consumers who looked beyond just price knew that.

If Warner goes red then the only major studios supporting it are still Warner, Paramount and Universal. It would do some damage and even things out content wise in the war, but it won't do anything to quickly end the war.

The breakdown would be for the seven major studios:
BD - Sony, Fox, Disney, MGM
HD DVD - Universal, Warner, Paramount

If Warner truly wants to make a statement and try to end this war quickly it makes more sense for them to abandon HD DVD leaving only Universal and Paramount supporting HD DVD.

Again if WB goes red it just will continue to prolong the war and eventually both could fail due to consumer confusion.

WB knows they sell more titles on BD and the 300 BD is potentially still the HDM sales leader if Paramount did fudge their numbers (ie. make inaccurate assumptions).

If WB goes Blu then, the war will be over by the Q2 of next year. If they go red then this thing drags on indefinitely.

Exactly right. Only don't agree with is setting a specific time of the war being over. I certainly wouldn't be optimistic for HD DVD that is for sure. It certainly would be interesting to see how Toshiba and MS would react.

The 1.1 player from Panasonic has been announced with an MSRP of $500. If you think this player is priced too high, I have to wonder if you think the A35's are priced too high? Both players can do essentially the same thing and both have an MSRP of $500.

I would fully expect the current 1.0 players to get discounted. So seeing a $299 bluray player is not out of the realm of possibility.

I think it is silly of yall to be comparing any bluray player to the $199 A2, which cant do 1080p, while all bluray players on the market can do 1080p. Im not saying a cheaper 1080i bluray player wouldnt be smart, but the comparison is not a very good one.

All these cons and blu-ray is still selling 2 to 1 , so what happens when these things change like affordable players.


We and WB know why BD is leading in sales of movies - the PS3 and WB wants SAL players to be the foundation of HDM - not a game console.

What affordable player?

There are NO Bridge formats for BD - they tried 2X and failed 2X with the BD Hybrid.

The only Web Enable annouced title isn't until Q3 of 2008.

How long would you like the market to wait for BD to get it's act together? Versus HD DVD which HAS it's act together.

This was the reply to someone who begged for one format. Sony has no reason to share with Toshiba, so a compromise is not going to happen. Consumer electronics companies have no reason to not make any money on cutting edge technology. Notice Toshiba is the only company offering ultra-low priced HDM players that no doubt are heavily subsidized.

Hopefully, consumers realize that not having the content they want such as Sony, Disney and Fox movies means those players are not worth $199 or $169 or whatever price.
Toshiba's strategy relies on cheap standalone players. I haven't seen Toshiba loosing billions of $$ by subsidizing these players.

Sony's strategy relies on the ps3. Sony's gaming division has lost 2.55 billion $$ in the last 18 months and that's WITH the ultra profitable ps2 and psp being in there. Can you imagine the true losses from the ps3 in the last 18 months??

Why wouldn't someone buy an ultra cheap HDDVD player ,at a price of a mid-range DVD player??What does the consumer have to loose?? At worst the consumer will have a great upscaling DVD player for a very reasonable price (plus there's tons of movies on HDDVD already). Why should the consumer (other than gamers and the ps3 of course) prefer an expensive Blu ray player without Universal+Paramaount/Dreamworks (and with smaller warner support thus far)??

The 1.1 player from Panasonic has been announced with an MSRP of $500. If you think this player is priced too high, I have to wonder if you think the A35's are priced too high? Both players can do essentially the same thing and both have an MSRP of $500.

I would fully expect the current 1.0 players to get discounted. So seeing a $299 bluray player is not out of the realm of possibility.

I think it is silly of yall to be comparing any bluray player to the $199 A2, which cant do 1080p, while all bluray players on the market can do 1080p. Im not saying a cheaper 1080i bluray player wouldnt be smart, but the comparison is not a very good one.

You are getting lost in the specs.

BD STILL has no 2.0 which is how studios can make extra money - Web Enable/IF So the A35 can still do something any of the new or existing BD players cannot.

Over 80% of the installed HDTV's are NOT 1080P and less than 1% can use 24P

The resolution is the EXACT same between 1080i and 1080P.

I think what everyone on both sides of this has to agree upon is, as of this moment, all the old bickering points are irrelevant.

The $198 gorilla has just walked in the room. Talking points, attach rates, bitrates, 2:1 sales, mean nothing until this shakes out.

BD has never had to compete with this. This either works or it doesn't. If it does, BD will know what it has to do - get out lower priced players pronto. If it doesn't work, frankly, it doesn't bode for HDM period.

Honestly, all this bickering reminds me of the swordsman in Raiders, just before Indiana Jones shoots him. :)

We and WB know why BD is leading in sales of movies - the PS3 and WB wants SAL players to be the foundation of HDM - not a game console.
And you've heard that from the person at WB that makes the decisions?


There are NO Bridge formats for BD - they tried 2X and failed 2X with the BD Hybrid.
Just like WB re-released many previous combo titles in non-combo format, and was rumored to be possibly dropping them all together?

How long would you like the market to wait for BD to get it's act together? Versus HD DVD which HAS it's act together.
Or perhaps they saw the true sales numbers of 300 vs. Transformers and believe that $200 price difference and movie giveaways galore with player purchases are not winning it for HD DVD?

What was it from last Nielson/Videoscan numbers, WB's biggest release was The Reaping which sold an amazing 3100 on Blu-ray, 1700 on HD DVD. People aren't buying into the format war, and perhaps the rock bottom prices leave little to no room for proper advertising and sales training? How many threads do we see that begin "I went into (Best Buy/Circuit City) the other day and (saw/heard)..."?

Isn't it fun speculating for the sake of speculating?

I am not moving anything. The lowest priced BD player is $449 while the lowest HD player is $198.

Do YOU consider $449 affordable? If so - why hasn't BD taken the lead for SAL players?

A fact is just a fact - nothing more.

Actually, it did for that 9 week span until mid august. $450 BDS-300s were apparently outselling $230 HD-A2s.

That's what the facts from NPD apparently indicated.

Of course, what happens after that, if only people would be kind enough to pay the fee and publish the NPD SAL numbers/ratios, we'd know for sure.

Instead we get the 63% --> 55% --> 53% SI/YTD ratios coming in from Toshiba instead of the weekly/monthly numbers that we want to see.

How about a nice fat juicy rumor about NPD weekly numbers leaked by people who have the reports in their hands?

And you've heard that from the person at WB that makes the decisions?

Sure have - we all did - the President of WHV - 9/21 - TWICE Interview

Just like WB re-released many previous combo titles in non-combo format, and was rumored to be possibly dropping them all together?

You forget that WB clarified this issue - they said they would re-release previous Combo's as HD DVD only and that they were NOT dropping the Combo format.

Perhaps they saw the true sales numbers of 300 vs. Transformers and believe that $200 price difference and movie giveaways galore with player purchases are not winning it for HD DVD?

Do you really believe 100,000 copies of ANY film mean anything to a studio that sells movies in the millions and 10's of millions?


What was it from last Nielson/Videoscan numbers, WB's biggest release was The Reaping which sold an amazing 3100 on Blu-ray, 1700 on HD DVD. People aren't buying into the format war, and perhaps the rock bottom prices leave little to no room for proper advertising and sales training? How many threads do we see that begin "I went into (Best Buy/Circuit City) the other day and (saw/heard)..."?

Yes - a major problem for HDM because it is a "souped up DVD" and the public is not adopting it as well as everyone had hoped for.

I ignore the "man in the mirror" threads - they mean nothing.

Here another thought.

Warner is supplying the 300 HD DVD inserts for all the 3rd generation HD DVD players.

Warner had to make that agreement months ago to Toshiba about the time Toshiba was negotiating with Wal-Mart for the agreement to carry the HD A2 and the terms and the required delivery schedule and guaranteed required quantities.

