I've been putting some thought to this tonight, trying to figure out all the angles. With VMD entering the market, how will/might it affect the current "format war".

It's a total wild-card, of course, and, like a double-edged sword, could swing either way and take out one of the other formats. Remember that scene in Planet Earth where the two rams are having a head-butting contest, and all of a sudden, a third guy jumps in and knocks one of them back?

I haven't been able to form an opinion yet, so I felt it would be a good idea to exchange thoughts on the matter.

Please note: This thread is NOT for fighting. Leave guns, knives, wazoos, boogers and Sharpie Pens at the door. Mods have permission to use deadly force to protect this discussion! :p

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First off, best I can tell about HVD is what I have picked up from their website:

1) About 5 Gigs per layer, first movies will ship this month at 20 Gigs, or 4 layers.
2) They can use VC1, but not AVC, all players do decode VC1, so I'm assuming first films can likely ship with VC1.
3) The movies are encoded to disc at 24p
4) Two versions of the player 1080i and 1080p, at $175 and $199 respectively
5) Movies estimated to cost $20
6) HVD does not appear to be able to do TrueHD or DTS MA lossless audio. They do just DD, DTS, AC3 and PCM uncompressed
7) They claim that they can do a software update to almost any PC drive on the market and make it a VMD drive, enabling millions of PCs to be VMD players overnight

Very interesting arguments...

---------------------------------

OK, that said, here are some potential scenarios to get the discussion started:

1) With three HD formats in the market, the most expensive gets squeezed out. With an overnight player count in the 100's of thousands, thanks to millions of curious people downloading this "update", VMD starts flying of the shelves. Studios decide that three formats is too much, and ditch the most troublesome and expensive of the three, Bluray.

2) With it's low price and similar name, HD VMD canibalises HD DVD sales due to consumer confusion, crippling the HD DVD hardware sales push. Under this scenario, both VMD and HD DVD sideline themselves and Bluray takes the win.

3) With far more movies than anyone anticipated, and a simple software upgrade to any DVD playing PC, VMD storms to the front of the Nielsen sales charts and wins the format war in 3 months flat, taking charge at CES 2008, as studios flock to it in droves.

I've given three very simplistic thoughts going either way, in order to start the conversation and to show I'm not stating this to hurt only one side or the other.

Much will depend on how many movies they can get into the market, frankly. And basically I'm not convinced they've got that yet. Their website claims 4,000 titles, but yet the few that are listed on their website include many REALLY unheard of stuff that no one would want. So if they really had 4,000 I doubt they would list these at all - but we'll see.

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Right, what are your thoughts, folks?

"HOW DO YOU think the VMD format will affect the ongoing format war"?

Added a third scenario to the "conversation starter" OP.

I want my HD audio so no thanks!

I want my HD audio so no thanks!I agree, but let's suppose that J6P types out there don't know what that means, for the sake of discussion :)

Unless they managed to get a studio that matters behind them they are a complete non-starter. There is nothing more to it.

If they had support of real studios, they'd be telling everyone -- the fact that they mention 4,000 titles but no studio names and no major title names means they have 4,000 mediocre movies that nobody cares about (these are the $1-3 bin movies... not even $5 bin movies!)

It won't. Studios won't support this third format. I expect it to die a quick death.

I just don't understand where they get their support from. Look at some of the movies coming out on HD VMD:

Hostage
We Were Soldiers
Apocalypto
Lucky Number Slevin
Valiant
Saw II
Saw III
Lord of War
Passion of The Christ
Babel
16 Blocks
Set up
Hoodwinked
Oliver Twist
Pulp Fiction
Sahara
The Descent
Miss Potter
The Queen
Butterfly Effect 1
Butterfly Effect 2
Hitcher
Black Sheep
Lord of the Rings
Remote Control
Spy kids
Scarie movie 2

That's Paramount, Disney, Miramax, Lions Gate, New Line, Universal and Fox to name a few. Three questions bug me:

Are they lying about the movies set to be released?

How did they even get these movies from companies locked up in other formats?

