I need help troubleshooting my RCA UTV unit. I came home today and found it on a page saying it was trying to phone WebTV to get an update. I haven't had my UTV connected to a phone line for years, so this was failing. The only options presented were to retry or to configure dialup settings. I turned the power off then back on in the hope that the unit would postpone (or forget) its attempt to dial up. At this point, the unit would not power back on. The three lights on the front panel are all flashing, the green and orange ones quickly and the red one slowly. I can hear the fan and disk drive spinning. It doesn't help if I plug in a phone line. I've tried unplugging the power from the unit, letting it sit a while, then plugging it back in. Apparently the power in the house went out when I was away, so I suspect this is a cause of the problem.

Does anyone recognize these symptoms? Is there a FAQ somewhere or troubleshooting instructions that might help me?

Thanks in advance.

I would leave the unit unplugged for an hour or so (not sure how long your "letting it sit a while" is), then plug the unit back in.
If you still get the WebTV screen you could have,
1. Drive went bad - usually you will have reboots while watching/recording shows as an early indicator.
2. Upgrade went bad, but you should have already upgraded.
3. Corruption in the OS disk area - my guess, see below.

I can tell you I had this happen once, was upset that I had lost my recordings. I used WinHex to reinstall OS software, powered unit up, and my recording were there. So my case was actually corruption in OS on disk.

For future avoidance of this problem... Investment in a UPS (Battery Backup) may help avoid unexpected power loss. UTVs usually hate "poor power" events. Just like any other computer (UTVs are just like your PC/Mac, they just operate as a DVR) they may act funny if they don't get "clean" power.

The "multi-flash" colors usually indicate the UTV is "marrying" the hard drive... this typically also means it is being formatted and locked to your UTV Receiver. (Just like if you had installed your PC's Hard Drive into a UTV... It would reformat and "lock" it.)

If you are still running the original 40GB drive I'd recommend just upgrading to a 120/160GB IDE Hard Drive (Rather Cheap now.). This will probably take care of the problem regardless of which of the 3 issues mentioned were really to blame...

This isn't a tuner problem. Only draw back is your loss of recordings. You might try the WinHex install RandCfilm mentioned... but I wouldn't hold out much hope.

For future avoidance of this problem... Investment in a UPS (Battery Backup) may help avoid unexpected power loss. UTVs usually hate "poor power" events. Just like any other computer (UTVs are just like your PC/Mac, they just operate as a DVR) they may act funny if they don't get "clean" power.I agree 150% with lgodave. Allot of times when you have a power outage, the power comes back on for a second, then back off, on, off, etc... When the power company finally has made a good connection the power stays on. Those on - off cycles have got to be hard on the drives and a great chance for data corruption. A UPS can save allot of equipment and data.

Update: I left the device alone for a few hours and it came back to life. Perhaps it was in fact reformatting the disk. It prompted me to download the software, and after I clicked ok it dialed up MSN and downloaded the software. It seems to be working fine now, but I lost all my saved programming. I upgraded the disk drive years ago, but thanks for the suggestion. Seems like a UPS might be a good investment.

It can also allow for continued recording/viewing during power outages. (Assuming the battery can provide power for the duration.)

I lost power from (according to the UTVs) around 7:30pm-8:30pm (CT) Tuesday 9-25-07. That messed up my recordings of the SPs of House,NCIS, and The Unit. I wasn't home that night otherwise I probably could have had time to "rig" up spare power (via Power Inverter or other UPS units) to continue powering the UTVs.

Without a UPS I might not have had anything from 7-7:30pm or possibly from 8:30 onward. Given any "minor" power fluctuations. I'm considering bumping up the battery capacity of at least my "main" UPS unit(s) to provide longer uptime for my dish multi-switch (keep those tuner feeds online) and UTV "hub".

If I can plan for about a solid hour of uptime by rule then... I should be covered for all but a downed power line. In that event I've been debating getting a good 12v Deep-Cell to run with a Power Inverter that I could use for various things needed around the house as needed.

Here's what I use :D





http://whatahoot.org/stuff/gen.jpg






kazak

Nice. Really not that expensive and much more versatile. Just be sure to have enough fuel to keep it running for the time needed. Also... DO NOT RUN IT INSIDE THE HOME! You hear/read about people doing dumb stuff like that with generators and space heaters that aren't meant for indoor use. They end up dying from Carbon Monoxide poisoning or from a house fire or something.

Invest in some quality Extension Cords and run the generator in a well ventilated area.

Nice. Really not that expensive and much more versatile. Just be sure to have enough fuel to keep it running for the time needed. Also... DO NOT RUN IT INSIDE THE HOME! You hear/read about people doing dumb stuff like that with generators and space heaters that aren't meant for indoor use. They end up dying from Carbon Monoxide poisoning or from a house fire or something.