Warner talks to Wal-Mart all the time and would have know of the Wal-Mart deal at the same time as its support would be a critical item in Wal-Mart agreeing to carry the Toshiba players.

Wal-Mart would also be wanting a lot of Warner discs to support the HD A2 at $199.

Gosh, Kosty... You mean all those people buying HD A2 players might actually want to buy Batman Begins, 300, 2001, Harry Potter, and other WB HD DVD discs to play on their new machines...instead of $60 games?

Why would THAT interest Warners?:D

A theory? Have you read any of the studies done by the CEA or the NPD Group? This was the success point of DVD - when the players streeted for $199 - sales shot though the roof.

Can't say I have, but you'd think the 360 gaming community would have already matched the PS3-effect if price were the only factor. And those $199 DVD players were uncontested in the market.

WB knows why BD is leading in movie sales - the PS3 and they want to see SAL players be the success for HDM - not a game console - they have said this MANY times.

Of course, the PS3 is a placeholder. I think most people understand that point. But the SAL HD DVD players have not enjoyed overwhelming sales. They have enjoyed a small lead, but nothing overwhelming. And unless Venturer and Toshiba have perfected the replicator, I doubt they will be able to maintain a huge price difference over the next year.

And that, I suppose, is why I'm not really worried about being forced neutral. I don't see an explosion this year; I see it coming next year. And the PS3, weak though it is in the gaming sphere, has been doing what it was intended to do.

So let me once again question this issue of WB exclusively supporting BD . . . which does not have . . .

1. Fully functioning players - IME and IF

2. A truly affordable player.

3. Has no bridge format(s) like DL/TL Twin and Combo.

4. Cheap and plentiful manufacturing

So are the BD fans forgetting all these points?

No...they're ignoring them.

I don't agree at all with your analysis. If Warner dropped Blu-Ray, it would be as much a death blow to BD as it would be to HD DVD.

Absolutely. It's not just about number of studios per side, it's about momentum, perception, and morale. Oh, and pricing.

WB goes HD, and the majority of the BD fans will be screaming "payoff !!"... but they'll be screaming it while they drive straight to WM to get their A2. I expect about 30 posts denying this, but they will. If your $600-$1000 player only covers 3 studios, you won't let another $200 stand in your way of watching the other 3 in HD. Especially when you've just lost your 2nd major studio and you know there's no getting them back. Once the BD standalone owners and 20% of PS3 owners have their HD DVD players, software ratios start to rise in HD's favor quickly. Fox and Disney can't ignore neutrality. Then, when it's just Sony holding out, that's no longer a war. That's just one studio deciding not to sell their movies anymore.

Of course, if WB goes BD, HD DVD starts their death spiral all over again. But it will be a spiral, not a sudden rapture. Bad news for HD DVD does not necessarily coincide with massive immediate growth for BD, due to higher price and incomplete specs. If WB goes BD tomorrow, I'm selling my HD DVD library but I'm not buying a BR player. I'm renting from Netflix, HD where available, SD where not, until finished BD players are in the $200-$300 range.

Either way, whoever Warner picks is the winner, but it will take some time for the loser to fizzle out completely.

I got news for you folks Circuit City's stock just went up 5% why, $200 hddvd players. This is not a closeout sale. This is the mass market price point Toshiba, Universal, Warner execs have been talking about for more than a year. This is the price point where these players will take off. Sorry I am not buying the fact they go bluray exclusive tomorrow and then every hddvd player sold till xmas has a Warner title in the box.

Warner has openly stated all they care about in disc sales is returning profit to the studio. Sony is no longer subsidizing their bluray discs. Meaning even with a 2/3 sales margin for bluray 1/3 of that goes to the extra production cost. Meaning profits are exactly even. Not all Warner titles have sold more on bluray disc. Planet Earth for example. Transformers sales numbers have already thrown this comparison out the window anyway.

Does it strike anyone odd that their membership with the BDA ends tomorrow and that is when they are having a surprise press conference with some big news. Sorry if I don't take quotes from a biased reporter who wrote an article on why microsoft is prolonging the format war and writing another article at a pro bluray press event and then quoting Silverberg in a different paragraph concerning the HTSA having nothing to do with Warner with any credibility. It is PR spin and if you read the article the event was funded by hardware manufacturers, not the studios.

RUMOR: Some of the BDA CEM's are going ahead with three different profile platforms for BD players. 1.0. 1.1 and 2.0

Proof: The just announced Panasonic BM30 has NO ethernet port so it can never be upgraded to 2.0/BD-Live/Web Enable/IF

Time Frame: - November 2007

Odds of Happening: - For Panasonic - 100%

Lee does this mean profile 1.0 players will exist past Oct as a permanent profile for the format?

Although you're right that the discounted players will generate increased(albeit tiny) revenue for CC, this is no way capable of moving its stock price.

CC would need to seriously sell 10M+ players(since yesterday) to move the stock price 5%...

HD DVD price cuts are being done to spur mass adoption of movie players.

PS3 price cuts are being done because they are currently in 3rd place in the console wars and Sony doesn't want to lose out on their extremely lucrative gaming business.

That's how I see it anyway. It's nice that the PS3 plays Blu-ray discs and it's certainly given the format a shot in the arm. Long term HDM adoption will not depend on the success of a $400-$500 game console though.

OT for a sec.Sony basicly has already lost this gen of the video game war,(if being relegated to a permanant 3rd place is actually losing).How can i say this?Capcom,Activision,Bungie(newly independant),Sega,THQ,Id,Valve,are just a few of the video game developers/producers/distributors that have said they are/have already cut back,switched platform, or outright canceled many PS3 game conversions (nevermind exclusives)due to the cost of developing for the PS3 and it's difficulty to program for.They simply would rather sift thheir efforts and money into the less costy to develop for 360 and Wii(not to mention their relative ease to program games for).This will eventually reflect on the sales of BRD as well, as to the extent though, will remain to be seen.Unless Sony can subsidize enough game development to keep it's loyalists happy(which they can't), then we'll start seeing the effects within less than a year.No cut in hardware price wil make a difference if the flow of quality games slows to a crawl and there is better and bigger selections on two other lower priced competing consoles.

Lee does this mean profile 1.0 players will exist past Oct as a permanent profile for the format?

Only those players that are newly announced and street after 10/31 HAVE to be 1.1 compliant - they must have the hardware to preform DS PIP and DS Audio.

ANY BD player that was announced and streeted BEFORE 10/31 can continue to be manufactured and sold as a 1.0 player.

Both the brand new Sony's; the S500 and ES2000 are 1.0 players because they streeted before 10/31. Same with the brand new Phillips.

The SOL CEM seems to be Lowrery who showed that fancy BD player at IFA but never got it out in time (unless it streets tomorrow.)

I believe Samsung has stopped production of the P1200 and sells the P1400 instead but this is a 1.0 player. The 2 Pioneer5 players are already 1.0 players.

1. Warner Brothers knows that stand alone players is what will bring them higher profits
2. HD DVD players are selling at $198 and under this week to start
3. Warner Brothers' BDA membership ends this week
4. Rumors are floating that an XBox 360 is being planned with an internal HD DVD drive in 2008
5. Warner Brothers still seems to prefer HD DVD overall

All of this leads me to believe that any announcement tomorrow will be good news for HD DVD.

1. Warner Brothers knows that stand alone players is what will bring them higher profits
2. HD DVD players are selling at $198 and under this week to start
3. Warner Brothers' BDA membership ends this week
4. Rumors are floating that an XBox 360 is being planned with an internal HD DVD drive in 2008
5. Warner Brothers still seems to prefer HD DVD overall

6. Warner just co-formed an IME consortium last month with Microsoft, Toshiba, Paramount and Dreamworks.
7. Warner has expressed a great deal of interest in whomever could get the most players (TWICE) in consumers homes which was then revised to specify standalone players and not gaming consoles (HDTV Conference)
8. Warner has always released much more feature rich titles in HD-DVD vs. Bluray and has even not released some titles do to issues with BD profiles. They are still using work arounds for faking the PIP using expensive BD50's and double encodes.
9. Walmart owns everyone else when it comes to movie sales. Walmart/Warner have history in their ranks. It's very unlikely they would pump up HDM player sales at a time to huge numbers (considering they usually carry only 2-3 units) right before Warner was about to bail. Although Walmart likes to make money like the rest, they DO NOT dump product as a means to scam their customers into buying something days before it goes extinct.


