There is a live blog with one of the Devs, post here http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/10/03/uncharted-drakes-fortune-update/#comments
to let them know your concerns and hopefully we will get out answer

nope, not concerned at all....

:p

Thanks for the heads up, just made a post there. I saw another question or two regarding the issue so hopefully we'll get this figured out soon.

Let just see it this way. People with HD capable TV is about 15% of the market. Atleast
80% of those has a native resolution of 720p and 1080i with 720p being dominant. So there
isn't really a impact on the consumers but us enthusiast.

concerns me, I only have 1080i on my display.

No, I have a 1080p TV.

Nope. I am 720p, 1080i, and 1080p capable. My wife insisted that I got the HD I wanted!

There was some hope that this would only affect a few early games but unfortunately it appears to be an ongoing shortcoming of the PS3 :(

I am a 1080i tv and thats the sole reason I buy no games for the ps3..they are all mostly in 720 format which means it drops to 480 and looks crummy. I bought it for a blu ray and thats all I will use it for til they can uspcale 720 games

I promise you...

720p still looks great!!!:rolleyes:

If you can display it...

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

I purchased it knowing it didn't display or upscale 720p images, but it has never been an issue until now because every HD device I've used scales to the desired resolution. My cable box, HD-A1, and xbox 360 are all capable of outputting either 720p or 1080i as needed. I've never had an issue with a device not supporting 1080i output until the ps3. I knew the of the issues with the ps3, but was under the impression that many developers were starting to take it into consideration, and hoping that eventually sony would decide to do what every other HD device I have, or have used does, and scale the output the the desired resolution.

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

SERIOUSLY.

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

That I want the HDTV that performs best in Picture Quality and Color Reproduction, black levels, and at 1080 no less, in other words I was joining CLUB 1080: http://www.club1080.com/ for the highest level of detail I could get

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

Unfortunately for some people who purchased new TV's during the last few months of 2001 and early 2002 a majority of the HD compatible non-widescreen's that were around were only 480i/p and 1080i. There really wasn't much of a choice at the time for a decent TV at the time. My parents unfortunately fall into that group and as HD TV was barely a vision in my local cable providers eyes at the time, a widescreen TV was a lesser option do to loss of screen space to formatting properly, and price. Pretty much anyone who bought an HD tv during that period from most BBY's or CC's are feeling the effects of this.

In 2002, I was thinking what a great deal it was on the TV. And I figured that going foward, all HD devices would support all HD signals. And that pretty much holds true, as every HD device I own can display/scale to 1080i. I would have never thought that an "advanced" piece of tech like the PS3 couldn't do what my 50 dollar cable box, HD-A2, and Xbox 360 can.

I got my top rated widescreen HD CRT the year it was made 2005, so not that long ago these tvs were still being made, by Sony even

I also purchased my set in 2005. It is not a top of the line set(panasonic 26" widescreen crt) but the picture quality is very nice, especially for the $300 I paid. I would like to upgrade my set in the future, but I currently don't have the funds to do it(and my receiver needs replacing before my tv).

I don't think it's unreasonable however to expect sony's device to do what almost all HD devices(that I know of, that is) do and upscale the content to that it maximizes compatibility, especially with many of the very nice Sony CRT sets that don't support 720p.

I just asked because all I heard when researching tv's in that time period was stay the hell away from 480i/p and 1080i inputs.

I really feel you guys out, but was wondering if you got drawn in by good deals, or con-artists.

I made sure to wait till prices came down on the 1080p and backwards TV's, figuring there'd be issues like this in the future.

You guys should start writing some letters to the editors of gaming mags and to the dev's of games you like. Not sure if it's a tech thing keeping scaling back, or a lack of knowledge thing {will the ps3 only render in 1080i?}

I'd suggest getting a group together and organize a hand written letter campaign and send letters over one week to people in the biz, handwritten stuff usually moves people more now adays because everyone just uses email these days.

Thats a good idea tyrant,I may have to give that a shot. The media is always good at putting pressure on companies, as much as I may despise them at times. :p

I was mostly drawn by the good deal, I'm just glad I knew exactly what I was getting into, as I did with the ps3. The set had some nasty overscan, and a couple geometry issues, but nothing some test patterns, patience, and service menu access couldn't fix. I'm quite satisfied with my TV, and very happy with the ps3, I just wish my game selection wasn't so limited.

