http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/flash.html

Trying to understand the significance of this.

DigitalLife 2008 is a trade / consumer show, that is held in NYC each year mostly as a press event , technology buzz creator, that also is a consumer showcase for hot new technologies of the year.

Last year Sony and the PS3 were dominant at the show, this year they were absent and the Xbox 360 and HD DVD were dominant .

Having attended it for the last few years I have seen it cycle a bit from being a big gaming console show to laptop consumer PDA gizmo home theater stuff event.

Last year, being held in late September Sony was in the most prominant locations with a huge presence and used the show to show off the PS3 in glass cases and had plenty of game vendors showing off their wares. The Xbox 360 had some presence but paled compared to Sony and the PS3. Toshiba was there with HD DVD in a small booth lost in the middle of the show. HD DVD PRG had the semi-trailer there, but it was at the back of the show.


This year, Sony did not have any real booth space, compared to the huge space they had last year. The Xbox 360 was all over the place and The HD DVD PRG had the semi - trailer and 10 HDTVS right in the spot Sony had last year, they were giving away copies of Bandai's Freedom I and II to people that saw the demonstration , Toshiba had a large booth where all the staff were wearing HD DVD t-Shirts and Microsoft was right next door.

The largest and most prominent and entry are placed booths were Microsoft HD DVD PRG and Toshiba.

It was almost weird that Sony, and the PS3 were absent from the show.

HD DVD did get a prominent award from Ziff Davis-as being one of the hot 5 technologies or products, but it was kinda strange that there were so prominent and that Blu-ray and even the PS3 were totally MIA.

Its like Sony did not want or could not spend the money or something, but they did not even try to compete at the show.

Anybody have any thoughts?

.

BTW, the show runs through tomorrow in NYC, if anybody wants to attend use this thread for links for free tickets.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=913017

HD DVD did win this award and was prominent at the press event on Tuesday that had over 150 credential press in attendence.

Still does not explain the PS3 and Blu-ray and the BDA being virtual no shows at the event.

another event featuring HD DVD. coincide with the launch of Halo 3 ?

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-24-2007/0004668492&EDATE=

DigitalLife Hosts 'Hot 5' Press Reception on Tuesday, September 25th

Advance Press Event to Highlight Five Marquee DigitalLife Exhibitors Prior to Show Opening

NEW YORK, Sept. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- DigitalLife, North America's leading
consumer electronics and digital technology event, today announced the 5
companies that will be featured at their special advance "Hot 5" press
reception on Tuesday, September 25th.

As the name indicates, the 5 companies have been selected to provide an early look at some of the most exciting technology that will be on display at the upcoming DigitalLife event to be held at New York's Jacob Javits Center, September 27th - 30th.

The "Hot 5" press reception will be held from 6:00pm to 8:30pm at
Splashlight Studio, 529- 535 West 35th Street (between 10th & 11th
Avenues), New York, New York. The "Hot 5" preview event is open to all
press that have pre-registered for the main DigitalLife event. Press
registration is still open at

http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/press_registration.html.

"This year's DigitalLife is a 'must see' for the press and the 'Hot 5'
gives everyone an advance look at some of the hottest products that will
debut at the show," said Paul O'Reilly, VP and GM of DigitalLife. "Over the
course of the show, DigitalLife will present a record number of new product
announcements spanning a variety of amazing technology products and
services, from computer hardware and software, to digital toys and
communication devices."

About the Hot 5

The following is a brief overview of the companies, products and
services featured at the Hot 5 event:

-- Ford Sync(TM) - developed with Microsoft - showcasing a new Ford Edge
with a fully integrated, voice-activated communications and
entertainment system.

-- HD DVD - the Alliance featuring new, next-generation post-DVD products,
setting the standard for high capacity, high definition performance.

-- Guitar Hero III(TM): Legends of Rock - featuring the much-awaited new
release in the acclaimed Guitar Hero video game series.

-- Trend Micro - unveiling new security software to protect consumer IDs
and equipment.

-- M-Audio - previewing new releases of these state-of-the-art creative
tools for consumers to create great music on their own computers.

For press information, please contact Annie_Scully@ziffdavis.com

About DigitalLife

DigitalLife - the consumer electronics and entertainment event of the
year - invites consumers of every interest and age to experience the latest
in digital technology by exploring hundreds of interactive and hands-on
exhibits geared to educate, entertain, inspire, and support adoption of the
digital lifestyle. For more information visit http://www.digitallife.com.

About Ziff Davis Media Inc.

Ziff Davis Media is a leading integrated media company serving the
technology and videogame markets. The Company is an information services
provider of technology media including publications, websites, conferences,
events, eSeminars, eNewsletters, custom publishing, list rentals, research
and market intelligence.

Sony was the sponsor of "The Digital village" but it was not a very high profile or high traffic place in the show, certainly a huge back off from last year.

http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/dl2006_video.html

Video from last year to get a taste of the event.

Its billed as the largest consumer entertainment technology show.

I was there on Thursday and was really surprised that there was not one BD player anywhere. The Microsoft keynote with their Live extender demo streaming HD all over the house, including 1080p was most impressive. Kevin Collins and the HD-DVD trailer is there also but Kevin has the Marantz projector in his home now so the demo is not nearly as impressive with an LCD screen.

Maybe they thought their "huge" presence last year wasnt worth doing again judging from their return?

Every company I have ever worked for that attended conferences/tradeshows did a very in-depth study about how much money they spent on it vs. the return they received from it.

I assume Sony could do that type of thing also.

Just a guess though.

Confusing title lead me to believe they didn't have any space there at all.

But,.. reading it through,. they didn't make as big a deal of it as they should have?

Personally,.. I've never heard of this convention or the IFA where Blu Ray did have a big showing,.. I guess I'm just out of the loop.

-Brian

Here' a map of the display area of DigitalLife 2007

Look at how prominent Microsoft HD DVD Promotion Group and Toshiba are right at the entrance.

Sony was only a partial sponsor of the PC Magazine "digital village" in the back

http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/floorplan.html

Kosty, I attended Digital Life on Thursday, the opening day and also took note of Sony's absence. Not sure why, but I would assume it may have to do with marketing budget limitations.

Digital Life is a fairly well attended show for end users and dealers so I think Sony missed out on not exhibiting. Most of the exhibitors were showing off their latest gaming consoles and software, although their was a strong showing of PCs and some very nice HD panels.

Microsoft featured their new wireless extenders for Vista that got my attention. Very nice interface, very powerful hole house audio and SD and HD video recording and distribution all wireless.

Toshiba had the largest exhibit and a large staff all waring HD DVD shirts.

-Robert

Kosty, I attended Digital Life on Thursday, the opening day and also took note of Sony's absence. Not sure why, but I would assume it may have to do with marketing budget limitations.

Digital Life is a fairly well attended show for end users and dealers so I think Sony missed out on not exhibiting. Most of the exhibitors were showing off their latest gaming consoles and software, although their was a strong showing of PCs and some very nice HD panels.

Microsoft featured their new wireless extenders for Vista that got my attention. Very nice interface, very powerful hole house audio and SD and HD video recording and distribution all wireless.

Toshiba had the largest exhibit and a large staff all waring HD DVD shirts.

-Robert



Must.............resist..............

Must.............resist..............

Resistance is futile . . . . :D

At my Best buy today all the employees had Blue shirts but that's likely un-related, no?

:D

Maybe they thought their "huge" presence last year wasn't worth doing again judging from their return?

Every company I have ever worked for that attended conferences/trade shows did a very in-depth study about how much money they spent on it vs. the return they received from it.

I assume Sony could do that type of thing also.

Just a guess though. See the above video.

http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/dl2006_video.html

Video from last year to get a taste of the event.

Its billed as the largest consumer entertainment technology show.

Last year it was partially billed as the first consumer show case comparison of the format war.

Its a big press buzz event and its a big gamer get them excited kinda thing.

Not meant for immediate results, but last year Sony sent big bucks and this year zip.

Obviously, they are prioritizing resources, but that would be news in itself if Sony would be cutting back money spent on promotional or public relations events.

Last year they spent like a drunken sailor, now this year they have to ration the money?

The lack of presence at the event by the PS3 and Sony was even noticeable by rank and file young gamers there, I heard several conversations that someone commented that it looked like Sony had just given up on the event.

It was clear from anyone who attended last year and then attended this year that Sony , the PS3 and Blu-ray were missing since they were so prominent and in your face last year.

I'm sure the press attending the event noticed too.

Microsoft featured their new wireless extenders for Vista that got my attention. Very nice interface, very powerful hole house audio and SD and HD video recording and distribution all wireless.



Robert, what is your opinion of the new extenders vs using the xbox 360 as an extender?

Perhaps just the typical arrogance,

And perhaps justified this time.

-Brian

Confusing title lead me to believe they didn't have any space there at all.

But,.. reading it through,. they didn't make as big a deal of it as they should have?

Personally,.. I've never heard of this convention or the IFA where Blu Ray did have a big showing,.. I guess I'm just out of the loop.

-BrianTitle is not confusing , it is accurate.

Sony did not have a booth.

That was what was so weird.

After having a huge one last year. Sony only had a few items on display in the "Digital Village' area sponsored by PC Magazine. They were in the guide as a co-sponser.

Sony did not have a booth.

That was what was so weird.

After having a hug one last year. they only had a few iems on display in the "Digital Village' area sponsored by PC Magazine. They were in the guide as a co-sponser.

Like I said, maybe they just didn't think it was worth it.

If this is only the 2nd one, they went all-out on the first one and found it to be not worth it. *shrug*

If it's mostly video games, could Sony be throwing M$ a bone because of it's ring of death fiasco,.. not likely eh?

-Brian

Robert, what is your opinion of the new extenders vs using the xbox 360 as an extender?

The biggest advantage is these new wireless extenders handle HD distribution.

-Robert

Like I said, maybe they just didn't think it was worth it.

If this is only the 2nd one, they went all-out on the first one and found it to be not worth it. *shrug*
I see it as indicative that Sony does not have unlimited marketing advertising and promotional funds and that bean counters are now telling people to make tough decisions.

That may be a sign that the well that Sony had been drawing from is starting to dry up.

This is a very prominent event for East Coast gamers and for the press from NYC Washington and Boston that write about technology and consumer electronics.

Last year had over 500 press attendees IIRC and over 50,000 consumers and trade walk thru at the event.

Its featured prominently for 4 days on the newscasts in the NYC tri state media markets. Its worth a lot of media impressions and is worth a lot of free advertising. NYC is a huge market, and very expensive, so free mentions are nothing to be sneezed at.

HD DVD Toshiba and Microsoft spent resources to get that free publicity and a positive buzz, Sony did that last year.

This year, Sony choose not to compete, in a way that was obvious in a way that was clear even to casual consumer attendees, and very obvious to the press, and trade people there.

Like I said, maybe they just didn't think it was worth it.

If this is only the 2nd one, they went all-out on the first one and found it to be not worth it. *shrug*

If that was their decision, they need a new marketing team. Digital Life is a very important show for Sony, BD, HD DVD and gaming in general. Their must be more to this than we know. Sony sorely missed out on this one.

-Robert

If it's mostly video games, could Sony be throwing M$ a bone because of it's ring of death fiasco,.. not likely eh?

-Brian

No. Not likely in the slightest. The "ring of death fiasco" as you put it, hasn't seemed to translate into Sony outselling Microsoft in any given month since the PS3's release in the US. So the last thing Sony would be doing is throwing Microsoft a bone.

Kosty, I attended Digital Life on Thursday, the opening day and also took note of Sony's absence. Not sure why, but I would assume it may have to do with marketing budget limitations.

-Robert

;)

A suggested Reason....

I don't know the reason but If I had to guess a little more realistically my guess would be Sony thinks the $399 Ps3's with the Spiderman 3 Blu Ray packed in are going to generate even more of a buzz then this show would have.

(Albiet at a much higher cost,.. but then .. shouldn't they be there to tell people that,.. maybe they just weren't ready? Ok,.. I give up,.. I don't know.)

-Brian

I'm serious, it was just freaky that there was no Sony or Blu-ray presence there.

I'm sure I was not the only one who noticed it too.

Well,

I could put on a Sony shirt and print up a lot of Blu Ray propoganda and attend tomorrow but it's such a long drive from here.

However, given the return on last years show,.. I just can't be bothered.

-Brian

My guess would be they don't want to answer tough questions concerning both profile 1.1 players or the Oct. 31st deadline. I really don't think we'll hear a peep about either issues until the deadline passes or is extended. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems like being short on cash is not the central cause for them missing an event like this.

No Apple either. What is this show about?

Seeing the floor plan, Microsoft + HD DVD Promo Group + Toshiba occupies 10% of it.

Well,

I could put on a Sony shirt and print up a lot of Blu Ray propoganda and attend tomorrow but it's such a long drive from here.

However, given the return on last years show,.. I just can't be bothered.

-Brian

Hilarious. Just hand out some photocopied fliers you made with Print Shop. That'll deliver the proper message.

My guess would be they don't want to answer tough questions concerning both profile 1.1 players or the Oct. 31st deadline. I really don't think we'll hear a peep about either issues until the deadline passes or is extended. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems like being short on cash is not the central cause for them missing an event like this.

So they've gone into hiding?

My guess would be they don't want to answer tough questions concerning both profile 1.1 players or the Oct. 31st deadline. I really don't think we'll hear a peep about either issues until the deadline passes or is extended. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems like being short on cash is not the central cause for them missing an event like this. That is very plausible also.