All of this leads me to believe that any announcement tomorrow will be good news for HD DVD.

Me too.

1. Warner Brothers knows that stand alone players is what will bring them higher profits
2. HD DVD players are selling at $198 and under this week to start
3. Warner Brothers' BDA membership ends this week
4. Rumors are floating that an XBox 360 is being planned with an internal HD DVD drive in 2008
5. Warner Brothers still seems to prefer HD DVD overall

All of this leads me to believe that any announcement tomorrow will be good news for HD DVD.

You can make arguments for both sides. I am fearing we may get another left-field decision like with Paramount. Even though it happened to be good for HD-DVD, it didn't make a lot of objective sense at first. You never know what back-room conversations have taken place in the past couple of weeks.

Right now, I am hoping for neutral.

Well here is the real problem. Warner has already basically stated that they are going to look at the Q4 numbers then make a decision. that is difficult for me. i know what format to purchase if i want universal, paramount, sony, fox etc. I dont know what format to choose for warner. Why would i buy any player without knowing which one they will support in the future? i just purchased xyz player so i can watch harry potter. oh but wait. they are going to support the other abc player now so i am stuck with a piece of equipment i dont want because i cant play harry potter.

Within this lies uncertainty and doubt. This does not make me want a player. It makes me want to wait to get a player. Warner needs to make a decision. One way or the other.

Do you really believe 100,000 copies of ANY film mean anything to a studio that sells movies in the millions and 10's of millions?

Yes.

But in a negative way. It means neither format is profitable.

All indications I've read point to the Warner "announcement" likely being nothing HD DVD / Blu-ray related.

They did the same thing last week for HD DVD...watch the video...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=929319

Toshiba showed up to a WHV press event. Not the other way around.

6. Warner just co-formed an IME consortium last month with Microsoft, Toshiba, Paramount and Dreamworks.
7. Warner has expressed a great deal of interest in whomever could get the most players (TWICE) in consumers homes which was then revised to specify standalone players and not gaming consoles (HDTV Conference)
8. Warner has always released much more feature rich titles in HD-DVD vs. Bluray and has even not released some titles do to issues with BD profiles. They are still using work arounds for faking the PIP using expensive BD50's and double encodes.
9. Walmart owns everyone else when it comes to movie sales. Walmart/Warner have history in their ranks. It's very unlikely they would pump up HDM player sales at a time to huge numbers (considering they usually carry only 2-3 units) right before Warner was about to bail. Although Walmart likes to make money like the rest, they DO NOT dump product as a means to scam their customers into buying something days before it goes extinct.



Me too.

Excellent post and somewhat prophetic I must say.

The $198 gorilla has just walked in the room.

...lol...

This thread gets better ever minute....

Well here is the real problem. Warner has already basically stated that they are going to look at the Q4 numbers then make a decision. that is difficult for me. i know what format to purchase if i want universal, paramount, sony, fox etc. I dont know what format to choose for warner. Why would i buy any player without knowing which one they will support in the future? i just purchased xyz player so i can watch harry potter. oh but wait. they are going to support the other abc player now so i am stuck with a piece of equipment i dont want because i cant play harry potter.

Within this lies uncertainty and doubt. This does not make me want a player. It makes me want to wait to get a player. Warner needs to make a decision. One way or the other.

That's why I firmly believe the decision will be tomorrow.

The 1.1 player from Panasonic has been announced with an MSRP of $500. If you think this player is priced too high, I have to wonder if you think the A35's are priced too high? Both players can do essentially the same thing and both have an MSRP of $500.

I would fully expect the current 1.0 players to get discounted. So seeing a $299 bluray player is not out of the realm of possibility.

I think it is silly of yall to be comparing any bluray player to the $199 A2, which cant do 1080p, while all bluray players on the market can do 1080p. Im not saying a cheaper 1080i bluray player wouldnt be smart, but the comparison is not a very good one.

Just so you know...the A2 and A3 definitely can do 1080p, they just do it over 1080i60 signaling. The content on the discs is still the same regardless of player. If you have a recent and decent television set it can reproduce a pixel-perfect 1080p image from a 1080i signal. Don't mistake signaling from reproduction as many do.

Alright has there been an actual RUMOR posted since Mark reopened the thread?

So far all I have seen is people looking for reasons to say the Warner will go one way with NO links or credible sources to back it up.

That's why I firmly believe the decision will be tomorrow.
but has quarter 4 passed?

Toshiba showed up to a WHV press event. Not the other way around.


But........... Toshiba was INVITED BY WARNER.....:D

It is PR spin and if you read the article the event was funded by hardware manufacturers, not the studios.

Not true. Re-read the first paragraph of the article. Click! (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6495508.html?desc=topstory)

Blu-ray Ad Campaign Airs
by Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 10/30/2007 6:37:00 AM
Hollywood, Calif. — Sensing the need to step up promotional efforts behind the Blu-ray Disc format heading into the critical holiday selling season, a group of hardware manufacturers and studios have pooled their resources on a “multimillion-dollar” television, print and online advertising campaign, billed as the largest for the format so far.

Some posters here on AVS previously tried to "spin" the comments from Dan Silverberg by attempting to attribute his quotes to someone else and now this? Who exactly is spreading FUD now by attempting to disect and discredit each published news article looking for a loophole as though it was written by a team of lawyers? It's becoming silly now.

Alright has there been an actual RUMOR posted since Mark reopened the thread?

So far all I have seen is people looking for reasons to say the Warner will go one way with NO links or credible sources to back it up.

I posted a RUMOR since the thread reopened - no one has responded. (Post #882 - page 30)

And this will all be put to bed (as to what the announcement is) tomorrow.

So the MODS can lock the thread AGAIN till tomorrow - or we can discuss my rumor because there is no linkable proof until tomorrow on this WB announcement.

Lee does this mean profile 1.0 players will exist past Oct as a permanent profile for the format?
RUMOR: Some of the BDA CEM's are going ahead with three different profile platforms for BD players. 1.0. 1.1 and 2.0

Proof: The just announced Panasonic BM30 has NO ethernet port so it can never be upgraded to 2.0/BD-Live/Web Enable/IF

Time Frame: - November 2007

Odds of Happening: - For Panasonic - 100%

I though the Ethernet port was required for profile 1.1

I though the Ethernet port was required for profile 1.1


No - only for 2.0 along with an increase of Persistant Storage - from 256MB to 1GB

Hardware Requirements for the different profiles:

1.0 - Single processor SoC and 64K of P.S.

1.1 - Dual processor SoC and 256 MB of P.S.

2.0 - Ethernet Port and 1.0 GB of P.S.

And this will all be put to bed (as to what the announcement is) tomorrow....Has it even been confirmed that there will, in fact, be an announcement tomorrow?

I though the Ethernet port was required for profile 1.1

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sony-blu-ray-specification-deadline/?searchterm=blu-ray%20%201.1

Has it even been confirmed that there will, in fact, be an announcement tomorrow?

From what has been posted - WHV is requesting/making a Press Release to AP tomorrow.

The 1.1 player from Panasonic has been announced with an MSRP of $500. If you think this player is priced too high, I have to wonder if you think the A35's are priced too high? Both players can do essentially the same thing and both have an MSRP of $500.

I would fully expect the current 1.0 players to get discounted. So seeing a $299 bluray player is not out of the realm of possibility.