And I will say, there are some games that don't look too bad in 480p, like heavenly sword, and folklore. They would look better if I could play them in HD, but in the case of folklore I'm willing to compromise for an enjoyable play experience.

Not concerned, I just saved 60 bucks. If devs are too lazy to code for upscaling, I will spend my money elsewhere.

Sony really needs to put the requirement that 720 games upscale to 1080. Until then, the PS3 is not competitive.

I am a 1080i tv and thats the sole reason I buy no games for the ps3..they are all mostly in 720 format which means it drops to 480 and looks crummy. I bought it for a blu ray and thats all I will use it for til they can uspcale 720 games

I think most new games upscales now (besides the EA games) but Warhawk upscales, MLB the Show upscales.....I don't know if Heavenly Sword does, but since Uncharted is a SCEA(American) game, I believe it will....

Heavenly Sword is an euro game as was Motorstorm and F1... in Europe they don't have the 1080i/480p problem because I believe it is mandatory that every HDTV supports 720p.....

you should check out Warhawk, if you haven't already....

Heavenly Sword does not upscale. And while EA sports games don't upscale, some other games published by EA do, such as NBA Street and Skate, which I believe are both developed by different teams. Lets just hope advice gets passed around through EA's dev teams so they address the 1080i issue, I know I played APF 2k8 this year instead of madden partly because of this issue(and because NFL 2k5 was the last football game I really loved to play).

A few other 1080i titles worth checking out would be Ninja Gaiden Sigma, and Warhawk as mentioned above.

For the first few months I owned the ps3, I was playing on a SD CRT display. To be honest, 480p doesn't look that bad with a lot of the ps3 games. Obviously not as good as HD resolution, but I'd rather play a good game in 480p than not at all.

BTW the dev just posted this, so you guys are lucky.

Hey guys, I appreciate all of these comments. And in fact, you have just helped us out immensely. I wasn’t fully aware of how important it was for us to support 1080i. Up until earlier today we were only supporting 720p (and SD of course) but reading through these comments, it was brought to my attention the number of people who had HDTV’s but would not be able to experience Uncharted in high-def. So we immediately went to work and I’m pleased to announce here, for the first time, that we have now implemented 1080 support! Thanks for pointing this out to us, so now even more people will get to enjoy Uncharted the way it was meant to be… in glorious high definition!

Hell yes! Thanks for the update joe, I just looked through the blog but didn't see that. I'm super pumped for this game now.

And I agree with you joe, that some games don't look bad at all in 480p(though some really do) but I will say they look a little worse when you pop it in after playing a game in 1080. :p

And thanks to coney as well for making the thread to help get a few more posts on the blog about the issue!

Well 720p will be fine for me now (768 pio plasma); but it's good to see these kind of issues addressed.

Ask and ye shall receive. Thats cool.

It's also refreshing to see those who don't have the issue in support of it as well here on AVS. Other forums I have been on are very hostile towards the issue, and posters refuse to think about the issue, or respond with more than "buy a new tv".

I dont have this issue but I think if the competition makes it work...then Sony should too.

I find it interesting how quickly he responded that it would be implemented. It sorta makes you ask the question, is it really that hard to implement if he can come back hours later to announce that it will be supported when there was no plans at all to support it in the first place?

I find it interesting how quickly he responded that it would be implemented. It sorta makes you ask the question, is it really that hard to implement if he can come back hours later to announce that it will be supported?

I thought that too. But after thinking about it i just decided if Uncharted is delayed i'll blame it on the 1080i owners. :D

BTW the dev just posted this, so you guys are lucky.

Hey guys, I appreciate all of these comments. And in fact, you have just helped us out immensely. I wasn’t fully aware of how important it was for us to support 1080i. Up until earlier today we were only supporting 720p (and SD of course) but reading through these comments, it was brought to my attention the number of people who had HDTV’s but would not be able to experience Uncharted in high-def. So we immediately went to work and I’m pleased to announce here, for the first time, that we have now implemented 1080 support! Thanks for pointing this out to us, so now even more people will get to enjoy Uncharted the way it was meant to be… in glorious high definition!

