Hi,

Which of these do you feel would best suit my needs? I'm using a fairly old 26" standard TV. It does not have HDMI connections or even an S-video connection I believe. It is not HDTV or anything like that.

I can get both units for the same price so that is not a concern for me. What I want to do is record sports events because I am in school a lot and I rarely am home during the games. I just want the one that would be best for my setup and what I want to do. I don't care much about the VCR and will probably never use it but I do care about the digital tuner quality and the ability to set recordings for the future and have decent quality working copies that I can watch when I have free time. The games are hockey and football. I need the recordings to be about 3-4 hours. Any insights? Thank you!

I wouldn't buy an LG, just from the comments I've read in posts here.

To be honest, you could probably save $$$ by hooking up your current VCR to an input jackset on the DVD recorder. From there, you could get a Samsung DVD-AR650 or Panasonic DMR-EZ17k for less than a DVD recorder/VCR combo.

Thank you for the replies guys. I don't even need the VCR feature but I can get a great deal on the LG model for $180. However, it if is horrible quality, then I don't even want to waste any money on it. The Samsung also seems to have a lot of issues (from what I've read on the whole thread about it here) so are there any better recommendations for what I want to do?

I don't want to spend more than $200 (unless I really have to but it's a birthday present so that's pushing it), I'm hooking it up to an older analog TV that is running digital cable from comcast, and I want to record mostly fast moving pictures such as football and hockey that appear on digital cable channels. I don't care about extra features, I just want it to be able to do the basic things well. Extras are nice like EPG, and chase, but not required. Any suggestions? Thanks again!

The Samsung DVD-AR650 is supposed to have a nice EPG that you can even use to set recordings through, but that's only with OTA. You didn't mentioned what kind of source you had, but since you mentioned hockey, I'm guessing it's more than just OTA.

I would recommend something with DVD-RAM capability, because then you'll have what basically amounts to a small hard drive. And if you ever upgrade your display to a widescreen model, DVD-RAM will let you record and play in full 16:9 widescreen.

I think the Sammy has that, and I know the Panny's do. The Panny's are excellent recorders.

I will not be using only OTA. I will be using comcast digital cable. Which Pan. models would you recommend for what I'm doing? I've read a lot of reviews on the panasonics and they all say that they have a tendency to freeze and miss recordings because of it. I definitely do not want that problem.

I will not be using only OTA. I will be using comcast digital cable. Which Pan. models would you recommend for what I'm doing? I've read a lot of reviews on the panasonics and they all say that they have a tendency to freeze and miss recordings because of it. I definitely do not want that problem.There are a few people here with DMR-EZ17 models that haven't had any problems.

You have to remember - the majority of people posting here are the ones who are having problems. People generally don't post just to say how well a machine is working for them.

Now, if you were culling this info from various, respectable sources, I would give it a bit more weight.

I just kind of dissed the LG's because there were one or two people here that work for electronics stores, and they said that they get a lot of them back for repairs and returns. They said they were flimsier than most and not very well-made. I also know that they only have composite inputs.

If you're not concerned with the internal tuner, you can still find last year's Panny ES15 for a good price (only an NTSC tuner). It doesn't get too many bad reports and is a well-established model. Most people love theirs. People have been finding them at Sears stores going for $30.00 - $75.00. And the Panny's in general have excellent recording quality on all but the lowest mode. Another good thing about them is that they have traditionally been about the least sensitive (along with Pioneer) to copyguarded programs. The Sony's are probably the worst.

I don't know. All models are gonna have their share of bad units. If you can get such a great deal on an LG, it will still be better than some cheapo brand. I just tend to stay away from most Korean-made stuff if I can. It's never had that good of a reputation, and LG/Zenith/Goldstar/Insignia separately haven't been regarded well for many years. Samsung would be the exception that I would take a chance on. They're a completely differeny company, and have gotten much better in recent years. And even before, they were better regarded than the LG conglomerate. My Sammy DMR-H260F ATSC/QAM tuner is a very nice unit, and their plasmas have certainly improved immensely. And they've always made excellent LCD's (and very good DLP's).

