This is a pretty bold statement.



Blu-ray boss: HD DVD is not good enough
02 Sep 2007 12:57 GMT

The HD DVD disc format is inferior to Blu-ray and does not offer enough capacity for modern day HD movies. That's the view of Frank Simonis, the chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association, who made the comments in an interview with Tech.co.uk.

"The majority of Hollywood studios have chosen Blu-ray not because we have asked them to - we let them make up their own mind. They choose Blu-ray because it is the superior format," Simonis said.

"For Disney to do the movie Cars in HD including the interactivity, a 50GB disc is needed. Pirates Of The Caribbean you couldn't do on an HD DVD disc. You'd have to have multiple discs. How can that be a good thing?

"Should you stop half way and say 'let's have a pee and then continue'? No that does not work. The movie is that long. And HD DVD is simply not good enough to carry that, or it would discriminate the quality.

HD DVD too small?
"Take Disney's Cars. You look at the depth of the graphical animation in that movie and HD DVD would discriminate that part. Therefore the studio's choice was clear. HD DVD is not good enough. Blu-ray is the only format which has the 50GB.

"HD DVD tried to counter that with the statement that they could make a three-layer disc, but that's just a statement. I have never seen any product that can handle that, and nor did I see the title ever coming alive. They create mist in a market where they should in fact clarify the situation and satisfy the consumer's needs," Simonis said.

He also went on to say that it is not true that HD DVD players are cheaper to produce than Blu-ray ones. He said that Toshiba and other HD DVD manufacturers are heavily subsidising the players to make them a more attractive proposition.

"Both format players use the same back-end decoders so the video and the audio is nearly similar. And I can't imagine that an optical mechanism for HD DVD and Blu-ray has a big spread in cost - the expensive part is the blue laser. Technology-wise, there is not a major difference.

"They do something else in their marketing [to make this possible]. Now, I don't know how deep their pockets are but I hear the rumour that they spent $150m just to get one studio over. Perhaps they like to play that game, and I wish them a lot of luck.

"Because at the end of the day we believe in fair competition between the different hardware manufacturers to make a business all based on our own model. Not on subsidised pricing in the products."

Frank Simonis is also the senior director of communications at Philips.



SOURCE (http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/high-definition/news/blu-ray-boss-hd-dvd-is-not-good-enough?articleid=80768583)

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I don't see that .. is it not in the bolded parts?

Edit- Oops saw it now it's in the title. The full title is quite funny though

Blu-ray boss: HD DVD is not good enough

Well, if the chairman of the BDA thinks that way,.. that's good enough for me. :)

-Brian

You are a little late with this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=901393&highlight=Simonis

why didn't you add to the title "according to the chairman of the BDA"? If I didn't know any better, I'd say you purposely worded the title this way to get some negative reaction from HD DVD fans.

Wait a second... So you're saying the chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association doesn't think HD-DVD is as good as Blu-Ray? I am really surprised! :rolleyes:

Anyway, this is old "news"--so this thread should probably go away.

This thread has 0 win factor.

So does one of the competing next gen home video formats. :)

Whilst I agree that HD DVD is not good enough, this was covered almost a month ago.

Use da' search function mon!

Hi, my name is "month ago", can I have my post back?

Yet more crap from the BDA. It's funny how they badmouth the competition all of the time. Oh, and you are way behind again.

Well that settles it then. It's clear the Blu-ray disc association likes Blu-ray.

What we need is a thread title that says "BDA goes Blu".

I think it's hilarious you say this is such a bold statement. As if the BDA has never said anything negative about HD DVD until now. hopefully the mods close this soon. They have been made aware of this thread.

What is is with Blu-Ray fans and the offensive thread titles?

This is old news, and the title should be renamed to "Blu-ray boss: HD DVD is not good enough."

I would say the same for BR too.

Quote "Whilst I agree that HD DVD is not good enough, this was covered almost a month ago."

Too funny, some people realized this more then a month ago.

Is it just me or has the BDA been switching tactics. It's gone from "WE'VE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mission Acomplished" to "HD DVD sucks, plz don't buy them, you're only hurting yourself" lately.

Quote "Is it just me or does the BDA switching tactics. It's gone from "WE'VE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mission Acomplished" to "HD DVD sucks, plz don't buy them, you're only hurting yourself" lately."

I would agree. Still think they are right on all accounts though. They won,.. but some people seem un-able to admit or see it, thus explains the shift.

-Brian

What is is with Blu-Ray fans and the offensive thread titles?

This is old news, and the title should be renamed to "Blu-ray boss: HD DVD is not good enough."

I would say the same for BR too.

I posted the title of the aritcle. No alterations.


Whilst I agree that HD DVD is not good enough, this was covered almost a month ago.

Use da' search function mon!
I did and found nothing but I didn't look/search in the HD DVD forums.
I would figure a thread like this would be reason for a lynching in that forum but someone was brave.;)

I've heard the 2:1 pitch but never seen a statement so bold to say that HD DVD is not good enough.

Maybe, just maybe one day there will be a discernable difference between the two formats PQ wise. For "mainstream" though HD-DVD is more than good enough for J6P (and I consider myself a J12P). Heck, DVD is still more than good enough for many people with HD sets receiving HD channels!

Maybe with true color, HDMI 1.3 etc one day Blu-Ray will be able to accomplish things that HD-DVD can't. Then again this might be 2-4 years off and presumably by then HD-DVD would have 51GB three later discs of another format will come along (a UNIFIED format) that will kick both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD to the curb.

