I’d like to start off and thank Neo Dan on his thread “IXL 18 meets the ‘Easy Button’ " (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=875108). This feed one of my objectives which are mentioned below and was my inspiration for this project.. After talking to SteveCallas further I was convinced this would be a perfect little project with some minor modifications to suit my requirements for the build.

.:My Objectives/Requirements:.
As much as Neo Dan’s design is “simple” I wanted to refine it even further, making it even simpler. Less cutting, etc.

My second objective was cost. I wanted to get into the LLT game without spending a fortune. SteveCallas helped me solidify this decision. Thanks.

My last objective was around mobility of materials for construction. As I don’t have a truck or access to anyone with a minivan I wanted to be able to haul all parts/materials with my car.

.:Core Materials:.

1 18” Mach5Audio IXL18.4: Currently one of the best bang of the buck subs available. This facilitated the cost objective. Although there are better drivers, very few are close to this price tag [$235 shipped] and deliver similar performance with as much displacement.

Leaning on NEO Dan’s design I liked the use of MDF over a SonoTube for 1 reason only. Mobility. Back to objective #3. I can transport planks of MDF easily within my car, putting the seats down. A 24” sonotube unfortunately wouldn’t fit. :(

.: Design :.

Back to the whole “make it easier” objective. My local Home Depot sells pre-cut 48x24 [Actually 49.5x24] sheets of ¾” MDF. Although I own a table saw, having the wood precut with precise measurements IMHO is a head start. Less work of me having to cut them precisely myself + no MDF dust cleanup. Bonus..

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/Photo_090807_003.jpg

So if I use 4 of these sheets for the outer sides I’m going to need 2 additional 24”x22.5” planks for the end pieces. I choose to buy 1 additional precut 48x24 sheet and had Home Depot cut this 49.5” long plank twice yielding 2 22.5x24” end pieces. In and out of Home Depot in 10 mins. Piece of cake, no cutting, no having the wife complain about asking her to “hold the MDF” as I run it through the table saw.. You get the gist..

So to recap, I purchased 5 precut 48x24 [Really 49.5x24”] sheets and used 1 of the 5 sheets utilizing Home Depots saw to cut 2, 24x22.5” end caps.

.:Primitive Paper Design:.
I've spent some time taking the Google SketchUp tutorials but still don't posess the necessary skills that others have. My replacement is pen and paper: http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IXL18_4_LLT_HighLevelDesign.jpg

So without displacement of bracing, ports and driver, internal volume is 424.8 liters or 15 cu feet.

After discussion with Steve Callas he recommended an enclosure size of around 400 liters with 3 4” 34” ports tuned to 14hz.

So adding the displacement of the driver and these 3 ports the internal volume Vb stands at 391 liters. (I have still yet to add some bracing which I will equate later)

As for the finish, I really liked tregarza’s final product (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11773241) using a ¼” round over bit and black Dura Color bedliner spray for the final finish. I’ve completed many car audio enclosures using speaker carpet which looks great in an automotive environment but I really seem to think the bedliner spray suits a home theater sub. Regardless of the outer finish, I think it’s going to be hard to disguise a 15 cu foot enclosure.

Here's a pic of Tregarza’s final product using dura color bedliner spray:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=90011&d=1190244110


I’m planning on powering this sub with an EP2500. This should be ample power with room for growth if I plan to add another one. Where's the best deal going these days for a brand new EP2500?


.:Outstanding Questions:.

1) Where can I find black PVC pipe? My local Home Depot seems to only sell the white stuff. Also, will they cut it to size for me? I've also seen much mention in some threads about Schedule 40 PVC Pipe or "Quick Pipe"? What is this?

2) Which type of liquid nails is everyone using? In my past car audio projects I’ve always used the “Interior Projects” type. Wasn’t sure if there was better stuff more suited for MDF and PVC.

3) As I am planning on purchasing the EP2500, will I need an EQ? Anyone running a Panasonic XR55? Does it have enough preout voltage to feed the EP2500 pro amp? Any suggestions on how to feed the EP2500 from the receiver?

4) T-Nuts or Hurricane nuts or Plain old 1-5/8 drywall screws directly into MDF?

5) Where can I source a cheap plunge router and round over bits? Some of the folks over at fatwallet recommended these cheap bits (http://www.homier.com/detail.asp?SessionKey=L8V0E1nytCISMsqXLmN%2beBiBLEOz6PPUHZJ8 6XZKHlFNvRQN6Du8sepKZ%2fQSmFrhC6hhXXPfg2Dd&dpt=&cat=&sku=04721) I was looking at buying the Craftsman 9.5 amp 1-3/4 HP Plunge router (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917540000P) which is on sale for $59 until tomorrow. Will this fit the bill or are there better routers out there for the same price or a little more?

6) Bracing.. This is a touchy subject for me. Coming from the car audio world bracing was rarely used and if it was, it was minimal, even for large 20+ cu foot enclosures. Browsing many of the DIY HT forums it's apparent bracing in some cases IMHO looks way overkill for the application. Iggster, if you're reading this, perhaps you can shed some light as I know you're into the DB Drag scene as I was. Anyone got some suggestions on bracing without going overkill?

6) Can the IXL18.4 be oriented in a down firing orientation?