Ok sounds good. I'm starting to believe that a Panasonic would be best for me as I do have HBO and the lax copyrighting would be nice. I also have a friend that initially recommended Panasonic to me but I read reviews about the freezing issues and whatnot off of the circuit city website so I ventured away from his idea. My next question then is what is the difference between the Panny ez17 and ez27? Anything as far as recording quality? I only have composite (analog tv) currently but I may upgrade in the future. Thanks once again.

The EZ27 adds HDMI out. I believe this is the only difference. The same difference between the EZ37 and the EZ47 - both combo units. The EZ47 has the HDMI output when compared to the EZ37.

Having had both the Samsung AR650 and the LG DR787T (same as 797 wo/VHS), I can say that the LG is most definitely the better choice. There were a couple of problems with the Samsung that EVERYONE had, not just a few people.

The worst one is that if it loses the signal, once it gets back it only tunes in sound without picture, and only way to fix it is to change to another channel and then change back. The other problem was with its inability to stretch 4:3 material, which on a standard TV showed up in a smaller 4:3 frame with black bars all around. I also don't think anyone ever managed to get it to set a recording from the EPG. Also if I remember correctly, the Samsung does accept RAM discs, but without chase play, I think it basically treats it as a -RW.

I tried probably 10 different recorders and finally kept the LG, but I can't say I'd recommend it for your purposes. I kept it because it was the only ATSC recorder I could find a region hack for, it has a 12bit 108 Mhz DAC convertor, etc.

I think its major drawbacks for your use might be more than its advantages. I think it has a very strict copy protection management. It has refused to record many things from even the most unbeliavable channels like Oxygen. I think its very likely it won't let you record any premium content. The other thing I am not happy about is that it doesn't have auto clock set so if the power goes out, all programmed timer recordings will be messed up. And of course it doesn't have anything better than plain coaxial inputs.

If you're not using OTA than the digital tuner doesn't even matter. The LG does come with a remote blaster to change a cable or sattelite box, and is also fully compatible with RAM discs.

I don't know, but if you're not going to use the ATSC tuner, I'd suggest looking into those last year RCA models with a hard drive. I've seen them at Walmart for the same price you were going to pay for the LG. There is a long thread on that model on here - DRC8030N or something like that.

Having had both the Samsung AR650 and the LG DR787T (same as 797 wo/VHS), I can say that the LG is most definitely the better choice. There were a couple of problems with the Samsung that EVERYONE had, not just a few people.

The worst one is that if it loses the signal, once it gets back it only tunes in sound without picture, and only way to fix it is to change to another channel and then change back. The other problem was with its inability to stretch 4:3 material, which on a standard TV showed up in a smaller 4:3 frame with black bars all around. I also don't think anyone ever managed to get it to set a recording from the EPG. Also if I remember correctly, the Samsung does accept RAM discs, but without chase play, I think it basically treats it as a -RW.

I tried probably 10 different recorders and finally kept the LG, but I can't say I'd recommend it for your purposes. I kept it because it was the only ATSC recorder I could find a region hack for, it has a 12bit 108 Mhz DAC convertor, etc.

I think its major drawbacks for your use might be more than its advantages. I think it has a very strict copy protection management. It has refused to record many things from even the most unbeliavable channels like Oxygen. I think its very likely it won't let you record any premium content. The other thing I am not happy about is that it doesn't have auto clock set so if the power goes out, all programmed timer recordings will be messed up. And of course it doesn't have anything better than plain coaxial inputs.

If you're not using OTA than the digital tuner doesn't even matter. The LG does come with a remote blaster to change a cable or sattelite box, and is also fully compatible with RAM discs.

I don't know, but if you're not going to use the ATSC tuner, I'd suggest looking into those last year RCA models with a hard drive. I've seen them at Walmart for the same price you were going to pay for the LG. There is a long thread on that model on here - DRC8030N or something like that.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about the Panasonic EZ27? I was looking into that because of some recommendations (this thread and other outside sources). Do you have any experiences with it? If so, would you recommend that one or the RCA? I hope I don't sound indecisive but I just want the best one for what I'm doing and I'm really new to this whole arena so I'd rather ask people that know what they're talking about.