But having a "scheduling conflict" and not wanting to meet the press at an event you were all over like white on rice last year makes people wonder.

What makes it even more interesting is that Sony really used the event last year to showcase the PS3.

It seemed very unusual for them to almost completely be a no show.

It was so obvious, like a deafening silence, after their prominence at last years event.

The HD DVD PRG area was in Sony's old spot this year. With Toshiba and Microsoft right beside them.

Well,

I could put on a Sony shirt and print up a lot of Blu Ray propoganda and attend tomorrow but it's such a long drive from here.

However, given the return on last years show,.. I just can't be bothered.

-Brian

You're right: Sony can't seem to sell enough Blu-ray players to justify their marketing costs, no matter WHAT they do. :)

So they've gone into hiding?


Not at all, but the closer we get to the "new" deadline, the more it looks like the profile is going to get pushed back again. Even the sweet sounding Dennon 1.1 got delayed to Q2 '08, what caused the delay? The hardware or the profile? Those are the types of questions I wish they would answer before I personally buy into BR.

Edit: As far is 1.1 is concerned, they are in hiding. Even Sony is happy with pushing 1.0 players this holiday season, so somethings up that they really don't want to talk about.

We've all known someone who talked the big talk but when asked to show actual results, they came up short. You usually don't see much of them afterwards. This works the same way in business. Sony talked the big talk last year and this year. Now that the actual results are apparent, there is nothing they can say or do. You only get one chance at a first impression and Sony came up short with the PS3. They now have their work cut out for them if they want to regain positive public mindshare, but I am not optimistic. Unlike individuals, the general public rarely forgives these kinds of errors.

Doug

I see it as indicative that Sony does not have unlimited marketing advertising and promotional funds and that bean counters are now telling people to make tough decisions.

That may be a sign that the well that Sony had been drawing from is starting to dry up.

This is a very prominent event for East Coast gamers and for the press from NYC Washington and Boston that write about technology and consumer electronics.

Last year had over 500 press attendees IIRC and over 50,000 consumers and trade walk thru at the event.

Its featured prominently for 4 days on the newscasts in the NYC tri state media markets. Its worth a lot of media impressions and is worth a lot of free advertising. NYC is a huge market, and very expensive, so free mentions are nothing to be sneezed at.

HD DVD Toshiba and Microsoft spent resources to get that free publicity and a positive buzz, Sony did that last year.

This year, Sony choose not to compete, in a way that was obvious in a way that was clear even to casual consumer attendees, and very obvious to the press, and trade people there.

Why am I not surprised by your speculation?

If that was their decision, they need a new marketing team. Digital Life is a very important show for Sony, BD, HD DVD and gaming in general. Their must be more to this than we know. Sony sorely missed out on this one.

-Robert

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.

Why am I not surprised by your speculation?

Gee...Let's guess: You're a major blu-ray fan boy?:rolleyes:

Like I said, maybe they just didn't think it was worth it.

If this is only the 2nd one, they went all-out on the first one and found it to be not worth it. *shrug*

Maybe because Blu-ray was behind last year and this year they're ahead.

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.

And you are obviously helping to turn the tide with your "contributions."

Gee...Let's guess: You're a major blu-ray fan boy?:rolleyes:

And because you are not, you didn't expect Kosty to speculate out of his *ss? ;)

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.

Why?
because someone happens to disagree with your Pro-Sony opinion?
Here's how you guys put it, everything that Sony (and BDA) does in terms of marketing and pushing and supporting products are well done and smart but somehow when Toshiba and Microsoft spends money marketing the show wasn't worth it?
What is it? is Sony the end of all?
It's quiet funny how you guys justify every move that Sony does regardless of the context. It must be RIGHT and GOOD, because SONY does it!

And you are obviously helping to turn the tide with your "contributions."

Should I say that Sony's marketing dept is a bunch of tards? Would that be better "contribution" for you?

Why?
because someone happens to disagree with your Pro-Sony opinion?
Here's how you guys put it, everything that Sony (and BDA) does in terms of marketing and pushing and supporting products are well done and smart but somehow when Toshiba and Microsoft spends money marketing the show wasn't worth it?
What is it? is Sony the end of all?
It's quiet funny how you guys justify every move that does no regardless of the context. It must be RIGHT and GOOD, because SONY does it!

Did I say Sony made a good decision not being there? No, I speculated (and clearly stated that) that maybe they didnt feel it was worth it. So now I am all "pro-sony?"

Did I say Tosh and MS should not have spent the money?

Move along please.

So now I am all "pro-sony?"

No, that comes from the content of your other 762 posts.

At my Best buy today all the employees had Blue shirts but that's likely un-related, no?

:DBut they had on red underwear :p

For what it's worth, I agree that the two most likely reasons are:

1) They are hurting financially right now and looking to trim budgets. These shows are MASSIVELY expensive
2) The are trying to stay away from people asking hard questions right now. They don't seem to have any good answers on things like player profiles, manufacturing issues, etc.

I also agree that it is a mistake. These shows are very important in the eyes of industry watchers who will always read into a company's health and their confidence in their products based on how the campaign at these shows.

At the very least it may show that Sony and the BD camp may be "smarting" from recent setbacks.

Move along please.Hey - a school crossing guard. I didn't know you were in charge. :confused:
Must have missed the memo.

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.Whoah - learn to deal with opposing viewpoints, 'kay?

Whoah - learn to deal with opposing viewpoints, 'kay?

Whatever you say rdjam. ;)

Hey - a school crossing guard. I didn't know you were in charge. :confused:
Must have missed the memo.

That's what putting words in my mouth will get ya. A nice "move along please".

No, that comes from the content of your other 762 posts.

/yawn

Link my post that says I am "pro-Sony" please.

Just because I own one of their DVD players doesnt make them infallible in my eyes. Does Sony make some good products? yes. Do they make mistakes? yes. Do they make some bad products? yes. Do they get some things right? yes

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.

Then go away! You won't be missed! Obviously, your smarter about hi-def than everyone here. LOL

At my Best buy today all the employees had Blue shirts but that's likely un-related, no?

:D

Unrelated no, irrelevant yes.

Did I say Sony made a good decision not being there? No, I speculated (and clearly stated that) that maybe they didnt feel it was worth it. So now I am all "pro-sony?"

Did I say Tosh and MS should not have spent the money?

Move along please.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, your post history does.
Your response to Robert is basically same kind of response you gave to Filmmixer, basically trying to make fun of Robert and calling Filmmixer biased because they happen to disagree with your Pro-Blu-ray opinion.
Do you really think you are neutral? Your pro-Sony and Pro-Blu-ray bias is very obvious.
Not surprised by you guys being very touchy, that Paramount announcement was indeed tough!

I'm not putting words in your mouth, your post history does.
Your response to Robert is basically same kind of response you gave to Filmmixer, basically trying to make fun of Robert and calling Filmmixer biased because they happen to disagree with your Pro-Blu-ray opinion.
Do you really think you are neutral? Your pro-Sony and Pro-Blu-ray bias is very obvious.
Not surprised by you guys being very touchy, that Paramount announcement was indeed tough!

1. Filmmixer said he was biased.
2. no I don't think I am neutral. (I will have the Sammy player, but I don't think that makes me necessarily "neutral" :))
3. You still havent linked where I said that Tosh/MS should not have spent money on the conference.
4. Forgive me for not taking "robert's" opinion over the whole BDA's marketing dept. ;)
5. Para should have left. Any smart company would have.

Anything else?

Then go away! You won't be missed! Obviously, your smarter about hi-def than everyone here. LOL

So tempted.

But honestly, even though this site is very HD DVD biased and has actually gotten worse, besides a few worthless posters, this board tends to have some knowledgable posters and also tends to be better than alot of them out there.

I can deal with fanboys. My biggest problem is that the "insider" influence here is suffering the most. All of the insiders left are either working for HD DVD companies or WAY HD DVD biased.


It exists here, but other sites have more poo poo, your format sucks and mine doesnt.

At least here some people are more eloquent when they do it. Some HD DVD fans even have constructive arguments. The fanboy comes out in all of us at some point, but in general the posters here seem to have some intelligence (except me of course ;)).


*shrug*

There's been no mention of XBox and the release of Halo 3 this week at the show. This was a big deal where I live -- and the timing for DigitalLife sounds ideal.

Sony made a not widely discussed announcement at the start of the summer about its fall marketing budget. I don't recall the amount -- but rest assured it was a large figure. But the "strategy" is to drive home "HD DNA" across a full platform of products from cameras to home video to computers to widescreen TVs to blu-ray to game consoles where "HD" is a common thread. In other words, more about brand than specific products. That will leave less money to promote model ABC of product line XYZ; DigitalLife could easily have been a casualty of this budget process.

With TGS only a week ago, and Leipzig shortly before that, there's very little reason for Sony to push the PS3 at Digital Life, except for providing a little hands-on time for the locals.

There's been no mention of XBox and the release of Halo 3 this week at the show. This was a big deal where I live -- and the timing for DigitalLife sounds ideal.

Sony made a not widely discussed announcement at the start of the summer about its fall marketing budget. I don't recall the amount -- but rest assured it was a large figure. But the "strategy" is to drive home "HD DNA" across a full platform of products from cameras to home video to computers to widescreen TVs to blu-ray to game consoles where "HD" is a common thread. In other words, more about brand than specific products. That will leave less money to promote model ABC of product line XYZ; DigitalLife could easily have been a casualty of this budget process.

The figure for the budget was $100 million. That will pretty much tell you that Sony could have been at the show if they chose to be . . . . and they didn't.

So far - no show reports have said anything about Sony's or BD's lack of presence. I am sure next week there will be plenty of blogs that will mention it. Video Business is very good about this - they are always looking for "missing" players in the industry.

I keep seeing all the same old problems surfacing here again . . .

If there is no answer . . . . invent one!:mad:

1. Filmmixer said he was biased.
You accused of him having an Agenda. Then when he explained what eh said, you still insist of calling him biased simply because he has a different opinion than you. I don't recall you calling RBfilms biased or having an agenda. What makes RBFilms any more objective and less biased (and agenda free ofcourse) than Filmmixer?

but I don't think that makes me necessarily "neutral"
No it will not.

You still havent linked where I said that Tosh/MS should not have spent money on the conference.
Care to quote the part of my post in which I claimed you said "such thing"?
Okay I make it easy for you and quote my post here
Here's how you guys put it, everything that Sony (and BDA) does in terms of marketing and pushing and supporting products are well done and smart but somehow when Toshiba and Microsoft spends money marketing the show wasn't worth it?
I fail to see any part in which I claimed you made any statement. I said that's how you guys put it which is true indeed. You said (or speculated) that show is not worth so Sony made a wise move. What does investing in a show which has no advantage for marketing means? it means waste of money for marketing. According to you, Sony might have been better off not investing money in that show because it has no influence, where does that leave Microsoft and Toshiba? clearly meaning they wasted money getting a spot in that show.
So here's my question from you now?
Is
How you guys put it = You said it ?

Forgive me for not taking "robert's" opinion over the whole BDA's marketing dept.
and forgive me for pointing out your Pro Blu-ray and Pro-Sony bias.

Para should have left. Any smart company would have.
If it's so simple and easy to achieve, why didnt BDA do it? I mean they could do the same thing and essentially end the war. Had Paramount gone Blu-ray exclusive, the war was over indeed. I mean I can imagine those BD supporting companies have more muscle together financially than Toshiba doing things on their own. Or maybe you meant that Paramount made the right choice and chose a format that has completed spec and players, cheaper replications and players ready for Q4. In this case I agree with you; indeed it was a very reasonable business move.

Anything else?
There wasn't much to begin with so no. I lean HD DVD and I have said that many times before but unlike you I dont go around making fun of people and call people biased because they happen to disagree with me.

Gee...Let's guess: You're a major blu-ray fan boy?:rolleyes:

Attack the message, not the messenger. Take the high road. yadda yadda yadda.

Sorry Mark, I'm sure one of the mods would have gotten around to it. :D

You accused of him having an Agenda. Then when he explained what eh said, you still insist of calling him biased simply because he has a different opinion than you. I don't recall you calling RBfilms biased or having an agenda. What makes RBFilms any more objective and less biased (and agenda free ofcourse) than Filmmixer?


No it will not.


Care to quote the part of my post in which I claimed you said "such thing"?
Okay I make it easy for you and quote my post here

I fail to see any part in which I claimed you made any statement. I said that's how you guys put it which is true indeed. You said (or speculated) that show is not worth so Sony made a wise move. What does investing in a show which has no advantage for marketing means? it means waste of money for marketing. According to you, Sony might have been better off not investing money in that show because it has no influence, where does that leave Microsoft and Toshiba? clearly meaning they wasted money getting a spot in that show.
So here's my question from you now?
Is
How you guys put it = You said it ?


and forgive me for pointing out your Pro Blu-ray and Pro-Sony bias.


If it's so simple and easy to achieve, why didnt BDA do it? I mean they could do the same thing and essentially end the war. Had Paramount gone Blu-ray exclusive, the war was over indeed. I mean I can imagine those BD supporting companies have more muscle together financially than Toshiba doing things on their own. Or maybe you meant that Paramount made the right choice and chose a format that has completed spec and players, cheaper replications and players ready for Q4. In this case I agree with you; indeed it was a very reasonable business move.


There wasn't much to begin with so no. I lean HD DVD and I have said that many times before but unlike you I dont go around making fun of people and call people biased because they happen to disagree with me.



