Ok, this is going to be intersting.

Being grandfathered in, I wonder if DirecTV will have to provide me with HD distant locals when the analog distant locals are cut off.

When SD distant locals are cut off, those locals will be providing a digital signal. I would think it would be HD for many of the network programming...unless they start providing a digital SD signal for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX.

Maybe no one will know till at least on or near the Feb 17th 2009 date. Will DirecTV downrez the distant locals? Will Congress force DirecTV to downrez the distant locals? Will the distant locals force DirecTV to dowrez the signal? Will DirecTV simply cut off the distant locals? WAIT, I'm grandfathered in! They can't do that, or can they???

Ok, this is going to be intersting.

Being grandfathered in, I wonder if DirecTV will have to provide me with HD distant locals when the analog distant locals are cut off.

When SD distant locals are cut off, those locals will be providing a digital signal. I would think it would be HD for many of the network programming...unless they start providing a digital SD signal for ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX.

Maybe no one will know till at least on or near the Feb 17th 2009 date. Will DirecTV downrez the distant locals? Will Congress force DirecTV to downrez the distant locals? Will the distant locals force DirecTV to dowrez the signal? Will DirecTV simply cut off the distant locals? WAIT, I'm grandfathered in! They can't do that, or can they???

The local channels will undoubtedly be providing an SD signal long after the digital transition. The transition is only to digital, not to HD. There are many OTA viewers out there who will need an SD signal for their older TVs - even with a converter box.

As far as exchanging HD distant locals for your SD ones, that won't happen. D* sees HD service as a separate thing and not covered under your grandfather clause.

True alot of local stations around the country send out digital SD, with the HD has a sub channel which they want some pennies from each sub if they want it on sat or cable.

In my area, I know of one MAYBE two major networks that have a digital SD channel of their HD counterpart. So I'm thinking best case situation where a distant local local network does not provide a SD version of their HD channel in Feb 2009. What would DirecTV do? Would they crop it? Keep it wide but only at 480i?

I already know that when the switch happens, it's only to digital and HD is not required. However I think that all of the distant locals (WCBS for one example) are already providing HD programming. If one of the big distant locals do not provide a digital SD signal, would DirecTV search for another distant local so they can provide a digital SD signal to those of us who are grandfathered in?

In my area, I know of one MAYBE two major networks that have a digital SD channel of their HD counterpart. So I'm thinking best case situation where a distant local local network does not provide a SD version of their HD channel in Feb 2009. What would DirecTV do? Would they crop it? Keep it wide but only at 480i?

I already know that when the switch happens, it's only to digital and HD is not required. However I think that all of the distant locals (WCBS for one example) are already providing HD programming. If one of the big distant locals do not provide a digital SD signal, would DirecTV search for another distant local so they can provide a digital SD signal to those of us who are grandfathered in?
I think the reason many stations don't provide a digital SD version is that it's not really needed right now. Almost every digital TV out there now is either HD or widescreen SD. Nearly everyone else is covered by the analog SD signal. Even those that have bought 4x3 SD TVs with digital tuners are probably still running the same old analog station feed into it. Once the analog signals are cut off, I bet you'll see a lot of stations moving that SD content to a digital subchannel.

Very few stations will continue to provide separate SD and HD feeds.This is something stations are trying to get away from since it requires double the equipment. No station I know of is planning to continue an SD feed post transition if they provide HD.

At this point only cable is required to provide an "analog" signal until 2012. That analog signal could be a letter box 16:9 of the HD feed or it could be a separate SD feed provided via fiber optic or a subchannel on the digital channel or anything in between. There is no law that states it has to be 4:3, just an "analog" signal for those with legacy analog sets still in use. Sat is not included in this since their boxes provide SD 480i anyway. How that will be formatted has yet to be decided and probably won't be until the transition and will differ from station to station.

There will need to be an SD feed of all these local stations coming from somewhere as local cable companys and such will still need a 4x3 format low res station to send out to all its non HD customers which will still be in the majority come cut off time. Local SD isn't going anywhere for awhile (even if that means the stations will crop and downscale their HD output for SD)

Hmmmm...

One MORE thing that no one thought about, when they said the "DTV Transition will be very simple". :)

Very few stations will continue to provide separate SD and HD feeds.This is something stations are trying to get away from since it requires double the equipment. No station I know of is planning to continue an SD feed post transition if they provide HD.
They may not be planning it, but I find it unlikely that they won't eventually throw in a low bit rate SD simulcast - especially when they get complaints from viewers in regards to how a mix of SD and HD (and pillar-barred, upconverted SD) is dealt with by those converter boxes. Finally, when has the government cared how cumbersome or expensive anything is for local stations? I guess only time will tell who is right.