My friend suggested that I use the tuner. I have comcast digital cable with a set top cable box so I don't know if I should use the tuner (I'm guessing it would give me some extra channels that I don't currently get and a little better quality picture although I'm really new to this so I don't really know). What is your suggestion? :)

EDIT: Ok I just looked at the walmart website and apparently the rca is no longer available. I would prefer to buy something in a store so that if there is a problem I can just take it back directly. That being said, what do you think of the Panny?

You would definitely get better picture quality out of the downscaled HD recordings than from the cable box at native 480i. You'd have to split the coax, with one end going straight into the recorder, to use it's tuner, and the other end going to your cable box. Then, you'd just hook up the cable box to a line input of the recorder through composite (or s-video, if you have it) to watch and record the other, digital channels.

I see that either BB or CC has the EZ27 on sale this week (I forget which). It's a bit over two bills. HDMI is just a straight digital connection that will allow you to upscale to 1080 or 720p from the recorder. All HD displays will upscale on their own, but depending on the quality of each, the recorder's scaler may be better. Or not.

There's no need to split the cable since the coax input on the recorder is a direct pass-thru of the cable feed, so it's a splitter already. You can accomplish the same as a split by connecting the coax to the DVDR first, then continuing the coax out to the cable box, and you won't need the DVDR on to watch TV thru the box. Connect the line inputs for recording from the box.

Either method will work the same way, but you avoid the dB loss from the splitter by daisy-chaining.

With either method, you'll only be able to watch/record separate shows if the DVDR receives clear channels on its own. When you record something from the box, however, both tuners will be tied up doing the recording...cable box on the channel and DVDR tuner on the line input...so no watch/record separately. You will be able to play a show already recorded on the DVDR or a DVD while it's recording from the cable box.

Both methods assume you don't have all your channels scrambled...if you do, you can't use the DVDR tuner so just connect only the line inputs for recording from the box.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about the Panasonic EZ27? I was looking into that because of some recommendations (this thread and other outside sources). Do you have any experiences with it? If so, would you recommend that one or the RCA? I hope I don't sound indecisive but I just want the best one for what I'm doing and I'm really new to this whole arena so I'd rather ask people that know what they're talking about.

My friend suggested that I use the tuner. I have comcast digital cable with a set top cable box so I don't know if I should use the tuner (I'm guessing it would give me some extra channels that I don't currently get and a little better quality picture although I'm really new to this so I don't really know). What is your suggestion? :)

EDIT: Ok I just looked at the walmart website and apparently the rca is no longer available. I would prefer to buy something in a store so that if there is a problem I can just take it back directly. That being said, what do you think of the Panny?


I have never had a Panasonic recorder for a couple of reasons - one, they never have region hacks, and two, until these new models they always looked very ugly to me (shallow!). That said, I see no reason why the EZ27 won't work great, except that they've gone back to 10 bit 54Mhz DAC, which I don't understand.

The RCA model has not been on their web site for a long time now, but I still see it in the stores, so if you find one it won't hurt to try. The ATSC tuner might give you a better recording, but from cable you'll only be able to get the local stations, and maybe one or two more, but the cables companies are catching up to this and it's less and less likely. I don't even get all my locals anymore. You will not get more channels from the recorder than your cable box, that's for sure. Only time you might get more is if you only have basic cable. For the non-digital cable channels an analog tuner will do just fine, although you don't necessarily need it. The only real advantage I see to a recorder with tuner if you have a cable box, is that you might be able to record one thing while watching another.

You don't have to tell me about being indecisive! Why do you think I went through about 100 recorders before I kept one? That's why I think the best thing to do is just get the one you think will be best, try it, and if you're not happy just take it back and try something else. But for your purposes I do think a hard drive model will have a lot of advantages. If you can afford another $100 get the Philips 3575, if not I'd look for left over RCA, or maybe that other Polaroid with ATSC tuner, but it's getting horifying reviews.

A couple of months ago I was in a similar situation as you... tring to decide on the LG or a Panny... it came down to IR Blaster vs. Connection issues... I went with what I thought was the lesser of the two evils...

