i poked around the panasonic website last week when purchasing dvd-ram discs and found this dvd recorder with 250GB hard drive.

would this unit work in the U.S? or is the tuner worthless over here?

any feedback would be appreciated

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Panasonic_DMR_EX_87__6710381

No, it has SCART connections and is on a UK site, so it's the wrong TV system for North America.

There are some Panasonic recorders for sale here, as well as Pioneers etc., including models no longer generally for sale in the U.S.

http://www.world-import.com/panasonic-dvd-r.htm

I bought a DP-5000 copy enhancer from this site, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. It appears that this company buys up models going off the market, among other things. I think they bought all the copy enhancers marketed by one company which was getting out of the business.

There are some Panasonic recorders for sale here, as well as Pioneers etc., including models no longer generally for sale in the U.S.

http://www.world-import.com/panasonic-dvd-r.htm

I bought a DP-5000 copy enhancer from this site, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. It appears that this company buys up models going off the market, among other things. I think they bought all the copy enhancers marketed by one company which was getting out of the business.

Apparently they don't have a NTSC, ATSC or QAM tuner that is US compatible. But you could use their S-video inputs to record from a cable or satellite tuner, or other source. No tvguide feature, but the 1080p output is nice for the few that can make use of it. IMO you are better off with the EH55 if you can find one.

Apparently they don't have a NTSC, ATSC or QAM tuner that is US compatible. But you could use their S-video inputs to record from a cable or satellite tuner, or other source. No tvguide feature, but the 1080p output is nice for the few that can make use of it. IMO you are better off with the EH55 if you can find one.

Trouble is, the EH55 is unavailable at anywhere near the the $550 price for the Panasonic EH-67 on sale at this site. Besides that, the euro has skyrocketed against the dollar in the last year, so that price is competitive with the 400 euro price tag the EH-67 has at Amazon Germany. I ordered one since my Panasonic E-80 is showing signs of tray loading fatigue and I can use the ATSC tuner feed from my Philips 3575 recorder.

I made a mistake this year not buying the Pioneer HDD DVD recorder before it went missing in April. I also did not buy a replacement Epson R-220 printer at about that time before Epson shut down production of the R-220 because generic ink cartridges were available. The USA is becoming a third world country when it comes to any technology that can remotely be used to infringe on the intellectual property rights of big corporations, who have politicians from both parties in their hip pockets, near their wallets.

I checked into the EH-67 at World Import after the original post myself. I thought it would be cool if I could use it and it would match my EZ17s. I downloaded the manual to verify it does not have an NTSC, ATSC or QAM tuner but can be set to NTSC mode for recording and playback. The TV guide feature is disabled in NTSC mode but you can manually record and timer record off of the S-Video/composite inputs. One word of warning, the S-Video/Composite inputs are on the front of the unit, behind a flip-down lid. There are only SCART connections and S-Video/composite outputs on the rear. Pretty much the final deal killer for me besides the crippled functionality when using a PAL recorder in the NTSC world.

Buy one of the Pioneers (like the ones at B&H Photo) instead. I believe they have the normal, U.S.-type connections in the back.

I checked into the EH-67 at World Import after the original post myself. I thought it would be cool if I could use it and it would match my EZ17s. I downloaded the manual to verify it does not have an NTSC, ATSC or QAM tuner but can be set to NTSC mode for recording and playback. The TV guide feature is disabled in NTSC mode but you can manually record and timer record off of the S-Video/composite inputs. One word of warning, the S-Video/Composite inputs are on the front of the unit, behind a flip-down lid. There are only SCART connections and S-Video/composite outputs on the rear. Pretty much the final deal killer for me besides the crippled functionality when using a PAL recorder in the NTSC world.

There is one set of A/V inputs in the rear of the EH-17, plus the S-video input. So the unit has a total of two sets of inputs, one behind the flip down lid in the front that you mention and one in the rear. So far the unit works fine, although I am not used to thumbnails, since I have a Panasonic E-80. The unit only has progressive scan output in PAL, a shortcoming I can easily live with.

Interesting... So the EH-67 you received from World Import had A/V & S-Video inputs on the rear of the unit? The manual I downloaded only showed outputs on the rear. In fact, to hook up a VCR for dubbing, they show you to hook it up to the inputs on the front panel. Having these inputs on the rear could change my mind!

PS. Does it have a switchable power supply? The manual only showed the European style 220V plug.

Since they are located in the Chicago area, I decided to check out their brick-and-mortar store on my day off.

It's not a large operation, maybe fifteen-twenty people. There was no showroom; several hundred various units in cartons were stacked on shelves in one area, and there was a good-sized electronic workbench area.

There were no display units to see, but the gentleman I spoke with, Victor, told me about a Pioneer that was up on the bench; pretty much what has been covered here.

Victor confirmed what I had suspected: they used to be located on Chicago's Devon Ave., which is home to much of Chicago's South Asian and Russian community. I think they're mostly oriented to immigrants who wish to view PAL and SEACAM movies.

Overall, I had a very favorable impression of the place.

