Have re-posted here from the 2-Channel forum.

I recently ordered a pair of Wilson Duette speakers and am looking for an amp, pre-amp and dac to pair with them.

My dealer is recommending a Naim system. Either Naim SuperNait (which is an 80Wpc integrated amplifier with a DAC) or separate components (Naim NAP 250 amp, also 80wpc and NAC 282 pre-amp) that are roughly double the price of the integrated solution.

The cost comparison is roughly double when comparing the integrated solution (SuperNait $5k) and separates (NAP 250, NAC 252 $12k).

Here's my question.

How does an 80Wpc amp like Naim compare to something like the Bel Canto REF1000 at 500Wpc coupled with the Bel Canto DAC3? The full system price points are comparable so I'm wondering what is the value difference between the two systems.

How does Naim stack up against comparably priced components that offer 150wpc or even 200wpc?

I realize it's down to my ear but it's difficult to hear all combinations of components with the Wilsons because that ultimately depends on what the Wilson dealers actually sell.

Any advice appreciated as well as helping me understand how much wpc matters in terms of evaluating amplifiers.

Have re-posted here from the 2-Channel forum.

I recently ordered a pair of Wilson Duette speakers and am looking for an amp, pre-amp and dac to pair with them.

My dealer is recommending a Naim system. Either Naim SuperNait (which is an 80Wpc integrated amplifier with a DAC) or separate components (Naim NAP 250 amp, also 80wpc and NAC 282 pre-amp) that are roughly double the price of the integrated solution.

The cost comparison is roughly double when comparing the integrated solution (SuperNait $5k) and separates (NAP 250, NAC 252 $12k).

Here's my question.

How does an 80Wpc amp like Naim compare to something like the Bel Canto REF1000 at 500Wpc coupled with the Bel Canto DAC3? The full system price points are comparable so I'm wondering what is the value difference between the two systems.

How does Naim stack up against comparably priced components that offer 150wpc or even 200wpc?

I realize it's down to my ear but it's difficult to hear all combinations of components with the Wilsons because that ultimately depends on what the Wilson dealers actually sell.

Any advice appreciated as well as helping me understand how much wpc matters in terms of evaluating amplifiers.

I heard the Wilson Duette speakers with an Audio Research VS110 power amp connect direct to a Wadia 581. The sound was astonishing, one of the most musical I have ever heard. It also sounded good with integrated amps from Krell (KAV 400Xi) and Primaluna, but not as good as with the combination of Audio Research & Wadia. the source was Krell's SACD.

I heard the Wilson Duette speakers with an Audio Research VS110 power amp connect direct to a Wadia 581. The sound was astonishing, one of the most musical I have ever heard. It also sounded good with integrated amps from Krell (KAV 400Xi) and Primaluna, but not as good as with the combination of Audio Research & Wadia. the source was Krell's SACD.

Thanks for the feedback! I had not considered tube amps. I appreciate having some concrete examples to research now.

I did listen to the Naim SuperNait and also the NAP 500.

The best way I can describe the NAP 500 is that it handled the music in an effortless fashion. I put in a Yo Yo Ma's Japanese Melodies and Pan Sonic's Katodivaihe; the latter can evoke distortion in a speaker/amp combination not up to the task. The NAP 500 handled both effortlessly. I would say the SuperNait registered the detail but it didn't have quite the presence as the NAP 500. Of course the NAP 500 is 25k and the SuperNait 5k so you'd expect something to be different. :)

I'm going to demo the SuperNait with upgraded power supply (Flat Cap or above) but then the price point goes up anywhere from 30-100%.

This is why I'm contemplating other choices.

with the Wilson Cub II i ran a Cary SLP 98 into a V12-R. Lovely combo, but a touch too euphonic for my tastes these days.

instead of the Nait, I would probably opt for the BAT 300xSE. Bargain and more powerful.

Sounds like you visited Innovative Audio, GREAT GUYS!! I loved the naim sound, but hated the fact that you have to buy all these different components to get everything to work properly. That said, when I demod Naim stuff against Spectral, Levinson and Krell I thought the Naim blew them away in the same price range.

I've now properly demoed the Naim SuperNait + HiCap as well as the NAC 282/NAP 250/HiCap. The level of detail and sound stage revealed by the 282/250 combination was very compelling with the Duettes.

The SuperNait is a very nice product; however, I am going with the Naim 282/250/HiCap solution with the Duettes.

I've actually heard the full combination of equipment (speakers, cables, amp, pre-amp) with the music I hear and I must say the experience was satisfying.

Thanks for your insights.

I have a pair of Duettes and love them. Before I bought them, I listened to them extensively on Nagra gear and also compared them to Sophia IIs and WP8s. The Duette's were outstanding and really held up well next to the larger Wilson speakers. While I was waiting for the Duette's to arrive, I purchased a pair of Bel Canto eRef 1000s over the Internet and brought them to the Wilson dealer to audition them with the Wilson speakers and also to compare them with various Nagra and VTL tube amps. I really preferrred the Bel Cantos and thus kept them beyond the trial period. I am using them now with a Transporter running fully balanced directly into them (I do not recommend running the TP directly into the Bel Cantos using the balanced outs). The sound in my listening room was equal to if not better than the same set-up (in my room) with the Nagra Preamp and also was roughly equal to the same set-up with an Ayre C-5xe as the source.

Now that all of the gear is broken in I find that the system could use some bass help/correction, a little tube warmth and some preamp control (these are minor nits). I am thinking about adding an Audio Research Reference 3 preamp to correct most of these issues. I suspect it will outperform the Nagra (which I love). I recently heard the Reference 3 through Reference 210s driving Sophia IIs. It was spooky great.

I am also considering TacT and Lyngdorf room correction/control units (but am concerned about what appear to be below ref quality DACs), an Altmann Attraction DAC (although it may have problems with the TacT and Lyngdorf units), a JL Audio Fathom or two, anti-cable ZERO autoformers http://www.zeroimpedance.com/products.html (to raise the impedance above 4 ohms), etc. So many choices!

I'd try an NAD M3 integrated, despite its value price. Aside from pure sound quality with no audible noise, the selectable high pass filters could come in handy if you ever want to add a sub or two.

I've auditioned the NAD, but not with Wilson speakers. It was good, but unfortunately not in the same class.

i've had the Nagra preamp in my system and much preferred the BAT preamp i had at the time---thought the Nagra was a bit too stale for my tastes. i've never heard the Ref 3 in my system, but previous ARC preamps were more ss in nature to my ears.

you just need to figure out how much tube you want (CJ and 1 end, ARC at the other for example)

btw, anyone know how the Duette sounds compared to the old Cub II?