Ok This could be it!!!!

Gary has Agreed to send me out a set of boards.

Mike agrees i should get the boards but bring them down to him..one problem It is almost impossible for me to get away to go anywhere. Not only do I own my own Restaurant but i am also the main cook and its next to impossible for me to get away.

So two things can happen.

Mike sends me a set of boards to do the blind test. once i set up each set of boards we can arrange for a panel to come here and do the evaluations.

Or mike can come up here with a set and he can assist me in setting up the boards if Gary doesnt mind Although Gary would preffer for neither He or Mike be at the test. He wants this as unbiased as possible.

I was thinking of how the test can be done easiest, there are two input slots on a marqee so at least the vims can be left in the Projector and only the neck boards would need to be changed switching inputs on the marquee. Also we could test each modded VIM to to each modded VNB's .

A list of things to look for need to be compiled.

1) Bandwidth capability of fully resolving 1080p at different scan rates.
2) look for any increase in shadow detail with no gamma adjustments being added.
3) Colors ,how realistic and natural are they after a quick greyscale adjustment using Tims method on his website. I find this is a quick and easy way to get a good temporary grey scale before an intensive adjustment.

now lets add what others think we should look for.


I really wish i could get away to do this but unless i do some major planning it will be difficult. If it was held here at my place it's only 10 minuts from my home and i can shoot back and forth easily.

Also i think this should be done on a neutral parties machine like mine.
I do not know either party personaly except for a few emails to each asking about thier mods.

No offence Mike but Gary is willing to send a set with out himself being here. I know since he was the one who wanted the shootout to begin with you believe the challenge to come to you. But to me its not a neutral site or a neutral person if it comes to you.

So for this to happen it would have to be at my place on my projector.

What does everyone think? Lets make this Happen.


Athansios

Off to dinner at My sisters, i'll check back later.

Athanasios

See my last post in the Hi Rez thread. BTW. It is nothing to pull VIMS. The RGB cables need to be disconnected and reconnected. Inserting two vims at once doesn't obviate the need to do this.

Ok This could be it!!!!

Mike agrees i should get the boards but bring them down to him..one problem It is almost impossible for me to get away to go anywhere. Not only do I own my own Restaurant but i am also the main cook and its next to impossible for me to get away

:confused:


So two things can happen.

Mike sends me a set of boards to do the blind test. once i set up each set of boards we can arrange for a panel to come here and do the evaluations.

Or mike can come up here with a set and he can assist me in setting up the boards if Gary doesnt mind Although Gary would preffer for neither He or Mike be at the test. He wants this as unbiased as possible

OK, let me see If I'm following this so far. You want to get involved in this, and because you own a restaurant and is the main cook, you have to stay in your area... Therefore, the ONLY two options is that I send you a set of boards to so that you can also arrange for a panel to come to you there and do the evaluation.

Or, I could come there where you are, and that way I can also assist in things.

How am I going so far?

And of course, that depends on Gary's approval, because he prefers that neither one of us are present... right?


I was thinking of how the test can be done easiest, there are two input slots on a marqee so at least the vims can be left in the Projector and only the neck boards would need to be changed switching inputs on the marquee. Also we could test each modded VIM to to each modded VNB's .

A list of things to look for need to be compiled.

1) Bandwidth capability of fully resolving 1080p at different scan rates.
2) look for any increase in shadow detail with no gamma adjustments being added.
3) Colors ,how realistic and natural are they after a quick greyscale adjustment using Tims method on his website. I find this is a quick and easy way to get a good temporary grey scale before an intensive adjustment.

now lets add what others think we should look for

And now we have your ideas and an opportunity for others to post their ideas as well... question... do i have any say in this, or did anything I've said about this in the other thread get considered?


I really wish i could get away to do this but unless i do some major planning it will be difficult. If it was held here at my place it's only 10 minuts from my home and i can shoot back and forth easily

I would have liked that one too.


Also i think this should be done on a neutral parties machine like mine. I do not know either party personaly except for a few emails to each asking about thier mods

I agree, however...


No offence Mike but Gary is willing to send a set with out himself being here. I know since he was the one who wanted the shootout to begin with you believe the challenge to come to you. But to me its not a neutral site or a neutral person if it comes to you

Ok, we're now acknowledging who wanted this shootout- that's good. And you think my shop or projector is not neutral. Well, if we were to get others to handle things for both boards on my projector, things still would not be neutral? And what condition is your projector, because a 8000 would not qualify for this. And I found no where in this post that you mentioned the condition of the tubes and your experience making things happen.


So for this to happen it would have to be at my place on my projector

How about this. For this to happen, I would need to be Involved, and it would need to happen here. And I've made that clear several times on the other thread.

Yes mike you definitely have a say as what to look for. I also see how i was contradictory in my statements about where it should be done and who should be there. I guess i just got excited about it happening.

If Gary sends me the boards and I can some how find away to get down to you in the next few months then I think we will all be happy. When I first offered to do the shoot out here i wanted it to be in february and some how everyone wanted it sooner so i just went along.

Mid week is easier for me to come down but lets first get other things settled before we decide on a exact date where we can do this. I wish there was another person that Gary could choose as a neutral party, but he chose me , i did not pm him he PM'd me after reading through the threads.

I can understand the distrust among everyone here. This has been a long time debate.

And Mark also is correct at a/b comparison. Maybe we can do both if we get another machine to mikes unless he already has two. Also i know he has hd144 lenses and I was hoping it could be done on a total stock machine, My original thinking was to look at a stock machine, then look at each of the mods and see what an improvement they made over stock then look at each mod against each other.

Well Mike i will Go with what you want and looks like Gary would like me to be the Moderater to make sure its all on the up and up unless there is another person who you both think would be neutral and trust worthy.

This is something that just cant be thrown together and I am sorry if i was being selfish on where and how and all that. I understand I'm not the only one here with a job to work around for this. Sorry once again.

Now lets work out the details.

Athanasios

I just got off the phone with Mark Haflich. And since Gary had asked him to get Involved, we can use his setup for this.

We also discussed using his setup to demo any other boards that Gary would want folk to know about. And Mark said that Gary could come down and stay at his place, or have someone else represent him there.

I'd rather have this on a projector that I know it's condition. That's going to be very important for the finer things. And if there's anyone else local that would want to host this, let us know.

I just got off the phone with Mark Haflich. And since Gary had asked him to get Involved, we can use his setup for this.

We also discussed using his setup to demo any other boards that Gary would want folk to know about. And Mark said that Gary could come down and stay at his place, or have someone else represent him there.

I'd rather have this on a projector that I know it's condition. That's going to be very important for the finer things. And if there's anyone else local that would want to host this, let us know.

That sounds great! I knew we could all come to some kind of an agreement!!

I'll definitely want to make this . hope i can find away.

Athanasios

Athanasios. You have a place to stay. You fly into BWI. I pick you up. Buff/BWI SWA super cheap. Bottom feeder rates. :) I would suggest you fly in on a Fri night and return on Sunday evening. Does this work for your restaurant schedule?

It depends on which weekend it is, Home football games are tough. I'm right by Ralph Willson Stadium and we get slamed those sunday mornings and i like to be there. we'll see, and Thanks for the Offer to hang with ya!

Athanasios

Edit: who knows I might like your 9500LC and end up going home with it ;)

We'll accomodate your schedule. You worked too hard to miss this. Beside Buffalo only has 8 home games. Their season will be finished early. If one of the mods gets beaten as badly as Dallas will be beat Buffalo this week, there will be one very sad modder.

I think nashou66 first post is fair. Ether both parties show or nether show.

From what I am reading it does not look like this will be pulled off fairly so you might as well forget it.

By the way Athansios congrats on your Restaurant. Very cool!!

We'll accomodate your schedule. You worked too hard to miss this. Beside Buffalo only has 8 home games. Their season will be finished early. If one of the mods gets beaten as badly as Dallas will be beat Buffalo this week, there will be one very sad modder.

Yeah Buffalo sucks! we got lucky last week.

Alan Gouger:
I think nashou66 first post is fair. Ether both parties show or nether show.

From what I am reading it does not look like this will be pulled off fairly so you might as well forget it.

By the way Athansios congrats on your Restaurant. Very cool!!

I think it will be fair . As long as Gary and Mike know there is a neutral person to give his honest opinion and make sure no hanky panky is going on it will go ok.

been working at the restaurant since i was 12 now at 41 its getting old but still fun, it keeps me young working with mostly kids.

Athanasios

If I were Gary I wouldn't allow his boards to be evaluated by a neutral person in the presence of and set up by the competition no matter how honest they are. I've done enough audio shootouts and evaluations and tweaking and modding of audio equipment to know how easy it is for reviewers to be swayed by comments or even subtle actions of the demonstrators. Just go to CES or some other audiophile gathering sometime. Also, as the boards may require that settings on the projector may have to be changed to optimize the picture, having only one of the modders there would seem to be unfair.
Gary must really think his boards are far superior to the competition to allow this or has already done the evaluation in his shop and knows there's no comparison in workmanship or picture output. Otherwise he's must be the Crazy Eddie of projectors.

I would like the test to be with out Mike or I present for that matter anyone that has a vested interest in the test. It should be at Athanasios home or another neutral place. Alan would you do it? If anyone knows video it is you. Mike or I could send him a projector as a test bed. I do not care what projector we use as long as we use the same one. I am not asking for anything other than fairness.

I would like the test to be with out Mike or I present for that matter anyone that has a vested interest in the test. It should be at Athanasios home or another neutral place. Alan would you do it? If anyone knows video it is you. Mike or I could send him a projector as a test bed. I do not care what projector we use as long as we use the same one. I am not asking for anything other than fairness.

What happened to sending the boards to Greg. Greg live in this area, he's also the other person that agreed to get involved in this. So if it would make things better for you, do it at Greg's. And that way you would not have to worry about things being fair.

You wanted a shootout, and I'm going to give it to you, but it's not going to be on your terms.

If I were the one to set forth consistent challenges to you for a shootout, i would also be willing to bring it to you. I don't understand how you could want this so bad, but not be willing to make it happen. If you're concerned about 'YOUR' shootout being fair, be present. I can't think of a better way to do this. Or send someone to represent you.