Thanks for the info! Since you mentioned it, I decided to purchase the EH-67 from them. Victor was very helpful (very eager to sell) when corresponding thru email. But based on gerrytwo's experiences with them and the unit itself, I purchased it. It seems the manual I downloaded was for overseas use and did not mention the connections on the rear that gerrytwo found to be there.

Your first hand observations confirm my hunches about their operation. Their website was easy to order from and their communication excellent. I was emailed a shipping notice with tracking number a few hours later and it is due to arrive via UPS on Monday. So far, I am very pleased.

Since they are located in the Chicago area, I decided to check out their brick-and-mortar store on my day off.I see they're in Franklin Park. That's where I grew up! Lived in the area for 40 years.

I'm gonna take a ride out there as soon as I get a chance. I really would like to check out that 400 GB Pio model in person. I'm especially interested in it for the jukebox feature.

The 400GB Pioneer 745H has an NTSC M, PAL/Secam BG, I, D/K TV tuner built-in. NTSC M is the format used in the USA.

I too have been frantically looking for a replacement for my aging fleet of HD/DVD recorders (7 Panasonic, Pioneer, and Toshiba units, all wearing, worn, or on their 3rd repair). I tried one of those Walmart/RCA models, and other than being able to put in a big HD, it was total crap. So when I heard about these European/universal models, I got real excited, and when I saw a website selling an open-box DMR-EH65 for $124 less than the going price, I jumped on it. (Shortly after this, I realized that the newest model people were talking about is the DMR-EH67, but the only difference, from what I can see, is a 1080P HDMI output as opposed to 1080I. I don't think this will make any difference for playing back 480i DVDs, and according to the specs, this output only works in PAL, so that would make it of no use to me anyway).

The next day, I got a succession of phone calls from the vendor begging me NOT to buy the unit. (Perhaps they get a lot of returns from people who aren't quite sure of the format limitations of these machines). They told me the tuner wouldn't work (and I reminded them that no analog tuner would work in 16 months), and they advised that I'd need an external NTSC>PAL converter to record in PAL (which again, I don't need), and then they put someone on the phone who spoke English better to explain the whole thing to me again!

But I insisted that I really did want the machine so in a week I'll find out if it really can (or can't) do what I want.

Then just hours after confirming this order, a comment to an article about Amazon Marketplace's super high prices for Panasonic recorders ($2000) led me to the fact that Futureshop.ca in Canada is still selling a full range of HD/DVD recorders, including the popular Panasonic DMR-EH55 ! One would think this unit has an NTSC tuner (again, who cares) and may even be identical to the U.S. model. But with the U.S. dollar falling, the price was no bargain (except compared to Amazon Marketplace), so I convinced myself that I was still happy with my purchase of the European/universal model.

This question remains: is Futureshop selling old stock, or is Panasonic still selling the DMR-EH55 in Canada but not in the U.S. (presumably, because it lacks a digital tuner). And how can Panasonic divide the U.S. market for HD-less DVD recorders into SEVEN DIFFERENT MODELS and still have no room in their line for a serious model?? If they can sell 7 different models but still think sales of Hard Disk models are too slow, it could only be because they aren't promoting the benefits of the hard disk models adequately!

--Gary
P.s. Someone mentioned using the analog tuner in their old Philips DVD recorder with one of these new recorders. Be aware that most DVD recorders turn the signal from analog to digital and back to analog just to send it to the line outputs, and there's some degradation on this conversion (especially with the Philips machines I've tested). So you are much better off using an analog device, such as an old VCR, for a tuner.

I mentioned the Philips 3575, which has an ATSC tuner (and a mighty fine one at that), not an NTSC tuner as mentioned above. For anything but using the unit as a digital tuner or data storage on its 160 GB hard drive, the Philips is not up to par for me.

I saw that the price of the Panasonic EH-67 had gone from $549.00 to $599.00 on the World Import site. Now I know why.

Thanks to the original poster here who mentioned the availability of this unit.

Thumbnails are easy to get used to, and the unit has an option to show recordings in the hard drive in table view. Everything about the EH-67 shows that Panasonic could make a quality designed unit for sale in the United States if, IMHO, Panasonic was not hamstrung by threats from crooked U.S. politicians working for shyster lawyers (who are probably the politicians' law partners while the goniffs are in Washington D.C. looking for loose change).

IMHO, Panasonic was not hamstrung by threats from crooked U.S. politicians working for shyster lawyers (who are probably the politicians' law partners while the goniffs are in Washington D.C. looking for loose change).

I believe this makes more sense.

(from crave.cnet.com) Conspiracy theories are fun, but I think it's more likely that the increasingly small market for DVD-recorders with hard drives just wasn't worth it to manufacturers to keep producing them. DVR usage has boomed with cable companies offering them up for low monthly subscription costs, and that has severely limited the market for DVD-recorders with hard drives, which cost more than $500 upfront. It's possible that when manufacturers realized they would have had to spend extra engineering dollars to update the old models with an ATSC tuner, they figured it was time to cut their losses and stop producing the niche product. In fact, when the CNET home theater crew met with the Panasonic engineers and product managers responsible for DVD-recorders earlier this year, we asked them why they stopped making DVD-recorders with hard drives and their reaction was basically, "people still want those?"