At this point only cable is required to provide an "analog" signal until 2012. That analog signal could be a letter box 16:9 of the HD feed or it could be a separate SD feed provided via fiber optic or a subchannel on the digital channel or anything in between. There is no law that states it has to be 4:3, just an "analog" signal for those with legacy analog sets still in use. Sat is not included in this since their boxes provide SD 480i anyway. How that will be formatted has yet to be decided and probably won't be until the transition and will differ from station to station.
Analog is a different animal. We're talking digital 4x3 SD. In addition, who cares what is required by the cable companies? The FCC sets different requirements for cable, DSS and OTA.

Hmmmm...

One MORE thing that no one thought about, when they said the "DTV Transition will be very simple". :)

Well it should be simple. I would think they would simply send out a digital SD signal of the HD content...that is IF the network provides one and IF there is a way to send that signal out as a widescreen (16:9) signal so that there is no pillar boxing going on, and let the consumer stretch it if he or she does not want the black bars. Everyone's new digital recievers should allow for that.

Or just simply pass through the digital HD signal if there is no digital SD equivalent and let the consumer downgrade the signal via their 480i output to their older TVs if they so desire.

I'm inclined to think everyone -- the networks, the broadcasters, and the cable and satellite companies -- would just as soon be done with the old feeds and the bandwidth and infrastructure they take up. Right now, digital is an added burden to all these players, but they expect to be much more fleet afoot once they go exclusively digital and optimize their new digital plant. Keeping infrastructure for an old-style feed defeats that purpose.

So to answer the original question, yes, the satcos will probably have to take DNS from the HD feed. (That is, unless they can find a Sinclair station for each network, as they're the only folks -- at least in my area -- who provide an SD simulcast subchannel. The rest either don't multicast or use their -2 subchannels for added-value programming.)

Very few stations will continue to provide separate SD and HD feeds.This is something stations are trying to get away from since it requires double the equipment. No station I know of is planning to continue an SD feed post transition if they provide HD.

At this point only cable is required to provide an "analog" signal until 2012. That analog signal could be a letter box 16:9 of the HD feed or it could be a separate SD feed provided via fiber optic or a subchannel on the digital channel or anything in between. There is no law that states it has to be 4:3, just an "analog" signal for those with legacy analog sets still in use. Sat is not included in this since their boxes provide SD 480i anyway. How that will be formatted has yet to be decided and probably won't be until the transition and will differ from station to station.

So what can we expect for the Fox feed with D*? Will be getting the east coast feed in HD?

I expect many stations to re-evaluate all of their waivers, and probably revoke most of them once the "inferior" analog signals are gone. They will have new coverage patterns, and new frequencies to deal with, so many people will qualify for a Digital OTA signal, rather than DNS.

The networks and stations need to start planning for AFD support. This will allow an appropriate downconvert from HD (letterbox or center cut). NBC is already doing this internally with Miranda equipment. The networks are planning to eliminate their SD distribution, some perhaps as early as next year. Even though most OTA HD tuners probably don't support it now, AFD will still provide proper downcoversion by the converters at the cable/sat companies. At some point the cable/sat companies will want to eliminate their digital SD feeds, and the STBs will do the downconversion and will need to support AFD. It will be interesting to see how this affects DNS.

I expect many stations to re-evaluate all of their waivers, and probably revoke most of them once the "inferior" analog signals are gone. They will have new coverage patterns, and new frequencies to deal with, so many people will qualify for a Digital OTA signal, rather than DNS.

I know your making a point, and your point is interesting. I never thought that they might re-evaluate all the waivers unless the locals or congress make a big stink about it and personally, I don't think DirecTV even cares one way or another as they tend to change things only if mandated to do something different. At least that's what I've seen from DirecTV in the past.

On the other hand, in the case where people have been receiveing distant locals because of their grandfathered status, I don't beleive they would be "re-evaluated".

I know your making a point, and your point is interesting. I never thought that they might re-evaluate all the waivers unless the locals or congress make a big stink about it and personally, I don't think DirecTV even cares one way or another as they tend to change things only if mandated to do something different. At least that's what I've seen from DirecTV in the past.

