First MNT EM8634 player launching 15 October 2007!! [Text View] - Page 2

Hi-Jack

10-18-07, 01:20 PM

Needs fixing for that indeed...
We reported it to DvICo to check in the next FW release. Hopefully FW will be again as in the old days.
Looking very much forward to that as it should restore a lot of issues introduced lately (but still hidden
beta). Even the 1.2.23 is beta so also normal to have issues. Next FW is promised to be RC level...

Update:
Just blabbed with the beta teams and seems we have mixed results. Over NFS most play ok but not over SMB
(we already knew SMB ain't doing the trick really beyond ISO and SD). We have people inside the team gaving
watched over 20 movies by now with 1.2.25 using NFS without a signle issue...

Seems a lot depends on local setup and performance too as the bst results are achived using Solaris and Linux
OS that have decent NFS support. On windows systems, things can be totally different and it still would not
mean a bad job from DvICo. Just plain dumb windows :-) Basically, the implementation is correct and stable.
How the PC's and NAS perform with it... is not in the hands of DvICo...

We will soon be able to test Tomacro, DViCo and PopCorn Hour side by side and see how it runs on the
different systems... That would at least offer the ability to claim it works better on one and not the other...

burrito4891

10-18-07, 03:51 PM

oldpainless68

10-18-07, 03:54 PM

Hello,

I've spent over an hour reading all the threads regarding this thing, and I'm still unclear about something. Is my understanding correct in that this will NOT be able to hook up to a pc via usb, and just transfer my files across? Also, a more light-hearted question, what does this thing not play (other than realmedia)?

The 1st part of your question?...it would seem not.....

K

robena

10-18-07, 04:39 PM

Update:
We have people inside the team gaving
watched over 20 movies by now with 1.2.25 using NFS without a signle issue

Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to the next frirmware release!

blackriders

10-18-07, 05:53 PM

Hello,

I've spent over an hour reading all the threads regarding this thing, and I'm still unclear about something. Is my understanding correct in that this will NOT be able to hook up to a pc via usb, and just transfer my files across? Also, a more light-hearted question, what does this thing not play (other than realmedia)?

Well they said there are going to be firmware upgrades that will support ogg,ogm I think and flac.

Besides that I don't really know what else it's missing.

Hi-Jack

10-18-07, 10:38 PM

Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to the next frirmware release!

Another update...
We started yesterday gathering feedback on H.264 streaming, so far about 10
people replied having no issues with NFS. Can you change clients maybe and
test again? (I ran couple movies to check over NFS (Infrant ReadyNAS NV)
with no issue unless using trick play over 16X which is not supported in the
current beta)

Check PM... Posted link to 1.2.25 download so you can try using that version.
Now let's get back to popcorn and discuss DViCo in the proper thread :-)

enjoy

zzzpt

10-19-07, 08:45 AM

Well
Very nice :P

Glad to see the rising of the cheap mkv players :P
I'd understood, that if you connect a Bluray/HDDVD reader this box will, possible, read it.
Wright ?

Hi-Jack

10-19-07, 10:35 AM

Wrong...
DVD models will be able to have the drive replaced with a Blu-Ray drive at a later stage,
not the streamers. I doubt they will be supported over USB link or so in time... A DVD
player si targeted to be able to be swapped with the BD drive... Dunno if still true, still
planned, how and what...

We'll see after the first product tests... Me not yet looking at the finish if I don't even
know where it will start :-)

Munkeung

10-19-07, 10:50 AM

Hi-Jack

10-19-07, 11:02 AM

No, the PopCorn possibly won't be allowing this. There are plans to have dvd players
(popcorn is no dvd player) be swapped from internal DVD drive to BD player... i don't
know if it ever will happen but the plans are discussed and launched that it is possible...

Munkeung

10-19-07, 11:24 AM

zzzpt

10-19-07, 12:40 PM

Oh Thanks, I forgot Popcorn doesn't have a internal DVD player...:o

I was thinking about a external USB DVD or BlueRay/HDDVD
Off course thinking in the future :rolleyes:

infoman2001

10-19-07, 07:59 PM

don't know if I am reading the message correctly but Dlink release the DS3220RD which is a Mediaplayer/DVD player and i can tell you this from inside Dlink source that this was one of the worst decisions they had made in producing a product.

oldpainless68

10-20-07, 02:44 AM

pteittinen

10-20-07, 02:54 AM

We started yesterday gathering feedback on H.264 streaming
I would love to provide feedback as well. I have plenty of test materials and a few NFS boxes here. Drop me a PM with a link and I'll start testing.

edit: Hang on! You were talking about Tvix 4100, correct? Seems to be a wrong thread for that subject :)

elee532

10-20-07, 11:39 AM

Will this player be able to stream Napster subscription music from an XP or Vista PC?

Thanks.

Mr. Wilby

10-21-07, 01:34 AM

When Hi-jack is talking about firmware updates, is he talking about these new 8634 players or then some other older model (e.g. Tomacro / TIVX)?

If the older models, can we please keep this thread on topic?

ajaxmike

10-21-07, 08:29 AM

That URL doesn't seem to work anymore.

try: www.popcornhour.com

Kaido

10-21-07, 04:41 PM

Is it the end of the month yet? :p

Johnny

10-22-07, 10:34 AM

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/viewtopic.php?t=81

"We do have such idea in mind to allow user's generated executable to run.

However, user's will have to recreate the toolchain themselves to
generate the binaries.

Currently, our browser will auto-load index.htm or sd_index.htm (SD mode)
from any folder. This allows for user generated HTML-based navigation
for their content.

Likewise, we can auto-run user's generated executable."

:):):):)

lymzy

10-22-07, 11:51 AM

Has anybody post this review?

Lot of pictures and good information.

8634 Board in NMT

http://bbs.newsilu.net/attachments/day_070924/20070924_6ab97528bb0750145144DUKesvQzOimM.jpg.thumb.jpg

Output

http://bbs.newsilu.net/attachments/day_070924/20070924_0928be2849a6b0774cf64cWL4sFi5lDn.jpg

Video output supported:

http://bbs.newsilu.net/attachments/day_070924/20070924_796594609d7503db3516J9TNPhK7CnpX.jpg.thumb.jpg

Pretty good that they include 1366X768p60 and 1080i/p50.
The only one missing is 1080p24, maybe updated in future firmware?

UI
http://bbs.newsilu.net/attachments/day_070924/20070924_695c226a6ccb4b6edb1cpdy5fSwFiHBx.jpg.thumb.jpg

The reviewer tested using 16x DVD ROM, network and USB HDD. The result is 8634 board is very good on the network streaming. It is stable at 55M compare to 22M of 8620.
The evidence is Innocence:GITS(bitrate around 40-46M/s because of the 7.1 LPCM) could be streamed and play smoothly.

He also tested Pearl habor, X-Men 3, Black hawk down, Ice Age, 300, Kingkong, Hulk, Starship troopers, the fifth element, 007 Casino Royal, Sony HADCAM, 40M-45M/s demo from Samsung, and some MKV and X264 material.

All of which played smoothly over the network. He test FF. He said the peak rate this machine could handle over the network is 55M/s. Therefore when FF Innocence at 8x, there isn't a lot of difference from 1x.

Other problem currently includes DVD playback. He didn't specify the problem but said should be resolved in the next firmware.

Regarding subtitle support, he said because of 32M NOR flashrom instead of 4M of 8620. The situation improved.
ANSI srt is currently the best supported format. There is still some problems regarding unicode SRT and SMI.

Hi-Jack

10-22-07, 12:46 PM

lymzy

10-22-07, 12:53 PM

This si actually the upgrade board which firs into some Chinese players. Only sold in
Asian market as far as I know. It has the same potential as PopCorn Hour (interface is
the same and so is the FW).

Syabas released SDK today for eveloping portal plug-ins :-)

Someone mentioned the fan on this board is really really loud and there is little silcon between the 8634 and the heatsink! I hope popcorn do use a silent fan.

Based on the review, I guess Popcorn should be a pretty mature product for HD/BD rip playback unless they don't support EVO and DD+.

The only obivous thing missing for me is the 1080p24 output and cover art in UI.

I certainly would buy one on 10/30.

Hi-Jack

10-22-07, 01:13 PM

I don't think the PopCorn will even use a fan :-)

Johnny

10-22-07, 02:17 PM

GaryD123

10-22-07, 05:21 PM

I really have to give them credit here. Looks like a well thought out product. Having user generated content is going to be a big plus too.

madshi

10-23-07, 04:36 AM

I have to say that the whole Syabas stuff looks really really good. I guess Hi-Jack was right all the time recommending us to wait for 863x based players (that said, I still don't agree with his style of constantly bashing the LimHD, but that doesn't really belong here).

elee532

10-23-07, 08:18 AM

Will this player be able to stream Napster subscription music from an XP or Vista PC?

Anyone?

MitsuHelp

10-23-07, 10:48 AM

Someone mentioned the fan on this board is really really loud and there is little silcon between the 8634 and the heatsink! I hope popcorn do use a silent fan.

Based on the review, I guess Popcorn should be a pretty mature product for HD/BD rip playback unless they don't support EVO and DD+.

The only obivous thing missing for me is the 1080p24 output and cover art in UI.

I certainly would buy one on 10/30.

The question about EVOs have been raised on the NMT forum and no one has replied/answered nor requested it….don’t know why!:mad:

mani

10-23-07, 11:58 PM

basic question.... can NMT play ISO files??/

mani

mani

10-24-07, 12:02 AM

Can i hook up two separate hard drives at same time, and it can read both...(its has 2 USB host ports?

mani

Hi-Jack

10-24-07, 03:43 AM

Supports ISO yes...
All external attached devices can be selected from the main menu to play content from.
The player will not access both at the same time though... You select which device to
start playing from...

LordByron

10-24-07, 04:39 AM

Is it possible to copy files directly from external USB devices to internal HDD ?

talas

10-24-07, 04:44 AM

Woziak

10-24-07, 06:45 AM

Is it possible to copy files directly from external USB devices to internal HDD ?
Not yet, this is under investigation... ;)

Kaido

10-24-07, 09:23 AM

Syabas has published the NMT HTML navigation specification
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/viewtopic.php?t=95

I think I'm going to have a freaking spaz attack if we can truly program the interface AND make our own executables for this box :p

Johnny

10-24-07, 09:59 AM

I think I'm going to have a freaking spaz attack if we can truly program the interface AND make our own executables for this box :p

Me too! I'm sick of Tvix's craptastic GUI and the lame hack we have to resort to to get cover art displayed. Everybody knows HTML so even your grandmother will be able to easily change the GUI on the Syabas units if the HTML feature works as advertised.

Hi-Jack

10-24-07, 11:14 AM

MitsuHelp

10-24-07, 11:59 AM

Dear MitsuHelp EVO files are a top priority for a future firmware..theres no need that EVO wasnt supported as the chip is easily capable of playing a HDVD/evo file or BLUE-RAY/mts..just not looked at as a priority by syabas if you need up to the sec info on Popcornhour check ou Hi-Jacks great forum At mpc.com:)

Thanks Talas for the reply.... I have been watching MPC and NMT sites and it seemed to be an unanswered question. Don't quite understand why it would not be a priority since EVOs seem to be the native container for HD-DVDs.