Quoted from here:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9787239-1.html

This has consistently been the consensus opinion. And it appears even the opinion of the Panasonic engineers and product managers the CNET group met with.

But then again as the article states conspiracy theories are fun. Illogical but fun none the less. But you never know the Panasonic engineers and product managers could be under serious threats from the crooked politicians to keep their mouths shut. Yeah that's it. That's the ticket. That's got to be it! They must be lying to the CNET guys to protect their families. Yup that's the only logical explanation. They're coming to take me away haha. They're coming to take me away! To the funny farm where life is....!:eek:

One fact is certain: No one here has a pipeline to the executive suite at Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. headquarters. So quotes from other sites where someone makes guesses at why Panasonic is not releasing US versions of the EH-67 prove nothing. When Toshiba and Micron were in a memory chip price cutting war in the early 90s, Toshiba is reported to have lost over $2 billion to maintain market share. Micron, tired of losing money, threw in the towel. Later, Micron bailed out of the home computer business as well.

PBS Frontline had a show in 1991 called "Coming From Japan" that described how Panasonic went about wiping out its U.S. competitors in the television manufacturing business (show transcript at: http://www.totse.com/en/politics/economic_documents/pbsjapan.html). Panasonic had no problem then "dumping" TV sets on the US market to wipe out the local competition permanently.

Maybe someone here knows of another example of Panasonic walking away from a viable business, a business where it is a dominant force in the rest of the world. I can't think of one example. Moronic comments about "coming to take me away" and the like reflect badly on the poster.

As to politicians and honesty, in 1992 60 Minutes had a story on the young woman who testified about alleged atrocities committed by Iraqi troops in what was Iraq occupied Kuwait City. When she testified before Congress on events in Kuwait, about babies being killed in hospitals by soldiers and the like, her face was shielded, for her family in Kuwait's protection, so the story went. 60 Minutes reported that the young woman, who claimed to have seen these atrocities was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States and was reading a script prepared by Hill and Knowlton, a Washington, DC public relations firm. Her perjured testimony was used by Bush 39 to help justify the first Iraq invasion. Everyone at that Congressional hearing knew who she was, yet only her story went out, not the background information that she was living in the Kuwaiti embassy inside the Beltway, not in Kuwait City as she claimed.

You have to be a fool not to think that politicians are getting paid off, one way or another (campaign contributions, maybe, although not from Norman Hsu anymore) to block the sale of high quality HDD DVD recorders in the US. After all, how much would it cost Panasonic to retrofit one of its overseas recorders with an ATSC circuit board?

While I can understand a $500 hdd/dvd recorder having a difficult time in the market, what is so significant about the number "500"? Is it so impossible to make a $300 hdd/dvd recorder?...why not even $200? If they can make $50 dvd players that read every format under the sun, progressive output, and hdmi connections, shouldn't a $200 hdd/dvd recorder be a no brainer, by now?

Seems like there is more going on to this than hdd/dvd recorder products being pricey simply as a consequence of having an hdd inside them.

You have to be a fool not to think that politicians are getting paid off, one way or another (campaign contributions, maybe, although not from Norman Hsu anymore) to block the sale of high quality HDD DVD recorders in the US.

This is a joke right?

Politicians are being paid off to halt the sale of high quality DVD recorders with HDDs in the US? But low quality ones are OK? Why not just throw in a few more bucks to stop the sale of low quality DVD recorders with HDDs as well? That should be easy because they are of low quality and therefore nobody should want them.

How do you define high quality? Are the Panasonic 2007 recorders sold in the USA high quality? The 2007 Panasonic EZ series recorders are made in China. Slap a HDD in one and it is still made in China. Which some people may think defines low quality. I don't but some people do. It sounds like you do.

The Philips 3575 DVD recorder is manufactured by Funai. Funai is a Japanese company headquartered in Osaka Japan. The Philips is manufactured in China. Just like the EZ Panasonics. So is the Philips low quality? Why? Who decides? Looks a lot like the Panasonic manufacturing and distribution model to me. Japanese company. Made in China. Where's the difference?

And how is a politician to tell if the Philips is low quality and thus can be sold in the US? Do the politicians sit down with a remote and play around with the different brands of HDD DVD recorders and decide which ones are OK to sell and which ones are not? Or is there some sort of secret list of features that are allowed or not allowed?

And how do the politicians come up with the price to use their influence to halt the sale of Panasonic DVD recorders with HDDs for example? You said they are getting paid off right? Who pays them? And how does a manufacturer become unfortunate enough to get on the banned list? By breaking the banned "secret features" rules list perhaps? Sounds confusing. Sounds absurd.

Give me a break. These are standard definition DVD recorders. Yesterday's news. DVD recorders with hard drives are inconsequential to the likes of Panasonic. What ever happened to let the market decide.

While I can understand a $500 hdd/dvd recorder having a difficult time in the market, what is so significant about the number "500"? Is it so impossible to make a $300 hdd/dvd recorder?...why not even $200? If they can make $50 dvd players that read every format under the sun, progressive output, and hdmi connections, shouldn't a $200 hdd/dvd recorder be a no brainer, by now?

Seems like there is more going on to this than hdd/dvd recorder products being pricey simply as a consequence of having an hdd inside them.