On the other hand, in the case where people have been receiveing distant locals because of their grandfathered status, I don't beleive they would be "re-evaluated".

Except D* would love to get all local stations off conus. In addition, the fewer oddball subscriptions they have to keep track of, the easier it is to streamline their billing and operations.

D* providing people with distant networks is an additional revenue stream only as long as their are markets unserved by LIL. Once they eventually roll out all markets, it becomes a nuisance.

in my area, nearly all the major networks have both an hd and sd digital signal.

I'm new to this discussion here but I've been thinking that congress will probably extend the transition date again before 2009 arrives.

They may not be planning it, but I find it unlikely that they won't eventually throw in a low bit rate SD simulcast - especially when they get complaints from viewers in regards to how a mix of SD and HD (and pillar-barred, upconverted SD) is dealt with by those converter boxes. Finally, when has the government cared how cumbersome or expensive anything is for local stations? I guess only time will tell who is right.

Some may, but all of the ones I am in contact with will put out one signal and the cableco will decode that for the HD feed and for the next 3 years after the shutdown, to provide it either in letterbox or center cut to the analog channels they are required to provide. Cable would LOVE for stations to continue to provide a 4:3 signal but stations are actively trying to get out of the simulcast mode as quickly as possible. Now what the networks will provide to the stations is yet to be specified to the stations by their networks.


Analog is a different animal. We're talking digital 4x3 SD. In addition, who cares what is required by the cable companies? The FCC sets different requirements for cable, DSS and OTA.

At this point only cable is required to support legacy analog sets. What is displayed on them, 4:3 or letterbox is left up to the cableco. If the station doesn't provide a 4:3 feed, then cable will have to either cernter cut or letterbox. That is pretty much it.

I'm new to this discussion here but I've been thinking that congress will probably extend the transition date again before 2009 arrives.

That is not even being discussed at ANY level, broadcaster or FCC or Congress. The big push in Congress is now that the Dem's want more tax dollars to spend for mandated announcements about the Feb 17, 2009 cut off date. A delay in the date removes them the opportunity to spend tax dollars and they aren't going to do that.

in my area, nearly all the major networks have both an hd and sd digital signal.

That is because they have 2 transmission sources. When Feb 17, 2009 comes, one of the transmission sources go away so there is no need to continue two separate signal paths for one transmission source.

So what can we expect for the Fox feed with D*? Will be getting the east coast feed in HD?

Since there will be no SD feed available to D* or E* for that matter, D* will have to downconvert and either letterbox or center cut the HD feed. But to be honest, I would suspect that all waivers go the way of the analog signal and you will have the local HD signal only that gets downconverted. The FCC rules have been steadily moving to completely do away with all DNS.

That is because they have 2 transmission sources. When Feb 17, 2009 comes, one of the transmission sources go away so there is no need to continue two separate signal paths for one transmission source.

This is good news since my local ABC uses a sub channel as a 4:3 source (for cable) and has been taking away from the quality of their main digital (HD) channel.

Since there will be no SD feed available to D* or E* for that matter, D* will have to downconvert and either letterbox or center cut the HD feed. But to be honest, I would suspect that all waivers go the way of the analog signal and you will have the local HD signal only that gets downconverted. The FCC rules have been steadily moving to completely do away with all DNS.

Letterboxing down a HD signal would provide much better video quality than I'm getting with the current distant locals.

And you might be right about the waivers going away with the analog cut off as the waivers were to help people who could not receive their ANALOG signal in their area.

On the other hand, I wonder if grandfathered service such as distant locals would be a factor in that? Not to mention, I still have a DirecTV package that is no longer offered. I'm still paying for and receiving that same old package.

We have always stated in any correspondence that waivers "may be revoked at any time, at the station's discretion". That way, we can grant them on a temporary basis to people who have special circumstance-issues, without making it permanent. This allows us to work around spot-beam issues and such.

But, either way, they were waivers for analog reception problems, not Digital.

We have always stated in any correspondence that waivers "may be revoked at any time, at the station's discretion". That way, we can grant them on a temporary basis to people who have special circumstance-issues, without making it permanent. This allows us to work around spot-beam issues and such.

But, either way, they were waivers for analog reception problems, not Digital.