Was just hoping for an update or status on weather or not they (PH) may be implementing this capability of the 8635.

Thanks again

Johnny

10-24-07, 12:07 PM

and how would that even benefit reading cover art to being able to make your own
backgrounds? I'm a little confused about this craptastic reply that makes no sense...
At least there is hack provided for it... and the interface is on most players limited so
don't act out on TvIX alone and make that "craptastic on all players"...

Geez Hi-Jack, just when I think your incoherent babbling can't get even stupider, you go and prove me wrong. The GUI hack on the Tvix involves loading a background image for a folder. This is not the work of the community or any of the other garbage you are babbling about. This is a simple exploitation of the wallpaper function of the Tvix. Not only is this hack not very flexible, it also slows down the navigation. Even with the assistance of efong's invaluable program, this is a time consuming process and doesn't produce spectacular results.

All of you Tvix lemmings need to grow some hair on your peaches and not get your panties in a bunch every time someone mentions a shortcoming of the Tvix. The Tvix is not perfect.

I didn't see anything
better coming froom your sarcastic ass.... "ever"... Be careful in stating community
work being "lame" if you not bring anything yourself to add value except
ridiculous critics.

Why don't you go back to kissing Dvico's butt or are you too busy stealing content from AVS forum? Here's a revelation: No one cares about your "reviews" which are nothing more then press releases with you name slapped on the bottom. You lost all credibility when you began your smear campaign against Tomacro. AVS forum should show you and your inflated ego the door.

Halcy

10-24-07, 12:18 PM

<sigh>

Please guys, just stop it.

It's entertaining for a while, but we're all grown ups here. Let's behave like it, shall we.

Let's stick to the facts and leave ad hominems at the door, right?

Back to the topic:

Any news on the delay? Still looking at roughly two weeks from the 15th? How about the EU model dates? Any estimates?

This player, even if it doesn't work completely out of the box, has stopped me from buying DVICO/Tomacro previous chip models.

I guess we are all just eager to see how the 1st production models really perform on majority of the content out there.

talas

10-24-07, 12:27 PM

johnny its a shame that your flaming hi-jack like that,he had an opinion and youve got yours leave it at that and get back to the discussion in this thread,as for dvicos whip hound thats nonsense..go check his forum out and youll see dozens of reviews from many manufacturers..as for the tomarco i sold mine because of lack of progress in the firmware front,that doesnt mean that it hasnt progressed since (which it has) brother lets no get in to petty arguments..lets get into constructive discussion :)

Kei Clark

10-24-07, 12:30 PM

Why don't you go back to kissing Dvico's butt or are you too busy stealing content from AVS forum? Here's a revelation: No one cares about your "reviews" which are nothing more then press releases with you name slapped on the bottom. You lost all credibility when you began your smear campaign against Tomacro. AVS forum should show you and your inflated ego the door.

Actually, I find Hi-Jack's reviews to be worth quite a bit....they can bring readers up to speed without having to purchase and test every media player. With the variations in features and functions, it is better to know before you buy, and here Hi-Jack does provide a service. I don't quite understand the bitterness towards him even if you don't like his style, I'm sure that he will be proven wrong or vindicated when Tomacro releases their next firmware.

AVS is lucky to have someone like Hi-Jack in the conversation as he provides more information (like it or not) than nearly anyone that participates here.

madshi

10-24-07, 01:31 PM

Actually, I find Hi-Jack's reviews to be worth quite a bit....they can bring readers up to speed without having to purchase and test every media player. With the variations in features and functions, it is better to know before you buy, and here Hi-Jack does provide a service. I don't quite understand the bitterness towards him even if you don't like his style, I'm sure that he will be proven wrong or vindicated when Tomacro releases their next firmware.

AVS is lucky to have someone like Hi-Jack in the conversation as he provides more information (like it or not) than nearly anyone that participates here.
Yeah, you may be right. But Hi-Jack's attitude is sometimes hard to bear. Why is he attacking Johnny big time just because Johnny criticized the limited tweakability of the Tvix? Is Hi-Jack the only one who is allowed to bash media players? Can't Johnny have his own opinion, too?

I share Johnny's view that being able to write our own HTML pages for each folder is a great *GREAT* feature. And I don't see anything wrong with praising this approach opposed to all the unflexible methods we've seen from other media players until now.

I think Hi-Jack (and many others) are strongly under-estimating what some of us geeks want to do with our media players. Many of us are not happy with just the stock stuff. We want as much tweaking possibility as possible. Support for HTML and user compiled programs? Whooohoooo!! Syabas seems to be willing to go that way. So why can't we all just be happy about that?

madshi

10-24-07, 01:39 PM

You will be able to develop backgrounds for the Syabas players but don't expect you can twist and tweak everything.
We'll be able to do MUCH more than just develop backgrounds. We'll be able to provide a custom HTML start page (most probably with more sub pages to browse to) for each and every folder. This is a tweaker's dream. E.g. I'm planning to have a HTML page for every movie with links to German and USA cover arts and with links to German and USA trailers (which will be directly startable from the HTML page). Maybe also with links to IMDB ratings, list of actors etc. All that is rather easily possible, given the flexibility of a little browser (even if it's limited in functionality). Maybe even cross links to other movies of the same actor/producer/director will be possible etc. We'll have to wait and see what will be possible and what not. But since Syabas seems to be listening to customer feedback, I have good hope for good flexibility.

dp70

10-24-07, 03:11 PM

This sounds awesome and lots more fun than waiting for Tomacro to fix issues in the limHD. I want to take a media player like this and make a "show control" app for it that can seamlessly recreate a theatrical presentation with some real showmanship. This would be done using scripts specifying preshow music, lighting/projector/curtain control via serial or IR interfaces, trailers / cartoons, feature presentation etc. You'd design the scripts offline on a host PC, then transfer them to the media player and use the player to execute them. Sure, some people have done things like this on HTPCs, but it's usually a one-off job. Doing such an app for a media player would allow anyone who has that media player to enjoy it.

Kei Clark

10-24-07, 03:29 PM

Yeah, you may be right. But Hi-Jack's attitude is sometimes hard to bear. Why is he attacking Johnny big time just because Johnny criticized the limited tweakability of the Tvix? Is Hi-Jack the only one who is allowed to bash media players? Can't Johnny have his own opinion, too?

I think Hi-Jack (and many others) are strongly under-estimating what some of us geeks want to do with our media players. Many of us are not happy with just the stock stuff. We want as much tweaking possibility as possible. Support for HTML and user compiled programs? Whooohoooo!! Syabas seems to be willing to go that way. So why can't we all just be happy about that?

I think everyone should have an opinion on technical or other grounds, and I don't think that he has taken a stance that has not proven to be valid criticism, regardless of the characteristic of the person. I found the whole thread rather tortured by the fact that it's obvious English is not the first language of many posters and the conversation is quite colorful.

I'm guessing that he took offense on the flippant comment about the user collabration on the interface. That being said, I know he is quite aware of and his opinions colored by the fact that the 862x series chips had memory limitations, and that the newer 863x series will double or quadruple on the previous model flash as well as the main memory, allowing flexibility in the interface design. We may see many manufacturers accepting some input from users now that they have the luxury to do so.

What I am curious about is the differences in function between the 8634 that this unit will use, vs. non-macrovision 8635 that will be used by DVICO.

Kysersose

10-24-07, 03:31 PM

Keep the insults to one another.
Next one to cross that line will be suspended.

Kyser

CalypsoCowboy

10-24-07, 03:54 PM

Any word of if this device could run other programs? I'm thinking something along the lines of being able to recieve a Slingbox or Hava Monsoon or HDHomerun stream?

oldpainless68

10-24-07, 03:57 PM

Keep the insults to one another.
Next one to cross that line will be suspended.

Kyser

Good to see a Mod here....

K

oldpainless68

10-24-07, 04:00 PM

I think everyone should have an opinion on technical or other grounds, and I don't think that he has taken a stance that has not proven to be valid criticism, regardless of the characteristic of the person. I found the whole thread rather tortured by the fact that it's obvious English is not the first language of many posters and the conversation is quite colorful.

I'm guessing that he took offense on the flippant comment about the user collabration on the interface. That being said, I know he is quite aware of and his opinions colored by the fact that the 862x series chips had memory limitations, and that the newer 863x series will double or quadruple on the previous model flash as well as the main memory, allowing flexibility in the interface design. We may see many manufacturers accepting some input from users now that they have the luxury to do so.

What I am curious about is the differences in function between the 8634 that this unit will use, vs. non-macrovision 8635 that will be used by DVICO.

Kei.....It was nice to see you pop in on the Lim thread (well....if most of the posts in this thread are off topic....)......you know you are most welcome any time...

K

Kei Clark

10-24-07, 04:07 PM

Kei.....It was nice to see you pop in on the Lim thread (well....if most of the posts in this thread are off topic....)......you know you are most welcome any time...

K

How gracious, thank you for the welcome. :)

burrito4891

10-24-07, 04:40 PM

blackriders

10-24-07, 06:34 PM

So, I haven't seen many comments regarding this, but is it true that the NMT only supports ext3 filesystem on the internal HDD? If so, does this mean I'll need to format a blank drive to ext3 and then move my media files onto the drive?

Well if you have a blank drive the popcorn will format the drive for you in ext3. If you have one filled with media(movies,pics etc) you'll have to transfer them and then install the drive to be formatted then transfer the files back.

BTW is this coming out at the end of the month. I'm really looking forward.

talas

10-25-07, 05:54 AM

New pictures on the popcorn frontpage showing a better looking a-100 and remote control..drolie droolie drooolie :eek::):D

mpcclub.com

graystrickland

10-25-07, 07:31 AM

Well if you have a blank drive the popcorn will format the drive for you in ext3. If you have one filled with media(movies,pics etc) you'll have to transfer them and then install the drive to be formatted then transfer the files back.

You're referring only to a drive to be mounted internally in the NMT, right? You're not suggesting that network storage would have to be in ext3 (linux), right? All my pcs run Windoze and their drives are formatted in NTFS. I'd sure hate it if I had to create new storage in ext3 on my network for the NMT to be able to read it. Surely that's not the case.

BTW... if you have three NMTs, and each has internal hard drives, can each one read/play content which is stored on the others? I have three ReplayTV units and they read/play each other's content. It would be nice if the NMTs would. I assume that they will, but I'm not sure.

teddystacker

10-25-07, 07:58 AM

@graystrickland

If you go here..

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/viewtopic.php?t=18&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=ntfs&start=15

You will see I asked a question about using "Content filled" hard drives with the NMT - Syabas , gave the good and bad news answer..

They say however that NTFS support for read and write is coming in a later f/w release..

