Will somebody please call and wake up Verizon and tell them EVERYONE else is announcing new hd channels EXCEPT them!! What exactly is the problem over there?

I hear plenty of excitement in the air over at D* and now cable.

Around Verizon FiOS, all I hear are crickets chirping.

What gives?

:mad:

Will somebody please call and wake up Verizon and tell them

:mad:

I'd love to get FIOS. Have you called them to find out why no additional HD channels?

FiOS doesn't have the hardware at the VHOs and COs necessary to use much of their capacity. They are working to upgrade, but this is apparently requires another 6+ months of work. Why they waited so long (summer?) to begin these upgrades is anyone's guess.

Verizon has told people they will add a few new channels -- presumably the most popular ones -- in November. But significant new additions aren't expected until 2008.

One channel they won't be adding this year is TBS-HD. Verizon won't be ready to add new channels before late October and they feel that the bandwidth they still have available (until the VHOs and COs are upgraded) is better spent elsewhere.

FiOS doesn't have the hardware at the VHOs and COs necessary to use much of their capacity. They are working to upgrade, but this is apparently requires another 6+ months of work. Why they waited so long (summer?) to begin these upgrades is anyone's guess.

Verizon has told people they will add a few new channels -- presumably the most popular ones -- in November. But significant new additions aren't expected until 2008.

One channel they won't be adding this year is TBS-HD. Verizon won't be ready to add new channels before late October and they feel that the bandwidth they still have available (until the VHOs and COs are upgraded) is better spent elsewhere.That's interesting info that I didn't know. One thing, tho; what are VHO's and CO's?

great promises, baffling execution. it feels like dejaVoom all over again.

That's interesting info that I didn't know. One thing, tho; what are VHO's and CO's?
Verizon is relatively unique among cable systems in their design.

They have two SuperHeadEnds (SPEs), one for redundancy. These SPEs aggregate all digital cable content using fiber, dozens of big ugly dishes (BUDs), and a warehouse full of receivers, SD MPEG-2 encoders, and commercial insertion equipment.

The SPEs send the MPEG-2 video via SONET to video hubs (VHOs) in each region. I don't know the current count, but I believe there are now somewhere between 7 and 13 VHOs. The VHOs modulate the MPEG-2 channels from the SPEs into RF (QAM) for delivery to the home. A section of RF (QAM) spectrum is reserved for locals. The VHOs receive the local networks from broadcast affiliates in the region (typically via fiber) and modulate them onto the reserved QAM channels. The combined QAM signal is sent via fiber to each Verizon central office in the region with guide data.

Your local office receives that modulated QAM video from the VHO and combines it with voice and high-speed data. From there is sent to your home via fiber.

Verizon has 135 6MHz channels available between the CO and your home. The problem, as I alluded to above, is that the VHOs and COs evidently have the hardware to support only 103 of those 135 channels today. Depending on the VHO, anywhere from 54 to 63 of those channels is allocated to QAM, with the rest allocated to analog. The oldest VHOs may have 54 slots available for QAM while newer VHOs may have 63.

More comprehensive upgrades are apparently required to upgrade the VHOs and COs to use the remaining 32 channels, so for now, Verizon is working to eliminate the analog channels. It's not a matter of just switching off an analog channel and switching on a QAM channel because both use separate equipment at the VHO and CO; hence, new equipment must be installed in every VHO and CO.

Each QAM slot provides a minimum of 38.8 Mbps usable. Verizon currently allocates 7-9 SD channels per QAM and 2 HD channels per QAM. The average FiOS system probably uses 52-53 QAM slots today.

Verizon's first step may be to make all VHOs and COs capable of using 63 QAM slots, because the newer VHOs are already capable of that. Verizon rolls out channels nationally, not regionally, so some in newer FiOS markets are probably stuck waiting for older markets to upgrade their equipment.

Updated Friday, October 19

Verizon responded to this post on Engadget with, Ben, there is no "technological limitation” in our video hubs and central offices. In our fiber system it is just a matter of adding new equipment to increase capacity. That's certainly true.

The problem is that the equipment upgrades necessary require many months of work. In some cases, building upgrades are required because Verizon didn't include storage space for that equipment in their plans. Verizon is relying on contractors outside the company to perform many of these upgrades, which slows the process. It is possible some timetables have changed recently, but as of three months ago, Verizon engineering did not expect to have the capacity necessary to add most of the new DirecTV HD channels for another year (i.e. 4Q 2008). This information was supplied by employees working in the FiOS TV engineering department under Frank B.

There is now talk that Verizon could eliminate the analog channels by June or July, which would free up capacity for about 80 new HD channels. Whether management will authorize the resources necessary to make this happen is unknown.

Well, if Verizon hasn't installed FiOS yet, and are going to in, say, January or February 2008, how would my area be? All the new and good equipment to make use of all of the channels? Or the old ones that the VHOs have now?

Verizon has 135 6MHz channels available between the CO and your home. The problem, as I alluded to above, is that the VHOs and COs evidently have the hardware to support only 103 of those 135 channels today. Depending on the VHO, anywhere from 54 to 63 of those channels is allocated to QAM, with the rest allocated to analog. The oldest VHOs may have 54 slots available for QAM while newer VHOs may have 63.

Thanks for the detailed and well written explanation. I did a QAM channel scan and found only 54 QAM channels for my Sterling, VA location, so I may have an "older" CO setup. They must be using the 63 QAM channel setup at the Mercer County, NJ and Anne Arundel - Howard County, MD areas to provide the HD locals from two cities and the 3 HD RSN in NJ.

I now see the reason for the push to get rid of the analog channels if they have equipment for only 103 channels. Why 103? That is a odd limit; would have expected some multiple of 8,16,32 for equipment racks.

Verizon obviously made a serious mis-calculation on future digital bandwidth needs when they started to build the system. They started TV service only 2 years ago; one would think they would have been better prepared for a HD flood. If they had decided to not bother with putting the little watched local public access and government channels on the analog tier and made them digital only, they could have gone with, say, a total of 30 analog channels. Then they could have built out a total of 73 or so QAM channels and they would not have this bandwidth crunch for the new HD channels starting up this fall and early 2008. 54 QAM channels is only 40% of the available 135 QAM channels.

I would venture that a team or consultant did the analysis that said 54 QAMs is plenty for the channels that currently exist, so the bean counters directed to put only 54 QAM cards in place to cut costs. Now they have DirecTV firing a full HD broadside and they can't shoot back. penny wise, pound foolish.

My QAM analysis did find two half filled national QAM channels for QAM 85 with Lifetime Movie HD and QAM 103 with Nat Geo HD as the only channels at those QAMs, so they probably have room for two more HD channels in those slots. I also did not see any subchannels for QAM 93, so that may be open. But if they are limited to adding 4 or 5 HD channels for now, they will have to choose carefully. In that light, not adding TBS-HD for only two weeks of MLB playoffs may be the right decision. I rather see Discovery-HD, Sci-Fi HD, CNN-HD and when it is available, FX-HD.

Well, if Verizon hasn't installed FiOS yet, and are going to in, say, January or February 2008, how would my area be? All the new and good equipment to make use of all of the channels? Or the old ones that the VHOs have now?I'm sure the newest VHOs have most the equipment needed.

However, as I noted above, Verizon doesn't roll out new channels until they can deliver them to all service areas. Hence, it doesn't matter whether your region is ready or not if there is still work to be done at others.

how do you scan for QAM's?

There will be no TBS-HD until June 2008. I strongly doubt there will be ANY, repeat ANY new HD channels added before June. The upshot? THat is way too late for FiOS to survise. I spoke with somethere there at length about this and this person, not in the decision making chain of command agrees. What a total waste of money. Glad I don't own any Verizon stock.

One thing to keep in mind is that Verizon is JUST getting into the Video Business. What they are providing now is quite amazing if you think about Cable Companies and Sat Companies being around for YEARS. FIOS is a brand new technology. I know all the channels aren't here yet, but be patient. Verizon's stock has been climbing due to the success of FIOS. Verizon was told a few years ago that we'd never get Franchise Agreements, much less get the technology to work. Because Verizon has overcome both of those in a relatively short time period, the future of FIOS is looking super for FIOS.

Stick with it, because before you know it, Verizon will have the most (or as many as) HD channels of anyone, with capacity to keep growing and to give you faster internet access at the same time.

MPEG2 to MPEG4 conversion, maybe?

I strongly doubt there will be ANY, repeat ANY new HD channels added before June.

I'm scheduled for the install of FIOS TV for the 16th... I may change my mind if that's the case. I always thought that Fios capacity was NOT an issue, therefore I was sure that D* recent HD marathon would have put some pepper on V *** to add more HD.
Time to re-think I guess.

One thing to keep in mind is that Verizon is JUST getting into the Video Business. What they are providing now is quite amazing if you think about Cable Companies and Sat Companies being around for YEARS.

I'd swap for FiOS in an instant if I had the choice. TWC just announced 3 new HD channels for my area (the first announcement in about 8 months), bringing their grand total to 12 nationals with no technical indications they will be able to add any others this year. Even if FiOS can't update until June, they'll still probably be ahead in the channel count. Not to mention the broadband capacity. There is no way TWC will be offering 20Mbps connections.

And TBSHD is an abomination outside of baseball. They even stretch programming presented in OAR.

One thing to keep in mind is that Verizon is JUST getting into the Video Business.

Stick with it, because before you know it, Verizon will have the most (or as many as) HD channels of anyone, with capacity to keep growing and to give you faster internet access at the same time.

Why should I stick with Verizon if the competition is providing more channels. It is easy to go back to them once they are ready. If enough people vote with thier wallet, Verizon will have to change thier strategy. Just getting into the Video business should be an advantage since they can avoid mistakes the cable business made.

I have FIOS available and this is exactly why I chose D* for the next 2 years. FIOS is not the place to be yet folks. Its gonna take them awhile to add the channels and to upgrade that POS DVR they have. There is no guarantee that verizon is not more interested in SD customers at this point. That is where the money and numbers are.

Well, I know of about 30 people around the country who are dropping FiOS because of this after my posting on TVPredictions.com. I have also been in contact with people at Verizon who now see that they have really dropped the ball on this one. Even thoug they are new, they should have the foresight to have know that this channel would be a must have before the MLB playoffs. Most other providers seem to have. If I weren't going to be away most of November I would drop them myself,. Too many other things to deal with so I will wait till I get back.

Wow! Very interesting post. Verizon is really pushing current users to bundle their services at a GREAT price ($109 for all three), but you had sign a two year commitment

I have Fios internet and phone and wasn't interested in leaving D* (Sunday Ticket). I had no clue about their HD limitations. I imagine a lot of people will be salty a year from now if other provides are miles ahead in the HD game while Fios is still finding their footing and they are locked into long commitments....

Does anyone know if FIOS got Center Ice or if they are still trying to get it?

You guys are being waaaaay too Chicken Little about this. I'd wager good money that, come May 2008, Verizon subs still have more HD channels that 75% of all cable subscribers.

Is D* going to be above and beyond? Of course, but plenty of people would rather have broadband internet and fewer HD channels than pay a premium for 150 HD channels (most of which have little to no HD and will remain that way well beyond June 2008) and a premium for broadband internet from some other provider. D* might now be the provider for HD (and sure that gets a lot of credit with people on this forum), but some of you are being incredibly myopic.

Let's be honest, however crippled Verizon is from now until June 2008, much of the former Adelphia territories are going to be crippled well into the next decade, to say nothing of lesser providers. Where's the doom and gloom for Comcast and everyone else? I mean, hell, out in Charlottesville, VA (now Comcast, former Adelphia), they don't even have the capacity for ESPN Gameplan, and last I checked the HD offering was locals (no CW or MyNetTV), ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, and HD Theater.

If you want to talk about incredibly inept Verizon mismangement, let's talk about the IMG. Not this.

Is D* going to be above and beyond? Of course, but plenty of people would rather have broadband internet and fewer HD channels than pay a premium for 150 HD channels (most of which have little to no HD and will remain that way well beyond June 2008) and a premium for broadband internet from some other provider.


If you want to talk about incredibly inept Verizon mismangement, let's talk about the IMG. Not this.


You can keep phone and internet with V* and not pay a penalty. The penalty is attatched to internet service. I am very close to switching my tv service to D* while maintaining the Verizon "double play".

I am just waiting for D* to release the HR21 pro dvr and the balance of the new hd channels before I pull the trigger. And honestly, I hope by then V* announces at least the addition of History HD and the Discovery HD stuff. The kids stuff, cnn, weather and all the additional movie stuff can wait (at least for me).

If that announcement does come from V*, I'll stick and with V* and invest in the tivo3.

Come on V* - you can do anything you put your mind to (and $$). You just have to make it a priority.

We'll see....

You can keep phone and internet with V* and not pay a penalty. The penalty is attatched to internet service. I am very close to switching my tv service to D* while maintaining the Verizon "double play".

I am just waiting for D* to release the HR21 pro dvr and the balance of the new hd channels before I pull the trigger. And honestly, I hope by then V* announces at least the addition of History HD and the Discovery HD stuff. The kids stuff, cnn, weather and all the additional movie stuff can wait (at least for me).

If that announcement does come from V*, I'll stick and with V* and invest in the tivo3.

Come on V* - you can do anything you put your mind to (and $$). You just have to make it a priority.

We'll see....

FIOS is there priority at the moment. Seriously. They've invested mega bucks over the past few years for the FIOS undertaking. Verizon also sells DirecTV service under one of their package offerings. They may not do it in areas they offer FIOS TV, I'm not sure. I know they do it in areas they do not offer FIOS TV. I have D* and am happy with the channels. If Verizon FIOS was in my area, I would think long and hard about it just because of the 'current' channel counts. I think I'd quickly turn to Verizon because I could have the phone, SUPER HIGH SPEED INTERNET and Video in one package. You will see a plethera of HD channels eventually. Especially HD ON DEMAND. Verizon's bandwidth far exceeds that of any other provider. But, if you are "for the now", FIOS may not be the best option for channels. As another poster said, you can always switch back to FIOS WHEN they have more channels.

So... after reading the AVS this morning, and realizing the limitation for FIOS TV in adding new HD channels, I reviewed the D* special package offer I have. Now here's the beauty: Verizon still packages Direct TV with their bundle for FIOS Internet (20mb download - 5mb upload) and telephone, thus giving a freedom essential credit of $26 per month for at least 24 months..
Result: Direct TV premier pkg, fios 20/5 internet, phone (long distance included) = $133

I hope all of you out there with the ability to get FIOS internet can take advantage of this as I have. Glad to share it with you all.


I'm so excited I started a new thread !!!

I have FIOS available and this is exactly why I chose D* for the next 2 years. FIOS is not the place to be yet folks. Its gonna take them awhile to add the channels and to upgrade that POS DVR they have. There is no guarantee that verizon is not more interested in SD customers at this point. That is where the money and numbers are.

I suspended my D* account and went to FIOS last month. First off FIOS has fast guides, no reboots and MUCH better SD signal...there is no comparison there. I have a decent amount of HD stations and the HD stations are better than D* (overall)....even compared the MPEG 4 locals from D*.

Like a few people mentioned the amount of "real" HD content just isn't enough and won't be for a while....so I have my RSN (which I could not get with D*), much better SD and better HD.....albeit less stations in HD, though.

Now, I have not checked out their (D*) new HD line up and the PQ, but from what I have read there are mixed reviews.

I did enjoy D* and would go back to them if I had to. Their CS is decent, outages are rare and they have done me well over the 7 years I had them.
FIOS is "new" and will take time to catch up, but I am optimistic that as FIOS grows bandwidth issues will be less of a problem.

You guys are being waaaaay too Chicken Little about this. I'd wager good money that, come May 2008, Verizon subs still have more HD channels that 75% of all cable subscribers.

Is D* going to be above and beyond? Of course, but plenty of people would rather have broadband internet and fewer HD channels than pay a premium for 150 HD channels (most of which have little to no HD and will remain that way well beyond June 2008) and a premium for broadband internet from some other provider. D* might now be the provider for HD (and sure that gets a lot of credit with people on this forum), but some of you are being incredibly myopic.

Let's be honest, however crippled Verizon is from now until June 2008, much of the former Adelphia territories are going to be crippled well into the next decade, to say nothing of lesser providers. Where's the doom and gloom for Comcast and everyone else? I mean, hell, out in Charlottesville, VA (now Comcast, former Adelphia), they don't even have the capacity for ESPN Gameplan, and last I checked the HD offering was locals (no CW or MyNetTV), ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, and HD Theater.

If you want to talk about incredibly inept Verizon mismangement, let's talk about the IMG. Not this.


Sorry, but after speaking with verizon and knowing what it will take to get more bandwidth to add more HD channels, I have no confidence at all that there will be any more than 2 or 3 HD channels added before the end of 2008. They are WAY behind the curve and slipping badly.

There will be no TBS-HD until June 2008. I strongly doubt there will be ANY, repeat ANY new HD channels added before June. The upshot? THat is way too late for FiOS to survise. I spoke with somethere there at length about this and this person, not in the decision making chain of command agrees. What a total waste of money. Glad I don't own any Verizon stock.
But that is not the result of my QAM analysis and I get only 54 QAM channels. Even with that limited number of QAM channels, they have two 1/2 used QAM channels, 1 unused QAM channel in what appears to be a national channel block. Now those may used by a HD RSN somewhere which is why I would like people to go to the diagnostics page when their 6416 is tuned to the RSN and report what the tuner frequency is for that channel. If we can figure out where they put the HD RSNs and local HDs, we have some insight into how they using their available bandwidth.

Some national HD channels don't come close to using the full 19.2 MB/sec data rate such as Universal HD or HBO-HD. Some simple channel reshuffling by moving a few SD sub-channels into the QAM channels with two less than full rate HD channels, move some of the SD sub-channels around so they have 9 per QAM & clear out several SD only QAM channels, will free up bandwidth for a few more HD channels. Now I expect some of the VHO and COs with 63 QAM channels are using some of the 9 additional QAM channels for local and RSN HD channels, but they are probably not using them all. I should periodically hook up the Fios cable and do a QAM channel scan to see if 9 QAM channels have been added to get to 63.

There have been repeated reports from people who have claimed to talk to the higher ups at Fios, that they will add some more HD channels this fall. The question is when, how many, and exactly which channels? There will be a bunch to choose from. We don't need to panic and spread that much FUD around. I suggest that a balanced understanding of the current situation is more helpful.

The issue is how fast can they kill the analog channels and replace them with QAM? Even if they could do the swap right away, they likely have to get approval from some of the local government oversight boards first and send out the DCT 700 boxes. It is obvious that having to shut down the analog channels barely 2 years after starting up the service, that it was a expensive mistake to offer any analog at all. Likely a lot of fairly new expensive hardware is being yanked and put aside.

Sorry, but after speaking with verizon and knowing what it will take to get more bandwidth to add more HD channels, I have no confidence at all that there will be any more than 2 or 3 HD channels added before the end of 2008. They are WAY behind the curve and slipping badly.

How are they way behind? They already have more national channels than TWC. If you think Verizon doesn't have the hardware try switching to a cable market that hasn't installed SDV yet. Which is most of them. The rollout for the TWC SDV timetable stretches until the end of 2008 and until that's installed they are even more screwed for bandwidth.

Take a look here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472

and note that what it says at the top is an estimate for cable users. You might get some of those but not everyone does. For example the total for nationals in this area is 14, and that includes the channels they are adding this month. And not everyone is getting those.

I am fully aware of their infrastructure and what they have the capacity to add or not add now. They are moving at a snails pace to increase their capacity and make no effort at all to make public their plans. I am sorry but I have little faith that they will be able to deliver or should I say make an effort to deliver more than a handful of new HD channels next year. One would have thought that a start up service that had the chance to built a system that blows away cable would have had the foresight to max out on their capacity from the gitgo. They have not and now have to spend a lot of cash to do so, which is why you hear the talk about removing analogs. That is not the anwser and may take years. They will have a hard time catching up with Directv with all the HD channels they are adding. Verizon had the chance to strike when the iron was hot and have now blown that opportunity. They may not get a second chance. Not having TBS-HD available when they could have added it right now technically, is inexcusable. If they are not able to grasp this now, I wonder if they ever will. Sorry, just my humble opinion.

Some national HD channels don't come close to using the full 19.2 MB/sec data rate such as Universal HD or HBO-HD. Some simple channel reshuffling by moving a few SD sub-channels into the QAM channels with two less than full rate HD channels, move some of the SD sub-channels around so they have 9 per QAM & clear out several SD only QAM channels, will free up bandwidth for a few more HD channels. Now I expect some of the VHO and COs with 63 QAM channels are using some of the 9 additional QAM channels for local and RSN HD channels, but they are probably not using them all....