I believe your talking about local TV station policies. I think the people who fall into the grandfathered status under DirecTV's own policy who receive distant locals never had a waiver. Years ago, after 60 or 90 days of buying into DirecTV, a customer could call in to see if they could get the distant networks turned on. DirecTV simply asked if you had problems receiving local channels and if you said yes, they would turn on the local distants for you. It used to be that simple. Now some of these people still receive those distant locals because they are grandfathered in. I'm thinking that once SD signals are turned off, that these people might start receiving the HD signal or at worst, the SD equivalent.

All those folks still had to be approved by the stations. I received a list of tens of thousands of requests from D*, which I still have on disk someplace.

At first, D* was signing up every customer for DNS, without any questions (beyond, maybe, "Do you have a perfect signal from them NOW?").

IMO, we pretty much are guessing how DNS will be handled once 2/2009 is here. I believe stations and D* have had no set pattern for processing waivers; and I think D* would be reluctant to arbitrarily shut off a revenue flow monthly from me of $4.50 as just one small example in a much larger universe.

To support my contention that the analog cutoff is not necessarily the big end of DNS and that grandfathering may carry the day for a lot of us, I offer the following quote from my Feb. 2004 CBS station waiver: "You live in an area where you are not expected to receive our signal over the air so we have no objection to your receiving (our) HDTV signal or a distant CBS HDTV signal from your satellite carrier."(Bolding and underlining added for emphasis).

There's no mention of analog or temporary or revoking, so I could see how, if I never choose to receive LIL, D* could be perfectly happy financially speaking and legally as well in continuing permanently to send me the CBS DNS digital signal.

This is good news since my local ABC uses a sub channel as a 4:3 source (for cable) and has been taking away from the quality of their main digital (HD) channel.

I am not saying your local ABC will stop providing a 4:3 subchannel. By not having to provide an analog signal, the reason behind doing it reduces substantually. The local cableco here has been begging for years that all of the stations provide a 4:3 channel for them on our digital channels. None of the stations here have done it for them and no one has plans to do it post transition either. As a matter of fact, a lot of stations who had been providing 4:3 channels have stopped doing it. Some in preparation for Feb 17, 2009 and some want the bandwidth back.

IMO, we pretty much are guessing how DNS will be handled once 2/2009 is here. I believe stations and D* have had no set pattern for processing waivers; and I think D* would be reluctant to arbitrarily shut off a revenue flow monthly from me of $4.50 as just one small example in a much larger universe.

To support my contention that the analog cutoff is not necessarily the big end of DNS and that grandfathering may carry the day for a lot of us, I offer the following quote from my Feb. 2004 CBS station waiver: "You live in an area where you are not expected to receive our signal over the air so we have no objection to your receiving (our) HDTV signal or a distant CBS HDTV signal from your satellite carrier."(Bolding and underlining added for emphasis).

There's no mention of analog or temporary or revoking, so I could see how, if I never choose to receive LIL, D* could be perfectly happy financially speaking and legally as well in continuing permanently to send me the CBS DNS digital signal.

In Feb 2004, there wasn't a hard shutdown date for analog either. FCC rules have also modified how DNS is done since then and more changes will happen as well that will make your bold statement mute.

All those folks still had to be approved by the stations. I received a list of tens of thousands of requests from D*, which I still have on disk someplace.

At first, D* was signing up every customer for DNS, without any questions (beyond, maybe, "Do you have a perfect signal from them NOW?").

I remember being asked a series of questions. I think it was two or three though I don't remember, it was about 10 years ago. I also don't remember having to wait for them to turn on the distants, I remember them being turned on without delay. However now that I think about it, I think DirecTV had to send a letter out to the locals informing them who was receiving the distants.

What I do remember is not too long after that, a local station or two was suing (I think it was DirecTV) for providing these distants. Then Congress got into the act and since that time, it's been much harder for DirecTV to provide the distants.

I'm starting to wonder if congress wrote in rules to provide a "grandfather" status for those of us who have had that service before a certain date. Or if in fact it is a DirecTV policy. So I'm thinking if congress provided the grandfather situation for certain customers, then it would seem to me that re-evaluating the wavers would have nothing to do with those who are grandfathered in...unless congress changes the rules.

In Feb 2004, there wasn't a hard shutdown date for analog either. FCC rules have also modified how DNS is done since then and more changes will happen as well that will make your bold statement (moot).
The essence of grandfathering is that subsequent "rules...and more changes" don't apply to me because I'm grandfathered in thus immune from new rules. But we shall see!