Regards

Teddy

You're referring only to a drive to be mounted internally in the NMT, right? You're not suggesting that network storage would have to be in ext3 (linux), right? All my pcs run Windoze and their drives are formatted in NTFS. I'd sure hate it if I had to create new storage in ext3 on my network for the NMT to be able to read it. Surely that's not the case.

BTW... if you have three NMTs, and each has internal hard drives, can each one read/play content which is stored on the others? I have three ReplayTV units and they read/play each other's content. It would be nice if the NMTs would. I assume that they will, but I'm not sure.

cHarOn99

10-25-07, 08:10 AM

for what you need ntfs the only point would be with usb slave and thats it, but right now ext2/3 is better for this device, it has more performance and better filehandling then ntfs

cHarOn

daniel_owen_uk

10-25-07, 08:50 AM

I thought there is a misunderstanding if you are accessing a network share via SMB it doesn't matter what format the drive is.

You can access an NTFS drive via SMB no problem.

The only reason you would need to use ext3 is if the drive was physically connected to the popcornhour.

10-25-07, 10:13 AM

What I am curious about is the differences in function between the 8634 that this unit will use, vs. non-macrovision 8635 that will be used by DVICO.

Kei,

On Popcorn website, it says 8635, but it did say 8634 a week ago.

Steve

cHarOn99

10-25-07, 10:22 AM

it cant be 8635 because 8634 is for big devices designed that you can also connect an dvd and hdd parallel internal so ut will have 8635 because it is the small factor board design from syabas.

cHarOn

Woziak

10-25-07, 10:53 AM

for what you need ntfs the only point would be with usb slave and thats it, but right now ext2/3 is better for this device, it has more performance and better filehandling then ntfs

cHarOn
You are right. EXT3 is the only right choice for the internal drive of the NMT...
A lost of confusion going on between file systems and network protocols... ;)

sansp00

10-25-07, 12:00 PM

Any word of if this device could run other programs? I'm thinking something along the lines of being able to recieve a Slingbox or Hava Monsoon or HDHomerun stream?
@CalypsoCowboy
If it can stream RTSP streams, it will be able to stream the Hava.
If they can open up and give an API or something alike, there is a possibility for the HDHomerun since there is a API for it.

The Sling is the most complicated of the bunch since it uses a closed source encrypted signal to broadcast, so unless they decide to write a client app for syabas, forget about it.

Patrick S.

Hi-Jack

10-25-07, 03:25 PM

We see a lot of discussions going towards EVO files and I agree, it should be added to
the latest players running the EM863x chips even though I also know only a part of the
consumers will actually use it. HD DVD and Blu-Ray are still on limited availability and
most content downloaded online lately is still SD and H.264 (mkv).

One most in addition keep in mind that downloading these files is equally limited to
people having unlimited bandwidth or at least have much more badnwidth available than
the 10GB in many countries ( like mine :-( ) and thereofre keep using normal HD rips and
SD.

I wasn't so much for EVO files a couple weeks back but since I do receive so many
requests and see so many talking about how important adding EVO is, we just added
it to our recommendations lists as well. The more asking, the more chance it has :-)

Tracking more info on their intentions concerning EVO...
Maybe can even set some minds at ease :-)

madshi

10-25-07, 03:31 PM

robena

10-25-07, 03:33 PM

Hi-Jack,

One thing that no media player does correctly with many HD files is trick play.

It's a real annoyance, so if this new crop of players did that well (and played flawlessly all HD of course), I would ditch my TVIX in a heartbeat.

prototype_sx

10-25-07, 03:48 PM

http://i23.tinypic.com/290pphl.jpg
Before
http://i22.tinypic.com/jgnrxj.jpg
After

They seem to have made some strides with the case as you can clearly see the differences. It doesnt look so bad to me guys :) ONLY concern I have is the whole internal drive ext3 thing. How am I going to get stuff on the internal drive? I use a wifi router around the house, so my only option would be to use an external ntfs drive to copy stuff from pc to that drive then from that drive to the popcorn via usbhost?

I'm kinda all over the place, forgive me, just excited lol

farside847

10-25-07, 03:55 PM

for what its worth, I too would love EVO support for HD DVD rips, plus Blu-ray!

madshi

10-25-07, 03:56 PM

ONLY concern I have is the whole internal drive ext3 thing. How am I going to get stuff on the internal drive?
Just use a network connection (LAN). That way the internal file system doesn't matter at all. Network transport doesn't depend on file systems.

Hi-Jack

10-25-07, 03:59 PM

You and many others.
The trick play on current units being instable is mainly because of memory (buffering)
limitations and also the memory manager is purely software. the new units have a MMU
and also more power/memory so we'd expecially expect the features to be more mature
in general and more stable inlcuding for the convenience of users but also in delivering
better music and picture functions.

We are alreay certain some won't be there in the beginning as one thing remains, even
with the latest power inside the units, they will equally remain work in progress and in
the beginning will have their quirks too...

As soon as we get feedback from Syabas on the EVO and DD+ we will post it. We also
enlisted the support on the feature list for the product to come... Now i read some more strange requests i like your ideas about :-)

- Support for unrar on the fly (play movies in seperate rar files like Xbox)?
I'm not sure this is wishfull considering even the added power still not makes the players as powerfull as an XBOX or a PC. I also doubt many people use movies in RAR files but extract first. Since the PoPCorn is a torrent downloader as well, how would we feel about having an unrar option at selection but not when starting to play the movie. Could only cause issues for missing bits, speed of loading and maybe even gaps in playback or maybe it's possible to unrar to a temp while the movie starts to play (consumes buffer so playback could be skipping first minutes etc...). I'm not sure about this but then again, i'm not making the firmware or the product :-) What do you think about this?

- Turn the PopCorn into a recorder?
Equally unsure to get behind this idea. If it would be capable of recording, we'd expect scheduling capabilities, epg maybe and editing functions? Would this even be possible to become an acceptable recorder? I'm still pro keeping player and recorder seperate consider in Europe, og man, we do have high demands for functions on recordings beyond the ability to record alone. We always want more and i'm afraid this might lead to taking away focus of the player's core, to deliver a versatile media playback device... (i only seen 1 recorder being a success so far mixing with playback, VR-558 from KiSS and look what it is capable of in mdia playback...)

- Download from usenet
Now this is more something I can find reason to. if torrents can be downloaded why not usenet? It's certainly as popular and given the limitations of supporting private trackers already, a nice addition. Would we also want FTP download abilities in some sort of queu system (due to limited connections per IP mostly)?

- Napster and WMV (DRM protected
Requests are launched but as with previous players, i doubt the players will support DRM protected files. Surely can be streamed with the proper PC software installed. (not sure why, think it's a licensing issue)

In general, I would vote to complete the most used features and expectations and then add few things at a time with beta test groups on AVS/MPC together with the manufacturers. The link is already established so for sure, there will be a lot of action around the players and off course, user's abilities to enhance stuff with the released tools for triggering user executables...

Good times will come.
Maybe without rar and recording though, it's not my call :-)

Hi-Jack

10-25-07, 04:03 PM

Just use a network connection (LAN). That way the internal file system doesn't matter at all. Network transport doesn't depend on file systems.

Also FTP will be possible to use. Notice that transfer speed will be limited to
about 5mbps so it is rather slow if you plan on filling 750GB HDD. I personally
use a sync software in the background to sync players with the NAS main
storage.

The missing USB slave is the only point to which I feel PopCorn Hour has
overlooked something. Big files squeezing through a little whole is the only
solution but they plan on looking into higher trasnfer rates using USB external
drives connected to the unit if you need a mass transfer to start with.

pteittinen

10-25-07, 04:09 PM

most content downloaded online lately is still SD and H.264 (mkv).
Most of my downloads are transport streams (.ts) and increasingly AVC encoded. More than half are still MPEG-2. I hope TS support is not brushed aside for MKV.

graystrickland

10-25-07, 04:11 PM

AFter reading the foregoing thread and others on this site, I've tried to summarize the situation regarding Hard Disk Drives...

INTERNAL DRIVE (installed inside the NMT)
-- File system will be ext3
-- Drive must be formated ext3 or unformated when installed; if unformated when installed, the NMT will format it as ext3 on the fly
-- You can remotely write to the internal drive from a pc on your network; your pc need not run linux or store your media files on an ext3 partition to transfer them over the lan and write them to the internal drive

EXTERNAL USB-CONNECTED DRIVE (connected to the NMT via a USB cable)
-- File system needs to be ext3

NETWORK STORAGE (including NAS units and network shares on pcs on your lan)
-- File system can be any flavor (ext3, NTFS, FAT32, etc.)
-- Host of network file storage can run any os

Would someone kindly confirm or correct the above points? Thank you.

prototype_sx

10-25-07, 04:22 PM

So, what ur all saying is, I should be able to plug this device directly into my PC's LAN port and transfer files that way? What speeds are we talkin about?

madshi

10-25-07, 04:27 PM

So, what ur all saying is, I should be able to plug this device directly into my PC's LAN port and transfer files that way?
Yes. Of course network needs to be configured correctly.

What speeds are we talkin about?
See Hi-Jacks last post.

prototype_sx

10-25-07, 04:36 PM

he mentioned FTP speeds, but what of LAN speeds when connected directly to host PC? Is it anywhere near USBhost speeds?

Woziak

10-25-07, 04:56 PM

EXTERNAL USB-CONNECTED DRIVE (connected to the NMT via a USB cable)
-- File system needs to be ext3...
Would someone kindly confirm or correct the above points? Thank you.

FAT32 and NTFS (read only) are also supported on external drives. :)

cHarOn99

10-25-07, 05:11 PM

AFter reading the foregoing thread and others on this site, I've tried to summarize the situation regarding Hard Disk Drives...

INTERNAL DRIVE (installed inside the NMT)
-- File system will be ext3
-- Drive must be formated ext3 or unformated when installed; if unformated when installed, the NMT will format it as ext3 on the fly
-- You can remotely write to the internal drive from a pc on your network;
you can run any BS Windows, Linux, Mac,..................

EXTERNAL USB-CONNECTED DRIVE (connected to the NMT via a USB cable)
-- File system needs to be ext3
and Fat32, NTFS, HFS

NETWORK STORAGE (including NAS units and network shares on pcs on your lan)
-- File system can be any flavor (ext3, NTFS, FAT32, etc.)
-- Host of network file storage can run any os

Would someone kindly confirm or correct the above points? Thank you.

cHarOn

Hi-Jack

10-26-07, 03:15 AM

he mentioned FTP speeds, but what of LAN speeds when connected directly to host PC? Is it anywhere near USBhost speeds?

No, both FTP and LAN transfers will suffer from the same limitations. The
speed will be around 5MBps... (Same thing practically as both use LAN and
are capanle of reaching higher speeds...)

Hi-Jack

10-26-07, 03:18 AM

chris_57

10-26-07, 06:16 AM

- Download from usenet
Now this is more something I can find reason to. if torrents can be downloaded why not usenet? It's certainly as popular and given the limitations of supporting private trackers already, a nice addition. Would we also want FTP download abilities in some sort of queu system (due to limited connections per IP mostly)?