Are the movie companies that said they are backing our formats playing us for fools and actually testing the waters with a truly cheap way to get into hdm's?

If the first one is true the other two don't matter, just sucks actually seeing a format claim Lord of the Rings while we still get rumors and guesses about when they will come to BR and HD DVD.

I see it's already posted at amazon(though it goes to the NME site), for $199 and $189 depending on the model. It will be intersting to see what this thing can do if they deliver the content promised.

I want my HD audio so no thanks!

Same, which is why I love blu-ray.:D HD VMD can stay away from my home.

Never heard of them. If it takes hold even a little bit it could mean no end in sight to the format wars and things will become even more confusing for consumers.

Just from looking at their partners, it seems like this isn't even really targeted for the U.S.A. I've never heard of the distributors they are partnered with. In fact about the only names I have heard of is Asus and Sigma.

Very few people are taking it seriously.

Indications is the HD-VMD will be in asia what VCD is/was.

The sheer number of layers required has difficulties in itself and yields may be no better than BD or HD-DVD.

The security of the format is itself quite questionable.

Just ignore it and it will go away :p

It will be interesting to watch but unless they pick up major support from the film industry and manage to achieve market penetration at the retail level they will likely just be a footnote in the western market.

10 layers to reach capacities of 50gb?

BD does it in 2 layers, HD can do it in 3 layers.

10 layers creates a lot more headaches and problems, it also leaves the format FAR FAR less headroom to improve.

As I said the security of the format is VERY VERY questionable, I have doubts than any studio will take it seriously. Did they take VCD/SVCD seriously?

It will take off in Asia and India, etc.

Quote "Indications is the HD-VMD will be in asia what VCD is/was."

This is exactly what it looks like to me. When I can't find a movie on any format,.. I can usually find a VCD for sale that "looks" official. Could these formats be less then legit.

Seems to me some imagination is being streched in terms of copyright and such.

-Brian

If there's a big adoption in Asia or Europe, I'll probably pick one up as I am a big, big fan of international cinema.

I just noticed that there's a downloadable PDF (in zip format - go figure) on the home page of NME's website (http://www.nmeinc.com) with a write-up by Kevin Miller, president of ISFTV (http://www.isftv.com). ISFTV appears to be a NY-based company that offers ISF calibration service. One quote sounded interesting and wasn't something I had heard before (sorry if this is old news):
NME’s ML622 and ML777 1080p HD VMD players are the first high definition DVD players to output true 1080p. Utilizing the Sigma Designs EM8622L chip set
the ML622 and ML777 will output the native 1080p resolution from the disc rather than adding a second conversion process by breaking it down to 1080i and deinterlacing back to 1080p, as all current HD DVD and Blu-ray players do.

This outfit just doesn't seem to have US distribution rights to anything that will generate sales here.

The $20 estimated movie cost is interesting as well, as its 30-50% less than HD DVD/BD movies. Considering the extra cost to author an HD title and menus, features, etc.. this makes me think they may have an arrangement similar to what Divx had where the studio just delivers a master and calls it a day. That could mean very basic automated VC1 encodes and few extras on the discs. Just a theory there...

But whatever, with 0 movies this may be totally DOA in the states. I mean, BD fans thought HD DVD studio support was bad with 3 major studios supporting it... what happens to a format with 0?

I've been putting some thought to this tonight, trying to figure out all the angles. With VMD entering the market, how will/might it affect the current "format war".
I think it will be a total non starter at least here in the US. It might have a chance in Asia kinda like VCD.

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First off, best I can tell about HVD is what I have picked up from their website:

1) About 5 Gigs per layer, first movies will ship this month at 20 Gigs, or 4 layers.
2) They can use VC1, but not AVC, all players do decode VC1, so I'm assuming first films can likely ship with VC1.
3) The movies are encoded to disc at 24p
4) Two versions of the player 1080i and 1080p, at $175 and $199 respectively
5) Movies estimated to cost $20
6) HVD does not appear to be able to do TrueHD or DTS MA lossless audio. They do just DD, DTS, AC3 and PCM uncompressed
7) They claim that they can do a software update to almost any PC drive on the market and make it a VMD drive, enabling millions of PCs to be VMD players overnight

Very interesting arguments...