NICE. I will put this back on the BUY list. Anyone have contact info to send a thanks to?

It's also refreshing to see those who don't have the issue in support of it as well here on AVS.

Hey, as long as it doesn't cause a performance, or asset reduction hit to us 720P/1080P'ers, i'm all for it!

;)

^^

As long as it's not "assed" 1080i like rainbow 6, I'm all for it. Forcing resolutions will be a PITA if I have to do it for multiple games.

^^

As long as it's not "assed" 1080i like rainbow 6, I'm all for it. Forcing resolutions will be a PITA if I have to do it for multiple games.

There really needs to be an option to set the resolution for each game individually.

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

Apparently you came into hdtv later in the cycle or you would not ask that question. For early adopters of hdtv, all the way back to the late 90's 1080i was THE standard. That technology being CRT actually still holds up very well today with excellent picture quality.

Though I have newer sets now as well I still have a very good set from 1999. It's not a matter of "what were you thinking" because support of 720p was not an issue at the time, 1080i was generally preferred and many of the very best sets you could buy were 1080i only.

Great news to hear a dev listen and add the support. Apparently it wasn't all that difficult to add either.

That seems very, very strange that they would all of a sudden say that they can now support 1080i. That doesn't make sense at all. From what I can understand, PS3 games that are going to do the 960 x 1080i trick, need to be programmed that way from the very beginning. This just doesn't compute. Uncharted should be basically done by now, so how could they possibly achieve this? This makes me think that it's going to be like Rainbow 6, and look like absolute ass.

Having said all of that, if this really is legit, then thank the HEAVENS!!!. Uncharted and Ratchet are my two most wanted PS3 games coming this year, and to be able to play them on my living room TV, would be a true joy! No question, I'll want to play them on my 720p projector in my theater room, but sometimes you just wanna kick back in your living room and play for a half hour or 45 minutes, without having to fire up your projector setup.

That seems very, very strange that they would all of a sudden say that they can now support 1080i. That doesn't make sense at all. From what I can understand, PS3 games that are going to do the 960 x 1080i trick, need to be programmed that way from the very beginning.
Yes and no. I agree that it raises an eyebrow that they could plug in preliminary 1080 support in just a day or two, but if their engine was flexible to begin with, then it's not outside the realm of possibility.

The main changes introduced by supporting the scaled 960x1080 mode are the additional resources used by the screen buffer (~12% more memory than 720p, and presumably some extra processing power to fill the extra pixels), and the change in aspect ratio, which also affects any 2D overlays like the HUD.

For most modern 3D engines, changing the resolution and aspect ratio is literally as simple as changing about 3 values, and can often be done on the fly. If the engine already handles the scaling of 2D overlays (which is quite possible, given that PS3 games have to support 480p in addition to any HD resolutions), and there's enough memory and processing power to spare, then supporting 960x1080 could be extremely simple. But if there aren't any resources to spare, or if there are parts of the code that have been hardwired to the assumption that you're using 720p only (or 480p/720p only), then retroactively adding 960x1080 support could be a huge pain.

This makes me think that it's going to be like Rainbow 6, and look like absolute ass.
I really hope not.

- Jer

just out of curiosity,

For those who only have TV's that support a 1080i signal... what the heck were you thinking when purchasing it?

You read these threads and you would conclude 90% of PS3 owners own 1080i-only HDTVs.

Not concerned, I just saved 60 bucks. If devs are too lazy to code for upscaling, I will spend my money elsewhere.

Sony really needs to put the requirement that 720 games upscale to 1080. Until then, the PS3 is not competitive.

kind of new to this so just asking. won't a 720p game be DOWNSCALING to be able to run in 1080i. isn't that why all these people have 1080i sets because at the time they were cheaper then the true 720p hd sets that were on the market. i have a 1080i only, as i remember paying 300-400 less for the cheaper 1080i instead of true hi-def. at the time 720p was the gold standard for hi-def

That seems very, very strange that they would all of a sudden say that they can now support 1080i. That doesn't make sense at all. From what I can understand, PS3 games that are going to do the 960 x 1080i trick, need to be programmed that way from the very beginning. This just doesn't compute. Uncharted should be basically done by now, so how could they possibly achieve this? This makes me think that it's going to be like Rainbow 6, and look like absolute ass.