.

EXACTLY.
Besides the channel re-shuffling you mention, If they lower the data rate, (even "temporarily" until end of '08), on a few HD channels, such as LifeMovie, Wealth & TNT, to "Universal HD" or Satt type "HD lite" quality, that would open up even more bandwidth still for addtnl channels NOW.
My guess is that with both of these ideas, they could add most of the "important" HD's right now (SciFiHD, TLC, USA, Disc ect ..) without waiting till end of '08 ...

I am fully aware of their infrastructure and what they have the capacity to add or not add now. They are moving at a snails pace to increase their capacity and make no effort at all to make public their plans. I am sorry but I have little faith that they will be able to deliver or should I say make an effort to deliver more than a handful of new HD channels next year. One would have thought that a start up service that had the chance to built a system that blows away cable would have had the foresight to max out on their capacity from the gitgo. They have not and now have to spend a lot of cash to do so, which is why you hear the talk about removing analogs. That is not the anwser and may take years. They will have a hard time catching up with Directv with all the HD channels they are adding. Verizon had the chance to strike when the iron was hot and have now blown that opportunity. They may not get a second chance. Not having TBS-HD available when they could have added it right now technically, is inexcusable. If they are not able to grasp this now, I wonder if they ever will. Sorry, just my humble opinion.

I'm sorry, but where is the competition coming from? As it stands, only D* clearly has more capacity than Verizon right now, and Verizon still kills nearly every cable system, particularly Comcast and TWC systems.

Verizon may not have the extreme advantage that they led us to believe they had, and maybe your expectations far outstrapped their capabilities, but as it stands Verizon has 19 national HD channels, all local channels except isolated holdouts, and many RSNs in most areas. They have a robust VOD service, have plans to roll out HD VOD, and at least show clearly that they're planning an ambitious service with the (highly flawed) rollout of the IMG. They're taking a national approach, which means they're always going to be better equiped than a cable company which has to piece together highly variable (and aging) local cable systems. And D* will never offer VOD or broadband services without an unforeseen technological breakthrough.

So I ask again, how can they be doomed? Certainly they're missing an opportunity with HD right now, and certainly they've made some mistakes, but on balance I'd say FiOS has been immensely successful.

most comcast areas have 25+ HD channels E* close to 40 and D* has 60+ right now with more by the end of the year. so yes they are behind the rest i'm afraid

I am fully aware of their infrastructure and what they have the capacity to add or not add now. They are moving at a snails pace to increase their capacity and make no effort at all to make public their plans.

So how is this different to the actions of the second largest cable provider in the US? It is exactly the same.

Before the middle of September TWC customers had no idea when they would be getting any new HD channels, and now the three for this month have been announced we are back in the dark again.

SDV deployment schedule is a mystery to the vast majority unless you are in a test bed. The software it requires is still basically a beta over a year after it was (disastrously) released and we've still not had a full customer rollout. Despite the "Coming Soon" support guide that was added to the TWC NC site back in March. When will it arrive? Who knows?

I expect a lot of other cable customers have similar tales but don't have the benefit of the number of channels FiOS already have. To say they are falling behind when they are already ahead of a lot of other providers in several areas is an over exaggeration. Are you sure you aren't just annoyed because TBS HD didn't appear this month, because it sure sounds like it. If TBS wasn't owned by Time Warner I wouldn't have been surprised if that hadn't appeared on TWC this month while everyone else was getting it.

Compare FIOS to the rest of the providers next Summer and see how they stack up. If they aren't still ahead of some markets (especially TWC ones) even without making significant upgrades, I'll be surprised. If you think it's dark on the FIOS end of customer support, try moving to the black hole side of TWC.

most comcast areas have 25+ HD channels E* close to 40 and D* has 60+ right now with more by the end of the year. so yes they are behind the rest i'm afraid

According to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472), Comcast has no more than 12 in any area, and most areas have far fewer (as I pointed out previously in this thread). The only cable system with more is Cablevision, and only because it has Voom. I'd wager all the money in my bank account that come May 2008 (before Verizon is able to launch new HD), Verizon will still outpace the vast majority of cable companies in HD offerings.

So what it boils down to is that satellite has more HD than Verizon. Congrats, in the myopic world where nothing but available HD networks matters, Verizon may not be the choice for you over the coming year. On the other hand, if price, PQ, broadband, bundled services, VOD, and a whole laundry list of other things are important to you, satellite is probably not going to cut it (to say nothing of the fact that 90% of D*'s new HD channels barely air any HD at all). And, of course, if you have an ounce of patience, waiting on Verizon is probably going to reap some major benefits in the short term.

According to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472), Comcast has no more than 12 in any area, and most areas have far fewer (as I pointed out previously in this thread). The only cable system with more is Cablevision, and only because it has Voom. I'd wager all the money in my bank account that come May 2008 (before Verizon is able to launch new HD), Verizon will still outpace the vast majority of cable companies in HD offerings.

So what it boils down to is that satellite has more HD than Verizon. Congrats, in the myopic world where nothing but available HD networks matters, Verizon may not be the choice for you over the coming year. On the other hand, if price, PQ, broadband, bundled services, VOD, and a whole laundry list of other things are important to you, satellite is probably not going to cut it (to say nothing of the fact that 90% of D*'s new HD channels barely air any HD at all). And, of course, if you have an ounce of patience, waiting on Verizon is probably going to reap some major benefits in the short term.

Just beciase the other options stink doesn't mean that Verizon has to take the same tact. HD is the future, plain and simple. As a new provider with a state of the art system, I expected better. The fact that TWC is silent on their plans does not mean Verizon has to be. To compete against more established players, they have to differentiate themselves. They did at the start with better pricing and better PQ and more HD which is why I switched from Comcast. Now they have dropped the ball and trust me, Comcast is taking every advantage of it, at least in the Philly market. They will do an install for a FioS customer now in a heart beat. Once you leave customers dissatisfied, you may not get another look. IN otehr markets, with all those HD channels carried by Directv and their promotion of it, they may not get any looks there either.

Just beciase the other options stink doesn't mean that Verizon has to take the same tact. HD is the future, plain and simple. As a new provider with a state of the art system, I expected better.

Very true, but considering how well they came out of the gate you still have several advantages that a vast number of people don't have. You might be disappointed now but in comparison to how long you've had it how much of that time was disappointment? They dropped the ball this time, but at least give them time to pick it up before you start calling the game.

Right now Verizon is getting hammered by Direct TV and Dish, just like everyone else is. Do you think that Comcast stepped up to the customer plate in your market due to the TBS HD decision that they have everywhere else? If they are anything like TWC they are happy to sit back and do nothing in areas without FIOS.

I'm still waiting for Cinemax HD to arrive at TWC Raleigh and that's been on the air over 3 years!

I'm sorry, but where is the competition coming from? As it stands, only D* clearly has more capacity than Verizon right now, and Verizon still kills nearly every cable system, particularly Comcast and TWC systems.

Verizon may not have the extreme advantage that they led us to believe they had, and maybe your expectations far outstrapped their capabilities, but as it stands Verizon has 19 national HD channels, all local channels except isolated holdouts, and many RSNs in most areas. They have a robust VOD service, have plans to roll out HD VOD, and at least show clearly that they're planning an ambitious service with the (highly flawed) rollout of the IMG. They're taking a national approach, which means they're always going to be better equiped than a cable company which has to piece together highly variable (and aging) local cable systems. And D* will never offer VOD or broadband services without an unforeseen technological breakthrough.

So I ask again, how can they be doomed? Certainly they're missing an opportunity with HD right now, and certainly they've made some mistakes, but on balance I'd say FiOS has been immensely successful.

It was my understanding that D* announced that VOD was coming soon.

I can't believe people are complaining about FiOS, just because they are going to be 6 mos to a year behind D* in adding additional HD channels. I had E* for a few years since I first got HDTV (2001), switched to D* for another few years, finally to FiOS a few months ago. The quality difference (HD and SD) is nite & day. I know that D* is now mpeg4; which I never had; but they had a two year (or more) history of being made fun of on AVS for "HD Lite", making compromises, delaying channel launches, etc.

FiOS has all the programming I need for now. I'll take quality over quantity any day.

yep no TBS-HD on fios, meaning no MLB playoffs in HD and meaning all the pissed off ppl in Phildadelphia can't watch their Phillies in the playoffs for the first time in 14 years in HD so it mine as well be 1993 again when there was no HD

this was the last straw for me and getting rid of fios after having it less then ayear. itsnot as good as Comcast which also isn't the best thoug and iddin't want to just go back to Comcast so I"m trying DirecTV with their 60 HD chans including TBS-HD and soon to be 150 hd chans by the end of dec. so its good to get in now with the current pricing that you will be grandfathered in with when it goes up in dec. when they get all the new hd chans.

but even right now for the next 2 months till they get way more andblow comcast and fios out of the water, dtv still has more hd chans then the other 2 now.

I can't believe people are complaining about FiOS, just because they are going to be 6 mos to a year behind D* in adding additional HD channels. I had E* for a few years since I first got HDTV (2001), switched to D* for another few years, finally to FiOS a few months ago. The quality difference (HD and SD) is nite & day. I know that D* is now mpeg4; which I never had; but they had a two year (or more) history of being made fun of on AVS for "HD Lite", making compromises, delaying channel launches, etc.

FiOS has all the programming I need for now. I'll take quality over quantity any day.

Well said. These are my sentiments as well. As I would love for FIOS to add 10 more HD channels, however, I am more pleased with the quality of HD they are providing and do not want them to downrez everything to cram in the extra channels alla E* or D*. I will be patient with Verizon and wait until next year before I get all giddy regarding the number of HD channels.

According to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472), Comcast has no more than 12 in any area, and most areas have far fewer (as I pointed out previously in this thread). The only cable system with more is Cablevision, and only because it has Voom. I'd wager all the money in my bank account that come May 2008 (before Verizon is able to launch new HD), Verizon will still outpace the vast majority of cable companies in HD offerings.

So what it boils down to is that satellite has more HD than Verizon. Congrats, in the myopic world where nothing but available HD networks matters, Verizon may not be the choice for you over the coming year. On the other hand, if price, PQ, broadband, bundled services, VOD, and a whole laundry list of other things are important to you, satellite is probably not going to cut it (to say nothing of the fact that 90% of D*'s new HD channels barely air any HD at all). And, of course, if you have an ounce of patience, waiting on Verizon is probably going to reap some major benefits in the short term.

well that article is inaccurate I have 22 HD channels where I live in Manassas Va

210 ABC

211 NBC

212 CBS

213 FOX

214 CW

215 My Network

220 PBS

224 National Geo

225 Disc HD Theater

226 MOJO

227 MHD

228 HBO

230 HD On Demand

232 TBS

233 Cinemax

238 Showtimw

248 Starz

249 TNT

251 CSN Mid Atlantic

252 ESPN

253 ESPN2

254 Versus/Golf

So thats 22 for me others have these and also have NFL A&E FOOD HGTV CNN and Universal so for Comcast thats 28.

FIOS isn't availble where I live yet and I have considered switching over but with D doing this I have to reconsider

well that article is inaccurate I have 22 HD channels where I live in Manassas Va

210 ABC

211 NBC

212 CBS

213 FOX

214 CW

215 My Network

220 PBS

224 National Geo

225 Disc HD Theater

226 MOJO

227 MHD

228 HBO

230 HD On Demand

232 TBS

233 Cinemax

238 Showtimw

248 Starz

249 TNT

251 CSN Mid Atlantic

252 ESPN

253 ESPN2

254 Versus/Golf

So thats 22 for me others have these and also have NFL A&E FOOD HGTV CNN and Universal so for Comcast thats 28.

FIOS isn't availble where I live yet and I have considered switching over but with D doing this I have to reconsider

Ummmm, 11 of those channels are either local or premium. That's about what D* had before the launch of D*10 sat. Between the locals, premium and other HD, Verizon FIOS offers 28 HD channels here in NJ.

The quality is better than when I had D* ( for 7 Years) on both SD and HD.

The complaining on this subject is amazing and I think it all stems to the TBS thing. I'm from Philly, but I can't watch the games anyway because of the goofy times/schedule ....if your ticked at anyone it should be the MLB and how they set this up.

Same thing in Boston. Verizon SUCKS plain and simple. I got rid of comcast and signed up with Verizon a few months ago. What a let down. Watching last nights games was pathetic.

well that article is inaccurate I have 22 HD channels where I live in Manassas Va

that article doesn't count locals. Local HD broadcast service and deals vary by affiliate and do not count. It's for national channels only and doesn't include on demand either.

By that reckoning you have 14.

14>12

just kidding

since I still don't have FIOS in my area its either this or D or E if I want to switch

if you count the other six or so that I mentioned some other comcast subs have its up to 20

FiOS national channels:
TNT HD 825
ESPN HD 826
ESPN 2 HD 827
NFL Network HD 828
HD Net 833
HD Net Movies 834
Universal HD 835
Discovery HD 836
Wealth TV HD 837
National Geographic Channel HD 838
MHD 839
Food Network HD 840
HGTV HD 841
Lifetime Movie Network HD 845
HBO HDTV 851
Cinemax HDTV 852
Showtime HDTV 853
TMC HDTV 854
Starz HDTV

Comcast national channels in Baltimore:
223 A&E
224 National Geographic
225 Discovery
226 MOJO
227 MHD
228 HBO
229 HGTV
231 Food
232 TBS
233 Cinemax
238 Showtime
246 NFL
248 Starz
249 TNT
250 Universal
252 ESPN
253 ESPN2
254 Golf/Versus

Channels Comcast has deals with (and we are reportedly going to get more channels this fall):
CNN
History
USA

FiOS: 19
Comcast: 18, going on 21

I was expecting FiOS to add a lot more channels. For now I'm satisfied with Comcast.

thanks

FiOS national channels:
TNT HD 825
ESPN HD 826
ESPN 2 HD 827
NFL Network HD 828
HD Net 833
HD Net Movies 834
Universal HD 835
Discovery HD 836
Wealth TV HD 837
National Geographic Channel HD 838
MHD 839
Food Network HD 840
HGTV HD 841
Lifetime Movie Network HD 845
HBO HDTV 851
Cinemax HDTV 852
Showtime HDTV 853
TMC HDTV 854
Starz HDTV

Comcast national channels in Baltimore:
223 A&E
224 National Geographic
225 Discovery
226 MOJO
227 MHD
228 HBO
229 HGTV
231 Food
232 TBS
233 Cinemax
238 Showtime
246 NFL
248 Starz
249 TNT
250 Universal
252 ESPN
253 ESPN2
254 Golf/Versus


And to compare to both - national channels in Raleigh:

Discovery HD Theater
MOJO
MHD
HBO
TBS (just added)
Showtime
TNT
Universal
ESPN
ESPN2
HD Net
HD Net Movies
Golf/Versus (later this month)
A&E (later this month)

More channels? No clue.

If FiOS is indeed falling behind, they'll trip over TWC Raleigh sleeping in the road. I'd be happy with either FiOS or the Baltimore Comcast lineup.

I'm pretty happy with FIOS.

I had DirecTv for five years and Comcast for about ten. The SD on DirecTv was horrible. I had gotten so used to it, that when I got FIOS, I thought I was seeing HD on SD channels. I have four TV's, one is HD. I watch about half or 2/3 of SD only, with many movie and sports channels available only on SD. FIOS is head and shoulders above any others in SD, which is important for now. The clarity and steadiness has been great.

On the HD front, unlike many people here apparently, I like what I'm seeing so far. I see documentaries ("The War") now, as much sports programming as I want (Patriots, Sox, Celtics, Bruins) on on local HD, other sports (some soccer, other NFL games...) on the nationals. Unlike others, I like Wealth HD, my wife and mother in law love HGTV HD, etc. Would I like more channels? sure... but I'm not getting off this train because I don't get VOOM or Versa HD right now.

FIOS has been less expensive, a good combination of good service and excellent TV + internet + phone offerings. Can it improve? sure, and I think it will. DirecTv is rolling out these new channels because it finally got its satellite up live. It won't be able to afford to put up more too often, so what you get now is probably it for a while. I expect that eventually, as more HD channels become available, given its static bandwidth, DirecTv will go back to HD lite, and the SD channels will suffer even more. They've done it before, what will prevent it now?

The FIOS future for now is probably a few new HD channels, HD VOD, upgrading the infrastructure, eliminating the analog channels and eventually IP based deliveries, which will knock most providers out of the water.

I agree, I'd like to see the Sox playoff on HD (NESN HD), but that I blame on Major League Baseball. If they were on one of the mainstream channels, I'd be seeing them on HD. As someone else mentioned, if not for the playoffs, would you really be clamoring for TBS HD?

So I'll stay with FIOS. I see what I want, don't have to deal with DirecTv's arrogance and phantom charges (HD delivery charge my ...).

Ummmm, 11 of those channels are either local or premium. That's about what D* had before the launch of D*10 sat. Between the locals, premium and other HD, Verizon FIOS offers 28 HD channels here in NJ.
The proper way to compare this is for the national HD channels and the premium movie channels as two categories. The HD locals vary too widely to be meaningful. Fios has 13 national HD and 5 premium movie channels.

Comcast is catching up to or has moved ahead of Fios in total number of national HD channels in most? many? of their franchise areas, although it is a different set of channels. Comcast does not have HDNet and HDNet Movies because, in part, they seem to have a bug up their rear about HDNet (based on smack down comments from Comcast execs when asked why they don't have HDNet). To me, that is a big negative for Comcast HD.

With the new satellite, DirecTV has pulled ahead in both national HD and premium movie channels with all the Starz HD channels added to set. However D* surprisingly has not yet added 3 national HD channels that Fios has: Food, HGTV, National Geographic. But those 3 along with FX, MGM and others are listed as October adds, so they will be on the D* satellite before too long - well, assuming no hold-ups.

The key is the national HD and premium channels Fios has not yet added. This list is a lot longer than it was before August 15 and will get longer when the next several waves get added to the D* HD satellite. Some of these new channels are not going to have that much HD, but many will have enough HD programming that HD subscribers would like to see the channel added. If Verizon plans to add a few more HDs in November, it would nice of them to clearly say so and to also explain why the delay to November. They knew the D* satellite was coming, why not add some HD channels right at the same time? I have to wonder if much of the engineering resources were drawn off in rolling out the new IMG before they realized just how not-ready for release the software was and stopped the roll-out.

well your compring fios to old dtv first off when the point is dtv is going places & making things happen. they will have on demand next month while fios still doesnt have hd on demand.

the cons of fios compared to comcast far outweigh the pros especially when the one redeeming quality of fios is supposed to be the better sd pq & even slight better hd. i have both fios & comcast & its the opposite. my comast looks better so there goes fios supposed one redeeming quality.

fios was is & will be for some time, a dud. i gave it enough time & it has been not as good as comcast at least in philadelphia which to be fair is comcast country but we arent the only city trying to watch the mlb playoffs in hd. we just prob the only that hasnt been in the playoffs for 14 years when there was no hd.

needless to say ppl in phila with fios are screwed & pissed. for me it was the last straw & the push i needed to drop fios & try dtv now with 60 hd chans (already more then comcast & fios) with soon to be 150 hd chans at which point he price will go up unless you get in now at a lower price that wont change fr he already subscribed even when he price goes up.

your quality over quantity goes right out the door & in the end everyone wants more hd chans not jut some supposed better quality which again i dont see & in fact quite the opposite.

if dtv dosnt work out we'll go back to comcast which im not saying is perfect but we had it for years & were always atisfied as ven when here as problems the always made up for it with credits etc.

fios is clearly the worst of the three main choices in my area (dtv, comcast, & fios) & dtv seem to be on the up & up making the most improvements the fastest. verison will gt sick of losing money on fios tv & funding it from other services they offer so its just a matter of time before fios tv is dead b verizon goes back to including dtv in their triple & ultimate play plans ( which they till do, though supposedly only in areas that dont have fios tv yet)

funny how the one guy touts vod for fios as this great thing when comast has had hd vod & more vod in general while fios vod is limited (aka piss poo) & has been promising hd vod since they launched but still never came all this time and who knows when.

watching the fightn phils in hd on tbs-hd now in my basement home theatre (where luckily i kept comcast despite having fios through most the rest of the house), tbs isnt the only chan tha fios wont be getting in hd (even though every other provider does) anytime soon. there are a few other chans that they wont be getting anytime soon.

you keep waiting for fios to get better. its just lik ps3. no matter how great it may get later on, the bottom line fact is that it flopped & is currently in last place. and its no guarantee that its eventually going o catch up to the competition let alone beat them.

well your compring fios to old dtv first off when the point is dtv is going places & making things happen. they will have on demand next month while fios still doesnt have hd on demand.

the cons of fios compared to comcast far outweigh the pros especially when the one redeeming quality of fios is supposed to be the better sd pq & even slight better hd. i have both fios & comcast & its the opposite. my comast looks better so there goes fios supposed one redeeming quality.

fios was is & will be for some time, a dud. i gave it enough time & it has been not as good as comcast at least in philadelphia which to be fair is comcast country but we arent the only city trying to watch the mlb playoffs in hd. we just prob the only that hasnt been in the playoffs for 14 years when there was no hd.

needless to say ppl in phila with fios are screwed & pissed. for me it was the last straw & the push i needed to drop fios & try dtv now with 60 hd chans (already more then comcast & fios) with soon to be 150 hd chans at which point he price will go up unless you get in now at a lower price that wont change fr he already subscribed even when he price goes up.

your quality over quantity goes right out the door & in the end everyone wants more hd chans not jut some supposed better quality which again i dont see & in fact quite the opposite.

if dtv dosnt work out we'll go back to comcast which im not saying is perfect but we had it for years & were always atisfied as ven when here as problems the always made up for it with credits etc.

fios is clearly the worst of the three main choices in my area (dtv, comcast, & fios) & dtv seem to be on the up & up making the most improvements the fastest. verison will gt sick of losing money on fios tv & funding it from other services they offer so its just a matter of time before fios tv is dead b verizon goes back to including dtv in their triple & ultimate play plans ( which they till do, though supposedly only in areas that dont have fios tv yet)

Questions:

Are you using the hr20? If so how does it compare to the moto6416? How is the "30 second slip"?