I think it is silly of yall to be comparing any bluray player to the $199 A2, which cant do 1080p, while all bluray players on the market can do 1080p. Im not saying a cheaper 1080i bluray player wouldnt be smart, but the comparison is not a very good one.

Closing in, but BD-ROM Profile 1.1 doesn't include Profile 2.0! So we're still looking at an intereactivity gap!

From what has been posted - WHV is requesting/making a Press Release to AP tomorrow.

Warner but not the BDA? Hmmm.
Maybe they will finally release several movies that were previously HD DVD exclusive. They will be on BD 1.1 discs with IME/PiP.

That actually makes more sense that other things I have read here.

but has quarter 4 passed?
No, but Warner can already make projections based on what they know is coming in the fourth quarter. This includes players and software. Were they disappointed by the Transformers numbers? We don't know. I would have thought though that Warner would wait to see how Spiderman did. Of course, the Spiderman numbers don't matter if Warner has already decided to go with Blu-ray. Warner might have also been waiting to see if Toshiba was going to be able to deliver the players at the price points that were promised.

Warner but not the BDA? Hmmm.
Maybe they will finally release several movies that were previously HD DVD exclusive. They will be on BD 1.1 discs with IME/PiP.

That actually makes more sense that other things I have read here.

YES - a believableable topic because the last two Press Releases that WHV has made have been the official announcements for the Blade Runner box set and the Harry Potter box set.

They may announce the 20 missing titles for BD next year.

Kosty alluded that the announcement was not "bad for HD DVD" and WB announcing those 20 missing titles would be good for BD and not "hurt" HD DVD.

Good catch - I am betting 98% this will be the announcement. None of the 20 missing title have IF do they? I thought they only had DS PIP.

And they may not announce all 20 . . . could be 5 or 10. But we know Batman Begins and The Matrix Box set would be included - neither have IF.

And the BDA via Panasonic has proven that they will release 1.1 compliant players.

Oh, so this a a bluray event now is it. Give me a break. As well, they just announced this today so the BDA members had no intention of attending since they did not no it was not going to happen. Those hoping for bluray exclusivity tomorrow are dreaming.

What if WB just announces an across-the-board price cut?

I have also learned that a well-known Hollywood financial brokerage is attending this event. I am told it is the same brokerage which brokered the Paramount/Toshiba deal a couple of months a go.
~Josh

So couldn't this equal up to the BDA paying WB to go exclusive?

Let the rumors fly!

WB is announcing the first HD DVD TL Twin ONLY release of one of their movies!

How's that?

That "festival" ends today. the WB announcement is tomorrow.

Hold on here:

please don't attack another member

Challenge the post...not the poster

disappointed in you guys: if you continue to attack, you will get infraction points

you have been warned :mad:

disappointed in you guys: if you continue to attack, you will get infraction points

you have been warned :mad:

Mark, its Devil's / Mischief Night..... hehe, giv'em a break :p

Mark, its Devil's / Mischief Night..... hehe, giv'em a break :p

you guys have fun discussing the rumor...we draw the line with attacks

If you can abide by that, we are good

Thanks

I have been researching the possibility of WB announcing Exclusive Blu-ray support tomorrow for most of the day. I have called all of my contacts at The BDA and WB for information.

What I can tell you is that earlier in the day there was no finalized agreement for WB to go Blu-ray Exclusive. However throughout the day events have been unfolding and discussions/negotiations are taking place.

I have learned that several high-ranking members of The BDA who had no intention of attending this Blu-ray event this week abruptly changed plans and headed for the event today in an expedited manner. I have also learned that a well-known Hollywood financial brokerage is attending this event. I am told it is the same brokerage which brokered the Paramount/Toshiba deal a couple of months a go. Finally we have learned that WB is planning what appears to be a larger than normal press event for tomorrow.

Does this mean WB is going Blu-ray Exclusive tomorrow? Well, at this hour I do not know. My gut feeling is that WB will still wait until early 2008 to make a decision.

If I receive any further updates tonight or early tomorrow, I will inform you guys.

~Josh

Josh,

WB’s press event was known already this past Saturday (if not before). But according to your sources: a deal is A) not done yet and B) so unexpected that top BDA execs had to head to the event in an “expedient manner”. Yet, before even negotiating the deal, WB put together a press conference to announce it?

While I guess it’s possible they could strike a deal and announce it tomorrow, I’m highly suspicious that the original intent of the press conference is to announce this deal. In fact, since their BDA contract is up tomorrow and they had a press conference already scheduled, it would seem just as likely that the BDA negations could be to keep them from going HD DVD exclusive.

Have your sources told you specifically that they are negotiating blu-ray exclusivity? Or is it possible that they are negotiating a new BDA contract or something else?

Thanks…

Josh,

WB’s press event was known already this past Saturday (if not before). But according to your sources: a deal is A) not done yet and B) so unexpected that top BDA execs had to head to the event in an “expedient manner”. Yet, before even negotiating the deal, WB put together a press conference to announce it?

While I guess it’s possible they could strike a deal and announce it tomorrow, I’m highly suspicious that the original intent of the press conference is to announce this deal. In fact, since their BDA contract is up tomorrow and they had a press conference already scheduled, it would seem just as likely that the BDA negations could be to keep them from going HD DVD exclusive.

Have your sources told you specifically that they are negotiating blu-ray exclusivity? Or is it possible that they are negotiating a new BDA contract or something else?

Thanks…

+1

Excellent questions.

Just a thought, but at this late date with an announcement due tommorrow (whole bunch of assumptions here) maybe BDA are trying to counteroffer and kill a deal for WB to go hddvd. Just a thought now, based on beatboys scenario of what is going on behind the scene. I think that is something that would bring in senior execs at the last minute along with the financial guys.

Rumor: PS3 confirmed to support Profile 1.1 and 2.0

Source: Bill Hunt from thedigitalbits.com

quote:
" Some other notes: We've learned that Sony's PlayStation 3 WILL be firmware updatable to BD-Java 1.1 compliance (expect news on this relatively soon) and likely (eventually) to 2.0 as well. "

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Rumor: PS3 confirmed to support Profile 1.1 and 2.0

Source: Bill Hunt from thedigitalbits.com

quote:
" Some other notes: We've learned that Sony's PlayStation 3 WILL be firmware updatable to BD-Java 1.1 compliance (expect news on this relatively soon) and likely (eventually) to 2.0 as well. "

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Oh, there ya go;)

If Warner has made a decision to go HD-DVD only, there would be good reason to announce it tomorrow, ie, to support the broad push behind Toshiba players this shopping season.

The same thing goes for a decision to only support Blu-Ray, ie, they would want to join in the new marketing push by the BDA.

However, Warner has consistantly stated the importance of low-cost players as the key to HDM overtaking standard DVD's. Undoubtedly, they knew about Walmart's introduction of the Toshiba A2's and probably about Sears BF sale also. They may or may not have known about cc's and Amazon's matching of the Walmart deal.

Warner also just stated that both formats now have "affordable" players and that it may be time for them to make a decision about supporting one format only. But, saying that both are affordable does not mean that both meet Warner's criteria for what they believe will be the price point to spur mass adoption.

If they decided to choose now, they would almost certainly choose the low-cost player, ie, HD-DVD based on the track record of what they have said in the past.

Will they announce a decision tomorrow? Like everyone else I don't know. But if they do, the odds seem overwhelming in favor or them supporting HD-DVD exclusively rather than Blu-Ray exclusively.

fafner

If Warner has made a decision to go HD-DVD only, there would be good reason to announce it tomorrow, ie, to support the broad push behind Toshiba players this shopping season.

The same thing goes for a decision to only support Blu-Ray, ie, they would want to join in the new marketing push by the BDA.

However, Warner has consistantly stated the importance of low-cost players as the key to HDM overtaking standard DVD's. Undoubtedly, they knew about Walmart's introduction of the Toshiba A2's and probably about Sears BF sale also. They may or may not have known about cc's and Amazon's matching of the Walmart deal.