According to Parts Express, here's the formula to calculate sag: Percentage of Sag = 24,849 / ( Xmax * Fs²)

Sag% = 24,849 / (22 * 17.7^2)
Sag% = 24,849 / (22 * 313.29)
Sag% = 24,849 / 6892.38
Sag% = 3.61

Is it true if sag is less than 5% this is suitable for a down firing application?


7) If I do down fire the sub, how much room (gap) should be left between the IXL18.4 sub and the baseplate or floor?

8) In many of my past car audio enclosures where space was a concern, port bends were common, especially in slot ported instances. Hypothetically speaking, How much impact would be brought to this project if I bent the ports in a 90 degree angle?

Last but not least, I welcome everyones ideas and suggestions.

Some Build pics so far:


http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2484.jpg

The recommendation's from users here of TiteBond II glue makes a dramatic difference in the set times for the clamping. Just how long is everyone waiting for the glue to set anyways?

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2485.jpg




PS. If you're in need of some aluminum bar clamps, Harbor Freight has them on sale this week. I bought the 36" ones shown for $4.99.

Nice work!
definately got to give you a big thumbs up for using the handi panels to expand on the easy button theme. looks like that ought to turn out nice too.:)


Later
Dan

I ended up waiting 24 hours for the TiteBond II glue to dry. I wasn't sure if you can continue clamping other pieces together before waiting a full day for the glue to dry?

In any case, more progress. The other side now glued and clamped. Unless I hear otherwise I'll wait another 24 hours.

I still need to figure out which router and bits to buy. Any recommendations? I'd also welcome some answers on the bracing.

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2488.jpg

There is no right answer for this stuff, just opinions...

The glue really depends on the glue type, temperature, humidity, working material and clamping. You have to use your judgement on a case by case basis.

As far as bracing goes, I would use 3-5 braces parallel with the ends then fill in a couple between those. Even if you only went with 3 it would really be plenty. The more you use the more inert the cabinet, but the heavier it gets too. The law of diminishing returns takes effect very quickly here.

I am sure there are a couple of pictures floating around. I will see if I can link one.

If you want to use t-nuts, you will want to put a sheet of plywood inside or at the very least wood blocks where the bolts and nuts are coming through. MDF is not very stable where screws and nuts are concerned.

Just about any type of Liquid Nails will work fine. The interior projects is will do nicely.

If you put any screws in ANY panels, make sure you pre-drill the holes.

You may or may not need an EQ, it will depend on your in room response. You won't know until you try it out.

I would get a 1/4" round over bit just to take the sharp edges off. You really don't want to remove too much material.

Here is a quick example of bracing around ports and driver. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11850353)

You don't have to make it overly complicated. Just make them so air flows easily.

I still need to figure out which router and bits to buy. Any recommendations? I'd also welcome some answers on the bracing.

I have this same Craftsman router and it's been great!..soft start and enough power to handle these type projects with ease. I have many pro quality tools and I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of this router. For bits, this set from EDM is a good starter set. Whatever you decide, be sure to get 1/2" shanks.

http://www.edmwi.com/home/edm/page_344_32/router_bit_set___35_piece___12_inch_shank.html

Warmon -

I have this same Craftsman router and it's been great!..soft start and enough power to handle these type projects with ease. I have many pro quality tools and I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of this router. For bits, this set from EDM is a good starter set. Whatever you decide, be sure to get 1/2" shanks.

http://www.edmwi.com/home/edm/page_344_32/router_bit_set___35_piece___12_inch_shank.html

Warmon -

Excellent :). Thanks for the review.

I'm going to purchase that router online right now!

Check this thread (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/soundsplinter/3916-dual-rl-p18-llt-begun.html) out as well.

Check this thread (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/soundsplinter/3916-dual-rl-p18-llt-begun.html) out as well.

Excellent! This is exactly the kind of bracing I was thinking about. Minimalistic but still strong without consuming to much internal displacement.

Thanks for your help!

Excellent! This is exactly the kind of bracing I was thinking about. Minimalistic but still strong without consuming to much internal displacement.

Thanks for your help!

No problem! Keep us updated on your progress.:)

Excellent! This is exactly the kind of bracing I was thinking about. Minimalistic but still strong without consuming to much internal displacement.

Thanks for your help!This kind of bracing is fundamentally worthless.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/soundsplinter/2655d1174351838-dual-rl-p18-llt-begun-p1000103.jpg

The idea with bracing is to lock together all the surfaces in the box. This is why 'window' bracing is used.

Well, it can certainly be done differently or at least improved upon that is for sure.

If I remember correctly, this build continued with additional cross braces being added by suggestion from other members.

That finished design (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/soundsplinter/2918d1176091151-dual-rl-p18-llt-begun-p1000123.jpg) is a flexible flyer because.....

In either compression or expansion MDF has ZERO strength. It's claim to fame is being cheap, having high mass and machining nicely. Large expanese of MDF need a lot of bracing. When that's not done the wall vibrate (they become passive radiators) and the effect is the vibrations interfere with the output from the woofer.

There are much better designs on the web to use as reference....

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/tehbigshow/inside.jpg

If one can't brace like this, they should build a tube sub...

Slowwwly making progress...


http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2491.jpg

I gotta do some thinking about the bracing.

In either compression or expansion MDF has ZERO strength. It's claim to fame is being cheap, having high mass and machining nicely. Large expanese of MDF need a lot of bracing. When that's not done the wall vibrate (they become passive radiators) and the effect is the vibrations interfere with the output from the woofer.