1. I repeat, read the post Filmixer said he was biased. Read ALL of it, not the part you want to.
2. Of course you didnt read the whole thread where I said I would not take RB films word that there is a difference either. (of course RB films leans the BR way) Read back. you are wrong again.
3. I STILL did not say Sony made a wise move. Wrong again
4 I STILL did not say Tosh and MS made a bad move. Wrong again
5. I am fairly certain you don't have to point out my bias. (it seems pretty evident) Just as you didnt have to point out yours.
6. What part of "Para did what they should have" do you not understand?

can you girls take this pillow fight to the PM realm perhaps?

1. Filmmixer said he was biased.

Anything else?

Yes, I did.

DEFINITION:A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective

In regards to HD DVD and BR, or this format was in general, everybody has a bias. If they own a BR player that makes them biased, which isn't an intentionally negative or damaging position.

But did I say what my bias was?

I believe I said that my experience give me a bias in regards to HDM in general.

You claim (in the now deleted post) that over 75% of my posts are pro HD DVD... show me..

You said I had an agenda, and then argued that an agenda is the same thing as bias...

Once again for the cheap seats: What is my agenda, and what is my bias, that you have so clearly pinned me down to?

All of the insiders left are either working for HD DVD companies or WAY HD DVD biased.

Here's my bias, which I don't find particularly newsworth: HD DVD is cheaper ($299 entry), has standardized networking, and has better interactivity at this point in time. Of these three, I only think HD DVD has an advantage on the cost side of things. HD DVD has not displayed, in regards to films, any deficiency in producing great audio and video..

Blu Ray has not proven any superiority over HD DVD, in my experiences, in regards to the picture and sound quality that the format can produce, even with it's higher bandwidth and space. That makes them even, in my eyes, in regards to picture and sound quality, which to me is the only really important thing (although I enjoy features and that stuff too).

This comment doesn't make me a BR hater, or an HD DVD fan boy... if that makes me way too biased, so be it.

It is my strong opinion that, in regards to film soundtracks, there will be no objective or subjective difference between a high bit rate lossy encode and PCM or lossless.

When there is a BR exclusive title, I will buy it. When there is an HD DVD exclusive I will buy it.

If it is available on both formats, I will buy the one with the better audio spec if my choice is between 640 DD+ and 1.5 DD+, which was the case with "Dreamgirls."

If there is a title that is released on both with the same video specs, I will buy which ever one is appropriate for where it will be viewed (i.e. where the kids are or where my other BR and HD DVD players are.)

Because I firmly believe that there is no technical advantage to either format, my bet is that price and titles will win this war. At this point, Sony and Disney favor BR, but I really think that the Paramount/DW deal was a big deal for HD DVD.. New Line will be powerful, and even though they are going to delay their new releases at this point in time, their library is much more valuable to geeks than their current and upcoming film line up (except for "Golden Compass"), and I think this will be a non starter.

As a side note, I find it interesting that they have always had the reputation of being on the cutting edge in their presentation, and find it "good enough" to use lossy on their titles... I know the VP of New Line home video, and I am going t see what led them to that decision (although I think I already know the anwer.)

But I digress..

Enough rambling from me... I don't hide behind an avatar (most people here know my name and my work) and the above is my opinion.. I don't find it fan boyish, anti BR or heavily pro HD DVD... I've put my money where my mouth is (I've owned an A1, AX2, XBOX HD DVD, and a A35; on the other side I have had a Panny BD10, PS3 and just got a Sammy 1400).



I tried to go back and find your response in another thread from this morning, but either you or the moderators erased it. Needless to say, you said I act "holier than thou" and then proceeded to call me an HD DVD fan boy.

Although you've only been around for four months, you get no kind of newbie pass from me.

I will no longer engage in any kind of discourse with you and hope you well wishes in your pursuit of neutrality, righteousness and objective fact.

With you attitude, me thinks you'll find it a lonely journey sitting alone in your keyboard crusade.

Good day and good riddance :cool:

The biggest advantage is these new wireless extenders handle HD distribution.

-Robert

I'm currently able to stream 1080P WMV content wirelessly from my pc to my Xbox 360 without any problems, does this extender handle more types of codecs?

Yes, I did.

DEFINITION:A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective

In regards to HD DVD and BR, or this format was in general, everybody has a bias. If they own a BR player that makes them biased, which isn't an intentionally negative or damaging position.

But did I say what my bias was?

I believe I said that my experience give me a bias in regards to HDM in general.

You claim (in the now deleted post) that over 75% of my posts are pro HD DVD... show me..

You said I had an agenda, and then argued that an agenda is the same thing as bias...

Once again for the cheap seats: What is my agenda, and what is my bias, that you have so clearly pinned me down to?



Here's my bias, which I don't find particularly newsworth: HD DVD is cheaper ($299 entry), has standardized networking, and has better interactivity at this point in time. Of these three, I only think HD DVD has an advantage on the cost side of things. HD DVD has not displayed, in regards to films, any deficiency in producing great audio and video..

Blu Ray has not proven any superiority over HD DVD, in my experiences, in regards to the picture and sound quality that the format can produce, even with it's higher bandwidth and space. That makes them even, in my eyes, in regards to picture and sound quality, which to me is the only really important thing (although I enjoy features and that stuff too).

This comment doesn't make me a BR hater, or an HD DVD fan boy... if that makes me way too biased, so be it.

It is my strong opinion that, in regards to film soundtracks, there will be no objective or subjective difference between a high bit rate lossy encode and PCM or lossless.

When there is a BR exclusive title, I will buy it. When there is an HD DVD exclusive I will buy it.

If it is available on both formats, I will buy the one with the better audio spec if my choice is between 640 DD+ and 1.5 DD+, which was the case with "Dreamgirls."

If there is a title that is released on both with the same video specs, I will buy which ever one is appropriate for where it will be viewed (i.e. where the kids are or where my other BR and HD DVD players are.)

Because I firmly believe that there is no technical advantage to either format, my bet is that price and titles will win this war. At this point, Sony and Disney favor BR, but I really think that the Paramount/DW deal was a big deal for HD DVD.. New Line will be powerful, and even though they are going to delay their new releases at this point in time, their library is much more valuable to geeks than their current and upcoming film line up (except for "Golden Compass"), and I think this will be a non starter.

As a side note, I find it interesting that they have always had the reputation of being on the cutting edge in their presentation, and find it "good enough" to use lossy on their titles... I know the VP of New Line home video, and I am going t see what led them to that decision (although I think I already know the anwer.)

But I digress..

Enough rambling from me... I don't hide behind an avatar (most people here know my name and my work) and the above is my opinion.. I don't find it fan boyish, anti BR or heavily pro HD DVD... I've put my money where my mouth is (I've owned an A1, AX2, XBOX HD DVD, and a A35; on the other side I have had a Panny BD10, PS3 and just got a Sammy 1400).



I tried to go back and find your response in another thread from this morning, but either you or the moderators erased it. Needless to say, you said I act "holier than thou" and then proceeded to call me an HD DVD fan boy.

Although you've only been around for four months, you get no kind of newbie pass from me.

I will no longer engage in any kind of discourse with you and hope you well wishes in your pursuit of neutrality, righteousness and objective fact.

With you attitude, me thinks you'll find it a lonely journey sitting alone in your keyboard crusade.

Good day and good riddance :cool:

I just thought that I would quote this again for effect. Ouch. :eek:

Woodshed, your posts are now frankly attacking the posters. Perhaps you should read the U/A and take a deep breath.

This board does not support misinformation like others out there -- if you think it makes this board "pro HD DVD," then perhaps this isn't the place for you.
This is AV Science, after all. :D

At my Best buy today all the employees had Blue shirts but that's likely un-related, no?

:D

Brian's VERY feeble attempt at humor.

Great comeback too.

Keep it up, you are SOOO funny!

I went for the first time today and found it to be boring. There was not very much focus on TV/Video. Even the HD-DVD area seemed unorganized. I really didn't see any focus on the Xbox 360 either. There were some PS3's in the videogame area with 360s. Overall, I don't think I will bother next year.

Must.............resist..............
Once a troll always a troll.
Like I said, maybe they just didn't think it was worth it.

If this is only the 2nd one, they went all-out on the first one and found it to be not worth it. *shrug*

Kosty, I attended Digital Life on Thursday, the opening day and also took note of Sony's absence. Not sure why, but I would assume it may have to do with marketing budget limitations.

Digital Life is a fairly well attended show for end users and dealers so I think Sony missed out on not exhibiting. Most of the exhibitors were showing off their latest gaming consoles and software, although their was a strong showing of PCs and some very nice HD panels.

Microsoft featured their new wireless extenders for Vista that got my attention. Very nice interface, very powerful hole house audio and SD and HD video recording and distribution all wireless.

Toshiba had the largest exhibit and a large staff all waring HD DVD shirts.

-Robert

LOL, this just in Sony has hired "robert" as their new head of marketing.

I just feel like these boards keep getting worse daily.

And because you are not, you didn't expect Kosty to speculate out of his *ss? ;)

Should I say that Sony's marketing dept is a bunch of tards? Would that be better "contribution" for you?

Did I say Sony made a good decision not being there? No, I speculated (and clearly stated that) that maybe they didnt feel it was worth it. So now I am all "pro-sony?"

Did I say Tosh and MS should not have spent the money?

Move along please.

Whatever you say rdjam. ;)

That's what putting words in my mouth will get ya. A nice "move along please".

/yawn

Link my post that says I am "pro-Sony" please.

Just because I own one of their DVD players doesnt make them infallible in my eyes. Does Sony make some good products? yes. Do they make mistakes? yes. Do they make some bad products? yes. Do they get some things right? yes

1. Filmmixer said he was biased.
2. no I don't think I am neutral. (I will have the Sammy player, but I don't think that makes me necessarily "neutral" :))
3. You still havent linked where I said that Tosh/MS should not have spent money on the conference.
4. Forgive me for not taking "robert's" opinion over the whole BDA's marketing dept. ;)
5. Para should have left. Any smart company would have.

Anything else?

So tempted.

But honestly, even though this site is very HD DVD biased and has actually gotten worse, besides a few worthless posters, this board tends to have some knowledgable posters and also tends to be better than alot of them out there.

I can deal with fanboys. My biggest problem is that the "insider" influence here is suffering the most. All of the insiders left are either working for HD DVD companies or WAY HD DVD biased.


It exists here, but other sites have more poo poo, your format sucks and mine doesnt.

At least here some people are more eloquent when they do it. Some HD DVD fans even have constructive arguments. The fanboy comes out in all of us at some point, but in general the posters here seem to have some intelligence (except me of course ;)).


*shrug*

1. I repeat, read the post Filmixer said he was biased. Read ALL of it, not the part you want to.
2. Of course you didnt read the whole thread where I said I would not take RB films word that there is a difference either. (of course RB films leans the BR way) Read back. you are wrong again.
3. I STILL did not say Sony made a wise move. Wrong again
4 I STILL did not say Tosh and MS made a bad move. Wrong again
5. I am fairly certain you don't have to point out my bias. (it seems pretty evident) Just as you didnt have to point out yours.
6. What part of "Para did what they should have" do you not understand?

Maybe the mods here are Pro BR? How else could you still be here thread crapping?

I'm probably going to take a look-see tomorrow.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=19932

Pics from Digital Life NYC 2007

Will there be a HD DVD Press Conference at DL? If so when?

Why would Sony be showing PS3 at this event when it was already at TGS, which is a much bigger and important event?

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=19932

Pics from Digital Life NYC 2007
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1214/1454361519_784fd2e4f2.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1375/1454388853_d633f3f3ab.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1455247344_fb68628472.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1096/1455255466_6bba1175a9.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1162/1454381189_baa253234f.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1084/1454384175_e9d03ef5f9.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1114/1454370517_510a0672f9.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1066/1454366387_9aa2592950.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1128/1455231524_52aa0ba100.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1223/1454385865_5f4e165b8b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1186/1455236358_3383537046.jpg
"They handed out free copies of:"
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1082/1455363616_3da5f869fc.jpg

Amazon keeps pushing back my Freedom II disc ship date. I think they gave them all away at DigitalLife :P

If that was their decision, they need a new marketing team. Digital Life is a very important show for Sony, BD, HD DVD and gaming in general. Their must be more to this than we know. Sony sorely missed out on this one.

-Robert

They announced the "top 5" or whatever items before the show opened, maybe they pulled out when HD DVD was chosen and not Blu-ray as a show of protest.

AodhFFXI this post is not directed to you, but to all who read this thread.

Look at the photos taken at this weeks Digital Life Jacob Javits, NYC Convention Center and tell me again that anyone would believe that Sony and the BDA did not make a mistake by not having any exposure at this show.

What impression do you think the attendees and press would get by seeing HD DVD very prominently presented and BD absence?

It does not take a genius to come to the logical conclusion that BD and Sony should have attended this trade show event.

Those who do not agree or understand need not apply to the top marketing job at my company.

-Robert

AodhFFXI this post is not directed to you, but to all who read this thread.

Look at the photos taken at this weeks Digital Life Jacob Javits, NYC Convention Center and tell me again that anyone would believe that Sony and the BDA did not make a mistake by not having any exposure at this show.

What impression do you think the attendees and press would get by seeing HD DVD very prominently presented and BD absence?

It does not take a genius to come to the logical conclusion that BD and Sony should have attended this trade show event.

