These seem to be going for similar prices on the used market ($700-$800). I've heard stellar things about them, just wondering if anyone has heard them both.

I'm interested in information regarding their sound signatures. I think I've heard both described as being slightly laid back before. Accurate? I'd also like to know which images more convincingly, both in it's dimensional presentation, scale, and the speaker's ability to disappear. Which works best with the widest range of music? I'd be listening to anything from The Prodigy to Thelonious Monk, as well as using them for home theater.

The thing that concerns me about the Arro is that it's been described as fantastic for lower volume listening, but not dynamic enough for live levels or loud movies. My living arrangement doesn't permit listening at extreme volumes often, but I can crank it every once in a while. For reference, I've listened to some LOUD stuff on my Energy C-9s (Mostly action movies. Hot Fuzz most recently, holy crap) and have yet to find their limit (ie I've never bottomed them out). It probably helps that my room is QUITE small. I haven't heard anything about the 21L's lack of dynamics or ability to go loud, so I'm leaning a bit in that direction.

Another thing is integration with a sub. Would the 12L actually be a better choice in that case?

And finally, has ANYONE heard the new L2 series? It is apparently "improved" but I haven't read any real reviews to know what exactly has changed.

And if you've heard the Arro or the 12L/21L and ALSO any of the Energy Reference Connoisseur line up, I REALLY want to hear from you as the RC-10 (or maybe RC-30) is at the top of my list simply because I've actually demo'd them and was VERY impressed.

Thanks.

edit: Oh, and as another reference, if I could find speakers that have a similar signature to my favorite headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 880s, I would definitely check those out. If you haven't heard them, they're exceedingly neutral with just a bit of extra high end energy. Remarkably fast and detailed but still musical, with the biggest and most open soundstage I've ever heard in a headphone.

edit2: If I'm bringing the 12L into this, we might as well talk about the Totem Rainmaker too.

I haven't heard the Quads but I do use the Arro's in my 3rd system. It is mostly used for background music. Here are some thoughts:

- they are known as imaging monsters, true but I found they sound drastically different in my somewhat challenged (untreated) room setup in different locations (as with all speakers). When I first got these, I put these in my "big" treated room and I listened for hours. Imaging is 1st on my audio priorities. These are not the best imaging speakers I have had in my system but then again, I have / had some heavy hitters (ProAc Super Tablettes, Scientific Fidelity Tesla's, PMC DB1's, PMC TB2s).

- dynamic - yes within context. A test of a good system is that is sounds just as good playing at low levels as high. It has a 4" woofer - physics plays a big part. However if you are using a sub you should not have problems with dynamics within a reasonable range

- sub integration: no problem! Just use a good quality external active cross over (some are built in the subs)

- Totem tends to impart a small sonic signature (lush midrange?). I like it. You may not.

The Arros works well in my 3rd system because
- they are not there to rock the house but to provide background music
- occassionally, I sit in the sweet spot for quasi serious listening
- blend in well with the decor (furniture grade cabinets) and have a super small footprint. This is the biggest factor for me in this 3rd system.
- high resale value and demand is always there on the used market.

Good luck

edit - just did a quick search on the Quad 12L - I have listened to these but not seriously (they were playing out in the open in bad conditions). You need to factor in the price of stands as well. IMHO - the Totem Arro is one of the best "very small footprint" tower speakers. I looked for a long time for a reasonably priced quality tower speaker with very small footprint. The other I was considering was the PMC GB1 but it was just way too much $ for speakers for a 3rd system.

Thanks Eric. It might not be fair comparing the dynamics between a 4" and 6.5" woofer. Even so, would you say the Arro is a poor choice for (resonably) loud home theater duty?

Thanks Eric. It might not be fair comparing the dynamics between a 4" and 6.5" woofer. Even so, would you say the Arro is a poor choice for (resonably) loud home theater duty?

Yes

you will also have a hard time finding a centre to match unless you use another Arro. Totem doesn't make a centre with the same driver complement.

Yes

you will also have a hard time finding a centre to match unless you use another Arro. Totem doesn't make a centre with the same driver complement.

Oh, I forgot Totem doesn't make centers or surrounds. Even though my system is 2 channel at the moment, I will probably go surround at some point down the road, so that's another nod to Quad who have a matching center.

If anyone has used the 21L, can you comment on how their... shortness affected things for you? The 12L is appealing because on 24" stands, the tweeters would be right at 3', which is my listening height. The 21L is only 32" tall, so the tweeters would be about 6" lower than the 12L's would be for me.

Alternatively, are there any places that sell solid blocks (granite, marble, wood even) that could raise short floorstanders up somewhat?

For instance, I've seen Mapleshade stuff, and it would be great if it wasn't so DAMN expensive. $500 for a block of wood with spikes? No thanks.

Anyone?

Hi Pibbo. What have you heard and what have you liked? How did you find yourself among these few choices (if you might not even have heard them)?

I A/B tested the Quad 22L with BW 703. Even the 22L's tweeters are low (Im assuming the 21L might be shorter). I can't say how much it negatively affected performance, because I did not want to sit on the floor. The Quads had a warm and pleasant coloration. However, the BW blew its doors off with detail. Much, much more musical information. Totally unfair comparison at double the price. I did this test because I was a little curious how a TAS best-of-'06 winner would handle a competitor at twice the price. For me, it happened to be just one singular, but obvious case of "you get what you pay for". I didn't really compare other things you are looking for: "dimensional presentation, scale, and the speaker's ability to disappear". I knew I needed more detail, and I quickly moved on...

Sorry. I saw your thread before, and thought I didn't really have much good to add. But it seemed you were getting desperate, so I threw in my 1 cent. I wish you best of luck.

However, the BW blew its doors off with detail. Much, much more musical information.

Interesting. Positive they were drawing out more detail, or could it have been the exaggerated high end of the 704s? I've heard the 700s and they seemed really bright and forward. Kind of like my old Audio-Technica A700s, which amazed me with detail, but when listening to better phones (like my DT 880s), I realized they were just really bright and shoving all the detail in my face.

I am absolutely positive. Of course the dealer said the BWs would win handily, but as a wary consumer, I try to see for myself when I can :). He left for lunch and he trusted me to A/B myself for whatever reasons, and I did with an all Rotel setup (the store also had Primare, McCormack, NHT, SF, etc, used gear). The difference in detail was night and day. Period. Sure, I might say the BWs were a bit brighter, but they were not offensively so to me (and there are a few out there that are).

For me, it is a complete no-brainer. Not even close.

You might check out entry level Dynaudio at your price range. I haven't heard their lower-end stuff, but if it sounds anything like their better stuff.... neutral and detailed. (you might say warm, but that could be a misconception of sorts). Monitor Audio's entry level stuff is also warm, and is good at producing separated simultaneous timbres. However, its still not as transparent with better (pricier?) speakers. Hmmm, I would say its kind of like having the music be full of more "vivid colors", but you were enjoying them with sunglasses on, er, something like that... Anyways, Saturday Audio has the best deals I've found on MA stuff so far...

At your price range, there must sooooo many possibilities. Im sure if you glanced around at these forums, you would agree.

Actually, come to think of it, speaking of Monitor Audio, you might* be able to find the better Silver series new at that price. I believe an online friend I have at another forum got the RS6 for about that price. He tested against Paradigms (forget which) and BWs 6 series, and found these to be just as detailed, etc, while being less unforgiving/bright, and better looking. Of course, thats just one guy, and so am I....

trust your ears...

anymore thoughts on the arro vs quad 21L?