---------------------------------

OK, that said, here are some potential scenarios to get the discussion started:

1) With three HD formats in the market, the most expensive gets squeezed out. With an overnight player count in the 100's of thousands, thanks to millions of curious people downloading this "update", VMD starts flying of the shelves. Studios decide that three formats is too much, and ditch the most troublesome and expensive of the three, Bluray.

If anything this will be HD-DVD. The venture player is expected to have an msrp very close to that of these players and has the advantage of an already established format with clear studio support. If cheap players are going to sell for anyone it will be HD-DVD.

2) With it's low price and similar name, HD VMD canibalises HD DVD sales due to consumer confusion, crippling the HD DVD hardware sales push. Under this scenario, both VMD and HD DVD sideline themselves and Bluray takes the win.

3) With far more movies than anyone anticipated, and a simple software upgrade to any DVD playing PC, VMD storms to the front of the Nielsen sales charts and wins the format war in 3 months flat, taking charge at CES 2008, as studios flock to it in droves.

I think the upgrading PC based DVD drives is a total red herring for several reasons.

1- It requires far too many companies to work together. With DVD players produced by everyone from major names like Toshiba to nobodies in china that may not exist anymore how are they going to get that many people interested in an upgrade.

2- Far too many different DVD drives out there. A single mfg of dvd drives will have dozens of different drive models with different firmwares. Who knows how much effort it will take to implement this upgrade in all these drives.

3- Still need player software and VC-1 playback isn't exactly easy for a computer right now. It requires a dual core processor or video card assistance neither of which is exactly common right now.

4- People do not use PC based DVD drivers for most of their movie viewing. Most people do not have a HTPC in their living room with their TV and probably have a 19 or 20 inch lcd with stereo speakers hooked up to their computer at best.

Combine all these together and if these upgrades do actually ever appear we are realistically looking at a fairly small number of people that would actually be able to upgrade a drive and then reasonably use it for viewing HD movies.


Over all I'd say I'll believe that they actually have those movies available and that price when I can actually buy them at that price. The movies may not happen or the price may end up being higher than expected.

I want my HD audio so no thanks!

Do you think CDs are HD?

Studio Support will obviously be the key here. If they could get similar titles to HDDVD or Blu-Ray (or both) - they can certainly do very well.

Seems to me the most obvious competitor would be HDDVD, since they are both focusing on:
a) cheaper players
b) Portable/Pc market (Toshiba Laptops vs firmware update to dvd-rom's?)

If the two have similar support (which I don't really think will happen..), the one with the lower price may very well win.

Most likely, VMD will die quickly, unless it becomes a feature in most dvd players that cost $50 (similar to divx playback etc). In that case, even a limited catalog may actually be sufficient for them to get some success.

Is Lord of the Rings really on this list?? If so I am going to be sick.

I think they want to be bought/absorbed because I can't see what hope they have, maybe a format for Asia and India to pirate with.

Is Lord of the Rings really on this list?? If so I am going to be sick.

Remember, there was an animated version of the LotR (1978) long before the Peter Jackson trilogy.

I believe it is that movie they are going to have available on VMD.

Same, which is why I love blu-ray.:D HD VMD can stay away from my home.

it does support uncompressed PCM. Isn't that the most HD of audio?

I could see them entering a "back door" by hawking the players as great upscalers that play HD media. The market is so small now, that anything is possible.

Quote "I could see them entering a "back door" by hawking the players as great upscalers that play HD media. "

That's sort of how I see it too. Seems like HD DVD and VMD are trying to compete as enhanced upconverting players since they strive for the same price point as popular upconverters like the Oppo models.

-Brian

Remember, there was an animated version of the LotR (1978) long before the Peter Jackson trilogy.

I believe it is that movie they are going to have available on VMD.