How does sd and hd pq with D* compare to V*?

Did you cancel everything with V* and was there a penalty?

Thanks.

funny how the one guy touts vod for fios as this great thing when comast has had hd vod & more vod in general while fios vod is limited (aka piss poo) & has been promising hd vod since they launched but still never came all this time and who knows when.

watching the fightn phils in hd on tbs-hd now in my basement home theatre (where luckily i kept comcast despite having fios through most the rest of the house), tbs isnt the only chan tha fios wont be getting in hd (even though every other provider does) anytime soon. there are a few other chans that they wont be getting anytime soon.

you keep waiting for fios to get better. its just lik ps3. no matter how great it may get later on, the bottom line fact is that it flopped & is currently in last place. and its no guarantee that its eventually going o catch up to the competition let alone beat them.

Wow, you blab a lot. I swear, if a page goes by without 10 of your posts, I think you take it personally. Vamoose.

At the end of the day I can have Fios or Comcast, but you're still annoying.

You can drop the TV at any time with no penalty but if you drop the internet before the end of the contract, you have to pay $99.00. I checked into this yesterday. I take Quatre with a grain of salt. He bitched about FiOS from the beginning even though the PQ was better than Comcast. PQ quality seems to really be in the eye of the beholder though as I see people watch sets that are set in torch mode that the people think look fantastic which in fact look awful. I trust my own eyes with a properly calibrated display.

well this is a fios thread so of course you are going to have ppl that are bias to what theyhave which is fios and flame anyone who says something bad about fios. But the thread is about the lack of hd channels on fios and them not keeping up with the competition in general and as far as HD the still lack of hd on demand could be mentioned while its just forever promised for some time on the horizon though when many signed up a year ago it was promised within a few months and here we are still with no hd on demand.

It is an opinion but I do have comcast and fios which not many have both to do an in house comparison. My hd displays are isf pro calibrated btw.

this is a forum for discussion so if you dont like blabbing then stay away rather then post a flame attempt with nothing useful towards the actual discussion. that type of person is the most annoying to most.

glad to hear not etf for canceling fios tv. i'm going to give dtv a try as while i know its prob not perfect the sheer # of hd channels is a huge plus and blows the other 2 away in that category. They seem to be making the most improvements the fastest while fios never really got their act togethe in the first place and I see no improvements.

i think they have given up on fios as a money losing endeavor for them.

if dtv doesnt work out, i'll go back to comcat and be fine with it as it was always satisfactory. fios was supposed to be an improvement and be better then comcast but it never was and was in fact worse in most ways, and i've given them enough time

Did Verizon add a new HD channel in the last week? I'm in the Phila area and there is a channel "HDT"....I don't recall what it is, but it's not on the July channel line up. I'll have to double check.

Did Verizon add a new HD channel in the last week? I'm in the Phila area and there is a channel "HDT"....I don't recall what it is, but it's not on the July channel line up. I'll have to double check.

Thats HD Theater, formally Discovery HD Theater. since discovery launched the 4 new HD channels, and one of them is Discovery HD. Discovery HD Theater changed their name, and dropped the "Discoveyr" part. It is the same channel we have had since the beginning, but they have a new name.

So how is this different to the actions of the second largest cable provider in the US? It is exactly the same.
That is correct. TWC and FiOS are in the same boat, along with a lot of other cableco's and Dish Network.

The new HD gold standard is DirecTV.

Did Verizon add a new HD channel in the last week? I'm in the Phila area and there is a channel "HDT"....I don't recall what it is, but it's not on the July channel line up. I'll have to double check.

Nope, not a new channel. Just Discovery HD Theater renamed to HD Theater.

I love my FIOS (Had it for 2 years+ now) in Northern Virginia. I am not about to switch anytime soon. Our internet is amazing and reliable, and the PQ is magnificent on every channel, HD or not.

I am really disappointed about the lack of press releases or any information about new HD channels. I could care less about TBS, but I'd love to get Sci-Fi, USA, Bravo, and FX. All these channels have original programming that I know is taped in HD.

I wish FIOS would just say something.

i think they have given up on fios as a money losing endeavor for them.LOL. Apparently you're not much up on current events are you? :)


ron

i should hve been more specific. they are losing money on fios TV. that is from ppl insie he company.

keep in mind the 100's of millions they spent to build out the sytem from he ground up laying fiber in every neighborhood. they knew they had to get a ton of subscribers to even break even & steal more then half of all tv subscribers of one kind o another to make a profit. the havent done that & ppl in the phil area at last have been migrating back to comcast.

fio tv has been a money losing flop or the most part so they may eventually discontinue it.

they will prob go back to jut offering dtv with their internet & phone packages. there is no etf if you cancel fios tv as long s you keep your other internet b phone services & you can even get a discount when packaging dtv with those other services.

fios tv was a nice idea but it flopped so far & might be too little too late by the ime they ever improve. they made too big of pomies that they didnt fullfill b forgot to match the comptition first before claiming they ere bettr.

ps. i hate his blckjack keyboard that misses letters so half my the's look like he and my & symbol ends up being a b cus the function key i press doesnt take.

cant edit my above post as im using the mobile version of he site but it seem to be completely readable despite a few mising letters here b there.

they don't seem to be doing that bad to me:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?symbol=VZ

anecdotal evidence is sh*t. "i know a guy whose brother's aunt's 2nd cousin works for Vz and they said they're losing money! Oh Noooooes!"

The argument doesn't hold anyway. The 100s of millions of dollars spent to build out the system are irrelevant to whether continuing to operate the service is profitable. That money has been spent. It's a sunk cost. All that is relevant is whether they can gain enough subscribers to pay the continuing cost of maintaining the plant and providing the service.

If the cost of laying the fiber dominates, it is difficult for me to understand how it could be a better decision to operate just Internet and phone service without the television service.

/jab

Trust me on this.

It is all part of a long term business plan of recapturing their capitol investment.

Keep in mind Microsoft is just starting to become profitable in their xbox product line due to the initial costs of hardware and marketing etc. There is no question in my mind that products as widepsread and costly as this are not canned because they haven't made money in a 5 year period. There is a major time horizon with regard to profitability in any endeavor that has this much intense capitol outlay. I am Franchise consultant and many times a simple fast food joint does not achieve profitability within the same time that fios has been up and running.

That said, they have made key errors in judgement with regards to their competition. In my opinion, the most important thing to many hdtv owners is the ability to not have to watch shows that they like in HDTV. Quality of the hd or sd for that matter is secondary. At this point in time they are clearly behind DBS in terms of channel offerings in HD and compared to cable they don't have RSN's nationwide in HD or VOD in HD. This is a major issue. The question is, when will they address it?? Every month they sit around doing nothing they will dig a larger hole for themselves to dig out of. Consumers, including myself, love new technology but not at the expense of being the beta testers while we are paying for it.

Every month they sit around doing nothing they will dig a larger hole for themselves to dig out of. Consumers, including myself, love new technology but not at the expense of being the beta testers while we are paying for it.

not to argue, but how do we know they're doing nothing? it seems the only thing we DO know is that we don't know.

Still no new guide here. It was due out in August, no September, no October. Just release it already. The East coast already has it. No love for the south I guess. :(

Still no new guide here. It was due out in August, no September, no October. Just release it already. The East coast already has it. No love for the south I guess. :(

You should be happy they have not released the buggy first version of the IMG in your area. Hopefully they will just release the version 2 with most of the bug fixes. I would be happier if they kept the old IMG and gave us new HD channels.

Still no new guide here. It was due out in August, no September, no October. Just release it already. The East coast already has it. No love for the south I guess. :(
I was not aware that PA, NJ, NY were in the south. VA on the other hand got the IMG in mid-August. The areas that did not get the buggy feature deficient IMG were PA, FL, TX, NJ, NY. They are now on the list of areas that will get the IMG "by the end of 2007". Those lucky bastards! See http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/item?case=c30701.

The 6416 crashed on me again last night. It was recording a program while I was watching another channel and crashed right at the time the recording was done. Thinking back, I might have been changing channels at that time, so the buggy software may have tried to switch tuners while one was closing out a recording session. Have to test this theory. Anyway, I have lost count of the number of crashes I have had with the new IMG, but I have lost only 1 or 2 recordings (and those may be due to bad guide data messing up series recordings).

I hope if Verizon has a new version that fixes some of the worse bugs, that they will give to the current IMG users first. If you have not gotten the new IMG yet, consider that a good thing.

I'm not really worried about new HD channels on FiosTV. I'm sure we'll get them soon enough.

When Verizon finalized their current lineup this summer, correct if I'm wrong, but it seemed they added every HD channel that was currently available. The fact that they added HD channels like Lifetime, HGTV, and Wealth meant to me they were scrapping around for every possible HD channel they could add. It was only in the last month or so that the new 20+ desirable HD channels came out. They missed Verizon lineup change that occurred slightly earlier. So I have a good feeling the next time Verizon reorganizes the FiosTV lineup, they will once again add every HD channel that is available.

I'm not really worried about new HD channels on FiosTV. I'm sure we'll get them soon enough.

When Verizon finalized their current lineup this summer, correct if I'm wrong, but it seemed they added every HD channel that was currently available. The fact that they added HD channels like Lifetime, HGTV, and Wealth meant to me they were scrapping around for every possible HD channel they could add. It was only in the last month or so that the new 20+ desirable HD channels came out. They missed Verizon lineup change that occurred slightly earlier. So I have a good feeling the next time Verizon reorganizes the FiosTV lineup, they will once again add every HD channel that is available.

you stand corrected. there were several HD channels that they did not add. Some of the more obvious ones were Outdoor Channel, Golf/VS and Mojo. The first two for sure were available to them, as they carry the analog versions and all they had to do was pick it up from the providers. There are others and I am sure people will be more than happy to provide you the list

you stand corrected. there were several HD channels that they did not add. Some of the more obvious ones were Outdoor Channel, Golf/VS and Mojo. The first two for sure were available to them, as they carry the analog.
When they added Food, HGTV, LMT HD back in April, the available national HD channels that they did not add also included A&E-HD. There were also the 15 Voom channels, but even if Verizon could get those, they don't have the bandwidth at this time. Mojo is owned by Comcast, Time Warner, and Cox, so it would be understandable they were not to allow Fios to have that channel. It was a little surprising that Verizon did not add A&E-HD, although they may have known that there was not much HD on A&E-HD. But we are now approaching 6 months since Verizon last added any national HD channels.

A person who claims to have worked for Verizon that the reason for adding Lifetime Movie Network HD was that they felt the HD line-up needed more channels for the female viewers. Food-HD and HGTV-HD would fall in the same category.

not to argue, but how do we know they're doing nothing? it seems the only thing we DO know is that we don't know.

Go back in this topic the last few days and read JWhip's comments.

Go back in this topic the last few days and read JWhip's comments.
Why? JWhip comes across as a Comcast/TW FUD plant. The most detailed post I've seen here recently about what Verizon is doing to get more QAM channel was by bfdtv in post #6 of this thread. I can confirm that I currently have 54 active QAM channels in Sterling, VA. Even with that limited set, there is room for more HD channels even without much channel reshuffling.

they don't seem to be doing that bad to me:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?symbol=VZ

anecdotal evidence is sh*t. "i know a guy whose brother's aunt's 2nd cousin works for Vz and they said they're losing money! Oh Noooooes!"

ok what i can say for sure is that ppl that tried fios in pila area are migrating back to comcast in droves. And all I care about is my pesonal opinion after having both and at the same time and fios is a big loser flop.

so keep defending fios for some unknown reason but you can't deny it hasn't delivered after promising a lot

"That said, they have made key errors in judgement with regards to their competition. In my opinion, the most important thing to many hdtv owners is the ability to not have to watch shows that they like in HDTV. Quality of the hd or sd for that matter is secondary. At this point in time they are clearly behind DBS in terms of channel offerings in HD and compared to cable they don't have RSN's nationwide in HD or VOD in HD. This is a major issue. The question is, when will they address it?? Every month they sit around doing nothing they will dig a larger hole for themselves to dig out of. Consumers, including myself, love new technology but not at the expense of being the beta testers while we are paying for it."

agreed with the above quote and more or less what I was trying to say in simpler terms, but because I jump the conclusion to say that they may discontinue unprofitable tv service may not be a wise business decision on their part to pull the plug on it, fact is that right now more ppl are canceling it then subsribing to it. they've made ppl think its better and made ppl want what they cant have because its not in their area yet but once ppl catch wind that its actually worse then what they currently have (ie. comcast) and that they aren't missing anything by not having it intheir area then they wont have ppl wanting what they cant have intheir favor. or for those that stay in the dark to the reviews of the service, when they finally do get it intheir error will likely have it for less then a year as i did before canceling and going back.

will it be better then TWC in some areas , maybe and will a few ppl keep it because they are lazy or dont know any better sure. but all i can reiterate is that its the worst of the 3 main choices in my area. And thats not cus i'm anti verizon or pro anything else that is just facts right now based on hd channel offering and on demand etc. plus my opinion.

believe me , I wanted Fios to be better, but it wansn't and isn't getting any better any time soon. Maybe i'll come back to fios some day when they improve it and properly keep up with the competition. i'm not bias to any company or service, i just go what is best and for the money. I dont know why other ppl seem to be so defensive of fios.

ok what i can say for sure is that ppl that tried fios in pila area are migrating back to comcast in droves. And all I care about is my pesonal opinion after having both and at the same time and fios is a big loser flop.

what evidence do you have to back up that statement?

so keep defending fios for some unknown reason but you can't deny it hasn't delivered after promising a lot

Not exactly sure what they promised you, but I get the same service I did with D* without the annoying environmental interruptions that came with DBS based service. Oh yeah and the SD is far and away better. I dispise cable so no comment there.


believe me , I wanted Fios to be better, but it wansn't and isn't getting any better any time soon. Maybe i'll come back to fios some day when they improve it and properly keep up with the competition. i'm not bias to any company or service, i just go what is best and for the money. I dont know why other ppl seem to be so defensive of fios.

The only thing i see that FiOS is lacking behind is the additional HD channels that D* just delivered. and how long did they say "it was coming" before it actually got here?

I had Direct TV for 7 years and when I went HD, they wanted too much money and had too few channels to make it worthwhile. So I went to Comcast. My experience w/them is just like everyone else's on this thread, so I won't bore you w/my dissatisfaction w/Comcast. I was thrilled to get FIOS. The HD is great, the SD is better than Comcast (as is the service). Am I waiting for more HD? You bet. I am impatient and want everything in HD. I want everything in HD that every other cable provider carries as well. But it will happen when it happens. I am not switching back to Comcast and Direct TV just sent me a flyer for totally free installation and upgrades, blah, blah, blah. If Comcast is better for you, then keep it. It will probably take another 5 years until all of the channels are broadcast in HD. But until then, we will see new channels added in dribs and drabs.

i should hve been more specific. they are losing money on fios TV. that is from ppl insie he company.

keep in mind the 100's of millions they spent to build out the sytem from he ground up laying fiber in every neighborhood. they knew they had to get a ton of subscribers to even break even & steal more then half of all tv subscribers of one kind o another to make a profit. the havent done that & ppl in the phil area at last have been migrating back to comcast.

fio tv has been a money losing flop or the most part so they may eventually discontinue it.

they will prob go back to jut offering dtv with their internet & phone packages. there is no etf if you cancel fios tv as long s you keep your other internet b phone services & you can even get a discount when packaging dtv with those other services.

fios tv was a nice idea but it flopped so far & might be too little too late by the ime they ever improve. they made too big of pomies that they didnt fullfill b forgot to match the comptition first before claiming they ere bettr.


I am not sure where you are getting the flop comment from? As with all infrastructure projects the capital costs are high initially. However, verizon is doing very well in the areas they have subscriber agreements. In fact, they are doing better than forecasted.

I read an article a couple of months ago talking about the mad scramble all these communication companies are doing to get in your door. According to the article in the next couple of years 5-10 it will all be about getting content to the living room and bedroom TV... they described content as video and web. The companies that get into the living room and bedrooms will be the survivors, the ones that do not will fade away or get out of the business.

does anyone know where i can see fios will be added soon?

[/SIZE[SIZE="5"]
I recently switched from Cablevision to Fios.
First off Fios claim they have the best picture is not true. Cablevision's picture in SD was better than Fios and HD was just as good.
Cablevision's HD selection 42 vs. 22 for Fios is also much better. Fios gives you WealthTV-HD (Yawn) and Food-HD (Double Yawn) while cablevision has all the old VOOM HD channels including UniversalHD MonsterHD MoviechannelHD and the GOLFHD channel (which is included in your Cablevision at no extra cost whereas everything in Fios is an extra fee). I had to watch the baseball playoffs in SD because TBS-HD is not available on FIOS even though on cable and satellite you can get it.
I pay about $20 more in surcharges and fees every month. Try to find an explanation for a "Video Franchise FEE" on their web site, good luck. Even when you call them about this fee they dont even explain it right.
And forget about equipment fees. With Cablevision I paid about $20 a month extra for equipment including DVR, now with FIOS I pay about $38 a month for the same amount of service almost doubled.
FIOS nickels and dimes you to death just like SIRSurcharge tells you in the commercial.
The only reason I switched companies was the phone service was terrible with Cablevision cause if you were on the phone and your intermet service froze your call went dead. All their remedies failed to work and the frustration level became to high.
FIOS needs to listen to their customers more instead of being in it "Only for the Money".
All's they can tell you is we are looking into everything which means nothing is being done

not to go off topic but how is Fios's internet connection?

It is not a flop right now in NOVA but they need to add at least hd vod to keep up , period.
The one thing that they don't want to do is get a bad reputation with the consumer, the other options, however some may view them, are far more established video providers. In other words, if FIOS looses customers in its infancy , getting them to return may be much harder than they think.

One major thing that FIOS has going for it is the superior internet connection, I think there might be a hesitation for consumers to switch video when they are so pleased with the internet.

It all boils down to a mix of price , quality and content. Right now they have 2 out of 3 so they will stay in the ballgame. But the content has to at least keep pace, and there is no question that it was told to many( like myself) repeatedly that fios would be the trend setter with it's unlimited bandwidth. With regards to this strategy to really over promise and under deliver, it is something that they have to be careful about. The consumer is fickle, people remember being lied to, especially when they had to have their yard dug up to install the product.

I think that the odd man out here is definitely Dish Network, I don't see how, with out sunday ticket and no other added value over d* how they can stay in the market place. I guess the government would intervene to enforce the Sherman Act in some way. But they definitely are a horrible place strategically.

I was not aware that PA, NJ, NY were in the south. VA on the other hand got the IMG in mid-August. The areas that did not get the buggy feature deficient IMG were PA, FL, TX, NJ, NY. They are now on the list of areas that will get the IMG "by the end of 2007". Those lucky bastards! See http://netservices.verizon.net/portal/link/help/item?case=c30701.

The 6416 crashed on me again last night. It was recording a program while I was watching another channel and crashed right at the time the recording was done. Thinking back, I might have been changing channels at that time, so the buggy software may have tried to switch tuners while one was closing out a recording session. Have to test this theory. Anyway, I have lost count of the number of crashes I have had with the new IMG, but I have lost only 1 or 2 recordings (and those may be due to bad guide data messing up series recordings).

