I'm in the process of building an HT room, and am struggling to decide on what kind of screen to go with. I have an NEC 1352, and would like to have a 106" wide screen. I will have COMPLETE light control. The alternatives I've been considering are:

1. Torus screen with high gain screen material. Advantages: Lots of brightness without pushing the tubes very hard, and the Torus shape minimizes hotspotting. Relatively cheap to make. Disadvantages: No one seems to like the Vutec Pearlbrite material I was considering anymore due to poor quality control that results in "streaks" on the screen, and I haven't seen anyone talk about a good alternative high gain screen material. Loss of focus in the corners. Possible pincushion effect. Also, I read that there can be an annoying echo effect from the Torus shape.

2. Vutec Silverstar. Advantages: Lots of brightness, similar to the Torus. Disadvantages: Possibly less accurate color, possibly not as sharp a picture as other materials. Expensive (over 2000 bucks for the screen size I want)!

3. DIY Wilsonart screen. Advantages: Cheap! In the hundred buck range for a BIG screen, such that I could go with a scope setup if I wanted, and I could spend money on a nice video processor instead of the screen. Far more durable and easier to clean than "fabric style" screens. Has color accuracy comparable to "reference" and (EXPENSIVE) material such as the Stewart StudioTek stuff. Disadvantages: Not as bright, would have to push the tubes harder.

Advice, recommendations, experiences (including screenshots) MUCH appreciated!

Somebody mentioned doing a Wilsonart 1-axis torus (i.e. cylindrical section) but I don't know what came of it...
My suggestion... Wilsonart to begin with while building a torus or provisioning the capital for the silverstar... you may find it works well enough `and that your contrast is not scary-high.

Because I'm a complete DIY'er I'd personally forgo the kilobucks screen and just re-tube or replace the PJ when the time comes.

I have a vutec torus screen right now and will have a regular Wilsonart screen built by the 20th of October. I'll let you know what I think.

By the way, you also forgot to mention the issue of bowing with a torus. I ran out of vertical bow on mine (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=845520).

Your suggestions sound reasonable, Jtnfoley, given the low cost of doing a Wilsonart. I'm extremely curious about your Wilsonart Torus, Jeff. Will it be a 1 axis design, as jtnfoley mentioned? Will you be treating the Wilsonart surface to increase the gain, or will the gain increase come solely from the curve? What do you like/don't like about your Vutec Torus? I await the 20th with much eagerness! I designed my projector mount to make it easy to adjust projector height.

Robert,

Sorry, my post was unclear. I'm just making a regular flat wilsonart screen. I don't think you can even curve the wilsonart on two axis.

The main thing I don't like about the vutec torus is the streaking, which is very distracting during bright scenes that pan. Also, higher gain screens are more susceptible to light spill, and I'm having some issues with that. Finally, I'm having issues with geometry where I have run out of bow adjustment.

Ok, Jeff. If I'm reading your other thread correctly, you also have an XG. That will make for a good comparison with my situation. Too bad about the streaks. It seems Vutec's quality control has gone downhill.

Robert,

I currently use a 12ft wide 12" deep curved screen with the Stewart Ultramatte 200 fabric - it is nothing short of fantastic.

I ran out of pincushion on my 10PG and had to use point convergence on green but if done right you will not have any banding at least in the PG plus chassic from NEC.

Now I have close to perfect geometry (1% or less errors even in left to right and top to bottom linearity) and the added immersiveness of the curvature is really something else.

Oliver

Robert,

I currently use a 12ft wide 12" deep curved screen with the Stewart Ultramatte 200 fabric - it is nothing short of fantastic.

I ran out of pincushion on my 10PG and had to use point convergence on green but if done right you will not have any banding at least in the PG plus chassic from NEC.

Now I have close to perfect geometry (1% or less errors even in left to right and top to bottom linearity) and the added immersiveness of the curvature is really something else.

