I'm looking to go projection in my living room, and have been doing some research online, but I really don't know what to expect seeing as it's been years since I've seen a PJ system and there's simply no retailers nearby that do them..

Here's the basics:

The room itself is 16' wide, 20' deep and 10' high. At night it can be light controlled, but during the day there is some indirect light that gets through - I don't know exactly how to explain how much, but to give an idea my Nikon camera still requires a flash to take indoor pics during the day, but only just.. (not sure if that helps though).

From my research online, I've narrowed my choices down to the following PJ's:

Panasonic AX200 (720P, 2000 lm, 6000:1)
Sanyo Z5 (720P, 1100 lm, 10000:1)
Sony AW15 (720P, 1100 lm, 12000:1)
Epson TW700 (720P, 1600 lm, 10000:1)

Based on my local prices (Asian), the Panny, Sanyo are about the same, the Epson ~10% more expensive, while to Sony is ~30% cheaper. The Panny has the cheapest replacement bulb though - about half the price of the others in fact.

The projector will be ceiling mounted (at whatever the optimum distance is), firing onto either a 92" or 100" 16:9 screen. Viewing distance will be 13-15', and all seating positions are pretty much within the horizontal width of the screen itself, so super wide viewing angles are not necessary.

Usage-wise, the system will get about 3-4 hours usage during the day, and perhaps another couple of a night (so I know I'll be looking at regular lamp replacement), thus daytime viewing performance is the biggest issue.

As noted above, the room can be somewhat light controlled, but there will still be some diffuse light getting through. Even at night there will still be some ambient light present, as the room has adjoining rooms and we have kids, so absolute darkness is not an option. Here's a 3D rendering that gives an idea of the area:

http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingroomfloorcamnightbs7.jpg

(Note however that the room will soon be 6M deep - 20', rather than the 5.5M shown)

I don't have access to a lux meter so don't know how to be more specific light levels unfortunately.. I can however get a shadow box made to further minimize the amount of light getting onto the screen if necessary.

Onto the questions:

1. My research has led me to beleive that I should be looking at a gray screen rather than a white screen in order to improve contrast with ambient light - is this right?

2. What should or shouldn't I expect from my daytime viewing in regards to picture quality and brightness?

3. What sort of screen gain should I be looking at?

4. Should I be more seriously considering a shadow box?

5. Any thoughts or experinces with the projectors listed given my setup and viewing habits?

6. Any thoughts on screen size?

7. Can the lower power PJ's listed manage any useful daytime performance, or do I really just need to go with the brightest one?

8. What have I failed to consider or ask? :)

Update: here's some photos that might help in undertsanding the amount of ambient light I have to deal with during the day:

Curtains open: http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roomlightbrightrq5.jpg

Curtains closed: http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roomlightdarksv5.jpg

Unfortunately I didn't manage to get a full frame on the TV in the dark shot, but as you can see when the curtains are drawn closed the room definately isn't bright - it's dark enough that it takes your eyes a few moments to adjust if you've just walked in on a sunny day.. Does this help? Useful for a projection system or not?

I am coming from a different HT setup so I can't be of much help. I have a basement HT with complete light control. I use a DLP (HD70) and The PQ is very good.

I think you would want to use darker colored walls and darker, more translucent curtains. (rather than the transparent curtains in your pic.)

You might be able to have a Digital PJ work in your situation. I think there are screens which direct the light from the PJ more into the viewers eyes, than other screens. As well as not seeing the ambient light as much as other screens.
But you need to hear from those who use this equipment and have the same kind of light issue as you.

I would possibly consider a large LCD panel or even a DLP (or LCD) RPTV as the RPTVs are larger for less money.

But Projection is best. I do find that the wow factor really improves the closer the HT environment can be to 100% light control. A PJ loses a LOT more oomph in ambient light than the alternatives I mentioned.


I like your room schematic; makes it easy to see what there is to work with. A little (radical) modification could really make this room work. :cool:

Good luck.