And why you're not mentioning Greg, is really puzzling me. Stay with the plan, send the boards down to Greg, and I'll even let him be the one to swap the boards. And he can even do the gray scale and convergence on my boards.

One other thing who ever dose not supply the projector has the right inspect it after the test for changes.

Can we keep this thread clean? No he said she said here.

Thanks
Gary

One other thing who ever dose not supply the projector has the right inspect it after the test for changes.

Can we keep this thread clean? No he said she said here.

Thanks
Gary

Ok, let me see If I can explain my concerns here.

If you're planning to run 1080P, the projector that will be used would have to be 1080P capable. That means the tubes and setup must be ready for that.

Likewise, there are other things performance related, that the condition of the projector and the way things will be done is very important to bring out the best images.

So with that said, I hope it's now understood why I'm not sending boards off to anyone who may not be able to provide the best for my work.

So this inspecting projectors and whatever is for what reason. we'll both be using the same projector..

I just want to make sure things are up for the test.

Guys I think everyone here knows I want this to happen. Regrettably I do not get to spend much time on the forum. As a result of that I do not know who has an alliance with who. What is the sense if the test is not fair. Athanasios seams like a good choice.

Ok, let me see If I can explain my concerns here.

If you're planning to run 1080P, the projector that will be used would have to be 1080P capable. That means the tubes and setup must be ready for that.

Likewise, there are other things performance related, that the condition of the projector and the way things will be done is very important to bring out the best images.

So with that said, I hope it's now understood why I'm not sending boards off to anyone who may not be able to provide the best for my work.

So this inspecting projectors and whatever is for what reason. we'll both be using the same projector..

I just want to make sure things are up for the test.

Let's take this in steps.

Step 1

Lets decide on a projector. Would you be opposed if I were to send a stock 8500 with new, not rebuilt tubes. 100% stock to the tester of our choice? Since you do not see a need for the inspection request if I supply the projector I will drop the inspection.


Gary

Listen, I dont know why this is so hard to understand mike. its not really to see whos resovles 1080p correctly although this is what we really all would like. The Basic desire of this test is to see how much of an improvement these mods will make to a stock Marqee of any typ, be it an 8000, 8110, 8500AC/LC , 9000, 9500AC/LC. Both of you make this same claim that your boards will bring an 8 inch machine up to 1080p resoving power regaurdless of everything else. I respect Mike because of his respect from everyone else on this forum. and Gary i have not heard or no much from him just a couple post from CZeddie that seem pretty favorable. so i really dont care who has allegance to who i just want to spend my money on a set of mods that will get the most from MY PROJECTOR!! Not some other projector that is not mine! I have a Mrqee 8000 and a 8500 with new tubes(48 hours total on them). I think my two sets should be a great test bed. I dont care if any one comes here or not I'll do it all by myself, unbiased, unswayed and not careing if i hurt someones feeling by determining thier boards are not as good as the others. I have spent alot of time learning all there is to get a great pic from current set up. I think that i have enough knowlegd on how my system looks now and what improvements these mods will make to my set as compared to stock. Gary if you still want me to do a review of your mods compared to my stock i can do that. Then if Mike wants to send me a set of his i can do a review of his also. All i want to know whos mods i want to buy! I dont care who's mods win I just want to come out on top with the best mods for my theater! Peroid! its not rocket science!!

I think Alan is right this looks like its never going to happen.

Athanasios

Let's take this in steps.

Step 1

Lets decide on a projector. Would you be opposed if I were to send a stock 8500 with new, not rebuilt tubes. 100% stock to the tester of our choice? Since you do not see a need for the inspection request if I supply the projector I will drop the inspection.


Gary

That's fine with me!

Food for thought, we have conducted along with several other qualified calibrators side by side shoot outs with digital projectors. In fact a few years ago you would see these threads all over the digital forum. These were done by the best who were well respected. Outcome: they never proved anything other then people pointing out why it was unfair because they should have done this & that. If you take a look a look in he digital forum today you will see these threads have vanished because everyone in those forums knows they are meaningless and prove nothing.
Measuring instrumentation only tells half the story. MP eye sees one thing just as ones ear would be trained for 2 ch music different to the next person and Garys eye will see the same content different and both will inject their preference into the outcome.
We also have one person insisting he be there and the other does not care to be there. This thing is doomed before it gets started. The winner will obviously be the one who shows up. Dont waste your time.

Ok, let me see If I can explain my concerns here.

If you're planning to run 1080P, the projector that will be used would have to be 1080P capable. That means the tubes and setup must be ready for that.

Likewise, there are other things performance related, that the condition of the projector and the way things will be done is very important to bring out the best images.

So with that said, I hope it's now understood why I'm not sending boards off to anyone who may not be able to provide the best for my work.

So this inspecting projectors and whatever is for what reason. we'll both be using the same projector..

I just want to make sure things are up for the test.

That's fine with me!

Outstanding!

Step 2

The place.

I am not sure about Mark do not let me put words in your mouth but I think you are unsure about Athanasios. Would Alan work? If not who else would like to get in the ring.

Thanks

Gary

That's fine with me!

Can we agree that anyone with a vested interest in the test can not attend? With all of the people on the forum I am sure we can find someone to run the test. We both sell boards that the clients install.

Gary

Food for thought, we have conducted along with several other qualified calibrators side by side shoot outs with digital projectors. In fact a few years ago you would see these threads all over the digital forum. These were done by the best who were well respected. Outcome: they never proved anything other then people pointing out why it was unfair because they should have done this & that. If you take a look a look in he digital forum today you will see these threads have vanished because everyone in those forums knows they are meaningless and prove nothing.
Measuring instrumentation only tells half the story. MP eye sees one thing just as ones ear would be trained for 2 ch music different to the next person and Garys eye will see the same content different and both will inject their preference into the outcome.
We also have one person insisting he be there and the other does not care to be there. This thing is doomed before it gets started. The winner will obviously be the one who shows up. Dont waste your time.

I am not sure I agree with all of the above. Company do comparison testing all of the time. Did any of the tests that were doomed have the criteria laid out in advance?

Gary

Here is a thought.
I have three 9500's here that we can test the mods in plus I already have a set of MP's latest mods w/ 03VIM's.
All of the 9500's have the higher performance tubes (one w/ LUG's, 2 w/ LBP03's).
Gary send me your mods, I have a look at them.

Terry

I think Terry's the perfect candidate... impartial... definitely experienced. No question that he'd be able to give each mod a fair shake and either resolve any issues that come up, or adequately desribe the symptoms to the mod provider. Plus he's got a great approach for quantifying results.

I think i said it as simple as can be. These mods are for people who want to simply improve their viewing experiance in their theaters. What that person will be looking at is how thier purchase improved that experiance, thats what it all boils down to.
Most people make purchasing decisions based on either word of mouth from people who have experiance with that product or from advertisments. We here are the inquisitve type who do lots and lots of research before we make a decision. I think most people who have the money to spend on upgrades to there projectors are like me, should i get mods for my 8 inch PJ or spend that money and upgrade to a 9 inch projector. I would love it if there was some one out there with a base 8000 or base 8500 with no frankenyokes or color lenses or any other upgrade tell me that board mods are a great upgrade to do first. I think this is the a perfect oportunity to let people know how board mods will improve a stock projector with some hours alreeady on the tubes since most people who have marquees have had them for some time or bought them with some wear on the tubes. it will tell me nothing for my situation . even though there really no wear on either set i have. I think the most obvious first improvement you can do for a CRT is to put brand new tubes before all else, but many here do not have the skills to dismantal a tube assembly change over the magnetics do the astig adjustments, center and maximize the rster and so on. A simple board swap most can handle easily. I think i rambled on again. hope this made sence.

Athanasios

edit: Just saw terrys post. I agree with clarence he is a perfect canidate as i value his opinion and his knowledge. I think Gary should send a set to Terry.

Athanasios

I agree Athanasios is a good choice but Athanasios, whilst I understand the requirements of a restaurant (3 people in my immediate family are all award winning chefs) if you want to do this, you may need to put aside some time. There's a lot at stake here, the professional credibility of several perceived leaders in mod building for CRT technology.

I do think a criteria for the testing be how well mods handle higher bandwidth signals like 1080P - alot of people buy mods specifically for that reason so doing a comparison of this on all the sets of mods should be a given.

The people who are entering should all have a say in how its going to happen. If consensus can't be reached, the whole exercise will be a waste of time. Though that doesn't mean that there can't be compromises made. But in the end, if everyone agrees on the Ts & Cs at the start, no-one can turn around later and say "but that's not fair"

Frankly, I think that all the entrants should be there. I'm not saying this will happen, but one competitor could easily submit another competitor's mods as their own. There needs to be safeguards put in place to stop this happening.

All the criteria for the basis of the mod-off should be set and agreed upon beforehand. Perhaps all competitors can submit something here?

By the way, Terry is a great idea.

Here is a thought.
I have three 9500's here that we can test the mods in plus I already have a set of MP's latest mods w/ 03VIM's.
All of the 9500's have the higher performance tubes (one w/ LUG's, 2 w/ LBP03's).
Gary send me your mods, I have a look at them.

Terry

Two thumbs Up!

I would love it if there was some one out there with a base 8000 or base 8500 with no frankenyokes or color lenses or any other upgrade tell me that board mods are a great upgrade to do first. I think this is the a perfect oportunity to let people know how board mods will improve a stock projector with some hours alreeady on the tubes since most people who have marquees have had them for some time or bought them with some wear on the tubes.

Athanasios

Do a search for "MP MODS" or "Marquee Mods" and you should find your answer going back for at least 5 years.

Mike an I have agreed on a stock 8500 with new tubes that will supply. Done! Lets move on.

Thanks

Gary

If they were sent here it would be more than me looking at the results. Plus I have two absolutely identical 9500 Ultras at my immediate disposal.

Terry

If they were sent here it would be more than me looking at the results. Plus I have two absolutely identical 9500 Ultras at my immediate disposal.