Invest in some quality Extension Cords and run the generator in a well ventilated area.


All good suggestions. I have a transfer switch mounted next to the breaker panel in the basement and a connector next to the rear door. Power goes out just wheel the thing out the door, plug it in, pull the rope, go inside and switch in the circuits you want to use, and voila! Watch TV.
It will even run my heat pump and well pump at the same time but you have to make sure to stagger their startup.
Ice storm? We don't care!:D

kazak

Interesting... I wasn't thinking about a "Service Panel Hookup"... But that certainly sounds simple enough and much less clunky then having a "Standby Generator" that can't be used for any "portable" uses...

Thanks for the pointing me in this direction. Those larger UPS units can run around $200... Might just stick with the cheaper UPS units and roll future investment into a portable/secondary power source.

I've seen these generators, but I've been told they are very noisy. I know that Honda has some very quiet ones, but they cost around $900 or so. Don't the neighbors get a bit cranky?

You could build a simple "sound proof" box... to encase the generator... Allowing for proper air flow (and weather protection) and such while cutting noise pollution.

I personally don't have nearby neighbors that would be bugged by a reasonably loud generator. I've noticed some much more expensive generators that have idle control and such which can cut down on noise,extend run time, etc.

I've seen these generators, but I've been told they are very noisy. I know that Honda has some very quiet ones, but they cost around $900 or so. Don't the neighbors get a bit cranky?


Yes, noisy is right but I live out in the boonies and my nearest neighbors are a long way off.
The noise IS annoying though. In fact, I've been considering moving my outside connect point farther away from the area of the house we hang out in.


kazak

I've been considering moving my outside connect point farther away from the area of the house

kazak

Couldn't you just extend the extension cord a bit? Or is that a bottle neck? Only have X feet of connection cable... Any more and it causes more problems then it is worth?... What about using a "sound proof" container box when in use?

Couldn't you just extend the extension cord a bit? Or is that a bottle neck? Only have X feet of connection cable... Any more and it causes more problems then it is worth?... What about using a "sound proof" container box when in use?

It's not really an extension cord. This is a 10KW (12.5 surge) generator with a 50amp connector. I'm using #6 cable:eek:
The soundproof box is a good idea but I think it would just be easier to relocate it. Anyway, I'm in the Southeast and it doesn't get used all that much. I use it almost as much in the summer as winter.


kazak

Understood...

I probably would use it as often too (not so much)... Don't have many long term outages here but being prepared never hurt.

I lost power again, this time for 2 hours, and again had to download the UTV software. I'm ready to buy a UPS but have a couple of questions. First, if the power outage is longer than the battery life of the UPS, does the UPS help at all, or does it just delay the problem? In other words, does the UPS enable the UTV to shut down in a more controlled way when the battery runs out of juice? Second, does anyone have a recommendation for a brand or model of UPS? Also, when calculating the battery time, how much power should I assume the UTV is using?

Thanks,
DT

Day Tripper,

Thanks for checking back. This type of problem does suggest some hard drive related problems. Loss of power shouldn't (normally) result in loss of the UTV OS.

If you've had the UTV open (after PULLING the ACCESS CARD!) and checked that the IDE and Power Cables are seated OK and not causing issues... I'd suggest that along with buying a UPS that you pickup a new 160GB or larger (137GB Useable) IDE Hard Drive (A very inexpensive option these days). That may resolve needing to download os/re set-up your recordings.

As for UPS concerns. I have an answering machine (with it's own "battery backup") that HATES it if you disconnect power. It deletes EVERYTHING and returns to it's default settings.) I've had it plugged into a UPS (with a UTV/DVR) for many years now and the UPS does help "transition" the answering machine to "no power" without loss of it's recordings/settings.

A UTV isn't likely to behave the same way... However, the UPS will likely protect/isolate the UTV from some of the "cycling" of the power levels... so it will probably have an easier time of it being plugged into the UPS then "in the wild". Low/High Voltage outside the UPS's range will likely keep the "battery protected" outlets shutdown or on battery power until AC power is restored and within the set range.

I use APC UPS units (I've tried Belkin units but I've not had good experience with those.) 300-550 VA (approx 200-300 watt units) give me about 10 or more minutes of run time with various items running.

I don't have my "Watt-Meter" handy but I've heard and seem to recall UTV power use is around 25-40 watts when it's spun up ("OFF" or "ON"). I'll get you a better idea when I get my meter back. The basic/cheap 300-350 VA UPS units should do fine for "typical" 5-10 minute outings...