Good point. There is a new Magnavox that was just released with a HDD and a digital tuner priced at $198. But I still think that if the average consumer has a choice between the $198 Magnavox and the $49.99 SV2000 (sans HDD) that they'll pick the SV2000.

Just look at most of the newer posters in this thread looking for a DVD recorder. Generally it goes something like this - "I need to record stuff off my DVR so I don't need a HDD DVD recorder. Can somebody recommend one." And the thread goes on to try convince the poster that they really need a DVD recorder with a HDD. For the average consumer who may not post here the DVD recorder at 25% of the cost of the one with the HDD (and as was posted in another thread only 20 bucks more than the cheapest DVD player) will probably wind up the shopping cart.

Do the politicians sit down with a remote and play around with the different brands of HDD DVD recorders and decide which ones are OK to sell and which ones are not? Or is there some sort of secret list of features that are allowed or not allowed?


This assumes a fact not in evidence, that politicians can actually think for themselves. In reality, they just think, and do, what they are paid to. :p:D

Seriously, I am not really buying into the conspiracy theory, but as others have pointed out, if it is profitable to market new HDD DVDRs in Canada, it HAS to be profitable to do it in the US, even with a much smaller market share, because the US is a much larger market. So, I think there has to be more to it that we know. But, I quite agree that most people who have never used a DVDR with a HDD have not a clue how much they would like it.

But, I quite agree that most people who have never used a DVDR with a HDD have not a clue how much they would like it.

I think that point really cuts to the core of the predicament. Maybe they just don't get it, and that is why they cannot justify the higher price, even if the price is not that high in absolute terms. It is just a damn shame, imo. I have used an hdd/dvd recorder for a while now when I retired my vcr, and I could never imagine going back to a dvd-only recorder. The hdd just makes so many things SO much easier and convenient to accomplish when it comes to editing stuff down and archiving.

...but then how do other CE products seem to succeed with tiers of simplicity? (not asking you, directly- addressing the general public, now) Not everything else has degenerated to product/pricepoints that address only the lowest-common-denominator of user/buyer. Naturally, there is always a basic model, but then there are several tiers of more advanced models at increasing pricepoints (for those customers who are looking for a bit "more"). These multi-tiers of choices with viable pricing models have existed for a long time. Why should hdd/dvd recorders suddenly not be able to fit into this model? It seems there have always been customers (beyond just a niche crowd) willing to buy "more advanced" models just because they are fancy and have bigger numbers, even if they don't "get it" (regarding the inherent functionality which truly justifies its reason to be).

Most simply, surely the reason can't simply be that buyers don't "get it" when it comes to hdd/dvd recorders?...

Well as someone looking to enter into the market for a DVD recorder, I do indeed want one with a HDD, and i already have a DVR in my tv setup. It really is frustrating for someone in my position as to the lack of decent HDD-DVD-Recorders out there to buy.

Also, after a bit of reading, i want to get not only as reliable a machine as possible, but with an extended warranty and bought from a reliable seller too. To do all this over the internet leaves me with not too many options.

I have four needs from a new HDD-DVD-Recorder:
1. MiniDV via DV to HDD to DVD
2. VHS via S-Vid/Composite to HDD to DVD
3. DVD via S-Vid/Composite to HDD to DVD (or just DVD to HDD)
4. DVR via S-Vid/Composite to HDD to DVD

Because of what i want the DVD-Recorder for, i almost don't need any kind of tuner inside of it, just the basic S-Video, Composite, Component and DV in/outputs, so for me this lack of choice is a little annoying.

One of the only new machines i can get is the Philips 3575, which with extended warranty will likey cost $350. Would anybody suggest spending a bit extra at a place like world-import for a better machine (Pioneer or older Panasonic), or is the 3575 good?
Oh yeah - i did want to get a HDD-DVD-Recorder that can do Dual-Layer Recording but that's almost out of the question. Only places like world-import seem to sell such machines, hence why any input as to their reliability would be appreciated.

Thanks for hearing my two cents.

Disco Al

I have a pansonic DMR-EH50 I just replaced with an HD-DVD player. I never used all its features. Well really never used any and hardly watchd dvds on it. If anyone is interested in it let me know. I have the box and original papers and everything. Just shoot me a pm or something. Rather see it go to a good home.

Disco al, I love my Pio 640 so much, that if I were in the market for another DVDR with HDD, and had the $, I would buy an international model from B&H Photo/Video. They have several models, with various size HDDs. The only drawback is that you can't get a manufacturer's warranty, only a B&H warranty, I think for 90 days. Given what I have read here about the Philips, the Pios are better machines.

I took the plunge and got TWO new imported models, one Panasonic and one Pioneer. Model numbers are DMR-EH67 and DVR-550HS. I got them both from US dealers at reasonable prices (not as cheap as regular USA machines). They both work great, they both do exactly what I expect from an HD/DVD recorder (except for the DD/MM/YY, 24-hour time, and "Queen's English"), and I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for a replacement for a Panasonic or Pioneer HD/DVD recorder. And BTW, they have TONS of inputs and outputs, expecially if you buy some SCART>RCA/SVideo adaptors for the Panasonic.