-Robert

I whole heartedly agree that it was a mistake, don't take my comment the wrong way. We're leading into a crucial point where we have player prices and exclusivity deals (Target, etc.) coming from every direction with Warner explicitly stating they're looking towards Q4 to decide who to support (one side or both) in 2008. Sony was stupid not to be there. But when you're going to attend an event which has already declared your competitor to be one of the Top 5 products, and yours, not. Maybe they seriously thought if they pulled out it would kill the event since it's still new as some form of protest. They should have been there, and they weren't.

I took a double look at what this event is about, and holy ****.

DigitalLife is organized by Ziff Davis. Ziff Davis annnounced this contract last year.
http://www.ziffdavis.com/press/releases/060802.0.html
Ziff Davis Announces Online and Print Media Alliance with Microsoft

SAN FRANCISCO, August 2, 2006 – Ziff Davis, the prominent gaming magazine and online publisher, today announced an integrated media collaboration with Microsoft. Ziff Davis will serve as the independent editorial voice for Microsoft's Games for Windows initiative.

Then look at the advisory board of the event
http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/advisory_board.html

Mark Simons, Co-Chair
General Manager, Digital Products
Toshiba USA

Ed Chase
Senior Manager, Windows Global Event Marketing
Microsoft

What impression do you think the attendees and press would get by seeing HD DVD very prominently presented and BD absence?

This is a key point: the show is about influencing core early adopter consumers and key members of the press -- east coast press at that. Yes, of course, shows in Leipzig recently have their importance; but influencing the influencers the last week of Sep is strategically important.

It's that "big mo" thing: for a time earlier this year Blu-ray had it -- no releases of HD DVD discs, great launch sales of PS3s, many new Blu-ray products announced, a bevy of top flight releases starting with Casino Royale exclusively, Blockbuster shying away from expanding HD DVD rentals, lower prices for Sony stand-alones ... until early summer Blu-ray really had the wave.

But then it hit the wall. Paramount's announcement renouncing Blu-ray and pulling discs from the market after manufacture (Blades of Glory for example) gave everyone a reality check. Then Toshiba announced (and started to release) 3rd gen players; Venturer arrived with sub $200 players for release in mid-Q4; and Warner hinted big decisions were pending based on sales later in the year; and over-priced Combo releases were re-issued at Blu-ray equivalent MSRPs; and finally some strong HD DVD exclusive titles were announced. Suddenly the momentum had shifted sides.

And it's hard to see what will be Blu-ray's "Paramount gambit". Q4 is fixed now: it's up to the consumer (provided manufacturer's can deliver sufficient quantity into the channel). Early sales results will be touted at CES 2008 and many new announcements and pronouncements will ensue. But with the "big mo" currently on HD DVD's side, it will take dismal retail sales -- of both hardware and movies -- to bring the camps back to even steven.

In a word, Blu-ray may have peaked too early ... and PS3 simply delivered too little.

This is a key point: the show is about influencing core early adopter consumers and key members of the press -- east coast press at that. Yes, of course, shows in Leipzig recently have their importance; but influencing the influencers the last week of Sep is strategically important.

It's that "big mo" thing: for a time earlier this year Blu-ray had it -- no releases of HD DVD discs, great launch sales of PS3s, many new Blu-ray products announced, a bevy of top flight releases starting with Casino Royale exclusively, Blockbuster shying away from expanding HD DVD rentals, lower prices for Sony stand-alones ... until early summer Blu-ray really had the wave.

But then it hit the wall. Paramount's announcement renouncing Blu-ray and pulling discs from the market after manufacture (Blades of Glory for example) gave everyone a reality check. Then Toshiba announced (and started to release) 3rd gen players; Venturer arrived with sub $200 players for release in mid-Q4; and Warner hinted big decisions were pending based on sales later in the year; and over-priced Combo releases were re-issued at Blu-ray equivalent MSRPs; and finally some strong HD DVD exclusive titles were announced. Suddenly the momentum had shifted sides.

And it's hard to see what will be Blu-ray's "Paramount gambit". Q4 is fixed now: it's up to the consumer (provided manufacturer's can deliver sufficient quantity into the channel). Early sales results will be touted at CES 2008 and many new announcements and pronouncements will ensue. But with the "big mo" currently on HD DVD's side, it will take dismal retail sales -- of both hardware and movies -- to bring the camps back to even steven.

In a word, Blu-ray may have peaked too early ... and PS3 simply delivered too little.What have you expected for a Microsoft-sponsored event? They even chose it as a place to make an announcement like this.

Home invasion: Microsoft-Xbox TV is finally on the air
Vito Pilieci, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, September 28, 2007

A product many predicted would be short-lived when it was introduced seven years ago has just ushered in the era of Microsoft TV.

The Xbox 360 gaming console is a key element in today's launch by Microsoft Corp. of free, high-quality television broadcasts over the Internet.

So far, the service is available only to U.S. residents.

With yesterday's announcement, the pieces are starting to fall into place.

At the DigitalLife conference in New York City, Joe Belfiore, corporate vice-president of entertainment and devices for Microsoft's eHome division, is to announce that Americans with Windows Vista Ultimate, or Windows Vista Premium will be able to download an application that will turn their computer into a TV broadcaster.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/business/story.html?id=f1d14b2f-3b67-4e55-a6b2-568c35475c23

ofc the dying format will have to make an effort

the winning format can just sit back and watch the show

ofc the dying format will have to make an effort

the winning format can just sit back and watch the show

...maybe if it were that cut-and-dry.

...maybe if it were that cut-and-dry.

it's all in good fun

Wow, from these pics, one can tell that this was a major event. :)Really interesting that Best Buy was there and Blu-ray was a no show?
Hmmm.;)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1214/1454361519_784fd2e4f2.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1375/1454388853_d633f3f3ab.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1455247344_fb68628472.jpg

AodhFFXI this post is not directed to you, but to all who read this thread.

Look at the photos taken at this weeks Digital Life Jacob Javits, NYC Convention Center and tell me again that anyone would believe that Sony and the BDA did not make a mistake by not having any exposure at this show.

What impression do you think the attendees and press would get by seeing HD DVD very prominently presented and BD absence?

It does not take a genius to come to the logical conclusion that BD and Sony should have attended this trade show event.

Those who do not agree or understand need not apply to the top marketing job at my company.

-Robert

Sony's absence from this trade show doesn't mean that they called it quits because they feel HD DVD is the HDM victor. We all know that here. Sony must have their reasons for not attending the show. Obviously, they felt their decision wouldn't hurt them overall. Probably because most people who attend these trade shows have already invested in HDM. Sony may want to focus their attention on DVD owners who haven't thought about upgrading to HD yet.

Just my $0.02.

Wow, from these pics, one can tell that this was a major event. :)Really interesting that Best Buy was there and Blu-ray was a no show?
Hmmm.;)
Flies in the face of what my eastern Dallas county store is doing, expanding Blu-Ray shelf space and keeping HD DVD confined to the same 2 shelves. :p I need to check some other area BBs before making any kind of conclusion about it, though.

This was a major event, and Sony and Blu-ray were prominent last year, and this year they were absent. Why?

Saying they did not want to play because they did not see results, does not explain it because this show is not about generating immediate or short term sales, is all about press and on creating consumer buzz.

HD DVD was prominent, Blu-ray was not and I do not really understand why.

I have some speculation, but no one seems to come up with better ones that logically explain Sony's actions except money and not wanting to talk to the press.

Both seem not to be the complete story to me.

One issue Sony has is a mixed message that has no focus, even the HDNA as a play on HD DNA kinda means......what.....


My question remains......if this was a major event for East Coast techies and especially for the technology press and to create gamer buzz, why would Sony play it so low key and allow HD DVD to dominate the show?

On Friday afternoon and probably most of the weekend the show gets packed.

There is a heck of lot more people that attend this show than will hit the Blu-ray Disney mall show.

The free publicity is worth a lot in pseudo advertising in a very expensive media market.

I just really don't know why Sony was so low key.

Apple doesn't need to fight for the "hearts and minds" of the buying public, they already have them with the iPod and iPhone. There's no great controversy over whether you should buy an iPod or a Zen/Zune/etc, or an iPhone vs a Razr/etc - these sell themselves, and "everyone" wants them. There's no convincing to do really, no war to be fought. Sony on the other hand, really needs to push the PS3 and Blu-Ray. Sure, TGS is around the corner, but thats far from here, and while it'll be widely reported on by the gaming industry, that's not the same as letting people here touch your product. "Look, we're here, we're going to stay" doesn't just help sell PS3s to gamers if they show up at an event with PS3s. It also helps to sell the entire brand and it's associated (through BDA) brands. When you do not show up at all it really makes a negative impression. Oh, they had a gadget or two in a co-sponsored little shindig, but thats nothing in the big leagues they normally play in. Their seeming lack of commitment will plant doubt in people's minds, especially in light of the giant storm of publicity HD DVD had going for it. Sony and BDA better hope these "marketing ratios" (hehe) don't continue or they're sunk.

One thing I'm not too clear on: Were any other BDA manufacturers present, and if so did they show their own BD equipment?

Sony's absence from this trade show doesn't mean that they called it quits because they feel HD DVD is the HDM victor. We all know that here. Sony must have their reasons for not attending the show. Obviously, they felt their decision wouldn't hurt them overall. Probably because most people who attend these trade shows have already invested in HDM. Sony may want to focus their attention on DVD owners who haven't thought about upgrading to HD yet.

Just my $0.02.

Well if they already own HDM - they sure aren't buying many movies. Just check out the Paramount disc sales thread and be prepared for a real dose of reality.

HDM is not doing well . . AT ALL . . for either format.

Yes, I did.

DEFINITION:A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective

In regards to HD DVD and BR, or this format was in general, everybody has a bias. If they own a BR player that makes them biased, which isn't an intentionally negative or damaging position.

But did I say what my bias was?

I believe I said that my experience give me a bias in regards to HDM in general.

You claim (in the now deleted post) that over 75% of my posts are pro HD DVD... show me..

You said I had an agenda, and then argued that an agenda is the same thing as bias...

Once again for the cheap seats: What is my agenda, and what is my bias, that you have so clearly pinned me down to?



Here's my bias, which I don't find particularly newsworth: HD DVD is cheaper ($299 entry), has standardized networking, and has better interactivity at this point in time. Of these three, I only think HD DVD has an advantage on the cost side of things. HD DVD has not displayed, in regards to films, any deficiency in producing great audio and video..

Blu Ray has not proven any superiority over HD DVD, in my experiences, in regards to the picture and sound quality that the format can produce, even with it's higher bandwidth and space. That makes them even, in my eyes, in regards to picture and sound quality, which to me is the only really important thing (although I enjoy features and that stuff too).

This comment doesn't make me a BR hater, or an HD DVD fan boy... if that makes me way too biased, so be it.

It is my strong opinion that, in regards to film soundtracks, there will be no objective or subjective difference between a high bit rate lossy encode and PCM or lossless.

When there is a BR exclusive title, I will buy it. When there is an HD DVD exclusive I will buy it.

If it is available on both formats, I will buy the one with the better audio spec if my choice is between 640 DD+ and 1.5 DD+, which was the case with "Dreamgirls."

If there is a title that is released on both with the same video specs, I will buy which ever one is appropriate for where it will be viewed (i.e. where the kids are or where my other BR and HD DVD players are.)

Because I firmly believe that there is no technical advantage to either format, my bet is that price and titles will win this war. At this point, Sony and Disney favor BR, but I really think that the Paramount/DW deal was a big deal for HD DVD.. New Line will be powerful, and even though they are going to delay their new releases at this point in time, their library is much more valuable to geeks than their current and upcoming film line up (except for "Golden Compass"), and I think this will be a non starter.

As a side note, I find it interesting that they have always had the reputation of being on the cutting edge in their presentation, and find it "good enough" to use lossy on their titles... I know the VP of New Line home video, and I am going t see what led them to that decision (although I think I already know the anwer.)

But I digress..

Enough rambling from me... I don't hide behind an avatar (most people here know my name and my work) and the above is my opinion.. I don't find it fan boyish, anti BR or heavily pro HD DVD... I've put my money where my mouth is (I've owned an A1, AX2, XBOX HD DVD, and a A35; on the other side I have had a Panny BD10, PS3 and just got a Sammy 1400).



I tried to go back and find your response in another thread from this morning, but either you or the moderators erased it. Needless to say, you said I act "holier than thou" and then proceeded to call me an HD DVD fan boy.

Although you've only been around for four months, you get no kind of newbie pass from me.

I will no longer engage in any kind of discourse with you and hope you well wishes in your pursuit of neutrality, righteousness and objective fact.

With you attitude, me thinks you'll find it a lonely journey sitting alone in your keyboard crusade.

Good day and good riddance :cool:

Ok, since you need it spelled out

You are biased towards HD DVD. I thought, through your admission, that was fairly clear. Oh I get it, now you are probably going to claim you may be BR biased...... :D *shrug*

I said from reading your posts you were HD DVD biased. I never said 75%, nice reach.

Once again, all that are left here are HD DVD insiders. *shrug* it is what it is.

No newbie pass for me? :(

And now no more responses from you to me? What a shame. Another biased HD DVD cohort bites the dust, and I don't have to hear their replies to my posts.

Maybe somebody can summarize the press HDDVD gets from this event over the next few weeks, to measure the effect of their presence.

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users.

Maybe somebody can summarize the press HDDVD gets from this event over the next few weeks, to measure the effect of their presence.

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users.

?

In your first paragraph you are asking for a wait time to review any impact in the future.

In your second paragraph you are saying it has no impact now.

?

Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue.

In my case I have made a educated choice to favor HD DVD as the best format for the consumers, studios and the large infrastructure of existing DVD replicators.