There are much better designs on the web to use as reference.

Zero strength? Sounds like a bit of exaggeration to me, but I get your point. I too was concerned about the "stick" bracing used in that guy's dual RL-P18 build.

I don't see those $4.99 clamps on Harbor. They're $7.99.

Zero strength? Sounds like a bit of exaggeration to me, but I get your point. I too was concerned about the "stick" bracing used in that guy's dual RL-P18 build.

Ya, just use some common sense. Just cut extra end panels and use a hole saw or router to make holes in them or when cutting out a panel to hold the driver make a couple of extras.

It is not rocket science. Check out many of the commercial subs, (albeit smaller in size usually) some of them have little braces in the form of a couple of dowel rods, aor absolutely no bracing. So, throwing in 2 or 3 or 4 will do wonders. Don't feel the need to go out of control just put a couple in there and glue them in nice and secure. They work best if they are touching all sides.

Ya, just use some common sense. Just cut extra end panels and use a hole saw or router to make holes in them or when cutting out a panel to hold the driver make a couple of extras.

It is not rocket science. Check out many of the commercial subs, (albeit smaller in size usually) some of them have little braces in the form of a couple of dowel rods, aor absolutely no bracing. So, throwing in 2 or 3 or 4 will do wonders. Don't feel the need to go out of control just put a couple in there and glue them in nice and secure. They work best if they are touching all sides.

True. My Velodyne DLS-5000R had no bracing. Coming from a $1000 retail sub, I would have expected atleast some dado joints..

True. My Velodyne DLS-5000R had no bracing. Coming from a $1000 retail sub, I would have expected atleast some dado joints..

Of course, the goal is to build things better than commercial here. But, that is not difficult with just a couple of window braces.;)

I don't see those $4.99 clamps on Harbor. They're $7.99.

Yeah, really weird, their website doesn't reflect the in store sale price. I picked up these clamps on Monday. They had 48" clamps for $5.99 but had none in stock. :(. They also had some 36" rachet clamps for $6.99.

If Harbor Freight is close, I'd check it out if you need some clamps.

PS. Odd Lots seems to have the cheapest bar/pipe clamps. $5.00. Harbor Freight sells identical ones for $7.99

Anyone know the actual depth of the IXL18 from behind mounting plate to base of magnet?

I'm trying to determine the best orientation for the sub and port. Ideally I'd prefer to have the sub down firing and the ports outlets are at the opposing end of the enclosure. Similar to SonoSub designs.

With 34" length ports and a total interior length of 48", If the IXL is mounted flush how much room will there be between the end of the port and the magnet on the driver?

Is this going to leave enough room?

Ideas?

Anyone know the actual depth of the IXL18 from behind mounting plate to base of magnet?



Good question, you may have to contact them. Although, I am sue it is less than 12" including breathing room.

You could also position the ports closer to the corners of the box and perhaps avoid the magnet if there isn't enough clearance. Just go and buy another sheet or two of that same mdf and cut them into pieces that fit snugly inside your box on all sides. Then use a hole saw, jig saw, or that router you ordered to cut a generous number of holes on the braces. Make sure you have holes where the ports will pass through. I would put at least 3 braces spaced evenly, I'm not sure more would help but it doesn't hurt. Just be aware that mdf will kick your butt if you try to hole saw very many times, that stuff is dense.

You could also position the ports closer to the corners of the box and perhaps avoid the magnet if there isn't enough clearance. Just go and buy another sheet or two of that same mdf and cut them into pieces that fit snugly inside your box on all sides. Then use a hole saw, jig saw, or that router you ordered to cut a generous number of holes on the braces. Make sure you have holes where the ports will pass through. I would put at least 3 braces spaced evenly, I'm not sure more would help but it doesn't hurt. Just be aware that mdf will kick your butt if you try to hole saw very many times, that stuff is dense.


Good thoughts.

I was thinking about using a hole saw. Are you saying its difficult or that it wears down the hole saw rendering it useless?

I appreciate your help.

Good question, you may have to contact them. Although, I am sue it is less than 12" including breathing room.

How much breathing room do I need between the end of the port and the back of the driver (magnet back)?

Also, I started thinking alot about the bracing today. I'm thinking the easiest way todo this would be to create 3 sets of 3 holes. a 5" hole will give me 1.75" worth of wood between the holes and the edge of the bracing. Is this too constrictive for airflow? Would I be better off using 6" holes which would yield 1" between the holes and the edge of the bracing? Is 1" strong enough?

I got going with SketchUp tonight. Below is an illustration of what I am planning. In this case its a 1.75" wood gap using 5" holes.

Or should I completely scrap the multiple holes idea and instead cut out a large circle?

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/ProposedBracing5InchHoles.jpg

You get more air flow with one big circle or "window" type. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11207376#post11207376

So if I have 3 4" ports how much room should there minimally be left between the end of the port inside the box and another obstruction, say the back of the subwoofer?

Yeah... what vitod said. ;)

I initially was going to use large-circle "rib" style of bracing, but now I switched to "window" style bracing. Steve Callus suggested window style bracing has a better strength to volume ratio, so I drew it up both ways and came to the conclusion that he was right. The small-hole "swiss cheese" approach, while strong, doesn't make efficient use of the space. Plus it's a lot of work to cut (and radius) all those holes.