--Gary

Have you been able to record closed caption text with your Panasonic EH-67 HDD & DVD recorder? I can't, probably because only the US and Canada use line 21 of the VBI to store closed caption text. Panasonic could have left the ability to record line 21 in, but apparently chose not to.

....except for the DD/MM/YY, 24-hour time....Exactly what do you mean by this, and is there a problem that would prevent you from setting timer recordings in the US in any way?

In the US we use MM/DD/YY as in today is 11/27/07. In Europe they use DD/MM/YY, so today would be 27/11/07.

It just takes getting used to. Especially when the day of the month is 12 or less. So the 4th of July, 2008 would be 7/4/08 here, but would be 4/7/08 in Europe, which could be confused with April 7, 2008.

Same with 24-hour clock -- just takes getting used to.

As long as you realize this, setting timer recordings should be fine.

...they have TONS of inputs and outputs, expecially if you buy some SCART>RCA/SVideo adaptors for the Panasonic.
--Gary

Just wondering what, if any, SCART adapters you tried on the Panasonic? I always thought SCART was RGB but recent research showed that the original SCART was composite. I found a company that sells a SCART adapter that allows S-Video on a SCART connector in color rather than B&W. Just curious what your results were with the SCART connectors on the Panny. I would like to convert the SCART in/out on my recently purchased 67 to S-Video rather than leave them sit dormant.

I believe this makes more sense.



Quoted from here:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9787239-1.html

This has consistently been the consensus opinion. And it appears even the opinion of the Panasonic engineers and product managers the CNET group met with.

But then again as the article states conspiracy theories are fun. Illogical but fun none the less. But you never know the Panasonic engineers and product managers could be under serious threats from the crooked politicians to keep their mouths shut. Yeah that's it. That's the ticket. That's got to be it! They must be lying to the CNET guys to protect their families. Yup that's the only logical explanation. They're coming to take me away haha. They're coming to take me away! To the funny farm where life is....!:eek:

I think the studios & advertisers here in the US are in kahoots with the DVD recorder manufactures for these reasons:

A unit with a hard drives allows us easy editing for removing commercials prior to burning to disk, as most record the show by timer remove commercials burn to disk then watch. Advertisers dont like this one.

Once burned to disk no need to buy that title at walmart, this reduces sales and the studios dont like it.

One can argue that DVR you can ffast forward and dont have to watch commercials, but we are paying a monthly fee $5. ea times 50 million units, that 250 million dollars a month, hum profits for studios and advetisers as well as the middle man.

Also with DVR you cannot keep everything, in time you must delete to make room for more programming.

If the US people dont wake up we will eventually loose the home DVD recorders altogether!

I love my eh55 even purchased the extended 3 year warrenty. I am looking for another hard drive based recorder before they are gone forever.

Just my 2 cents on conspericy, later Bruce

I bought two "American to SCART" cables from this URL:

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/Scart-Cables-p-1-c-274.html?gclid=CPrCxNSpzI8CFRsFagodWiA_-A

One of them is 3 RCAs > SCART, the other is 2 RCAs + S-Video > SCART.
Both cables have a small switch that selects whether they work as input or output.
There is a menu feature on the Panasonic recorder which selects whether Video or
S-Video is active.

The cables are under $20 each in 6-foot length (any many other lengths are available), and they also had an RGB > SCART but I didn't need one of those.

Also, as another writer pointed out, the Pioneer, but not the Panasonic, does have an NTSC tuner which would presumably work in America, although you would have to fashion a special cable for the input jack. (Cut one end off the included RF cable and replace it with an F-59 connector). I haven't tried the tuner since Analog TV isn't one of my usual sources...

--Gary

World-Import sells a little RF adapter that you use with it for 5 bucks.

I think the studios & advertisers here in the US are in kahoots with the DVD recorder manufactures for these reasons:

A unit with a hard drives allows us easy editing for removing commercials prior to burning to disk, as most record the show by timer remove commercials burn to disk then watch. Advertisers dont like this one.

Once burned to disk no need to buy that title at walmart, this reduces sales and the studios dont like it.

One can argue that DVR you can ffast forward and dont have to watch commercials, but we are paying a monthly fee $5. ea times 50 million units, that 250 million dollars a month, hum profits for studios and advetisers as well as the middle man.

Also with DVR you cannot keep everything, in time you must delete to make room for more programming.

If the US people dont wake up we will eventually loose the home DVD recorders altogether!

I love my eh55 even purchased the extended 3 year warrenty. I am looking for another hard drive based recorder before they are gone forever.

Just my 2 cents on conspericy, later Bruce

Perhaps. But most +VR non HDD DVD recorders allow you to edit out commercials. You are essentially "hiding" them so there is a PQ hit as far as bit rate is concerned. What bothers me more than commercials is all of the banner nonsense that flys across the screen. The "coming up next" stuff for example. This you cannot edit out - with or without a HDD.