Now on the other hand if I was strictly a business man and capitalist I would clearly vote for BD as BD players yield a much higher gross profit percent and far higher gross receipts and gross profit per unit sale.

I know as I have a good solid technical knowledge in this space and sell both platforms in very large volume. Our industry agrees that I have a leading position in this format dispute as I have been interdependently selected as a presenter and expert panelist at four HD DVD vs. BD sessions including the 2007 CES Las Vegas convention. I am interviewed by trade publications very frequently and help develop the features we are all enjoying in our systems.

-Robert

So who cares if the board is Pro- HD DVD. Everyone has a voice and an opinion - and they are frequently posted.

You want to see a Pro-BD site - just visit BD.com.

Nah, I don't want a pro-BD site. This is as "neutral" as it gets anymore. The idiot level is less here than the other "neutral" sites. That is why I come here.

And before anyone says it, I know I increased the idiot level when I registered here. :D

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users.52,000 attended last year. That's a few thousand more than "a few thousand", no?

Digital Life: What's on Tap (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2160555,00.asp)

So it is with this audience in mind that Ziff Davis Media created what has become the largest consumer show of its kind in North America: Digital Life. Last fall, it brought over 52,000 people to New York City's Jacob K. Javits Convention Center. They came to see what was new in the world of PC and CE technologies and get some hands-on experience with products that were coming out for the holidays. Although I'm an adviser to this show, as are many of the editors and columnists for PC Magazine, I really do believe that it has become one of the best shows for us industry folks. We finally have an event where we can actually see consumers' reactions to technology and, perhaps more important, get an idea about market trends

Man must be a perk of living in the big city. I would love to attend shows like this and CES and others.

That Heroes display was really sweet!!!!

Quote "Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue."

You are welcome to that conclusion. My conclusion is the HD DVD camp is under more pressure to try to push the format in light of it's failure to keep up with Blu Ray.

I originally wanted a HD DVD player because it looked like the winner but all that changed and I think the HD DVD supporters now understandably now feel obligated to try to stress the idea of the platforms viability.

-Brian

Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue.

In my case I have made a educated choice to favor HD DVD as the best format for the consumers, studios and the large infrastructure of existing DVD replicators.

Now on the other hand if I was strictly a business man and capitalist I would clearly vote for BD as BD players yield a much higher gross profit percent and far higher gross receipts and gross profit per unit sale.

I know as I have a good solid technical knowledge in this space and sell both platforms in very large volume. Our industry agrees that I have a leading position in this format dispute as I have been interdependently selected as a presenter and expert panelist at four HD DVD vs. BD sessions including the 2007 CES Las Vegas convention. I am interviewed by trade publications very frequently and help develop the features we are all enjoying in our systems.

-Robert

I think it is a combination of what you said, along with a couple other things.

1. HD DVD has a finished product, BR does not. Some people will simply not buy a BR player because of that. (even though MANY formats in the early stages werent "complete" for a couple generations, and IMO there STILL isnt a "complete" player on either side because none decode DTS HDMA)

I personally couldnt care less about PiP, but have been waiting out the "war" and decoding of all of the lossless formats. (hence the sammy combo, if it ever comes). :(

2. 1 thing I definitely think contributes is that this board has been here forever on the cutting edge of CE, and since HD had what a 2 month head start? I think many early adopters went HD DVD first just because it was here first, complete, and most still enjoy their investment. Developing love for something and disdain for something here to attempt to replace it.

3. I think the hate for all things Sony also cannot be underestimated by MANY users. (CE products/consoles) There seems to be ALOT of that here.

4. HD DVD is cheaper. (bang for the buck) No doubt about it.

Quote "Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue."


You are welcome to that conclusion. My conclusion is the HD DVD camp is under more pressure to try to push the format in light of it's failure to keep up with Blu Ray.

I originally wanted a HD DVD player because it looked like the winner but all that changed and I think the HD DVD supporters now feel obligated to try to stress the idea of the platforms viability.

-Brian

Brian, sorry but I honestly do not understand how could you dispute the 170,000 or so AVS Forum independent members overwhelming decision to select HD DVD over BD. After all they are made up of independent people, not HD DVD employees.

And in your second paragraph you say you "originally wanted a HD DVD player, but all that changed" What are your referring to when you say "all that changed", what changed? HD DVD only got better while we're still waiting for BD to get their profiles completed.

-Robert

?

In your first paragraph you are asking for a wait time to review any impact in the future.

In your second paragraph you are saying it has no impact now.

?

Read my response again. I'm saying the potential impact would be indirect, through press that comes as a result of this event. That impact has not been verified yet, but could be substantial.

There will be approximately 0.0001% impact in terms of visitors choosing that format as a direct result of the event. (because so few attend vs the overall size of the potential market)

Brian, sorry but I honestly do not understand how could you dispute the 170,000 or so AVS Forum independent members overwhelming decision to select HD DVD over BD. After all they are made up of independent people, not HD DVD employees.


Because this place just happens to be the place where all hddvd fans seem to congregate? Also, I'm not sure why you are saying overwhelming? Do you have polls that show this? For sure the most vocal users are HDDVD owners though.

Read my response again. I'm saying the potential impact would be indirect, through press that comes as a result of this event. That impact has not been verified yet, but could be substantial.

There will be approximately 0.0001% impact in terms of visitors choosing that format as a direct result of the event. (because so few attend vs the overall size of the potential market)

Why are you limiting the potential buyers to attendees? What about those that read all the articles that are coming from this show? CNET has been doing a daily has have others.

There will be approximately 0.0001% impact in terms of visitors choosing that format as a direct result of the event. (because so few attend vs the overall size of the potential market)52,000 attendees/52 million HDTV owners in US at the end of 2007 = 0.01%, not .0001%. :)

I think there were several thousand press there.

But 52,000 attendees have speaking ability (i.e. word of mouth). That's why the HD DVD truck has been criss-crossing the country. In some respects this is a lot better than a TV commercial or print ad, because attendees can see output, touch products, test features etc. In other words, get excited about the products.

Robert,

Quote "Brian, sorry but I honestly do not understand how could you dispute the 170,000 or so AVS Forum independent members overwhelming decision to select HD DVD over BD"

I don't know the membership stats but I don't believe that it can be concluded they have all chosen HD DVD. I gave my reasons for why I believe the HD DVD supporters may be more willing to try to push their product Choice.

In terms of what changed. The original Blu Ray player was faulty PQ wise,.. that changed with later players. Original Blu Ray encodes were poor, in one case "The Fifth Element" the title was actually done over and replaced for those who bought the first version. Now I see only Blu Ray at Blockbuster and Bj's and shelf space for Blu Ray doubled at Target. I've read countless reliabilty problems with HD DVD, particularly combos. And finally, yesterday at Best Buy I saw 5 models of Blu Ray player, 1 dual player, and 1 HD DVD player which looks to be like Blu Ray is making a bigger presence.

These are the changes I was refering too. My first take was HD DVD had better PQ to me which is the most important thing to me but now I know the PQ can be equal and Blu Ray has more capacity and higher bandwidth so in theory perhaps the PQ can be better on Blu.


-Brian

Because this place just happens to be the place where all hddvd fans seem to congregate? Also, I'm not sure why you are saying overwhelming? Do you have polls that show this? For sure the most vocal users are HDDVD owners though.

Sorry I did not consider the 170,000 of so members that have joined AVS over the past 10 years would turn out to mostly be HD DVD supporters. :rolleyes:

As far as the award for most vocal, I think that belongs to the BD team.

-Robert

I think Sony/BDA might also have some egg on their face over the continued saying that they had won the war.There have been numerous statements to that effect--then paramount and dreamworks bailing out--more questions they would not care to talk about.Even Beatboy has gone quiet lately.:)

Sorry I did not consider the 170,000 of so members that have joined AVS over the past 10 years would turn out to mostly be HD DVD supporters. :rolleyes:

As far as the award for most vocal, I think that belongs to the BD team.

-Robert


That actually made me LOL. Thanks :D

Robert,
In terms of what changed. The original Blu Ray player was faulty PQ wise,.. that changed with later players. Original Blu Ray encodes were poor, in one case "The Fifth Element" the title was actually done over and replaced for those who bought the first version. Now I see only Blu Ray at Blockbuster and Bj's and shelf space for Blu Ray doubled at Target. I've read countless reliabilty problems with HD DVD, particularly combos. And finally, yesterday at Best Buy I saw 5 models of Blu Ray player, 1 dual player, and 1 HD DVD player which looks to be like Blu Ray is making a bigger presence.

These are the changes I was refering too.

-Brian

Brian, the combo issue was fixed with a firmware upgrade.

Regarding player support, consider Toshiba's advancement and development with their third generation line up. Toshiba has developed a total of eight players and have solutions starting with a street price of under $250. This year we'll see many more HD DVD and as you pointed out even more dual format players add to the selection.

And talk about what matters the most, content, consider, Paramount, Dreamworks and Dreamworks animation just joined Universal as exclusive HD DVD studios.

HD DVD players perform very well and even those user who purchased back in April 2006 have clearly benefited by:

1. All players are compatible with all advanced features like connectivity and PIP.

2. Early adopters have enjoyed, at a reasonable cost, viewing true HD for a year and a half.

3. Even Gen 1 players have been supported with frequent advancements in features and fixes through firmware updates.

I like companies that are dedicated to continued support for their equipment.

-Robert

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users.

True, unfortunately right now they need to fight over thousands. That's the reality. Every customer counts when we are talking about the market penetration currently experienced.

If a major retailer puts a player on sale and 10,000 units are sold because of it, the war can be shifted. It's that finite right now.

For this reason, I think missing this event will cause some damage to BD. Maybe small. Maybe large.

Remember.. HDM will be a word-of-mouth adoption. Just like DVD. If 2,000 people go and tell their friends "the future is HD-DVD" -- word gets around fast.

Remember.. HDM will be a word-of-mouth adoption. Just like DVD. If 2,000 people go and tell their friends "the future is HD-DVD" -- word gets around fast.

Ok, you've sold me. It's all about word of mouth. Whichever format gets the most exposure wins.

If that's the case than the 2,000 at that trade show will pale in comparison to the thousand upon thousands of J6Ps renting DVDs at the majority of Blockbusters, and seeing the HD shelves stacked with Blu-ray.

Seems to me they'd figure out that "the future is Blu-ray"...


Again, all this bickering is pointless...HD DVD and Blu-ray are here to stay for a while. Get used to it. Just enjoy your HD movies.

Ok, you've sold me. It's all about word of mouth. Whichever format gets the most exposure wins.

If that's the case than the 2,000 at that trade show will pale in comparison to the thousand upon thousands of J6Ps renting DVDs at the majority of Blockbusters, and seeing the HD shelves stacked with Blu-ray.


Last year 52,000 people attended Digital Life and the press coverage reached many tens of thousands more interested individuals.

Further the higher box office dollars HD DVD titles enjoy help support HD DVD advantages.

-Robert

Apple doesn't need to fight for the "hearts and minds" of the buying public, they already have them with the iPod and iPhone. There's no great controversy over whether you should buy an iPod or a Zen/Zune/etc, or an iPhone vs a Razr/etc - these sell themselves, and "everyone" wants them. There's no convincing to do really, no war to be fought. Sony on the other hand, really needs to push the PS3 and Blu-Ray. Sure, TGS is around the corner, but thats far from here, and while it'll be widely reported on by the gaming industry, that's not the same as letting people here touch your product. "Look, we're here, we're going to stay" doesn't just help sell PS3s to gamers if they show up at an event with PS3s. It also helps to sell the entire brand and it's associated (through BDA) brands. When you do not show up at all it really makes a negative impression. Oh, they had a gadget or two in a co-sponsored little shindig, but thats nothing in the big leagues they normally play in. Their seeming lack of commitment will plant doubt in people's minds, especially in light of the giant storm of publicity HD DVD had going for it. Sony and BDA better hope these "marketing ratios" (hehe) don't continue or they're sunk.

One thing I'm not too clear on: Were any other BDA manufacturers present, and if so did they show their own BD equipment?One thing I'm not too clear on: Were any other BDA manufacturers present, and if so did they show their own BD equipment Not at all.

I looked and if any where there they were in a corner somewhere.

I do not think any Blu-ray CE manufacturers were showing there wares.

HD DVD was right at the entrance, Blu-ray was MIA.

http://www.digitallife.com/newyork/exhibitors.html

infraction issued: some guys need to stop fighting on every forum here if you want to remain AVS members

Maybe somebody can summarize the press HD DVD gets from this event over the next few weeks, to measure the effect of their presence.

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users. I agree the press meme is key. But the impact is two fold beyond the press feeding.

First this event has 50,000 plus rabid first adopter very engaged gamer and geeky electronic gadget people attending. They often are decision leaders and affect a lot of other people.

The other factor is that this is free advertising in the metropolitan New York City / New Jersey / Connecticut media market being it is a nicely featured local story on the local television stations and has local new special reports on it.

I was in my hotel at night and saw a segment on on of the NYC broadcasts that featured HD DVD at the show for a few minutes. A 30 sec commericial in that market if ridiculously expensive. A few dedicated minutes featuring HD DVD in prime time, is PR gold.

That often is media market gold and is more effective than a 30 second commercial in its impact in that market.

The NYC tri stat market is huge, and is very expensive to advertise in, so every bit helps.

HD DVD got that free publicity this year, and Blu-ray did not.

Ok, you've sold me. It's all about word of mouth. Whichever format gets the most exposure wins.