I cant see the torrent facility being a big selling point at present as download speeds on public trackers are so poor. So to max out its got to be utorrent or azareus or even better a newsgroup client app.

Glad someone's listening lets hope its taken onboard as the unit does seem to meet all other downloading requirements. Getting one shipped out to the UK as soon as they start selling 'em!

talas

10-26-07, 06:31 AM

have to agree chris_57 i think torrent support would be wasted..but i think binary support will come its in discussion now and im sure will come through.:)

www.mpcclub.com

prototype_sx

10-26-07, 08:52 AM

No, both FTP and LAN transfers will suffer from the same limitations. The
speed will be around 5MBps... (Same thing practically as both use LAN and
are capanle of reaching higher speeds...)

Why are lan speeds so slow?! Also, what will be the fastest way to transfer media to the popcorn hr?

madshi

10-26-07, 09:14 AM

Wonder about EVO support.
Is the request for this limited to playing the EVO files with sound or mainly to get HD DVD navigation on top as well... (Easiest would be EVO with DD+ as if DVD navigation kicks in, we are talking about a whole different challenge...)
HD DVD navigation is not stored in the EVO file but in separate files, I believe. I'm always removing those. I only care about the movie. So EVO with DD+ decoding support would be all that I ever need. Of course I can only speak for myself. Maybe other people would also like to have HD DVD navigation. But IMHO that should be low priority for Syabas/Tvix. The most important thing is that these new devices should be able to play the core movie files of HD DVD and Blu-Ray rips without requiring us consumers to do any damage (like lossy reencoding) to the audio/video data.

Kaido

10-26-07, 10:22 AM

Why are lan speeds so slow?! Also, what will be the fastest way to transfer media to the popcorn hr?

I'm guessing NFS will be the ticket, if downloading on the machine itself is an option, otherwise USB. SMB/FTP has seemed slow on other devices like my Tvix as well, it's probably just a hardware thing. I get like 40 MB/sec on my NAS over FTP but only like 4 MB/sec on my Tvix and less on my Xbox.

MitsuHelp

10-26-07, 10:51 AM

farside847

10-26-07, 10:57 AM

HD DVD navigation is not stored in the EVO file but in separate files, I believe. I'm always removing those. I only care about the movie. So EVO with DD+ decoding support would be all that I ever need. Of course I can only speak for myself. Maybe other people would also like to have HD DVD navigation. But IMHO that should be low priority for Syabas/Tvix. The most important thing is that these new devices should be able to play the core movie files of HD DVD and Blu-Ray rips without requiring us consumers to do any damage (like lossy reencoding) to the audio/video data.

Yeah, I would say movie playback first, navigation second. Eventually I would love to just save HD dvds (HD and blu-ray) to iso files and have access to the menu, extra features, etc, but first things first. The movie needs to play :)

lymzy

10-26-07, 11:44 AM

Wonder about EVO support.
Is the request for this limited to playing the EVO files with sound or mainly to get HD DVD navigation on top as well... (Easiest would be EVO with DD+ as if DVD navigation kicks in, we are talking about a whole different challenge...)

ENjoy

Limited playing only. You need a lot more power to handle HDi smoothly. Please forget about HDi support for this generation. I don't think bug free HDi software package for SoC exist yet.

Hi-Jack

10-26-07, 02:17 PM

Ok, EVO is on the final roadmap of Syabas now for sure :-) They also see the huge amount of requests made on several forums... A little more info about it, as it will mainly be playback (no navigation)

(MPC News Article)
So far, EVO support is hot topic concerning the new media players about to be launched. The EVO files are thus far supported by renaming the EVO files to VOB as they do not differ much from normal DVD files in structure. One problem however is the DD+ sound which is unsupported by this method so only video would play without sound. Another limitation would be that it does not support HD DVD navigation using this method. It should be fairly easy to support this in new products without any SDK changes. So far, it is confirmed by Syabas it will look into EVO support in due time. So far, the target would be supporting the EVO files and DD+ without HD DVD navigation options.

The support of EVO, if implemented, will support decoding DD+ or E_AC3 on board and output to the analogue audio or as PCM via HDMI 1.1 to the TV, or as PassThrough in the same way currently supported in mkv already with E_AC3 audio.Technically, HDMI 1.3 is a dud for now as there is no driver yet and very few expensive amplifiers support it. Support can already be given on HDMI 1.1 to get DD+ and since the extra cost of HDMI 1.3 is reasonable (6 dollars), there is no reason except missing drivers causing the use of HDMI 1.1 on the first units coming up. and even if using 1.3 HDMI it will only benefit those owning amplifiers in the very high end range of 1000$ and up...

Hope that clears up some of the requests and what will happen, is or is not to be expected.

Enjoy
Hi-jack

joewmaki

10-26-07, 02:32 PM

1.3 HDMI it will only benefit those owning amplifiers in the very high end range of 1000$ and up...

Hi-Jack, The Onkyo 605 is 1.3 and can be found for around 400.00 USD. 1.3 will only become more affordable.

Hi-Jack

10-26-07, 02:53 PM

Amazing. I not even seen this one and surely not expected the low prices. US is beneficial, i'm in EU so the pricing here is between 500€ and 600€ (approx 800$)
Now I must think rather I need a new receiver :-)

madshi

10-26-07, 04:49 PM

Ok, EVO is on the final roadmap of Syabas now for sure :-) They also see the huge amount of requests made on several forums... A little more info about it, as it will mainly be playback (no navigation)

(MPC News Article)
So far, EVO support is hot topic concerning the new media players about to be launched. The EVO files are thus far supported by renaming the EVO files to VOB as they do not differ much from normal DVD files in structure. One problem however is the DD+ sound which is unsupported by this method so only video would play without sound. Another limitation would be that it does not support HD DVD navigation using this method. It should be fairly easy to support this in new products without any SDK changes. So far, it is confirmed by Syabas it will look into EVO support in due time. So far, the target would be supporting the EVO files and DD+ without HD DVD navigation options.

The support of EVO, if implemented, will support decoding DD+ or E_AC3 on board and output to the analogue audio or as PCM via HDMI 1.1 to the TV, or as PassThrough in the same way currently supported in mkv already with E_AC3 audio.
That sounds very good - thank you!

Do I read that correctly? Is E-AC3 decoding really already supported in the MKV container??

lymzy

10-26-07, 06:25 PM

Do I read that correctly? Is E-AC3 decoding really already supported in the MKV container??

If they really make the 10/30 date, I would have a conclusion by next weekend. :)

cinten

10-26-07, 08:07 PM

Any idea how much this item is going to cost?

Hi-Jack

10-26-07, 11:57 PM

That sounds very good - thank you!

Do I read that correctly? Is E-AC3 decoding really already supported in the MKV container??

Yes it is. (not verified but feedback, we will be able to verify next week when
we have a PoPCorn and where tests can start. For people who wish to have
samples tested, they can upload it to our sample FTP (PM me for details).

What we already know is that PopCorn is equally like the Tomacro and TviX
still having some issues with blocks (L.51 16 frames), they use the same
workaround to limit files having this as others.

Intel from Sigma said they will be working on supporting mkv from the SDK in
the near future which should improve general playback as now most is
software patching and workaround. We still have some sound issues on our
bug report (DTS mkv drops here and there) which shall be one of the major
things to look at... (same as happenned on TViX before)

Things look pretty good on the test platforms but so far we still don't want to
make that a reference for the PopCorn player as it's different hardware etc...
As of next week, the real feedback can start based on facts and not on
ideas or based on a different test platform or "hear say"...

I'll try give as much feedback as i can cause i'm very busy always. We will
take a day or two dedicated with PopCorn to get some info started so people
can decide it's the right choice to buy...

madshi

10-27-07, 03:28 AM

Sounds very nice. If the Popcorn can really do all it seems to be doing it would be one hell of a device. And that without even taking the price into consideration! Dvico and Tomacro will have to lower their prices to stay competetive... :D

henrikvg

10-27-07, 04:37 AM

Now i read some more strange requests i like your ideas about :-)

- Support for unrar on the fly (play movies in seperate rar files like Xbox)?

Not a strange request at all, this has been said over and over again to be *the* killer feature of XBMC. Impossible or not, whatever company first to implement this coupled with HD playback (which is what XBMC is missing) is sure to move a lot of units.

Hi-Jack

10-27-07, 06:12 AM

PopCorn is not running PC platform unlike Xbox.
I can see many possible issues in performance or stability with this implemented but
hey, Syabas should try and get it done if they like the idea... Would be the same loving
your car and then go out to buy the latest new bike and expect it to be as fast and
functional as your car just because you got used to driving that....

Both have wheels... total different performance and speed... :-)
Just expressing my concerns this should by far be one of the least concerns to start
with as what happens if the files inside your rar files are not yet supported because
everyone yells about getting rar and usenet?

It's not a "killer" feature in my humble opinion either as most would need extraction to
sync subs and stuff or organize their files properly instead of having 50 rar files in every
folder. (Is also what makes ISO more popular than VIDEO-TS).

I don't know...
Just my feeling about this ain't right...
No problem if they prefer doing this rather than something else...
Available or not, 75% will never use it except the ones coming over from Xbox camp and
that crowd will be low as Xbox remains having it's advantages against any player due to
codec packs and stuff "official" player cannot support...

Either way, no problems...

henrikvg

10-27-07, 09:35 AM

PopCorn is not running PC platform unlike Xbox.

True, which might (or might not, what do I know) make it a hard feature to implement. But while you're entitled to your own opinion, believe me when I say that this is a feature that keep a lot of people from switching from XBMC to something else. It's simply so convenient not having to bother with unpacking a file before playing it. Compared to Usenet support, which has been on the decline for years with a tiny but often vocal group of supporters that pay good money for access to premium binary groups; this is not an obscure request but something that a lot of people use today and that would probably put the Popcorn unit ahead of the competition were they to successfully implement it.

joewmaki

10-27-07, 02:28 PM

Any idea how much this item is going to cost?

Website states $179.00 USD

lymzy

10-27-07, 02:58 PM

Hi Jack
I agree with you 110% :)

Feature such as usenet and unrar should be the bottom of the list. People looking for those
features should go the HTPC route.

Most of the potential buyer for SoC player are looking for a decent UI, good AV formats spport, and smooth playback.

I hope your limited resource don't get diverted by niche request.

talas

10-27-07, 03:37 PM

hiya lymzy think your right,people go a little crazy at first..lets see if it can play all the files that it says it can with minum fuss,then go from there ;)

www.mpcclub.com/

blackriders

10-27-07, 07:01 PM

Well only 4 more days. I can't wait.

Edit, if DD+ support is added, how will I be able to play it on my home theater setup. It only supports DD? Will I have to buy new hardware or is this similar to mp3 and mp3pro?