For most folks (including many discerning folks on these forums) HD-DVD provides one hell of an experience. For "mainstream" HD-DVD seems better position as the disc prices could be lowered if they needed them to. I doubt Blu-Ray could be profitable if they lowered their discs $5-$7 on average. I base this info based on reading the costs involved for production for HD-DVD 30GB and Blue Ray 50GB. I don't have the links on hand but obviosly I have read this on some of Amir's posts and responses to his posts. If Blu-Ray survives I'm sure that the cost per disc to manufacture would go down as yields improve and there are more lines to press them on.

In the future there is no reason either format couldn't go "mainstream". In the near future HD-DVD seems to have the upper hand with more lines to press discs from and a more consumer friendly entry price for a player. The Venturer if it comes to fruiition at a sub $200 price point will go a long way towards this. The low entry price of HD-DVD seems to be much lower, much quicker than I remember from DVDs early days (feel free to correct me if I am wrong).

This is like Ford saying that GM cars are no good! Hahahaha.

Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess.

I love the part about "subsidization" by Toshiba, yet the #1 BD player (PS3) is the most subsized player of any format out right now..

Good one..

What a lame excuse for a thread!

Quote "Is it just me or does the BDA switching tactics. It's gone from "WE'VE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mission Acomplished" to "HD DVD sucks, plz don't buy them, you're only hurting yourself" lately."

I would agree. Still think they are right on all accounts though. They won,.. but some people seem un-able to admit or see it, thus explains the shift.

-Brian

I think it shows fear and desperation. Its weird because they are ahead, even though sales for both are dismal. They must not be able to compete on price so this is their answer.

"Please don't buy HD DVD! Buy Blu-Ray! Sure a Blu-Ray player costs twice as much! And since we can't get our act together and finalize the specs you'll end up triple dipping on Blu-Ray players! But that doesn't matter because we reallllllllly want you to buy or product!"

I posted the title of the aritcle. No alterations.



You know what you did! You made the title look like a fact and did not attribute it to Mr. BDA, which would destroy its credibility.

I think it shows fear and desperation. Its weird because they are ahead, even though sales for both are dismal. They must not be able to compete on price so this is their answer.

They have done nothing but maintain their sales lead. They haven't shown an ounce of progress regardless of anything they've done. Dropped prices. Subsidized PS3. Promotions. Advertising. Fear & Smear campaigns.

Jan 1 2007 showed BD with a 63% sales ratio
Last week showed BD with a 63% sales ratio

They aren't going anywhere.. regardless of what they do they can't seem to progress.

Neither can HD-DVD mind you.... but i'd be a lot more worried about not showing any signs of growth or market gain with all those subsidized PS3s on the market.

You know what you did! You made the title look like a fact and did not attribute it to Mr. BDA, which would destroy its credibility.Come on, I posted the article in it's entirety with source and who made the comment. I could have edited it and left out important facts and not posted the source.


I thought this thread would bring some light hearted humor on some of these rediculous comments made by the chairman of the BDA but it seems the tension is too high around here for you HD DVD lobbyists for any light hearted quotes that it's stickly business or BD profile 1.0/2.0 bashing these days at AVS in this forum.:rolleyes:

Every time I read threads like these I remember that that HDM accounts for a whoppin ONE percent of sales right now.

So with the "game" 1% over either side claiming victory is analagous to:

Top of the first innning strike 1 on the outside corner -

Pitcher starts screaming: GAME OVER, give up, get out of the batter's box, can't you see I can paint this outside corner all day? Can't you tell that you're inferior and it is futile for you to try and swing that silly bat and try and hit my stuff? Give up, give up now!!! I insist. Why are you wasting your time and the fans time? You know I'm better but you insist on fighting, let me ask you again - DID YOU SEE THE FIRST PITCH I THREW!?!?!?

Why delay the inevitable outcome of my victory and torture everyone involved, why are you so stupid? why don't you quit? I can only improve and you can't...............

Too funny, some people realized this more then a month ago.

We really need more science on this forum and less of the above fanboyism.

In other news, Ford CEO claims Ford is best car company. Apple spokesperson claims Apple is better than PC. Sony claims Sony MP3 players superior to iPods. DirectTV spokesperson claims satellite superior to cable.

You are really loosing your time with this thread, the guy is a salesman. Of course he is going to state that is grass is greener than... Doing otherwise would cost him is job.

Quote "They have done nothing but maintain their sales lead"

As long as it's maintained I think that should be good enough.

-Brian

We really need more science on this forum and less of the above fanboyism.

CAN I GET AN... AMEN?!!!

I love the comment on the Cars disc. He is right though, you couldn't do the Cars Blu-ray on HD DVD because HD DVD doesn't have enough space for the two seperate encodes that are on the Blu-ray disc. One with the features and one of just the movie, like they've done with so many other PiP releases. What they could do is have Cars on HD DVD with a single encode and interactive features that actually work.

Quote "What they could do is have Cars on HD DVD with a single encode and interactive features that actually work."

They could but Disney is all about the Blu.

=Brian

Whilst I agree that HD DVD is not good enoughYou put it a bit stronger on another site

"HD DVD is crap, plain and simple"

Quote "They have done nothing but maintain their sales lead"

As long as it's maintained I think that should be good enough.

-Brian


Good enough to ensure a dual format society. Until of course, a studio or two get fed up with the lack of momentum/compatibility issues/or costs associated and moves to the other side.