I'm starting to wonder if congress wrote in rules to provide a "grandfather" status for those of us who have had that service before a certain date.
Oh no, just what I needed! Now I may spend the day reading SHIVA and SHVERA P.L. text to see what if any grandfather rules apply to DNS. Thomas here I come!

Oh no, just what I needed! Now I may spend the day reading SHIVA and SHVERA P.L. text to see what if any grandfather rules apply to DNS. Thomas here I come!The FCC also has a fact sheet here:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/shvera.html

... and more information in Word (.doc) format here:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/policy/shvera.doc

The essence of grandfathering is that subsequent "rules...and more changes" don't apply to me because I'm grandfathered in thus immune from new rules. But we shall see!


Oh no, just what I needed! Now I may spend the day reading SHIVA and SHVERA P.L. text to see what if any grandfather rules apply to DNS. Thomas here I come!

Maybe a simple call to DirecTV would help provide that answer? Or at least to find out if it was in fact congress that provided the grandfathered status.

The essence of grandfathering is that subsequent "rules...and more changes" don't apply to me because I'm grandfathered in thus immune from new rules. But we shall see!

The rules over the last few years have been written to do away with DNS all together and that means doing away with Grandfathering as well. It would not surprise me if by 2012, DNS is only a memory.

The rules over the last few years have been written to do away with DNS all together and that means doing away with Grandfathering as well. It would not surprise me if by 2012, DNS is only a memory.Ultimately that seems to be the goal.

But for now, anyway, it looks like the magic date for digital DNS is December 8, 2004. If you had digital DNS before that date, you may be able to keep them. If you didn't, you're out of luck unless you're "unserved" by an OTA signal and there's no local-into-local in your area.

Ultimately that seems to be the goal.

But for now, anyway, it looks like the magic date for digital DNS is December 8, 2004. If you had digital DNS before that date, you may be able to keep them. If you didn't, you're out of luck unless you're "unserved" by an OTA signal and there's no local-into-local in your area.

But analog and digital DNS are currently considered two separate issues. Just because someone has the analog DNS, doesn't (didn't) automatically give them digital DNS and vise-versa. Many people had to go back and ask for digital DNS as well. Personally, I have a digital DNS for FOX but can't get the analog DNS for FOX if my life depended on it. Just because you have one, doesn't mean you can or will get the other one.

As the rules are currently written, when analog goes away, so does the "analog waiver" and is not transferrable because the analog and digital DNS' are two separate waivers, as has been shown to be the case since Dec 8, 2004. Dec 8, 2004 was the date that ushered in the analog/digital DNS separation. Again, I wouldn't bet the farm on the digital DNS' hanging around too long after analog goes away either.

...unless you're "unserved" by an OTA signal and there's no local-into-local in your area.
And in this case as well as those having digital DNS in Dec. 2004, IMO I would be grandfathered to continue to receive distant DNS no matter future rules (I won't say rules and future laws because I don't think Congress will revisit this -- unless in panic next year they extend the Feb. 2009 date :) .

Personally, I have a digital DNS for FOX but can't get the analog DNS for FOX if my life depended on it.
Ok, OK, I'll bite! Why on earth would you want the analog DNS if you have the digital???

Just because someone has the analog DNS, doesn't (didn't) automatically give them digital DNS and vise-versa.
I wonder if there's some confusion on this? I received waivers for two networks in LA & NYC which I paid for and enjoyed throughout 2004. Then months later in Jan. 2005, I guess because of SHVERA enactment, D* on its own added quote "CBS HD" and "Fox HD" unquote to my programming at no charge because I subscribe to the HD package. So it was pretty automatic in my case since I didn't do anything nor, as far as I know, did the stations do anything.

In D*'s case, a waiver for the 380 channels came first, then later the 80's channels apparently were added automatically after SHVERA. Perhaps a waiver is a waiver and then FCC rules start making distinctions. But this is kind of confusing!

Of course I forgot! Many of us still have analog sets.

The essence of grandfathering is that subsequent "rules...and more changes" don't apply to me because I'm grandfathered in thus immune from new rules. But we shall see!


I think the term "grandfathered" came from the policy of letting old grampa keep making his little bit of hooch, as long as his still was being used to make it JUST for his own use.

It never gave him rights to make any other drugs or sell tobacco.

Analog TV and Digital TV (and their ability to be received) are looked at as two different "vices" :D .

I'm new to this discussion here but I've been thinking that congress will probably extend the transition date again before 2009 arrives.

I hope not.