Kaido

10-28-07, 01:20 PM

Is this a new picture with the remote on the Popcorn Hour site? Looks different than the last couple designs:

http://popcornhour.com/

walkoflea

10-28-07, 03:22 PM

Is this a new picture with the remote on the Popcorn Hour site? Looks different than the last couple designs:

http://popcornhour.com/
Yes this showed up a couple of days ago. This is suppose to be the "final" case design and we will see it live in a couple more days.

lymzy

10-29-07, 09:16 AM

popcorn notify me today that order could be placed on 10/30.:)

Seems they got the case!

Richie-rich

10-29-07, 05:50 PM

Yes, me to. waiting for the "Add to basket sign" and waiting to be tanked up.

Richierich

why thangyou.

blackriders

10-29-07, 08:07 PM

One last thing, does the popcorn have file character limitation. I know on the xbmc I sometimes would have to rename the name to something shorter.
I just like to d/l everything and have it with it's original name>

xlr231

10-29-07, 11:30 PM

For playing back DVD rips at 720p how do you think the video quality will be compared to an up converting DVD player?

Hi-Jack

10-30-07, 01:47 AM

About the same. Only with true seperate scalers or scalers in TV (high end) you will get
better results. Some people think too much of upconverting. Imagine using a 8mm films
with errors in it, will these be more visible if blown up or less?

Exactly :-)
Upconverting is good for keeping sharpness and such by blowing up the image but in
general the effect is the same quality movie on a bigger / wider area which offers more
visibility but quality does not change really unless deeper there's also de-interlaze chip
or other enhancement stuff...

d60pdp

10-30-07, 07:04 AM

It's already out of stock!

Johnny

11-01-07, 10:34 PM

I hope your limited resource don't get diverted by niche request.

You mean like what happend with Tvix and mkv:D

Hi-Jack

11-02-07, 01:29 AM

We have eben testing for 4 days now and the NMT firmware is not fully developed yet.
This causes all players, including poPCorn, TOP HD Feeling, Demija and whatever others
using Syabas middleware to have a lot of updates pending before being considered ready.

Al lot is featured but in many ways enhancements are needed to make things smooth
and working better than standard and I feel people should know they are not buying the
perfect media player just yet with any player, even the latest ones...

During our review progress, we constantly sent feedback to Syabas and poPCorn for
enhancements and it's good to know that many of these are fixed before the review is
finalized so Syabas dedication to the NMT is superb and can make these players top of
the bill in a few months with regular updates. (Keep that in miond when reading the prelims
we release to keep people informed)

Just mend as a warning, that there are still things to overcome crucial to enjoying the
unit fully. (Regardless of brand) At this moment, I don't feel it exceeds the current
EM8623 players, it has potential to do so... Big difference...

I like the unit, small and functional, fun to play with.
Ain't ready yet to be the family player or convenient solution it should become over x
months with regular updates... Good start though so it will need people's patience to let
it grow. Since the list of enhancements is already huge, indeed options to turn it into an
xbox for lazy people (who don't want to unpack) should not be expected any time soon
(my opinion, not Syabas or popCorn).

The major lines to improve:

Network perofmance, FLAC added, vorbis added, ISO fix (done already), FTP custom
password, start/stop options for FTP, torrent scheduler, mkv enhancements, file copy
solutions / managment, list browsing during playback, slideshow enhancements (hardware
support for jpeg, now software, leads to 7 seconds load time) and a whole list of other
stuff...

I'm not against rar support if it works fast enough eventually, but feel these things
are "way" more important, adding to the core of what the unit intends to be than RAR
and usenet...

Even with RAR, I doubt anyone will drop the Xbox for it as the xbox does operate faster
and nicer (interface). This is more of an alternative for the xbox with lesser features,
lesser maintenace, more convenience and better quality that feels like a normal player.
I strongly doubt the reason xbox users don't move towards media players is because of
the rar support missing... very strongly dissagree with that... (personal opinion)

Enjoy
Hi-Jack

Hi-Jack

11-02-07, 01:31 AM

You mean like what happend with Tvix and mkv:D

Johny,

Last release beats competition in all aspects with mkv. It even plays better than
the new TOP HD Feeling and other Syabas NMT players at the moment. Your
grutch against DViCo is becoming truly annoying as you set people up with
wrong and useless comments...

Grow up man...
You only making a fool out of yourself here...

madshi

11-02-07, 03:54 AM

At this moment, I don't feel it exceeds the current EM8623 players
Can you give us a bit more details about this? Are you talking about the feature set? Or about file format / bitrate support? Or are you talking about the whole package combined?

Personally, what's important for me to know is if high bitrate stuff plays smoothly over network. That's a must for me. If some features are still missing (but will be added later) I don't mind much...

burrito4891

11-02-07, 06:42 PM

Heh, you know this is probably asking waaaaay too much. But it would be awesome to see a list of side-by-side comparison for the 3 major players on the market right now (tvix 4100, popcorn hour, ???). Those are just my guesses, but it would help to know the performance differences between them, and not just whats listed on the site. I am personally very interested in the mkv support for any of these players, but its still unclear to me if tvix 4100 is better or if popcorn hour is? This might be more appropriate as an article somewhere else..... so hopefully I didn't waste anybody's time :)

cHarOn99

11-02-07, 07:30 PM

in my eyes it is hard to say who is better i think the better question will be who will be better in some weeks or months, as hi-jack said popcorn or better the syabas software is still in developement and only what i can see they make big steps forward.
I´m now i think 3 months with the Top HD Feeling 2008 and Syabas and the last month makes the biggest steps and also it was really nice how fast they fix Problems.
I found an bug report it and 1 week we had an fix, also as hi-jack starts with the popcorn unit it doesnt plays iso files over network anymore 2 days later fixed, also for all the mkv guys around you know the issue with blocky issuses on 5.1

7. Fixed blocky issues for all MKV H.264 HP@L5.1

and thats right now the nice point on syabas, also with teh new 8634/35 you can see there is an full linux now no longer damn uclinux, everything is easier for them to fix things or to add stuff, so as i said so often the future is beginning with 863x and all the following products 862x is near the dead you will see it soon.

Right now the Dvico 4100-5100 is more stable and has an better performance but heh how long is that device in the market and he how many time did they need to get to the now good last firmware.

Dvico has the L5.1 issue, Dvico has optical out problems.

The big difference is how dvico makes firmware and how syabas makes firmware.
you know it is slower on syabas side but this is an result because it is browser based and i think we will see an change in performance :-) but you have more or better easier ways to add things to it or to change things on it.

I think you can go with an 4100 or 5100 and sit back and be happy thats right now the only advantage but we will look and talk about it in 1 or 2 or 3 months and then we will see what happens.

So for me it is the best way to wait some weeks and dont be the first then you will get an good player and thats it and thats it on all devices when they start.

cHarOn

jonn doe

11-02-07, 09:57 PM

Because I am in this decision as my KiSS DP500 has bitten the front panel dust and my LP2 cant play a total show without locking up, that I submit a quick view as to what to buy NOW.

Though the PCH is a neophyte, its potential is worth the purchase.
It will probably exceed most players now, and has the 'next' chip and memory which will be viable for a while.
This is what to acquire.

I was being intoxicated by HiJ superlative reviews into thinking abt 4100 but feel PCH is - to meet the same point - a better direction at less. Maybe temporary, but meets more short and long term desires.

HiJ's prelim review does not extol much abt the PCH but if you read between the lines, its [chip/etc] is the foundation for future. They seem to be able to do a lot with it. Mmmmmm.

So I am going to stick with my earlier decisiong to 'try' the PCH.

Damn, after all these hours on forums, it feels good @ midnight to finally make a decision.

:D

burrito4891

11-03-07, 04:49 PM

Thanks for your opinion cHarOn, that kinda helps me understand what you guys meant about waiting. I'll sit still for the next few months, and cross my fingers that a definitive leader or at least more obvious choice for media player becomes a reality. :cool:

cHarOn99

11-03-07, 04:58 PM

you must know right now many new players are coming dvico with the 6500 device, ziova is on the way with 863x based devices, mvix is also short befor to release new devices oh and also some other brands with Syabas Software in will come more high quality devices nicer looking and more conective options.
So for me right now it is the best way to wait because it cant be that long maybe to januar or februar but then all devices are out with 863x sigma chips which is the future because it is the first with full Linux.

cHarOn

dp70

11-03-07, 05:19 PM

Can we get the title of this thread corrected (MNT -> NMT) to benefit future searchers?

Hi-Jack

11-04-07, 02:16 PM

Yeah, typo there from me :-)

There are only 3 brands I bet money on today based on (prooven) history...
(PS: I'm not saying others are bad or less worthy)

01 - Syabas NMT players (future wise, but PopCorn is quite differen and the
price is a bit misleading if it comes to full DVD players with VFD and all options.
Pricing will be much higher in such case...)
02 - DViCo TviX players
03 - Ziova

These are the brands that shown decent communications with the scene
and worked bloody hard delivering. Syabas was a late bloomer as with the
structure for the EM8620 platform, there was not that much to show for...

Few sleeping brands can surprise us, like Linksys (purchased KiSS and is
getting rid of the problems with them to start over) and NetGear... D-Link
creates a different player for everything that moves (overkill) but could be
surprising us anyway (I hate the brand but hey, that's not the point).

The so called "in between brands" using OEM like Helios and Snazio, Trans-
Gear, Momitsu and DigitalRise and so on... all got caught up in the fact the middleware
previously did not grow with the market (no SMb/NFS, no DVD streaming
etc...) and KiSS-Technology, the only brand to compete with Ziova and
Syabas for "dvd players" got kicked by their own hardware problems and
immature software concentrating on things "we do not need". Everything
we did need most was ignored...

They will all come with new products for sure, but each and everyone has to
proove itself again. Best papers are for Trans-gear (DVX-700e was original
enough and Nagase really put in effort but the brand dissapeared from Eu
market). Momitsu only goes OEM now so forget about hat one too, which
leaves Snazio (hadquite some issues bringing the player up to speed) and
Helios (Quality for audiophiles and reasonable positioning for the community).

Maybe we should add Unibrain with the iZak (Lacie Silverscreen is oem), also
they will come with 2 new units being the iZak2 and iZak3 of which the latest
is SMP8635 and the iZak2 em8623 with network. Problem, they was too
expensive and will be again most likely...

Now MviX is a brand I can simply not recommend from my experience...
The MViX MX-760 has not received a single update since March... That's not
the progress we need players to have to grow along with our needs and this
is not even the issue I have with the MviX. It's the way they implemented
networking features (required installation of protocols and stuff) and in
general, the way the player only delivers upon video...

Tomacro... no comment. Discussed it too much already than is good for my health.

There will be many brands and models to chose from in the coming months
but since these are still not "as cheap" as we like them to be, be carefull as a
wrong choice is so easy to make and it's a sad way of wasting money...

Right now, I am in the camp of saying that PopCorn and other NMT products
have better potential than current units, but current units today outperform
most aspects of the NMT still... It can't compete with the potential, but it
can compete in the field very much...

Pretty much all players still are an option based on your personal needs and
ability to accept stuff going wrong with them yet...