I hope if Verizon has a new version that fixes some of the worse bugs, that they will give to the current IMG users first. If you have not gotten the new IMG yet, consider that a good thing.


I never said they were in the south. I said they already got it, thus the east coast reference. I'm in the south. No love here.

But thanks.

not to go off topic but how is Fios's internet connection?

Excellent. Best in the business so far. I started with the 15 Mbit down /2 Mbit up in the Boston area, upgraded to 20/5 for the same price. I expect the next step up is 30/5. I pay $42 / month, there is a 5/2 plan for about $10 less (price of two beers?).

This is also the real speed (on a wired link) as metered by several programs, continuously. I had a supposed 8 Mbit down / 1 Mbit up link from Comcast for years that was actually a 2-3 Mbit down / 250k up most of the time. It never hit 6 never mind 8.

ok what i can say for sure is that ppl that tried fios in pila area are migrating back to comcast in droves. And all I care about is my pesonal opinion after having both and at the same time and fios is a big loser flop.

so keep defending fios for some unknown reason but you can't deny it hasn't delivered after promising a lot

"That said, they have made key errors in judgement with regards to their competition. In my opinion, the most important thing to many hdtv owners is the ability to not have to watch shows that they like in HDTV. Quality of the hd or sd for that matter is secondary. At this point in time they are clearly behind DBS in terms of channel offerings in HD and compared to cable they don't have RSN's nationwide in HD or VOD in HD. This is a major issue. The question is, when will they address it?? Every month they sit around doing nothing they will dig a larger hole for themselves to dig out of. Consumers, including myself, love new technology but not at the expense of being the beta testers while we are paying for it."

agreed with the above quote and more or less what I was trying to say in simpler terms, but because I jump the conclusion to say that they may discontinue unprofitable tv service may not be a wise business decision on their part to pull the plug on it, fact is that right now more ppl are canceling it then subsribing to it. they've made ppl think its better and made ppl want what they cant have because its not in their area yet but once ppl catch wind that its actually worse then what they currently have (ie. comcast) and that they aren't missing anything by not having it intheir area then they wont have ppl wanting what they cant have intheir favor. or for those that stay in the dark to the reviews of the service, when they finally do get it intheir error will likely have it for less then a year as i did before canceling and going back.

will it be better then TWC in some areas , maybe and will a few ppl keep it because they are lazy or dont know any better sure. but all i can reiterate is that its the worst of the 3 main choices in my area. And thats not cus i'm anti verizon or pro anything else that is just facts right now based on hd channel offering and on demand etc. plus my opinion.

believe me , I wanted Fios to be better, but it wansn't and isn't getting any better any time soon. Maybe i'll come back to fios some day when they improve it and properly keep up with the competition. i'm not bias to any company or service, i just go what is best and for the money. I dont know why other ppl seem to be so defensive of fios.

Verizon is surpassing projections to the tune of possibly meeting its 4 million subs goal a year ahead of schedule. That doesn't sound like a flop to me.

Still no new guide here. It was due out in August, no September, no October. Just release it already. The East coast already has it. No love for the south I guess. :(

Hey Chris, we don't have it in N.Y. either...so you're not alone. To be honest, I don't even think about it anymore. They've missed so many dates, I just assume what I have is what I'll get.

[I recently switched from Cablevision to Fios.
First off Fios claim they have the best picture is not true. Cablevision's picture in SD was better than Fios and HD was just as good.


Having had Cablevision and now FIOS, I can't agree. Although I'm frustrated by what I hear regarding additional HD, there's no way that Cablevision's I/O digital SD was better than FIOS.

I have FIOS available and this is exactly why I chose D* for the next 2 years. FIOS is not the place to be yet folks. Its gonna take them awhile to add the channels and to upgrade that POS DVR they have. There is no guarantee that verizon is not more interested in SD customers at this point. That is where the money and numbers are.

Hey Vurbano, is that YOU...defending D*. I've been with you all along regarding D*'s miserable compression and down-rezzing. I've been extremely pleased with FIOS after having D* for so many years. It's only very recently I've become disgruntled with the lack of new HD from FIOS. But, until D* moves some very very popular HD channels to Mpeg4, I have some serious doubts about switching back.

I'm only guessing, but I bet by the time D* switches all their Mpeg2 to Mpeg4, FIOS will have all the new HD channels. We shall see.

Having had Cablevision and now FIOS, I can't agree. Although I'm frustrated by what I hear regarding additional HD, there's no way that Cablevision's I/O digital SD was better than FIOS.Well, I'm sure it varies by the channel you watch. For example, in the past, people have complained about some of the animation / kids channels on FiOS.

A few channels like Fox News are no better for me than Comcast. However, on most of the digital SD channels I watch, picture quality is a very obvious improvement over the digital simulcast on Comcast. Those channels include:

CNN
CNBC
FX
History, Military, etc
USA

A number of SD channels on FiOS feature resolution of 704x480 with bitrates as high as 4.5 Mbps . All of my Comcast SD digital channels were 528x480 or 544x480, with bitrates no higher than 3.0 - 3.2 Mbps.

comcast has usa at leat in HD and dtv has cnbc, fx, history and usa in hd so i hope fios better have a better sd pq then sd versions of competion being they dont hve an hd version of it.

but i dont now about cablevision other then i heard its crappy. i'm talking aout the 3 main best choices in teh Phila areas. And Comcast sd and hd pq is equal or better to fios, so there goes fios one redeeming quality.

the supposed speculative better sd quality was never worth all that you lost with comcast anyway including hd on demand and better working dvr boxes etc. etc.

many ppl that had comcast and switch to fios and have since switched back. fios is a bit of a flop so far.

[SIZE="4"][/SIZE
I recently switched from Cablevision to Fios.
First off Fios claim they have the best picture is not true. Cablevision's picture in SD was better than Fios and HD was just as good.
Cablevision's HD selection 42 vs. 22 for Fios is also much better. Fios gives you WealthTV-HD (Yawn) and Food-HD (Double Yawn) while cablevision has all the old VOOM HD channels including UniversalHD MonsterHD MoviechannelHD and the GOLFHD channel (which is included in your Cablevision at no extra cost whereas everything in Fios is an extra fee). I had to watch the baseball playoffs in SD because TBS-HD is not available on FIOS even though on cable and satellite you can get it.
I pay about $20 more in surcharges and fees every month. Try to find an explanation for a "Video Franchise FEE" on their web site, good luck. Even when you call them about this fee they dont even explain it right.
And forget about equipment fees. With Cablevision I paid about $20 a month extra for equipment including DVR, now with FIOS I pay about $38 a month for the same amount of service almost doubled.
FIOS nickels and dimes you to death just like SIRSurcharge tells you in the commercial.
The only reason I switched companies was the phone service was terrible with Cablevision cause if you were on the phone and your intermet service froze your call went dead. All their remedies failed to work and the frustration level became to high.
FIOS needs to listen to their customers more instead of being in it "Only for the Money".
All's they can tell you is we are looking into everything which means nothing is being done

ok so i guess CAblevision is better then fios, i thought it was just comcast and dtv that were better.

so fios is ony as good or better then what now? TWC?

not to go off topic but how is Fios's internet connection?

to prove i can say something positive about fios, i will say the internet sevice is half decent. i have 15/2 and its pretty good with stable speeds.

i will be keeping it but at first i was a little anoyed i had to pay more for the 15/2 as the 5/2 wasn't as fast as the comcast cable modem connection i had before.

somehow with comcast i had a super fast top tier speeds connection from speed tests that fios didn't think i could be getting from cable modem but i was. and i was grandfathered in paying the lowest price before they had tiered speeds andpricing.

so that ws disappointing at first switching to fios and having to pay more for 15/2. but again its been decent. just sucks they dont offer 20/5 in my area as the next jump up from 15/2 is 30/5 or something and its like triple or more theprice so not worth it at all.

Hey Vurbano, is that YOU...defending D*. I've been with you all along regarding D*'s miserable compression and down-rezzing. I've been extremely pleased with FIOS after having D* for so many years. It's only very recently I've become disgruntled with the lack of new HD from FIOS. But, until D* moves some very very popular HD channels to Mpeg4, I have some serious doubts about switching back.

I'm only guessing, but I bet by the time D* switches all their Mpeg2 to Mpeg4, FIOS will have all the new HD channels. We shall see.

you switched to fios at the wrong time. when fios had hgtv hd and food hd before comcast they were the best in our area with a couple mroe hd chans though not as good as comcast in other ways still and no hd on demand all this time since they launched though it was promised long ago.

now fios has fallen behind comcast even in hd chans let alone everything else that they never matched them in.

i'm not ruling out switching back to fios some day when they are back on top, but it seems from what is known and also not said by fios that it is going to be awhile before they even match teh hd chans of comcast and some they may never get.

as far as catching up to DTV, that is goign to be even longer if ever. so i'm thinking i'll be with dtv a long time before there is any need to switch bck to fios. even if dtv doestn work out, i'm happy to go back to comcast as we never had any problem with it that we did with fios tv.

and you can get out of fios tv with no etf and even get a discount for having dtv and fios internet and phone.

to prove i can say something positive about fios, i will say the internet sevice is half decent. i have 15/2 and its pretty good with stable speeds.

i will be keeping it but at first i was a little anoyed i had to pay more for the 15/2 as the 5/2 wasn't as fast as the comcast cable modem connection i had before.

so that ws disappointing at first switching to fios and having to pay more for 15/2. but again its been decent. just sucks they dont offer 20/5 in my area as the next jump up from 15/2 is 30/5 or something and its like triple or more theprice so not worth it at all.

LOL.. Pretty good? How many different experiences have you had with fios and comcast, just your one home? Fios is leaps and f-ing shoulders above other ISP's so far. A friend not far was on adelphia, it was slow and acted up.. They got bought out by comcast and it's even worse. My gf has lived in two places, both with comcast. At one place it was HORRENDOUS (<1mbps, and they said it was fine, always). And at the new place it drops out periodically and speeds are ok. I'm not a verizon fanboy (as a matter of fact I HATE with a passion their customer service), but I stick with them because their actual service is top notch (same with verizon wireless).

Also, what was your upload speed with comcast? I HIGHLY doubt it was 2mb, but was probably the usual lousy 768Kb. IMO, a nice upload speed is crucial. Why in God's name do you even need 15 or 20 Mbps download? I can maybe understand if you live with a bunch of friends and you're all d/ling stuff on ********** all day, but you probably shouldn't be doing that in the first place. lol I credit fios because EVERY SINGLE TIME I've run a benchmark to test the speed, it's rock solid and as advertised. Comcast is all over the place from one minute to the next.

I do know for a fact that comcast doesn't even offer 5Mb upload speeds, and I can understand why verizon charges so much. In terms or reliability and performance, fios hands down wipes the table with comcast (I know several people that have fios, all share my same opinion).

Now, back on topic.. It sounds like good old fashioned poor management and planning on verizon's part. I fully understand why people would want to ditch fios tv for more channels. I will stay put since I feel the bang for the buck far exceeds cable and directv. I can live w/o the new HD channels for a little while (they added quite a few HD channels before anyone else did so no complaints there).

thanks for telling me off about the internet services they provide in comparison to one competitor. i exlained i had a rare fast cable modem conecti with comcast for a lower price, the price being the key. i already said that the fios internet services was good. Then you barrade me about why do i need the speed. many ppl have faster connections then 15/2, and id ont have to explain to you why I need it or what type of business i do from home etc.

this thread is about Verizons lack of adding new HD chans like the competition when they are actually supposed to have more bandwidth adn capability then cable companies but so far it seems opposite.

in fact i never brought up internet in here i dont think, others did to defend verizon fios services.

i could see if this is a bias pro fios tv thread but its not, it is about exactly what i'm complaining about and why i'm dropping them. they have not kept their promises, haven't improved and arent making additions and improvements lik their competition. its as ift hey dotn care about the tv service much and have therefore fallen to the 3rd best choice in my area of 3 main choices.

Having had Cablevision and now FIOS, I can't agree. Although I'm frustrated by what I hear regarding additional HD, there's no way that Cablevision's I/O digital SD was better than FIOS.


ABSOLUTEY RIGHT - I switched from Cablevison to FIOS in late May. The SD picture is vastly superior to Cablevison and even the HD is noticebly better.

As far as price goes, I was paying Cablevision $140/mo. (including taxes) for TV and internet service, including one DVR . I'm now paying Verizon $134/mo. for comparable TV service, which includes TWO DVR's, and FASTER internet service. No promotions of any kind.

Am I disappointed by the inexcusable delay in the addition of HD channels - hell yes. But why would anyone switch back to crapola Cablevision when in six to eight months Verizon will be poised to match even Direct TV in HD channels. As far as the VOOM channels go, they are useless "eye candy" and a waste of precious bandwith - HDNet is worth more than all of them combined.

i'm still waiting on the statistics to support the statement that "a lot of people are dumping verizon".

i'm still waiting on the statistics to support the statement that "a lot of people are dumping verizon".

Verizon is still expanding...at least in Marlton,NJ they are at 3-5 weeks for installation. maybe they are short handed, but I doubt it.

Also, I have had D* for 7 years....actually, my account is suspended while I try FIOS. I am a little bummed about the HD programming but I have my RSN which is a huge plus!!!

FIOS HD and SD (overall) is better than D*. But Verizon's lack of hd programming and "tight lipped" reputation perturbs me a bit. There is no secret to letting customers know they plan on having a HD channel by.....

To me, this is ignorance and causes people to "hang in there" guessing that 6 new hd channels "could" be added any day. It's a bit annoying.

Anyway, it's a trade off at this point because alot of the SD channels on fios are SD on D*, but FIOS has MUCH better SD PQ. However, on the other hand their are some nice HD channels on D* that I'd love to have....TBS, Discovery channel and a few others....but NO RSN. That's the killer. Well, I guess I'll be the fool who waits by the TV for more HD channels!!! I can ALWAYS fall back to D* if all else fails!!!

mikelets456: D* just added a bunch of RSNs so check the sticky to see if yours is there.

mikelets456: D* just added a bunch of RSNs so check the sticky to see if yours is there.

Which sticky? Do you need the sports pack or subscribe to "....league pass"

A number of SD channels on FiOS feature resolution of 704x480 with bitrates as high as 4.5 Mbps . All of my Comcast SD digital channels were 528x480 or 544x480, with bitrates no higher than 3.0 - 3.2 Mbps.

bfdtv, I may have missed it, but I can't recall seeing bitrates & rez #s for the HD channels on FIOS. Since you've got them for SD, do you have these for HDs?

you switched to fios at the wrong time.

Not really. I switched to FIOS about a year ago, as soon as they were available in my area. So for a year I've enjoyed better HD picture quality with more quantity than D*. It's only literally within the last couple of weeks that has changed. So I would have done the same thing if I had to do it over again.

As I said before, the same low quality, compressed, reduced resolution Mpeg2HD channels are still there on D* with no announcement as to when/if they will be restored to full quality. It's still a mixed bag on D*.

Verizon is still expanding...at least in Marlton,NJ they are at 3-5 weeks for installation. maybe they are short handed, but I doubt it.

Also, I have had D* for 7 years....actually, my account is suspended while I try FIOS. I am a little bummed about the HD programming but I have my RSN which is a huge plus!!!

FIOS HD and SD (overall) is better than D*. But Verizon's lack of hd programming and "tight lipped" reputation perturbs me a bit. There is no secret to letting customers know they plan on having a HD channel by.....

To me, this is ignorance and causes people to "hang in there" guessing that 6 new hd channels "could" be added any day. It's a bit annoying.

Anyway, it's a trade off at this point because alot of the SD channels on fios are SD on D*, but FIOS has MUCH better SD PQ. However, on the other hand their are some nice HD channels on D* that I'd love to have....TBS, Discovery channel and a few others....but NO RSN. That's the killer. Well, I guess I'll be the fool who waits by the TV for more HD channels!!! I can ALWAYS fall back to D* if all else fails!!!

yeah i know. my comment was directed towards Quatre and his unsubstantiated comments about subscribers leaving Vz for not "fullfilling their promises". If he's got such a hard on for bashing Vz, he's should at least provide some emperical data to support his claims rather than make blanket statements about the company and service based upon his experiences.

Well, according to posts in the other VZ Programming thread, some customers are reporting seeing A&E HD listed on ch 842 .. While their screen is still black, this probably indicates we are all getting this channel rolled out over the next couple of weeks ...
Bummer .. I was hoping that Someone @ Fios would have been able to "re-coinoiter" :) their rollout to get SciFi, USA or Disc/Bravo out first ...
Here's hoping that at least 1 more HD rolls out along with A&E ...

bfdtv, I may have missed it, but I can't recall seeing bitrates & rez #s for the HD channels on FIOS. Since you've got them for SD, do you have these for HDs?I haven't made a list, but I can tell you the resolution and bitrate for any national channel on FiOS.

Well, according to posts in the other VZ Programming thread, some customers are reporting seeing A&E HD listed on ch 842 .. While their screen is still black, this probably indicates we are all getting this channel rolled out over the next couple of weeks ...
Bummer .. I was hoping that Someone @ Fios would have been able to "re-coinoiter" :) their rollout to get SciFi, USA or Disc/Bravo out first ...
Here's hoping that at least 1 more HD rolls out along with A&E ...

Ok - which geographical area?

Ok - which geographical area?
His member info says CA, so I assume that is where he is. We should wait to get a confirming report from some one else in CA or another region where they added a placeholder for a channel 842 before we get too excited.

It was me who reported it in the other thread. Info was good as of 6:30 AM Pacific Time. Since I am at work I cannot confirm if it is still there.

I haven't made a list, but I can tell you the resolution and bitrate for any national channel on FiOS.

How about HDNet & Discovery HD?

How about HDNet & Discovery HD?

Discovery HD isn't on FiOS yet right? You must be talking about "HD Theater"

Oh yeah, got an email from Discovery Communications. FiOS people should be seeing the Discovery Networks in HD "soon," no exact time line though.

many ppl that had comcast and switch to fios and have since switched back. fios is a bit of a flop so far.

Quatre- you have quite a knack for making blanket statements in your posts that are completely unsubstantiated. If you posts are to be considered credible, you need to back them up with real numbers and facts. To your quote above, I also live in Philly and have neither heard or read about "MANY" people switching back to Comcast from FIOS.

As for your recent praising of DirecTV, you have consistently neglected to mention that for any sports fan living in Philly, D* is absolutely 100% NOT AN OPTION as they do not carry the local RSN, Comcast SportsNet Philly. For those of you not located in the region, this means that ~95% of all Phillies, 76ers, and Flyers games would not be available to you as a D* subscriber.... not in HD... not in SD. For those of us sports fans in Philly, of which there are many, D* could offer 500+ HD channels and they still would not be a viable alternative to Comcast or FIOS as they do not carry the one channel that they need to in order to be a true competitor.

Regarding the HD channel offering on FIOS, would I like to see more? Absolutely! However, I'm far from pushing the panic button and switching back to Comcast. The quality of both SD & HD offered by FIOS is top notch - as for quantity, I'm willing to be somewhat patient. I guess that makes me one of the 'minority' FIOS customers that is not running back to Comcast.

It was very well known that D* was going to add all the new HD channels at least 1.5 to 2 years ago. The biggest concern I have about FIOS is that they weren't able to match D*, and being a neophyte TV operation that is almost a fatal flaw.

Mickey mouse management.

How about HDNet & Discovery HD?

DTHHD - 1920x1080 @ ~16.50 Mbps ABR, 18.2 Mbps peak
Hdnet - 1920x1080 @ ~17.65 Mbps ABR, 19.393 Mbps peak

DTHHD - 1920x1080 @ ~16.50 Mbps ABR, 18.2 Mbps peak
Hdnet - 1920x1080 @ ~17.65 Mbps ABR, 19.393 Mbps peak

How did you get this info? and if FIOS is supposed to be passing through HD signals untouched, why aren't these stations at max bitrates?

How did you get this info? and if FIOS is supposed to be passing through HD signals untouched, why aren't these stations at max bitrates?

I'm going to guess his answer will be that the bitrates are as they are received by VZ......:)

thanks for telling me off about the internet services they provide in comparison to one competitor. i exlained i had a rare fast cable modem conecti with comcast for a lower price, the price being the key. i already said that the fios internet services was good. Then you barrade me about why do i need the speed. many ppl have faster connections then 15/2, and id ont have to explain to you why I need it or what type of business i do from home etc.

in fact i never brought up internet in here i dont think, others did to defend verizon fios services.

its as ift hey dotn care about the tv service much and have therefore fallen to the 3rd best choice in my area of 3 main choices.