I hope that's what it is, but what the heck is Disney doing releasing Apocalypto on it? Universal and Fox don't make sense either, the list has to be false. They even misspelled Scary Movie 2(Scarie).:p

I really don't know how often one has to point here that this list is BS for the US. all of those movies may be owned by VMD in some East European countries. that is because US studios often give away home video rights overseas, especially in small markets.

To me it seems obvious why HD VMD will win this thing hands down.

1) Low player prices (the cheapest!)

2) Uses the incredible VC-1 codec (exclusively!)

3) Makes use of existing replication technology

4) And for audio has Dolby Digital, which we all know is "good enough"

Isn't that how the argument usually goes? :rolleyes:

To me it seems obvious why HD VMD will win this thing hands down.

1) Low player prices (the cheapest!)

2) Uses the incredible VC-1 codec (exclusively!)

3) Makes use of existing replication technology

4) And for audio has Dolby Digital, which we all know is "good enough"

Isn't that how the argument usually goes? :rolleyes:

I am buying one and I'm serious. I think you guys are in for a big shock! I hope this format kills the other two and we have a few orphans here.

Cheers,

Grant

I am buying one and I'm serious. I think you guys are in for a big shock! I hope this format kills the other two and we have a few orphans here.

Cheers,

Grant

Hey then that sarcasm wasn't directed at you, but at those that would ridicule your format choice while ignoring the very criteria used to declare the inevitability of their own choice.

I say to you: by all means buy HD VMD. Seems like a great format to me.

Quote "I could see them entering a "back door" by hawking the players as great upscalers that play HD media. "

That's sort of how I see it too. Seems like HD DVD and VMD are trying to compete as enhanced upconverting players since they strive for the same price point as popular upconverters like the Oppo models.

-BrianBrian, I agree that HD-DVD and HD-VMD are targeting the same niche in the market (i.e., the low cost way to HD). Do the HD-VMD players actually include the capability to upscale regular DVDs?

I'd be pretty surprised if this format takes off for a couple of reasons:
1) The lowest priced player is only a few dollars lower than the lowest priced (brand name) HD DVD player.
2) Movie selection is limited.
3) Distribution of players (and presumably movies) in the US is very, very poor (Amazon online and supposedly Radio Shack at some point).

As for quality, I'm of a different mindset than a lot of the enthusiasts here. Unlike many of you, I'm at the "high end" in that I've got a front-projector. But my projector is only 1280x720, so anything above 720p seems useless to me. I'm also a geek (programmer by day and gadget nut 24/7) and I like the idea of convenience. I've recently been ripping my DVD collection to a hard drive. I like the idea of scrolling through a list of my movies on my TV (whether it be AppleTV, Windows Vista Media Center, or whatever), and starting them up via remote control. This has gotten me thinking more and more recently about ripping HD DVD's and Blu-ray discs and downconverting them to a streamable-friendly 720p format. For the purists it's anathema, but we all compromise in life, and just as I prefer the flexibility of lossy 192k MP3's to the improved sound quality of a compact disc, I'm willing to give up a bit of quality for added convenience and better-than-DVD PQ (resolution in particular).

I'd be pretty surprised if this format takes off for a couple of reasons:
1) The lowest priced player is only a few dollars lower than the lowest priced (brand name) HD DVD player.
2) Movie selection is limited.
3) Distribution of players (and presumably movies) in the US is very, very poor (Amazon online and supposedly Radio Shack at some point).

As for quality, I'm of a different mindset than a lot of the enthusiasts here. Unlike many of you, I'm at the "high end" in that I've got a front-projector. But my projector is only 1280x720, so anything above 720p seems useless to me. I'm also a geek (programmer by day and gadget nut 24/7) and I like the idea of convenience. I've recently been ripping my DVD collection to a hard drive. I like the idea of scrolling through a list of my movies on my TV (whether it be AppleTV, Windows Vista Media Center, or whatever), and starting them up via remote control. This has gotten me thinking more and more recently about ripping HD DVD's and Blu-ray discs and downconverting them to a streamable-friendly 720p format. For the purists it's anathema, but we all compromise in life, and just as I prefer the flexibility of lossy 192k MP3's to the improved sound quality of a compact disc, I'm willing to give up a bit of quality for added convenience and better-than-DVD PQ (resolution in particular).