Terry

You sound like a qualified guy but you have his mods now. Does not work for me.

Sorry

You sound like a qualified guy but you have his mods now. Does not work for me.

Sorry

:confused:

We're just going to be comparing boards. There will be others there to judge what happens. Terry can first put each board set in one projector, then he can swap them. Someone else could do the basic color balance and gray scale.


He offers the best solution for this, because he has two marquees that are already 1080P capable. And I would not agree to anything less.

He "has" MP's mods, because that's what this particular customer wanted in those two 9500s that are set to be blended. Terry is more than qualified and has no allegiances to MP or anyone else.

I am a nutraul party. If I can help let me know.

I am a neutral party. If I can help let me know.

You could do it!!! I could send you the stock 8500 with new tubes as Mike and I have already agreed on.

Mike does this work for you.

Gary

Plus, if you can agree to do it at Terry's, there will
be a colorimeter available to set greyscale, several
1080P sources, AND - a very neutral and experienced
pro video editor/Rank telecine operator could probably
be enlisted as a evaluator....John, interested??)
G

I also have all the needed instruments for measurements and have 1080p from both BD and HD DVD and several VPs, Crystalio & Lumagen.

I have never seen a projector or mod from ether party.

I still say this is a waist of time. No matter how careful this goes someone will always say it was not fair and list the reasons and at the end the owners of the mods will say you were right but it was fun anyway. Seams like a lot of work just to satisfy a few chest pounders who of course do not have to do anything but sit and post.

Mike does this work for you.

Gary

Not really. It's nice to know that Alan has certain things in place, but what's more important for me is the experience needed to setup that 8500 for performance. I've mentioned that earlier. That's my biggest concern. Not sure why it's not a concern of yours, have you forgot we're also doing 1920x1080P @ 72hz?

I can output 1080p 72 with my CII. I am confident I can handle this. Or pick a neutral party who does not own ether of your works.

I still say this is a waist of time. No matter how careful this goes someone will always say it was not fair and list the reasons and at the end the owners of the mods will say you were right but it was fun anyway. Seams like a lot of work just to satisfy a few chest pounders who of course do not have to do anything but sit and post.

I'm beginning to agree with you here Alan. You've presented some good points on this. And hopefully, it will not get anymore complicated than what is, because it's already giving me a headache trying to keep up with it.

Not sure why Terry would not be the best way to do this. He and so many others can put so much together down there, and If Gary wants, he can have someone present to check everything out.

Simple the fact that there's more than one Marquee there, to include that regardless of what may appear to be suspect, they are swapping the boards in the same projector as well. So they can do things both ways.

And they have what it takes to run the test that we'll need, to include 1080P 72hz.

Not really. It's nice to know that Alan has certain things in place, but what's more important for me is the experience needed to setup that 8500 for performance. I've mentioned that earlier. That's my biggest concern. Not sure why it's not a concern of yours, have you forgot we're also doing 1920x1080P @ 72hz?


Setup is a concern. I am sure Alan can set one up if not Jason can. We will both be on the same projector. I did not forget about 1080P We do it all the time. So yes or no for Alan?

I'm beginning to agree with you here Alan. You've presented some good points on this. And hopefully, it will not get anymore complicated than what is, because it's already giving me a headache trying to keep up with it.

Not sure why Terry would not be the best way to do this. He and so many others can put so much together down there, and If Gary wants, he can have someone present to check everything out.

Simple the fact that there's more than one Marquee there, to include that regardless of what may appear to be suspect, they are swapping the boards in the same projector as well. So they can do things both ways.

And they have what it takes to run the test that we'll need, to include 1080P 72hz.


Terry is a good choice but in my mind he has a working relationship with you on the mod side and Tim on the blending and mod side.

Tim, if I am wrong here Sorry.

Terry it is nothing personal.

It dose not work for me.

Sorry

Setup is a concern. I am sure Alan can set one up if not Jason can. We will both be on the same projector. I did not forget about 1080P We do it all the time. So yes or no for Alan?

Again, the key work here is "Experience" for which I doubt that neither Alan or Jason has any of it when it comes to a setting up a marquee for 1080P. At least not from my knowledge.

The only reason i would want to be there is to make sure all things are as they should be for the performance level that we're need for this.

Again, and for the last time. I'll need to have certain things in place...

While Terry is a top notch CRT tech and great guy, he has known Mike for a long time. You can't blame Gary for having reservations. Alan seems like the most neutral/ best choice to me.

Alan is fine for me too, and his location is great too. Somewhere in the good ole USA!!!;)

Athanasios

I just want this done, Alan where are you located? If its close i can come buy and help set up the marqee. I have set up and reset up mine many many times .

Athanasios

While Terry is a top notch CRT tech and great guy, he has known Mike for a long time. You can't blame Gary for having reservations. Alan seems like the most neutral/ best choice to me.

Well Phil, do you have any idea how long Gary and Alan has known each other?

The question isn't who knows who. It's who's the best person or place to make this happen.

Again, and I'm saying this for the last time. I need to have someone with the EXPERIENCE of setting up a Marquee for 1920x1080P, and can also tune it up to do 1080P @ 72hz. This is very critical for the test.

Hey guys, I've proven many times I can push the envelope and make a Marquee resolve the higher bandwidth. This has been confirmed by the chief engineer at VDC, as well as a former engineer of Christie/Electrohome. So there's really no need for me to prove anything here. Which mods are the best.. I care less. At this point, things with CRT are slowing down. So much so, that it's almost senseless to be doing this. A better time for it would have been years ago, but now..:rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm not going to be spending a lot of time on this thread going back and forth. And at this point, this would have to be real simple for me. I'm getting closer to being busier. I'm also gearing up to bringing my mods back on line after the October meet (I'll know for sure tomorrow). I think we now have what we need to make that happen. So I'll have to start preparations for that as well. I've taking on another operation in the mid west's repairs. So I have to get busy and get the mods over to Tim.

Now, what happened with the boards going to Greg. do you not trust Greg? What's the deal there, and why you're not trying to send the boards to him? It would be much easier to send the boards to Greg than to ship out a projector and wait for things to come together with it.

Let's do this. let's make it happen, and it needs to happen soon..

This makes no sence to me Mike, not trying to be dis-respectfull but just objective. you said this:

Again, and I'm saying this for the last time. I need to have someone with the EXPERIENCE of setting up a Marquee for 1920x1080P, and can also tune it up to do 1080P @ 72hz. This is very critical for the test.


When you sell a set of boards do you know for sure the person your selling to has the experience and know-how of how to tweek the PJ for your mods? On the same note your not there to do it for them. That is what this shoot out should also be about. How the mods are for the end user who most likley is the one setting up there own Projector. We all know how well your mods are on a top notch set up. thsi should be about the average set up for some one who wants to do 1080p on a 8 inch projector.

Its like when i make a meal for a customer here. They may order it it one way and i know it wont be as good as if they ordered it the way i intended it to be made. I wish i could go out to the table and say sorry folks if you dont order it the way i want it to be made you cant have it.

I dont have that luxury because i need their buisness.

just my thoughts. no hard feelings just trying to understand...

Athanasios

When you sell a set of boards do you know for sure the person your selling to has the experience and know-how of how to tweek the PJ for your mods?[QUOTE]

Is this similar to GM or Ford or any other car manufacturers, being there at the dealership to make sure their car performs to what has been already confirmed by the industry?


[QUOTE]On the same note your not there to do it for them. That is what this shoot out should also be about. How the mods are for the end user who most likley is the one setting up there own Projector

You got me mixed up with Gary. I've been doing this for over 5 years with many testimonies. And for the three blend systems out there that has my mods being used in them, do you think they need this shootout. And if you're going to be the only person there, how would that help the masses that you speak of?


We all know how well your mods are on a top notch set up. thsi should be about the average set up for some one who wants to do 1080p on a 8 inch projector

Hey, my mods have been confirmed over the years by some of the best. And they have also been confirmed by an engineer of Christie and VDC. So do you still think I need this shootout?


Its like when i make a meal for a customer here. They may order it it one way and i know it wont be as good as if they ordered it the way i intended it to be made. I wish i could go out to the table and say sorry folks if you dont order it the way i want it to be made you cant have it.

I dont have that luxury because i need their buisness.

just my thoughts. no hard feelings just trying to understand...

Athanasios

Not sure why you continue to ask me the same questions over again. Especially when the questions you keep asking has already been answered many times, and by many on this forum.

It's Gary that needs to prove what he's doing. Not me!

This makes no sence to me Mike, not trying to be dis-respectfull but just objective. you said this

"Again, and I'm saying this for the last time. I need to have someone with the EXPERIENCE of setting up a Marquee for 1920x1080P, and can also tune it up to do 1080P @ 72hz. This is very critical for the test"

Don't let it bother you. It may not make sense to a lot of people.

Athanasios we are in Rochester NY!!

Guys instead of rushing into this I would wait for a better time in the future where something may come up with a better opportunity for everyone when it is not rushed. Im sure that opportunity will come along. In the meantime we have two very good people with a solid reputation offering service. I think Mike is more known for being in the mod business while Hi Rez offers mods but I do not think they have an issue with me saying it is not their main business as they offer other services.
Go with who ever you feel comfortable with.

I still say can this unless its held at Athanasios and theres good food:)

by the way I was just thinking to myself..what the help am I doing in this thread, sorry guys for being so boisterous :)

Mikey

I agree, that in a lot of ways, Terry is the best choice. He can do a top notch job of setting the PJs up after the mod boards are installed. I'm not sure how Alan or Athanasios would handle that. But you can't blame Gary for being uncomfortable with that arrangement.

But really , for an impartial shootout, I don't think that you or Gary should have ANY input on who does or doesn't do the shootout. What makes you or Gary think you should be part of that decision?

I vote for Alan. I leave it up to him to find someone qualified and neutral to set them up, someone that hopefully both you and Gary agree upon (that part may be impossible).

Mikey

I agree, that in a lot of ways, Terry is the best choice. He can do a top notch job of setting the PJs up after the mod boards are installed. I'm not sure how Alan or Athanasios would handle that. But you can't blame Gary for being uncomfortable with that arrangement.