So you had a "rare fast" (ie: NOT THE NORM) connection so that justifies you being a foot up comcast's a$$? lol. The NORM is that comcast sucks (sorry to break it to you), you just had ONE good experience (or who knows maybe you work for them). You never brought up internet but what's this?

to prove i can say something positive about fios, i will say the internet sevice is half decent. i have 15/2 and its pretty good with stable speeds.

See, when you go running your mouth like a little fanboy you deserve what's coming. You say it's "half decent." That's a load of bs. I would say comcast is borderline "half decent" to not good. Fios internet is very good. Like I said, you can't take your one data point and extrapolate that across their whole service. Ever taken statistics?

Again, comcast doesn't even offer 2Mb upload as the norm, so again, no comparison. You're right you don't have to explain to me what you're doing with the bandwidth, I don't want to know. Point is, if you need the bandwidth, you pay for it. Just because you were getting a higher bandwidth (in exchange for some favors for the cable guy) doesn't make the service better. :D If you had good service, great, but don't go running your mouth that comcast is better than fios.. Just looking at the speed tests on dslreports will clearly tell you otherwise.

Regarding verizon's channel lineup, I bet 99% of their customers could give 2 s**ts whether or not they receive HD channels immediately. Like others have said, verizon's SD channel quality is leaps and bounds better than directv when I switched years ago. They also rolled out local HD and other HD channels long before a friend with directv got them (did I mention he also pays alot more for the same stuff and has had to change boxes/dishes and other nonsense)? Directv is good, I have no problems with their service, I just prefer fios. But, just because verizon doesn't get HD channels immediately is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not having the latest HD channels come out immediately is a-ok.

Regarding verizon's channel lineup, I bet 99% of their customers could give 2 s**ts whether or not they receive HD channels immediately.

HD penetration is a lot higher than 1%. My guess is it's higher still for fios customers compare to the general population. But you think 99% of fios customers don't care about the 150 HD channels the ubiquitous D* commercials are rubbing in their faces? Fanboy, heal thyself.

HD penetration is a lot higher than 1%. My guess is it's higher still for fios customers compare to the general population. But you think 99% of fios customers don't care about the 150 HD channels the ubiquitous D* commercials are rubbing in their faces? Fanboy, heal thyself.

Reading comprehension is your friend, please return back to 5th grade. LOL I said 99% of people could careless if they don't get channels IMMEDIATELY, not HD penetration is 1%. Try reading next time. :D

150 HD channels WHERE?! I had their s**t service for a long time, and a friend got it recently and I STILL have more HD channels than him (last time I was over there). D* is still rubbing the s**t out of their faces since they've been FAR behind the curve. D* said they'd have alot of HD channels years ago, how's that been for ya! ROFL

Like I've said, I'm no fanboy. I simply go with the best overall service.

Reading comprehension is your friend, please return back to 5th grade. LOL I said 99% of people could careless if they don't get channels IMMEDIATELY, not HD penetration is 1%. Try reading next time. :D

150 HD channels WHERE?! I had their s**t service for a long time, and a friend got it recently and I STILL have more HD channels than him (last time I was over there). D* is still rubbing the s**t out of their faces since they've been FAR behind the curve. D* said they'd have alot of HD channels years ago, how's that been for ya! ROFL

Like I've said, I'm no fanboy. I simply go with the best overall service.

wasn't FAN BOY a super hero that used small sharp fans to dice his enemies into little pieces?

Discovery HD isn't on FiOS yet right? You must be talking about "HD Theater"

Oh yeah, got an email from Discovery Communications. FiOS people should be seeing the Discovery Networks in HD "soon," no exact time line though.

I'm still calling it by the name it had since the beginning...hard to get used to its new name. It's encouraging that they said 'soon' for the other Discovery HD channels. However, from what I've read on the D* forums, these are not showing true HD most of the time. Very strange for Discovery to do that. It appears that many of these channels went on line well before they should have since they have an extremely limited HD library.

Reading comprehension is your friend, please return back to 5th grade. LOL I said 99% of people could careless if they don't get channels IMMEDIATELY, not HD penetration is 1%. Try reading next time. :D

150 HD channels WHERE?! I had their s**t service for a long time, and a friend got it recently and I STILL have more HD channels than him (last time I was over there). D* is still rubbing the s**t out of their faces since they've been FAR behind the curve. D* said they'd have alot of HD channels years ago, how's that been for ya! ROFL

Like I've said, I'm no fanboy. I simply go with the best overall service.

check with your friend again there here

Current HD Channels
* = not a simulcast of the SD channel (if available), programming will vary.

Pre-existing MPEG2 Channels
ESPN HD (206/73)
ESPN2 HD (209/72)
(Discovery) HD Theater (76)
HDNet (79)
HDNet Movies (78)
TNT HD (245/75)
Universal HD (74)
CD USA (101)
HBO HD East (70/501/509)
Showtime HD (71/537/543)


MPEG4 RECENT ADDITIONS
Wave I Added 9/26:

A&E HD (265)
Animal Planet HD (282)
Big Ten HD (220)
CNN HD (202)
Discovery HD (278)
History Channel HD (269)
TLC HD (280)
NFL Network HD (212)
Science Channel HD (284)
Smithsonian HD (267)
TBS HD (247)
Versus HD / Golf Channel HD (604)
Weather Channel HD (362)
The Movie Channel HD (544)
SHO Too HD (538)
Showtime HD West (540)
Starz Comedy HD (519)
Starz HD East (520)
Starz HD West (521)
Starz Edge HD (522)
Starz Kids and Family (518)

Wave II Added 10/3 & 10/4:
Bravo (273)
MHD (332)(added 10/4)
SCI FI (244)
USA Network (242)
Cinemax-E (512)
Cinemax-W (514)
HBO-W (504)

Wave III Added 10/10:
CNBC (355)
Food HD* (231-1)
MGM (255)
National Geographic (276)

Regional Sports Networks
Available nationally, but local blackout rules still apply.
Comcast SportsNet Chicago (640)
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic (629)
New England Sports Network (623)
SportsNet New York (625)
YES (622)
Other HD channels
Miscellaneous Events Channel (95)
PPV Events (98)
PPV Movies (99)
NFL Sunday Ticket Superfan (700's)
MLB Extra Innings (700's)

Added 10/5:
NHL Center Ice HD (700's)

Announced HD Additions

October 2007 (source: DirecTV website)
Cartoon Network
FOX Business
Fuel
FX
HGTV*
NBA TV
Speed
Coming by End of 2007 (source: DirecTV website)
Biography
CMT
MTV
Nickelodeon East
Spike
VH1
CSTV
The Tennis Channel
Previously announced as "Fall 2007" (source: Press releases and/or statements made by one or more of a variety of sources)
Chiller
Sleuth
MoreMax
HBO2-E
HBO2-W
HBO Family-E
HBO Family-W
HBO Signature
Previously announced as "Spring 2008" (source: Press releases and/or statements made by one or more of a variety of sources)
ABC Family
Disney Channel
ESPN News
Toon Disney
Channels that showed up in Engineering Mode with no official carriage announcement
NHL Network
Outdoor
Comedy Central

Regional Sports Networks
Available nationally, but local blackout rules still apply.
Fall 2007
Altitude
FSN Arizona
FSN Bay Area
FSN Detroit
FSN Florida
FSN New England
FSN North
FSN Northwest
FSN Ohio
FSN Prime Ticket
FSN Rocky Mountain
FSN South
FSN Southwest
FSN West
SportsSouth
Sun Sports
Channels that showed up in Engineering Mode with no official carriage announcement
FSN Midwest
FSN Houston
FSN New York
FSN Pittsburgh
MSG
FSN Cincinnati
Comcast SportsNet West
MASN/SportsTime Ohio

check with your friend again there here
Current HD Channels
[snipped]
Did you really need to post the whole thing from the 2007 DirecTV HD rollout sticky thread in this same forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=914047? Saying that DirecTV now has 37 HD channels on their new satellite with a link to the thread would have been sufficient, especially all the new HD channels that only have vague start-ups dates. Given the volume of postings on the new D* HD channels here at avsforum, I don't know anyone can have missed the news.

A summary of most of the challenges/business decisions (http://www.onetrak.com/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=2679) that Verizon has made(and noted in this thread) in regards to the HD race

Did you really need to post the whole thing from the 2007 DirecTV HD rollout sticky thread in this same forum: [

We definetly have plenty of trolls and cheerleaders.

To the other poster.. Like I said, there aren't 150 NOW. Planned doesn't mean squadoosh. Fios has had the main HD channels (like locals, which are the most important imo) for a long time. Then comes ESPN, NFL HD, and HGTV/Food for the GF. TNT is also nice during the basketball season. More channels will come in time, and I'm perfectly happy with the ones available now. Like I said, if they're a little behind the curve that's no big deal. They've been ahead of the curve for a while (and they're considerably cheaper) so no complaints here.

We definetly have plenty of trolls and cheerleaders.

To the other poster.. Like I said, there aren't 150 NOW. Planned doesn't mean squadoosh. Fios has had the main HD channels (like locals, which are the most important imo) for a long time. Then comes ESPN, NFL HD, and HGTV/Food for the GF. TNT is also nice during the basketball season. More channels will come in time, and I'm perfectly happy with the ones available now. Like I said, if they're a little behind the curve that's no big deal. They've been ahead of the curve for a while (and they're considerably cheaper) so no complaints here.

hardly, I have Comcast with 25 HD Channels and I am debating whether to switch over to FIOS or D, but since FIOS is stuck with what it has for a while D is looking good although sat tv has its own problems. Yeah I should have posted the link my bad. However that list does show 53 available now + locals so that would be for me 59 HD Channels Now versus 25 for Comcast and 20 something for FIOS, just wanted to point that out.

I agree,my buddy has dtv for years.He's always upgrading his boxes,had to upgrade his dish,signal goes out with bad weather and he waited a couple of years for hd channels. Comcast only stepped up to the plate because of all the competition. So verizon is a little behind, big deal. I'm not going to give up media sharing and clearer channels for more hd channels.I haven't lost a signal from fios internet or tv since I switched over a year ago.Like everybody else, I wish they would just give us some kind release date on future channels.

Quatre- you have quite a knack for making blanket statements in your posts that are completely unsubstantiated. If you posts are to be considered credible, you need to back them up with real numbers and facts. To your quote above, I also live in Philly and have neither heard or read about "MANY" people switching back to Comcast from FIOS.

As for your recent praising of DirecTV, you have consistently neglected to mention that for any sports fan living in Philly, D* is absolutely 100% NOT AN OPTION as they do not carry the local RSN, Comcast SportsNet Philly. For those of you not located in the region, this means that ~95% of all Phillies, 76ers, and Flyers games would not be available to you as a D* subscriber.... not in HD... not in SD. For those of us sports fans in Philly, of which there are many, D* could offer 500+ HD channels and they still would not be a viable alternative to Comcast or FIOS as they do not carry the one channel that they need to in order to be a true competitor.

Regarding the HD channel offering on FIOS, would I like to see more? Absolutely! However, I'm far from pushing the panic button and switching back to Comcast. The quality of both SD & HD offered by FIOS is top notch - as for quantity, I'm willing to be somewhat patient. I guess that makes me one of the 'minority' FIOS customers that is not running back to Comcast.


Everyone keeps saying quality over quantity and ignoring the fact that I have FIOS and Comcast so i can compare both directly in house on my isf pro calibrated 1080p displays. The HD nor SD is any better on FIOS then Comcast and ironically more often the opposite. That was FIOS one redeeming quality the "supposed" better SD quality. It was never worth what you lost from Comcast (like HD on demand) among several other things to get that supposed better SD picture quality.

Talking about sports, how are the MLB playoffs in SD on fios on tbs? Comcast and DTV have TBS-HD.

as far as I know DTV has Comcastsportsnet and every channel that FIOS has plus a lot more in HD, but i'll be keeping my Comcast as well so i wont be missing anything with fios as DTV has HDnet and HDnet movies which is the one hd chan that fios has that comcast doesnt while comcast has a few now that fios doesnt.

the supposed inside scoop from verizon and reported on certain threads is that the wait for certain HD chans that the compeition already has may be 6mo to a year if ever. Ppl claim fios has all this bandwidth and all but the actual facts are they can't add any more HD chans right now.

FIOS was something ppl wanted because it was new and if it want in their area they wanted what they cant have. now that many ppl have gotten it in the Phila area, they see not only is it not better then Comcast, but is in several ways inferior. hence the switch back.

So you had a "rare fast" (ie: NOT THE NORM) connection so that justifies you being a foot up comcast's a$$? lol. The NORM is that comcast sucks (sorry to break it to you), you just had ONE good experience (or who knows maybe you work for them). You never brought up internet but what's this?



See, when you go running your mouth like a little fanboy you deserve what's coming. You say it's "half decent." That's a load of bs. I would say comcast is borderline "half decent" to not good. Fios internet is very good. Like I said, you can't take your one data point and extrapolate that across their whole service. Ever taken statistics?

Again, comcast doesn't even offer 2Mb upload as the norm, so again, no comparison. You're right you don't have to explain to me what you're doing with the bandwidth, I don't want to know. Point is, if you need the bandwidth, you pay for it. Just because you were getting a higher bandwidth (in exchange for some favors for the cable guy) doesn't make the service better. :D If you had good service, great, but don't go running your mouth that comcast is better than fios.. Just looking at the speed tests on dslreports will clearly tell you otherwise.

Regarding verizon's channel lineup, I bet 99% of their customers could give 2 s**ts whether or not they receive HD channels immediately. Like others have said, verizon's SD channel quality is leaps and bounds better than directv when I switched years ago. They also rolled out local HD and other HD channels long before a friend with directv got them (did I mention he also pays alot more for the same stuff and has had to change boxes/dishes and other nonsense)? Directv is good, I have no problems with their service, I just prefer fios. But, just because verizon doesn't get HD channels immediately is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not having the latest HD channels come out immediately is a-ok.

it was someone else who first brought up the internet services of the 2 in attempt to defend fios. I never claimed comcast internet was better or brought it up at all, i hve fios internet and am keeping it along with phone and dtv at a package discount.

but when someone else brought up internet as a way to defend fios, reachign for straws and being a verizon fanboy. you call me a fanboy... of what? whichever service is best? which right now is DTV first and Comcast 2nd. FIOS has fallen to 3rd.

that is the whole point of this thread, "FIOS-Where are the HD channels" it is a place to vent that frustration with fios. You are going to have ppl mention they gave fios enough time , were un satisfied and are jumping ship.

But its also a thread to get news on when fios may eventually catch up, and those ppl are still fios customers and therefore defensive of there laziness to switch and defensive of fios and flame anyone who puts it down even if the topic of the chan is about voicing frustration with fios.

Then at the end you say what everyone says including clueless fios phone reps "Fios sd is better then others" Sorry that isn't true. my comcat sd is better then fios.

so i love how everyone keeps repeating what they've been brainwashed to be believe but never panned out and fios never matched the competition let alone beat them and are only falling more behind. I dont have much confidence in them. I said if they ever get better and beat the competition then i would come back but i really dont see that happening for a long time if ever, so if you have the patience to wait loyaly by fios possibly forever, then more power to you but dont bash others that wasted their time and money with fios and are fedup.

We definetly have plenty of trolls and cheerleaders.

To the other poster.. Like I said, there aren't 150 NOW. Planned doesn't mean squadoosh. Fios has had the main HD channels (like locals, which are the most important imo) for a long time. Then comes ESPN, NFL HD, and HGTV/Food for the GF. TNT is also nice during the basketball season. More channels will come in time, and I'm perfectly happy with the ones available now. Like I said, if they're a little behind the curve that's no big deal. They've been ahead of the curve for a while (and they're considerably cheaper) so no complaints here.

the point he was making by posting the facts of the current channel lineup is that DirecTV whether you like it or not is #1 right now. Were they crap in the past, it sounds like it, and I for one would have never gotten DTV.

You yourself said you go with whichever service is best. Well that changes a lot and right now its DTV and not for some short stint. Its well ahead of Comcast and FIOS now and its not a matter of more HD channels coming soon, they've been adding several new ones at a time in waves and its not a maybe its a definite promise that the rest will all be out by the end of DEC. at which point their price goes up when all the stubborn ppl who didnt' want to believe that dtv could possibly be suddenly #1 is and they wanted to believe that fios would compete but they haven't really from day 1 and real supposed inside info is that its going to be a long while before they add even basic HD chans like USA that comcast h as.

listen its tough with technology chaning so quickly, and the competition is good, one minute one service is best, the next another and you cn't always change so quickly and rather just stick with one that you think will suffice.

And yes while FIOS for a short sting had I believe a couple more hd chans then comcast, it is not the complete opposite and in many ppls eyes including myself, FIOS promised a lot and actually was never even as good as Comcast let alone better and has now fallen to last place.

maybe it seems like jumping the gun to DTV, but its fact, they are clearly making the most improvements the fastest and are the service to beat, plain and simple. no matter how crappy they were once upon a time.

with what they have now let alone what they will have next month and in Dec. many are comfortable that DTV will be the best for a long time as neither Comcast nor FIOS are going to be able to compete with what they are offering for a long time.

When something is better is then DTV , i will switch, but again DTV is on top whether you realized it or not, or choose to believe it or not even when furnished with the facts. So it looks like i wont have to switch tv provider from DTV for a long time.

No Vod!

No Vod!

Fios.... no HD on demand!

DTV- hd vod next month! ..... and prob long before fios gets hd on demand, lol.

the fios defenders reaching for straws.

not sure of the exact definition of a fan boy , but i would think someone who defends an inferior product or service falls in the category while i'm just going with whats better and have the right to be annoyed after having had fios.

Everyone keeps saying quantity over quality

Actually, I stated the reverse - quality over quantity

The HD nor SD is any better on FIOS then Comcast and ironically more often the opposite.

My eyes tell me differently - I frequently have the opportunity to compare the 2, and my eyes tell me that FIOS SD is superior in PQ to Comcast.


That was FIOS one redeeming quality the "supposed" better SD quality.

In your opinion, this was FIOS' one redeeming quality - in my opinion, there are other things that FIOS has and continues to offer that differentiate it from Comcast. For me, superior SD quality is just one of the things that I like about FIOS --- Other features that FIOS offers which are important to me include the multi-room DVR, availability of the HDNet channels, a superior bundled package (internet, phone, tv) in both quality of service and cost, and, as compared with D*, the availbility of my local RSN (Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia) in HD.

It was never worth what you lost from Comcast (like HD on demand) among several other things...

It is both ignorant and irresponsible for you to state what "I" lost when I swithed from Comcast - speak for yourself. For me, I had Comcast for many years prior to switching over to FIOS TV - HD OnDemand is not a feature that I ever used with Comcast and I do not miss it one bit. If it's important to you, great - but I could care less.

Talking about sports, how are the MLB playoffs in SD on fios on tbs?

It sucks - but I blame this issue as much on MLB as I do on FIOS. I am confident that this will be the only year that I will have to deal with SD playoff baseball - I'd be surprised if TBS-HD is not offered by Vz by the 2008 playoffs. Outside of the MLB playoffs, I really could care less about TBS-HD.

As far as I know DTV has Comcastsportsnet

First let me clarify that we are speaking about Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia - with that said, you are absolutely incorrect. D* has never been able to obtain the rights from Comcast to add this channel to their lineup. See the Wikipedia entry under 'controversies' here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast

With that cleared up, it amazes me that you could make such a big deal about TBS-HD being available for the ~10-13 MLB Playoff games that will be broadcast while you totally ignore the fact that a D* subscriber will miss out on ~140 Phillies games, ~75 76ers games, and ~70 Flyers games in both SD AND HD. As I wrote previously, if you are a Philadelphia sports fan living in the region, D* is not an option no matter how many 'other' HD channels they offer.

The supposed inside scoop from verizon and reported on certain threads is that the wait for certain HD chans that the compeition already has may be 6mo to a year if ever. Are you serious - if ever? That's just a flat out dumb statement.

Ppl claim fios has all this bandwidth and all but the actual facts are they can't add any more HD chans right now. Actually, the fact is that A&E HD will be added any day as channel 842 - this is per the scroll bar on the weatherscan channel (ch. 49 for me). Not that I care, because like most of the other HD channels currently being added by D* and Comcast, there is VERY, VERY little HD programming currently available on this channel. IMHO, an HD channel is only valuable if it offers HD programming - and even then, only valuable if I care to watch such HD content.