1) $50-75 isn't a few dollars. ;) The lowest cost MSRP for a player I've seen is the $249.99 cheapo. The rest are discounts and mail-in's.
2) Movie selection being limited has not stopped HD DVD. Why should it stop this newcomer that is promising content from BD-exclusive and HD DVD-exclusive studios?
3) Early distribution of HD DVD players was pretty limited back in April 2006. Blu-ray player penetration was pretty limited until November 2006. Toshiba HD DVD players became limited again from November 2006 through January 2007. I don't think that player penetration will be a problem if the price is right (and I've seen many arguments that said below $200 is where HD DVD will "win the war.") If someone else offers HD at that pricepoint, then I wonder if these same people will be arguing the same for that new player?

Personally, I think VMD is squeezing the same customer base as HD DVD wants to squeeze and doing it better, offering much the same for less cost. HD DVD's put a lot of its eggs in the "We're almost as good, we're cheaper" basket and I think VMD's going to really challenge that, if they have the content they say they do.

I think Blu-ray's been pushing the, "We're more expensive, but we give you a superior disc format spec" basket and, ignoring advanced features that may or may not be important, they have delivered. BD50 is stronger than HD DVD, which is why the latter is so eager to try and get TL51's up to parity and finalize their spec (again).

So I think BD has pursued this from the perspective of trying to make the best spec possible and had to compensate for launching early to keep HD DVD from getting too much of a headstart (and suffering through delays of java spec accordingly) while HD DVD was perfectly content to sacrifice some technical aspects (higher bitrates, better disc coatings, proven compatibility with combo flippers, larger disc sizes, SD PiP) to get out the door first and cheaper; and then make up the difference later, if it became important.

I think VMD is going to outdo HD DVD at its own strategy. What's the point of HD DVD if another studio's offering about the same (1080p24 video, VC1, DD lossy) for even less cost? Now if you want nearly universal lossless audio and AVC/VC1 guaranteed, BD's there, too. HD DVD is the middleground and excels in neither price nor audio/video spec.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the BDA secretly created VMD to really expose HD DVD's weaknesses to the market and split the market until Blu-ray gets down in price.

Now that would be pretty clever. I think in the long run, Blu-ray will still win out because it's inevitable within the next year that their players will drop down near the so-called mass media pricepoint of $200, but I think in the short term, a lower-cost competitor may keep people from bothering with HD DVD.

But again only IF there is some content on VMD. It doesn't even have to be as MUCH content as HD DVD as BD has had the promise of more content and that didn't slow many supporters of the Red Pill, eh? VMD just has to have some content.

IF VMD gets some actual movies it most likely just hasten the demise of HDM.

Sisko197, your post is ridiculous on so many levels, I'm not sure where to start (or if I should even bother), but I'm bored so here goes...

1) $50-75 isn't a few dollars. ;) The lowest cost MSRP for a player I've seen is the $249.99 cheapo. The rest are discounts and mail-in's.$250 for a Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player is pretty much standard and the $220 range has been easy to find (for some time now) online. Circuit City is currently offering a $100 gift card which essentialy brings the price down to $200 and I'll be surprised if we don't see a $200 (no rebates, gift cards, etc.) price advertised by a major brick & mortar retailer around Thanksgiving. Again, this VMD player is only about $20 cheaper than the cheapest HD-A2 price one can find today.