As was posted by another poster - it makes no sense to eliminate the HDD and keep the burner if content proliferation is the concern. It is counter intuitive. Eliminating the HDD reduces the price of a DVD recorder down to the point where just about anybody can afford them. They become Walmart impulse buys. Why would those concerned about digital rights feel comfortable with a sub $100 DVD recorder with shelf space at every Walmart but be fearful of a $400 DVD recorder with a HDD? And remember these DVD recorders are all standard definition. Standard definition is yesterday's news. Wrong century.

Add to this the fact that there are DVD recorders with HDDs being sold. The higher end manufacturers decided to exit. It wasn't a huge space for them. But new DVD recorders with HDDs are still being sold by the likes of Philips, Magnavox and Polaroid.

There is a menu feature on the Panasonic recorder which selects whether Video or
S-Video is active.

Thanks for the update Gary. Just the bit of info I was looking for. I had found these adapters as well; guaranteed to provide a color signal via S-Video:
http://www.svideo.com/

My research on the net showed that there was an extra pin in the SCART connector that worked in conjunction with the original composite video pin to provide seperated chrominance and luminance outputs on a SCART connector. Luminance would be output on the standard composite video pin and chrominance on the newly defined pin. They made it sound, however, like it was a non-standard modern addition to the SCART standard. If not supported by the device, one would be stuck with composite video only. If not supported by the adaptor, one would only get B&W composite video. I am glad Panasonic included this feature in their SCART connector.

I took the plunge and got TWO new imported models, one Panasonic and one Pioneer. Model numbers are DMR-EH67 and DVR-550HS. I got them both from US dealers at reasonable prices (not as cheap as regular USA machines). They both work great, they both do exactly what I expect from an HD/DVD recorder (except for the DD/MM/YY, 24-hour time, and "Queen's English"), and I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for a replacement for a Panasonic or Pioneer HD/DVD recorder. And BTW, they have TONS of inputs and outputs, expecially if you buy some SCART>RCA/SVideo adaptors for the Panasonic.

--Gary
GAry ive been looking at the PIONEER DVR-550HS . Does this 1) use a US outlet, 2) have an IR blaster or some mechanism so that it automatically changes to the channel you want to record in case youre away, 3) play and record at the same time 4) record TO the HDD (from home DVDs) as well as HDD to DVD? 5) play in stereo (i actually came across a model that doesnt so...) thanks for your help.

Yes to all the above except the IR blaster - I don't think it has this feature, but I've never used an IR blaster. I program my satellite receiver(s) to change the channel on their own - I think this is more reliable.

Also, since my previous review I discovered that you CAN change the date format to MM/DD/YY with AM/PM time... it's in the same menu where you set the time, but instead of choosing "auto" or "manual," you choose "DISPLAY" and you can change this.

As far as the power plug and voltage, the voltage is just fine without an adaptor. Mine came with a somewhat funky plug adaptor, but if you don't like that solution, the power cord is detachable at the back of the machine, and you probably already have a US power cord that will fit.

Speaking of jacks, word is that this machine DOES have an NTSC-USA compatible tuner, although the RF jacks are not US-style. (It does include RF cables that you could cut the plug off one end and put on a standard F-connector). I haven't tried to use the tuner.

Overall, I'm very happy with this machine and like it slightly better than the world Panasonic I bought at the same time. But, it does have a few of the same bugs/limitations as the last model that Pioneer imported. Specifically: Finalized discs do NOT automatically show the menu when you put them in a DVD player -- you have to press a "title" or "top menu" button to get the menu. A real drag because the machine makes nice menus!

The other problem is that if you record in LP speed to a DVD-RW, the resulting track CANNOT be high-speed dubbed to the hard disk and then onto a DVD-R. Only LP tracks recorded originally to the hard disk can be dubbed like this. This machine gives the "full-rez LP" so it's a shame it doesn't work completely. There's no problem with tracks recorded to DVD-RW in SP, and in LP you can record from HD to DVD-RW then back to the HD and then to a DVD-R, as long as the track was originally recorded to the HD.

But one very cool thing, this unit CAN high-speed dub tracks recorded to a DVD-RAM by Panasonic and Toshiba HD-DVD recorders (as can other Pioneers), including, tracks recorded in LP speed directly to a DVD-RAM on a Panasonic machine. So, the Pioneer is the most "universal" of the three brands.

One other problem - the black level settings, as it shipped, were wrong for my setup. Of course, my setup could be wrong. So you might want to double-check these (try playing back a pre-recorded disc with dark scenes).

Also, this machine recognizes 16:9 tracks but there's no way to manually tell it you're recording 16:9, so if you record HiDef from the output of a satellite receiver, your discs will still think they are 4:3. This isn't a problem at all as long as you're playing them back on a widescreen TV.

The new Panasonic lets you set the machine manually to 16:9 mode so you can actually burn discs that will auto-letterbox on a 4:3 TV. (The Toshiba does this too). But, sometimes I think the feature is more trouble than it's worth, because I keep forgetting to turn it off when I'm recording regular programming. Also, there's a BIG bug on the Panasonic that it won't let you high-speed dub 16:9 tracks recorded in LP, or playlists, and I think it also doesn't work for FR speed - and of course this includes tracks ACCIDENTALLY recorded in 16:9 !! The work-around is to dub the track to a -RAM, then dub it to the hard disk on an older Panasonic machine, and then back to RAM. This doesn't kill the 16:9 flag, but somehow (thank goodness) it gets around the "can't dub" bug.