FIOS was something ppl wanted because it was new and if it want in their area they wanted what they cant have. now that many ppl have gotten it in the Phila area, they see not only is it not better then Comcast, but is in several ways inferior. hence the switch back.Once again, you make a blanket statement without any facts to back it up. Also, once again, you speak in the third person - YOU made a determination that FIOS is inferior to Comcast and YOU decided to switch back. Until you produce figures showing that "many ppl," as you quote, are coming to the same realization as you and are switching back to Comcast, let it go! Speak for yourself - your generalizations without facts remove the credibility from your posts. You are entilted to your own opinion - feel free to state it as your own ---- but nobody elected you king to speak for the masses. Until you produce facts, stop making blanket statements on what others are doing/not-doing.

dtv and comcast ftw!

Fios.... no HD on demand!

DTV- hd vod next month! ..... and prob long before fios gets hd on demand, lol.




not quite true- FiOS has HD VOD in testing(at least in my area). in fact I noticed tonite there were additional programs added.

as another sub in Hampton Roads, VA pointed out HD VOD apparently steals bandwidth from internet. in fact no HD VOD program is longer than 50 min.

but it looks like Vz is working on it.

No offense, but some of you guys are really old, and your eye sight might not be that good anymore. Well I'm young and have very good eye sight, and I'll definitely stand with the group that says the SD channels are much better on Fios, and the HD channels are a bit better too. I've watched enough HD to pull bitrates out my ass, so I'll say Fios is 15-18Mbps, and Comcast is 12-15 Mbps.

But really, all these visual opinions are hearsay. The only way to truly confirm SD and HD is better on Fios is to record the exact same program on both Comcast and Fios to PC, and compare bitrates and exact frames, like Xylon did with DTV vs Dish.

hardly, I have Comcast with 25 HD Channels and I am debating whether to switch over to FIOS or D, but since FIOS is stuck with what it has for a while D is looking good although sat tv has its own problems. Yeah I should have posted the link my bad. However that list does show 53 available now + locals so that would be for me 59 HD Channels Now versus 25 for Comcast and 20 something for FIOS, just wanted to point that out.

I don't know where you live, but here is a breakdown which may help.

I had D* for 7 years and now I have fios. I really like both, but here are my advantages and disadvantages of each:

D* advantage: Great CS, many HD channels, I have few outages, decent HD PQ, good price packages for new subscribers.

D* disadvantage: No RSN (here in Philadelphia), lousy SD channels ( PQ, that is...over compressed), no vod or HD vod and LIMITED ppv movies, lousy and SLOW equipment/guides.

FIOS advantages: VOD, Rsn (mains reason I switched...local sports), excellent sd pq (best I've seen yet), excellent HD quality, decent cs, many ppv movies, no outages (only 2 months of sevice though).

Fios disadvantages: lack of HD channels and verison's STUPID policy of keeping you in the dark about future HD additions. No hd vod. A bit more pricey.

To me, if Verizon gave news of 20 new HD channels coming soon or if FIOS had more HD it would be a "no brainer" to me that verizon would be the company to stay with...or go with. however, i have 8 months to decide (D* account is suspended while I check out FIOS).

The HD nor SD is any better on FIOS then Comcast and ironically more often the opposite.

FIOS was something ppl wanted because it was new and if it want in their area they wanted what they cant have. now that many ppl have gotten it in the Phila area, they see not only is it not better then Comcast, but is in several ways inferior. hence the switch back.

I'll play straight man Quatre, which HD channels have better PQ on Comcast as opposed to FIOS.

Also, you have been asked to back up your statement regarding all these people that are switching back in the Phila area, but as of yet you've provided nothing.

not sure of the exact definition of a fan boy , but i would think someone who defends an inferior product or service falls in the category while i'm just going with whats better and have the right to be annoyed after having had fios.

Are you completely ignoring the PRICE or do you just have more $ than sense? I said it's best FOR THE PRICE, hands down. And I never said fios was better than comcast SD (although I haven't compared the two), but it's leaps and bounds better than D* crappy SD. Like I said, which you've ignored, FIOS is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than D*, or ANY other cable provider (if you have an employee discount or any special discount that doesn't count). A friend switched last yr from D* to fios, got ALL the same channels, and paid close to $50 less PER MONTH. My verizon bill is something ~$130/month for internet/tv/phone. That's with 2 dvrs and an SD box. Please let me know which service is even comparable to that.

I am in Philly and have a display calibrated by Greg Loewen and Quatre is way off base on PQ. I am not happy with the lack of new HD but as far as quality, there is no comparison. Quatre was bitching about FiOS in the PHilly thread from day one. I know several people at Comcast and not one has disagreed that the PQ on FiOS was better. The difference with CSN-HD was astounding and what's more, the people at CSN have acknowledged it to me as well as people at KYW in Philly, the CBS affilliate who have switched to FiOS. Give me a break Quatre.

DTV is on top whether you realized it or not, or choose to believe it or not even when furnished with the facts. So it looks like i wont have to switch tv provider from DTV for a long time.

On top for you is not the same as everyone else. lol Just because they have the most HD channels does NOT make them the best service, like I said before. J6P is VERY concerned about PRICE (and D* is considerably more expensive). Like I've said before D* has their issues. Crappy SD, higher prices (than fios), and all that damn hardware and crap you need to get, AND you need two coax cables for each damn dvr box. Perhaps the last one isn't too big a deal, but if your home is already nicely wired with coax cables in each room, the installers clearly won't do as nice of a job running that second coax cable.

Like I said before, for J6P, the price/performance of fios is unbeatable. Most people don't like playing "musical service provider." I sure don't. I can only see a handful of HD channels that are worth having that fios doesn't have already. If you deem that being worth it fine, but don't state your opinion as the majority opinion, and blindly believe D* is clearly the best.

I am in Philly and have a display calibrated by Greg Loewen and Quatre is way off base on PQ. I am not happy with the lack of new HD but as far as quality, there is no comparison. Quatre was bitching about FiOS in the PHilly thread from day one. I know several people at Comcast and not one has disagreed that the PQ on FiOS was better. The difference with CSN-HD was astounding and what's more, the people at CSN have acknowledged it to me as well as people at KYW in Philly, the CBS affilliate who have switched to FiOS. Give me a break Quatre.

Thanks for the confirmation JWhip. There is little veracity to Quatre's comments and I think we can all see that now. ;)

Are you completely ignoring the PRICE or do you just have more $ than sense? I said it's best FOR THE PRICE, hands down. And I never said fios was better than comcast SD (although I haven't compared the two), but it's leaps and bounds better than D* crappy SD. Like I said, which you've ignored, FIOS is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than D*, or ANY other cable provider (if you have an employee discount or any special discount that doesn't count). A friend switched last yr from D* to fios, got ALL the same channels, and paid close to $50 less PER MONTH. My verizon bill is something ~$130/month for internet/tv/phone. That's with 2 dvrs and an SD box. Please let me know which service is even comparable to that.

If I could get your deal, it'd be no brainer for me to stay with fios. But I pay $167 for basically same thing you have -- ~$85 for phone+internet and ~$80 for TV (1 DVR+1 $15 premium channel). And now they want me to sign up for 1 year or they'll increase my TV by $5. Totally sucks.

Where are you?

If I could get your deal, it'd be no brainer for me to stay with fios. But I pay $167 for basically same thing you have -- ~$85 for phone+internet and ~$80 for TV (1 DVR+1 $15 premium channel). And now they want me to sign up for 1 year or they'll increase my TV by $5. Totally sucks.

Where are you?

I'm in Northern VA. Well, I just checked my bill and it's actuall $136. That sounds about right, maybe you signed up for the 15/2 internet service? I have the 5/2 service (which is plenty for most people), and have no premium channels. I pay $40 for internet, $70 for tv, and the rest for phone.

Like I commented before.. the fios service is great, but their customer service is HORRIBLE. Moving was a big pita switching the service over, and I'll leave it at that. Their whole customer "back end" schema must be horrible because I remember having to call and talk to different departments for the different service. My option was either Fios/comcast when I moved (I'm excluding DTV for the reasons I provided above). Comcast wanted a whole helluva lot more for their service (I think something ridiculous like $55 STARTING just for digital cable?!) so I said screw it, bit my lip, and stuck with FIOS. So, I definetly feel you pain when it comes to dealing with their "customer service." That's one thing that D* is/was pretty good about.

Interesting thread, although I'm sorry to be entertained by your pain! Who would have thought the medium with such incredible potential, like fiber, would wind up being used the way it is? Like someone selling you a Lamborghini and then deciding to not sell you gasoline for financial reasons.

I'm in Northern VA. Well, I just checked my bill and it's actuall $136. That sounds about right, maybe you signed up for the 15/2 internet service? I have the 5/2 service (which is plenty for most people), and have no premium channels. I pay $40 for internet, $70 for tv, and the rest for phone.

nope, 5/2 internet. South CA. I've called 4-5 times now. No dice.

Unlike D*, they don't seem to have a retention center. I have a feeling if I threaten to drop them they'll say "we're sorry to hear that. have a nice day"

Dropping them for D* isn't an attractive option either. I'll pay about same if not more, and I'll probably have to sign 1 or 2yr contract for the hr20 and new dish (I'm an old D* customer). bummer.

Sorry to get things back on topic, but according to ch 49 here in Tampa, A&E HD will be added soon at channel 842.

Too bad as it carries almost no HD. With the NL playoffs all but over, TBS-HD is no longer a priority for me as they also have little HD other than baseball.

Sorry to get things back on topic, but according to ch 49 here in Tampa, A&E HD will be added soon at channel 842.
Yes, back on topic! Maybe we can get a break from the ramblings postings by Quatre. The scrolling information on the Weather Scan channel says that Fox Business Channel is coming to channel 94 and A&E-HD to ch 842. So, we may not be getting the core new HD channels we really want, but Verizon will be at least providing one more national HD channel soon. Hope we get at least several more useful HD channels added with this upgrade round, but Fios simply is not ready to announce them in advance.

The bright side of getting A&E-HD is now we Fios subscribers can see the channel for themselves and complain about the lack of much HD on it. :D There is a half full / half empty thing with the HD channels that are a simulcast of the main SD channel (or is it 1/5 full, 4/5ths empty?). I see people posting complaints that there is hardly ever any HD on TNT-HD, but TNT-HD despite it's use of the stretch-o-vision from hell, is somewhere around 50% to 75% true HD these days. So I will curious to see what the HD percentage really is with A&E-HD, although I don't expect it to be very good.

Further name calling or off topic comments will result in suspensions.

Play nice or else.

Hope we get at least several more useful HD channels added with this upgrade round, but Fios simply is not ready to announce them in advance.

In advanced nothing, I don't think the PR people even know what's going on. In fact was just talking to them yesterday and they said they had nothing to announce and then this pops up on ch49. What a joke, I emailed them back to ask if they didn't tell me on purpose (very nicely of course) and that in the future I'd love to help them notify their subscribers.

Woke up this AM...to my surprise I now have A&E HD.

Yep, complete with a stretched show. I'd say I wished they added a different channel, but having access to all the new HD channels via DirecTV, I'd say that none of them are that great. For selfish reasons I'd prefer to have History HD (also with alot of stretched content).

can somebody start a poll? if you can only have 5 HD channels added, which would you want?

My choices would be: fx (now!!! nip/tuck is coming back), sci-fi, discovery, animal planet, maybe smithsonian?

I don't know where you live, but here is a breakdown which may help.

I had D* for 7 years and now I have fios. I really like both, but here are my advantages and disadvantages of each:

D* advantage: Great CS, many HD channels, I have few outages, decent HD PQ, good price packages for new subscribers.

D* disadvantage: No RSN (here in Philadelphia), lousy SD channels ( PQ, that is...over compressed), no vod or HD vod and LIMITED ppv movies, lousy and SLOW equipment/guides.

FIOS advantages: VOD, Rsn (mains reason I switched...local sports), excellent sd pq (best I've seen yet), excellent HD quality, decent cs, many ppv movies, no outages (only 2 months of sevice though).

Fios disadvantages: lack of HD channels and verison's STUPID policy of keeping you in the dark about future HD additions. No hd vod. A bit more pricey.

To me, if Verizon gave news of 20 new HD channels coming soon or if FIOS had more HD it would be a "no brainer" to me that verizon would be the company to stay with...or go with. however, i have 8 months to decide (D* account is suspended while I check out FIOS).

cool, thanks for the breakdown, for the record I am in Northern VA.

can somebody start a poll? if you can only have 5 HD channels added, which would you want?

My choices would be: fx (now!!! nip/tuck is coming back), sci-fi, discovery, animal planet, maybe smithsonian?

I want:

TBS, Nickelodeon, Discovery channel, GMC and Comedy channel.

Fios disadvantages: ... A bit more pricey.

How do you figure that? My existing setup (more than four TVs) would cost a small fortune on D*. My understanding has always been that, with the triple play, Verizon is easily the cheapest option out there (depending on the number of STBs you had in your pre- and post- Verizon setups).

How do you figure that? My existing setup (more than four TVs) would cost a small fortune on D*. My understanding has always been that, with the triple play, Verizon is easily the cheapest option out there (depending on the number of STBs you had in your pre- and post- Verizon setups).

+1.

When I priced out D* last month it was going to be more expensive per month for programming, and I would have had to pay $500 up front for equiptment. I would love all those HDs but not that much.

can somebody start a poll? if you can only have 5 HD channels added, which would you want?
Ok, why not?

Verizon FIOS HD channels we want to see vote

Verizon Fios currently has the following national HD channels (as of Oct. 15, 2007):
National (15 channels): TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, NFL, HDNet, HDNet Movies, UniversalHD, Discovery HD Theater, Wealth, Nat Geographic, MHD, Food, HGTV, A&E, Lifetime Movie Network.
Premium channels: HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, TMC, Starz.

Side note: Verizon now has a total of 15 national HD channels that are available at no extra charge beyond the HD STB/DVR or with a cable card and long has had the primary channel for all 5 of the premium movie nets. Until very recently, this was ahead of D* and most cable systems, so keep this in mind before people start put up more Fios bashing posts.

The list below is of the national HD channels that are now available which are not on Fios. I’m ignoring the RSNs and the west coast feeds of the premium movie channels in the list. If there is an active national HD channel not on this list, please point that out.

Animal Planet HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
Big Ten HD
Bravo HD
Cartoon Network HD
CNBC HD [all upconverted SD video combined with HD graphics on the 16x9 screen]
CNN HD
Discovery HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
Fox Business Network HD
Fuel HD
FX HD
History Channel HD
MGM
MOJO
Outdoor Channel 2 HD? (never been clear on the status of this channel)
Sci-Fi HD
Science Channel HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
ShowTime Too HD
Smithsonian HD
Speed HD
Starz Comedy HD
Starz Edge HD
Starz Kids and Family
TBS HD
TLC HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
USA HD
Versus / Golf Channel HD
Weather Channel HD
The 15 Voom channels which are only on Dish and Cablevision

There are a number of other channels listed on the DirecTV HD list as starting up in the fall and winter but most don’t have firm start-up dates so DirecTV may now be slowing down on adding more waves. Higher profile HD channels on the upcoming list: ABC Family, Biography, Disney Channel, MTV, Nickelodeon, HBO2, HBO Family, HBO Signature. But until these exist or have firm start-up dates, we can’t expect Fios to add them so don't include them in the votes.

No idea which of these, if any, Verizon is planning to add in the near future, but if we can get enough votes, we can always email the list of the top vote getters to Verizon for them to use as they will. So how about the 5 channels you most want to see in no particular order? I’m going to add up the total votes and update this post from time to time (or maybe in a new Verizon vote thread). If you list 6 channels, I am going to take the first 5. We should also ignore the 15 Voom channels because those are just not going to happen on Fios anytime soon.

Votes totals: ??

PS. If you reply to this, please don't quote the whole post in your reply. :eek:

How do you figure that? My existing setup (more than four TVs) would cost a small fortune on D*. My understanding has always been that, with the triple play, Verizon is easily the cheapest option out there (depending on the number of STBs you had in your pre- and post- Verizon setups).

Well let's put it this way. I had:

DSL: $15.99
Phone:$28.99
D* w HD and $20 month credit with 2 HD receivers, locals, etc:$48.99

D*$94 (verizon all in one bill)

Fios triple play:$95 plus HD receiver $9.99 and HD Dvr $12.99

Fios:$118

Granite, FIOS is a heck of alot faster than DSL but I could live with 768K.

I just created 3 polls with the info you listed.

Ok, why not?

Verizon FIOS HD channels we want to see vote

Verizon Fios currently has the following national HD channels (as of Oct. 15, 2007):
National (15 channels): TNT, ESPN, ESPN2, NFL, HDNet, HDNet Movies, UniversalHD, Discovery HD Theater, Wealth, Nat Geographic, MHD, Food, HGTV, A&E, Lifetime Movie Network.
Premium channels: HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, TMC, Starz.

Side note: Verizon now has a total of 15 national HD channels that are available at no extra charge beyond the HD STB/DVR or with a cable card and long has had the primary channel for all 5 of the premium movie nets. Until very recently, this was ahead of D* and most cable systems, so keep this in mind before people start put up more Fios bashing posts.

The list below is of the national HD channels that are now available which are not on Fios. I’m ignoring the RSNs and the west coast feeds of the premium movie channels in the list. If there is an active national HD channel not on this list, please point that out.

Animal Planet HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
Big Ten HD
Bravo HD
Cartoon Network HD
CNBC HD [all upconverted SD video combined with HD graphics on the 16x9 screen]
CNN HD
Discovery HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
Fox Business Network HD
Fuel HD
FX HD
History Channel HD
MGM
MOJO
Outdoor Channel 2 HD? (never been clear on the status of this channel)
Sci-Fi HD
Science Channel HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
ShowTime Too HD
Smithsonian HD
Speed HD
Starz Comedy HD
Starz Edge HD
Starz Kids and Family
TBS HD
TLC HD (Part of the Discovery channel HD group)
USA HD
Versus / Golf Channel HD
Weather Channel HD
The 15 Voom channels which are only on Dish and Cablevision

There are a number of other channels listed on the DirecTV HD list as starting up in the fall and winter but most don’t have firm start-up dates so DirecTV may now be slowing down on adding more waves. Higher profile HD channels on the upcoming list: ABC Family, Biography, Disney Channel, MTV, Nickelodeon, HBO2, HBO Family, HBO Signature. But until these exist or have firm start-up dates, we can’t expect Fios to add them so don't include them in the votes.

No idea which of these, if any, Verizon is planning to add in the near future, but if we can get enough votes, we can always email the list of the top vote getters to Verizon for them to use as they will. So how about the 5 channels you most want to see in no particular order? I’m going to add up the total votes and update this post from time to time (or maybe in a new Verizon vote thread). If you list 6 channels, I am going to take the first 5. We should also ignore the 15 Voom channels because those are just not going to happen on Fios anytime soon.

Votes totals: ??

PS. If you reply to this, please don't quote the whole post in your reply. :eek:

We have FiOS Internet + Phone for $65, and we pay an additional $80 for Time Warner Cable with access to approximately 25 free HD channels.

We are waiting for FiOS TV to be made available in New York City in order to get Verizon's triple play (or possibly even quad-play) package. For the simple reason that Time Warner costs too damn much, and we're looking to save some coin by going triple-play with Verizon. The picture quality, HD offerings and IMG are bonuses.

Having said that, reports of the IMG being buggy are giving me pause. And the comparative lack of HD in the near future is a factor, albeit a relatively small one. We might have to investigate going with DirecTV, possibly as part of Verizon's "other" triple play plan.

Besides that, it seems clear to me that while Verizon will lack HD in the short term, once they go all digital in February 2009, and beyond that when they move to IPTV by 2010, they will be able to far outstrip any other provider on the HD front.

We have FiOS Internet + Phone for $65, and we pay an additional $80 for Time Warner Cable with access to approximately 25 free HD channels.

We are waiting for FiOS TV to be made available in New York City in order to get Verizon's triple play (or possibly even quad-play) package. For the simple reason that Time Warner costs too damn much, and we're looking to save some coin by going triple-play with Verizon. The picture quality, HD offerings and IMG are bonuses.

Having said that, reports of the IMG being buggy are giving me pause. And the comparative lack of HD in the near future is a factor, albeit a relatively small one. We might have to investigate going with DirecTV, possibly as part of Verizon's "other" triple play plan.

Besides that, it seems clear to me that while Verizon will lack HD in the short term, once they go all digital in February 2009, and beyond that when they move to IPTV by 2010, they will be able to far outstrip any other provider on the HD front.

The savings also played a significant part in my switching over to FIOS. I've had the new IMG since August (Mass.) and have to say that although it has had some issues, they are not the type that shut your TV viewing down. The only problems I've had with them is that about three times since the IMG download, the system has rebooted or I've had to power it down and bring it back up. While that is not optimal, it is about what I had to do with my D* boxes when I had them (and I returned several of those). So although annoying, I haven't seen a problem that stops me from watching for extended period of times.