2) Movie selection being limited has not stopped HD DVD. Why should it stop this newcomer that is promising content from BD-exclusive and HD DVD-exclusive studios?Movie selection has been limited for HD DVD? They've only been a little behind Blu-ray all along and they're currently ahead. VMD, OTOH, has nothing right now. I see a VMD player available (available right now or pre-order, I'm not sure) on Amazon, but I see no movies available for purchase. I haven't heard anything about Target selling movies or Netflix or Blockbuster Online renting them. That may change before the holidays, but right now, as far as movie selection is concerned, there's absolutely *no* comparison between VMD today and HD DVD a year ago, let alone HD DVD today.
3) Early distribution of HD DVD players was pretty limited back in April 2006. Blu-ray player penetration was pretty limited until November 2006. Toshiba HD DVD players became limited again from November 2006 through January 2007. I don't think that player penetration will be a problem if the price is right (and I've seen many arguments that said below $200 is where HD DVD will "win the war.") If someone else offers HD at that pricepoint, then I wonder if these same people will be arguing the same for that new player?Two things: 1) You're again discussing what Blu-ray and HD DVD looked like a year ago. That was then, this is now. Now, you can find Blu-ray and HD DVD players at a variety of stores, online and brick & mortar. VMD has Amazon (via their own company selling thru Amazon, I might add) and supposedly Radio Shack (though not yet, because I was in a Radio Shack today and saw no VMD players nor any mention of VMD players "coming soon"). 2) No intelligent person has claimed that HD DVD would be successful *solely* because of reaching the $200 price-point first. It was all about the total package, which includes a decent movie catalog, availability, and consumer awareness. VMD may beat (slightly) HD DVD's player price advantage the day it's released, but it looks unlikely that they'll be anywhere close to matching HD DVD's movie catalog and they clearly won't match the availability or consumer awareness (the two of which are closely linked).

Personally, I think VMD is squeezing the same customer base as HD DVD wants to squeeze and doing it better, offering much the same for less cost. HD DVD's put a lot of its eggs in the "We're almost as good, we're cheaper" basket and I think VMD's going to really challenge that, if they have the content they say they do.Personally, I think you're smoking something. The "We're almost as good, we're cheaper" argument is one that's been invented by Blu-ray fanatics. Most sober individuals consider HD DVD to be *as good* as Blu-ray as far as PQ and *better* than Blu-ray in terms of interactive features (which I personally don't care about).

I think Blu-ray's been pushing the, "We're more expensive, but we give you a superior disc format spec" basket and, ignoring advanced features that may or may not be important, they have delivered. BD50 is stronger than HD DVD, which is why the latter is so eager to try and get TL51's up to parity and finalize their spec (again).

So I think BD has pursued this from the perspective of trying to make the best spec possible and had to compensate for launching early to keep HD DVD from getting too much of a headstart (and suffering through delays of java spec accordingly) while HD DVD was perfectly content to sacrifice some technical aspects (higher bitrates, better disc coatings, proven compatibility with combo flippers, larger disc sizes, SD PiP) to get out the door first and cheaper; and then make up the difference later, if it became important.I think you've fairly accurately stated the Blu-ray talking points here. But I personally don't think that the average potential consumer of a high-def player has bought into it.

I think VMD is going to outdo HD DVD at its own strategy. What's the point of HD DVD if another studio's offering about the same (1080p24 video, VC1, DD lossy) for even less cost? Now if you want nearly universal lossless audio and AVC/VC1 guaranteed, BD's there, too. HD DVD is the middleground and excels in neither price nor audio/video spec.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the BDA secretly created VMD to really expose HD DVD's weaknesses to the market and split the market until Blu-ray gets down in price.

Now that would be pretty clever. I think in the long run, Blu-ray will still win out because it's inevitable within the next year that their players will drop down near the so-called mass media pricepoint of $200, but I think in the short term, a lower-cost competitor may keep people from bothering with HD DVD.Really? If VMD can deliver the goods (a good supply of well-known movies at equal PQ and better prices as compared to Blu-ray and HD DVD) they may eat HD DVD's lunch, but they'll also be eating Blu-ray's.

But again only IF there is some content on VMD. It doesn't even have to be as MUCH content as HD DVD as BD has had the promise of more content and that didn't slow many supporters of the Red Pill, eh? VMD just has to have some content.I don't see it happening, but I agree that they don't need to match HD DVD or Blu-ray's catalog size on day one so long as they can have "enough" titles available before Xmas to cause consumers to view it as having momentum. Again, that will hurt Blu-ray as much (if not more) than HD DVD. If you've got two $200 options this Xmas, one with 300 movies and another with 50 movies, as well as a third option at $400 with 300 movies available, which do you think will be in the worst position? I'm not certain of that answer, but I have a pretty good idea of which will be in the *best* position: the one with a large selection of movies *and* low price (i.e., HD DVD).