But based on the way that the Katrina/FEMA debacle came about I won't be surprised especially since AARP will likely engage in last minute fear mongering to its membership.

I don't see D* keeping SD DNS as such a burden. Look at all the home-shopping and gospel-huxter channels taking up space on D* and E*.

I think the term "grandfathered" came from the policy of letting old grampa keep making his little bit of hooch, as long as his still was being used to make it JUST for his own use.

Analog TV and Digital TV (and their ability to be received) are looked at as two different "vices"
This is a fascinating humorous theory, but in the interest of history, gotta say "grandfathering" probably originated in Jim Crow laws passed in the South in the 19th century to prevent minorities from voting.

And in farther clarification, the grandfathering concept is defined to apply not only to rights one already has, but it can be defined also to cover brand new rights made available down the road to newly eligible people (but given as well to the grandfathered people, solely because grandfathering gives them those rights they'd not otherwise be entitled to receive).

So IMO, grandfathering could be applicable to digital DNS signals.

The usual misinformation here........good thing I do not rely on this forum for the facts.........

And in this case as well as those having digital DNS in Dec. 2004, IMO I would be grandfathered to continue to receive distant DNS no matter future rules (I won't say rules and future laws because I don't think Congress will revisit this -- unless in panic next year they extend the Feb. 2009 date :) .

As of Dec 2004, all ZIPCodes are now listed in a LIL market which does away with the whole concept of DNS. That is done. The law is written so when you get LIL (analog or digital) the provider can drop your DNS legally because the purpose of the DNS law was to provide TV in areas "underserved" meaning no TV station being defined for a certain area. That has been done now so EVERY country, EVERY ZIPCode is now in a Nielsen market so has a network station assigned to it. No need for DNS now. You get the LIL station for your ZIPCode.

Ok, OK, I'll bite! Why on earth would you want the analog DNS if you have the digital???

I don't. I was using that as evidence to support my statement.

The usual misinformation here........good thing I do not rely on this forum for the facts.........

Feel better now?

The law is written so when you get LIL (analog or digital) the provider can drop your DNS legally because the purpose of the DNS law was to provide TV in areas "underserved" meaning no TV station being defined for a certain area... No need for DNS now.
You're undoubtedly absolutely correct, but I'd put an emphasis on "provider can drop", they don't have to drop me. And that's where I hope grandfathering legally comes in at the provider's discretion.

In the case of D*, as long as I tell them no thanks when LIL comes to my area, why would D* want to lose my DNS revenue? Not only that, but DNS alone is a prime reason for me staying with D*! And I'm sure they have all kinds of data telling them about customer retention measures and what they need to do keep their subs.

The usual misinformation here........good thing I do not rely on this forum for the facts.........
Oh no, another member not happy when I don't let any facts get in the way of my opinions and misinformation! :)

You're undoubtedly absolutely correct, but I'd put an emphasis on "provider can drop", they don't have to drop me.

No they don't, but D* does drop DNS when they know a sub has LIL (it is well documented here on AVS) and since E* can't legally directly provide DNS anymore, DNS is getting to be a mute point and D* can use the DNS bandwith for something else, whether we like what they use that bandwidth for or not. The dropping of DNS has a lot to do with how individual stations deal with DNS. Most tell D* when a sub gets LIL, turn them off and D* legally has to.

but D* does drop DNS when they know a sub has LIL (it is well documented here on AVS)
I don't believe there's any argument on that point; but, concerned about losing DNS, I make the separate point that if I decline LIL when it becomes available in my area, then I hope D* uses discretion and doesn't turn off my DNS. And as I read it, in that case D* can legally continue it for me.


D* can use the DNS bandwith for something else, whether we like what they use that bandwidth for or not.

So very true, but I hope D* knows if they turn off my DNS, they're risking the permanent loss of at least this sub and for what: To save a little BW for a few years on MPEG2 that is gonna go away anyway!

Most tell D* when a sub gets LIL, turn them off and D* legally has to.
I can't see that many stations going over individual lists and telling D* for example to turn off DNS for Harry Smith at 38 Elm St. It's probably mostly a blanket preauthorization, perhaps few stations even do that, and it's kind of an automatic policy on D*'s part to turn it off. But in my case, I won't accept LIL and therefore, whether it's called grandfathering or whatever, I hope D* sees the folly of turning off my DNS and does the right thing.