If that's the case than the 2,000 at that trade show will pale in comparison ...Maybe somebody can summarize the press HD DVD gets from this event over the next few weeks, to measure the effect of their presence.

To the end-user, the fact that BD did not attend has no damage what so ever. A few thousand attending? The HDM market wants to fight over millions (or hundred of millions) users.
50,000 plus attendees last couple years, more expected this year because the weather was very nice in NYC

...HDM is not doing well . . AT ALL . . for either format.

...1. HD DVD has a finished product, BR does not...
2. ... Developing love for something and disdain for something here to attempt to replace it.
3. I think the hate for all things Sony also cannot be underestimated by MANY users. (CE products/consoles) There seems to be ALOT of that here.
4. HD DVD is cheaper. (bang for the buck) No doubt about it.

To normal ppl, most of these posts are a joke. We all just read this BS for entertainment. I'll assume y'all constantly hear some reality from J6P on the street: "It's like VHS vs Betamax; I'll wait for a winner."

So, that means: "HDM is not doing well <period>" #1, #2, #3 & #4, do not matter.

Re Sony haters, just a few years ago, I was a Sony fan and a MS basher (I'm a software/firmware engineer.) MS has impresses me with being credible with what they have posted hear, even though they continue to squash competition by bundling. Sony has not been credible with BD BS, they do not acknowledge product problems (see LCD clouds) and they did a root kit!

Bottom line - Sony is not going to quit and Sony/MGM will be BD exclusive no matter what Warner does. HD-DVD has enough going to survive. Anyone with money that wants to place a bet, let me know and I'll find a gambling site.

PS, keep at it Woodshed, we need at least one on each side to enjoy fanboy bashing. Opps, I mean an inteligent debait (sorry Mark.)

To normal ppl, most of these posts are a joke. We all just read this BS for entertainment. I'll assume y'all constantly hear some reality from J6P on the street: "It's like VHS vs Betamax; I'll wait for a winner."

So, that means: "HDM is not doing well <period>" #1, #2, #3 & #4, do not matter.

Re Sony haters, just a few years ago, I was a Sony fan and a MS basher (I'm a software/firmware engineer.) MS has impresses me with being credible with what they have posted hear, even though they continue to squash competition by bundling. Sony has not been credible with BD BS, they do not acknowledge product problems (see LCD clouds) and they did a root kit!

Bottom line - Sony is not going to quit and Sony/MGM will be BD exclusive no matter what Warner does. HD-DVD has enough going to survive. Anyone with money that wants to place a bet, let me know and I'll find a gambling site.

PS, keep at it Woodshed, we need at least one on each side to enjoy fanboy bashing.

Did you or did you not see the charts in the Paramount thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915978&page=5

Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue.

In my case I have made a educated choice to favor HD DVD as the best format for the consumers, studios and the large infrastructure of existing DVD replicators.

Now on the other hand if I was strictly a business man and capitalist I would clearly vote for BD as BD players yield a much higher gross profit percent and far higher gross receipts and gross profit per unit sale.

I know as I have a good solid technical knowledge in this space and sell both platforms in very large volume. Our industry agrees that I have a leading position in this format dispute as I have been interdependently selected as a presenter and expert panelist at four HD DVD vs. BD sessions including the 2007 CES Las Vegas convention. I am interviewed by trade publications very frequently and help develop the features we are all enjoying in our systems.

-Robert

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound.

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound. ROFLMAO :D :rolleyes: :eek:

Thanks for being directly on topic there. :rolleyes:

And this explains in what way the fact that Sony and Blu-ray was a virtual no show at DigitalLife 2007 and that HD DVD was very prominant at that show?

Can we come to the conclusion that if AVS Forum is bias towards HD DVD vs. BD that this is a clear indicator of the free thinking advanced HT enthusiasts of the largest user forum may just understand what this format entails and have made an informed decision on this very well debated issue.

In my case I have made a educated choice to favor HD DVD as the best format for the consumers, studios and the large infrastructure of existing DVD replicators.

Now on the other hand if I was strictly a business man and capitalist I would clearly vote for BD as BD players yield a much higher gross profit percent and far higher gross receipts and gross profit per unit sale.

I know as I have a good solid technical knowledge in this space and sell both platforms in very large volume. Our industry agrees that I have a leading position in this format dispute as I have been interdependently selected as a presenter and expert panelist at four HD DVD vs. BD sessions including the 2007 CES Las Vegas convention. I am interviewed by trade publications very frequently and help develop the features we are all enjoying in our systems.

-Robert

You are joking right. Enough people get tired of being attacked for choosing a different format that they go to another forum, and the ones left are the " free thinking informed enthusiasts". Get real.:rolleyes:

You are joking right. Enough people get tired of being attacked for choosing a different format that they go to another forum, and the ones left are the " free thinking informed enthusiasts". Get real.:rolleyes:You seem to be going in the other direction - 20 posts between yesterday and today. Which forum did you come from?

You seem to be going in the other direction - 20 posts between yesterday and today. Which forum did you come from?

look at my join date.:rolleyes:

I would love to keep doing what I always did, but it's hard when 3-4 people crap on a thread because it says something positive about another format. Pretty sad actually. Can't we all just get along.:D

You are joking right. Enough people get tired of being attacked for choosing a different format that they go to another forum, and the ones left are the " free thinking informed enthusiasts". Get real.:rolleyes:

Your right! Lets all go to Blu-ray.com where if anyone so much as says anything against the Holy Blu, they get banned! At least this forum is open to all and if you can't take the heat in the kitchen...you sir need to get real!;)

Your right! Lets all go to Blu-ray.com where if anyone so much as says anything against the Holy Blu, they get banned! At least this forum is open to all and if you can't take the heat in the kitchen...you sir need to get real!;)

I have no problem with legitimate debate. But can you honestly call 75% of what goes on here debate? More like mob rule.

Perhaps just the typical arrogance,

And perhaps justified this time.

-Brian

How is arrogance ever justified? Did you really mean confidence? Being self-assured is different from being arrogant. Arrogance usually implies inner uncertainty or self-doubt. Arrogance is a way of disguising one's own vulnerability. People who are truly self-confident don't have to put on this sort of outer appearance. They tend to be more laid back and relaxed precisely because of their inner confidence. Just a footnote to your comment.

Last year 52,000 people attended Digital Life and the press coverage reached many tens of thousands more interested individuals.

Further the higher box office dollars HD DVD titles enjoy help support HD DVD advantages.

-Robert

I think Sony spent lots of their PR money in the beginning and are now having to budget more carefully.

Toshiba started more slowly, and now they are picking up steam.

BDA went for the quick win; HD DVD is in it for the long haul.

Now the BDA wants more time, needs more time to figure out how to make the same specs work on diverse players.

BDA has gone from a sprint mentality to a marathon mentality, and they don't have the funds to resolve all the red ink.

Blu-ray is probably saving money for a holiday blitz, and it remains to be seen whether reality will outstrip appearance -- that is, whether playback deficiencies of BD 1.0 players will offset hype about having the "most advanced features."

But their reduced presence at the show means they intend to spend their advertising dollars elsewhere, which is usually another way of saying that advertising dollars are limited.

Webphilo,

Interesting read,.. lots of speculation but interesting anyway.

-Brian

Webphilo,

Interesting read,.. lots of speculation but interesting anyway.

-Brian

I agree..

I think it will be a telling time when we see what the numbers are for "Spiderman" vs. "Transformers.."

And the numbers for Harry Potter and Blade Runner may help to clarify this situation...

This Q4 will really show how the studio exclusivity factor is shaping up this race, and will be really representative about how software is helping to sell hardware... we saw how well "300" did on BR, and I bet the numbers for "SM" will be higher since it won't be available on HD DVD.

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound.

While I think that last statement is false as a fact, or flawed as an objective viewpoint, let's say I agreed with it?

It won't matter.... this war will be won (if it survives) based on convenience, features and cost.. quality is not the overriding concern in making a product like this successful, numbers are.

While we at AVS put our time and effort into making both of these formats better, and hoping that they live up to their potential, we also must remember that even when we get a victory (i.e. getting Sony to go with TureHD with no dialnorm, etc.) it will go unnoticed by the hordes of less knowledgeable consumers that will decide if there will be a clear victor in this battle by voting with their pocketbooks.

I'm still of the firm belief this will remain a niche product as on-demad and IPTV forms of distribution take hold, and products like Apple TV, Xbox 360 and the PS3's IPTV services, etc... will be the future, not physical media.

Your right! Lets all go to Blu-ray.com where if anyone so much as says anything against the Holy Blu, they get banned! At least this forum is open to all and if you can't take the heat in the kitchen...you sir need to get real!;)

This is not Blu-Ray.com and what goes on there has nothing to do with here. Go troll in another area. Maybe all the HDDVD fanboys need to start there own site and quit ruining this one.

I think Sony spent lots of their PR money in the beginning and are now having to budget more carefully.

Toshiba started more slowly, and now they are picking up steam.

BDA went for the quick win; HD DVD is in it for the long haul.

Now the BDA wants more time, needs more time to figure out how to make the same specs work on diverse players.

BDA has gone from a sprint mentality to a marathon mentality, and they don't have the funds to resolve all the red ink.

Blu-ray is probably saving money for a holiday blitz, and it remains to be seen whether reality will outstrip appearance -- that is, whether playback deficiencies of BD 1.0 players will offset hype about having the "most advanced features."

But their reduced presence at the show means they intend to spend their advertising dollars elsewhere, which is usually another way of saying that advertising dollars are limited.

Anyone saying "well the Sony well ran dry" is clueless they have plenty of money and if they wanted to take out full page ads every day for the rest of the year in USA TODAY they could!

There will be approximately 0.0001% impact in terms of visitors choosing that format as a direct result of the event. (because so few attend vs the overall size of the potential market)

Yet the expected 50,000 (presuming no growth this year), equates to approx 10% of either sides standalone player owners.

To be honest i find the 50,000 attendes to be rather small (we get that many at tradeshows with in a city of only 350,000 residents). Though I'd expect the 500 press probably carry more weight than the rest of public combined, and would be the main focus for exhibitors.

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound.

Please show us proof where even ONE official from Toshiba has said they now realize 30gb isn't enough? It amazes me what some people will say with 0 proof.

I can only speak for myself, but I've enjoyed each and every HD DVD I've seen so far. I haven't noticed anything faulty with the pic or audio quality. As far as the sales go, time will tell. It's about a lot more than sales numbers, and I think those will tighten up soon. Then what will you tout? BD doesn't have much left to crow about, they hoped they would have killed HD DVD by now and they sure didn't. They sure said it enough, though, but it just goes to show you crowing usually just ends up making you look silly in the end if you can't back it up. HD DVD is here to stay, get used to it. You can go on and on about how "desperate" they are, as their sales grow and more people enjoy affordable high definition.

Please show us proof where even ONE official from Toshiba has said they now realize 30gb isn't enough? It amazes me what some people will say with 0 proof.

I can only speak for myself, but I've enjoyed each and every HD DVD I've seen so far. I haven't noticed anything faulty with the pic or audio quality. As far as the sales go, time will tell. It's about a lot more than sales numbers, and I think those will tighten up soon. Then what will you tout? BD doesn't have much left to crow about, they hoped they would have killed HD DVD by now and they sure didn't. They sure said it enough, though, but it just goes to show you crowing usually just ends up making you look silly in the end if you can't back it up. HD DVD is here to stay, get used to it. You can go on and on about how "desperate" they are, as their sales grow and more people enjoy affordable high definition.

If your satisfied with 30gb why chase after 51gb?

But I agree with you, their sales are growing. It's just Blu-Rays are growing at least as fast.

If your satisfied with 30gb why chase after 51gb?
Because they can?

Why are you limiting the potential buyers to attendees? What about those that read all the articles that are coming from this show? CNET has been doing a daily has have others.

Is this not exactly what I said in both posts? Any positive effect would be through press (obviously then causing people to buy hddvd). I'm saying attendees won't have any measurable effect, yes probably more lie .01% like someone else said :)

Is this not exactly what I said in both posts? Any positive effect would be through press (obviously then causing people to buy hddvd). I'm saying attendees won't have any measurable effect, yes probably more lie .01% like someone else said :)

There is no show that has a "measurable" effect on people buying CE products unless there is some super duper brand new announcement about something that is available that week. I don't care what show it is.

Anyone see any "impact" after IFA? or CEDIA?

Any impact is always from how the media writes about the show and the products shown. Most of the shows are for the press and the retailers that will actually sell the merchandise. If they are not sold - the product is still born at the show.

Just like TV advertising. It just helps the cause and keeps the name fresh in the consumers mind so that when they are ready - they will remember . . up to a point. And that point is the opening of the wallet or just before hand - sticker shock . . if any.

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound.

Well, first it's NOT quite 2:1 and no body is desperate right now. Second HD DVD is now using VC-1 while BD is still on the mpeg2 kick. Third... what difference is the 50 gig disk going to make if studios are going split disks anyway... look at the movie Alexander... it's split onto 2 disks.

But more to the point, there's a bit of a stale-mate going on right now. Have you noticed that the Nielson numbers have been pretty CONSISTENT week after week? It's because the same group of people are doing the buying. There is no movement going on because new consumers are not signing on...on EITHER side... so no one is winning anything right now.

And this desperation you talk about... are you serious??? Less than a handful of people (relative to the DVD industry) have signed on to hi definition disks. There is still a HUGE untapped market so the 1.7:1 that exists for blue ray is a total drop in the bucket.

