Hi, there is a lot of knowledge on this forum and I have read and read postings. Also the atmosphere is one of helpful and considerate. I hope there is some help for my questions. Thanks to everyone for sharing such extensive information.

A quick background. I am moving to front projection. My room is 20X24 with 20" ceiling. A 135" screen will be mounted on the backwall with the bottom edge 6.6' from the floor. The projector will be mounted 8' from the floor and 18' from the screen. Seating will be 22' from the screen. The backwall where the screen is mounted is 80% glass windows with plans to use electric shades. There are no other windows in the room.

I have made a temporary screen with tarp and sheet. With an older HP XP7030 projector I am am able to fill the screen and have good brightness during the day with ambient light. Here are the specs on the XP7030:

HP xp7030 Projector Specifications
MSRP (USD) : $ 2,499
Brightness (Lumens) : 3500 ANSI
Contrast (Full On/Off) : 2000:1
Variable Iris: No
Audible Noise: 35.0 dB
Eco-Mode: 32.0 dB
Weight: 7.3 lbs
Size (inches) (HxWxD) : 4.0 x 12.2 x 9.0
Std. Lens: Focus:Manual
Zoom: Manual, 1.20:1
Throw Dist (feet) : 5.3 - 27.3
Image Size (inches) : 40.0 - 250.0
Optional Lenses: No
Digital Zoom: **
Keystone Correction: Digital H+V
Lens Shift: No
Compatibility: HDTV:720p, 1080i
EDTV/480p: **
SDTV/480i: **
Component Video: Yes
Video: Yes
Digital Input: DVI-D (HDCP)
Personal Computers: Yes
Display: Type:DLP (1)
Color Wheel Segs: **
Color Wheel Speed: **
Native: 1024x768 Pixels
Maximum: 1280x1024 Pixels
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (XGA)
Lamp: Type:300W **
Life: 2000 hours

I am looking at purchasing either the Epson 1080UB, Panasonic AE2000 or Sanyo PLV-Z2000. All of these projectors have ANSI Lumnes specs significantly less than the HP XP7030. I worry that I will spend $2600-$3000 and the projector will not be bright enough. Is there something different between these new projectors and the older HP XP that would not be a apples-to-apples comparison?? I know the HP XP7030 will do what I need and I am hoping I can do the same or better with a new projector.

Also I recently learned the Comcast HD cable may never use 1080p. Since 85% of my viewing is cable maybe I should use a 720p newer projector that is as bright as the older projector. And if I can't get the brightness from a new 1080p I may have no other choices. If you think none of these projectors I am looking at will meet my needs could you suggest something else in the <$3000 range?

I want to publicly acknowledge my lack of expertise and thank you all for your help and understanding.

Bill

Bill

1024x768 are generally considered business projectors and the emphasis with these projectors has always been brightness. That doesn’t mean some of them haven’t been used very successfully as home theater projectors. I still run a 1024x768 projector in my home theater for several reasons, and one was because of the brightness.

Lumens are pretty much lumens when it comes to projectors and more important is matching the (Foot Lamberts) to the room setting “ambient light & wall, ceiling color” FL’s are the lumens per square foot of screen times the gain of the screen. To complicate matters more the number you see advertised are not always the real world lumens after calibration. Places like projector central do a lot of testing and report on the real world brightness. My point being the business projector may be rated 3 times the lumens but in real life depending on what projector you end up with you might be 6 or more times the lumens. In a total light controlled room with dark light absorbing surfaces such as a movie theater you want around 15FL’s. As ambient light increases more lumens will help in overpowering it on the brighter end of the image and seeing as how black is made by projecting no light or very low light lumens cant help you there. What can help in that situation is a darker screen (neutral gray) but the downfall of a gray screen is it robs you of some lumens to help with what we call perceived blacks or perceived contrast.

Another big thing for you to think about is your seating distance. At 22’ you will not be seeing a lot of difference in resolution due to pixel size. Once you are far enough back as to not discern screen door effect on your XGA 1024x768 going 720 or 1080 wont have that great an effect on PQ.

A simple experiment to do is calculate what size each of the 3 formats pixels will be and take a sheet of paper and draw a grid of each. Hang them up and stand back 22’ and see if your eyes can detect the squares or do you see them as just lines. This would be the absolute worst case and while watching a movie it will be many times harder to see.