But really , for an impartial shootout, I don't think that you or Gary should have ANY input on who does or doesn't do the shootout. What makes you or Gary think you should be part of that decision?

I vote for Alan. I leave it up to him to find someone qualified and neutral to set them up, someone that hopefully both you and Gary agree upon (that part may be impossible).

Man Phil, when you're not in your sheriff mode. You can really bring some good stuff to the threads..;)

Yes, certain things needs to be in place for this to happen correctly, and it would require a certain skill level as well.

At this point in time with CRT, does it make sense to call a town meeting and make this a big event event?

Hey, If I were Gary (really needing to prove something). I would hop on a plane and make this happen quickly. I don't think this is going to happen without the two us being present. Because, and as Alan had pointed out, there's going to be too much debate and discussions afterwards, that would make the whole thing a waste of time.

To me, it's real simple. bring the boards down. that way we both would be present, and for the few others also present and involved, the results would be clear, because both parties are also there -what you think? (take off your sheriff hat and guns first..:D)

I got impatient and spent the ten bucks;)

To me, it's real simple. bring the boards down. that way we both would be present, and for the few others also present and involved, the results would be clear, because both parties are also there -what you think? (take off your sheriff hat and guns first..:D)Mikey,

You know, after further thought, I think I agree with you! I don't know if that's the best way, but it really seems to be the simplest and most likely way to make this happen. If Gary is present he can control his own fate, as can you. The money Gary would have spent shipping a PJ somewhere can be used for a plane ticket instead. http://curtpalme.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_thumbup.gif

If it's going to be done this way, maybe Terry becomes the best choice. With Gary present, he can make sure his boards are getting equal treatment.

Darn, I was planing on adding my Dwin HD700 to the lineup & give you guys a run for the money :)

I got impatient and spent the ten bucks;)

:(...sniff

Terry is a good choice but in my mind he has a working relationship with you on the mod side and Tim on the blending and mod side.

Tim, if I am wrong here Sorry.

Terry it is nothing personal.

It dose not work for me.

Sorry

You are mistaken. I have no involvement with Terry; those projectors belong to his Dallas customer, who ordered MP mods, so Terry has no bias either way.

Also The customer got his blend unit from e-bay dirt cheap. So tim had no involvement with the blend unit.


Athanasios

Yes, I would have to say you are missing a nice
opportunity not to take Terry up on the offer.
I have known him for over 15 years, and I can
assure you he will do exactly what he says he will do,
and will report exactly what is what - no sugar coating
and no bias. If you're sensitive then better bring a hanky!
G

Personally i like the Terry idea too, he has always told things the way it is. He also knows how to set the projector up to its full potential and has the equipment to any tests needed. Just my 2 cents. Carry on...

OK, If no one else is acceptable and Gary is willing to provide the projector I'll do it if jtnfoley will participate. I'm an hour from Gary and jtnfoley is ten minutes from me. I stand nothing to lose or gain from this as I'm a AmPro guy.
I can table mount it in my shop and set it up on a 120" 4:3 screen if needed.
My TP generator will only go to 1080P 48Hz so we'll have to figure out something for a source to meet the 1080P 72Hz requirement. I have the equipment to grayscale it. I have good setup skills and John has good eyes.
This way Gary won't have to spend a ton of money packing and shipping the projector and boards and no chance of shipping damage. I'm sure Mike would trust me with a set of his boards. I have a good camera for taking screen shots and my screen shots are getting pretty good. Now the down side.
I have a full time job and a family so this would take at least a week of nights to pull off perhaps more if I'm providing screen shots and doing requests. Should you decide to go this route, I have this Monday off and could pick up the projector first thing in the morning. As I plan on spending the day with my children, I will not begin to set it up till Tuesday night.
I have only one condition. Whatever the outcome, when it's done it's done. This sublect can never come up again. No "I'll be back" it's done. Deal???

hmmm? You need a marquee set up guy , have you any experience with Marquee's? it sounds like exactly what i wanted to do, and now that i know Alan lives an hour away he could be here too. And anyone else who wants to come for a showing. But it looks like i may have got myself black listed :( I can do the install and set up,Alan will do the viewing and take notes.

And like i said before I'll buy the mods that i like best after its all done !!!!!

Athanasios

Darn, I was planing on adding my Dwin HD700 to the lineup & give you guys a run for the money :)I still think with your position in the industry that you would have been the most credible host. It just didn't seem like we were ever going to get both Mike and Gary to agree on you. Too bad...

Athanasios I think you would have been a credible host too.

Where's Gary? I'm beginning to think everyone that predicted the shootout will never happen is right. It seems the wheels are falling off this deal and it's quickly losing momentum.

Athanasios I think you would have been a credible host too.


I think so too, i just dont know what to do. I like the idea of neither moder to be present. i see no need for it. i have almost got to the point of just buying a set from each and doing it myself then selling them both and going digital! !!:eek::eek::eek:

there! I said the D word!! :mad:;):D

Athanasios

If Terry has a bias it is towards G-90's.

If Terry has a bias it is towards G-90's.

thats true!

Damon any luck with finding frankenyoke's. I havnt had time to rewind the barco coil yet.

Athanasios

I still think with your position in the industry that you would have been the most credible host. It just didn't seem like we were ever going to get both Mike and Gary to agree on you. Too bad...

Athanasios I think you would have been a credible host too.

Where's Gary? I'm beginning to think everyone that predicted the shootout will never happen is right. It seems the wheels are falling off this deal and it's quickly losing momentum.

Just trying not to waste bandwidth here. When it settles down I will post my thoughts.

OK, If no one else is acceptable and Gary is willing to provide the projector I'll do it if jtnfoley will participate. I'm an hour from Gary and jtnfoley is ten minutes from me. I stand nothing to lose or gain from this as I'm a AmPro guy.
I can table mount it in my shop and set it up on a 120" 4:3 screen if needed.
My TP generator will only go to 1080P 48Hz so we'll have to figure out something for a source to meet the 1080P 72Hz requirement. I have the equipment to grayscale it. I have good setup skills and John has good eyes.
This way Gary won't have to spend a ton of money packing and shipping the projector and boards and no chance of shipping damage. I'm sure Mike would trust me with a set of his boards. I have a good camera for taking screen shots and my screen shots are getting pretty good. Now the down side.
I have a full time job and a family so this would take at least a week of nights to pull off perhaps more if I'm providing screen shots and doing requests. Should you decide to go this route, I have this Monday off and could pick up the projector first thing in the morning. As I plan on spending the day with my children, I will not begin to set it up till Tuesday night.
I have only one condition. Whatever the outcome, when it's done it's done. This sublect can never come up again. No "I'll be back" it's done. Deal???

You work for me.

I think you could be fair. You ripped a new one last time.

I would suggest we sends our mods to Allan to mark them A/B and he will ship them to you blind. When the test is done you can post the winning letter and he can post who it belongs to.

You work for me.

I think you could be fair. You ripped a new one last time.

I would suggest we sends our mods to Allan to mark them A/B and he will ship them to you blind. When the test is done you can post the winning letter and he can post who it belongs to.

That is agreat idea. Only Alan will Know whos boards are whos and this way they wont get mixed up. I dont think there have been any pics of eithers boards on the forum. Mike I think this is the fairest way so far the only concern i have have for both mods is how well stefeul can do a mechanical set up of the projector. Unles it is pre set up for his screen and given all the info for it. But i guess most projectors use the same principles for set up so i guess this is fair.

I think this is a great idea to use even if stefuel is not the one who ends up with the a/b marked boards.

Athansios

It would still seem tainted with stefuel driving to one of the mods to pick up a suitable projector.

And the other mod insisting on testing on a projector that he personally knows is set up properly.

Not going to happen with the constraints and opportunity for bias.

It would still seem tainted with stefuel driving to one of the mods to pick up a suitable projector.

And the other mod insisting on testing on a projector that he personally knows is set up properly.

Not going to happen with the constraints and opportunity for bias.

Well My set is is ready to go . Alan can still get the boards mark them and come down here with them,he is only an hour from me. he can watch the whole process of what i'm doing . I have two machines i can do the a/b and also a swap of boards in the same machines. Over all the final viewing Image is what counts. I know what my machines look like now unmodded and will be able to see the difrences no matter how subtle they are, with out any vendor telling me where to look and what to look for coloring my own opinion with their own talking points. This as I have said before Should be a shoot out deciding whos mods improve ones projected image overall. In the process we will seee hwat areas one set of boards does better and where they do worse compared to stock and each other.

Athansios

Terry is a good choice but in my mind he has a working relationship with you on the mod side and Tim on the blending and mod side.

Tim, if I am wrong here Sorry.

Terry it is nothing personal.

It dose not work for me.

Sorry

Gary,
I may have a working relationship w/ MP because IMO the Marquee should NOT be sold without mods. And honestly I thought his mods were the onle "real" mods in town.
Now along you come, saying you have mods that should perform. So I am curious to see your mods in action and see if they can further improve on some of the deficiencies in the Marquee design. If they can I will start to recommend your mods and not MP's.

But I will guarantee one thing, the test's will be preformed in a non partial manner.

Sorry, but if the king isn't wearing clothes, I'll tell him he's naked. That's me and comes from my schooling and years of working as an electrical engineer.

Gary, I am the best candidate YOU have to do the testing, have the experience to set the PJ's up correctly as well as two identical 9500LC w/ new high performance tubes (smaller apature guns that the stock P19LCP09's). I also don't require any input from the candidates on their mods unless there are some adjustments that need to be made in their mods that I am not familiar with.

But if you think that I would be partial to MP, then no matter what I report, you will play the "partial card"

Terry

If Terry has a bias it is towards G-90's.

YUP.......lol
But I also like heavily modded erector sets........I mean 9500's on smaller screens to.
Testing a near new 1209S (Runco 1101) w/ LUG's and color filtered CElements today to see if I like it.....might be a new candidate

Terry

Since I won't be there, I think that it's more or less irrelevant WHERE the test is done, it's HOW it's done. To me it's done like this:

a) Two identical projectors in minty shape driven by the same source w/ an active RGB splitter.
b) Install mods and either have an independent tweaker set them both up in front of a number of spectators using a common source
or
Have each modder set up his own set in front of spectators.