Oliver

Can't we just bend 1/4" drywall boards and apply paint like suggested Behr for screen? Are there formulas to follow when making torus screen? I was at the theater the other the and I notice the screen had an arch shape like a torus. But the bottom and top part were not bent.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Neil

Oliver,

So is it a 1-axis curve? What's the gain of the Stewart fabric? How much did it cost?

Oliver,

So is it a 1-axis curve? What's the gain of the Stewart fabric? How much did it cost?

200 implies the 2.0 gain of the fabric, and it is really expensive. That's why we call it $tewart$ afterall.

Heh. Doesn't sound like the kind of stuff that's in my budget.

I think by the time you get a stewart screen you might as well buy another 1352 and stack them :D. Then there's also the fact that it's a pain to get a quote from Stewart. I went through phone loops for 30 minutes a few weeks ago just trying to find the price of the Ultramatte 200.

I think you're right, Jeff. I imagine Stewart HATES the idea of people turning to DIY screens, especially with stuff like the Wilsonart.

Either ultramatt 150 or StudioTek 130 (200 is fine if you can stand hotspotting or just going curved) is perfect choice for the XG and both can be pretty cheap buying the fabric only to be stretched over your own made frame. Fabric only should be less $1k. I sold my 87" wide ST130 and will get one of the above soon.

Either ultramatt 150 or StudioTek 130 (200 is fine if you can stand hotspotting or just going curved) are perfect choice for the XG and both can be pretty cheap buying the fabric only to be stretched over your own made frame. Fabric only should be less $1k. I sold my 87" wide ST130 and will get one of the above soon.

"Less than $1k" is still a lot though (assuming the $800 range), considering the marginal improvements over the Wilsonart. I believe Clarence said that if someone offered him a free Stewart screen, he'd sell it and continue using the Wilsonart :p. Some people just have to have the most expensive items for bragging rights though.

"Less than $1k" is still a lot though (assuming the $800 range), considering the marginal improvements over the Wilsonart. I believe Clarence said that if someone offered him a free Stewart screen, he'd sell it and continue using the Wilsonart :p. Some people just have to have the most expensive items for bragging rights though.


Regardless of personal preferences, Stewart's are hard to beat in performance and I feel they are excellent value as well.
But I am certain there are other choices too.

What are the attributes of Wilsonart over ST130?

What are the attributes of Wilsonart over ST130?

Cost, durability, and customizable size (you can just cut a Wilsonart, but I don't know if I would do that to a Stewart). Now don't get me wrong... Stewart makes very nice screens, but some of us don't have $800 to spend on a screen, especially when a $120 one will do just fine.

Now don't get me wrong... Stewart makes very nice screens, but some of us don't have $800 to spend on a screen, especially when a $120 one will do just fine.

Fair enough. Who wants to over spend anyway even if wealthy.
Is there any performace variations between the two? Anyone has looked into it carefully?

Fair enough. Who wants to over spend anyway even if wealthy.
Is there any performace variations between the two? Anyone has looked into it carefully?


*shrugs*. All I know is that Clarence swears by this stuff :p.

Thanks!

Can't we just bend 1/4" drywall boards and apply paint like suggested Behr for screen? Are there formulas to follow when making torus screen? I was at the theater the other the and I notice the screen had an arch shape like a torus. But the bottom and top part were not bent.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Neil


Hi,

I have no experience whatsoever with high gain DIY solutions and frankyl I got the Ultramatte 200 at a nice price and never looked back after that :)

But I will say this: I do not know of a single satisfactory DIY solution that has a measured gain around 2 or above and the evenness you will get with the Ultramatte 200 - it is smooth as silk.

Oliver

Heh. Doesn't sound like the kind of stuff that's in my budget.

The Stewart IMO is the best way to do a torus/curved screen.
But the fabric is more than twice as expensive as the Vutec if I remember correctly.

With a 106" screen width you can go the low gain route and you will probably be able to get a very nice solution that is also very cheap.