Warner also just stated that both formats now have "affordable" players and that it may be time for them to make a decision about supporting one format only. But, saying that both are affordable does not mean that both meet Warner's criteria for what they believe will be the price point to spur mass adoption.

If they decided to choose now, they would almost certainly choose the low-cost player, ie, HD-DVD based on the track record of what they have said in the past.

Will they announce a decision tomorrow? Like everyone else I don't know. But if they do, the odds seem overwhelming in favor or them supporting HD-DVD exclusively rather than Blu-Ray exclusively.

fafner

The quotes they have made in the last few days are what matters and their quotes have been OVERWHELMINGLY pro-bluray. STill that doesnt mean they are going bluray exclusive.

The quotes they have made in the last few days are what matters and their quotes have been OVERWHELMINGLY pro-bluray. STill that doesnt mean they are going bluray exclusive.

Merrick, if WB does go HDDVD can I at least throw out a couple nyah, nyah, nyahs at you?:p

Just a thought, but at this late date with an announcement due tommorrow (whole bunch of assumptions here) maybe BDA are trying to counteroffer and kill a deal for WB to go hddvd. Just a thought now, based on beatboys scenario of what is going on behind the scene. I think that is something that would bring in senior execs at the last minute along with the financial guys.

Same thing I thought >>>

Stop the presses, WB just informed the BDA that they WILL NOT renew their enrollment in the cosortium. BDA panicked so bad that they called in ALL The BIG GUNS to try and change their minds. Money was laid on the table, but it was too little, too late ... Kind of like the Sony PS3 $399 price cut.

disappointed in you guys: if you continue to attack, you will get infraction points

you have been warned :mad:

What are "infraction points"? Is there a sliding scale? How many points are needed to be banned? I read a reference to this before and I was confused about it. Can we get bonus points for good posts? Is there way to find our point balance? Just wondering.

Anyway, I very seriously doubt we'll hear anything about exclusivity from Warner before January. I'd be very surprised if they announce that tomorrow (although I was shocked by the Paramount announcement, so I guess it's possible).

Tomorrow's announcement is probably something completely different and, therefore, will be somewhat anticlimactic since everybody expects a bombshell.

Is tommorrow going to be fun or what!

There is NO WAY the people dropped everything to fly into the consortium unless there was a hail marry to toss. Seriously, this crap would have already been worked. Of course, this is beatboy's rumor contribution.

There is NO WAY the people dropped everything to fly into the consortium unless there was a hail marry to toss. Seriously, this crap would have already been worked. Of course, this is beatboy's rumor contribution.

If it works out the way we are thinking then we have just validated Beatboys credibility in full. :D

But if they do, the odds seem overwhelming in favor or them supporting HD-DVD exclusively rather than Blu-Ray exclusively.

fafner


I honestly have no clue how you can come to that conclusion. EVERYTHING possible that matters (sales of hardware, sales of software, studio support, hardware support, support at retail, etc) all points to BD Exclusivity. Warners TOP selling movie in HD is on BD and the MAJORITY of their catalog has sold much higher on BD then HD this entire time. But because Toshiba is clearancing out 50k Last Gen 1080i players at a few stores, that means Warner will drop BD and join HD? Seriously? I don't see it. Honestly.

there are several levels of infractions: each has points and the points expire

for example:

Attacked another member 3 points expires in 14 Day

unexpired points can accumulate to a suspension or ban: don't ask please

we are still looking for the bonus points menus...

Same thing I thought >>>

Stop the presses, WB just informed the BDA that they WILL NOT renew their enrollment in the cosortium. BDA panicked so bad that they called in ALL The BIG GUNS to try and change their minds. Money was laid on the table, but it was too little, too late ... Kind of like the Sony PS3 $399 price cut.

Wouldnt the BDA have known before today that Warner would not be renewing their BDA membership?

One thing that really stands out is that Warner hasnt released any statement denying they are going exclusive either way, which they have been quick to do in the past. So maybe the BDA have managed to persuade them after all and Warner would rather let the rumours swirl and give an official announcement than do a denial and then retraction.

Just a thought, but at this late date with an announcement due tommorrow (whole bunch of assumptions here) maybe BDA are trying to counteroffer and kill a deal for WB to go hddvd. Just a thought now, based on beatboys scenario of what is going on behind the scene. I think that is something that would bring in senior execs at the last minute along with the financial guys.

OR, its possible that Warner accepted the BDA's offer and they flew in to be on hand when they make the announcement.

See, I can make assumptions, too!

OR, its possible that Warner accepted the BDA's offer and they flew in to be on hand when they make the announcement.

See, I can make assumptions, too!

Assume away! That is what this thread is all about isn't it?

As long as we stay within the confines of "doable" or "sane" then lets discuss our opinions.

YOUR ASSUMPTION: Well everyone loves a group picture!;)

Assume away! That is what this thread is all about isn't it?

As long as we stay within the confines of "doable" or "sane" then lets discuss our opinions.

YOUR ASSUMPTION: Well everyone loves a group picture!;)

I just want HDM to succeed. Ill take two formats over going the way of downloads. Thats all I want.

My new "off the wall" pick for the reason for the PR:

GE is selling it's interests in both NBC and Universal Studios to Warner Bros!

And in an interesting twist, when we spoke with him at the opening reception yesterday, Warner Home Video's VP of HD Media Development, Dan Silberberg, seemed to indicate that the studio was reconsidering its dual format support strategy and that they're going to be watching 4th quarter sales very closely: "We're not sure that two formats is what's going to take this to the next level."

We'll have a lot more on all this late tomorrow afternoon, after we return to the office. He does not seem to super excited about this.

That could be consistent with Bill Hunt knowing but not being able to tell 1 way or another.


Also, we are now a month into the 4Q and Toshiba is now in a position to tell Warner pretty much what Oct hardware numbers will be , and what they have shipping for retailers for November and have planned for Black Friday.

Jodi Salley from Toshiba just said HD DVD went up to 60% market share , probably Blu-ray 37% , dual format 3%, and thats probably EOM Sep NPD numbers.

Warner may have just gotten the results they needed.

HD DVD went up to 60% market share

And this is before $198 & Wal-mart...

Jodi Salley from Toshiba just said HD DVD went up to 60% market share , probably Blu-ray 37% , dual format 3%, and thats probably EOM Sep NPD numbers.

Warner may have just gotten the results they needed.

Think you mixed up the 60% - that's clearly the BR market share for players.

Think you mixed up the 60% - that's clearly the BR market share for players.

They don't count the PS3.

They don't count the PS3.

Well, according to the TWICE article, neither does Warner...

I have been researching the possibility of WB announcing Exclusive Blu-ray support tomorrow for most of the day. I have called all of my contacts at The BDA and WB for information.

What I can tell you is that earlier in the day there was no finalized agreement for WB to go Blu-ray Exclusive. However throughout the day events have been unfolding and discussions/negotiations are taking place.

I have learned that several high-ranking members of The BDA who had no intention of attending this Blu-ray event this week abruptly changed plans and headed for the event today in an expedited manner. I have also learned that a well-known Hollywood financial brokerage is attending this event. I am told it is the same brokerage which brokered the Paramount/Toshiba deal a couple of months a go. Finally we have learned that WB is planning what appears to be a larger than normal press event for tomorrow.

Does this mean WB is going Blu-ray Exclusive tomorrow? Well, at this hour I do not know. My gut feeling is that WB will still wait until early 2008 to make a decision.

If I receive any further updates tonight or early tomorrow, I will inform you guys.

~Josh I think he meant the BD insiders came in a hurry to the CA event.

That could also be consistent with last minute attempts to discourge Warner from a big pro HD DVD announcement.

If it was going to be a pro Blu-ray thing tomorrow, and Warner has already set up the press event, the BDA members would already know about it, Right?