Do the shootout.

THEN...

Swap out the mods between sets and do the shootout again. That will eliminate any differences between set chassis (outside of the modded boards), and the better mod/picture should move to the other set as well. The spectators will determine the winner.

You are mistaken. I have no involvement with Terry; those projectors belong to his Dallas customer, who ordered MP mods, so Terry has no bias either way.

Tim, I am sorry I thought the blending thing was yours and he ordered the mods from you Mikes site says to order from you. Again Sorry!!!

Since I won't be there, I think that it's more or less irrelevant WHERE the test is done, it's HOW it's done. To me it's done like this:

a) Two identical projectors in minty shape driven by the same source w/ an active RGB splitter.
b) Install mods and either have an independent tweaker set them both up in front of a number of spectators using a common source
or
Have each modder set up his own set in front of spectators.

Do the shootout.

THEN...

Swap out the mods between sets and do the shootout again. That will eliminate any differences between set chassis (outside of the modded boards), and the better mod/picture should move to the other set as well. The spectators will determine the winner.

I do agree that two projectors are better but Mike wanted one so I gave in to that. I am willing to supply two with new tubes. I will not give into Mike or I or our people being at the shootout. It should be someone that knows how to set up a projector and has never used anyone's mods. I will not give into not having an A/B blind test. If Mike can not go with these two sensible things I guess we will not have a shoot out.

Ok then two projectors. Mikes and gary each send boards to a someone like say Alan. he marks each set of boards A and B. Gary sends two minty tubed Projectors for the shootout to somewhere thats it will be set up by a person who knows how to set up a Ehome. Images are evaluated, a set of boards is picked. And the person who labled the board A and B ,we'll call him the Auditor, post on the site all the info about the shootout and the boards that made the best image overall in actual viewing material. Now we just have to find some one close to Gary so he doesnt pay a lot for shipping two projectors unless he doesnt mind.

Now the two vendors have to agree to shipping a set of boards to an Auditor.

I say Curt Palme could be another choice and i'm sure he can actually put together two minty Marquees with out the need for gary to send.

Athanasios

It should be someone that knows how to set up a projector and has never used anyone's mods.

Sorry Gary, but that is rediculous. You are clearly paranoid that Mike will stack the deck by me or anyone he knows doing the shootout.

If your stuff works and it works better than Mikes, I will recommend it to customers and buy and install it myself. I am looking for the best for my customers. What would be the sense in me judging MP's stuff as better if yours is?? What do I gain........NOTHING. I am the consumer not a vested interest in MP or his business. I pay for the stuff just like everyone else.

Lets get WAY beyond this shootout paranoia.

If you feel so confident that your mods are good and will be accepted as a price performance addition to the Marquee line, send me your mods and let me have a look at them. I'm interested in seeing what they will do.

If you like I won't post any results anywhere no matter which is better except to you. Hows that for fair.

I offer the same thing to GregE and his Barco and Marquee mods.

Terry

Terry

Ok then two projectors. Mikes and gary each send boards to a someone like say Alan. he marks each set of boards A and B. Gary sends two minty tubed Projectors for the shootout to somewhere thats it will be set up by a person who knows how to set up a Ehome. Images are evaluated, a set of boards is picked. And the person who labled the board A and B ,we'll call him the Auditor, post on the site all the info about the shootout and the boards that made the best image overall in actual viewing material. Now we just have to find some one close to Gary so he doesnt pay a lot for shipping two projectors unless he doesnt mind.

Now the two vendors have to agree to shipping a set of boards to an Auditor.

I say Curt Palme could be another choice and i'm sure he can actually put together two minty Marquees with out the need for gary to send.

Athanasios

I agree on the auditor.

Sorry Gary, but that is rediculous. You are clearly paranoid that Mike will stack the deck by me or anyone he knows doing the shootout.

If your stuff works and it works better than Mikes, I will recommend it to customers and buy and install it myself. I am looking for the best for my customers. What would be the sense in me judging MP's stuff as better if yours is?? What do I gain........NOTHING. I am the consumer not a vested interest in MP or his business. I pay for the stuff just like everyone else.

Lets get WAY beyond this shootout paranoia.

If you feel so confident that your mods are good and will be accepted as a price performance addition to the Marquee line, send me your mods and let me have a look at them. I'm interested in seeing what they will do.

If you like I won't post any results anywhere no matter which is better except to you. Hows that for fair.

I offer the same thing to GregE and his Barco and Marquee mods.

Terry

Terry


I Trust Terry. Gary you should really consider him as the best solution. I also Agree mike and Gary should not be there. Also the boards have to be first sent to an auditor for marking A and B. that is the best way.

Athanasios

Sorry Gary, but that is rediculous. You are clearly paranoid that Mike will stack the deck by me or anyone he knows doing the shootout.

If your stuff works and it works better than Mikes, I will recommend it to customers and buy and install it myself. I am looking for the best for my customers. What would be the sense in me judging MP's stuff as better if yours is?? What do I gain........NOTHING. I am the consumer not a vested interest in MP or his business. I pay for the stuff just like everyone else.

Lets get WAY beyond this shootout paranoia.

If you feel so confident that your mods are good and will be accepted as a price performance addition to the Marquee line, send me your mods and let me have a look at them. I'm interested in seeing what they will do.

If you like I won't post any results anywhere no matter which is better except to you. Hows that for fair.

I offer the same thing to GregE and his Barco and Marquee mods.

Terry

Terry

Terry,

I am paranoid. I do agree you are the best man for the job so far from what I have read and the things that you have posted in the past. That being said it will not be a blind test because you have used his mods. A blind test is not negotiable with me. Sorry!! I hope you can see my point here.

Terry,

I am paranoid. I do agree you are the best man for the job so far from what I have read and the things that you have posted in the past. That being said it will not be a blind test because you have used his mods. A blind test is not negotiable with me. Sorry!! I hope you can see my point here.

I forgot that Terry has seen mikes boards, Duh:confused:on my part. So even if sent to be marked by an auditor he would know what to look for in mikes boards.

This is very difficult if both do not agree on one person to send the final audited boards to. But To be Honest and not trying to get the Job since i know who much time it takes to set up a nice pic from a marquee. Id rather it be someone else now after i have had time to dwell on the whole hosting thing, BUT it seams like I could be a good alterantive choice. I am not a tech like Terry but i think i can set up a marquee fairly well. Just Ask Craig Rounds(CIR-Engeneering)a calibrator who did my set. He said i did the mechanical set up almost dead on except the stig adjustment i left that for him. So my offer still stands.

Send boards to Alan, he brings them to me. And it will get done. its that simple i have no connections to anyone here except from the forum interaction and help i have gotten with the set up of my Marqee.

Thanks

Athansios

Gary,
Sorry but I cannot see your point at all.
As I said you should send me your mods regardless of the shootout as I use and recommend mods to Marquee owners ALL the time.....based on performance.
MP sent me his mods and all future updates when they came out to determine if they worked and continued to improve in performance. He also sent us some of the early Barco mods which at the time we found issues with and reported that back to him.

BTW, my approach is much more scientific than a double blind test.

I've seen this sort of thing before where someone offers something they "think" has an improvement in picture quality, but when challanged with the rigors of scientific testing they back down. That IMO is what is happening here.

With MP's mods (which I currently offer to all my Marquee customers and frankly won't sell a 9500 without them as the Marquee needs video chain improvement) I can see and measure the differences in performance. It is very quantified through scientific methods.

SO with that said, let me say here and now that unless you can send me your mods to test and evaluate (even if privately), I will consider this matter of a shootout closed and that you in don't have anything to offer that I can use or recommend.

Terry

I swear, a guy offers to help out and basically gets told "I don't know you, you sound like you're the best guy for the job, but I don't think that you can be impartial". So he's seen Mike's boards. Big deal. From a consumer's (i.e. - A CUSTOMER'S) vantage point, either your stuff works as advertised or it doesn't. If your product requires such a precise calibration in order to perform as you think it should, then you're going to NEED people like Terry in order to make your customers happy. DIYers need not apply.

Gary, youl could do MUCH worse than using some like Terry.
If your mods are actually up to scratch and perform well, Terry will say so. He's honest and trustworthy. I challenge anyone here to say a bad word about him - especially his professionalism.
It says alot to me that you wouldn’t wholeheartedly embrace his offer. I believe him when he says that he would sell your mods if he liked them.

It was reading posts from guys like Terry that convinced me to get into CRT FP technology as a hobby.

I swear, a guy offers to help out and basically gets told "I don't know you, you sound like you're the best guy for the job, but I don't think that you can be impartial". So he's seen Mike's boards. Big deal. From a consumer's (i.e. - A CUSTOMER'S) vantage point, either your stuff works as advertised or it doesn't. If your product requires such a precise calibration in order to perform as you think it should, then you're going to NEED people like Terry in order to make your customers happy. DIYers need not apply.

Dose anyone care about a non biased test other than me?

Gary,
Sorry but I cannot see your point at all.
As I said you should send me your mods regardless of the shootout as I use and recommend mods to Marquee owners ALL the time.....based on performance.
MP sent me his mods and all future updates when they came out to determine if they worked and continued to improve in performance. He also sent us some of the early Barco mods which at the time we found issues with and reported that back to him.

BTW, my approach is much more scientific than a double blind test.

I've seen this sort of thing before where someone offers something they "think" has an improvement in picture quality, but when challanged with the rigors of scientific testing they back down. That IMO is what is happening here.

With MP's mods (which I currently offer to all my Marquee customers and frankly won't sell a 9500 without them as the Marquee needs video chain improvement) I can see and measure the differences in performance. It is very quantified through scientific methods.

SO with that said, let me say here and now that unless you can send me your mods to test and evaluate (even if privately), I will consider this matter of a shootout closed and that you in don't have anything to offer that I can use or recommend.