It is just that above a certain screen width you can't get by on one projector and while the Stewart fabric is not exactly cheap it certainly beats a stack of two projectors that would also have to have very good tubes for a stack to make sense.

Thanks, Oliver. If I have the money someday and want to go bigger, I'll keep the Stewart material in mind. You've given me confidence that I'll be able to get a nice picture with a 106" screen width. I'm curious what you paid for the Stewart material.

Can't we just bend 1/4" drywall boards and apply paint like suggested Behr for screen? Are there formulas to follow when making torus screen?There is a Torus screen calculator on AVS that you can do a search for. I don't know how you would bend rigid material to a Torus shape, though, since you'd be bending along TWO axes, not one.

A lot of points.

I agree with Oliver. Nautikal had(has) a problem with the Vutec and I think a couple of others had problems as well. I don't believe Terry has had any issues though in a couple of his installs. So that being said is you have a crap shoot with the Vutec or the guarantee with the Stewart. If you can get a warranty on the Vutec, then that might be a nice option. There aren't any good DIY high gain options at this time. I have never purchased any pearl pigment to see what kind of gain I could get with it, but it may be an alternative. The problem is the DIY cost may not be worth it. The only other option is the UHG approach with the translucent layer over a mirror. This can work, but there are no large pieces of aluminized mylar leaving you with a small screen. With all of this being said, I still love the performance of a well executed Torus. I think it is a better option than stacking. As Oliver says, once you factor in all of the expenses with a stack a Stewart screen may look down right cheap.:)

As for the Wilsonart, it has its advantages and disadvantages as well. When I originally recommended it to Bill over a year ago, he was looking for something that was larger than the standard 4x8. Since the Wilsonart comes in sizes up to 5x12, it seemed like a natural. Clarence was the first to buy it and loved it. It is inexpensive and practically bullet proof, which Clarence needed for his kids. I measured the DW to be the best of the whites in the Wilsonart lineup, which has been measured by others as well. The problem as I have seen with the laminate is the gloss. Brian Feldman bought some and tried it with his G90. There was definitely an issue with hot-spotting, but it is a sample size of one so results may vary. One could mitigate this with doing a horizontal curve. Neither Clarence or Brian (or anyone that I know of) has tried this, so I am not sure how much curve would be needed.
Finally, Bill is continuing his quest to improve the laminate performance. He had some issues with a couple of AVS members, so he left and went over to HTshack. I just found this out recently and have only glanced over at the shack. He is speaking with Wilsonart about new options and they seem to be receptive to his input. Unfortunately, it may only result in new grey screens for the digital guys. Anyway, you can check over there for any new developments.

Oh, I wanted to add that while I would consider the Stewart for high gain, I think DIY can match their unity gain screens. I would never pay the money for the ST130 and yes I have seen it.

Nautikal had(has) a problem with the Vutec and I think a couple of others had problems as well. I don't believe Terry has had any issues though in a couple of his installs. So that being said is you have a crap shoot with the Vutec or the guarantee with the Stewart. If you can get a warranty on the Vutec, then that might be a nice option.I'd go with the Vutec/Torus approach if I was guaranteed a good surface, but I read in another thread that Vutec has said they're no longer accepting returns on the Pearlbrite material. That tells me they have no confidence in their QA/QC. It's very unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be a reasonable alternative.

Thanks, Oliver. If I have the money someday and want to go bigger, I'll keep the Stewart material in mind. You've given me confidence that I'll be able to get a nice picture with a 106" screen width. I'm curious what you paid for the Stewart material.

Robert,

with a little blue defocus the Xg will be able to light that screen up. A little gain (1.2 to 1.4) would be nice also but it's not an absolute necessity.

As for the Ultramatte: I paid 7$ per square ft I think - this was the deal for a used Stewart cinema screen in the classifieds.

The screen has some specks and scratches but is still better than the two new Vutec fabrics I have seen, but those are brighter still by about 30%

There is no return on the Pearlbrite, that is true but at least they are fair and tell you beforehand.