Here (http://s16v.com/subwoofer/subwoofer-box-v15a.png) is what my bracing looks like now.

Yeah... what vitod said. ;)

I initially was going to use large-circle "rib" style of bracing, but now I switched to "window" style bracing. Steve Callus suggested window style bracing has a better strength to volume ratio, so I drew it up both ways and came to the conclusion that he was right. The small-hole "swiss cheese" approach, while strong, doesn't make efficient use of the space. Plus it's a lot of work to cut (and radius) all those holes.

Here (http://s16v.com/subwoofer/subwoofer-box-v15a.png) is what my bracing looks like now.

WOW! You rock at Sketchup. Great design. I love that bracing. You going to cut it out with a jigsaw then route the edges or?

WOW! You rock at Sketchup. Great design. I love that bracing. You going to cut it out with a jigsaw then route the edges or?

Thanks. Very time consuming to do a detailed model in Sketchup, but I think it is worth the effort.

I don't have a jigsaw so I will probably use the router even for the straight edges of the window bracing.

I don't have a jigsaw so I will probably use the router even for the straight edges of the window bracing.

Maybe its time to pick one up? You don't have to spend much, and it would make more sense to spend the $$$ on it rather than than the money on more router bits. :)

Maybe its time to pick one up? You don't have to spend much, and it would make more sense to spend the $$$ on it rather than than the money on more router bits. :)

You're probably right. I got a 1/4" straight router bit (Bosch, 1/2 shank, carbide tipped) for $15 at the local tool store. I have no idea how fast it will wear out cutting MDF, though. Jigsaw makes sense and will definitely produce less dust!

OK... enough "talking" here. I just printed out a bunch of panels from my Sketchup drawing and I'm headed down to the garage to fire up the saw! :D

Wish me luck.

soo

I really would like to downfire this sub and have the 3, 4" diam x 34" length port outlets on the opposing wall similar to SonoSub's. (sub on the bottom, port outlets on the top)

That would leave 5.75" between the subs magnet and the end of the ports.

Is that enough room?

Will there be interference having the ports 5.75" directly behind the subwoofer driver?

My IXL18.4 arrived.

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2497.jpg

And for anyone else questioning the actual depth of the IXL18.4, here's a pic that shows the height next to a tape measure:

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2502.jpg

Still pondering around my open question (above) regarding the spacing between the the back of the sub and the end of the port, wondering if 5.75" will be enough clearance for the 3, 4" ports?

Wow... that looks like the exact same frame casting as the RL-P18 uses. Just different paint.

I think thats how these 18's have gotten cheaper as the years go by...

The hardware for them is replicated more often, I would assume. Other than the motors, its the softparts that get all the R&D work. ;)

mynym ... what happened to your love for JL products ?!?! :p just playing ... happy to see you are coming over to the dark side

good luck with everything

mynym ... what happened to your love for JL products ?!?! :p just playing ... happy to see you are coming over to the dark side

good luck with everything

You've got a great memory. As you and many others have preached you can achieve far superior performance at a fraction of the cost going the DIY route.

With the growing competition it's great to see the prices of these drivers coming down. I would have never thought I would see the day of an 18" sub with an SD of 1029 sq cm, XMAX of 22mm for $235 shipped.

I am extreamely impressed by the Mach5Audio offering.

Oh yeah..

What are people using to mount these beasts? Hurricain nuts? Do they have matching screws? Got any recommendations on size (diam/length) for these?

10-32's work well with my RLp18's. I would assume that they would work the same with the IXL18.

10-32's work well with my RLp18's. I would assume that they would work the same with the IXL18.

Excellent. Thanks Scott.

PS. I am very envious of your dual RLP-18s. I can only imagine how complete your theater now is with those two twin coffins. :)

So I have a funny story to tell.

On the weekend I was at Lowes spec'ing out more materials for the project. I eyeballed a 10' long 4" black ABS pipe which would be perfect if I cut it to make 3 ports. After talking to one of Lowes associates they mentioned that they don't cut the pipe but if I came back during the week he'd get a hacksaw and cut it for me. As I only have a car I had to have the pipe cut.

Anyways. I go back tonight, find another associate and tell him the story that I was there on the weekend and that I wanted to have the pipe cut. He says 1 sec, goes around to the purchasing counter and hands me a hacksaw. Perfect. So I head back and find myself some pipe and begin cutting in the middle of the isle while other shoppers roam around me.

With the noise it's making a few other associates eyeball me and the guy who I spoke to on the weekend comes over and stares at me for a few seconds as I continue to saw away. He then proceeds to say "Excuse sir, what are you doing?" I then explained to him that I was cutting the pipe. He then asked "Where I got the saw from".. At this point I was half tempted to tell him I just went over to the hardware dept and got one but instead decided to let him know another employee authorized my usage of the saw and gave me it to use. The associate is pissed at this point and grabs the saw from my hand and says "He'll cut it".

So he then gets down on the ground with me as I hold the pipe steady in the middle of the plumping section. Hacking away at the pipe.

Maybe not as funny as I type it but I felt it was pretty hilarious while it was happening.


I found it was kinda difficult to cut the pipe accurately all the way around, having the ends meet while keeping the cut at 90 degrees. What are people using to cut ABS pipe perfectly?

Most of us use sonotube for the ports, but I also use a hacksaw when cutting PVC.