I am coming from a different HT setup so I can't be of much help. I have a basement HT with complete light control. I use a DLP (HD70) and The PQ is very good.

I ebelive the HD70 is 1000 lumens (like th majority of PJ's) - what I'm hoping is that double that output will go a reasonable way to offsetting the ambient light in the room..


I think you would want to use darker colored walls and darker, more translucent curtains. (rather than the transparent curtains in your pic.)

Yep, there are big changes afoot..


You might be able to have a Digital PJ work in your situation. I think there are screens which direct the light from the PJ more into the viewers eyes, than other screens. As well as not seeing the ambient light as much as other screens.

I've heard that also - higher gain screens normally have poorer off-axis performance. In my situation there really won't be any off-axis viewing so this is a real option. The other thing I'd like to verify is whether a gray screen will give me improved daytime viewing - my logic tells me it'll improve contrast as it'll reflect less of the ambient light, but I'm only assuming.



I would possibly consider a large LCD panel or even a DLP (or LCD) RPTV as the RPTVs are larger for less money.

I have an old'ish 37" LCD TV that will be used for free to air SD stuff - there's no point in having 90+" of fuzzy crap being projected ;)


I like your room schematic; makes it easy to see what there is to work with. A little (radical) modification could really make this room work. :cool:

Good luck.

Thanks. The room isn't yet this big - the extensions are starting next month. So..... what radical mods would you suggest? :)

I've just stumbled across this nit-to-lumens converter:

http://www.joeinc.tv/tools/nits_to_lumens.xls

Acording to it, the Panasonic 2000 lm projector with a 92" 1.0 gain screen should manage a slightly brighter image than my 550 nit 37" LCD - in which case I'd be very happy.

I really don't know how accurate it really is though.. Any thoughts?

Ambient light requires a projector with a lot of light horsepower. The panasonic can throw a nice picture with the 'lights on' in my theater.

Ambient light requires a projector with a lot of light horsepower. The panasonic can throw a nice picture with the 'lights on' in my theater.

Thanks for the info Frank - when you say "lights on" are we talking about a decent amount of light, or controlled/dimmed light?

As an idea, if I draw the curtains during the day, turning on a single 36w fluorescent light makes the room noticeably brighter - coversely the room is brighter at night with the light on than it is during the day with the curtains drawn..

Does this sound like it might work with the Panasonic?

Also, any advice on screens?

Yes even with the lights on in my theater room I can see quite clearly. I usually have a reading lamp on in my room while I am viewing a movie and it has little effect on the image.

A 'carada' 100" brilliant white 1.3 gain screen is the companion. I highly endorse this screen. Brightness is 'not' an issue with this projector.

Hi Speedrazr,

Since you have seating within the sweet spot, and want some daytime performance, you should consider a retro-reflective screen like the Dalite HiPower or Optoma Greywolf.

However, to take advantage of the off-axis ambient light rejection your projector will have to be as close to eye level as possible, and you can't have any ambient light coming from behind the screen. Your first jpg indicates that you have windows on the opposite wall from the screen. This would make mounting a projector in the 'sweet spot' difficult, and kill a retro screen. If you could shift the orientation of the screen 90deg so that the windows are off to the side it could work for you.

From your diagram, this would mean either having the screen drop down between your livingroom and the diningroom and mounting the pj on a shelf on the opposite wall, or, mounting the pj on a table behind the couch on the dining room side and shooting onto the opposite wall.

In any of these scenarios I'd recommend a high lumen pj with lens shift like the Panasonic or Epson.

Jonathan

I ebelive the HD70 is 1000 lumens (like th majority of PJ's) - what I'm hoping is that double that output will go a reasonable way to offsetting the ambient light in the room..Sounds good.