Oliver

I'm redoing my theater and the main change was going from a very high gain curved screen to a HP screen. The screen I had was super good, but not perfect. I could never figure out how to get rid of the grain. No one else but me could see it, but you know how that goes.

The HP has it's problems too. I had to lower my PJ off the ceiling to just over six feet off the ground, going to raise the money seats so I'm within a couple of feet of the center of the lens. Right now with the PJ lower (my eyes are 42" away from the center of the lens) the image looks plenty bright, but it does get a little brighter within a few feet of the PJ, not much more brightness is gained after that. The screen is good for maybe three or four seats wide, depending on what type of chairs you use and how far back you sit.

One big advantage with the HP is, the screen does not need to be anywhere near perfect. My screen has all kinds of waves in it, but it's impossible to see. Seems this is a big problem with roll up screens.

It's a monster screen, 78"X139", 159" diagonal. I like it a lot, the screen disappears, just like other people have said before, nice and bright.

The borders suck, looks like flat black paint, no where near as good as black velvet.

Deron.

Deron,

why didn't you do a curved screen with the HP ?
The HP indeed disappears as far as structure goes and does not tend to hotspot but I could not live with its colorshift - completely unacceptable for me.

The HP is a perfect screen for a 14 ft wide scope setup with a digital projector that is projecting from a position that is very close to the seating position.

Oliver

I was using a High Power when my projector was floor mounted and I was very happy with it. But as Deron mentioned, it isn't really suitable for regular ceiling mounting. He's right that the waves in the screen disappear. No "sparklies" either.

Oliver

Your right, the HP does color shift pretty bad out of it's narrow viewing cone which is only 25 degrees. I would still recommend it for someone that wants a overly large screen.

The PJ being lower turns out to be no big deal, I though it would bother me, but I actually like it lower. It's just above my head as I'm walking around, in my black velvet theater it's just plain hard to see anything anyways, let alone the PJ hanging down. Working on it now is a pleasure. Redoing my theater is actually working out really well. The HP kinda forced me to raise my seats, which made me think outside the box. I decided to use the front of my platform as another seating area. That is one thing my theater always lacked, enough seating. I will end up with five more seats, which is double what I had before. They will be the cheap seats for the kids and whoever does not care.

Even with the HP on the ceiling I found the image to be pretty bright.

Also you do not have to curve the HP screen, that is why you do not see the waves in the screen, no matter what angle the screen is too the PJ it reflects the light evenly back to the source.

Deron.

Also you do not have to curve the HP screen, that is why you do not see the waves in the screen, no matter what angle the screen is too the PJ it reflects the light evenly back to the source.

I thought you liked your curve just for the sake of it being curved - I know I do. It gives an immersiveness to the picture I cannot get with a flat screen so I would not want to give it up now that I have it, even if it was not needed to even out hotspotting or colorshift.

When I tested the HP I also had a pulldown - it was impressive to see that the wrinkled pulldown I had did show none of its wrinkles in the picture - very impressive performance there from the HP.

Oliver

Never really though about the curve of my older screen that way, but now that you mention it, it did feel like I wanted to fall into the image when I was close to the screen.

I did not like using more then recommended bow though, in fact I left the image with some amount of bow in it.

Another reason I like the roll up screen is, it keeps the dust off and protects it from people wanting to touch it.

Deron.

Deron,

I know about people touching the screen - there were at least two who wanted to put their greasy hands on it and I had to physically throw myself between them and the screen :)

As I have the plus chassis and use plenty of point and geometry adjustments I get pretty much perfect geometry on scope movies and close to perfect on 16:9 and 1.85 to 1.
I have added a fan here and there so I figure I take care of the additional heat pretty well.

Well, if you ever feel like haveing a curved screen again you can just dismantle the pulldown and put it on a fixed frame - it is cheaper than buying only the fabric.

Oliver