Enjoy

Enjoy

jonn doe

11-04-07, 09:42 PM

HiJx
Thanks again for your excellent overview!
VFD is not really much of an issue for video so that should not be a great issue.
What we have to look at is what satisfies a particular need, and that is to stream as many formats of video from a PC video server. The NMT is aimed expressly at that, and I agree with your comments elsewhere, that some of the 'extras' that people are asking for should only come after proving the basic intended platform.
As I said elsewhere, [I am more of a lurker than a contributor, but] the NMT is the next affordable step to the future for the most people. Forget all the extras, especially torrents [especially if those users have not figured out NGs], even forget about Ngs, just get a good streming player that will handle everything out there and be flexible enough to add new formats. NMT 'seems' to be able to have the potential to do this and it is nice to see a hardware and middleware mfg be working directly together. This to me could be the biggest plus.

Ja Phule

11-04-07, 09:58 PM

blackriders

11-04-07, 11:33 PM

I'm keeping an eye on these new players. Although I'm mostly an XBMC user, I could care less about rar support nor have I ever felt the need for it (and I deal with rars regularly). I'm really interested on how far these players can go in the next few months and how it will compare with the linux/360 ports of XBMC (should it be out soon).

Speaking about xbmc, it's being ported to linux. Would it somehow be possible use that as the software to 'power' a media player.

XBMC plays everything that I can throw it, including softsubs and i've never had a problem with audio dropping.

Hi-Jack

11-05-07, 01:09 AM

No, you can't port that to the media players. First of all, the golden rule is recognizing
that the XBOX is a PC platform and media players run on a media chip based on a SDK
and drivers from Sigma (not available publicly) with the power of a handheld (300Mhz).

John doe, you share totally my opinion except 1 thing... It's "media player" and
not "video player", that said, I would like to see shoutcast implemented or other
webradio option (full list, not just 10 channels for each genre), VFD benefits abilities
to play music without the need of turning on TV's to see selection of folders and files
and so on... PoPCorn not has a display so if forcing the TV, it most be more attractive
and functional to justify the TV to be on where now music section is pretty much
scoring hardly...

Though most will use it for video mainly, there are a lot of people that would love to
properly enjoy music on the sideas well and we have to keep that in mind too. Without
expecting it to be an iPod or Squeezebox, it must fulfill the basic needs for the three parts:
Video - Music - Picture...

(Check my prelim review if not done so yet :-) It offers a good starting point to check
the basics and options: http://www.mpcclub.com/banner_log.php?id=5049 )

Rar, usenet and even USB tuner support come last for me too...
As for streaming, a bottleneck is and remains network performance on these players which
limit the amount of bitrate supported making USB playback or internal HD playback a must
beside the network streaming.

PC will be used often, but most are shifting towards NAS central storage for this leading
to the following issue: Local network performance and setup that can cause different
experiences by user A and B. PopCorn has tremendous potential but has still quite some
things to tune and address to fulfill the expectations people have for a network treamer
which includes some file problems, performance and options handling the files...

Enjoy
Hi-Jack

madshi

11-05-07, 03:03 AM

Right now, I am in the camp of saying that PopCorn and other NMT products have better potential than current units, but current units today outperform most aspects of the NMT still... It can't compete with the potential, but it can compete in the field very much...
In what way do current units outperform NMT? Do you mean in features or do you mean in file format / performance? For me the most important thing is very good file format support, very good decoding performance (high bitrate) and very good network performance (again high bitrate). I need this because I want the player to play Blu-Ray content, which has the highest demands, especially when played from NAS.

phew

11-05-07, 03:54 PM

Is there any mention from any of these developers of a 1 Gigabit Ethernet connection in the future and would the 863x have the available bandwidth to cope?

My current wish list (in no order):
1> No cooling fans
2> No need for local HDD.
...read above as potentially silent, ALL played over network.
3> Fast Ethernet
4> USB playback (HDD/Memory stick/DVD).
5> DVD playback of commercial DVDs.
6> Multi-format media playback.
7> .IFO playback.
8> Simple to follow, -and use-, GUI.
9> Uncluttered, but functional remote control.
10> No 'bells and whistles' at the expense of playback.

madshi

11-05-07, 04:16 PM

I strongly agree with these:

1> No cooling fans
2> No need for local HDD.
...read above as potentially silent, ALL played over network.
3> Fast Ethernet
6> Multi-format media playback.
10> No 'bells and whistles' at the expense of playback.

Deacon Crusher

11-05-07, 05:22 PM

I agree with these (where should developer focus be.?)

1> No cooling fans
2> No need for local HDD.
...read above as potentially silent, ALL played over network.
3> Fast Ethernet (3 is necessary because of 2 and that's how these devices should work and be focused.)
6> Multi-format media playback.
8> Simple to follow, -and use-, GUI.
10> No 'bells and whistles' at the expense of playback.

(I need ISO or IFO and whatever format HD rips will be in, playback, but I can adapt if a player does one perfectly with great menu support and WAF is excellent, just tell me what format to put movies into and I'll migrate there (so long as it's not weird and proprietary.)

thanks

Hi-Jack

11-06-07, 07:49 AM

In what way do current units outperform NMT? Do you mean in features or do you mean in file format / performance? For me the most important thing is very good file format support, very good decoding performance (high bitrate) and very good network performance (again high bitrate). I need this because I want the player to play Blu-Ray content, which has the highest demands, especially when played from NAS.

You might want to read the review to get started... it's 22 pages of feedback.
Basically, in maturity and options that go deeper than absolute basics.
As reported the PCH has some issues left to address concerning DTS and
DD (work in progress to repair these) and streaming over SMB is almost not
working at all (NFS is more stable up to about 30.000 bitrates).

ablevy

11-07-07, 11:57 AM

HiJack, with regard to your description of media servers, I would add the Netgear EVA-8000 as a viable alternative. It's been suffering it's share of growing pains this year, but it has an active beta forum and the latest beta's are adding features, squashing bugs fairly quickly. I think it has lots of potential. I would have seconded your comments about DLink until a couple of months ago. They have suddenly started supporting their users on this forum and are providing much improved firmware. The addition of Action TV and their long time support of Rhapsody and Soutcast on the DSM-520 make for a pretty good box now. That said these boxes are 1 and 2 years old respectively.

Alan

lymzy

11-07-07, 02:52 PM

Has anybody received the popcorn player yet?

Kaido

11-08-07, 11:56 AM

Saw this posted on the Popcorn Hour website:

In view of overwhelming response to the first batch of available units and to be fair to those who signed up early, we will provide registered members the opportunity to make their pre-orders on a "first register, first serve" basis.

From 12th November 2007, we will send out invitation to first batch of registered members, they will have two days to complete their pre-orders using Google Checkout which schedule to ship on 19th November 2007 onwards.

This will be followed by the next batch of registered members, so on and so forth, until we have provided all registered members the opportunity to make the pre-order, before opening it up to newly registered members.

lymzy

11-08-07, 03:36 PM

Saw this posted on the Popcorn Hour website:

Is there a mini review for the first batch Popcorn player?

It is strangely quite. Where are those lucky guys who managed to order one on 10/31?:confused:

farside847

11-08-07, 03:55 PM

Is there a mini review for the first batch Popcorn player?

It is strangely quite. Where are those luck guys who managed to order one on 10/31?:confused:

I do not think they have shipped yet. The website says they will start shipping on monday the 12th, maybe by the end of next week people will start getting them in the mail..... and post..... and show us youtube vids.... ;)

farside847

11-08-07, 03:58 PM

cHarOn99 or HiJack: since you two have seen beta units, have they implemented a content based interface? (cover art, actors, etc) Or is this something that will come later?

thanks!

Hi-Jack

11-09-07, 01:41 AM

No cover art yet...
Could be implemented in the future, don;t know of plans from Syabas or PCH on this feature request...

sansp00

11-09-07, 07:33 AM

str1der

11-09-07, 02:37 PM

This is something that amazed me from the start with Syabas/Sigma (previous/current gen)...
My 3~4 year old Roku HD1000 has cover art support, how come this is so hard to come by with the Syabas middleware/Sigma chip ? This ain't like asking for eye candy or something. It's basic browsing/playing functionality.

Patrick S.

Agree 100%

I'm not buying any player until they get a real interface regardless of how many different formats it plays. I don't think any of these players can really become mainstream until they do.

Kaido

11-09-07, 04:41 PM

Agree 100%

I'm not buying any player until they get a real interface regardless of how many different formats it plays. I don't think any of these players can really become mainstream until they do.

I know, is this some kind of joke? My 7-year-old Xbox running Xbox Media Center hands-down kills everything on the market (as far as SD & proplery-encoded HD goes). The only thing that comes close is Windows Media Center, but even that is not as programmable (not to mention less stable). We're not asking a lot here...a little box to plug into our televisions that replicates the physical experience of flipping through CDs and DVDs and then playing them, without actually having to lift a finger to do it. And easier searching. Maybe we're better off waiting for XBMC-Linux...

blackriders

11-09-07, 06:30 PM

I know, is this some kind of joke? My 7-year-old Xbox running Xbox Media Center hands-down kills everything on the market (as far as SD & proplery-encoded HD goes). The only thing that comes close is Windows Media Center, but even that is not as programmable (not to mention less stable). We're not asking a lot here...a little box to plug into our televisions that replicates the physical experience of flipping through CDs and DVDs and then playing them, without actually having to lift a finger to do it. And easier searching. Maybe we're better off waiting for XBMC-Linux...

Maybe it's just me but I honestly care less about that. I'd rather have popcorn fix the issue with embedded subs, or some other problems that seem to be affecting the popcorn hour. Once they get that done then they can concentrate on cover art.

farside847

11-09-07, 06:48 PM

For me it is more of a WAF issue. (Wife acceptance factor). I would love a device I can hook up to the big tv where the wife and kids can use it too... I might be a geek, but they are not ;)

teddystacker

11-09-07, 06:48 PM

Hi All,

Just received this VERY good news from the Popcorn guys..

Looks like many US buyers will be receiving their units early next week or sooner if they live near the West Coast..

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Teddy,

Sorry to hear that your sister passed away.

I just received US shipment from China factory today and already
shipped out to all US buyer in same day. Your unit has been shipped
out by USPS priority mail
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards To All

Teddy

blackriders

11-09-07, 07:15 PM

teddystacker

11-10-07, 10:23 AM

Teddy, how soon after you get the unit do you think you'll be able to get a review?

@blackriders,

Really despends on what day it arrives,as like many here, I have a "day job",and the media player stuff is just by hobby.But I will do my best to give my opinion of it as soon as I can.I have a 80gb test drive ready to go in it,and as soon as it arrives will install , and fill with some various types of content to test.My review will be a "real world" type one , ie I will be using it as I do everyday and will then compare it to the existing Mediagate products i own,that I also use daily.
I won't be able to really test the HD stuff , as i dont have a HD TV - but will do my very best to give a honest and un-biased opinion.I will also be recording a video of the GUI and operations that I intend to upload this to Youtube as soon as I can , as I know many people are clammering for this..