If I didn't know better, I'd say the BDA secretly created VMD to really expose HD DVD's weaknesses to the market and split the market until Blu-ray gets down in price.
Shhhhh. Be quite.:)

Isn't this product at least a couple years too late? Who in their right mind is going to invest in 4-layer disk production?

Isn't this product at least a couple years too late? Who in their right mind is going to invest in 4-layer disk production?
The average Joe who doesn't pay attention to how many layers a disc has, but just only to price point. Also, the average Joe doesn't research which studios back formats.

Now I also think the average Joe hasn't heard of HD VMD let alone HDM in general, though, so the question may be moot. But if the average Joe finds out about 3 formats, he isn't going to ask (or care) how many layers the disc has in each format.

Does anyone know whether these HD VMD players can upconvert DVDs??

Does anyone know whether these HD VMD players can upconvert DVDs??

Yes, they can. And that is why a lot of folks will buy them, me included, if and when they become widely available.

At this point I have no HD player of any format. I only have regular DVD players. I have been thinking of getting an upconverting DVD player. With the HD VDM player I can get my upconversion, and the fact that it plays High Definition discs is a bonus. I figure I haven't really lost anything if it doesn't go anywhere as a HD format because I will always have it to upconvert my regular DVDs.

Plus, it is a sleek looking player. I think eye appeal plus its low price will sell a lot of players.

http://www.hdvmdnews.com/

It says that it was to launch Q3 in the USA . . so where is this format?

I thought this could only be purchased online and that no major studios were releasing movies on it. How could this affect anything if nobody buys it?

I think people (like me) who are interested in the HD VMD can increase the chances of it taking off by asking about it every time they go to a Best Buy or Circuit City or Walmart or whatever. Find the department manager and ask. Well run companies seek feedback from their managers.

http://www.hdvmdnews.com/

It says that it was to launch Q3 in the USA . . so where is this format?
"This product will be in stock on Sunday 02 December, 2007," according to http://www.nmestore.com/

I'm not sure how this format has a chance in hell to gain traction with HD DVD players already available at $200.

It won't. Studios won't support this third format. I expect it to die a quick death.

I certainly hope so. With both BD and HD-DVD already fairly entrenched in this far, I'd imagine any third party wouldn't stand much of a chance. :cool:

http://nmestore.com/product_info.php?products_id=2

On NME's store (linked above), they say that firmware upgrades are unnecessary. This made me wonder about the (DRM) protection used on the discs. It's not CSS, AACS, or even BD+. Instead it's an animal of their own creation it seems....:rolleyes:

http://www.nmeinc.com/technology_optikey.aspx

At present, I'd say that makes HD-VMDs the only commercial HD media format that can't be copied by consumers. I'm just hoping content producers won't stand for yet another protection scheme, media type, player spec, etc. However, I'm sure the studios would love to be able to sell everyone a BD, HD-DVD and HD-VMD if they could manage it. Triple dipping FTW, NOT! :p

Unless they managed to get a studio that matters behind them they are a complete non-starter. There is nothing more to it.

This. Without studio support, there is no viable third format.

http://www.hdvmdnews.com/

It says that it was to launch Q3 in the USA . . so where is this format?


They have pushed back their startup date.

Around mid December as of now.

As I mentioned in another thread, as soon as I get a finalized player, I will post about it here. I can't post my impressions on the "beta" player I have.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920574&highlight=hd+vmd
Post 25

Yes, they can. And that is why a lot of folks will buy them, me included, if and when they become widely available.


I think you'd be better off trying to pick up an HD DVD player through one of the sales that will be going on through the end of the year. It would be a much better long term bet than VMD. You get the up conversion plus the 5+ free movies that come with them.

IMO, VMD doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of picking up major studio support. Studios don't want a format war (I think they're eager to put an end to the one that is going on now). No way will they muddy the waters further with this.

This. Without studio support, there is no viable third format.