Then we could see BD not maintaining anymore but in fact losing market share.. which could then guarantee a HD-DVD society.

How's those Denon and Samsung players coming along? How many studios have dumped the format recently?

So this is why BD needs more storage space? For dual encodes because they can't get their profile 1.1 to work?

BD - STILL trying to go where HD DVD has already been.

I wonder how peeved Disney get at comments like this. Surely their team know Cars and POTC could easily be recreated on HDDVD and probably with a better user expereince (afterall Disney did help creat HDDVDs HDi interactivity system). So having hardware folk misslead the press through using Disneys name isn't going to impress them.

Remember Sony blaming Samsungs BD player for the poor quality of early Blu-Ray releases and now look where Samsung is - dual format.

Moral of the story: fighting dirty doesn't win you friends.

Quote "I wonder how peeved Disney get at comments like this. Surely their team know Cars and POTC could easily be recreated on HDDVD and probably with a better user expereince (afterall Disney did help creat HDDVDs HDi interactivity system). So having hardware folk misslead the press through using Disneys name isn't going to impress them."

Could this be another "I think this is leading to Disney going neutral soon" type of thread post because I haven't seen one of those in a while and I sort of miss them. (They crack me up.)

-Brian

Quote "I wonder how peeved Disney get at comments like this. Surely their team know Cars and POTC could easily be recreated on HDDVD and probably with a better user expereince (afterall Disney did help creat HDDVDs HDi interactivity system). So having hardware folk misslead the press through using Disneys name isn't going to impress them."

Could this be another "I think this is leading to Disney going neutral soon" type of thread post because I haven't seen one of those in a while and I sort of miss them. (They crack me up.)

-Brian


No Disney will be one of the last to go.. IMO.. They really have nothing to gain or lose being the size of the HDM market. They'd much rather save face.. especially with the blatent media comments regarding "superior format".

They will go neutral/exlclusive right before Sony Pictures does.

With the lack of releases on Disney's part.. nobody really cares.

Heh, I believe the OP was the same guy who brought us the "Wal Mart now carrying Blu Ray players!" thread several months after everyone else knew this - more of the same here - always factor in the source, then take it from there....this thread stinks.

That's strange,.. I have several Disney Blu Rays and several more are coming. What's the lack of releases you speak of?

Here's a partial list...

Disney / Buena Vista (71 titles)


Title

Studio

Release date
Annapolis Disney / Buena Vista Nov 21, 2006
Apocalypto Disney / Buena Vista May 22, 2007
Armageddon Disney / Buena Vista -
Badder Santa: Unrated Disney / Buena Vista Nov 20, 2007
Blu-ray 4-Pack: Action Movies Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
Blu-ray 4-Pack: Disney Movies Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
Blu-ray 4-Pack: Family Movies Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
Bridge to Terabithia Disney / Buena Vista Jun 19, 2007
The Brothers Grimm Disney / Buena Vista Oct 17, 2006
Cars Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
Casanova Disney / Buena Vista Jan 23, 2007
Chicago Disney / Buena Vista Jan 23, 2007
Chicken Little Disney / Buena Vista Mar 20, 2007
The Chronicles of Narnia Disney / Buena Vista Spring 2008
Con Air Disney / Buena Vista -
Crimson Tide Disney / Buena Vista -
Dark Water Disney / Buena Vista Oct 17, 2006
Deja Vu Disney / Buena Vista Apr 24, 2007
Dinosaur Disney / Buena Vista Sep 19, 2006
Eight Below Disney / Buena Vista Sep 19, 2006
Enemy of the State Disney / Buena Vista Nov 21, 2006
Everest Disney / Buena Vista -
Finding Nemo Disney / Buena Vista Fall 2008
Finding Neverland Disney / Buena Vista Mar 20, 2007
Flightplan Disney / Buena Vista Dec 19, 2006
G.I. Jane Disney / Buena Vista Apr 03, 2007
Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence Disney / Buena Vista -
Glory Road Disney / Buena Vista Oct 17, 2006
Goal! The Dream Begins Disney / Buena Vista Nov 21, 2006
Gone in 60 Seconds Disney / Buena Vista Oct 17, 2006
The Great Raid Disney / Buena Vista Sep 19, 2006
The Guardian Disney / Buena Vista Jan 23, 2007
The Haunted Mansion Disney / Buena Vista Oct 17, 2006
Hero Disney / Buena Vista -
High School Musical 2: Extended Edition Disney / Buena Vista Dec 11, 2007
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Disney / Buena Vista Jan 23, 2007
The Hoax Disney / Buena Vista -
The Incredibles Disney / Buena Vista -
Invincible Disney / Buena Vista Dec 19, 2006
The Invisible Disney / Buena Vista Oct 16, 2007
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back Disney / Buena Vista Sep 19, 2006
Kill Bill Vol. 1 Disney / Buena Vista -
King Arthur: Director's Cut Disney / Buena Vista Apr 03, 2007
Ladder 49 Disney / Buena Vista Feb 13, 2007
The Lookout Disney / Buena Vista Aug 14, 2007
Lost: The Complete Third Season Disney / Buena Vista Dec 11, 2007
Meet the Robinsons Disney / Buena Vista Oct 23, 2007
National Treasure Disney / Buena Vista Summer 2008
Open Range Disney / Buena Vista Summer 2007
Pearl Harbor Disney / Buena Vista Dec 19, 2006
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Disney / Buena Vista Dec 04, 2007
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest Disney / Buena Vista May 22, 2007
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl Disney / Buena Vista May 22, 2007
Pixar Short Films Collection, Vol. 1 Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
The Prestige Disney / Buena Vista Feb 20, 2007
Primeval Disney / Buena Vista Jun 12, 2007
The Queen Disney / Buena Vista Apr 24, 2007
Ratatouille Disney / Buena Vista Nov 06, 2007
The Recruit Disney / Buena Vista Summer 2007
Reign of Fire Disney / Buena Vista Feb 13, 2007
Remember the Titans Disney / Buena Vista Sep 04, 2007
Roving Mars (IMAX) Disney / Buena Vista Jul 31, 2007
The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause Disney / Buena Vista Nov 20, 2007
Scary Movie Disney / Buena Vista Oct 23, 2007
Sin City Disney / Buena Vista -
Sky High Disney / Buena Vista Nov 21, 2006
Sleeping Beauty Disney / Buena Vista Fall 2008
The Rock Disney / Buena Vista -
Underdog Disney / Buena Vista Dec 18, 2007
The Wild Disney / Buena Vista Nov 21, 2006
Wild Hogs Disney / Buena Vista Aug 14, 2007