I will also do my best to answer any ? (however newbie they are) from users I can , both here and at my NMT Yahoo group.

Regards

Teddy

Kaido

11-10-07, 12:54 PM

Maybe it's just me but I honestly care less about that. I'd rather have popcorn fix the issue with embedded subs, or some other problems that seem to be affecting the popcorn hour. Once they get that done then they can concentrate on cover art.

My point was simply that my $100 7-year-old Xbox can do things many commercial players still can't or won't do today...I don't understand why. I'm still very excited for the Popcorn Hour machine as well though! :D

sansp00

11-11-07, 09:57 AM

elee532

11-11-07, 01:24 PM

- Napster and WMV (DRM protected
Requests are launched but as with previous players, i doubt the players will support DRM protected files. Surely can be streamed with the proper PC software installed. (not sure why, think it's a licensing issue)

Can you clarify what you are saying here about DRM protected files? Are you saying that the Popcorn player can play Napster subscription files with the proper PC software installed? What would that software be?

Thanks.

Kaido

11-11-07, 02:17 PM

sansp00

11-11-07, 02:28 PM

if they can do that with a multimedia box in the living room that can play whatever you throw at it, at a Wal-mart price, that's when they'll start selling like crazy. Hopefully the Popcorn Hour machine will be the ticket!
I agree, but I don't think it even needs to play all the format, just the major ones and provide a tools to convert the others. Look at your example, Ipods don't play all the format, just the major ones, but iTunes provides the way to convert/rip the others.

The other nice approach would be to open up the box for outside developers to add to it and not just plug in wise ...

Patrick S.

chuna

11-11-07, 07:24 PM

I dont think grandmas know a lot about networking. These are NETWORK Media players. Things like IPOD is battery operated and requires no knowledge of networks. It is going to be a while before units like these become standard fare and mainstream like normal DVD players. Anything involving a network is only going to be complicated and WILL require some sort of knowledge. Its not your standard plug and play but more of a plug and Pray and hope that all the network etc all gets recognized once the network plug is plugged in. Even Wizards are not going to help if someone is firewalled to the hilt. Grandma may have a PC but her grandson may have put up a firewall to protect it from hacking which grandma has no idea about. Now the complication starts.... Grandma gets upset cause the damn media player is not seeing any files on the computer and cant play anything, so grandma returns the unit calling it faulty. This happens all the time in a network media player.

sansp00

11-12-07, 07:29 AM

True, but this is now reason to have a nice and john doe friendly UI to use after the device is setup.
I stopped counting the amount of people who actually pay to get their TV/Amp/Speakers and so on setup properly. Media players should be alike. But once this is done, it's just supposed to work.
So what you are saying maybe true for the setup part, but after that, it should be smooth sailing in most cases.
Patrick S.

sneals2000

11-12-07, 07:39 AM

A UI is the first thing people (mass market wise) will see looking at a unit, not the codec support. A decent to good UI will make those mainstream, because you may have the best device on earth, if john doe can't use it, it ain't worth much. If someone has a 58 inch plasma TV it ain't to see no freaking file name, it's to see nice pretty pictures and menu animation and all the bells and whistles.

I wholeheartedly agree - the UI is hugely important - both in design and responsiveness.

Most people will not have 12 different codec for music or videos, maybe what 2 to 4 of each. The rest I think they would not mind to convert them to fit with their other content.

Particularly if the conversion is automatic and performed by the host PC running streaming software.

I admit sub's are nice and should be basic functionality.

Yep - I think us native English-speakers forget how important subtitles are to the rest of the world. I'm a fan of French, German, Spanish and Japanese cinema - so subtitles are an issue for me as well - though in this case for DVD replay.

But aside XBMC and Apple TV, I don't see too much effort to simplify make UI's look nice and enjoyable. If Xbox's could do HD properly, their would not be anything else or maybe manufacturer's would pay a bit more attention.

The 360 Extender interface - in XP and Vista - is pretty OK as well.

However I agree that the UIs on many media streamers have been absolutely appalling. The UI is vital to get people to want to use these devices.

Apple TV is very limited in functionality - but what it does do, it does very well. Navigating and playing audio is very good (though I wish you had full Artist, Album etc. navigation within a playlist)

If XBMC ends up running properly on a Linux and things don't move fast enough on the media player side. Im jumping the boat and building myself a mini ITX box with XBMC linux. Something like the gPC (at ~300$) in a smaller case running this would be killer, just need to add a IR receiver.

For me the consistent problem with XBMC is its appalling handling of interlaced material. 50i and 60i stuff is de-interlaced to 25p or 30p (with compromised motion rendition), rather than 50p or 60p. I can't accept that - particularly for HD recordings of native interlaced content (sport and entertainment off-air SD and HD TV recordings)

This is a limitation of the mplayer core I believe - the Xbox can obviously handle proper replay of interlaced SD video as it does this when playing DVDs normally i.e. outside of XBMC.

Hi-Jack

11-12-07, 07:54 AM

I for one agree in dissagree with everything...

01 - Interface is important but not as important as the abilities of the player. It comes
second. Just as the menu might be attractive and what lies underneath is not would
rneder the unit just as useless as it not having a decent user interface. Further, most
units I seen lack design and not abilities to setup so these become difficult to use.

02 - It's nonsense to say that people not have 12 different codecs for music and movies.
They have many more stashed in the different containers available. (Unlike the very few
making their own rips and digital formats but how many do that?)

03 - Subs are not nice but MANDATORY :-)

04 - Even if XBOX would do HD, there'll be planty of people using stand alone devices.
You can't compare a helicopter to a Boeing (XBOX is a PC partially build around illegal
codecs and abilities a manufacturar cannot support). So let's end with the comparisson
already. it only prooves some have no clue about the differences and possibilities on
either platform. Like said, bith Helicopte and Boeiing can "fly" but one is totally different
than the other. The EM8634/35 will never become an XBOX equivalent or even close but
beats the XBMX in Quality and HD.

I support the quest for better and nicer interface, using GFX etc.. but dissagree
stroingly this is what we buy it for. We buy it for handling a wide range of files for us
with the convenience of a standalone DVD player as we know, integrated with NAS to
avoid usage of PC.

If you want something to compare to TViX and handle HD as well, get HTPC, invest only
2.000 Euro for that and you'll have it. Don't expect it for 179$ and with the limited specs
as it ain't designed for it and it will "never come"to have such advanced interface as
XBMC...

Now you can all start shoot me again. I'm used to it :-)

Enjoy
Hi-Jack

sansp00

11-12-07, 12:25 PM

Hey, I won't shoot, Im a big fan of yours but ...

I for one agree in dissagree with everything...
01 - Interface is important but not as important as the abilities of the player. It comes
second. Just as the menu might be attractive and what lies underneath is not would
rneder the unit just as useless as it not having a decent user interface. Further, most
units I seen lack design and not abilities to setup so these become difficult to use.

Both are equally important, but right now the market is WAY TOO MUCH oriented towards the codec support which is my problem with this.

02 - It's nonsense to say that people not have 12 different codecs for music and movies.
They have many more stashed in the different containers available. (Unlike the very few
making their own rips and digital formats but how many do that?)

People should own the content, therefore rip it themselves or buy it online. AFAIK, online content is not spread in a gazillion format/codec, thus limiting
the needed support.
FYI, I rip my own stuff and limit myself to the most used codecs/format

03 - Subs are not nice but MANDATORY :-)

Amen to that !

04 - Even if XBOX would do HD, there'll be planty of people using stand alone devices.
You can't compare a helicopter to a Boeing (XBOX is a PC partially build around illegal
codecs and abilities a manufacturar cannot support). So let's end with the comparisson
already. it only prooves some have no clue about the differences and possibilities on
either platform. Like said, bith Helicopte and Boeiing can "fly" but one is totally different
than the other. The EM8634/35 will never become an XBOX equivalent or even close but
beats the XBMX in Quality and HD.

If XBMC could do HD, why would anybody buy a media player with a UI that sucks when something cheaper or comparable in price with more support, functionality and ease of use is available ?!?
It's still a little black box in the end, be it a PC or Sigma chip, if they do the same things, people won't care ... The only issue with XBMC is that fact that it's not backed by a big company and it may not be completely legit.

If you want something to compare to TViX and handle HD as well, get HTPC, invest only
2.000 Euro for that and you'll have it. Don't expect it for 179$ and with the limited specs
as it ain't designed for it and it will "never come"to have such advanced interface as
XBMC...

Well, before players could do proper HD (not so long ago), a Xbox did all (and more) of the functionality that they implemented at THE SAME (close and sometimes cheaper) price !?!

The Xbox/ATV may be a PC in disguise, but people don't see it/use it that way. If the ATV was a bit more flexible and powerful or the Xbox updated, I wouldn't even be here, I would have one and be a happy camper, but it's not the case ... A HTPC is too cumbersome and expensive for my taste.

Im still amazed ATI left that business and that Sigma seemed to be the lone entity there. A little competition would certainly bring better products ...

Patrick S.

Hi-Jack

11-12-07, 01:15 PM

Well, there is competition but most chips have even worse issues than Sigma faces. I
would love the beatifull interface and make a little box as good as "a PC" (what Xbox is
by the way :-) ) but it is not feasible to do that with the hardware platform. yes it can
be improved and we hope for it as much as anyone else remaining realistic that it
probably never will become as important as supporting codecs unless it has the
hardware to back things up and break open these possibilities.

That kind of explains about the concentration partially as well.

You are a rare case of one making it's own backups. Most of the time people download
from several sources and beside that rip some or all of their content to digital format
but it must be clear that 90% owning these type of products are downloading content,
rather owning a HTPC, XBOX or a NMT.

People should own the content...?
True... They should, but mostly they don't... and that's where the major need for
codecs come from. The interface mainly improves the fact the players are gaining a
better position in families with 1 or more wifes and kids. For the die hard media fan
(downloading it's content) support for files and options on these files usually exceed the
need of a nice interface. I'm ok with simple interface as long as it delivers on the files. If
ever only best of both can be combined, hell yeah... it will carry further. if however it
comes down to selection i prefer augly and good support / features over nice and hardly
capable of anything...

Thank you for not shooting me... :-)
Enjoy

Kaido

11-12-07, 01:55 PM

I agree, but I don't think it even needs to play all the format, just the major ones and provide a tools to convert the others. Look at your example, Ipods don't play all the format, just the major ones, but iTunes provides the way to convert/rip the others.

The other nice approach would be to open up the box for outside developers to add to it and not just plug in wise ...

Patrick S.

That's a good point. Also, one of my major interests in the Popcorn Hour is that they advertise it as programmable, both with programs and with the GUI. Being able to write custom programs to do things like fetch coverart off a central NAS or tweak the GUI to just how I want it would be absolutely perfect for me. I hope I get an email to pre-order for the next round soon lol!

grambo

11-12-07, 02:05 PM

I've got a question on the Popcorn box, is the interface real file browsing (over SMB shares) or is it indexed like the Netgear EVA800? I'm trying to choose between the EVA800 and the Popcorn and the lack of real file browsing in the EVA800 bugs me.