I have had the LG and have had any real problems... however when changing the channel there is a delay of a second or two that can be annoying... If your gonna use the RAM you may want to do a few trial runs first... I made a couple of Bone Head mistakes... I haven't used RW's or R's yet... the Video quality is good too, considering... as for the recording of certain channels, it is my understanding that you can purchase something for that problem... If you can get the LG for 180, I say why wait...

However I did noticed that BB and CC pulled it off their websites, just recently... A rumor in here says because of no VChip... who knows I haven't found anything outside of here... but I think for what you want it for and it has an IR Blaster... the main reason I opted against the Panny...

I too don't have a lot of time and needed the machine to do that extra bit of work for me... I upset quite a few Panny people last time, so this time I'm just gonna keep the smart azz remarks to myself...

Good Luck and Happy Hunting...

Ok so then what I want to know is if I decide that the tuner on the panny ez27 isn't working for me (not being able to view other channels while recording may be an issue as I share the TV with 3 other people) can I just bypass the tuner using the cable box and record what I want without having to worry about people changing the channels?

Ok so then what I want to know is if I decide that the tuner on the panny ez27 isn't working for me (not being able to view other channels while recording may be an issue as I share the TV with 3 other people) can I just bypass the tuner using the cable box and record what I want without having to worry about people changing the channels?

I am not sure I entirely understand the question, but here's what I think you're asking...

If you are using the cable box, you will not be using the tuner in the DVD recorder (unless of course you feed the recorder through the RF antenna input, which is the worst possible quality). So here's what happens:

cable box ---> dvd recorder your cable box is what tunes in the desired channel. If someone changes the channel on the cable box, the recorder will start recording the new channel.

To watch one channel while recording another you need 2 tuners - one in the cable box, one in the recorder. Then your cable line will have to go from the wall first into the recorder, and then from the recorder's RF out into the cable box. In this set up you can watch one channel and record another BUT, you'll only be able to record whatever channels the DVD's tuner can receive - that is analog plus unscrambled digital cable, which most likely means your local channels in digital.

Not sure how clear my explanation was, hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Thanks for the explanation. I think it answers my question pretty well, please tell me if this is correct: The channels that I am MAINLY concerned about recording are like fox and nbc for football games (possible ESPN for the occasional MNF game), Fox Sports Bay Area, Fox Sports Bay Area Plus, and Versus. Fox and Nbc are obviously regular local stations, FSN and FSN plus I believe would be considered local digital channels. Espn, Versus, and HBO have a good likelihood of not being recorded it seems but those are less of a concern than the others. Is this right or are only Fox and NBC considered local digital stations? I could get the LG for cheaper but it has been recalled so I don't know if they'll sell it to me. Plus I don't think I want to purchase a product that's been recalled anyways.

FOX and NBC are local digital (I think local are only the NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS affiliates and usually the only ones on clear QAM), and most likely the only ones your DVD recorder will have to be able to tune in with its QAM tuner. I'ver recorded from ESPN without problems before, but only the analog version (I've never had a digital cable box, so not sure if the HDESPN might have some extra encryption), ESPNHD you'll most probably only be able to receive with the cable box, same for the other channels you mentioned.

I wouldn't worry too much about the LG recall, it sounds more like technicality in regulations than quality problem. Does anyone really ever use V-chip parental control?

So are you saying that the other channels will probably only come in with my cable box and I won't be able to record those channels? If so then I do not want one with a tuner. The absolute most important channel that I care about recording is FSN bay area and FSN plus. I could really care less about any other channels but those are the channels that 85% of my sharks hockey games come on :). What would be a reliable dvd recorder that would still have a good picture and be able to record these channels? I can just use my cable box if thats how the digital tuner is gonna work.

I think you guys are just confusing him more.

First off - opivyattack - you just have standard definition digital cable, right? Your cable box is digital, but doesn't receive the HD channels, right?

You just need to find a good recorder first. Then you can come back here and we can guide you through how to hook it up and use it the best possible way.

By the way, the Panny EZ27V is on sale at Best Buy (I was just there today) for only $229.00. If you can find the EZ17V cheaper, you could always go with that. Whatever you do get, it would probably be good to have DVD-RAM capability and HDMI out if you want to use it with an HD set later. But those aren't really necessary for what you need right now.

