I see several threads here about surge suppression and mentions to do it at the main panel. Are there recommendations for a particular brand or unit? I want to have something at the point of entry on the 200 Amp panel.

Equi=tech

http://www.equitech.com/products/industrial/wall.html

Maybe not the whole house, but most of it! -- 20WQ

That looks great, thanks. But I already have the panel. I was looking for just a surge suppressor for the panel. Like anything else, there are quite a few of them out there. Here are a few that I've found, but I know nothing about this stuff:
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=174
http://www.smarthome.com/4870.html
http://www.surgeassure.com/product.aspx?prod=TE/1RI
http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=25&sec=detail&id=16&ly=v
http://www.lightningarresters.com/surge.html
http://www.masternet1.com/SHOCKUSA/cat5_1.htm
http://www.polyphaser.com/productdata.apsx?class=pm
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/SurgeProtection/PrimaryProtectionServiceEntrance/index.htm
http://ecatalog.squared.com/catalog/174/html/sections/06/17406005.html

That looks great, thanks. But I already have the panel. I was looking for just a surge suppressor for the panel. Like anything else, there are quite a few of them out there. Here are a few that I've found, but I know nothing about this stuff:
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=174
http://www.smarthome.com/4870.html
http://www.surgeassure.com/product.aspx?prod=TE/1RI
http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=25&sec=detail&id=16&ly=v
http://www.lightningarresters.com/surge.html
http://www.masternet1.com/SHOCKUSA/cat5_1.htm
http://www.polyphaser.com/productdata.apsx?class=pm
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/SurgeProtection/PrimaryProtectionServiceEntrance/index.htm

The APC is out because of the slim info in the specs.
The Intermatic looks OK, protects multiple phases but clamps higher than most.
The TE/1RI is out because of price and limited specs.
Ditto for the Leviton.
Panamax is a good product but twice as much as the Intermatic.
Syscom SYC-120/240TC looks a little flaky, only 2 combinations protected.
Shock USA looks pricey and no better protection.
Polyphaser has few specs and no pricing, mostmodels listed as not in stock.
Can't find the Eaton for purchase, but it looks nice, likely pricey.

Looks like the Panamx or the Intermatic are the obvious choices from the info in these links.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply! Any recommendations on units not in the list? This was just what I found hunting around the internet.

Looks like the Eaton units range from $200-$500

It really comes down to where you live and if you have clean power coming into the house. If you don't have a lot of surges, and your power is clean, I wouldn't worry about it, esp. if it's new construction.

If you expect a lightning storm, unplug all sensitive electronic devices from the wall completely.

Thoughts on this product line?
http://deltasurgeprotectors.com/

It really comes down to where you live and if you have clean power coming into the house. If you don't have a lot of surges, and your power is clean, I wouldn't worry about it, esp. if it's new construction.

If you expect a lightning storm, unplug all sensitive electronic devices from the wall completely.

Curt, how does this help me choose a surge suppressor?

I'm very surprised with the amount of participation on the other surge suppressor threads that there is apparrantly very little knowledge of actual surge suppressor units here.

As to the Delta products, there are no specifications that I can see on these products, which makes them questionable at best.

What Curt is doing is asking in a round about way why you are looking for one. there is much misinformation on the market as to why they are "needed"

For whole house suppression, you really are best calling some larger electrical contractors to see what they suggest. you are likely looking for a scaled down commercial unit. there is nobody who is going to specifically make a unit for residential usage. the market is just not large enough. So look for a small or scaled back commercial unit.

The Deltas look like they may be a good solution. although i am sure they have tech specs if you contact them.

I know that I need surge suppression as the grid power is not good here. Constant surges, brownouts, and momentary blackouts are the norm. There are quite a few residential units out there, hence the problem choosing one. I will consult an electrician, thanks for the tip.

for the bownouts and such, you may want to look into a large UPS type of setup, or even a generator backup. as in all things, your budget will determine what you get. however there are many great options. I seem to recall from a recent thread that TheBland went wih a generator backup and was very happy.

What Dizz said. I've seen that brownouts can cause as many problems as power spikes, esp. when it comes to things like equipment retaining memory. And as Dizz said, a very large UPS might be the way to go. Industrial units are out there, but the cost of the battery replacement is prohibitive every 5- 7 years.

I have to say one thing I've noticed out here in Georgetown is that we seem less prone to serious extended blackouts, but more prone to surges (particularly due to lightning storms) and momentary blackouts (some with no apparent weather-related cause). It's definitely enough to make me want to consider a more aggressive power protection scheme such as an online UPS for at least some of my more sensitive equipment.

I'm definitely going to use line-interactive UPS units for all of my electronics, but I also want to arrest surge/lightning at the source for the highest level of protection.