Is the Warner announcement in New York? or LA? I don't know.

They don't count the PS3.

Thank goodness! Seeing a player ratio of 80/17/3 would be very demoralizing for us HD DVD owners:D

Well, according to the TWICE article, neither does Warner...

So they just believe the attach rate on stand alones is much higher on blu-ray players then for movies like 300, etc.

Well, according to the TWICE article, neither does Warner...

/yawn

Why havent they gone HD DVD exclusive yet then? If Warner doesnt count them BR is getting slaughtered.......

Jodi Salley from Toshiba just said HD DVD went up to 60% market share

Kosty, do you have a link for that? :)

I honestly have no clue how you can come to that conclusion. EVERYTHING possible that matters (sales of hardware, sales of software, studio support, hardware support, support at retail, etc) all points to BD Exclusivity. Warners TOP selling movie in HD is on BD and the MAJORITY of their catalog has sold much higher on BD then HD this entire time. But because Toshiba is clearancing out 50k Last Gen 1080i players at a few stores, that means Warner will drop BD and join HD? Seriously? I don't see it. Honestly.

They are NOT clearancing out the A2's. Wal-Mart has stated there is no limit on the number of A2's they have to sell.

I honestly dont know how you missed this point since it has been stated many many times. Honestly.

fafner

Think you mixed up the 60% - that's clearly the BR market share for players. That would the NPD number for the category of high definition DVD set top units, ie dedicated standalone players not including any game consoles, like the PS3, or any device accessories like the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on drive.

I'm just assuming she's using the Sep NPD numbers.

In the past every time she has given market share it based on EOM NPD numbers, unless she says total units IIRC.

I think he meant the BD insiders came in a hurry to the CA event.

That could also be consistent with last minute attempts to discourge Warner from a big pro HD DVD announcement.

If it was going to be a pro Blu-ray thing tomorrow, and Warner has already set up the press event, the BDA members would already know about it, Right?

Is the Warner announcement in New York? or LA? I don't know.

If it was a pro bluray thing you think they could have had the announcement during the bluray festival.

Kosty, do you have a link for that?


http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=11448

....Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Universal Pictures Digital Platforms, has identified establishing a sub-$200 price point as a key to mass consumer adoption of high-def packaged media.

Sally said the price cuts were retail-driven — not manufacturer-driven — and signaled an early start of a high-definition holiday shopping season.

“There was no official move on our MSRP, but I’m happy to see the strong sales momentum on our players,” Sally said. “We experienced a great lift in player sales when Transformers (Paramount) was released, and the strong momentum continues.”

The studio, which released titles in both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc, now distributes exclusively in HD DVD.

Sally said third-party research indicated Toshiba’s market share of next-generation, optical-disc players (including Blu-ray) has climbed to about 60%. She said the format also experienced a significant unit upturn with sales of HD DVD-enabled PC laptops.

She said Toshiba has a 70% worldwide market share of all high-def players.

Thanx Kosty...and all that before the 198$ players :)

So they just believe the attach rate on stand alones is much higher on blu-ray players then for movies like 300, etc.

Correct. They feel PS3 sells fantastically for "gamer" titles. But they question the true value of the PS3 when it comes to the other 80 some odd percent of their movies that wouldn't typically be embraced by a "gamer".

"What we find people are excited about isn’t interactivity,” said Andy Parsons, SVP of new product development and technical support for Pioneer Electronics, and chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association’s U.S. Promotion Committee. “[They buy high-def] because they want to see high-definition. “… Blu-ray titles are consistently outselling HD [DVD] 2-to-1. Yes, interactivity is nice, but it isn’t causing anyone to not watch 300 on Blu-ray.

Dan Silverberg, VP of high definition media development for Warner Bros., calmed both sides by saying 300 was marketed heavily to PS3 owners, but “it’s dangerous to just rely on gamers. To be reliant on them is something I don’t think either camps wants to do."



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=921521

That would the NPD number for the category of high definition DVD set top units, ie dedicated standalone players not including any game consoles, like the PS3, or any device accessories like the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on drive.

I'm just assuming she's using the Sep NPD numbers.

In the past every time she has given market share it based on EOM NPD numbers, unless she says total units IIRC.

Oh, so that doesn't include the PS3. Don't you think that's kind of a misleading statistic in that case? I know many people that use the PS3 as their stand alone unit.

She said Toshiba has a 70% worldwide market share of all high-def players.

Their attach rate is worse than I had initially thought. There must be some truth to what people say. Many people buy Toshiba players for the large quantity of free titles included during the initial player purchase but then don't really buy many beyond that.

I have and hddvd player and have 89 titles.

The quotes they have made in the last few days are what matters and their quotes have been OVERWHELMINGLY pro-bluray. STill that doesnt mean they are going bluray exclusive. Those quotes are pretty factual in nature.

No real announcements , just keep the plate spinning kinda of stuff, consistent with prior statements, but breaking new ground.

You know, just the kinda of things you would expect a professional executive to say when before a dramatic announcement is made, and he is trying not to reveal things beforehand. ;) :D :p

Now, the Warner attendee at the Blu-ray CA event was the VP, not the senior VP or WHV President right?

The new SVP for HD is the female executive, she was not there, I take it .

The more senior executives a Warner did not attend this CA event, is that correct?

For those with faith in the PS3 as a BD player and think it will really help BD win the war . . .

1. A movie runs about 2 hours . . how long does it take to get through a game so you can say; "Finished it!" . . . ?

2. What would happen if 2 or 3 really good games came out for the PS3 and tons of them were sold - like a Halo 3 (I am dangerous - I have a little bit of knowledge on gaming and such:D)

You can't play a game and watch a movie at the same time can you? So if you are playing a game - you are not watching a movie. SAL - movies only - no dual use.

Their attach rate is worse than I had initially thought. There must be some truth to what people say. Many people buy Toshiba players for the large quantity of free titles included during the initial player purchase but then don't really buy many beyond that.

I don't think you're reading it correctly. This is a recent swing by the sounds of it. i.e. within the last month. If so, prepare to see the numbers start rising again.


“We experienced a great lift in player sales when Transformers (Paramount) was released, and the strong momentum continues.”

I would read it as this:

Transformers just came out. Saying "We [started to experience] a great lift in player sales when Transformers (Paramount) was released, and the strong momentum continues [after Transformers]

Many people buy Toshiba players for the large quantity of free titles included during the initial player purchase but then don't really buy many beyond that.

What a joke. :rolleyes: Large quanititys of free movies for Toshiba?

How about the 5 free Panasonic is giving away with their player... in the box? Plus the 5 free by mail....

#3 - allows the ability to sell to owners of 135 million DVD players versus the pool of BD owners - a few million. Bridge formats are only exclusive to HD DVD.

#4 - manufacturing HD DVD's we have learned is less expensive. With the movie price being the same - this puts more $ in WB's pockets . . and this isn't important?



So you want to speculate? OK- WHICH player will be MSRP'd at $299?



Well the Wii seems to have disproved that.



What you are willing to pay and what 500,000 other people are willing to pay is two different things. But all studies say that $199 is the magic price point for CE products - to get out of the EA market and into the middle market which is much larger than the EA market.

When a CE product hits $99 then it is considered a mass market product and the pool of buyers jumps by 100X



#3 And not ONCE has Warner mentioned this is important to them, not once. In fact arent they releasing non combos now?

#4 You can't prove BR is significantly more expensive to produce, and even if you could, do you think the BDA will pass on the charges to a studio they are trying to get exclusive? :rolleyes:

The Wii disproved what? I am talking about HDM not gaming console prices.


And you dont have the slightest clue what Warner calls affordable. All we have is that he was quoted saying that both formats are affordable.