You could use one of those saws that are on the hinge that you lift up and then bring down to cut (miter saw?). If you need to smooth the ends out now that they might be a little hacked up, you can use a belt sander. Fire it up and just press it flat on until it evens out nicely.

That is a hilarious story though. And for how angry the guy was, the reaction to "I got the saw from the saw aisle" would have been priceless.

With the growing competition it's great to see the prices of these drivers coming down. I would have never thought I would see the day of an 18" sub with an SD of 1029 sq cm, XMAX of 22mm for $235 shipped.

Strange how they don't list the Xmax on their web site (Sound Solutions Audio). What's the Xmech on this driver?

How's the box coming along? Any new pictures?

Strange how they don't list the Xmax on their web site (Sound Solutions Audio). What's the Xmech on this driver?

How's the box coming along? Any new pictures?

I believe the xmech is 26mm.

Okay. So I've been thinking about the bracing and handling of the long 34" ports.

Before I did any more cutting/glueing I wanted to ensure the design was perfect.

Below are some Sketchup drawings of what I am thinking. Note that the orientation of the subwoofer will be vertical similar to a SonoSub. In my drawings it does not include the dowels and base plate at the end where the sub is located. I welcome peoples comments/advice on this design:

A couple questions.

1) Around the perimeter of the bracing I am leaving 1.5". Could I go thinner? or is 1.5" okay? Does this current bracing I am proposing restrict the airflow to much?

2) Does having the internal ends of the port being flush mounted to the bracing add any adverse effects?

3) Is 5.75" between the end of the port and the back of the driver enough room?

4) How much room should be left between the face of where the subwoofer is and the base plate? Basically how long should the dowels be?

5) I'm leaving 2 5/8" inches in between the ports and the side walls. Is this suffice or should I move the ports closer together, more towards the center leaving more room? What is the effect if the ports are very close together?

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/IXL18_4Sketchup_draft_2.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/IXL18_4Sketchup_draft_4.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/IXL18_4Sketchup_draft_1.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/IXL18_4Sketchup_draft_3.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/IXL18_4Sketchup_draft_5.jpg


Better shot of the bracing itself:

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/InternalBracing_1_5_Inch.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/InternalBracing_1_5_Inch2.jpg

1) 1.5" is fine.

2) Make that wall of the enclosure where the port openings are two layers of material thick and then create a 3/4" roundover at the port openings to act as a flare.

3) Yes.

4) I'd go no less than 4".

5) Move the ports a little closer together - you don't want a wall obstructing the air flow into the interior port openings. Ideally you'd have 4" between the port openings and the nearest wall in all directions. If you use a 3/4" roundover at the port openings, the distance between the ports only needs to be a tiny bit over 1.5", say 1 5/8".

Looks good otherwise.

1) 1.5" is fine.

2) Make that wall of the enclosure where the port openings are two layers of material thick and then create a 3/4" roundover at the port openings to act as a flare.

3) Yes.

4) I'd go no less than 4".

5) Move the ports a little closer together - you don't want a wall obstructing the air flow into the interior port openings. Ideally you'd have 4" between the port openings and the nearest wall in all directions. If you use a 3/4" roundover at the port openings, the distance between the ports only needs to be a tiny bit over 1.5", say 1 5/8".

Looks good otherwise.


Thanks for the insight.

In regards to #5. If I didn't do a 3/4" roundover on the port endings internal to the enclosure, what am I looking at as far as distance between the ports?

Thanks again for all your help.

I still probably wouldn't go less than 1.5". The roundovers may seem like an insignificant detail, but they will keep any potential chuffing further out at bay on the most demanding scenes.

Okay, 2 designs,

Design 1: 1.75" between ports, 3.5" from port to side wall
Design 2: 1.5" between ports, 3.75 from port to wall.

Neither one of these is optimal, leaving 4" between the side wall and the port.Assuming I don't round over either ends, which would be better?


Design 1: 1.75" between ports, 3.5" from port to wall.
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/InternalBracingPortsCloser_1_75_Inch.jpg

Design 2: 1.5" between ports, 3.75" from port to wall.
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/InternalBracingPortsCloser_1_5_Inch.jpg

I noticed that BassBox pro reflects that having two flush ends as the vent end type apparently lowers the tuning freq. I am guessing that it has something todo with the end correction calculation?

Below are two screenshots. One with a single flush end reflecting a 14.25hz where as the two flush ends reflect 13.7hz. Not a major difference but still.

Anyone got a technical explanation for this?

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/VentEndTypeFlushEnd.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/Mach5AudioIXL184Design/VentEndTypeTwoFlushEnds.jpg

Go with design #2. If you measure from the wall to the actual port opening (not the edge or exterior surface of the port tube), it's exactly 4 inches so you're golden.

If you're going to do a 3/4" radius on the port outlets, which I do recommend, you will need another piece of MDF behind the panel that gets the radius. This panel will but cut to the port tube O.D. and serve to hold the tube(s) in place. On the panel that gets the radius, you must cut holes the same size or slightly smaller than the inner diameter of the port tube. The roller bearing on the rounding bit will ride on the inner surface of the port tube so the radius will match nicely with the inner edge of the port tube.

Hope all that makes sense. ;)

I think the difference in tuning is becase when you have a flare the entire length of the tube is no longer used, only about half of the flare is actually considered "in the port"

I managed to cut out the interior braces this past weekend. I discovered that that my router jig isn't cabable of making small holes (4.5"). So I ended up making the cuts with the jig saw, making them a little larger than the diameter of the 4.5" ABS pipe. This way it will give me some room to move when I'm fitting them through the tight port ends. I'll end up securing them with some small pieces of stock wood and liquid nails.