I'm definitely going to use line-interactive UPS units for all of my electronics, but I also want to arrest surge/lightning at the source for the highest level of protection.

My power company here in Florida offers whole house surge protection at a cost of monthly expense added to my power bill.

THe thread title sshould almost be changed to something like "Dealing with home electricity in areas with issues"

That will stop the "power conditioners suck!" part and open up the good convo about actually dealing with real issues.

Good idea :cool:

I think that I've decided on the Eaton solution as it seems to be the most "heavy-duty". Plus they also have a cable entry and telephone entry suppressor, which I will get. I will also be using UPS units:
HT System: APC S15 or J15, haven't decided yet
HTPC: APC BT1500
POE CATV/Modem/Router/Switch: Tripplite Smart1000LCD
Main PC: Tripplite OmniVS1500
2 Other PCs have Tripplite OmniSmart700 units

Love the new title... :D

I have to say one thing I've noticed out here in Georgetown is that we seem less prone to serious extended blackouts, but more prone to surges (particularly due to lightning storms) and momentary blackouts (some with no apparent weather-related cause). It's definitely enough to make me want to consider a more aggressive power protection scheme such as an online UPS for at least some of my more sensitive equipment.

They have things on 3 phase lines, called reclosers (basically a high voltage circuit breaker), they can operate on whats called 3 shot or one shot when people are working on that particular circuit. A limb for instance could fall out of a tree and cause a operation, a squirrel or bird hell I have seen a fish operate the line( cars hit poles too it goes on and on). With all of you Doctorate people in this forum, you fail to mention that any surge protection is only as good as its ground which usally sucks at most peoples house's, take an ohm meter and see if you get less than 20 ohms resistance between your rod and meter can ground better yet have your electrician do it. Surges a word used way to much here, unless you have a open neutral or a lineman drops a high voltage phase on your service. The power company spends a lot of money on regulators, capacitors to keep the electricity within certain parameters 3% to 5% for commercial I believe, and 7% to 8% for residential. If you feel you are below that have the power company hang voltage recorders, just remember you may have 118 volts per phase at peak times and a 123 volts at night. Mr. Grant how do you define a surge from lightning, usally you would need a direct hit or at least within a few poles from your house and then you most likely would have some kind of damage, I live in the lightning capital of the world we have arrestors on every third pole, on all transformers, all ground rods are 20 ohms or less, lightning is looking for the easiest path to ground not your house.

With all of you Doctorate people in this forum,You sound like the guy who thinks I can fix his VCR just because I have a degree in EE! Anyone here got a doctorate in power engineering? Not me!Mr. Grant how do you define a surge from lightning,I define it as one or more of my breakers tripping during a lightning storm. I'm not saying that lightning is hitting my house, but I am saying that such storms affect our power somehow. Someone else is welcome to tell me why that is.

You sound like the guy who thinks I can fix his VCR just because I have a degree in EE! Anyone here got a doctorate in power engineering? Not me!I define it as one or more of my breakers tripping during a lightning storm. I'm not saying that lightning is hitting my house, but I am saying that such storms affect our power somehow. Someone else is welcome to tell me why that is.

Hmmm that's a first for me, does it ever happen at any time beside a lightning storm, you might want to have an electrician look at your panel, it bypasses your main breaker and trips just a certain few? The same breakers every time? Maybe the main line blinks out, and when said breakers see what ever load is on them all at once its to much? If its the same breakers I would swap them out with some new ones, or check connections to them weird problem. I would like to here more.

They have things on 3 phase lines, called reclosers (basically a high voltage circuit breaker), they can operate on whats called 3 shot or one shot when people are working on that particular circuit.

The reclosers can provide what we call a 'switching spike' to occur on the line. This switching is done at the medium voltage level and the subseqent spike at your panel (after passing through the step down transformer) is generally low enough to become a non issue.

With all of you Doctorate people in this forum, you fail to mention that any surge protection is only as good as its ground which usally sucks at most peoples house's, take an ohm meter and see if you get less than 20 ohms resistance between your rod and meter can ground better yet have your electrician do it.

You are correct, surge suppression requires a decent ground system to operate properly. However, most residential grounding systems use a bond at the incoming water system as well as a driven ground rod....which is generally not a bad ground system. I have tested a number of residential systems....the bond at the water system is generally quite good.

Surges a word used way to much here, unless you have a open neutral or a lineman drops a high voltage phase on your service. The power company spends a lot of money on regulators, capacitors to keep the electricity within certain parameters 3% to 5% for commercial I believe, and 7% to 8% for residential.

The electric company is typically required to maintain voltage levels at plus/minus 10% of nominal voltage for all customers... local commerce commission tariffs regulate what those are for your location.