You don't need the built-in tuners right now, but it would still be good to have them available in case you ever do want to use them. You should get a better picture on your local channels using the QAM tuner than if you record them from your cable box. But you still need the cable box to receive all of the other digital channels you're paying for.

With the recorder's QAM and analog (NTSC) tuners, you can tune in the local (SD & HD) digitals, but if you get any of the other channels, they will only be in analog. The digital versions of those analog channels should look noticably better as digital coming from your cable box, so you'll still want to keep the cable box.

You don't have to bother using the QAM tuner to receive and record the locals if you don't want to - you are already getting them through your cable box. You can just hook up the cable box and record everything from that and be done with it. It would be simpler if you don't really want to get more involved.

But if you want to go for the little bit better quality of the downscaled locals that the QAM tuner can receive, and watch and record those instead, we will tell you everything you need to know to do that.

But just concentrate on getting the recorder first. It doesn't have to have any built-in tuners, but like I said, it's always good to have them because you might want to use them someday. There are really not a lot of tunerless models out there, anyways. Most of the ones available are DVD/VCR models.

Great. Thanks! I'm just going to start with the Panny ez27 and hopefully that will fill all of my basic needs. They don't sell that ez17 in stores in any stores in my area so I feel better just going to the store and picking up the ez27, even if I have to pay a few more dollars. Its on sale at CC for 229 also. I guess you can all tell that I'm really new to this whole thing so thanks for being patient with me. I know how frustrating it can be to explain something to someone who knows nothing haha.

I don't mean to "confuse" you even more, but if you want to watch one channel while recording another, you do need a tuner in the DVD recorder.

Also are you going to do timer recordings? If so, setting up a tunerless recorder is more confusing, because you'll have to set both the recorder and the cable box for the timer, or you will need a recorder with an IR blaster to turn on your cable box and switch it to proper channel. I am pretty sure the EZ17 does not have an IR blaster, not sure about the EZ27.

No, I don't believe any of the new Panny's do. Other than the LG like you said, I don't even know of any tunered models that do now. There are probably some I don't know about, but that's the thing - they never seem to include it in the specs either way now.

I know that a few of the tunerless, DVD/VCR models do, like the one's at Sam's (maybe some of their DVD-only recorders do, too?).

If your cable box can't set timers, and I don't think that's too common, either, then the new Panny's are definitely out. Unless you want to just record extended basic in analog. I'm pretty sure Comcast's can't, but I don't know about any others.

I think most satellite tuners can do that (mine can), but that's not gonna help you. I think it slipped my mind because I'm just so used to having that ability myself for so long now, and I take it for granted. When people are talking about cable, I don't even think of that right away. Sorry 'bout that.

I guess then we need to know which model's have it - because that's really the most important feature you'll need if you want to timer record from the cable box. Good thing bobbyslav reminded us, as it kind of went over my head when texasbudman first mentioned it.

But check your cable box and see first.

Ok, I just checked my cable box and it seems like I can set recordings from it. It says that it's going to record to my vcr, even though I don't have one hooked up. I looked through all the options and theres no way to change the recording output. I can change the recording time (start recording 5 minutes early, end 1 minute late, etc) but I can't change from vcr to dvd. The model number of the cable box is motorola dct2224.

What exactly is an ir blaster and why would I want one?

It's a cable with a little "eye" at the end of it, which runs from the recorder and you fix firmly right in front of the cable box's IR sensor. It will change the tuner to the correct channels that you have the recorder set to record from.

Just as you would with a remote control, you have to set the right "code" for your cable box in the recorder first.

Sounds like you're good to go with your cable box, though.

If you get the Panny (or any other brand which uses them), get yourself a pack of 2-3x DVD-RAM's for recording, too. You can re-record on them 100,000x. They sometimes give you one free with the recorder. They're kind of hard to find in the stores, but Fry's carries them, and Circuit City and Panasonic.com sells them on their websites. You can check your local BB & CC stores, too. The "data" ones are cheaper, and will work just as well as the "audio/data" ones. They just have to be formatted on the recorder first. They have the "data" ones for only $.99 each on the Panny website right now.