A handfull of those don't have release dates though.. but I wouldn't say them been slacking off like Universal or anything like that.

The POTC discs look great but who's in charge of quality control???

How do you release the "Liars Dice" game on the disc that doesn't work right???

When such a huge error gets through I wonder do they even care about quality control? Are there idiots who are working on these things? Even so, how much testing is going on before it ships, you couldn't spot THIS???

HD DVD is not good enough but Blu Ray is still releasing films on BD25's with mpeg2. :rolleyes:

That's strange,.. I have several Disney Blu Rays and several more are coming. What's the lack of releases you speak of?

A handfull of those don't have release dates though.. but I wouldn't say them been slacking off like Universal or anything like that.

I'd prefer to talk about titles that have been released.

HD DVD is not good enough but Blu Ray is still releasing films on BD25's with mpeg2. :rolleyes:

Decade old codec confirmed by most video engineers to require 2-3X more bitrate than VC-1 or AVC.

But nobody ever likes to comment on that from the BD side. I've brought it up several times.

who's in charge of quality control

...same guy that took a lunch break during a certain 8 minute stretch of CotBP (framing is off)...

The POTC discs look great but who's in charge of quality control???

How do you release the "Liars Dice" game on the disc that doesn't work right???

When such a huge error gets through I wonder do they even care about quality control? Are there idiots who are working on these things? Even so, how much testing is going on before it ships, you couldn't spot THIS???
Can you elaborate on your first hand experience with the 'Liars Dice" game that doesn't work ?
Or are you referring to the old youtube vid as your reference ?

I've played it on a BDP-S300 and BD-P1200 with no issues. so has countless others.

Hey,

quote "I'd prefer to talk about titles that have been released."

That's not a list of upcoming releases most of those have been released!

-Brian

Heh, I believe the OP was the same guy who brought us the "Wal Mart now carrying Blu Ray players!" thread several months after everyone else knew this - more of the same here - always factor in the source, then take it from there....this thread stinks.
Shills - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

Can you elaborate on your first hand experience with the 'Liars Dice" game that doesn't work ?
Or are you referring to the old youtube vid as your reference ?

I've played it on a BDP-S300 and BD-P1200 with no issues. so has countless others.

It doesn't work right plenty of times it just makes BLATANT errors as to who wins you can even bid 3 sixes and only have 2 die and get called a liar and WIN.

I don't know was there a re-issue of this disc or something? Because I was using a rental disc from blockbuster, they still have the old 5th element disc which I asked them to upgrade if possible (doubtful).

I played it through my PS3 with the latest firmware.

HD DVD isnt good enough? I had no idea.... thanks for this important public service message.

Tard.

:p

1. The OP is quoting a relatively old "announcement".

2. The "Announcement" was from someone who is not only not impartial but is in fact, arguably, the biggest supporter of the Blu format in the world today.

3. The title was posted in a way so as to imply that it was a 3rd party's opinion.

4. The "Announcement" is so full of Spin and mis-information as to be almost laughable.

The "source" is the equivalent of Randy Savage getting up on stage and saying that Hulk Hogan isn't "man enough" to take him on.

Translation of the original statement into Wrestler-ese

"OH YEAH!!!!! Bring it ON!!!!! HD is Going DOWN!!!"

Overall rating for the original post:

Originality: Zero
Impartiality: Zero
Newsworthyness: Zero

Disclaimer: All celebrity comments are from paid impersonators. "Macho man" Randy Savage was not involved in this reply nor do the opinions stated reflect his opinions towards HD media. No wrestlers were harmed in the making of this post.

It doesn't work right plenty of times it just makes BLATANT errors as to who wins you can even bid 3 sixes and only have 2 die and get called a liar and WIN.

I don't know was there a re-issue of this disc or something? Because I was using a rental disc from blockbuster, they still have the old 5th element disc which I asked them to upgrade if possible (doubtful).

I played it through my PS3 with the latest firmware.
Funny.
So, the game allowed you to try and cheat but allowed you to win?
I would like to see this.
I'm not saying it's not true but a simple program like that would of been easily tested for very common scenarios like that by the developer and testers.

I'll have to test out your theory/experience and see if I have the same result.
And no, they haven't re-released the disc.

Pointless post - it's not like you're quoting some objective expert.