So in short the DIY screen you now are testing with might have to be replaced with something of a higher gain if lumens drop too much. keep in mind when screen gain goes up its at the expense of viewing cone angle. So if some of your seating is off axis that could be a issue also.

As a means of comparison my XGA image is 54x96 or 110” and my seating distance is 13’ eyes to screen and SDE is no issue except when the image goes to total white then I can detect it a little. It depends a lot on how good your vision is and how hard you are looking for it.

Below is a good read.

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html

I hope I gave you some help I saw no one was posting in to your questions so I thought I would throw in my two cents.

Bud, thanks for your response. I figured my questions may seem to specific to my situation and that is why nobody was replying. But really the topic can be quite generic - how do business projectors compare to the latest 1080p projectors when comparing brightness?

I read your reply a few times and followed the link too. I guess there is no easy answer to address my specific question about the HP projector. But you have helped with the information you gave. I guess I really need some high lumens and have been doing a lot of reading on the Pana AX200.

I like your extra points regarding detail/resolution when I'm sitting at 22-24 feet. Even though I have more room to go bigger than 135" diagonal - I'm afraid I would need even more lumens to light it up. The larger screen could be a reason for higher resolution but at the expense of brightness. Oh well - never easy.

at the end of the day, I just hope this older HP XP7030 (1024X768) isn't the ONLY projector that will work! I have to believe that I can I can step up to a HD level PJ that is bright enough.

thanks again - the folks on this forum always come through....:o

Bill

I think most of the projector manufactures have some goal in mind when they put a projector to market, and most of the medium priced units designed for the consumer market they design around a screen size of maybe 110” and for a room with 8’ ceilings and the viewers sitting 10 or 12 feet back, etc.

You are correct with a room your size you could go much larger and have a really impressive setup but as your screen grows the number of lumens required goes up exponentially. So if you double the screen size you need 4 times the lumens, triple it you need 9 times the lumens. And that’s without considering the impact of ambient light. The three best cures for ambient light are more lumens, more directional screen of a higher gain and a screen with a neutral gray surface. That’s assuming you have done all you can do first to remove or block the ambient light. The content being viewed also plays a big part in it, things like sports and cartoons and animated features where the majority of the image is always brightly lit will look much better than many movies where there us always a few dark scenes.

One of the biggest factors for you will be the motorized shades you mentioned and how well they will work in blacking out the room. And then what level of light you will require during viewing. I personal tried to set my room up to function in two ways one as a totally lights out movie theater type room and secondly a partially lit sports bar type room for viewing with groups of people eating and drinking and moving around etc. my projector for example if I was to go totally light control all the time throws a very nice image to a 300” screen, being a business projector with 2000 lumens in high mode. But instead I run in eco mode and with the neutral gray screen I get about the same FL’s returning off a 120” screen. But it is now much more ambient light friendly. Also try and factor in that the bulb will diminish up to 50% in brightness over its life.

I personal don’t see you needing to go beyond a 720 projector for resolution with your seating distance. Maybe someone will post in that has seen some of those machines and can give you a feel for real world lumens they will produce. Many of the new projectors use dynamic iris controls etc to get the high CR specs they advertise keep in mind when using in these modes the output lumens fall off.

thanks again Bud. you may have saved me $1400 if I don't go with 1080p.

With all the good raves about the Panasonic AX200, I may give it a try and hope the HP XP7030 is overrated on its specs and the AX200 is just as bright.

If not, for the price of the AX200 maybe I should buy two and put them side by side or on top of each other and run them in parallel.:cool:

thanks again Bud. you may have saved me $1400 if I don't go with 1080p.

With all the good raves about the Panasonic AX200, I may give it a try and hope the HP XP7030 is overrated on its specs and the AX200 is just as bright.

If not, for the price of the AX200 maybe I should buy two and put them side by side or on top of each other and run them in parallel.:cool:

10% is my normal gratuity when saving people large sums of money….:D

As for a two stack of projectors it’s been done but I don’t think you will have to go there yet. Spend some of that $1400 savings on light control in the room and your PQ will benefit way more than any 1080 resolution projector could ever do for you IMHO.

I have always said the 20 bucks I spent on a gallon of black paint did more than all my efforts and expenses combined.

Get or make a screen that has a little gain limit the ambient and pay close attention to any that is directed onto the screen or close to the screen and find a projector that is rated fairly high in lumens and one that owners report back as a bright projector and you should be fine. :)