As far as the HD offerings, I am fine with what I have. I watch a lot of sports, and I have a full range of HD for those. The only hiccup was the TBS flap for the baseball playoffs, but those are now back on Fox, so HD again. The last I heard is that FIOS without modification can add about 20 more HD channels (described in: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590208&page=157 ). Once the analog channels are dumped (in Q2 2008?) a lot more capacity will be available. The HD channels from FIOS are uncompressed, as good as OTA, unlike a lot of the original D* HD channels (ex: ESPN, ESPN2).

You also need to gauge whether the new HD channels that come along have HD programming. My favorite, HDNET is all HD, watching soccer on it is a thing of beauty. My wife's favorite, HGTV has an HD version that is gorgeous. Many of the HD channels being brought in have a widely differing percentage of HD vs. SD content, so just providing an HD channel (on FIOS or D*, etc) doesn't mean all content is HD.

Lastlly, the service for me has been excellent. I just placed a call two days ago for a tech to resolve a problem with my mother-in-law's DVR. He came in the next day, in the morning. It was pilot error on her part, but the promptness was pretty impressive.

Lastlly, the service for me has been excellent. I just placed a call two days ago for a tech to resolve a problem with my mother-in-law's DVR. He came in the next day, in the morning. It was pilot error on her part, but the promptness was pretty impressive.
I have to agree. We've had only one problem with our FiOS service, but Verizon responded to it in a courteous, professional and speedy manner. Unlike Time Warner, who I've had to complain to the City about to get a resolution to our current problems (and they still aren't being resolved.)

Speaking of service, when I was away on a business trip our modem failed. FIOS were there within 4 hours of the call with a new router according to my wife!

Since some of you all are comparing prices i pay $114.98 including ALL taxes which includes the HD DVR and an addional STB in the bedroom i almost never use and i get all the channels Verizon has to offer. I share this because if you are paying more, you dont have to and with the delay in adding the addional HD channels D** is offering why pay more then you have to?

It also includes 5 mbs internet and telephone with free long distance of course.

This price has been negatiated due to the terrible billing practices of Verizon and outright lies told to me by CS.

Compare that to what the same TV service alone would cost you from ANY of the other providers. So if it takes Verizon a little longer to catch up on HD channels its Ok by me.

I have a second Gen. 6416-2 HD DVR and standard def looks even better then it did before i got the new box. My price is locked for 2 years regardless of upgrades so i know i wont be charged more for more. You cant say that with any other provider out there.

My 5 HD channel choices would be.

Animal Planet
History
SciFi
Weather
USA
Stetched or not!

I live in MA.

I want:

TBS

No, you really don't. See the TBS HD thread. Unless you really like seeing The Office at 16:9, presented in stretched 4:3 and everything else in 4:3 stretch.

If anybody can tell you what HD channels might be coming soon it'll be these people: http://www.verizonnj.com/about/community/nj/about/exaffairs/external_affairs.asp

That link applies to NJ only, but if you search around on Google you will find your external affairs rep as well. The rep for Middlesex/Union County (Mark) told me how FiOS is planned for my township in late 2007 but more likely early 2008.

A summary of most of the challenges/business decisions (http://www.onetrak.com/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=2679) that Verizon has made(and noted in this thread) in regards to the HD raceConsidering that VZ FiOS is so new, their TV boxes should have been all-MPEG-4/H.264-compatible from the start. Then they wouldn't have to worry about switching consumer boxes with a switchover to MPEG-4. They might have had poor first-gen MPEG-4 encoders, or they could have sprung for better (and more plentiful/good-valued) MPEG-2 encoders in the interim, but either way, they'd be covered longer-term. MPEG-4's the future, even for FiOS, as the fiber network in the future will be taxed by heavier Internet usage, cable-style. Penny wise.....

According to FIOS their future is IPTV. They plan on switching to it within 3 years.

No, you really don't. See the TBS HD thread. Unless you really like seeing The Office at 16:9, presented in stretched 4:3 and everything else in 4:3 stretch.

I always wonder why they do that. The office is in HD so why not simply show it in HD? Is there some sort of agreement or restriction? Because it makes no sense....

as the fiber network in the future will be taxed by heavier Internet usage, cable-style. Penny wise.....

The only thing that limits the bandwidth of the fiber network is the capability of the receiving and transmitting equipment. Currently, verizon uses BPON which lets them share out 622Mbps downstream to 32 customers. But they are in the process of deploying GPON, which will up that to 2.4Gbps over the same wires. From a customer standpoint, the upgrade will require replacing the ONT on the side of one's house, but that's something VZ could do in ten minutes while you're at work since they won't have to come into your home. And you get a fourfold increase in bandwidth.

Also, once IPTV is deployed, which will be in the next three years or so, downstream bandwidth will cease to be an issue the way it is now. I'm sure Verizon thought "why make all these crazy investments in MPEG 4 et al. when we're just going to chuck them out and replace them with IPTV boxes in three years?"

I always wonder why they do that. The office is in HD so why not simply show it in HD? Is there some sort of agreement or restriction? Because it makes no sense....
Apparently, broadcasting live events in HD, showing movies in HD and showing syndicated TV shows in HD require three completely different sets of HD processing equipment. Maybe they made just enough investment to do the MLB playoffs in HD (they rented an HD production truck or something) without upgrading the rest of the network to support HD.

Which makes sense, because I for one haven't heard anything about TBS upgrading its facilities to support HD production or broadcasting. Other networks have made a big deal about the upgrades they made to do HD, for example ESPN crowed about its all-new "Digital Center" with all tapeless HD equipment.

Apparently, broadcasting live events in HD, showing movies in HD and showing syndicated TV shows in HD require three completely different sets of HD processing equipment. Maybe they made just enough investment to do the MLB playoffs in HD (they rented an HD production truck or something) without upgrading the rest of the network to support HD.

Which makes sense, because I for one haven't heard anything about TBS upgrading its facilities to support HD production or broadcasting. Other networks have made a big deal about the upgrades they made to do HD, for example ESPN crowed about its all-new "Digital Center" with all tapeless HD equipment.

Thanks...that makes sense...well, sort of.:)

Now, what are/is IPTV. I'm new to this cable thing after coming from D* for 7 years.
Never mind...is this it?

http://www.iptvnews.net/

Looks like a way to save on bandwidth by only sending a signal or program when requested.....very smart. let's hope it's instant, though. I wonder if you'll have channel guides and all that? The possibilities could be endless.

only one show, but I have it here in richmond. anyone else?

Thanks...that makes sense...well, sort of.:)

Now, what are/is IPTV. I'm new to this cable thing after coming from D* for 7 years.
Never mind...is this it?

http://www.iptvnews.net/

Looks like a way to save on bandwidth by only sending a signal or program when requested.....very smart. let's hope it's instant, though. I wonder if you'll have channel guides and all that? The possibilities could be endless.
Yeah, IPTV only sends a channel when it is requested by a subscriber. This allows the provider to have "unlimited" channel capacity - the only limit is the number of servers they have to ingest video streams into the system. If they want to carry 100 more HD channels tomorrow, they'd merely have to bring a new server farm online to process all the new incoming video and make it available for customers to access.

On the customer side, the only limitation with IPTV is how many video streams can be sent to a single customer simultaneously, which is a function of available downstream bandwidth and bandwidth requirements for each video stream.

For example, AT&T U-Verse (which is an IPTV system running over AT&T's Fiber-to-the-Neighborhood network) only allows customers to view a single HD channel or 4 SD channels at any given time. Its customers can rent only 1 HD box, no matter how many HDTVs they may have.

Once Verizon completes its GPON upgrades, each customer will theoretically have around 70Mbps of available downstream bandwidth. Carve out about 20-30Mbps for voice and data, and you're left with over 40Mbps for video, more than enough for up to 4 HD streams using modern codecs.

Verizon used to use Microsoft Mediaroom technology to deliver its TV programming (using standard QAM.) One of the selling points of Mediaroom IPTV is instant channel changes. But I heard they dropped Mediaroom a while ago, and it remains to be seen if they go back to it for their IPTV rollout.

a bit OT but to expand on the IPTV subject:

locally we have another true IPTV service-Cavtel(Cavalier Telephone). IP-based, MPEG 4 codec. the bad news-it's a DSL platform. it states on their website that you must be within 10,000 line-ft. of one their CO's to even get TV service, & they discourage using any VOIP service with TV.

props to them, however, for getting as much out of DSL as they have. they even have the bandwidth for HD, albeit only about a third the chs as FiOS.

only one show, but I have it here in richmond. anyone else?

yeah!!! got it here in Hampton Roads, VA.

as a bonus it's one of my favorite History Ch shows!!(Dogfights).

FiOS added A&E HD programs to the HD VOD just before they added the actual ch. so maybe....

it's been posted as a RUMOR!!! that FiOS could be adding the Discovery HD tier as early as a week from today(10/26). maybe there's room for 5 new HD chs?

A&E and History Channel share the same owner, so it is likely Verizon negotiated for both of those channels at the same time. I don't have any information on History-HD availabilility.

Hey! Ho! Great news for you customers!!

All 4 Discovery Networks are going to be added on 10/26. This according to a thread over at BBR: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19266945-New-HD-channels

Verizon is relatively unique among cable systems in their design.

They have two SuperHeadEnds (SPEs), one for redundancy. These SPEs aggregate all digital cable content using fiber, dozens of big ugly dishes (BUDs), and a warehouse full of receivers, SD MPEG-2 encoders, and commercial insertion equipment.

The SPEs send the MPEG-2 video via SONET to video hubs (VHOs) in each region. I don't know the current count, but I believe there are now somewhere between 7 and 13 VHOs. The VHOs modulate the MPEG-2 channels from the SPEs into RF (QAM) for delivery to the home. A section of RF (QAM) spectrum is reserved for locals. The VHOs receive the local networks from broadcast affiliates in the region (typically via fiber) and modulate them onto the reserved QAM channels. The combined QAM signal is sent via fiber to each Verizon central office in the region with guide data.

Your local office receives that modulated QAM video from the VHO and combines it with voice and high-speed data. From there is sent to your home via fiber.

Verizon has 135 6MHz channels available between the CO and your home. The problem, as I alluded to above, is that the VHOs and COs evidently have the hardware to support only 103 of those 135 channels today. Depending on the VHO, anywhere from 54 to 63 of those channels is allocated to QAM, with the rest allocated to analog. The oldest VHOs may have 54 slots available for QAM while newer VHOs may have 63.

More comprehensive upgrades are apparently required to upgrade the VHOs and COs to use the remaining 32 channels, so for now, Verizon is working to eliminate the analog channels. It's not a matter of just switching off an analog channel and switching on a QAM channel because both use separate equipment at the VHO and CO; hence, new equipment must be installed in every VHO and CO.

Each QAM slot provides a minimum of 38.8 Mbps usable. Verizon currently allocates 7-9 SD channels per QAM and 2 HD channels per QAM. The average FiOS system probably uses 52-53 QAM slots today.

Verizon's first step may be to make all VHOs and COs capable of using 63 QAM slots, because the newer VHOs are already capable of that. Verizon rolls out channels nationally, not regionally, so some in newer FiOS markets are probably stuck waiting for older markets to upgrade their equipment.

Updated Friday, October 19

Verizon responded to this post on Engadget with, Ben, there is no "technological limitation” in our video hubs and central offices. In our fiber system it is just a matter of adding new equipment to increase capacity. That's certainly true.

The problem is that the equipment upgrades necessary require many months of work. In some cases, building upgrades are required because Verizon didn't include storage space for that equipment in their plans. Verizon is relying on contractors outside the company to perform many of these upgrades, which slows the process. It is possible some timetables have changed recently, but as of three months ago, Verizon engineering did not expect to have the capacity necessary to add most of the new DirecTV HD channels for another year (i.e. 4Q 2008). This information was supplied by employees working in the FiOS TV engineering department under Frank B.

There is now talk that Verizon will eliminate the analog channels by June or July, which would free up capacity for about 80 new HD channels. Whether management will authorize the resources necessary to make this happen is unknown.

A different FIOS engineer contacted me and explained that there are problems at the CO that are simply a matter of cost. I haven't had time to completly understand what he told me, but I'll paraphrase it here till I have time to research it.

Basically he says it's a limitation in the PON cards in the OLT and that they need to be upgraded from an oc card to an oc3. He explains that customers have to share these cards.

Again, I don't really understand what he is saying here, but I'm working on it.

This seems to sync with what Matt Stomp says on OneTRAK.http://www.onetrak.com/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=2679&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1


Verizon would have no capacity problems shipping the extra HD channels from the national headends through to the regional service offices to local central offices. The issue is the QAMs in the central office.

Verizon would need an additional 24 QAMs on top of the 30 it currently has at each central office to handle another 48 HD channels. Figure $1,000 as a ballpark cost for a QAM today. Adding another 24 QAMs at any central serving office would cost $24,000.

Hey! Ho! Great news for you customers!!

All 4 Discovery Networks are going to be added on 10/26. This according to a thread over at BBR: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19266945-New-HD-channels

Not sure I buy this, but if true (and hopefully it is), that pretty much makes you wonder about many other posts to the contrary. The post right above mine tries to explain all the reasons why there won't be much new HD.

This is kind of reminding me of the days when I had D* and everyone had their own rumors from some 'inside source' about all the new HD that was coming. Of course it never did until just a few weeks ago. It got to the point where it almost became comical. I'm rapidly getting to the same point here...new rumors every day that run contrary to the rumors of 24 hours ago. :confused:

Not sure I buy this, but if true (and hopefully it is), that pretty much makes you wonder about many other posts to the contrary. The post right above mine tries to explain all the reasons why there won't be much new HD.

This is kind of reminding me of the days when I had D* and everyone had their own rumors from some 'inside source' about all the new HD that was coming. Of course it never did until just a few weeks ago. It got to the point where it almost became comical. I'm rapidly getting to the same point here...new rumors every day that run contrary to the rumors of 24 hours ago. :confused:

Well, last week I posted on BBR that an email from Discovery Communications specifically mentioned Verizon for the new HD channels, and that they would be coming soon. You can see my thread here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19238117-Discovery-Networks-in-HD-coming-soon

I posted that on 10/11.

Sansri, YOU may be the guy that's got it right! I really hope so.

Sansri, YOU may be the guy that's got it right! I really hope so.

Thanks, I hope I'm right even though FiOS isn't available in my area yet.

To those that question the integrity of the email (I was attacked because people said it was a generic response) I specifically mentioned Comcast in my original email to them, and got back Verizon in the response.

Sansri, YOU may be the guy that's got it right! I really hope so.

Verizon has stated that there would be HD additions before the end of the year, but that they would be "few" or "limited" or something along those lines. My only fear is that with A&E, the History VOD developments, and now the four Discovery channels, we might have hit the end of the road until mid-2008.

Oh well, so much for CNN. But maybe HD-VOD is is showing progress?

But I think few of us would have thought we'd get as many as 6 new HD channels so quickly based on so many of the posts here. I would not classify 6 new HDs as "few". So I will continue to watch for actual developments as opposed to the never ending rumor mill. As I said before, this used to drive me and many others nuts when I had D*. Everyone thought 'their source' was the correct one when in fact almost nobody's was for years. Once I ignored the "oh, I heard D* will be adding 2 new HD channels next week" rumors, I was much better off.

well its no rumors anymore with D*. they have delivered every thing including hd chans exactly when they said they would. the most they've ever delayed is a week or 2, so there is no reason to believe they won't have vod next month (prob hdvod too before fios considering dtv's emphasis on hd) and more hd chans in 2 mo. in dec. to add to what is already 2x that of comcast & fios.

kept our one bill also with fios internet, home phone & dtv triple play.

we'll come back to fios tv in 3 yrs maybe if their iptv plans work out & if its superior to the competition.

meantime instead of waiting infinetely for an hd chan here or there that may or may not come in who knows how long you can have them all now on dtv.

well its no rumors anymore with D*. they have delivered every thing including hd chans exactly when they said they would. the most they've ever delayed is a week or 2, so there is no reason to believe they won't have vod next month (prob hdvod too before fios considering dtv's emphasis on hd) and more hd chans in 2 mo. in dec. to add to what is already 2x that of comcast & fios.

kept our one bill also with fios internet, home phone & dtv triple play.

we'll come back to fios tv in 3 yrs maybe if their iptv plans work out & if its superior to the competition.

meantime instead of waiting infinetely for an hd chan here or there that may or may not come in who knows how long you can have them all now on dtv.

cool. enjoy the dish. no one cares. bye now...

Verizon has stated that there would be HD additions before the end of the year, but that they would be "few" or "limited" or something along those lines. My only fear is that with A&E, the History VOD developments, and now the four Discovery channels, we might have hit the end of the road until mid-2008.

Oh well, so much for CNN. But maybe HD-VOD is is showing progress?

HD VOD is indeed progressing. found tonite that there's one VOD movie in HD.

ok-it's "Delta Farce". had to start with SOMETHING I guess.

Didn't think to check the Subscriptions tab for any HBO-HD, SHO-HD, or STARZ!-HD on demand.

Matt you really want to see Larry King in HD? you're a brave man!:)

Would just be happy if they'd turn off the 5c or whatever they use

cool. enjoy the dish. no one cares. bye now...

I care

I have not been able to confirm the addition of these channels on 10/26 with my media contact at Verizon. I will call on Monday to see if they have any more info. Keep checking weatherscan as that was were the announcement for A & E showed up. I know for a fact that the complaining about the lack of new HD has awoken their mangement from their slumber on this issue. I for one can wait for CNN-HD.

Matt you really want to see Larry King in HD? you're a brave man!:)

If quantity is an issue, I want diversity in my HD programming. That means networks like CNN-HD, Fox Business HD, and Cartoon Network HD are more valuable than the same old crap (TBS, more educational programming, etc.).

The nice thing about a channel like CNN-HD is you can tune in every day and there is unique content. Very little content is repeated. A number of other new HD channels now have very little content, and they repeat the content they do have over and over during the week.

CNN has 60+ hours of HD per week, and most of it is unique, with Lou Dobbs (6-7pm), Larry King (9-10pm), and Anderson Cooper 360 (10-11pm) in HD on weekdays. Presidential debates and forums are in HD too, as are documentaries and specials.

CNN has 60+ hours of HD per week, and most of it is unique, with Lou Dobbs (6-7pm), Larry King (9-10pm), and Anderson Cooper 360 (10-11pm) in HD on weekdays. Presidential debates and forums are in HD too, as are documentaries and specials.

Speaking of presidential debates can someone with a Verizon contact tell them North and Central New Jerseyians are still pissed we don't have MSNBC, and are missing debates because of it. (missing next weeks)

The nice thing about a channel like CNN-HD is you can tune in every day and there is unique content. Very little content is repeated. A number of other new HD channels now have very little content, and they repeat the content they do have over and over during the week.

CNN has 60+ hours of HD per week, and most of it is unique, with Lou Dobbs (6-7pm), Larry King (9-10pm), and Anderson Cooper 360 (10-11pm) in HD on weekdays. Presidential debates and forums are in HD too, as are documentaries and specials.

I never watch cable news except when there's a big story going on. but I may tune in more regularly if it's HD.

Speaking of presidential debates can someone with a Verizon contact tell them North and Central New Jerseyians are still pissed we don't have MSNBC, and are missing debates because of it. (missing next weeks)

I believe that is because Cablevision has an exclusive contract with MSNBC in the New York / Jersey area and has nothing to do with Verizon

I care

the point of what i said was directed towards Quatres pointless and unconstructive statements. great, directv FINALLY got their new HD channels. it's only taken them two years of telling people "soon" to get there.

I believe that is because Cablevision has an exclusive contract with MSNBC in the New York / Jersey area and has nothing to do with VerizonCablevision does have a MSNBC exclusive in those areas until some time in 2008, apparently. The 'problem' is that Verizon lacks MSNBC in areas of NY and/or NJ where Cablevision doesn't offer service.

I believe that is because Cablevision has an exclusive contract with MSNBC in the New York / Jersey area and has nothing to do with Verizon

So does that mean D* doesn't have it in those same areas? If they do, how were they able to get it?

cool. enjoy the dish. no one cares. bye now...

I usually am not this harsh, but wake up. With out D* we would have NO leverage with Verizon. Remember, competition is the consumers best friend. I want to know about ALL options and keep them open. I also switched from D* a few month ago. Already, I have had outages on ESPN and ESPN2....it was in my entire area. Even Comcast lost the channel in HD during the Florida State game.
This NEVER happened when I had D*....so I ain't completely sold on Verizon yet.

Did anyone else have this outage on the HD station ESPN2 Florida state game?

Phillip Swann says the Verizon HD expansion is coming -- but it is coming next spring.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/verizon102207.htm

I think alot of this "number of HD stations" is being blown out of proportion....I think it should be focused solely on "HD content"......You could have 250 HD stations, but if 90% is stretched 4:3, then I'll stick with a provider that has good SD PQ.