I have an old'ish 37" LCD TV that will be used for free to air SD stuff - there's no point in having 90+" of fuzzy crap being projected ;)
I assume by SD you mean television programs. We don't watch much broadcast TV, but we did just finish watching "House" in HD via an OTA tuner. The PQ was excellent - motion artifacts, invisible. I bought an Accurian (Rat Shack) tuner a couple of years ago and it is amazing how many OTA stations there are that are in HiDef.
We mostly watch DVDs in our setup. A Bravo D1, an HTPC and a Philips 5982 (very good cheap player) are the sources. EDIT: lately I've watched a couple of football games and the image quality was high.

Thanks. The room isn't yet this big - the extensions are starting next month. So..... what radical mods would you suggest? :)
I think disappearing side doors could make the viewing room behave more to its purpose. The fewer distractions the better for the viewers, in order to get into the "show". :D And light control might be more possible.

But the way you have it will work well. I just think it could be changed a little to privatize the viewing area rather than have it be a "hub".

just buy a da lite high power screen, the gain adds crazy punch and it has a pretty good viewing angle, im running a weak Sanyo Z3 on a 106" screen and its plenty bright, i run on low lamp as well.

Hi Speedrazr,

Since you have seating within the sweet spot, and want some daytime performance, you should consider a retro-reflective screen like the Dalite HiPower or Optoma Greywolf.

However, to take advantage of the off-axis ambient light rejection your projector will have to be as close to eye level as possible, and you can't have any ambient light coming from behind the screen. Your first jpg indicates that you have windows on the opposite wall from the screen. This would make mounting a projector in the 'sweet spot' difficult, and kill a retro screen. If you could shift the orientation of the screen 90deg so that the windows are off to the side it could work for you.

From your diagram, this would mean either having the screen drop down between your livingroom and the diningroom and mounting the pj on a shelf on the opposite wall, or, mounting the pj on a table behind the couch on the dining room side and shooting onto the opposite wall.

In any of these scenarios I'd recommend a high lumen pj with lens shift like the Panasonic or Epson.

Jonathan

Yes, very difficult to use a retro refelective screen as the PJ really can't go ona coffee table nor on a stand behind the couch as I've got a 2.5yo daughter that just couldn't resist the temptation..

The only way to orient the room so that there's no windows at all behind the screen would be to rotate it all 180 degrees, placing the screen directly in front of the window behind the couch. This could work, but would be hard to get past the minister for decor..

I think the best compromise will be to leave the orientation as-is and get some backed curtains for behind the couch to eliminate light being refelected off the screen and directly back at the viewing location.

Given all of this, am I correct in assuming that the best screen option would be one that's more reflective rather than diffuse?

Does anyone know of a reflective screen that's better at rejecting light from the sides, but will allow a ceiling-hung PJ to refelect back down to the audience at couch level?

Hi Speedrazr,

The Vutec Silverstar is a very high gain angular reflective screen. It's only available as a fixed screen, no pulldown, and is a bit on the expensive side.

Some members here have built their own high gain torus screens ( curved ) with good results.

Jonathan

I think disappearing side doors could make the viewing room behave more to its purpose. The fewer distractions the better for the viewers, in order to get into the "show". :D And light control might be more possible.

But the way you have it will work well. I just think it could be changed a little to privatize the viewing area rather than have it be a "hub".

Just to clarify: by "disappearing sidedoors" I mean Pocket doors.
And by "hub" I mean a Grand Central Station-type of room. A Home Theater works best if it isn't a "pass-through" area.

All IMO. Each situation has its own needs and restrictions. But a Digital PJ HT does need light control to shine. Other display devices aren't nearly as demanding of this requirement to look their best.

Good luck! :)

The living room really has to be a fairly general purpose area, and as we're in the tropics, open airflow (both fresh and aircon) is an absolute requirement unfortunately.

However, phase two of our renovations includes extending our master bedroom out to ~500 square feet - in this room we'll be able to make a more effective, light controlled, traffic controlled and private HT setup:

91083

91084

You've got some real options there. Sounds (Looks) like you can take your time to explore each area. Nice.