What we do know is this: the very highest picture quality can fit with HDDVD limits, with lossless audio. We know this because discs like Hot Fuzz exist. As an owner of both formats, that imo is the best disc ever released.

Now, certainly having a particularly grainy movie in 1.85:1 with lossless might be impossible on HDDVD because of peak bandwidth requirements - that would be a fair criticism. Or a four hour movie again, it would be tricky. But these are extreme cases, and really don't matter very much because of their small number.

However, with normal aspect ratio movies, even a particularly grainy one, peak bandwidth isn't an issue even with a lossless track. Give it 18mbit average video, 27mbit peak, lossless 16/48, DD+ 640k secondary, and a decent encode can be done with perfect quality. What's more, it's only taking 9.5GB per hour, so even a three hour movie can be done with some extras.

I really enjoy the article for a few reasons, but mainly for this one sentence:

"Should you stop half way and say 'let's have a pee and then continue'? No that does not work. The movie is that long. And HD DVD is simply not good enough to carry that, or it would discriminate the quality."

First, did an executive actually use the expression "have a pee" in a public interview?

And second, what the hell does the phrase "discriminate the quality" mean? That doesn't even make sense.

Funny.
So, the game allowed you to try and cheat but allowed you to win?
I would like to see this.
I'm not saying it's not true but a simple program like that would of been easily tested for very common scenarios like that by the developer and testers.

I'll have to test out your theory/experience and see if I have the same result.
And no, they haven't re-released the disc.


I have no reason to make it up, I don't think I'm going to end the format war by pointing out that a small bonus feature on a BD disc is poorly programmed. I was just shocked that such an error could get through.

It did add some suspense though when you were waiting to see if you won or lost a round! Otherwise I would have liked the game, they could have added a bunch more scenes to it, it reminded me of the first go round of full motion video games.

What we do know is this: the very highest picture quality can fit with HDDVD limits, with lossless audio. We know this because discs like Hot Fuzz exist. As an owner of both formats, that imo is the best disc ever released.


Hot Fuzz didn't have a lossless audio track. Evidently Universal forgot to include one or couldn't because of the bitrate required by the video and U-Control stuff.

But...but, Animations like Cars look great on SD DVD. Why buy the Blu-ray version?

I suppose sd dvd isn't good enough as well? :rolleyes:

When Disney actually has some of their "vault" movies on the shelves I'll start to believe thay actually care about Blu. Sleeping Beauty is the only one I see on the list above and it doesn't come out until fall '08.

I was half expecting a credible source to open up a meaningful debate, instead we get more PR dribble from most biased cheerleader the BDA has to offer.

Hot Fuzz didn't have a lossless audio track. Evidently Universal forgot to include one or couldn't because of the bitrate required by the video and U-Control stuff.


Being that Troy Directors cut is one long movie, WITH lossless, I would say that puts the "couldn't" speculation to rest.

Shills - One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.

Shocker, guess I was correct then, that was you, and here you are again, with a similarly late thread - hey, didn't you say it was just "light hearted fun" to save face last time as well, AFTER everyone *welcomed you to the past*? Too funny. =)

As for my username that you chose to alter, Schils - it happens to be my given name by birth, tis German, whilst you post like a TRUE shill by CHOICE, not name - the posts speak for themselves...so just like me being stuck with my name I suppose, you also can't run from what you is, lol! :p :D

Here is what I will never understand about BR fanboys. If BR50 is so important, why are 90% of them 25 gig? If Disney needed 50 gigs to make Pirates of the Carrabian look good, why didn't they use VC-1? This guy is using unitelligent arguments that hold don't hold water. It simple is a fanboy spewing out the same nonsense and propoganda that they always do. Is HD-DVD perfect, by no means but they are much closer to being a a much more consistant product than BR ever thought of. They simple can't take the fact that this small format is kicking back and not backing down, nor going away.
Its quite pathetic.

Being that Troy Directors cut is one long movie, WITH lossless, I would say that puts the "couldn't" speculation to rest.


You'd like to think that wouldn't you. Troy also has NO IME and is a 2.40:1 aspect ratio. That is a lot less video to encode than something that is 1.85:1.

Notice how there hasn't been a single HD DVD with IME and TrueHD that is 1.85:1?? Coincidence? Not likely.

Here is what I will never understand about BR fanboys. If BR50 is so important, why are 90% of them 25 gig? If Disney needed 50 gigs to make Pirates of the Carrabian look good, why didn't they use VC-1? This guy is using unitelligent arguments that hold don't hold water. It simple is a fanboy spewing out the same nonsense and propoganda that they always do. Is HD-DVD perfect, by no means but they are much closer to being a a much more consistant product than BR ever thought of. They simple can't take the fact that this small format is kicking back and not backing down, nor going away.
Its quite pathetic.

They don't see those facts and refuse to even try to answer any questions posed.

"HD-DVD is not good enough"

But do they feel that the decade old inefficiencies of MPEG2 on over 50% of all Bluray titles are good enough? Do they realize that to adequately display high quality MPEG2 video it requires more storage space and more bitrate?

Do they not realize that HD-DVD had over 90% of it's films in either VC-1 or AVC? Do they realize that professional video engineers claim 3G codecs show that exact same PQ can be achieved using 2 to 3 times less bitrate?

Do they not understand that HD-DVD with it's "measly bitrate" is more than capable of displaying equal if not better PQ on a 30GB disc using VC-1 than BD can do with a 50GB disc using MPEG2?