Terry

How about we do the test at stefuel's place. He keeps the test blind. I will pay your airfare to come out and be the setup person and be the judge as long as you do not know who's mods you are looking at.

Gary

Gary,

if you want to show what you have, then go ahead and show it. A blind test is fine, but it requires two calibrated projectors and not only quickly looked over projektors. It also requires unmodifed projectors to verify that any of the mods is really improving somthing. You either do it right or you just have a few opinions more instead of results.

You say you have a better picture ? Take a scope and prove the basics. Bandwith, Resolution, SNR and Rise Times are nothing that can only be seen after a couple video scenes and some beer. All it takes is a scope and someone who knows how to use it.

Take a highres camera, make screenshots and prove your results. You want to know how your colors are ? Then measure them along with grascale tracking.

Andreas

Gary,

if you want to show what you have, then go ahead and show it. A blind test is fine, but it requires two calibrated projectors and not only quickly looked over projektors. It also requires unmodifed projectors to verify that any of the mods is really improving somthing. You either do it right or you just have a few opinions more instead of results.

You say you have a better picture ? Take a scope and prove the basics. Bandwith, Resolution, SNR and Rise Times are nothing that can only be seen after a couple video scenes and some beer. All it takes is a scope and someone who knows how to use it.

Take a highres camera, make screenshots and prove your results. You want to know how your colors are ? Then measure them along with grascale tracking.

Andreas


Why didnt I think to use one of the ten scopes that we have around here or one of my other mistakes was to have the sweeper do my testing instead of one of our engineers. If I had only done that!!!!! DUMB on my part. I could send in screen shots with out any other information like it has been done so many times here.

My setup skills, sorry this is as good as it gets. My second AmPro 4600 pre modded.

Gary,

Why don't you show some measuments over a stock Marquee... oscilloscope traces, BW measurements, etc.

I think those should be measurable:

- Noise floor at black, at white (db).
- Plot of a square wave from 0 to 100 IRE at different points of the video chain. -3dB BW using this pattern.
- Jitter on the deflection signals (small time differences across each retrace that would make the picture look slightly defocused or even bloomy).

There are other things to consider in addition to how mods compare in PQ, such as:

- Price
- Availability and time to get them done
- Swap policy (I am sure many if not all CRT owners -myself included- would love to have the modded components sent to them, and then they sent the unmodded parts, so there is no downtime).
- Guarantee on failures

Why didnt I think to use one of the ten scopes that we have around here or one of my other mistakes was to have the sweeper do my testing instead of one of our engineers. If I had only done that!!!!! DUMB on my part. I could send in screen shots with out any other information like it has been done so many times here.

Well, you either can prove your work, or you can make jokes. We talk about elektrical signals here (until we convert them into photons). Usually the engineering approach is to measure them. The marketing approach is to talk.

Engineers have built the projector you want to mod. What does this tell us about your engineers? Nothing. If they know what they did, they can measure it and prove it. If not, well...

Andreas

Well I'll be thrilled to be off the hook but to get this done the offer stands. It still however depends on participation from jtnfoley. Without a second pair of eyes, it's just not worth the effort.

Pre ground rules. No PM's, e-mails or phone calls from the modders. All conversations held in the open forum.

Guy's this has gone too far.

Here's my position on this:

Gary wants a shootout. So Gary has to either send his boards down to Greg, and from there Greg and I can do this on this end.

Gary can bring his boards down and both he and I make this happen.

Or Gary can send them to Terry.

Other thing other than that is NOT going to happen.

Well, you either can prove your work, or you can make jokes. We talk about elektrical signals here (until we convert them into photons). Usually the engineering approach is to measure them. The marketing approach is to talk.

Engineers have built the projector you want to mod. What does this tell us about your engineers? Nothing. If they know what they did, they can measure it and prove it. If not, well...

Andreas

You're wasting your time here. It appears that putting these mods under certain test, is something that's being avoided.

How could we be testing for 1080P and other performance markers, when the suggestions have been to send the boards to someone that is not situated to perform such test. And that's what makes this a joke to me.

And if there is TRULY some mods to contend with, show us some screenshots and scoped bandwidth measurements. And don't forget that smpte pattern.

Surely that should all be quite easy considering the amount of engineers and scope that's "claimed" to be available.

Gary, the shootout means a lot more to you than it does to Mikey. The vast majority of people with modded Marquees have Mikey's mods. You have little if any market penetration, so you have everything to gain. Mikey already dominates the market and only stands to loose market share. If I were you Gary, I'd be doing everything possible to make this shootout happen.

Really Mikey, now that I think about it, you have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. It's like election candidates and debates. If a candidate has a commanding lead in the polls, he won't agree to a debate. If he wins the debate, it's really not going to have much effect on the polls, because he's already leading. If he loses, he just shot himself in the foot.

Mikey I would decline a shootout until someone poses a legitimate threat to your business. At the moment Gary and his mods are a non-factor, so why even acknowledge him as a viable alternative to your product? By simply entertaining the idea of a shootout, you're giving Gary at least a small amount of credibility where previously none existed.

YeeeeHaaaa, I'm off the hook. Have a nice weekend. This is my last post here so good luck with it:D

Chip

Gary, the shootout means a lot more to you than it does to Mikey. The vast majority of people with modded Marquees have Mikey's mods. You have little if any market penetration, so you have everything to gain. Mikey already dominates the market and only stands to loose market share. If I were you Gary, I'd be doing everything possible to make this shootout happen.

Really Mikey, now that I think about it, you have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. It's like election candidates and debates. If a candidate has a commanding lead in the polls, he won't agree to a debate. If he wins the debate, it's really not going to have much effect on the polls, because he's already leading. If he loses, he just shot himself in the foot.

Mikey I would decline a shootout until someone poses a legitimate threat to your business. At the moment Gary and his mods are a non-factor, so why even acknowledge him as a viable alternative to your product? By simply entertaining the idea of a shootout, you're giving Gary at least a small amount of credibility where previously none existed.

:D

ok, here we are on page 4 and I feel like this problem is almost solved, I can just FEEL it :D

I can output 1080p 72 with my CII. I am confident I can handle this. Or pick a neutral party who does not own ether of your works.


Alan, the Crystalio 2 does not do 1080P 72Hz perfectly. there will be a picture
but you will overshot the pixelclock ceiling of 165MHz with the needed porches and syncs. The C2 is very unstable over 150MHz pixelclock.

use a PC graphicscard to do 1080P 72Hz instead, not the Crystalio 2


Michael

Ok this is what we have so far:

1) Gary askes for a shoot out
2)Mike agrees
3)Gary says pick a place and send bourds but niether him or mike should not be present.
4)Mike wants to be present
5)Both then decide Terry is the best for it
6)Gary is paranoid though of terrys supossed ties to Mike so offers to pay for Terry to come to steufel's and do the set up With out gary present
7)Mike still wants it brought down to him and both being present
8) All I want to know is whos boards are better with out having to buy both set and do an evaluation then sell the set i dont want.


Not for what phil said

Gary, the shootout means a lot more to you than it does to Mikey. The vast majority of people with modded Marquees have Mikey's mods. You have little if any market penetration, so you have everything to gain. Mikey already dominates the market and only stands to loose market share. If I were you Gary, I'd be doing everything possible to make this shootout happen.

Really Mikey, now that I think about it, you have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this. It's like election candidates and debates. If a candidate has a commanding lead in the polls, he won't agree to a debate. If he wins the debate, it's really not going to have much effect on the polls, because he's already leading. If he loses, he just shot himself in the foot.

Mikey I would decline a shootout until someone poses a legitimate threat to your business. At the moment Gary and his mods are a non-factor, so why even acknowledge him as a viable alternative to your product? By simply entertaining the idea of a shootout, you're giving Gary at least a small amount of credibility where previously none existed.
__________________
Thanks,

Phil Smith / Dallas, TX
Sony G70

I shouldnt say this but i'm sick of this all!

Gary told me he doesnt care if he ever sells another mod set again! its not about gettting more buisness its just a matter of principle after being attacked about his mods. If he loses then hes fine with it and will move on he doesnt care about the money from what i can tell. he hardly does anymore crt stuff anymore. so looking at it from a buisness mans Point of view and a consumers point of view the compramise of Terry doing the shoot out up here at Stefuel's with two stock new tubed Marquees 8 inch machines, not the 9 inch since we all know it does 1080p better, is the best way.

Mike has been showing his Lowly 8 inch machine in all the screen shots. This is what I want from My set one day. I think this is not hard to agree to Mike and Gary lets just get it done.

Athanasios

Athanasios, don't you think this is a lot of trouble just so you can decide which mods to buy? Projectors shipped here...people flying there... I think your idea of buying both sets, keeping the set you like best and selling the other, is the simplest, cheapest and most likely to happen scenario. You can compare them how you deem fit and report the results how you choose (including not reporting them at all).

Athanasios, don't you think this is a lot of trouble just so you can decide which mods to buy? Projectors shipped here...people flying there... I think your idea of buying both sets, keeping the set you like best and selling the other, is the simplest, cheapest and most likely to happen scenario. You can compare them how you deem fit and report the results how you choose (including not reporting them at all).

I'm begining to think this will be the only option . the whole thing sucks :(
why cant we all just get along and play nice ;) :).

If i do decide to go that route trust me i will deffinitley do my own shoot out and even ask Alan to come down and Check it out.

On Another note i really want to try to make it to kosmans for the blend meet since this is another thing i have planed for the future.

Athanasios

Gary told me he doesnt care if he ever sells another mod set again! its not about gettting more buisness its just a matter of principle after being attacked about his mods

I've asked this several time from you, and you have once to answer it. Show me where I've attacked Gary's or his mods.