So a 160GB or higher IDE Drive (Seagate w/5-year warranty in MHO) and an APC UPS with a VA/Watt rating as high as you're willing to buy/maintain, in a form factor you'll like (Upright/Power Strip/etc)... is what I recommend.

Good luck and keep in touch.

Dave

Also, when calculating the battery time, how much power should I assume the UTV is using?

DT

I don't have my "Watt-Meter" handy but I've heard and seem to recall UTV power use is around 25-40 watts when it's spun up ("OFF" or "ON").
Davelgodave is on it. Hooked up my kill a watt meter, 120GB drive 37 watts when up and running. APC has runtime charts for their ups, here is link (http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=21) for the ES series. Runtimes @ 50 watts from 24 minutes to 2 hours. Your choice as to cost.

lgodave is on it. Hooked up my kill a watt meter, 120GB drive 37 watts when up and running. APC has runtime charts for their ups, here is link (http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=21) for the ES series. Runtimes @ 50 watts from 24 minutes to 2 hours. Your choice as to cost.

Did you notice much variation in the watts used by the UTV? I seem to recall it was rather flat... "ON" or "OFF" it stayed almost constant after power up...?

Did you notice much variation in the watts used by the UTV? I seem to recall it was rather flat... "ON" or "OFF" it stayed almost constant after power up...?I did not look at that, powered up the unit made sure it was on, had both satellite inputs connected and checked meter. Actually 32 watts without satellite inputs connected, then I connected the inputs. I would think it would be constant, the power off stops AV out and possibly saving to buffer, but the drive is still running.

I have not had much luck with UPS' lasting more than a year or 2 at most. It's never the UPS itself, but rather it's always the battery. And I've found the batteries cost almost as much as the units. So, I just go with the cheapest units, and I've even found they often have the same battery as the APC units. What I've ended up with is about 8 of the $20-$25 units, a connext, which I get at frys - often on sale for even less. They are the same as a $40 APC, except there are a few less outlets (but a $3 powerstrip fixes that). I use them all over the house.

Each seems to handle about 200 watts, as my kill-a-watt (what a great meter!) has verified. I use 4 of them with a computer, 3 flat panel screens, and other things like routers, cable modems, etc. . I find this is better than 1 larger more expensive unit.

I use one for 2 utvs, and another for my tv. The rest are for my other items, like a security dvr. Every so often one dies (it keeps tripping because the battery goes) and I just replace it with another one - it's not worth the trouble to find just a battery. This way, I don't have an all or nothing situation.

I have really lousy power; it hiccups at least once a week (the lights go out for 1/2 second), and so I feel better with the UPS to smooth out the power. Some of my UPS trip momentarily when the A/C goes on. I haven't had a long outage for a few years (x-ing fingers) so when it goes, it's usually for a day or so (after a windstorm), not just a couple of hours.

I'd agree from past experience the "connext" brand as far as I've seen in the past is/was just a rebranded version of the same APC model. Staples once had an ad for a 350VA APC but they only had the Connext's version... Found a Staples with the APC but I'm sure the Connext unit would have worked identically (Not sure about Warranty differences however).

I've had much longer battery life (and a better AC Power Grid it would seem). I was able to buy several non-UPS Battery Packs rather cheaply ($10 a pop) that work OK with my oldest UPS (made in 2000)... But I've had to retire most of it's sister units because they either burned out (bad Capacitor?) or it could no longer recharge the battery properly.

I'm now up to 350VA-550VA units,many running 3 or more years now... I would concur that in some respects when the batteries go it is usually cheaper to just find a sale... You might find a Thrift/Goodwill store that can take the old UPS off your hands... Otherwise be sure to recycle the SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) Battery at a local recycle center,Battery Store,etc. Maybe keep the old UPS as a spare. When the old UPSs failed/burned out I kept them for spare parts... it can come in handy. One with poor charging worked great if I needed a "portable" power strip. Gave me more options then a regular power strip.

When the old UPSs failed/burned out I kept them for spare parts... it can come in handy. One with poor charging worked great if I needed a "portable" power strip. Gave me more options then a regular power strip.
You can't do that with some of the "Cyberpower" UPS's, though. When the battery bites it, nothing works on it - even the non-battery outlets fail to work. The problem is, the unit won't let you power it up if the battery fails to take a charge. The APC and Energizer units I've used do fine with a dead battery.

My "low charge" APC wasn't exactly dead... I could recharge/replace the battery (from another sister unit or with the unit in "off/standby" mode overnight)... It's standby life would be maybe a few days before a replace battery warning required another charge/swap out.

So my APC was a bit more then a "portable" power strip... It'd have UPS backup... just extremely limited run-time. Fine for little power hiccups. I particularly liked it when taking a UTV on the road/vacation.