In my opinion.... blu ray has for the moment peaked. It's the PS3 that has been driving BD thus far and these sales will at some point level off (if it hasn't started leveling off already), and BD PLAYER sales have not exactly been what one would describe as super... and you more than likely won't see prices drop a whole lot for Christmas... or much in the way of 1.1 players.

And BTW... that 1.7:1 lead that BD has... how come it's only 1.7:1 when BD hardware (including the PS3) is more like 6:1??

Because this place just happens to be the place where all hddvd fans seem to congregate? Also, I'm not sure why you are saying overwhelming? Do you have polls that show this? For sure the most vocal users are HDDVD owners though.

i disaggree! Firstly, there is a reason why HD DVD owners are more vocal. You can guess why ;)

secondly, majority of the Blu-ray player owners are not HT enthusiast. They are gamers who talk about the BD console gaming and game console forums and at BD.com. HD DVD is for HT and lots of HD DVD owners are here! Its that simple

this event has 50,000 plus rabid first adopter very engaged gamer and geeky electronic gadget people attending

Holy cow! Not the sort of person I want to run into in a dark back alley! :p

If I cast my mind back to around 1990/91 and the semi-annual COMDEX shows, Apple was fiercely staking out its 6 year old "windowed" computing Macintosh; Microsoft was tuning up Windows 3.0 and getting ready to launch 3.1; UNIX also had a gui front end; and IBM, of course, smugly felt everyone would adopt OS/2. COMDEX was a huge computer event in its day -- all the press were there, lots of influencers in corporate IT, and consumers and many other industry folk.

One year Apple was a major presenter; next year it didn't bother to show up except in co-sponsoring a couple of other vendor booths. Microsoft Windows was everywhere that event and people wondered why Apple gave it a miss. Within a few years: Macintosh OS had disappeared having adopted UNIX and then Macintoshed it; Apple's percentage of Windowed computing went from 50% to 5%; IBM gave up on OS/2. I told everyone I knew at the time that Windows had won the OS wars for a generation and this event was the proof. Why? Because the hall was full of developers showing tools to make Windows software; gadgets which added on to computers running Windows to make them do other stuff; and a string of solutions for IT and middleware folk providing a distribution channel.

I'm not saying DigitalLife is delivering the same watershed message as Comdex Spring 1991, but it does, from this distance, have something of a feeling of déjà vu about it. Unless Blu-ray can figure out a message that mainstream consumers resonate with as to why its technology is fundamentally a better choice for them, HD DVD will walk away with this, and probably decisively in 2008. Because cost of entry matters most, assuming equal reliability, capability and distribution. The arguments about content are much too early to hold as each format has more juicy content than any normal consumer can afford anyway.

There were also a large passle of people showing off network storage solutons and things you could do with WIndows Vista media extenders and the like.

Lots of developers thinking that hitching a ride with Windows Vista and networking and storage and streaming media and HD DVD optical was a good thing.

I miss Comdex in Las Vegas, and Internet World in NYC Chicago and Boston. ;) 'dem were da days.... :D

i disaggree! Firstly, there is a reason why HD DVD owners are more vocal. You can guess why ;)

secondly, majority of the Blu-ray player owners are not HT enthusiast. They are gamers who talk about the BD console gaming and game console forums and at BD.com. HD DVD is for HT and lots of HD DVD owners are here! Its that simple

Yeah, I can guess why.:D

And the second part of your post sounds like it would fit right in on a gaming forum.:rolleyes:

Ok, you've sold me. It's all about word of mouth. Whichever format gets the most exposure wins.

If that's the case than the 2,000 at that trade show will pale in comparison to the thousand upon thousands of J6Ps renting DVDs at the majority of Blockbusters, and seeing the HD shelves stacked with Blu-ray.

Seems to me they'd figure out that "the future is Blu-ray"...


I agree. Most people I talk to think Bluray is the way to go. The "false advertising" by Sony (see 5/8 movies thread) has caused many people to believe Bluray is the only choice. Unfortunately for them, the HD-DVD camp hasn't resorted to a "negative marketing campaign" such as Sony. If so, we'd be seeing ads from HD-DVD saying "If you buy a Bluray player today, it won't be able to play 5/8 discs come 2008" :)

I think HD-DVD has the players at the right price. They now need to spend their money on advertising and subsidizing retailers to stock more media. I would suggest offering say 2-5 discs of each titles on consignment. Once the consumer is able to walk into a store and see that HD-DVD actually has an even -- if not more -- showing of titles... cheaper players... and the VERY SAME PQ....... they have a great chance of ripping the rug out from underneath BDA.

I think many retailers saw the sales figures from the PS3 -- more Bluray discs being sold -- that they now continue to stock 2/3rds BD vs. HD-DVD.. which results in 2/3rds BD vs HD-DVD sales... basically an endless circle.

My impression is HD-DVD is becoming desperate. What other choice do they have with the Nielson numbers coming out every week proving they are getting smacked in software sales at a 2:1 ratio. Not to also mention they now realize that 30GB are not enough to provide top notch quality picture and sound.

When was the last time it was 2:1? Many weeks have passed where it's been more like 1.5-1.7. That's not 2:1. If anything, HD-DVD had was at it's worst months ago and in the past month has gained market share.

If your satisfied with 30gb why chase after 51gb?

But I agree with you, their sales are growing. It's just Blu-Rays are growing at least as fast.

..so that when the consumer is in the store deciding on which format to choose... the sales rep can say "they are both the exact same except HD-DVD is 1/2 the price!" :)

It's all about taking away BD's "selling points" one by one. Which I believe is darn near done now. Oh yeah.. there's always bitrate.. try to let Mr. Best Buy explain that to a family of four.. and then show them the price difference.

Anyone saying "well the Sony well ran dry" is clueless they have plenty of money and if they wanted to take out full page ads every day for the rest of the year in USA TODAY they could!

source?

How big is Digital Life expo compared to CEDIA, CES, CEATEC and IFA?

I went once but never again. Aside from gaming and few fringe apps, there's no reason to go. What a waste of time!

Unfortunately for them, the HD-DVD camp hasn't resorted to a "negative marketing campaign" such as Sony.

So what's with all the "HD DVD leads in hardware in Europe by 70%" that the HD DVD Promotions Group has done? Is that not "false advertising" by failing to include an asterisk with a line saying "*does not include the 1,440,000 Blu-ray playback enabled PLAYSTATION 3 hardware units sold in Europe since March 2007"

I went once but never again. Aside from gaming and few fringe apps, there's no reason to go. What a waste of time!

Thanks Kal, that's pretty much what I thought.

..so that when the consumer is in the store deciding on which format to choose... the sales rep can say "they are both the exact same except HD-DVD is 1/2 the price!" :)

It's all about taking away BD's "selling points" one by one. Which I believe is darn near done now. Oh yeah.. there's always bitrate.. try to let Mr. Best Buy explain that to a family of four.. and then show them the price difference.


Odds are if he's selling to a family of four all he has to say is " Disney's on Blu-Ray".:D

So what's with all the "HD DVD leads in hardware in Europe by 70%" that the HD DVD Promotions Group has done? Is that not "false advertising" by failing to include an asterisk with a line saying "*does not include the 1,440,000 Blu-ray playback enabled PLAYSTATION 3 hardware units sold in Europe since March 2007"

Ah . . since when did the rest of the world become Europe?

Did Australia and Indonesia and China become part of EU? I thought it's been about 900 million years since that happened::rolleyes:

http://www.vgchartz.com/

Odds are if he's selling to a family of four all he has to say is " Disney's on Blu-Ray".:D

Which would turn into a very awkward moment when they ask him to show them where the Disney BR titles are on the shelf.

Jungle Book 40th Anniversary - October 2 - DVD ONLY

The fam isn't going to pay $500 for a BR player to watch Disney DVDs.

Which would turn into a very awkward moment when they ask him to show them where the Disney BR titles are on the shelf.

Jungle Book 40th Anniversary - October 2 - DVD ONLY

The fam isn't going to pay $500 for a BR player to watch Disney DVDs.

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha
Eight Below
POTC 1,2,3

Granted these aren't Fantasia, but Disney's released a few films on Blu-Ray.:rolleyes:

So what's with all the "HD DVD leads in hardware in Europe by 70%" that the HD DVD Promotions Group has done? Is that not "false advertising" by failing to include an asterisk with a line saying "*does not include the 1,440,000 Blu-ray playback enabled PLAYSTATION 3 hardware units sold in Europe since March 2007"

Did they specifically say hardware or stand alone player sales? There is a huge difference. If we are talking anything capable of playing BD... then that's a different story. We should also then include the millions of Toshiba, Acer, and HP notebooks with standard HD-DVD players built in.

Odds are if he's selling to a family of four all he has to say is " Disney's on Blu-Ray".:D

And not a single classic cartoon (or even new cartoons) at that. They didn't even release the new Jungle Book on BD. Hardly a selling feature.

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha
Eight Below
POTC 1,2,3

Granted these aren't Fantasia, but Disney's released a few films on Blu-Ray.:rolleyes:

Gee . . a bunch of catalog tiltles with a few new movies.

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha
Eight Below
POTC 1,2,3

Granted these aren't Fantasia, but Disney's released a few films on Blu-Ray.:rolleyes:

So as for kids movies:

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha

Wow! 7 children's movies! "Where do I pay for this player that's twice as much as the HD-DVD one?"

Disney has to do better than that to become "the choice of families with children"

source?

You want someone to show you how much money Sony has.... Your funny.....

And not a single classic cartoon (or even new cartoons) at that. They didn't even release the new Jungle Book on BD. Hardly a selling feature.

I'll look for the posts, but alot of you HD DVD guys like say no one watches those old cartoons. So which is it? Ratatouille is I believe new, I could be wrong:rolleyes: but...

When has Disney ever rushed there classics out?

Gee . . a bunch of catalog tiltles with a few new movies.

Yeah, just like EVERY other studio.:rolleyes:

So as for kids movies:

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha

Wow! 7 children's movies! "Where do I pay for this player that's twice as much as the HD-DVD one?"

Disney has to do better than that to become "the choice of families with children"

OK fanboys who many classic movies of Disney were on dvd when you bought your first dvd player........? Yeah I thought so

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha
Eight Below
POTC 1,2,3

Granted these aren't Fantasia, but Disney's released a few films on Blu-Ray.:rolleyes:


Why the eye rolling? FEW is the key word in your post, and precisely my point. A very valid point in response to a post suggesting that Disney's vast library of titles on BR is a selling point to families.

My mother-in-law lives with us and is a die-hard collector of Disney movies. If Disney's support was actually more than a logo on BR advertisements, I'd probably be getting pushed to get a player. But when I show her the list of current titles, their refusal to put their classics on the format, and the entry price, she doesn't think it's worth it.

So as for kids movies:

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha

Wow! 7 children's movies! "Where do I pay for this player that's twice as much as the HD-DVD one?"

Disney has to do better than that to become "the choice of families with children"

Only about $75 difference at Best Buy and Circuit City. But when your spreading FUD, whats a few dollars?:rolleyes:

Oh unless your counting that poormans 1080i player. Try selling that to a Mom buying for her kids. "What, you don't think my kids are worth 1080p":D

Why the eye rolling? FEW is the key word in your post, and precisely my point. A very valid point in response to a post suggesting that Disney's vast library of titles on BR is a selling point to families.

My mother-in-law lives with us and is a die-hard collector of Disney movies. If Disney's support was actually more than a logo on BR advertisements, I'd probably be getting pushed to get a player. But when I show her the list of current titles, their refusal to put their classics on the format, and the entry price, she doesn't think it's worth it.

Thats right, Disney's the only studio that's supposed to dump their library in the FIRST year of a new format.

So as for kids movies:

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha

For interests sake I've bolded the titles that have actually been released.

OK fanboys who many classic movies of Disney were on dvd when you bought your first dvd player........? Yeah I thought so

Back then, DVD was the ONLY format. Now there is two. One might live, both might live, both might die...who knows.

I wouldn't compare DVD sales to either HD DVD or Blu-ray...as DVD would have the MAJOR lead.

Geez, people. Disney chose to be Blu-ray exclusive. Just accept it. Quit nitpicking at every move they make.

If they rushed their classics out on Blu-ray without any painstaking negative restoration, you'd be on their case about that.

Relax. Disney knows precisely what they're doing.

You'll just have to have the patience to find out what that is.

"If you buy a Bluray player today, it won't be able to play 5/8 discs come 2008" :)

You talk about Sony's negative campaigns against HD DVD; however, you make statements like this that qualifies as a smear campaign itself.

There's no proof that this will happen, yet you state this like it's fact. Give Sony some credit to their ingenuity.

Seems to me that you and a lot of HD DVD supporters are trying to manufacture a new Y2K dilemma. And we know how that turned out.

How big is Digital Life expo compared to CEDIA, CES, CEATEC and IFA? Not in the same league.

Lots more booth and those are shows not readily open to consumers, although its not like it tough to claim a trade affiliation and get in.

DigitalLife is designed to be a consumer showcase as well as a press event.

CEDIA is much bigger and CES takes up all the display Las Vegas can offer.

CEDIA is the home theater play area and CES is, well CES with every gizmo imaginable.

Both those shows are worth a plane flight and expensive hotel rooms for the week.

DigitalLife is worth a day long car trip and possible overnight stay if you have business there.

Chicken Little
Dinosaurs
The Wild
Cars
Meet The Robinson's
Ratatouille
Bridge To Terabitha
Eight Below
POTC 1,2,3

Granted these aren't Fantasia, but Disney's released a few films on Blu-Ray.:rolleyes: Thats exactly the point. Its not even Jungle Book level support from the mouse so far.