I do realize that BD is also capable of doing VC-1 and AVC.. and they do. This is fine.. but then what do they do with the other 20GB of space? Oh.. they use it to put a second video on the disc to allow their "makeshift PIP" such as on Cars.

They don't see those facts and refuse to even try to answer any questions posed.

"HD-DVD is not good enough"

But do they feel that the decade old inefficiencies of MPEG2 on over 50% of all Bluray titles are good enough? Do they realize that to adequately display high quality MPEG2 video it requires more storage space and more bitrate?

Do they not realize that HD-DVD had over 90% of it's films in either VC-1 or AVC? Do they realize that professional video engineers claim 3G codecs show that exact same PQ can be achieved using 2 to 3 times less bitrate?

Do they not understand that HD-DVD with it's "measly bitrate" is more than capable of displaying equal if not better PQ on a 30GB disc using VC-1 than BD can do with a 50GB disc using MPEG2?

I do realize that BD is also capable of doing VC-1 and AVC.. and they do. This is fine.. but then what do they do with the other 20GB of space? Oh.. they use it to put a second video on the disc to allow their "makeshift PIP" such as on Cars.

Actually they use the extra space to give us lossless audio!

Actually they use the extra space to give us lossless audio!

I believe Troy DC proved HD-DVD can do just as well.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/977/troy_dc.html

Notice how there hasn't been a single HD DVD with IME and TrueHD that is 1.85:1?? Coincidence? Not likely.

Oh my goodness gracious!!! Are you freakin' kidding me?? No really...are you actually kidding me??

Quote "They have done nothing but maintain their sales lead"

As long as it's maintained I think that should be good enough.

-Brian

As a CRTer I sure hope you've watched some HD DVDs on your CRT! My G90 loves HD DVD while BD scares the hell out of it. Why? Elevated black levels with BD - ouch! Those with gamma corrected CRTs will notice the difference immediately. Sorry, as a CRTer, BD right now doesn't cut it. This has got to be addressed. Those with digital projectors may not notice or care, but I sure do!!! When a movie is released in both formats I will always chose HD DVD for this reason.

Cheers,

Grant

I love the part about "subsidization" by Toshiba, yet the #1 BD player (PS3) is the most subsized player of any format out right now..

Good one..


Yeah, They lose like 250 bucks on every PS3 sold. Sony's got some of the worst spin doctors in the business. They lie like it's fact and have so for years about their products. Their desperation is clearly showing.

I also love how they claim that they are not paying off companies to support Blu-Ray, since it was Sony that started the whole concept years ago when they were trying to push the PS1.

Hot Fuzz didn't have a lossless audio track. Evidently Universal forgot to include one or couldn't because of the bitrate required by the video and U-Control stuff.

Maybe not--but the audio did get 4.5 stars...which is higher than many (most?) BD lossless audio reviews have received.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/880/hotfuzz.html

This is a pretty bold statement.





SOURCE (http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/high-definition/news/blu-ray-boss-hd-dvd-is-not-good-enough?articleid=80768583)

.

This is old news. I guess it was resurrected as a way for the blu brigade to continue yet another untruthful talking point.

I believe Troy DC proved HD-DVD can do just as well.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/977/troy_dc.html

Yeah 1 movie way to go pat yourselves on the back..... come back with a real answer when lossless is the norm and not the exception for HD DVD.

Notice how there hasn't been a single HD DVD with IME and TrueHD that is 1.85:1?? Coincidence? Not likely.


Can you list a single BD with IME and lossless that is 1.85:1? Not likely, seeing as how BD is an unfinished product and doesn't have IME!

Can you list a single BD with IME and lossless that is 1.85:1? Not likely, seeing as how BD is an unfinished product and doesn't have IME!

I'm still trying to figure out the direction these self-congratulatory circle jerks are going to take when BD players get secondary decoders.

I'm still trying to figure out the direction these self-congratulatory circle jerks are going to take when BD players get secondary decoders.

:D Nice

Quote "If BR50 is so important, why are 90% of them 25 gig?"

What's the source for that information? I know many of mine are 50GB and I've seen many specs of upcoming BR that are 50GB. I don't know the exact percentage but I have a feeling the 90% is just made up, right?

-Brian

-

I'm still trying to figure out the direction these self-congratulatory circle jerks are going to take when BD players get secondary decoders.

"just you wait....."

Deja Vu, (Grant),

On my G70 Blu Rays don't exhibit black level problems. Also, several members with G90's and gamma correction circuitry posted screen shots in the CRT fourm here from PS3's that have excellent contrast and black level. I recommend you go check it out because sounds like something is not setup correctly in your signal chain.

-Brian

Yeah 1 movie way to go pat yourselves on the back..... come back with a real answer when lossless is the norm and not the exception for HD DVD.

You mean like Rush Hour 3 on BD? Perhaps what everyone doesn't realize is that lossless audio has less to do with the format and more to do with the studios decision.

I'm still trying to figure out the direction these self-congratulatory circle jerks are going to take when BD players get secondary decoders.

Likely they will become extinct. The same thing the current lucky consumers who bought a 1.0 player for 600-1300$ will call their hardware.

Quote "If BR50 is so important, why are 90% of them 25 gig?"

What's the source for that information? I know many of mine are 50GB and I've seen many specs of upcoming BR that are 50GB. I don't know the exact percentage but I have a feeling the 90% is just made up, right?

-Brian

-

90% is not correct.