Also, it's worth noting that the track titles on DVD-RAM written by the new Panasonic machine aren't compatible with earlier Panasonics... no text shows up when you play or dub the discs on even the most recent Panasonic U.S. DVD-Hard Disk models.

--Gary

I don't know if you tried this or not, but I've noticed (while using an ez-17 model of Pana), that the widescreen flag is set according to how the tv output setting is set. If you have it set for 4:3 interlaced, then it the widescreen flag is NOT set, but if you have it set for 16:9 interlaced, then the widescreen flag IS set. I have no idea if this works across the board for Pana recorder models or even if it may be a exclusive function to the built-in digital tuner models (it would not surprise me, if the latter was true).

gdavisloop-Thanks for the follow up, nice to hear how things turned out. In regards to widescreen flags being set on current Pannys, that would be a resounding NO. I've used many Pannys, all the way to the current EZ-28 model and I can tell you for a fact that the WS flag is NOT set. My Hanky is correct on one part though. Changing the setup for a 16:9 TV does allow the machine to record the full 16:9 frame from a HD broadcast. If you have yours setup for 4:3 the machine will only record the 4:3 part of a broadcast, even if recording from a 16:9 program. It just truncates the sides, but again even if you have the output set for 16:9 if you then take that the recorded disc and play it in on a 4:3 TV the image will be vertically stretched. Tall thin people. The only exception to this(yes there always has to be an exception:D) RAM discs. Panasonics do, and I believe always did, set the flag when recording to RAM discs. I've read that the new Toshibas do set the flag, but I can't verify it since I've never actually used one or seen a disc recorded by one.

Oh and one more thing, Gary if your interested you can buy a RF adapter to convert your European RF plug to the American standard. It's available at Radio shack for about $5, or at least was 10 years ago when I purchased one for a couple bucks. I also bastardized a cable to make one, but it's much nicer to get a all in one plug and not that expensive. PM me if you want the part number and I can look it up.

gary thanks. The IR blaster is a must for me as I have a cable box. The search goes on...
Steph.

gary thanks. The IR blaster is a must for me as I have a cable box. The search goes on...
Steph.The current LG's use an IR blaster.

Thanks Rammitinski. I hear the LG LRH-880 is in mono only.
I dont know if the RH387-M can play in the US (ive seen it only on the canadian site) and futureshop has some poor reviews.

And I can find no info on the LG LRH-539

Any thoughts?

I just got off the phone with LG. they said none of their product line with HDD have IR blasters. Where'd you hear differently?

and one more q: very naive of me but do some get cable without a box? And so the IR blaster wouldnt be needed? The tech has advanced so much since my last need to look into this stuff Im afraid I dont know and every time i do research it turns into infinite regression with regard to new things to have to study. im not a techie so dont have that time to invest so your help is greatly appreciated.

and one more q: very naive of me but do some get cable without a box? And so the IR blaster wouldnt be needed? The tech has advanced so much since my last need to look into this stuff Im afraid I dont know and every time i do research it turns into infinite regression with regard to new things to have to study. im not a techie so dont have that time to invest so your help is greatly appreciated.
Yes, DVDRs with a digital ATSC/QAM tuner can tune cable channels that are NOT scrambled... some cablecos scramble none of their basic analog or digital channels, some scramble only PPV which isn't included in your monthly sub. fee, and some scramble ALL digital channels. You'd have to find a neighbor or someone who will tell what channels are scrambled in your system.

Here's a post on my Philips DVDR3575H/37 that describes some of the channel tuning aspects that prob. apply to any DVDR w/digital tuners? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12470932&postcount=131)

im pretty no frills. I want my cable tv and my subscription channels, and I want my dvd/hdd. So from what I gather, the DVDrs you mention (do you included those with HDDs?) can only tune in those unscrambled non subscription channels? In the case you describe, you basically put the cable line right into the dvd/hdd recorder so long as it has a ATSC/QAM tuner?

im pretty no frills. I want my cable tv and my subscription channels, and I want my dvd/hdd. So from what I gather, the DVDrs you mention (do you included those with HDDs?) can only tune in those unscrambled non subscription channels? In the case you describe, you basically put the cable line right into the dvd/hdd recorder so long as it has a ATSC/QAM tuner?
No, you'll get your "subscription" channels as long as they're not SCRAMBLED. If your read that post I linked for you, I subscribe to basic analog cable and my 3575s can tune all 47 analog channels I subscribe to, as well as 8 of the cableco's digital HD channels, which they charge more for and call it the "Digital Tier" and it also "requires" their $9/mo. box... well, it doesn't. I get them anyway.

So, it depends on your cabelco, etc. on how many and what OTHER channels you'll get, but *most" people can tune the channels they include in their basic subscription, but any pay-per-view are, of course, scrambled, and people don't PAY anything for them in their normal subscription... they're charged as an extra-cost item as you sign up to watch them.

i appreciate your time. you see what i mean..every time i try to research an issue, some underlying thing comes up i have to learn about. one last question (though it will probably lead to more but i wont bore you). from what i read if your set is dig cable ready, the cable provide can install a cablecard to unscramble protected channels. From WIKI I read "CableCARD is a plug-in card approximately the size of a credit card that allows consumers in the United States to view and record digital cable television channels on digital video recorders, personal computers and televisions without the use of other equipment such as a set top box (STB) provided by a cable television company."