Mr. Grant how do you define a surge from lightning, usally you would need a direct hit or at least within a few poles from your house and then you most likely would have some kind of damage, I live in the lightning capital of the world we have arrestors on every third pole, on all transformers, all ground rods are 20 ohms or less, lightning is looking for the easiest path to ground not your house.

I am not Mr. Grant, but a lightning strike does not have be direct to cause damage. A lightning strike within a few hundred yards of electrical equipment will cause a large electromagnetic field to form which will 'induce' a voltage on nearby metallic components.... acting like an antenna. Overvoltage conditions can be found on equipment quite distant from the actual lightning strike due to the voltage gradient produced by a distant lightning strike.

Hmmm that's a first for me, does it ever happen at any time beside a lightning storm, you might want to have an electrician look at your panel, it bypasses your main breaker and trips just a certain few? The same breakers every time? Maybe the main line blinks out, and when said breakers see what ever load is on them all at once its to much? If its the same breakers I would swap them out with some new ones, or check connections to them weird problem. I would like to here more.



Circuit breakers operate independant of voltage. You must have an overcurrent condition for the circuit breakers to operate. I recommend inspection and possible testing/replacement of your circuit breakers.

I never said it had to be direct several poles away is about a hundred yards that's what I said, I am not sure what you call quite a distance and I think this has to do with how well the distribution system is set up in your town. I have also tested many ground rods and found most of them lacking but this is in Florida soil conditions affect this greatly, and yes an EM field is created whether or not its a couple of hundred yards wide I really can not say, but if strike is close enough it can even fry unplugged equipment. The voltage tolerances I stated were for my area since I was a lineman here for 15 years, the numbers are from memory but we were under 10% and less of a tolerance for commercial businesses that had 3 phase motors.

Circuit breakers operate independant of voltage. You must have an overcurrent condition for the circuit breakers to operate. I recommend inspection and possible testing/replacement of your circuit breakers.

Did I not just recommend that to him?:confused:

Yes, you did---indeed it is the same breakers every time. I have been considering having them replaced, but by my reckoning they are also the most heavily loaded circuits, so I kind of expected they'd be more sensitive to surges of current.

With all of you Doctorate people in this forum, you fail to mention that any surge protection is only as good as its ground which usally sucks at most peoples house's, take an ohm meter and see if you get less than 20 ohms resistance between your rod and meter can ground better yet have your electrician do it.

Some us have been preaching the importance of grounding for years, including here on AVS. You need to understand, however, that surge suppressors work by dumping to whichever side is low when the voltage across the MOVs rises to a high enough level. That may be ground or not, and even if the ground is compromised, they may still work. Not as effectively, but they can still clamp if all combinations are protected.

BTW, I have a MS, not a doc, and about 3 decades of fixing damaged equipment in Loiusiana and Florida.

Some us have been preaching the importance of grounding for years, including here on AVS. You need to understand, however, that surge suppressors work by dumping to whichever side is low when the voltage across the MOVs rises to a high enough level. That may be ground or not, and even if the ground is compromised, they may still work. Not as effectively, but they can still clamp if all combinations are protected.

BTW, I have a MS, not a doc, and about 3 decades of fixing damaged equipment in Loiusiana and Florida.

Yep just like a GFI can still work without a dedicated ground(of course you must mark it as such to meet NEC), I was thinking more of a home lightning arrestor, that juice wants to go to ground the least resistance path is where its going, also its good in case you run into a open neutral situation I have seen a lot of equipment fried this way, especially in coastal areas where you still see copper to aluminum connections a big no no.

I was thinking more of a home lightning arrestor, that juice wants to go to ground the least resistance path is where its going

Of course thats why you want to make that path easy for the surge....through the surge suppressor.

Yep just like a GFI can still work without a dedicated ground(of course you must mark it as such to meet NEC), I was thinking more of a home lightning arrestor, that juice wants to go to ground the least resistance path is where its going, also its good in case you run into a open neutral situation I have seen a lot of equipment fried this way, especially in coastal areas where you still see copper to aluminum connections a big no no.

A lightning arrestor will do nothing for an open neutral. Lightning arrestors are typically spark gaps. The only thing that will protect against an open neutral is a system that disconnects when voltages are above or below a certain range.

A lightning arrestor will do nothing for an open neutral. Lightning arrestors are typically spark gaps. The only thing that will protect against an open neutral is a system that disconnects when voltages are above or below a certain range.

We were having an ongoing discusion I was talking about the ground rod in an earlier post, can help if you get an open netural on your incoming feed, if your rod is good enough it can still help balance the load, I have seen this real world, Lightning arrestors I have only insalled a thousand or so.