* Edited substituting with Photobucket image:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/IMG_2536.jpg?t=1193707896


Also, I started thinking about the end result and figured I'd cover the 3 ports with some grills.

I was looking at these at Parts Express: 5 1/4" black snap on grills (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-420).

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/260-420m.jpg.

Anyone had experience with these? Will they be to intrusive causing port whistle/noise?


I wish Parts Express was a little more explicit on their details, outlining the actual diameter (inside/outside)

A lot of us use those, myself included, but I don't possibly see how you could make three fit if you are trying to minimize the distance between the ports :confused:

Anyone know what's going on with AVS?

They are blocking all of my images.. Replacing some of the path with *******

http://www.derekreynolds.com********/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2536.jpg

Anyone know what's going on with AVS?

They are blocking all of my images.. Replacing some of the path with *******

http://www.derekreynolds.com********/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2536.jpg

I think when the link gets too long, it gets modified...

Also wanted to report that I ended up returning my Craftsman router to Sears opting to get a more powerful 2 1/4 Skil 1825 with the multiple base sets (fixed/plunge). I had a $10 off coupon and the router was only $89 which brought the price to $79. I figured for an extra $20 it was worth getting a more powerful router with variable speed and multiple bases.

http://www.skiltools.com/rb/Development/NA/POWERTOOLS/SKIL/mcms//Images/Tools/1825/tool/1825_pd.jpg

What's everyone running internal to their subwoofer for speaker wire?

I've got about 15 feet of 12ga left over from a Parts Express SoundKing spool. I'm thinking this should be suffice? Or some folks running 10 ga?

I typically run 10 but really 12 is adequate. You can always run two strands if you are worried about it.

Also wanted to report that I ended up returning my Craftsman router to Sears opting to get a more powerful 2 1/4 Skil 1825 with the multiple base sets (fixed/plunge). I had a $10 off coupon and the router was only $89 which brought the price to $79. I figured for an extra $20 it was worth getting a more powerful router with variable speed and multiple bases.

http://www.skiltools.com/rb/Development/NA/POWERTOOLS/SKIL/mcms//Images/Tools/1825/tool/1825_pd.jpg

I got that same router combo from Skilshop for $69 shipped, refurb. :)

I got that same router combo from Skilshop for $69 shipped, refurb. :)

You're partially responsible for the reason I bought the Skil 1825. I saw your results and was happy and noted the router you had used.

I wasn't able to purchase it at the refurb price like you did but I thought for $79 it's a good investment knowing I'm going to need a fixed based router and variable speed down the road.

Another busy Sunday. Kinda pissed at some of the results though :(

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2545.jpg


Yesterday I bound two 3/4"x24"x22.5" MDF pieces together to create the double baffle for the IXL18.4.

I crafted up a DIY circle jig using 1/4" MDF, drilling holes for the router base and measured out exactly 8 5.5/16ths which will create the hole for the subwoofer (16 11/16ths).

I used some scrap MDF and tested my circle jig and did a dry fit on my IXL. It Fit perfect.

So at this point I thought I was home free. Should be easy, right?

I then took my double ply 1.5" baffle and drilled a hole all the way through both pieces of bound MDF exactly in the center. I screwed in my DIY baffle using a 1" drywall screw just as I did previously in my first circle test. I proceeded to create a nice circle on on the first side going half way through the baffle using a 1/4" x 1" straight router bit. The circle looked perfect.


I then flipped over the double baffle and did the same thing, screwing into the existing pilot hole I created earlier and again went around creating a circle from the other side.

What I ended up with was 2 mis-aligned circles. The circles are Aligned perfectly on the north and south side but off about 1/4" west and east if that helps explain it better.


I can't for the life of me figure out why or how this happened. Am I missing something here? The only thing I can think of is perhaps the pilot hole I drilled was a little crooked? I remember when I was drilling it, ensuring it was as straight as my eyeball could see.

How is everyone creating thick baffles here?

Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated.

Here are some pics that help explain it better:

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2551.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2554.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2553.jpg

My circle jig
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2549.jpg

I can't for the life of me figure out why or how this happened. Am I missing something here?

Mynym, what happened was that when you drilled through the two pieces together, the drill bit was not perfectly plumb [90 degrees all four directions - N,S,E,W]. The bit being slightly off as it came thru, placed your center off by 1/8". You just need to cut a new one for the back side.

Warmon -

Mynym, what happened was that when you drilled through the two pieces together, the drill bit was not perfectly plumb [90 degrees all four directions - N,S,E,W]. The bit being slightly off as it came thru, placed your center off by 1/8". You just need to cut a new one for the back side.

Warmon -

Hmm. How do I get the screw in perfectly at 90 degrees? Do they make 1.5" straight bits? That may make life easier, 1 pass.

Also, what do you mean by: "cut a new one for the back side"?

The same thing has happened to me in the past. I now predrill a tiny pilot hole in the MDF first and use a finishing nail to hold the router jig. I also bought a router bit that is 2 inches long so I can cut through both pieces from the same side. I haven't had a problem since.