I am now looking at this 2 ways:

1. Toshiba knows WB is taking their support from HD-DVD and giving it all to blu-ray. In a last stand to make some money they are putting the A2 at $200 to try and scrape in any money they can before it's to late.

or

2. Toshiba knows something that we don't yet and they lowered the price of the A2 to get more people to buy into HD-DVD because they know they just got WB on there side and they are going to be picking up ground very fast!

I hope it's 2 over 1 :)

In either case if HD-DVD loses WB it's over...

What a joke. :rolleyes: Large quanititys of free movies for Toshiba?

How about the 5 free Panasonic is giving away with their player... in the box? Plus the 5 free by mail....

Didn't sound like she was joking to me. Pretty straight forward.

She said Toshiba has a 70% worldwide market share of all high-def players.


edit in response to your edit: That Panasonic promotion sounds like a good deal :)

For those with faith in the PS3 as a BD player and think it will really help BD win the war . . .

1. A movie runs about 2 hours . . how long does it take to get through a game so you can say; "Finished it!" . . . ?

2. What would happen if 2 or 3 really good games came out for the PS3 and tons of them were sold - like a Halo 3 (I am dangerous - I have a little bit of knowledge on gaming and such:D)

You can't play a game and watch a movie at the same time can you? So if you are playing a game - you are not watching a movie. SAL - movies only - no dual use.

Many BRers on this site use the PS3 as a BR player and only a BR player.

Sure they do!!!!

10/30/07http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
And in an interesting twist, when we spoke with him at the opening reception yesterday, Warner Home Video's VP of HD Media Development, Dan Silberberg, seemed to indicate that the studio was reconsidering its dual format support strategy and that they're going to be watching 4th quarter sales very closely: "We're not sure that two formats is what's going to take this to the next level."

We'll have a lot more on all this late tomorrow afternoon, after we return to the office.

Interesting that he din't made another "Major Blu-ray victory" post out of this...It makes one wonder ;)

Didn't sound like she was joking to me. Pretty straight forward.




edit in response to your edit: That Panasonic promotion sounds like a good deal :)

In that case, it sure didn't help the sales of BD standalones, did it?

Oh and I believe the Panasonic deal is now dead, but don't hold me to that.

OR, its possible that Warner accepted the BDA's offer and they flew in to be on hand when they make the announcement.

See, I can make assumptions, too!

Nice one, I like that one too. We're going to drive ourselves crazy until tomorrow

Nice one, I like that one too. We're going to drive ourselves crazy until tomorrow

The best part is that not all of us will, many here have convinced themselves 1 way or another that they KNOW what will happen.

It is like a train wreck, I just can't look away from some of the posters here on how positive they are that they are right, when the facts they have are the same as the facts everyone else has.

Classic

The best part is that not all of us will, many here have convinced themselves 1 way or another that they KNOW what will happen.

It is like a train wreck, I just can't look away from some of the posters here on how positive they are that they are right, when the facts they have are the same as the facts everyone else has.

Classic


This is just like a big whodunit or maybe a whodidit! Let's keep watching the train wreck. Ain't technology great?

#3 And not ONCE has Warner mentioned this is important to them, not once. In fact arent they releasing non combos now?

WB started using the Combo right after Universal. So they must have some interest in it. And they have released HD DVD only discs where previously they were Combo's. This is the second time they have done this. Army of Darkness was in the first time . . Superman Returns in the second.

And they will continue to release Combo's - they said so.

#4 You can't prove BR is significantly more expensive to produce, and even if you could, do you think the BDA will pass on the charges to a studio they are trying to get exclusive? :rolleyes:

The ONLY data I am working with, is from Richard at R&B Films who publically stated, here at AVS, concerning the disc cost of Natures Journey; "BD was 30% more than HD DVD."

No insiders, or speculators, or FUD masters . . . a man who did business with both camps and told us which was more and which was less and by how much.

The Wii disproved what? I am talking about HDM not gaming console prices.

My bad - the age old problem . . Is the PS3 a game console? Yes. Is the PS3 a BD player? Yes. Wasn't clear. i was trying to say that the PS3 as more expensive than both the 360 and the Wii and is in 3rd place because of it. Guess the gaming community doesn't think that a BD player is worth $150.

You know what? They don't! Look at the sales of the 360 AO - against the population of 360's in the wild . . 4%?

And you dont have the slightest clue what Warner calls affordable. All we have is that he was quoted saying that both formats are affordable.

You are right! Warner may think that $500 priced HD movie players are at bargin basement prices for all I know.

BuT I did present some facts from NPD didn't I? or am I confusing the other thread - same subject - 2 threads - was hedging my bet incase the rumor thread got locked - happens often

For those with faith in the PS3 as a BD player and think it will really help BD win the war . . .

1. A movie runs about 2 hours . . how long does it take to get through a game so you can say; "Finished it!" . . . ?

2. What would happen if 2 or 3 really good games came out for the PS3 and tons of them were sold - like a Halo 3 (I am dangerous - I have a little bit of knowledge on gaming and such:D)

You can't play a game and watch a movie at the same time can you? So if you are playing a game - you are not watching a movie. SAL - movies only - no dual use.

Lee I have two PS3's. I do like to play games but the reason I bought the PS3 was for multimedia - to play Bly-ray movies first (I thought and I still do think that it is the best value Blu-ray player on the market). I have purchased 12 Blu-ray titles over the past several months. With DVD movies I usually rented them. I also like how fast the PS3 boots up and can play a Blu-ray movie in less that thirty seconds. It also appear the PS3 will be upgradeable via firmware to Blu-ray spec 1.1 and 2. I think you will find many PS3 owners to use it for Blu-ray movies. In fact, one on the AVS founders purchased a PS3 for playing Blu-ray movies.

I've gotta get off this site man!!!! It is like crack cocaine!!!!!

Lee I have two PS3's. I do like to play games but the reason I bought the PS3 was for multimedia - to play Bly-ray movies first (I thought and I still do think that it is the best value Blu-ray player on the market). I have purchased 12 Blu-ray titles over the past several months. With DVD movies I usually rented them. I also like how fast the PS3 boots up and can play a Blu-ray movie in less that thirty seconds. It also appear the PS3 will be upgradeable via firmware to Blu-ray spec 1.1 and 2. I think you will find many PS3 owners to use it for Blu-ray movies. In fact, one on the AVS founders purchased a PS3 for playing Blu-ray movies.

No question - you can cite person after person. And we as informed AVS members know how many . . approx 20% of the PS3's are being used for BD playback. That also means that 80% are not.

As far as the FW UP for the PS3 - heard and read alot about it - haven't seen it yet and as we go forward more and more of these "announcements" are really turning into goals . . . where some do not make it ala Sony and Fox as far as title announcements . . then reschedules or cancellations. Or Samsung and the P2400 . . .announced . . then cancelled. (and the 5000 fiascio)

And we both know the Toshiba 24P upgrade for the XA2 created more problems than it solved didn't it?

Lee I have two PS3's. I do like to play games but the reason I bought the PS3 was for multimedia - to play Bly-ray movies first (I thought and I still do think that it is the best value Blu-ray player on the market). I have purchased 12 Blu-ray titles over the past several months. With DVD movies I usually rented them. I also like how fast the PS3 boots up and can play a Blu-ray movie in less that thirty seconds. It also appear the PS3 will be upgradeable via firmware to Blu-ray spec 1.1 and 2. I think you will find many PS3 owners to use it for Blu-ray movies. In fact, one on the AVS founders purchased a PS3 for playing Blu-ray movies.

The Pioneer is a better BD and network player, and it isn't as fast.

Those quotes are pretty factual in nature.

No real announcements , just keep the plate spinning kinda of stuff, consistent with prior statements, but breaking new ground.

You know, just the kinda of things you would expect a professional executive to say when before a dramatic announcement is made, and he is trying not to reveal things beforehand. ;) :D :p



Exactly. Some read a very pro-BR sentiment in the BR Festival statement. I'm seeing a poker face. Could go either way, and nobody can look back on those statements and call him a liar.