+1

Yawn. Are we still talking about this? HD DVD was selling players for $98 with 5 free HD DVDs last week and people want to buy a player that relies on quad layer disks and is more expensive and does not have any movies?

BE GONE!

They have pushed back their startup date.

Around mid December as of now.

As I mentioned in another thread, as soon as I get a finalized player, I will post about it here. I can't post my impressions on the "beta" player I have.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920574&highlight=hd+vmd
Post 25

Any idea on what is causing the delay? I hope they don't release with firmware issues.

I think you'd be better off trying to pick up an HD DVD player through one of the sales that will be going on through the end of the year. It would be a much better long term bet than VMD. You get the up conversion plus the 5+ free movies that come with them.


You may be right. I didn't realize HD DVD did upconversion. And the free movies make up for the price difference.

WOW . . .

This could get hairy!

I might - if i was a REAL movie lover - of all movies - have to have:

1. An HD DVD player
2. A BD player
3. An HD VMD player
4. A CH DVD player

EEK!

+1

Yawn. Are we still talking about this? HD DVD was selling players for $98 with 5 free HD DVDs last week and people want to buy a player that relies on quad layer disks and is more expensive and does not have any movies?

BE GONE!

I would buy an HD DVD if I could get that $98 with 5 free titles deal without waiting in line outside for the whole night. I just checked BB, and the cheapest one they have listed is the Toshiba HD-A3, for $299, and it's backordered.

WOW . . .

This could get hairy!

I might - if i was a REAL movie lover - of all movies - have to have:

1. An HD DVD player
2. A BD player
3. An HD VMD player
4. A CH DVD player

EEK!


Lee,

Make sure you throw a D-VHS player in the rack!:D

Any idea on what is causing the delay? I hope they don't release with firmware issues.


They are probably working out the kinks, to make sure things go smoothly on launch.

And like anything else, maybe they'll push the launch back again......I have no facts other than my own ideas, on the delay.

They are probably working out the kinks, to make sure things go smoothly on launch.

And like anything else, maybe they'll push the launch back again......I have no facts other than my own ideas, on the delay.

If they miss Xmas . . . DOA in the USA.

And a MUSE HD laserdisc player. Their have been a few HD formats already and I'm sure their will be many more.
I might get this. Going the their home page show a lot of movies comming. I'm going to wait and see what every one says before I invest. But it might be fun to have another format.
I hope first blood comes to this format as its on the most formats

And a MUSE HD laserdisc player. Their have been a few HD formats already and I'm sure their will be many more.
I might get this. Going the their home page show a lot of movies comming. I'm going to wait and see what every one says before I invest. But it might be fun to have another format.
I hope first blood comes to this format as its on the most formats

Funny you should mention that title - I just ordered at my public library - First Blood - the book by David Morrell - his first book BTW.

And BTW you can get this movie on HD DVD via Xpolited (also the other 2 installments)

If they miss Xmas . . . DOA in the USA.

They are already missing Black Friday, and that sets them way back.

And a MUSE HD laserdisc player. Their have been a few HD formats already and I'm sure their will be many more.
I might get this. Going the their home page show a lot of movies comming. I'm going to wait and see what every one says before I invest. But it might be fun to have another format.
I hope first blood comes to this format as its on the most formats


Good catch on MUSE HD laserdisc, homerx,


I forgot about that format.

If HD VMD can offer titles the others can't, that will be more for us HD Nuts!

please, this format is DOA

please, this format is DOA
It might be enough to kill all three.

It sounds like they have India pretty much all to themselves as a market. India is a big place. So I think the format will exist and be available whether or not it takes off here in the U.S.

and BTW you can get this movie on HD-DVD via xpolited

Yes I know I got all 3 on HD-DVD a few days after they came out ha.
I've got the LD, DVDs,D-VHS,UMD and HD-DVD I may add the Blu-ray just to collect. I belive theirs also a VHS, Betamax (although I've only seen pt.II for sale), CED and maybe VCD.

of course vcd's did really well in Asia but was never a threat to DVD...I am sure this will be a regional thing