Having said all of that, if this really is legit, then thank the HEAVENS!!!. Uncharted and Ratchet are my two most wanted PS3 games coming this year, and to be able to play them on my living room TV, would be a true joy! No question, I'll want to play them on my 720p projector in my theater room, but sometimes you just wanna kick back in your living room and play for a half hour or 45 minutes, without having to fire up your projector setup.

I don't know if you were part of the Warhawk Beta....but in the very very beginning, it didn't support 1080i....but like a week later they patched it.... the Warhawk devs and Uncharted devs are close..as well as the Resistance devs.... so I wouldn't be surprised if they figured something out and networked with each other...(if only they would have knew about the 1080i problem before the Resistance release)

I personally believe that Warhawk is upscaled a totally different way than other titles like Ninja G. (960x 1080).......

http://kotaku.com/gaming/fan-service/uncharted-nearly-done-now-supports-1080i-306903.php


It appears ppl aren't reading my post! THE GAME NOW SUPPORTS 720p and 1080i resolutions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kind of new to this so just asking. won't a 720p game be DOWNSCALING to be able to run in 1080i. isn't that why all these people have 1080i sets because at the time they were cheaper then the true 720p hd sets that were on the market. i have a 1080i only, as i remember paying 300-400 less for the cheaper 1080i instead of true hi-def. at the time 720p was the gold standard for hi-def

No. More like an upscale from 720p to 1080i.

1080i carries the same resolution as 1080p (http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/) i.e. 1920x1080 lines of resolution.

It's Deinterlacing, Not Scaling
HD DVD and Blu-ray content is 1080p/24. If your player outputs a 60-Hz signal (that is, one that your TV can display), the player is adding (creating) the 3:2 sequence. So, whether you output 1080i or 1080p, it is still inherently the same information.

The only difference is in whether the player interlaces it and your TV deinterlaces it, or if the player just sends out the 1080p signal directly. If the TV correctly deinterlaces 1080i, then there should be no visible difference between deinterlaced 1080i and direct 1080p (even with that extra step). There is no new information—nor is there more resolution, as some people think.

This is because, as you can see in Figure 1, there is no new information with the progressive signal. It's all based on the same original 24 frames per second.

Now for native 1080p game you could get a bit of difference (although even then it's doubtful most would see anything) but then vast majority of these console games are 720p to begin with.

You read these threads and you would conclude 90% of PS3 owners own 1080i-only HDTVs.

90% or 2% is not the issue. It affects people and in fact even a small percentage represents at least many thousands of people. It you're an affected person then then it becomes 100% as far as you're concerned.

Fortunately this dev appreciates that fact.

Naughty Dog made my day! 1080i and this is now a must buy game!

upscaling a game rendered in 720p to 1080 is a far easier thing to do than render in any form of 1080. Warhawk is a great example of how this can be done well, btw I will be thanking Evan so should everyone else

i am concerned if they hype 1080p with "amazing 30fps" like with lair. Solid framerate with 720p way better than 1080p with slow fps.

upscaling a game rendered in 720p to 1080 is a far easier thing to do than render in any form of 1080.
If you have the resources to spare, maybe. But doing that requires that you keep both a 1280x720 buffer and a 1920x1080 buffer active at all times, which uses anywhere from ~6 to ~8 extra megabytes for the 1080 buffer, depending on pixel bit depth.

A straight upscale of 720 to 1080 also induces pixel blurring, which doesn't happen on a 960x1080 render -- so there are tradeoffs.

Warhawk is a great example of how this can be done well
Yes, but the upscaling makes the small text blurrier and harder to read. This would be less of an issue on a 960x1080 render.

- Jer

Uncharted looked great on On the Spot.

I have a 720p TV so I'm not effected but can someone please explain why in the hell Sony can't add upscaling for 720p games to 1080i via a software update? We know the PS3 has a scaling chip because it's been documented and we've seen it in use when upscaling DVDs and PS2 games and we know it doesn't require the use of any system resources to upscale since the game is simply rendering in 720p and information is being added so it fits a 1080i resolution. So what's Sony's issue? I know I'd be pissed if I had a great looking HD CRT and couldn't play all my PS3 games in high-def.