"We can definitely talk about BR. We are committed to BR." What does that mean? Committed as in you love it and want to proceed forward with it? Or committed in a contractually binding sort of way... for the next couple days?

Those statements could mean the beginning of the end for HD DVD. Or they could mean BDA knew Warner wasn't renewing their membership, but asked them to fulfill their committments to the current membership by showing up at a BDA press event and saying nice things about BR. Put off the news as long as possible to give the BDA time to keep increasing their bid, fabricate new promises about PS3 domination, etc.

No matter what happens tomorrow, NOBODY can show up here afterwards and claim they knew. If WB picks a side, half the people on this forum will be wrong, and the half that are right will still be wrong because they were only right by accident.

No question - you can cite person after person. And we as informed AVS members know how many . . approx 20% of the PS3's are being used for BD playback. That also means that 80% are not.

As far as the FW UP for the PS3 - heard and read alot about it - haven't seen it yet and as we go forward more and more of these "announcements" are really turning into goals . . . where some do not make it ala Sony and Fox as far as title announcements . . then reschedules or cancellations. Or Samsung and the P2400 . . .announced . . then cancelled. (and the 5000 fiascio)

And we both know the Toshiba 24P upgrade for the XA2 created more problems than it solved didn't it?

Lee: How can we forget Denon? Why were they delayed?:D Wasn't there some talk about compatibility issues voiced by a senior executive from Denon?

I have written down what will happen 2morrow and have sealed it in an envelope.

After 2morrows PC, I will open it up to see how accurate I was.

But, I gotta tell ya.......I think I'm going to be DEAD ON on this one!!

I'll let everyone know how right I was 2morrow!

Rumor: PS3 confirmed to support Profile 1.1 and 2.0

Source: Bill Hunt from thedigitalbits.com

quote:
" Some other notes: We've learned that Sony's PlayStation 3 WILL be firmware updatable to BD-Java 1.1 compliance (expect news on this relatively soon) and likely (eventually) to 2.0 as well. "

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Am I wrong in thinking that the spec difference between 1.1 and 2.0 is simply Ethernet and 1GB or greater persistent storage?


If that is the case, PS3 will automatically be 2.0 if they get the interactivity, etc. functionality of 1.1. It has Ethernet, and all models have an HDD.

Also if that is the case, shouldn't we be concerned that Bill Hunt is not aware of how the BD Java Profiles differ ... nor the hardware design of the highest selling BD player?

Exactly. Some read a very pro-BR sentiment in the BR Festival statement. I'm seeing a poker face. Could go either way, and nobody can look back on those statements and call him a liar.

"We can definitely talk about BR. We are committed to BR." What does that mean? Committed as in you love it and want to proceed forward with it? Or committed in a contractually binding sort of way... for the next couple days?

Those statements could mean the beginning of the end for HD DVD. Or they could mean BDA knew Warner wasn't renewing their membership, but asked them to fulfill their committments to the current membership by showing up at a BDA press event and saying nice things about BR. Put off the news as long as possible to give the BDA time to keep increasing their bid, fabricate new promises about PS3 domination, etc.

No matter what happens tomorrow, NOBODY can show up here afterwards and claim they knew. If WB picks a side, half the people on this forum will be wrong, and the half that are right will still be wrong because they were only right by accident.

COOL! Interesting post and definitely within the realm of "doable" as it applys to both the contract and committment.

Interesting that he din't made another "Major Blu-ray victory" post out of this...It makes one wonder ;)

Actually he did.

Just not publicly. ;)

Merrick you are in for some dissapointing news tomorrow if you think Warner is going bluray exclusive.

Lee: How can we forget Denon? Why were they delayed?:D Wasn't there some talk about compatibility issues voiced by a senior executive from Denon?

Yes there was. Of course that issue brought a firestorm to AVS didn't it?

Have you ever see the movie TUCKER? It was based on as much fact as was available.

Remember the grand opening . . . and they were STILL working on the car right up until the curtain withdrew.

There is a real life photo snapped at that time. And it shows the Tucker women spotted with oil that shot out of the car when started.

Hmmmmmmmm . . . . .

Is that an analogy or what? The Tucker and BD.:D

The Tucker . . the most advanced automobile of it's time.

They are NOT clearancing out the A2's. Wal-Mart has stated there is no limit on the number of A2's they have to sell.

I'm confused. Isn't the A2 a 2nd player that has a 3rd gen equivalent meant to be its eventual replacement?


By definition, there is a limit to the number of A2's for sale ... because I'm pretty sure Toshiba is stopping manufacture of them, if they haven't already. It effectively is a clearance.

Jodi Salley from Toshiba just said HD DVD went up to 60% market share , probably Blu-ray 37% , dual format 3%, and thats probably EOM Sep NPD numbers.


Yah...and we know how accuarate those are......:D

I'm confused. Isn't the A2 a 2nd player that has a 3rd gen equivalent meant to be its eventual replacement?


By definition, there is a limit to the number of A2's for sale ... because I'm pretty sure Toshiba is stopping manufacture of them, if they haven't already. It effectively is a clearance.

There is only 50,000 of those 200 dollar A2's

I'm confused. Isn't the A2 a 2nd player that has a 3rd gen equivalent meant to be its eventual replacement?


By definition, there is a limit to the number of A2's for sale ... because I'm pretty sure Toshiba is stopping manufacture of them, if they haven't already. It effectively is a clearance.

There's been speculation that Toshiba kept some production lines going to supply Wal-Mart with A2s... make of that what you will.

There is only 50,000 of those 200 dollar A2's
Source?

You can't play a game and watch a movie at the same time can you? So if you are playing a game - you are not watching a movie. SAL - movies only - no dual use.

Please tell me you are joking?


Not everyone plays games 24/7. It's amazing ... but many people are able to play games as well as watch movies in a given amount of time.

I'm confused. Isn't the A2 a 2nd player that has a 3rd gen equivalent meant to be its eventual replacement?


By definition, there is a limit to the number of A2's for sale ... because I'm pretty sure Toshiba is stopping manufacture of them, if they haven't already. It effectively is a clearance.

So there is no chance whatsoever that Toshiba has/had 300,000+ A2's here in the USA for distribution?

Source?

insiders have said that for about a week.

Yah...and we know how accuarate those are......:D
You are doubting the NPD hardware numbers? :eek:

I'm assuming she is using those figures.

I guess you can pick any number you want out of the sky, but she has consistently used the NPD numbers even though she actually knows the exact Toshiba produced and ship to the channel numbers.

Didn't hear you complaining about them when Blu-ray lead briefly during the summer. :rolleyes:

There's been speculation that Toshiba kept some production lines going to supply Wal-Mart with A2s... make of that what you will.

Well, there's speculation about pretty much everything in this forum - that doesn't mean it's accurate.

Merrick you are in for some dissapointing news tomorrow if you think Warner is going bluray exclusive.

Case in point.


I wish I had the info that you do.

Please tell me you are joking?

Not everyone plays games 24/7. It's amazing ... but many people are able to play games as well as watch movies in a given amount of time.

Joking? No. I was serious. Did that bother you?:confused:

So you didn't answer my question . . . how many hours does it take to finish the average game?

Oh when you answer that question would you please answer this one . . .

How much does a PS3 BD based game cost? MSRP will do it.

Well, there's speculation about pretty much everything in this forum - that doesn't mean it's accurate.

QFT...plus what makes you guys think this will help the hd dvd camp? The 360 add on sure helped didn't it (sarcasm). Since that has come out has it helped the numbers at all?

12 hours to go!

There's been speculation that Toshiba kept some production lines going to supply Wal-Mart with A2s... make of that what you will.

Wait ... Kolgar ... is that you from neoGAF?


Double-dipping on the BD/HD-DVD threads I see! :D



I'm Onix :p

insiders have said that for about a week.
How about a link or a repaste from another site?