Now check these quotes from Gary, and then show me where I've attacked Gary once:

Everyone has an opinion I am glad most of you are loyal to Mike. To find out who has the best mods there needs to be a shootout until that happens you are all guessing. If you want to spend your hard earned cash on a guess that's fine

One last word

SHOOTOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are ready

I must say when you are the perceived king of mods it is a good decision. If the forum members want a shoot out they will let us know


Mike I know you are a good guy you do do a lot for the forum. I am not attacking you in any way shape or form. It is that you claim to have the best mod and you have a lot to friends that say you do, you may or may not but we will never know if we do no shoot it out

Now, here's my reply to the above:

Sorry Gary, but it's always you and Greg that keeps making the who has the best mod claims. I'm the guy that simply would like to have that proven. Am I confident of what I'm doing - absolutely. look at how long this thread has been going before your arrival. And find one time where I've made a post against you, your mods or anything else that you're doing. It was only after you came in and made your slick comments against me.

Also be mindful, that I have NEVER said anything against you or what you're doing, or the way you do anything on this forum. And you know I have history (I also have a ton of emails and PM's from others from you). but it's not professional to ever expose or disclose any dealing with any business on an open forum and it's something that I won't do otherwise. There's some things that I'll not do


Now for the last time, could you stop saying that I've attacked Gary?

And please read back through the thread before you run with waht Gary has been saying to you.



If he loses then hes fine with it and will move on he doesnt care about the money from what i can tell. he hardly does anymore crt stuff anymore

Ok, I'll have to walk away from the keyboard for awhile and adjust those two screws that's holding my head on.................OK, I'm back, and this is still BS.


so looking at it from a buisness mans Point of view and a consumers point of view the compramise of Terry doing the shoot out up here at Stefuel's with two stock new tubed Marquees 8 inch machines, not the 9 inch since we all know it does 1080p better, is the best way

:eek::confused::rolleyes:

Question: do you really think Terry would travel up from Atlanta to Gary's place for this?

Guys!

There could be another way to decide this. Let us hear from all Marquee owners who have obtained MP mods in the last 18 months, and let them rate their satisfaction on a 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 basis, and from HiRez mods users also on the same basis. The most responders times the most points recorded by Dec 31 is the winner. Any questions?

If the real question is, who has the best enhancements Today, then only a double-blind soiree on retubed 9500s will suffice.

How about we do the test at stefuel's place. He keeps the test blind. I will pay your airfare to come out and be the setup person and be the judge as long as you do not know who's mods you are looking at.

Gary

Like I said, unless I can test them here under a controlled condition, I am not interested in flying anywhere to test them. I have what I need here and the time, equipment, proper PJ's and energy to do it.
And since you aren't interested in sending them to me, I guess the only way I will get to test them is happen to do a setup in the future for someone that has them.
Should you change your mind, about sending them to me feel free to contact me at terfer@comcast.net as I doubt I will monitor this thread any longer as it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.


Terry

There is one other option here not discussed (man, this is out of control!)

Send both Mike and Gary's boards to Alan or someone else who labels them A and B. That's it.

Send the board sets to....


GINO!

He's done a killer setup on his blend, his minty sets show no blend line/area and is a neutral party in this. From his screen shots, he knows how to set up the Marquees to the Nth degree. He's worked on his set for 100s (?) of hours.

He writes the report not knowing whose boards are who's.

He sends the boards back to Alan.

Alan unveils whose boards are who's.

Tadum, problem solved!

Gary told me he doesnt care if he ever sells another mod set again! its not about gettting more buisness its just a matter of principle after being attacked about his mods....If he loses then hes fine with it and will move on he doesnt care about the money from what i can tell. he hardly does anymore crt stuff anymore....


Wow....Dejavu. This is almost exactly the same song and dance that I got from Greggie boy....almost a year ago.....at about the same point in trying to setup a shootout.

I'm going to make this statement and let the chips fall where they may (afterall, I'm not even a CRT owner anymore): I bowed out of that situation a year ago with some hurt feelings and a good deal of confusion over what had transpired. I realized after the fact that my effort was not the first, nor would it be the last. However, I think that some of the folks here in their quest for that visual Holy Grail sometimes take Mike for granted. Out of the three individuals who are producing Marquee mods, Mike is the one who is, and HAS been here and on Curts board consistently helping scores of non-customers with their CRT issues and just generally being part of the "CRT family"

I won't hide the fact that I came out of my (likely half-assed) effort at a mod shootout a year ago with a personal opinion that Mike was sort of the board prima dona. Looking back, I think that a good deal of that can be attributed to (1) me getting in over my head, and (2) interpreting Mike's lack of enthusiasm for the shootout as sheer arrogance. For that, I offer Mike my apologies. Seeing similar efforts come and go from the sidelines a few times since my effort has given me a much different perspective.

Should I ever find myself with another Marquee and the financial means with which to invest in mods, Mike will be getting my business. He may come off at times as arrogant, he may not deliver in what you think is a timely manner, but you can't argue with the fact that he's the only one who has consistently been here helping us learn and improve these machines. He's not just popping in from time to time pimping his wares, and he's not afraid to admit that he DOES care if he sells another set of mods.

Mike i Apologize if its sound like i'm calling you out. But i was just tryingto get this doe and guess it wont happen. And to be honest you have been on here alot more than Gary and have helped me out via e-mail on problemns i have had. Its true that it be nice to know hwat his mods do since there have been many testomonials to your mods by many including Gino who many here think is the new god of blending. I can only aspire to reach his set ups limits. gary if i wer you just send the boards to Terry and get this over with . So many here trust and respect Terry. I'm a bit buzzed right now just got back from A Donnas concert in buffalo and had a few pithers of Bass with some friends. Man those girls can rock! and there hot as hell too! but any how form the way it looks since gary has never shown any screen shots and i have not seen any praises of his mods i for one declare mike the winner by shown results and the tetiminials of many. Until there is an catual shoot out i will not listen to gary's demand that we stop buying mods and will put an order to Mike or tim for a set of mods in the comming weeks i am also done with thinking there will ever be a shoot out between any of the three modders. Even though this is unfair to Greg since hes away with persaonal probs right now.

I guess i was just trying to get some passion going and hopeing that one or the other would just say eff it and do a shoot out i underestimated the conviction of each player here and appologize to both. So for now i will enjoy watching movies on my marquee , well temporary marquee stack till i get a set of mods form the guy most of you have gotten them from.....unless i pissed him off and am black listed ;) Just joking . i'm still drunk,

The Donnas rock!!!!

remeber dont drink and post!

Athanasios

Should I ever find myself with another Marquee...Matt,

Or you could buy a PJ that doesn't require modding and avoid this mess entirely. Hip, hip, hooray for Sony! ;) :D

Matt,

Or you could buy a PJ that doesn't require modding and avoid this mess entirely. Hip, hip, hooray for Sony! ;) :D

yeah what phil says. i'm still buzzed and my ears are ringing....

Athanasios

Dont drink and post....:p

How could we be testing for 1080P and other performance markers, when the suggestions have been to send the boards to someone that is not situated to perform such test.

Well, usually this is a sign of not knowing the answers to the test results of the performance markers and hence avoiding to be told the answers by someone else. If he would know them, he could sit back and smile and just wait until the results smoke the competition.

It would also be valid if he just would post his own measurement results. There is no need for a 3rd party to make the tests. If this mod has been designed by engineers and not only cap-changers, resistor selectors or shielders-where-no-shield-is-needed then there should be no fear to stand the heat of putting some probes to the mods.

Just a guess, of course...

Andreas

What a horific waste of time, put all this effort & energy into getting us a cleaner hdcp free source!!

You people have never looked down the apocolypse of Haflich saying the Miata needed more fuel.
Once more into the abyss my friends.

Screw this, I'm going digital.

What a horific waste of time

Time not Important only life important!



Screw this, I'm going digital.

NOOOO! Think about the Stack! My God the Stack!




Athanasios

Where would screen shots be without digital? Can you imagine Mikey and Cliffy having to send rolls of film out everyday to the local drug store to get them developed? And even then how could they post them without scaning them digitally. Glad to see you boys being so constructive while I took a few days off from this nonsense to spend some quality time at Keeneland.

One of these days I am going to have to gas the Miata up to make a cheese pick up run to Texas.

Good luck with that. Shoot, we live in the same town and we can't get Mark to bring any product to a gathering. Perhaps it was because of how much I was teasing Phil about his lactose issues. ;)

How funny! I truly am lactose intolerant. :D A recent development that I guess is all part of getting old.

You guys should be ashamed! This thread was in it's death throws and you post and give it new life. :mad: ;)

Send the board sets to....


GINO!

He's done a killer setup on his blend, his minty sets show no blend line/area and is a neutral party in this. From his screen shots, he knows how to set up the Marquees to the Nth degree. He's worked on his set for 100s (?) of hours...


In theory this sounds good. I have very high standards and am willing to spend time and money to get there, and so only want the best parts/mods etc... out there for my blend.

I realise that doing the blind A/B testing is to take out the bias I'll have towards Mike, but unfortunately I'd wager I could recognise MP's work on the boards.

The circus has left town... It did well in gathering the crowds, but is failed to get many on the main rides. Only one had a real spin on a lesser ride, but that later came to a stop. Anyway, it appears no one purchased a ticket.

Hopefully, the next time it come back in town. It'll bring some really good attractions...

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2503/img1750ni0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Gino. Of course you would. Anyone who already has a set of mods from either manufacturer would.

You already have MP's mods. Why don't we get the other manufacturers to send you their stuff. You could evaluate which VIMS and neck boards are better and whether the other boards and which of those make things better with the winning necks and VIM.

I am not at all concerned about any bias you might have. You, I and most others including your wife think, are primarily driven by having to have the best CRT set up and I think would quickly throw under the bus, in a polite manner, the ones which were not the best. You couldn't live with yourself knowing you didn't keep what gave you the best picture.

MP. Greet screen shot. Thanks for posting it.

Mike, there appears to be some streaking in your screenshot.

I dont see it?(steaking). I still wish the shoot out would happen, but thats what it is"wishfull Thinking" Why cant gary just post a screen shot of that test pattern also. That would be enough for me to at least have some idea of what to look for.

Athanasios

Mike, there appears to be some streaking in your screenshot.

That "streaking" is in that test pattern. It there's at any scan rate, and on any display device.

It's not really streaking in that pattern, because if it were, the vertical line group in the top left patterns would not be clean. The "streaking" would connect the lines...