Right now I have an Xbox w/ XBMC and love the interface. The only reason I want something new is to play HD content (mainly 720p/1080p MKV files using h264 as well as in the future store HD-DVD/Blu-ray full rips thus with EVO files).

From what I've read, it seems like the Popcorn has the potential to play higher bitrate HD content over the wired network (when they fix performance) than the EVA800 which is having problems with 1080p at any decent rate.

Thanks

chuna

11-12-07, 04:52 PM

That's a good point. Also, one of my major interests in the Popcorn Hour is that they advertise it as programmable, both with programs and with the GUI. Being able to write custom programs to do things like fetch coverart off a central NAS or tweak the GUI to just how I want it would be absolutely perfect for me. I hope I get an email to pre-order for the next round soon lol!

Well so they say.....

Every manufacturer is "SUPPOSED" to release the GPL source code by law not just Popcorn. Unfortunately not all manufacturers comply with this. So writing your own custom program is nothing new. BTW Ziova has been doing this with the 8620 chip for a while now where the GUI is skinnable and GPL code released

lymzy

11-12-07, 10:27 PM

Hi Jack

Again I agree with you. :D

First nail the codec and sub!

Actually, the single most important reason that I give up Vista MCE is no decent sub support!

UI doesn't need to be fancy. A simple and elegent text based UI is a good start.

Cover art could always be added later...:)

Product like popcorn will always be a niche. Therefore it doesn't necessarily need mass appeal from the begining.

Just be robust at streaming and decoding is well worth the price!

sansp00

11-13-07, 07:26 AM

me23

11-13-07, 10:56 AM

Is there any way a player like PCH or any other have some kind of parental controls. Password to play R movie, etc.

lymzy

11-13-07, 12:04 PM

Well, too me, mass market would mean prices would go down and other industry players jumping in (if there is interest, they will come). Thus more competition, more features and so on.

People have more and more digital media and don't really have a second PC to spare as a HTPC. I would rather watch my pictures, videos and listen to my music on my home theater system than my lousy iPod, PC in the basement/office. I don't think I'm the only one ...

The potential is there, it's just that most of the device a) don't appeal to mass market b) too complex to use and setup c) don't do what there supposed/advertised to d) look and feel like crap e) come from obscure companies with little to no support.

There are exceptions, but very few ...
Patrick S.

DVD player is a mass item because DVD is a mass item.
OPPO upconvert DVD player is a mass item again because DVD and HDTV are mass item.

What makes streamer like Popcorn a mass item? HD DVD/Bluray Rippers? Usenet users? BTers?

AFAIK, nobody delivery HD movies directly to your HDD without DRM. So where is most of you HD video content coming from? OTA or HDV? Are you saying to get those HD movies onto your HDD/NAS is a mass market thing?

Big guys won't jump in because 1) licensing and legal issues 2) pressure from content providers.

Do we have any decent CE DVD streamer from any big brand yet? If not, why? Why Sony even bother to push a huge DVD exchanger instead of a streamer?

Also, does it occur to you that most of those 8634/8620 based streamer is made by "obscure companies" from China and Korea?

Last, most of the Blu-ray player is 8634 based. Why not provide streaming function as well? Why content providers want Bluray manufactures to disable support for BDMV playback from BD-R/RE?

Sorry, I could go on and on that why streamer like popcorn will not be a mass market item. But this is OK because unlike Kaleidescape, Popcorn is already dirty cheap. :)

chuna

11-13-07, 05:13 PM

DVD player is a mass item because DVD is a mass item.
OPPO upconvert DVD player is a mass item again because DVD and HDTV are mass item.

What makes streamer like Popcorn a mass item? HD DVD/Bluray Rippers? Usenet users? BTers?

AFAIK, nobody delivery HD movies directly to your HDD without DRM. So where is most of you HD video content coming from? OTA or HDV? Are you saying to get those HD movies onto your HDD/NAS is a mass market thing?

Big guys won't jump in because 1) licensing and legal issues 2) pressure from content providers.

Do we have any decent CE DVD streamer from any big brand yet? If not, why? Why Sony even bother to push a huge DVD exchanger instead of a streamer?

Also, does it occur to you that most of those 8634/8620 based streamer is made by "obscure companies" from China and Korea?

Last, most of the Blu-ray player is 8634 based. Why not provide streaming function as well? Why content providers want Bluray manufactures to disable support for BDMV playback from BD-R/RE?

Sorry, I could go on and on that why streamer like popcorn will not be a mass market item. But this is OK because unlike Kaleidescape, Popcorn is already dirty cheap. :)

All absolutely TRUE facts and totally agree with you. However dont agree with you on the obscure companies making streamers from China and Korea. I certainly dont regard Netgear, Dlink and Linksys as obscure companies. Obviously there is a market for them just not mass market. IMO streamers will never become a mass market until Hollywood decides to market movies freely and HD movies are available to download freely or for like $2 or $3 a movie. You can argue the point all you want but streamers will always remain a niche product.

cHarOn99

11-13-07, 06:15 PM

DVD player is a mass item because DVD is a mass item.
do you really think that also as dvd was anounced at the first time?

OPPO upconvert DVD player is a mass item again because DVD and HDTV are mass item.
how was it at the beginning really an mass item?!

What makes streamer like Popcorn a mass item? HD DVD/Bluray Rippers? Usenet users? BTers?
there is an big growing point on mediastreamers, also an big point is internet TV, generally internet content, this will be more in the next years!! oh and yes right now the big buyers are rippers and downloaders but in the future or better already here inet gets faster and online content online music, online tv, online photo albums, .......... are already here and this part grows also really fast!

AFAIK, nobody delivery HD movies directly to your HDD without DRM. So where is most of you HD video content coming from? OTA or HDV? Are you saying to get those HD movies onto your HDD/NAS is a mass market thing?
why without DRM?! no problem DRM can be or is already included in popcorn like cadera license, also for itunes!!! there is no problem to include drm so i dont see an problem on that?!

Big guys won't jump in because 1) licensing and legal issues 2) pressure from content providers.
again wrong big companies will release soon devices maybe Blueray players with lan and also streaming functions also over internet, so you are a little bit misinformed

Do we have any decent CE DVD streamer from any big brand yet? If not, why? Why Sony even bother to push a huge DVD exchanger instead of a streamer?
they are already in developement, because no brand cant close the eyes and dont wanna loose market

Also, does it occur to you that most of those 8634/8620 based streamer is made by "obscure companies" from China and Korea?
ah ok so the big brand dont produce players in china hahaha. Linksys, Netgear are not little. Also do you know Audiolab they are also already developing an really Audio Video Streamer for the highend, but we will talk in 2008 if you can see what BIG ones come out

Last, most of the Blu-ray player is 8634 based. Why not provide streaming function as well? Why content providers want Bluray manufactures to disable support for BDMV playback from BD-R/RE?
they will include it not all but some also big ones

Sorry, I could go on and on that why streamer like popcorn will not be a mass market item. But this is OK because unlike Kaleidescape, Popcorn is already dirty cheap. :)
popcorn is the first company which comes over the sea to europe and stays also in usa and has all licenses and that is only the start the first device is bad because it has an damn case but next device will be better you will see it ;-) popcorn makes an new race in the streamer market and thats good, dvico is scared they try now everything to hold against them you will know that when more news come out about the 6500 Dvico, you will see features what wouldnt be included if syabas didnt come out with such features!!

But we will see what us 2008 and 2009 brings but i can tell you that the streamer market grows really fast so it cant be that bad :-)
Oh and sorry for my bad english i hope you understand what i mean.

cHarOn

cHarOn99

11-13-07, 06:25 PM

oh one thing you must know why 8634/35 comes out big companies are behind sigma who push that like intel, microsoft and many others thats the reason why i ever said wait for 863x players because 863x is the beginning and you will see now big steps right now we have 300mhz 863x in maybe 3 or 4 months an 500mhz sigma comes out so there is no small market because if it is that small big companies wouldnt push this market and they do but more in the background right now, i mean you dont see many news on that :-)

cHarOn

str1der

11-13-07, 06:55 PM

Shot I'd be happy if it just pulled a folder.jpg out of each movie folder and used that instead of the text. It wouldn't even have to look up anything.

lymzy

11-13-07, 07:09 PM

do you really think that also as dvd was anounced at the first time?

My point is that for streamer like Popcorn to become a mass item, there has to be a mass HD content delivery method on the other end of the chain.

I just don't see that happening with an open system like popcorn. A closed system like xbox360, maybe.

there is an big growing point on mediastreamers, also an big point is internet TV, generally internet content, this will be more in the next years!! oh and yes right now the big buyers are rippers and downloaders but in the future or better already here inet gets faster and online content online music, online tv, online photo albums, .......... are already here and this part grows also really fast! ?

My focus is on HD content. Because that's what make popcorn worthwhile. Package media is a proven business model. I am not so sure about HD over net. Youtube sure, but not movie with bitrate between 25-35Mbps.

why without DRM?! no problem DRM can be or is already included in popcorn like cadera license, also for itunes!!! there is no problem to include drm so i dont see an problem on that?!?

Again, let's wait for AACS to nail manage copy for HDM first before we are talking about DRMed hiqh quality content delivering to HDD.:)

again wrong big companies will release soon devices maybe Blueray players with lan and also streaming functions also over internet, so you are a little bit misinformed

HD DVD players already has LAN, where are the streaming functions? Pioneer bluray player does have streaming function, but does anybody talk about it?

they are already in developement, because no brand cant close the eyes and dont wanna loose market

Oh, they can and they have to because of this (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071104-dvd-licensing-group-to-vote-on-closing-copying-loophole.html).

Vista MCE already has dvd streaming function, why require a reg hack to enable it?

Linksys, Netgear are not little. Also do you know Audiolab they are also already developing an really Audio Video Streamer for the highend, but we will talk in 2008 if you can see what BIG ones come out

Is Linksys/Netgear an open system? Could they play HD DVD/Bluray rips?

BIG names won't come out until the manage copy for HDM is nailed in AACS final version.

cHarOn99

11-14-07, 12:55 AM

Ok now i have your point :-) but again i say we will see what 2008/2009 comes out, but you are right no big companie will bring out streamingfunctions for Bluerayrips, or HDDVD (right now). But over Inet HD Content why not look at HD Flash movies or HD Divx Movies there shouldnt be an Problem (I know divx wouldnt be as an offical Moviecodec) but only some points, right now you can get normaly an 4MB/sec line and not everywhere now but you can get 16Mbit and more.

Microsoft will add streaming DIVX to the xbox360, i think they will add more also, but yes you are right there are big license Problems :-) but heh not our Problem but Microsoft needs todo something because xbox360 sucks for streaming.

That was what i mean that also big companies will come out.

But now i better understand what you mean and you are right on some points but not on all :-).

cHarOn