I think alot of this "number of HD stations" is being blown out of proportion....I think it should be focused solely on "HD content"......You could have 250 HD stations, but if 90% is stretched 4:3, then I'll stick with a provider that has good SD PQ.
I think you are over-reacting to the news that TBS-HD is all stretch-o-vision along with A&E-HD and History Channel also stretching stuff. Most of the new HD channels do not stretch their SD. The key is whether the prime-time programs that people want to watch would be available in HD on the recent HD start-ups. Sci-Fi, FX, USA all have scripted series which have been shot in HD for years. The stuff on CNN-HD coming out of the NYC studios is in HD. Those four channels along with the sports HD channels would be a good priority set to add. The issue is whether Verizon will sort through the HD channels and if they do indeed have room to add a few more before "next spring", will add those that provide a higher HD value.

Given that Verizon just gave us A&E-HD, which I would vote for as the most useless HD channel out of the 20 current national HD channels on Fios, I suspect not and that it instead will be driven by the order of the signing of the agreements for HD carriage with the cable nets.

As for swanni, there is nothing in that article that is new info. We have been getting these rumblings of no "major" expansion of HD channels for some time until next spring or summer after Verizon has shut down the analog channels in favor of digital QAM channels. Perhaps by "major' expansion, Verizon means the ability to add all the new HD channels to match the D* expansion. Does not necessarily preclude them from adding a few more, which bfdtv has indicated is in the works. One problem I can see is that the schedule for shutting down the analog channels may be way too optimistic as it only takes one or two local government boards to throw a monkey wrench into it by demanding a delay. Verizon will also have to do a major channel re-shuffle before they can add all the HD channels as there is not room for all of them between 820 and 860. That requires at least 30 days notice to the customers and a lead time before that to prepare mailings and notices.

Verizon is not talking on a official basis, or at least, not in anything other than in generalities, which is probably a reflection of their corporate culture as a phone company, so we will have to pick through the tea leaves of internet rumors on when, if any, HD channels are going to be added.

afiggatt,

Thanks for the post. BTW, I hope the Discovery stations pan out by friday.

Phillip Swann says the Verizon HD expansion is coming -- but it is coming next spring.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/verizon102207.htm

I hate to say it, but I agree with his assessment at the end of the article.

I hate to say it, but I agree with his assessment at the end of the article.

How much bandwidth do those games take up? I believe it's minimal. Also, if the rumored 5 HD stations are added by week's end, that's VERY promising because it was rumored that little to nothing would be added until spring.

Please people, I had D* for years and I heard the same complaints over there for years. It's a game of leap frog and Verizon WILL catch up. I hate to say this, but you know there are other choices out there, right? Why complain...if it's that bad then simply switch. I mean come on....if your really that ticked then just go to D* or your other local cable company. I choose to wait. My D* dish and hardwiring is still in place and if Verizon does not do anything in a reasonable amount of time then I'll leave. Cable in my area (Comcast) has very few HD channels....not even worth it IMHO.

So complaining won't do a thing....it's good to speculate, write to verizon, etc. But if you want alot of HD now, we all know what we have to do.

Has anyone been having problems with the Guide on HD Channels.

I have my DVR setup to record Chuck and Heros weekly. Twice now it has listed Chuck as being on at 9PM (real time is 8), and Heroes is not listed at all. It also lists Law & Order at 10, when that is really Journeyman.

I have not seen this happen at any other time, or on any other channel and the Standard Def menu is fine. There is something about these two shows that the HD Guide just does not like.

Has anyone been having problems with the Guide on HD Channels.

I have my DVR setup to record Chuck and Heros weekly. Twice now it has listed Chuck as being on at 9PM (real time is 8), and Heroes is not listed at all. It also lists Law & Order at 10, when that is really Journeyman.

I have not seen this happen at any other time, or on any other channel and the Standard Def menu is fine. There is something about these two shows that the HD Guide just does not like.

I have had problems with the guide being inacturate as to show, channel and time but even more bothersome is the Motorola 6416-2 STB shuts itself off for no reason.
I have spoken with Verizon Tech support about this, they have rebooted, reprogrammed and even replaced the box and yet it still shuts itself off for apparently no reason.
It seems enjoying doing this thursdays around 8pm and tuesdays midnight and other various times, if something is recording it gets screwed up. Verizon denies they are the cause.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has simalar problems.

I have had problems with the guide being inacturate as to show, channel and time but even more bothersome is the Motorola 6416-2 STB shuts itself off for no reason.
I have spoken with Verizon Tech support about this, they have rebooted, reprogrammed and even replaced the box and yet it still shuts itself off for apparently no reason.
It seems enjoying doing this thursdays around 8pm and tuesdays midnight and other various times, if something is recording it gets screwed up. Verizon denies they are the cause.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has simalar problems.

Yup, had this the last couple of weeks (intermittently). I called service, they downloaded the latest software, restarted the DVR and have had no trouble since (crossing fingers).

Can't be exclusive, as Comcast also carries MSNBC (NJ)

Cablevision does have a MSNBC exclusive in those areas until some time in 2008, apparently. The 'problem' is that Verizon lacks MSNBC in areas of NY and/or NJ where Cablevision doesn't offer service.

Hey! Ho! Great news for you customers!!

All 4 Discovery Networks are going to be added on 10/26. This according to a thread over at BBR: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19266945-New-HD-channels

Tomorrow's the 26th - Has anyone heard further about this? VZ CSR's are clueless still (no surprise there).

Can't be exclusive, as Comcast also carries MSNBC (NJ)

Sorry if this is OT.

But Comcast slices NJ up into many more pieces than Verizon. When I was Comcast Eatontown, I didn't overlap with any Cablevision markets. Now that I'm Verizon, North Jersey, I overlap with Cablevision markets in Freehold, Ocean Township, Bergen County, etc. Unless they can figure out a way to give us the channel without piping it to those other areas, we're stuck.

Ok, back to "Where's New HD?"

Tomorrow's the 26th - Has anyone heard further about this? VZ CSR's are clueless still (no surprise there).

Somehow I'd doubt, but we can always hope.

Tomorrow's the 26th - Has anyone heard further about this? VZ CSR's are clueless still (no surprise there).

I heard they may offer new HD channels in the near future if available by area is agreeable to terms therein of contractual obligation solely restricted to the right and privacy of Verizon's obligation in which may be attributed to any use either written or expressed solely by Verizon and HD.....

There you have it....Verizon and HD's future. I'm sure that should clarify your question.;)

10/26/2007...Doubt it....:mad: But like a fool, I will check the channel guide every 10 minute for the next month....I'm such a sucker!!!

I heard they may offer new HD channels in the near future if available by area is agreeable to terms therein of contractual obligation solely restricted to the right and privacy of Verizon's obligation in which may be attributed to any use either written or expressed solely by Verizon and HD.....

There you have it....Verizon and HD's future. I'm sure that should clarify your question.;)

10/26/2007...Doubt it....:mad: But like a fool, I will check the channel guide every 10 minute for the next month....I'm such a sucker!!!

Perfectly clear now - Thanks :rolleyes:

Are you a contract lawyer?? :D

I'll be checking every 5 minutes myself

Tomorrow's the 26th - Has anyone heard further about this? VZ CSR's are clueless still (no surprise there).
As of this moring I saw no Banner scroll on the weather channel, so I doubt anything is happening tomorrow...
With A&E HD, the banner announcement was there for days before the channel was added.

As of this moring I saw no Banner scroll on the weather channel, so I doubt anything is happening tomorrow...
With A&E HD, the banner announcement was there for days before the channel was added.

Sorry, But I choose to live in denial.....;)


I'll be checking every 5 minutes myself

Ohhhh, you think your so COOL....well, I'll check the guide every 2 MINUTES !!!!
Top that!!!;)

Ohhhh, you think your so COOL....well, I'll check the guide every 2 MINUTES !!!!
Top that!!!;)

1 minute:D

1 minute:D

Sorry Mike!! Had to!! awaiting you to top!:eek:

Sorry Mike!! Had to!! awaiting you to top!:eek:
I can't....My wife just gave me a time out and I am grounded....you win.:o:(

I can't....My wife just gave me a time out and I am grounded....you win.:o:(

I've never won anything in my life - woohoo!!:cool:

"Ignorance is bliss"---- I usually don't believe these reports of "insider information" but I did this time and it's the last time. I was so excited that I woke up early, ran downstairs and checked the guide...."nothing, must be a mistake..." I was like a "junkie" in denial...."NO! let me scroll through the guide again..." I started to sweat and needed another "fix"!!! "How can this be....maybe just one more peek".

Guys, I need help....I'm addicted to vicious HD rumors and I can't stop!!!! ;)

I need to get a life.....PATHETIC!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Nothing worse than expecting something and not getting it rather than to expect nothing and get it unexpected. Last time I listen to rumors about Verizon...I should know better, Verizon does the same thing with their wireless customers....keep 'em in the dark.

"Ignorance is bliss"---- I usually don't believe these reports of "insider information" but I did this time and it's the last time. I was so excited that I woke up early, ran downstairs and checked the guide...."nothing, must be a mistake..." I was like a "junkie" in denial...."NO! let me scroll through the guide again..." I started to sweat and needed another "fix"!!! "How can this be....maybe just one more peek".

Guys, I need help....I'm addicted to vicious HD rumors and I can't stop!!!! ;)

I need to get a life.....PATHETIC!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Nothing worse than expecting something and not getting it rather than to expect nothing and get it unexpected. Last time I listen to rumors about Verizon...I should know better, Verizon does the same thing with their wireless customers....keep 'em in the dark.

No kidding. I think I should say something to get myself banned so I can't check for these rumors anymore. That's okay....I could be compulsive about something like gambling or drinking...at least it's just HD rumors.

Time for a beer.

6am in the west coast and no sign of new channels.

man, they're cutting it close :)

6am in the west coast and no sign of new channels.

man, they're cutting it close :)

I don't think VZ is cutting anything in the way of new channels. At least they have their cute little video games coming "soon".

Verizon does the same thing with their wireless customers....keep 'em in the dark.

Thats called the Mushroom syndrome...
Keep 'em in the dark, and feed 'em $41t. Very popular in large corporations.

Thats called the Mushroom syndrome...
Keep 'em in the dark, and feed 'em $41t. Very popular in large corporations.


I like mushrooms....but only in HD.:)

I thought I was clear that there would be no new HD until the spring.

I like mushrooms....but only in HD.:)

As my brother says, I'd watch grass grow -- if its in HD. :)

I thought I was clear that there would be no new HD until the spring.
NOTHING is "clear" :) .
People were saying that even Before A&E was added.
My best guess from reading all the various boards, reports, rumors ect ...
is that VZ was/is planning to add around 2 to 4 more National HD's between SEPT-DEC '07...
We've already seen 1 (A&E HD), so I wouldn't be surprised if a couple more show up by Jan 1. ( I also, however, wouldn't be surprised if they don't either.)...
Their ability to add a big "chunk" of HD's, say, 20 or more at once , is what surely
isn't going to happen until April-July '08 ... But I do think it's most likley that we will see a couple/few more before then ....

Err, it was pretty clear that no announcement on The Weather Channel means no new channels. I doubt Verizon would be launching new channels while they're in the midst of rolling out the IMG in new areas anyway.

For better or worse (really, just for worse), Verizon seems focused only on the blasted and faulty IMG at the moment.

Err, it was pretty clear that no announcement on The Weather Channel means no new channels. I doubt Verizon would be launching new channels while they're in the midst of rolling out the IMG in new areas anyway.

For better or worse (really, just for worse), Verizon seems focused only on the blasted and faulty IMG at the moment.
I agree, I never expected any new channels today , since there was never a banner on the Weather channel...
However , it's not clear to me that there will be absolutly No Hd additions whatsoever until spring, I tend to doubt that .... I think we'll see 1 to 3 or so more added, before they are able to make a "big" push of significant numbers . .... Time will tell ....

"Ignorance is bliss"---- I usually don't believe these reports of "insider information" but I did this time and it's the last time. I was so excited that I woke up early, ran downstairs and checked the guide...."nothing, must be a mistake..." I was like a "junkie" in denial...."NO! let me scroll through the guide again..." I started to sweat and needed another "fix"!!! "How can this be....maybe just one more peek".

Guys, I need help....I'm addicted to vicious HD rumors and I can't stop!!!! ;)

I need to get a life.....PATHETIC!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Nothing worse than expecting something and not getting it rather than to expect nothing and get it unexpected. Last time I listen to rumors about Verizon...I should know better, Verizon does the same thing with their wireless customers....keep 'em in the dark.

As I said before, I learned to ignore those when I was a D* subscriber for many years. You'd go nuts if you believed every "ooo, just heard 10 more HDs coming tomorrow". It seems everyone has THE source when in fact nobody does. :rolleyes:

I live in a Philly suburb. Currently, have Fios but my suspended DirectTv account is about to be reactivated. Here's what I was considering. I would really miss my Comcast Sports net on Fios. So here's what I'm thinking since I'm not going to spend $212 bucks early cancellation fee at DirectTv.
Has anyone ever thought of keeping Fios via CableCard and switching to DirectTv as well for HD with their HD DVR Plus package ? DirectTv offered me their latest HD DVR STB for $99 and 3 months of HBO free plus a free reinstall. I figure I could have the best of both worlds Verizon FIOS QAM channels and DirectTv HD AND HBO for about 125-130 a month. Still have a couple days to decide.

Any thoughts ?? Does Verizon offer any package less than $43 it cost for it's premier tier ? It woukl be great if I didn't have to pay for a Verizon package to use the Cable Card.....wishful thinking, probably NO WAY !

The problem is the legacy HD channels on D*. Those are still compressed and bit starved. If PQ is very important to you, that is a consideration. There's no arguing that D* wipes the floor with FIOS for HD quantity, but there are still those D* MPEG2s and their lousy PQ.

But in relation to the # of MPEG2 channels (few) versus MPEG4 (many)....not really a consideration. Also, the MPEG2 channels will be transitioned to MPEG4 (D11?), which I'm certain you already know...

But in relation to the # of MPEG2 channels (few) versus MPEG4 (many)....not really a consideration. Also, the MPEG2 channels will be transitioned to MPEG4 (D11?), which I'm certain you already know...

Sure is if they're the channels you watch! You specifically mentioned HBO and that's one of the legacy MPEG2s. So is HDNet and a bunch of others that I watch.

Frankly if D* switched all of these to MPEG4, I'd probably switch now.

i would be willing to wait for more HD on FIOS if I were able to get Center Ice.

That is why I am not yet a Verzion FIOS customer.

Sure is if they're the channels you watch! You specifically mentioned HBO and that's one of the legacy MPEG2s. So is HDNet and a bunch of others that I watch.

Frankly if D* switched all of these to MPEG4, I'd probably switch now.

Only HBO East is MPEG2.

i would be willing to wait for more HD on FIOS if I were able to get Center Ice.

That is why I am not yet a Verzion FIOS customer.

You will miss center ice I switched last year, thought by now fios would have it and some more sports pac's. Thinking of switching to D again but love the pictue quality on fios. But they are very slow to add channels.

for the guy with D* & contemplating keeping fios.

let me know how that works out, use wise & pricing.

I kept comcast with one hd dvr box for hd on demand (which fios never got) and for getting all standard & basic cable chans on an analog crt tv & it seemed like it got more channels total trough coax even for another room with tv with qam tuner.

would have had to run new lines to get fios in 2 of the3 rooms I kept comcast on & basement with comcast hd dvr I have acces to switch it to either.

maybe fios is cheaper not sure which is part of why im interested but comcast has more hd chans then fios right now, hd on demand & is getting tivo software in their dvr boxes.

comcast doesn't have hdnet & hdnet movies like fios but like I said has more hd chans total then fios & dtv has the hdnets (though this could become a factor when dtv charges $5 extra for hdnets & a couple other hd chans as part of hd extras or something)

I do have comcast fed coax into main room tv with qam on same tv I have the dtv hd dvr but csn phila. doesn't come in hd without a stb.

I don't think my tv has cable card & they still charge for that & I only want to pay for one stb (the hd dvr) for comcast cus between that & the standard&basic cable charges of comcast as a secondary carrier is enough on top of dtv with 2 hd dvr, & 2 hd boxes.

was able to get out of fios tv with no etf cus keeping fios internet & added dtv to triple play one bill.

that's part of why it prob wouldn't make sense to have dtv & fios cus I don't think they could put both on the bill plus we already had comcast in place for the 3 tvs and 4 on fios switched to dtv so that was easiest.

for us in phila area I think the best of both worlds combo is dtv as main with comcast seecondary (mostly for csn as dtv has on demand now rolling out & already some hd with more to come next month which will prob beat fios to hd on demand) dtv as main tv provider & fios inet.

if I want to watch csn in hd I go down to basement hometheatre area with the comcast hd dvr box.

fios doesn't have anything that dtv & comcast don't have so again for us in philly area it seems like dtv with comcast as secondary is best combo as fios remains only on top for internet as their tv service has fallen off a bit & doesn't look like it will even begin to catch up for some time.

but let me know how the dtv ffios combo works out & how you do it as if it was better and/or cheaper id consider it but ultimately im hoping to get rid of the secondary tv provider & just have one.

kind of sad that I had to keep comcast anyway while I had fios so if im continue to keep it I mine as well have dtv over fios as dtv not having csn doesn't affect me.

dtv said they are fighting to get csn philly. when they do I can drop comcast & have dtv & will have it for years to come.

they are always getting better making the most improvements the fastest while fios tv is stopped in its tracks, dead in the water.

can connect an esata hd to dtv box for tons of dvr space & you can get new software all the time for the stb's which adds new features even get them early if you find out about the "cutting edge" beta software dl windows of opportunity on dbstalk.

its really the best technology & service getting better quickly all the time.

soon mpeg2's will be phased out so noone can use that as a reason not to get dtv. they might eventually get csn phila. they soon will be able to use one cable to dvr instead of 2 so the detractors won't be able to use that agains them.

dtv as main tv provider, comcast as secondary with hd dvr (soon with tivo software) & fios data ftw.

Only HBO East is MPEG2.According to the sticky on this forum, the following DirecTV channels are still bitstarved MPEG-2:

ESPN HD (206/73)
ESPN2 HD (209/72)
(Discovery) HD Theater (76)
HDNet (79)
HDNet Movies (78)
TNT HD (245/75)
Universal HD (74)
HBO HD East (70/501/509)
Showtime HD (71/537/543)

The channels are now listed on new numbers but the new numbers use the same old MPEG-2 feed.

DirecTV is expected to replace these channels with MPEG-4 versions, but it won't happen with D10, as DirecTV has exhausted their capacity on that satellite. The D11 satellite is now scheduled for launch in Q1 2008, and should commense operation in Q2.

DirecTV is expected to replace these channels with MPEG-4 versions, but it won't happen with D10,as DirecTV has exhausted their capacity on that satellite. The D11 satellite is now scheduled for launch in Q1 2008, and should commense operation in Q2.

The bolded part is not true. I do agree that they will wait for D11 to go up though, as they still have new HD channels to add on D10.

The bolded part is not true. I do agree that they will wait for D11 to go up though, as they still have new HD channels to add on D10.I guess that depends on your definition of full capacity.

Five channels per transponder * 14 CONUS transponders equals 70 channels.

Perhaps I miscounted, but it looks like DirecTV is pretty close to that number when you figure in the RSNs and PPVs.

I didn't check either! They are much closer than I thought. D10 will be full once they add the 13 announced channels. If one or two of those channels don't launch until late 1st quarter/early 2nd quarter (Chiller?), then they will have room to add a couple more national 24/7 RSNs earlier. The D11 satellite should be operational by mid-March '08 (tentative launch 1/12/08). And capacity increases again.

10 of the current list are MPEG2, ie not on the new sat.

dtv said they are fighting to get csn philly. when they do I can drop comcast & have dtv & will have it for years to come.


That ain't gonna' happen. D* has been trying for about 10 years or so. I stuck with D* for 7 years and loved them however, I recently switched to FIOS. I switched mainly because of RSN on FIOS and I refused to go to Comcast.....pride thing I guess. I am in Philly and the only thing I heard (this may be rumor) is Comcast signed a deal with D* that you can get the Phillies on D*'s "Baseball Season Pass" package. Like I said, I read about it but was not able to confirm this.

Maybe someone can shed some light.

Also, FIOS' SD/HD channels are far better (in terms of PQ) than D*...especially SD channels...no comparison there. I think the Moto box does a better job, overall on native 1080I than the D* boxes (OTA) did....once again, this is just my opinion....crazy as it sounds.