I can't for the life of me figure out why or how this happened. Am I missing something here? The only thing I can think of is perhaps the pilot hole I drilled was a little crooked? I remember when I was drilling it, ensuring it was as straight as my eyeball could see.

How is everyone creating thick baffles here?

I sincerely doubt the pilot hole was drilled so crooked as to produce the result you got. Here is my theory: you cut the first hole with no problems because the inner part of the circle that holds the pivot point was still glued to the other panel (which was still fully in tact). When you flipped the baffle over and cut the 2nd circle, the pivot point did not stay "anchored" in place as you cut the circle. The inner part of the circle will start to move around as you take away material, especially toward the end of the circle cut.

This happened to me a few times. I did two things to mitigate the problem. First, I clamped a junk piece of MDF to my work piece and drilled the pilot hole all the way down into the junk piece. I stuck the 1/8" pivot pin I was using all the way through the work piece into the junk piece, so the inner circle would stay located on the underlying "junk" piece. The second thing I did was to make the circle cut roughly half a circle at a time, leaving a 1/4" of material on opposite sides of the circle to keep the inner "disc" part stable. Then I very carefully remove the last little bits to complete the circle.

The baffle I made is two layers (of 3/4" MDF) thick but I cut one circle significantly smaller than the other. The smaller circle (about 16 5/8") is where the driver ubwoofer bolts up to. The larger circle was made big enough to accommodate the outer/overal diameter of the driver (18.4" if I recall). I cut the two holes independently of each other and then glued the two boards together carefully. Luckily, I wasn't too far off in my measurements and they lined up pretty well.

Looking at this again, I see you're using a screw for the pivot pin. That's half the problem right there. Uklit is right, you need to be using a nail...preferably a roofing nail. When I did mine, I used X & Y axis and did both separately. I cut just over half way thru and then cut the inside out with the jig saw. Then flip it over and use a flush trim bit on the router.

Warmon -

Yes, and you might be further ahead in the long run to simply purchase a circle jig. I made about a half dozen similiar errors before I broke down and bought a real jig. I just wish I had done that soooo much sooner and saved myself a lot of hassles and wasted wood.:o

Of course, what you are doing will work fine when you work out the kinks. It just leaves the possibility of an error at any time. If you plan on doing any more projects...

I sincerely doubt the pilot hole was drilled so crooked as to produce the result you got. Here is my theory: you cut the first hole with no problems because the inner part of the circle that holds the pivot point was still glued to the other panel (which was still fully in tact). When you flipped the baffle over and cut the 2nd circle, the pivot point did not stay "anchored" in place as you cut the circle. The inner part of the circle will start to move around as you take away material, especially toward the end of the circle cut.

This happened to me a few times. I did two things to mitigate the problem. First, I clamped a junk piece of MDF to my work piece and drilled the pilot hole all the way down into the junk piece. I stuck the 1/8" pivot pin I was using all the way through the work piece into the junk piece, so the inner circle would stay located on the underlying "junk" piece. The second thing I did was to make the circle cut roughly half a circle at a time, leaving a 1/4" of material on opposite sides of the circle to keep the inner "disc" part stable. Then I very carefully remove the last little bits to complete the circle.

The baffle I made is two layers (of 3/4" MDF) thick but I cut one circle significantly smaller than the other. The smaller circle (about 16 5/8") is where the driver ubwoofer bolts up to. The larger circle was made big enough to accommodate the outer/overal diameter of the driver (18.4" if I recall). I cut the two holes independently of each other and then glued the two boards together carefully. Luckily, I wasn't too far off in my measurements and they lined up pretty well.


A light just went on in my head. I believe this is my problem. I didn't even think of it but you are absolutely right.

ARRGGG..

I'm now contemplating using a single piece of MDF for my baffle instead of a double. Think this would cause a problem? Or should I really be using a double baffle?

Also, regarding my usage of a screw vs a nail. I can see how a screw could cause some minor movement too as you rotate.

Thanks guys for your insight.

Yes, and you might be further ahead in the long run to simply purchase a circle jig. I made about a half dozen similiar errors before I broke down and bought a real jig. I just wish I had done that soooo much sooner and saved myself a lot of hassles and wasted wood.:o

Of course, what you are doing will work fine when you work out the kinks. It just leaves the possibility of an error at any time. If you plan on doing any more projects...

Point taken. Do you know if the Jasper 200 jig comes with a pin or do you have to use a nail?

Also, I have heard the Jasper 200 jigs only support 1/4" router bits. All of my bits are 1/2" Is there an offset calculation that you can use that supports 1/2" bits?

The same thing has happened to me in the past. I now predrill a tiny pilot hole in the MDF first and use a finishing nail to hold the router jig. I also bought a router bit that is 2 inches long so I can cut through both pieces from the same side. I haven't had a problem since.

Where did you end up finding a router bit that is 2 inches long? Longest I could find was 1.5" but the diameter was 1/2" diameter:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html

Point taken. Do you know if the Jasper 200 jig comes with a pin or do you have to use a nail?

Also, I have heard the Jasper 200 jigs only support 1/4" router bits. All of my bits are 1/2" Is there an offset calculation that you can use that supports 1/2" bits?

I don't remember if it came with a pin. I just used a pin I had lying around, I think a shelf pin. The holes are calibrated for a 1/4" bit. But, you can measure and just pick the appropriate hole.

Point taken. Do you know if the Jasper 200 jig comes with a pin or do you have to use a nail?