It's actually about 59%

So near 60% of all current BD releases are using 25GB discs
48% of all current BD releases are also using MPEG2

HD-DVD on the other hand shows nearly 75% of all releases using 30GB. Hmmmm interesting.

Also only 3% of all HD-DVDs use MPEG2.

The stats are easily found at http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

It doesn't work right plenty of times it just makes BLATANT errors as to who wins you can even bid 3 sixes and only have 2 die and get called a liar and WIN.There was another person who thought it was screwing up, but it turned out they just didn't understand the rules. Do you realize that the rules are your claim is about what both sides have together? That is what makes the game somewhat complicated and a reasonable game. You don't know whether you were lying or not until you see the other guy's dice. If you have 2 sixes and the other guy has 1 or more sixes, then if you claim 3 sixes and get called a liar, you should win.

--Darin

90% is not correct.

It's actually about 59%

So near 60% of all current BD releases are using 25GB discs
48% of all current BD releases are also using MPEG2

HD-DVD on the other hand shows nearly 75% of all releases using 30GB. Hmmmm interesting.

Also only 3% of all HD-DVDs use MPEG2.

The stats are easily found at http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.phpInteresting. From looking at that site for releases in 2007 it shows:

BD50: 62.6%
MPEG-2: 33%

For the last couple of months shown (June and July) about 8% of the titles on Blu-ray were MPEG-2 (with a little over 30% BD25s).

--Darin

This thread clearly isn't good enough for AVS. :p

Interesting. From looking at that site for releases in 2007 it shows:

BD50: 62.6%
MPEG-2: 33%

For the last couple of months shown (June and July) about 8% of the titles on Blu-ray were MPEG-2 (with a little over 30% BD25s).

--Darin

I was mentioning all titles. Are we saying "only the newest titles count" now? If so, we can do that too. So 40% of BD discs are on 25GB vs. 85% of HD-DVD discs using 30GB. (Don't forget the HD30 Combos) We would also then see that only 0.6% of HD-DVD use MPEG2 (thank god they finally scrapped the decade old bitrate pig codec for HD releases)

So it's 9PM my time. I'm too lazy to do the math. But...

40% BD25 vs. 85% HD30/HD30 Combo
33% MPEG2 BD vs. 0.6% MPEG2 HD-DVD

It would appear that a large proportion of 2007's releases on BD are inferior to HD-DVDs releases.

Topic title edited.

I was mentioning all titles.Obviously.
Are we saying "only the newest titles count" now?Of course not. But the trend does matter, just like it mattered with DVD (where somebody could have complained early on that most releases were single layer).

--Darin

I like the new title better.

-Brian

Being that Troy Directors cut is one long movie, WITH lossless, I would say that puts the "couldn't" speculation to rest.

How dare you mention that a 3 hour and 16 minute movie with lossless audio and a bunch of special features can fit on a single HD DVD disc. That single handedly smacks down one of the favorite Blu-Lies of the Blu-Crew.

"HD DVD isn't good enough"

Well it is good enough to:

1. Have 39% of the marketplace for disc sales (SI)

2. Bring the price of a player down to $199 MSRP

3. Have it platform 100% finished - 1920x1080 PQ Lossless AQ, IME and IF - consumer gets all the benefits of HDM when they are included.

4. Offer the DVD owner a chance to buy a movie that will play in all of this players no matter what kind nor where they are located

5. Convince Paramount and Dreamworks that their future is better with HD DVD exclusively.

6. Get other CEM's to make HD DVD players

Looking at the list - HD DVD is good enough.

Quote "1. Have 39% of the marketplace for disc sales (SI)"

Compared to Blu Ray's 61% that is. Kind of clear which is "good"er

Quote "Bring the price of a player down to $199 MSRP"

I don't know if having to lower you prices is a sign of how good something is. I thought good things cost more. Not to mention the simple fact the $199 players don't exist yet but are "planned" currently suggested to be available in three weeks.

Quote "Have it platform 100% finished"

I thought things were still up in the air with those TL51 discs. Have they been abandon-ed?

Quote "Get other CEM's to make HD DVD players"

I have yet to find any except some Toshiba players that have had RCA sticker added.

So Cars is a 50GB disc...right?
How much of the space is the 'fake' PiP movie?

You'd like to think that wouldn't you. Troy also has NO IME and is a 2.40:1 aspect ratio. That is a lot less video to encode than something that is 1.85:1.

Notice how there hasn't been a single HD DVD with IME and TrueHD that is 1.85:1?? Coincidence? Not likely. I agree that Troy is not the perfect test case because of the aspect ratio.

I also would like to see a 1:85 OAR ratio film encoded with VC-1 and Dolby True-HD and IME before I could brag about 30GB discs being more than adequate for a long movie.

I don't care about needing a second disc for the extras but I want to see a long VC-1 HD DVD 1:85 movie with lossless audio and IME as a conclusive example.

I agree that Troy is not the perfect test case because of the aspect ratio.

I also would like to see a 1:85 OAR ratio film encoded with VC-1 and Dolby True-HD and IME before I could brag about 30GB discs being more than adequate for a long movie.

I don't care about needing a second disc for the extras but I want to see a long VC-1 HD DVD 1:85 movie with lossless audio and IME as a conclusive example.I've been thinking this for a while. The bandwidth is what I think the problem will be in that scenario, moreso than the capacity of the disc.

If they keep telling themselves that HD DVD is not good enough for movies, maybe it'll really come true! :D

Cheez whiz! - these folks need to get some professional PR help - they keep seeming to make rather silly public statements...