If this is the case, can you then user the HDD/DVD to get all the channels you subscribe to and tune them in so you can record without an IR blaster? Thank again for your time.

Some (maybe all) cablecos want to get an extra $10 from you per month to rent their box, which can tune digital channels above the 135 we can tune with our TVs and DVDRs. What we actually can receive, even on an analog subscription, are SOME of the digital channels that remain "in-the-clear" and mapped to the channel range we CAN tune with our TVs and DVDRs. Those are the ones you'll be able to tune with a DVDR directly.

Cablecos scramble channels also to force you to rent their box, and some are scrambled cuz they're "extra-premium" pay-per-view shows, like boxing or other big one-time events.

I think they have to keep at least the local channels in-the-clear per some FCC rule (?)

I think only TIVO has some units that accept cable cards, and even then, the cableco has to agree to "activate" them for you, and some cablecos will RENT them to you like their STBs, but you have to have a cable-card-ready machine to use them in... not many around yet.

thanks. seems id have to ask the cable companies if 1) i could get subscription channels on a QAM tuner (i never get PPV) with a card and then 2) the dvd folks to see if i could then get a card to make it GET those channels. I think ill stick with the toshiba and the old fashion IR blaster... Thanks, wajo.

I just got off the phone with LG. they said none of their product line with HDD have IR blasters. Where'd you hear differently?Sorry, I didn't know you meant only HDD recorders. Their non-HDD, U.S. DVD and DVD/VHS Recorders are the ones with IR blasters.

Thanks Rammitinski!
Steph

THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO CABLE BOXES! I am using the new "HD-Cable-TiVo" which for $300+monthly fee lets you throw away your cable box and record both analog and scrambled digital cable channels onto the TiVo, and then on to an HD-DVD recorder. In this way, you don't need an IR blaster, and you get around many other limitations of the cable box, for example, you can expand the hard drives in this TiVo the same as any other TiVo. (Note: this is not like the old analog TiVos that required the TiVo *and* the cable box; this replaces your cable box).

The big problem the TiVo solves is this: It is very difficult to find a high-def cable box that will output an anamorphically squeezed picture for recording to a DVD recorder. The TiVo does this, no questions asked!

Also, my cable company DVR made a very mechanical hum, and the TiVo doesn't.

The main drawback to the TiVo is you can't get On Demand or other interactive services... although at present almost none of the on-demand on my cable is in HD or even in SP quality, more like sub-LP quality.

--Gary

i dont do tivo. I have no desire for an extra subscription and I want to be able to burn things from the hard drive to DVD and vice versa.

any one know if the tosh RD-KX50 has a blaster?

I believe mines did come with one, but I never installed it for use, though.

jjeff was saying something recently that a couple of the newer, tunerless Panasonics also used IR blasters. I think one of them was available at Target. No HDD, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway.

Steph - are you sure that your cable box doesn't have it's own event timer? Pretty much all satellite tuners do, and I think that at least some cable boxes do, too.

Check and make sure, because if it does, you won't even need the IR blaster. You just synch the timers on the cable box and the recorder then.

Um, I dont know. Yet another things to learn. I suppose maybe the thing to do is call RCN. Rammitinski, can you tell me a little about that? I cant imagine people would use DVD/HDDs if you cant auto change channels while youre away.

I believe mines did come with one, but I never installed it for use, though.

Thanks Mr. H.

this helped me out with some of the stuff you guys were talking about. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/26/technology/circuits/26basics.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Um, I dont know. Yet another things to learn. I suppose maybe the thing to do is call RCN. Rammitinski, can you tell me a little about that? I cant imagine people would use DVD/HDDs if you cant auto change channels while youre away.OK, I'm looking around online, and it appears that some RCN boxes do have a feature which can be accessed in the menu called "Record to VCR". That should be it. Or else look for something specifically called "Timers". You should be able to find out through something called either one of those if you can set event timers.

With that method you would program the timers for the shows you want to record on the tuner (and it will automatically change to each of those channels and programs), and you set the timers on the recorder to start and stop at the same time. This is the method that most people use to record off of their cable or satellite boxes nowadays, since they stopped making IR blaster-capable recorders. In fact, it's because the event timer feature is in so many external tuners now that they did stop making IR blaster units. It's actually more reliable using the box timer. There can occasionally be problems using IR blasters.

If you do decide to call RCN and ask them for help, don't be surprised if they're more interested in trying to upsell/rent you their DVR, rather than go out of there way too much to help you to use a no-fee, standalone device. At least ask to talk to a technician rather than the first line customer service rep.

(edit: I just looked at the RCN PDF manual online again, and it's called "Set Event Timers" in the Interactive Program Guide menu. It looks like it's talking about the non-DVR digital tuner, but it's so condensed with information that I'm not 100% positive. If you don't have the manual, you can access it online.)

that's helpful info, thanks Rammitinski. Appreciated!