Mike, do you have a link to the original image. I would like to try it on my Marquee.

Chris.

Question? Can that image be burned to a regular DVD and played on a blue-ray or HD dvd player and still be oput put at 1080p or must it be from the computer directly out?

Athanasios

Mike, do you have a link to the original image. I would like to try it on my Marquee.

Chris.

Here you go:

Shoot at a faster shutter spead. The correct eposure can be obtained by increasing the ISO (the old film speed for which there is a digital equivalent which increases the amplification).

[QUOTE=mp20748;11863394]The circus has left town... It did well in gathering the crowds, but is failed to get many on the main rides. Only one had a real spin on a lesser ride, but that later came to a stop. Anyway, it appears no one purchased a ticket.

Hopefully, the next time it come back in town. It'll bring some really good attractions...





Did you have a good time? Where did you go? :) How can you take a vacation with you MOD Factory down?

Sounds a little like you sorry!!! This BS should stop.


Grow up!

Stop wasting the bandwidth. This is the same thing you did to avoid it last time.

I tried to get a shootout going here but it is clear that you do not want a fair one.

Stop wasting the bandwidth. This is the same thing you did to avoid it last time.

I tried to get a shootout going here but it is clear that you do not want a fair one.

Gary, you are full of crap

Stop wasting my time with this nonsense!

Oh, let's look at this:

- You have mods that you were selling over two years ago, but you only have one customer.

- You have an engineering team, but no specs, test patterns, screenshots.

- You want to do a shootout, but I must send boards to someone who neither understands the test requirements, or the projector we'll be using.

- The person that everyone on the forum would agree would be best for this, you don't want to go with.

- You are the un-known who asked for the challenge, but you want it on your terms.

- And for some odd-ball reason, you keep forgetting what not to say to the people who email or Pm's you.

And if this was anything other than the last Circus that you setup on this forum two years ago, prove it by bringing your boards to me yourself yourself. And you can do that the same time we'll be doing the meet in Middleburg.

btw, what did happen with the results from that last overly HYPED event up north, when you made the same claims?



-

Mike the image for download is only 1024x576 do you have the full size image? or maybe a link to where you got it from?

Athanasios

How can you take a vacation with you MOD Factory down?


:D

Mike the image for download is only 1024x576 do you have the full size image? or maybe a link to where you got it from?

Athanasios

Try this other one as well:

Mike the image for download is only 1024x576 do you have the full size image? or maybe a link to where you got it from?

Athanasios

It looks like it came from this post (second file out of zip) and it did not have the trailing edges

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8542136&&#post8542136

and it did not have the trailing edges


Not sure why you're not seeing the edges. They're not only on my CRT monitor as well, they're also on my wifes PC on her LCD monitor.

Oh, let's look at this:

- You have mods that you were selling over two years ago, but you only have one customer.


I hope everyone here can see you are clueless. You have no idea what we are selling because you will not have a shoot out.



- You have an engineering team, but no specs, test patterns, screenshots.



- You want to do a shootout, but I must send boards to someone who neither understands the test requirements, or the projector we'll be using.


I offered two projectors, I offered to fly him to a neutral party for the test. If you can not control the tester you do not want to do it.


- The person that everyone on the forum would agree would be best for this, you don't want to go with.

I offered to fly him in for a blind test!

- You are the un-known who asked for the challenge, but you want it on your terms.


We have been working with this chassis since 1992. We are a VDC warranty center. We received the first two projectors from VDC when they started building them in Florida for us to QC. I have a job and a company to run I do not have the time to hang out on the forum and tell everyone how great I am and not back it up.

- And for some odd-ball reason, you keep forgetting what not to say to the people who email or Pm's you.

What are you talking about!!!!!

And if this was anything other than the last Circus that you setup on this forum two years ago, prove it by bringing your boards to me yourself yourself. And you can do that the same time we'll be doing the meet in Middleburg.

If you had showed up we would have known who was better. You will never agree to a blind test you know you will loose.

btw, what did happen with the results from that last overly HYPED event up north, when you made the same claims?



-

If you had showed up we would have known who was better. You will never agree to a blind test you know you will loose.

I have a headache.

Not sure why you're not seeing the edges. They're not only on my CRT monitor as well, they're also on my wifes PC on her LCD monitor.

I don't see the trailed edges on my LCD monitor either:confused:

Chris.

I don't see the trailed edges on my LCD monitor either:confused:

Chris.

I see them on my three computers.

Athanasios

Not sure why you're not seeing the edges. They're not only on my CRT monitor as well, they're also on my wifes PC on her LCD monitor.

I was discussing the ecrabb_SMPTE_1920x1080_v1.png file out of that zip.

On my LCD screen it goes down to pixels if I look at it even with the magnifying glass there are no trailing edges

Maybe we are discussing different files - here is a cut of the area I thought was being discussed

Edit - now looking at what I posted maybe I do see some trailing edges - but they are very faint and maybe an optical illusion

Here you go:That jpg. has all kinds of compression artifacts in it. It's definitely not the same file you used in your screen shot.

I also see streaking in your screen shot Mikey.

In theory this sounds good. I have very high standards and am willing to spend time and money to get there, and so only want the best parts/mods etc... out there for my blend.I don't know Gino. I think it might be more attributable to an obsession than to high standards. You're spending several times more money than the rest of us for maybe a 10% better picture.

If you had showed up we would have known who was better. You will never agree to a blind test you know you will loose.

Show up where? To your last meet at your store?

It's a good thing I didn't go all that way for that. Just think how disappointed I would have been. It was about 20 people that showed up for that disaster.

OH, and where in this thread did you offer to fly your engineer anywhere?


I have a job and a company to run I do not have the time to hang out on the forum and tell everyone how great I am and not back it up

LOL... with all that going on, you jump into this thread and challenged me to another shootout. Wanting to ship projectors everywhere, and keep insisting on doing this shootout. Where are you getting all this time from...LOL


We are a VDC warranty center

Is this on your website?? Are you saying that you are true VDC warrantee repair center for VDC?


Why don't you just put the cards on the table, and make it clear as to what you're up to?

You have no intentions on putting your boards up against mine. Your intent here is to compel those folk waiting on my mod factory to open back up, to jump on your bandwagon - ain't gonna happen.

Again, you have the engineers, the test gear, and so called lab. but all you've been able to present so far is smoke.

You want a challenge, I've giving it to you. bring your boards down, send your boards down. Send your boards to Terry, send your boards to Gino.

But make this happen, so that I can shut you up once and for all!

That jpg. has all kinds of compression artifacts in it. It's definitely not the same file you used in your screen shot.

I also see streaking in your screen shot Mikey.

You see streaking in my screen shot, but only on that image. Which has streaking in it, and my screenshot is showing a very close up of that section of the pattern, so of course it's going to look different than what you're seeing looking at the whole pattern.

And yes, it's the same pattern!

Show up where? To your last meet at your store?

It's a good thing I didn't go all that way for that. Just think how disappointed I would have been. It was about 20 people that showed up for that disaster.

OH, and where in this thread did you offer to fly your engineer anywhere?




LOL... with all that going on, you jump into this thread and challenged me to another shootout. Wanting to ship projectors everywhere, and keep insisting on doing this shootout. Where are you getting all this time from...LOL




Is this on your website?? Are you saying that you are true VDC warrantee repair center for VDC?


Why don't you just put the cards on the table, and make it clear as to what you're up to?

You have no intentions on putting your boards up against mine. Your intent here is to compel those folk waiting on my mod factory to open back up, to jump on your bandwagon - ain't gonna happen.

Again, you have the engineers, the test gear, and so called lab. but all you've been able to present so far is smoke.

You want a challenge, I've giving it to you. bring your boards down, send your boards down. Send your boards to Terry, send your boards to Gino.

But make this happen, so that I can shut you up once and for all!

Why is it that you will not agree to a blind test. Just the answer please keep your BS out of it. Can you do that. Give everyone a good reason

Why is it that you will not agree to a blind test. Just the answer please keep your BS out of it. Can you do that. Give everyone a good reason

LOL.... I see you're getting really pissed here. Hang in there. I'm sure someone will shoot you a PM or email and get that same ole sales and marketing crap you're known for pushing in private.

I really doubt that you have mods. I'm having the biggest problem in trying to understand why you would not have anything of substance to support what you've been saying so far. Even some of the non technical folk on this forum have presented far more support with their system, and to think, you have all this technical stuff and engineers - and there's NOTHING.


btw, what about flying your engineer down here and making this happen?

Oh, you still did not answer my question on you being a VDC warrantee center.

I was discussing the ecrabb_SMPTE_1920x1080_v1.png file out of that zip.

On my LCD screen it goes down to pixels if I look at it even with the magnifying glass there are no trailing edges

Maybe we are discussing different files - here is a cut of the area I thought was being discussed

Edit - now looking at what I posted maybe I do see some trailing edges - but they are very faint and maybe an optical illusion

Here's a recrop from the file you linked to that removes the lines entirely. I can't see the trailing edges at all.

LOL.... I see you're getting really pissed here. Hang in there. I'm sure someone will shoot you a PM or email and get that same ole sales and marketing crap you're known for pushing in private.

I really doubt that you have mods. I'm having the biggest problem in trying to understand why you would not have anything of substance to support what you've been saying so far. Even some of the non technical folk on this forum have presented far more support with their system, and to think, you have all this technical stuff and engineers - and there's NOTHING.


btw, what about flying your engineer down here and making this happen?

Oh, you still did not answer my question on you being a VDC warranty center.

Hay I have an idea what about a blind test.

I know why you will not do it your mod factory is down.

Hay I have an idea what about a blind test.

I know why you will not do it your mod factory is down.

OK, send your engineer down and we'll do whatever test you want.

The mod factory is down for now, but will be back up later this month, but that has nothing to do with this... so there must be reason why you keep mentioning this........hmm.........

Can you answer the VDC question?

Guys sorry to see this has turned ugly and I doubt it will turn itself around.
If you cant get along civil then a far shoot out will never prevail. Were all friends here.

Thread closed.!!