I agree with what Ram said about the DVD RAM's...I Picked up some DVD-RAM's... I had to order them from CC site, but its real hard to get new stuff here... but like I said earlier, do a few trial runs... I made a bunch of Bone Head mistakes the first couple of times... But out of the two I have opened and used one was cursed (the first one) and the second has worked great... From what I understand, the occational bad apple(s) in the packs is more common than what everyone would like...

Glad you didn't need the IR Blaster, I did and had to sacrifice the input... lesser of two evils...for my price range, at the time...

Good Luck with your new toy and get use out of it for a long time...

Ok guys well I just got the DVD player. I set it up and everything and this is what happens. Let me know if this is normal and if this will work for me. The tuner in the DVD player apparently does not get some channels that I want to record such as HBO (if possible) and Versus. When I switch back over to my cable box (through the remote, without unhooking everything and whatnot) I still get all the old channels I used to get. So does this mean that I will not be able to record those channels or does it just mean that I can't view them with the tuner built into the Panny?

Ok well I pretty much figured out how to make everything work through way too much experimentation lol. When I use input 1 it goes to my cable box. So I can set timed recordings to input 1. The problem that I'm having now is that when someone else changes the channel on the cable box, I'm not getting the recording I want. That happened already today. I set a recording for HBO and when I got home from work someone changed the cable box to the Disney channel so my HBO recording is now 2 1/2 hours of the Disney channel. It's going to be way too much of a hassle if we have to keep fighting over the TV for the rest of our lives. Is there any solution to this problem?

a 2d cable box :(

... lame.

Ok well now I really need some technical help. The tuner was working great for the first day but now watching football today I started losing picture intermittently. It will go out for anywhere from a tenth of a second (basically just a little skip but very annoying) and sometimes up to 3 or 4 seconds with no picture or sound (very very very annoying). Even when I turn the recorder off and just watch through my cable box (which is still running through the recorder through input 1) I have this problem. I've never had this problem before so the assumption I have is that it is because of the DVD recorder. Has anyone heard of this problem before or know of some type of fix?

You could try different cables or other inputs. If that doesn't work I'd exchange the recorder as it might be defective.

As far as the conflicts with the other people in the household, you can try this: If you're still getting the analog versions of those channels through your cable, you can set the recorder up in another room, with the cable coax running straight into it (no cable box). Then do a scan for all the available channels. If you're still getting the analog versions you can record from those.

But then you'll either have to watch on the TV in that room, or use re-recordable DVD-RAM's and play them later on a DVD player in the main room (which can actually play back DVD-RAM's). Or you could try getting the others to watch those channels in the other room rather than yourself.

Otherwise it's a second cable box.

Ok scratch that. Seems to only happen on Fox. I guess something is wrong with the broadcast on their end.

We only have 1 TV in the whole house :(

Well, if you're getting the analog versions, split the cable and run one side to the recorder, and then to a line input into the TV, and the other side directly into the TV. Then make them watch the analog (and clear-QAM digitals, if the TV has a QAM tuner) versions through the TV's built-in tuner(s) while your recorder will be free to record from the cable box.

Why don't you just get an HD recorder from your cable company, it costs about $5 extra per month, and it has two tuners built in, so you can record one channel, while watching another without any problems. Scheduling recordings is very easy as well. For the price of your DVD recorder you pay pretty much 2 years rent for the cable company's HD recroder box. Chances are your DVD recorder won't last that long anyway.

If you only got one tv in the whole house you were/are going to have problems regaurdless of what you do, short of getting your own TV... sooner or later someone's gonna screw up the timer or something similar... I say either get set it up in another room w/o a tv or just go to garage sales and find a cheap tv for now... I got a used TV in college and she still used at my mom's house, I've had it for like 10 years... did the job... at least till you can get a "Real TV"... Hell if your patient you can get a cheap projector (old) on ebay for next to nothing... I saved over a grand on mine that was discontinued three weeks prior my purachased (when I was in grad school)... she runs great today...

1TV + X people = Infinante # of Headaches in Recording stuff

Trust me been there done that... its is impossible to avoid it!!!!!!!!!
Good Luck