Yo gotta admit, thats pretty lame as a PR interview.

BTW, Cars is not the best test case to brag about what a 50GB disc can give you as that animation upconverts really well on an HD DVD player.

I've seen the Blu-ray version and my HD XA2 takes the standard DVD and upconverts it and most other computer animation and CGI stuff really really well.

Now if he was talking about hand cell drawn Fantasia or Cinderella, he might have a point, but Cars........

Why are there 4 pages on this? The Blu-ray boss says HD DVD sucks. Ooookay, so what do you expect him to say? Maybe next there will be a thread for the HD DVD Promotional Group to say Blu-ray sucks - what a revelation that would be!:rolleyes:

Why are there 4 pages on this? The Blu-ray boss says HD DVD sucks. Ooookay, so what do you expect him to say? Maybe next there will be a thread for the HD DVD Promotional Group to say Blu-ray sucks - what a revelation that would be!:rolleyes:

The real question is, why are there two threads about this?

hmm, if HD DVD is not good enough then BD is one over priced, unfinished standard dvd style interactivity, not good enough ;)

Why are there 4 pages on this? The Blu-ray boss says HD DVD sucks. Ooookay, so what do you expect him to say? Maybe next there will be a thread for the HD DVD Promotional Group to say Blu-ray sucks - what a revelation that would be!:rolleyes:
If you've paid attention to the PR statements over the last year, you'll see that the negativity pretty much resides on the side of BD. HD DVD responses are mostly to counter the mistruths uttered by the BDA.

Funny this guy asks for more "clarity" from HD DVD when they are ducking the profile issues and hiding it from the consumer. Talk about a hypocrite. ROFLMAO

Can you list a single BD with IME and lossless that is 1.85:1? Not likely, seeing as how BD is an unfinished product and doesn't have IME!

+100

I'll be damned if I spend that kind of money on an UNFINISHED product. Sadly, it not only looks like others have, but they actually defend their incomplete, higher priced purchase as "superior". Only in America.

Yo gotta admit, thats pretty lame as a PR interview.

BTW, Cars is not the best test case to brag about what a 50GB disc can give you as that animation upconverts really well on an HD DVD player.

I've seen the Blu-ray version and my HD XA2 takes the standard DVD and upconverts it and most other computer animation and CGI stuff really really well.

Now if he was talking about hand cell drawn Fantasia or Cinderella, he might have a point, but Cars........

I would have to disagree here. CGI animation looks profoundly better in HD than it does in upconverted DVD. I have argueably the best upscaling DVD player on the market (DVD-5910) and CG animation pales in comparison to true HD on my 120" screen. I find it funny when people say there isn't a big difference with animation, my experience has been completely the opposite.

I would have to disagree here. CGI animation looks profoundly better in HD than it does in upconverted DVD.

He he he, not according to quite a few people around here - just read the threads! :rolleyes:

To be honest, though, with a 120" screen, you're much more likely to see a more significant improvement over someone with a 42" TV.

It doesn't work right plenty of times it just makes BLATANT errors as to who wins you can even bid 3 sixes and only have 2 die and get called a liar and WIN.

no disrespect, but are you sure you understand the rules? the scenario you describe is not a blatant error - you're bidding on the number of dice under BOTH cups. if you have 2 dice, it is certainly possible to have 3 sixes, given some under your cup and some under pintel's.

i'm not saying there aren't any errors - just wanted to clear up that the scenario you describe isn't necessarily an error.

(sorry for going off-topic)

I wish Sony and BDA could start subsidising players so people can actually afford them though. If it is true Toshiba does that, so what? Seems like a good strategy, and it helps the consumer get into HDM.

Of course, Sony's double edged sword is that if they start subsidising they'll pi$$ off their partners.

BTW, Cars is not the best test case to brag about what a 50GB disc can give you as that animation upconverts really well on an HD DVD player.

I've seen the Blu-ray version and my HD XA2 takes the standard DVD and upconverts it and most other computer animation and CGI stuff really really well.

Now if he was talking about hand cell drawn Fantasia or Cinderella, he might have a point, but Cars........I expect the opposite. Those with the Pirates discs can pause during the montage at the beginning and see how incredible a shot of Cars in HD looks. I don't recall any DVD looking like that. I have the XA2 and I can try a test if people want, but I don't expect this to be all that close. Granted, I am using a 1080p projector. Might be somewhat different with less than half the resolution with a 720p projector, but even so I bet the high definition version would look quite a bit better than the upscaled DVD with my 720p projector or 720p projectors that others have.

I do agree with Cars not being a good example, but mostly because it shouldn't be nearly as hard to compress as a lot of things out there (non-animations mostly).

On the subject of Cars, it wasn't until I saw the beginning used as a demo at CEDIA that I realized what a great demo that opening makes. One of the best around IMO, with Lightning revving his engine in his truck and then going out on the track. Should be great audio and video. I can hardly wait. There is stuff from both camps I wouldn't want to miss and this is definitely one of them, even though I might never get around to watching the whole movie again.

--Darin

I wish Sony and BDA could start subsidising players so people can actually afford them though. If it is true Toshiba does that, so what? Seems like a good strategy, and it helps the consumer get into HDM.

"If," being the being the operative word.

Just face it, HD-DVD is going down :)

Viva la Blu !

what's going to be this guys comments on people not being able to play FF4 rise of the silver surfer or Day After Tomorrow??? people having problems with BD+ already. I knew this was going to happen and it's just going to get worst.