I wanted to bring up this thread again because there has been some resent talk of some getting messages from DirecTV telling them their HD distant locals will be getting cut off on 8/7.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the distant locals once the analog channels are turned off early next year. Now that I think about it, DirecTV will probably still send those out as a SD signal.

Still a lot of unanswered questions about 8/7 I think. Those who do not have LIL yet, and those who have LIL, but do not have LIL in HD. It will probably be a wait and see as to what D* does to adjust after D11 is turned on. (Very soon I Hope) My guess is if D* carries your LIL in HD then you lose Distant Locales entirely.I don't believe there will be any grandfathered status involved. Just my opinon though. Could be D* will keep the SD DNS, but I seriously doubt it. It could be that we will lose only those DNS that are carried by D* if they are not LIL via D*. In short if D* carrys the LIL network you lose DNS network.

Still a lot of unanswered questions about 8/7 I think. Those who do not have LIL yet, and those who have LIL, but do not have LIL in HD. It will probably be a wait and see as to what D* does to adjust after D11 is turned on. (Very soon I Hope) My guess is if D* carries your LIL in HD then you lose Distant Locales entirely.I don't believe there will be any grandfathered status involved. Just my opinon though. Could be D* will keep the SD DNS, but I seriously doubt it. It could be that we will lose only those DNS that are carried by D* if they are not LIL via D*. In short if D* carrys the LIL network you lose DNS network.

That was the plan when the latest SHERVA came out a few years back but D* hasn't really kept to it. With the Digital Transition looming and D* beginning to switch to the digital stations for the LIL to get ahead of the transition, they seem to be seeing the need to cut the HD ties before a precedent is set.

That was the plan when the latest SHERVA came out a few years back but D* hasn't really kept to it. With the Digital Transition looming and D* beginning to switch to the digital stations for the LIL to get ahead of the transition, they seem to be seeing the need to cut the HD ties before a precedent is set.


So if DirecTV is switching to the digital stations for the LIL, then that means (for those of us who are grandfathered in) we may get the digital feed of that distant local?

Even if so, I'm not sure if that will mean a HD signal. They could simply send the 4:3 cutout of the digital signal and still transmit it as a SD signal.

I could very easily settle for a widescreen (16x9) SD signal

So if DirecTV is switching to the digital stations for the LIL, then that means (for those of us who are grandfathered in) we may get the digital feed of that distant local?

Yes.

Even if so, I'm not sure if that will mean a HD signal. They could simply send the 4:3 cutout of the digital signal and still transmit it as a SD signal.

I could very easily settle for a widescreen (16x9) SD signal

No, it doesn't mean HD. If there is no HD carriage agreement in place, then it will be downconverted to SD. Whether it is center cut or letterbox will depend on what the station has agreed to be done with its signal.

For those you receive distant locals because of grandfathering or because of living in a certain location distant from a major city, and who have the outdated programming package from DirecTV that is no longer available to new subscribers: If you elect to select a new base package (in order to receive the Biography Channel; BET-J; etc.), do you think that switch to a new base package may endanger your ability to retain the distant networks? I'm thinking that the DirecTV staff may reenter all the channels when you switch packages and subsequently not give you the distant channels because you no longer quality. Valid concern? Thanks.

For those you receive distant locals because of grandfathering or because of living in a certain location distant from a major city, and who have the outdated programming package from DirecTV that is no longer available to new subscribers: If you elect to select a new base package (in order to receive the Biography Channel; BET-J; etc.), do you think that switch to a new base package may endanger your ability to retain the distant networks? I'm thinking that the DirecTV staff may reenter all the channels when you switch packages and subsequently not give you the distant channels because you no longer quality. Valid concern? Thanks.

I think your concern is valid. Currently I have an old DirecTV account that's no longer available to new subscribers and I too would be concerned to update it if it meant loosing my grandfathered distant local networks. So I'm not going to do that. I would think the thing to do is call DirecTV to ask if updating your account to a newer service would jeopardize your DLNs.

Welp, only two more months till the analog shut off!!! I know my DLNs won't turn into HD, however I do have my fingers crossed that they might send a SD 16x9 signal.

Anyone know of any updates?

Some mentioned converter boxes in this thread. I bought one for an old analog tv and the setup allows you to take a center cut from the HD widescreen signal. The logos have been moved so that the center cut picture will still carry the network logos. There should be no need for a 4:3 SD feed, except maybe for the satellite networks and cable companies. Maybe the stations should just send in for a converter box coupon and use the converter box to feed the cable and satellite providers.;)