OK fanboys who many classic movies of Disney were on dvd when you bought your first dvd player........? Yeah I thought so

And your point would be? That just confirms the point that "families will pick BD because of Disney kids movies" is moot.

There aren't many.

And your point would be? That just confirms the point that "families will pick BD because of Disney kids movies" is moot.

There aren't many.

The point is if they even have a passing interest in Disney, They won't touch HD DVD.

Geez, people. Disney chose to be Blu-ray exclusive. Just accept it. Quit nitpicking at every move they make.

If they rushed their classics out on Blu-ray without any painstaking negative restoration, you'd be on their case about that.

Relax. Disney knows precisely what they're doing.

You'll just have to have the patience to find out what that is.

I don't think ANY HD-DVD supporters really care at this point. Except of POC series, there really isn't ANYTHING released by Disney.

It would bother the supporters much more if it was another studio that choose to be exclusive.. a studio that actually released more than a handful of titles.. a studio like say... Paramount...


:)

The point is if they even have a passing interest in Disney, They won't touch HD DVD.

They likely won't touch either. Not at those family friendly prices.

You talk about Sony's negative campaigns against HD DVD; however, you make statements like this that qualifies as a smear campaign itself.

There's no proof that this will happen, yet you state this like it's fact. Give Sony some credit to their ingenuity.

Seems to me that you and a lot of HD DVD supporters are trying to manufacture a new Y2K dilemma. And we know how that turned out.

I think you should have quoted my entire post before saying I am "making statements". I was giving an example.. something HD-DVD.. if they wanted to play Sony's game.. could easily do.. but rather.. they take the moral high road and let their product speak for itself. Sony realizes the only way they can sell their product is to put fear into the consumer.

I wouldn't give Sony a penny of my money on any hardware. I already made that mistake twice.

I don't think ANY HD-DVD supporters really care at this point. Except of POC series, there really isn't ANYTHING released by Disney.

It would bother the supporters much more if it was another studio that choose to be exclusive.. a studio that actually released more than a handful of titles.. a studio like say... Paramount...


:)

Ratatouille Domestic Total as of Sep. 27, 2007: $203,116,517

The fact of the matter is, there aren't many families buying HDM at Best Buys right now.

HDM is still primarily a niche market.

By the time they're ready, Disney should have a respectable Blu-ray catalogue.


This format war won't be decided before Christmas 2008.

They likely won't touch either. Not at those family friendly prices.
Yeah, can you imagine it they were released on both formats and then they noticed that the HD DVD copy cost $5.00 more because the need to add an inferior 480p version of the movie in the case.

Ratatouille Domestic Total as of Sep. 27, 2007: $203,116,517

"Shrek the Third" has taken in $320 million at the domestic boxoffice and $400 million internationally. - As of August 7, 2007.

We can play this game all day.

I was pointing out that with a handful of titles and no interest in releasing new ones (aka Jungle Book), Disney's exclusivity is a non-issue for HD-DVD supporters. If they were pushing 6-10 titles a month consistently.. then maybe you'd have a case.

I find it funny that two of the major exclusive BD studios.. Fox and Disney release diddly.

Yeah, can you imagine it they were released on both formats and then they noticed that the HD DVD copy cost $5.00 more because the need to add an inferior 480p version of the movie in the case.

Unhuh. And then said.. hey... we can use this in the cottage, car, kids room, friends house... it's like.. why buy a second DVD at $24.99 when I can get it included for only $4.99 more!

My six year old has been demanding that I replace all of her Disney DVDs with Hi-def versions, because she's obsessive about PQ over all else. She says she'll take care of the new one's as if they were hers, and not leave them lying around on the floor, so they won't get stepped on, and the dog can't chew on them. Should I indulge her?

My six year old has been demanding that I replace all of her Disney DVDs with Hi-def versions, because she's obsessive about PQ over all else. She says she'll take care of the new one's as if they were hers, and not leave them lying around on the floor, so they won't get stepped on, and the dog can't chew on them. Should I indulge her?

Go for it! Buy her all 7!

My six year old has been demanding that I replace all of her Disney DVDs with Hi-def versions, because she's obsessive about PQ over all else. She says she'll take care of the new one's as if they were hers, and not leave them lying around on the floor, so they won't get stepped on, and the dog can't chew on them. Should I indulge her?

My 7yo would watch VHS if the cartoon was to his liking.

Go for it! Buy her all 7!

She's also grumpy about the fact that they'll only play in the HT. Should I replace all of the DVD players in the house ( including the one in her room ) with Blu? It would only cost about 2k to do that. She's really careful with the equipment, well, except for that one time with the peanut butter......oh well, easy come, easy go. What's five hundred bucks if she breaks it?





please tell me you guys aren't taking this seriously

Go for it! Buy her all 7!

anotheraviator: lighten up. We all know your views on HD DVD superiority and Disney's Blu-ray exclusivity, but you don't have to jab Blu-ray supporters when they ask for advice.

"Shrek the Third" has taken in $320 million at the domestic boxoffice and $400 million internationally. - As of August 7, 2007.

We can play this game all day.

I was pointing out that with a handful of titles and no interest in releasing new ones (aka Jungle Book), Disney's exclusivity is a non-issue for HD-DVD supporters. If they were pushing 6-10 titles a month consistently.. then maybe you'd have a case.

I find it funny that two of the major exclusive BD studios.. Fox and Disney release diddly.

Of course it's a non-issue, you can't have them.:rolleyes:

If your satisfied with 30gb why chase after 51gb?



to shut BDA off so that the whole world can live in peace and quiet

anotheraviator: lighten up. We all know your views on HD DVD superiority and Disney's Blu-ray exclusivity, but you don't have to jab Blu-ray supporters when they ask for advice.

I sensed the fact he was being sarcastic. I was playing along. But someone else has already pointed out, there are only 7 childrens titles released on BD by Disney. So I wasn't lying.

:D


She's also grumpy about the fact that they'll only play in the HT. Should I replace all of the DVD players in the house ( including the one in her room ) with Blu? It would only cost about 2k to do that. She's really careful with the equipment, well, except for that one time with the peanut butter......oh well, easy come, easy go. What's five hundred bucks if she breaks it?

please tell me you guys aren't taking this seriously

I sensed the fact he was being sarcastic. I was playing along. But someone else has already pointed out, there are only 7 childrens titles released on BD by Disney. So I wasn't lying.

:D

How many childrens movies are currently released on HD DVD? how many g or pg rated movies that are animation and Don't say Shrek because I won't let my 3 year old watch that, its way to crude... she has manners!

How many childrens movies are currently released on HD DVD? how many g or pg rated movies that are animation and Don't say Shrek because I won't let my 3 year old watch that, its way to crude... she has manners!

Very good point.

There are only a handful of children titles available in both formats.

How many childrens movies are currently released on HD DVD? how many g or pg rated movies that are animation and Don't say Shrek because I won't let my 3 year old watch that, its way to crude... she has manners!

Although I'm not really a "kids movie fan" yet (no kids yet) I do know the following flicks are already RELEASED on HD-DVD. Some are exclusive and others I know are available on both formats like Happy Feet and Ant Bully.

Ant Bully
Corpse Bride
Happy Feet
How the Grinch Stole Christmas
The Polar Express
Scooby Doo
TMNT

Now hopefully with Dreamworks we will see their catalog releases!

Over the Hedge, Flushed Away, Wallace & Gromit, Madagascar, Shark Tale, Shrek 1 & 2, Antz etc.

If they are anything like Paramount.. we will see those releases very soon.

I was also very surprised by Sony's lack of presence. I was looking for them to see some projectors (last year they had the pearl, and I was hoping to see the black pearl this year) and maybe try a few PS3 games I was thinking about buying.

Them not being there definitely costs them sales. Perhaps its not worth it to them in the end. I don't think they needed as big of a booth as they had last year, but they needed somthing. At digital life 2 years ago HD-DVD had a very small presece, but they were there. Last year I would say it was about equal, but more of the other booths had Blu-ray running in there setups like HP, and others. This year those booths that had blu-ray running switched over to HD-DVD's.

I don't know what they are thinking, but I do think it was a mistake. They didn't need to be as big as they were last year, but they should be there. Maybe they didn't want to spend what it cost to do last year, but didn't want a smaller presence because it would make them look bad. . . I don't know.

52,000 attendees/52 million HDTV owners in US at the end of 2007 = 0.01%, not .0001%. :)

I think there were several thousand press there.

But 52,000 attendees have speaking ability (i.e. word of mouth). That's why the HD DVD truck has been criss-crossing the country. In some respects this is a lot better than a TV commercial or print ad, because attendees can see output, touch products, test features etc. In other words, get excited about the products.

C'mon! How can this possibly compete with a Disney BD tour visiting 6 (or is it nine?) malls?;)

Its interesting the people that went there had much the same thoughts that I did.

They're going to be using the money with their Christmas marketing campaign?

I doubt it's a financial issue, they probably just allocated the money to a different place that they felt was more important this year. I think Sony's big move this year is a 40 gig PS3 for $399.99, not a real big "news" deal. The money is probably better spent on ad-space for the lower priced console than attending the show. As for the games, a lot of them have been delayed until 2008 since their showing at CES this year.

Also I don't think it's any secret that the HD-DVD platform has been planning a big push for this holiday season all year long, So it's not very surprising to me at all.

As for Apple, they usually do their own events.

What have you expected for a Microsoft-sponsored event? They even chose it as a place to make an announcement like this.


http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/business/story.html?id=f1d14b2f-3b67-4e55-a6b2-568c35475c23

Well now that's a whole other ballgame there. Now we're talking about content on demand as opposed to HD DVD formats. And it is a possibility that content delivery of this sort could trump both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD for content delivery if it's done correctly, (though I doubt it will be).

My biggest problem with the Xbox 360 as a media center is the requirement for the WMV format, and even with the update you can download to display iTunes Podcasts, it won't display "all of them", only the ones using the right format. And unfortunately Mpeg 4 is not one of those formats. (sigh). An easy example of this issue is the Tikibar TV podcast (which works) vs. the Jamie Oliver Podcast (Which doesn't) yet according to the update ALL iTunes podcasts are supposed to be supported... Apparently not...

Apple doesn't need to fight for the "hearts and minds" of the buying public, they already have them with the iPod and iPhone. There's no great controversy over whether you should buy an iPod or a Zen/Zune/etc, or an iPhone vs a Razr/etc - these sell themselves, and "everyone" wants them. There's no convincing to do really, no war to be fought. Sony on the other hand, really needs to push the PS3 and Blu-Ray. Sure, TGS is around the corner, but thats far from here, and while it'll be widely reported on by the gaming industry, that's not the same as letting people here touch your product. "Look, we're here, we're going to stay" doesn't just help sell PS3s to gamers if they show up at an event with PS3s. It also helps to sell the entire brand and it's associated (through BDA) brands. When you do not show up at all it really makes a negative impression. Oh, they had a gadget or two in a co-sponsored little shindig, but thats nothing in the big leagues they normally play in. Their seeming lack of commitment will plant doubt in people's minds, especially in light of the giant storm of publicity HD DVD had going for it. Sony and BDA better hope these "marketing ratios" (hehe) don't continue or they're sunk.

One thing I'm not too clear on: Were any other BDA manufacturers present, and if so did they show their own BD equipment?

True, of course Apple has a completely different philosophy as well. They believe in making what the consumer wants to buy, instead of attempting to force the consumer into buying the product because it has exclusive studio support.

Now that said I've never bought a song off of iTunes and I never will until all of their songs are DRM free and offer a near-lossless encoding option, but I digress. My apologies.

Another thing it reminded me of was the HT Expo. A few years ago Sony had a LARGE presence. They had multiple rooms and they were showing the Qualia 004 before it was released. It was such a hit they were handing out tickets and everything, and had a large waiting list.

The following year I think they weren't there at all.

Maybe Sony likes making a big splash and then determines that it just isn't worth it again for some reason.

i disaggree! Firstly, there is a reason why HD DVD owners are more vocal. You can guess why ;)

secondly, majority of the Blu-ray player owners are not HT enthusiast. They are gamers who talk about the BD console gaming and game console forums and at BD.com. HD DVD is for HT and lots of HD DVD owners are here! Its that simple

Maybe, remember that 99% of the people that will (hopefully) eventually own hdm, are not going to be vocal about the format anyways. We are a weird bunch of people....

The 2007 DigitalLife 2007 Event Set A New Attendance Record - 54,700 (1300 Press)


New York, October 11, 2007 – DigitalLife, Ziff Davis Media’s consumer technology and entertainment event, registered a new attendance record during its recent four-day run at the Jacob K. Javits Center in New York City.

Over 54,700 press, analysts, VIPs and consumers visited the show from September 27-30, 2007.

More than 175 sponsors and exhibitors occupied over 250,000 square feet, featuring the latest in digital technology products and services.

A strong feature of this year’s show was the number of major new product announcements and press events[/COLOR][/B].

“We are delighted with the industry’s response to DigitalLife”, said Monica Vila, Vice President, Ziff Davis Media.

“With over 1,300 press in attendance, the show has become the leading Fall platform for unveiling the latest digital innovations, as well as showcasing the hottest products that are already available in the stores.”


HD DVD dominated the event and had real estate in the most prominent locations, including the HD DVD Promotion Group, Toshiba and Microsoft.

Sony had no booth and Blu-ray presence was pretty much absent.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/10-11-2007/0004680253&EDATE=