Also, I have heard the Jasper 200 jigs only support 1/4" router bits. All of my bits are 1/2" Is there an offset calculation that you can use that supports 1/2" bits?

I have the small and large Jasper jigs (that Parts Express sells) and they both use a 1/8" thick steel dowel pin. I'd guess the pin is about 1.5" long. You can use a 1/2" cutting bit if you want but it will pulverize twice the amount of MDF material and make twice the amount of dust. That to me is the biggest reason not to use the 1/2" thick cutting bit!

That said... the Jasper 200 and 400 jigs will accommodate it just fine. Just don't bother with the little plastic "calibration disc" which has a 1/4" hole in the center and therefore won't work to center the jig with the bit. The jig circle diameters assume a 1/4" bit. If you use a 1/2" bit, your radius increases by 1/4" so I think your circles will be 1/2" larger in diameter. But I'd definitely do a sample cut and measure it to be sure.

Where did you end up finding a router bit that is 2 inches long? Longest I could find was 1.5" but the diameter was 1/2" diameter:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html

If you sink the pin through both panels/layers you can adjust the router bit so it is extends down further so you can cut through both panels

A light just went on in my head. I believe this is my problem. I didn't even think of it but you are absolutely right.

ARRGGG..

We've all had those moments. This is what's called a learning experience. ;)

I'm now contemplating using a single piece of MDF for my baffle instead of a double. Think this would cause a problem? Or should I really be using a double baffle?

As you may have seen, I didn't make the entire front baffle double thickness. I just made a baffle reinforcement panel that the driver actually bolts to. This adds some strength and recesses the driver by 3/4".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12014957#post12014957

Seemed like the best compromise. It all ties into the bracing too, so the box is pretty strong in that area around the driver.

Where did you end up finding a router bit that is 2 inches long? Longest I could find was 1.5" but the diameter was 1/2" diameter:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html

Here is 1/2 inch diameter by 2 inches long

http://routerbitworld.com/Freud_12_128_1_2_Diameter_X_2_Double_Flute_Stra_p/freud%2012-128.htm

and here is 1/2 inch diameter by 2 1/2 inches long

http://routerbitworld.com/Freud_12_130_1_2_Diameter_X_2_1_2_Double_Flute_p/freud%2012-130.htm

So I am going to mount the driver on a double thick 3/4" baffle.

I see many folks are using these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/imageslarge/260-776L.jpg

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-776

along with the hurricain nuts to secure the driver to the baffle.

My only concern with these bolts is will they be long enough?

The description states:

Kit includes eight 1-1/2" thread length cap screws with 10-32 threads and eight self piercing spiked "T" nuts. Works well with up to 1" cabinet thickness.



From the picture the thread length appears to be 80% of the length of the bolt + an additional non-threaded part. I am wondering if these will work with a double 3/4" thickness baffle?

Does anyone have these and can confirm ?

I also ended up buying a 1.5" cutting surface x 1/2" straight router bit from MLS Woodworking (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_strai.html) on sale for $8.95 including shipping. It bought it Tuesday and arrived Friday. Pretty fast shipping.

I have a set of those screws. I don't think they will reach through two layers of 3/4" and the thickness of the driver's mounting flange. Just the MDF part eats up the 1.5" of screw. Since the T-nut gets pressed into the wood, you get a little bit of length back, but I imagine that would be largely offset by the thickness of the driver's mounting flange. In this case, you MIGHT be able to get the screw threaded into the nut, but no way it would be able to thread all the way in and have the strength and holding power it should.

There are lots places online and probably some local hardware/fastener specialty shops you can get longer screws if you really want to put it through two pieces of MDF. 10-32 cap screws are fairly standard/common.

Also, I was advised to use the "Hurricane" style T-nuts. Seems like they are easier on the MDF than the ones pictured. I drill a hole using a .26" bit (.01 over the recommended 1/4") and pushed them right into the MDF. No problems other than it being a real b!tch to get the screws threaded into the T-nuts. The threads are small and they seem kind of finicky, for lack of a better word.

Thanks for the heads up.

I remember seeing some of these machine bolts at my Local HD. I wasn't sure if the head on them was large enough so the head wouldn't slip through the holes in the cast frame on the driver.

Off hand do you know what the diameter of the head on these bolts is?

Thanks for all your help.

I have used the same bolts and they have gone through two sheets of 3/4" plywood and stuck out the end of the nut about 1/4" when torqued down. I did use the "pro" version of the nuts, I think the steel is just a little stronger. They are darker in color, I believe from PE. I did have a little trouble with the threads getting crossed when the holes were not perfectly aligned with the shiny nuts.

Hmmmm... just to be sure, I'll go measure them with the caliper and post a picture. "Be back in a bit."

I have used the same bolts and they have gone through two sheets of 3/4" plywood and stuck out the end of the nut about 1/4" when torqued down. I did use the "pro" version of the nuts, I think the steel is just a little stronger. They are darker in color, I believe from PE. I did have a little trouble with the threads getting crossed when the holes were not perfectly aligned with the shiny nuts.

Interesting, where did you get the pro version of the hurricane nuts? All I could find on PE were the standard:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=081-1082

Hmmmm... just to be sure, I'll go measure them with the caliper and post a picture. "Be back in a bit."


btp, you really are an asset to DIY scene. I really really appreciate your help.

Thanks

OK, the screw's shaft length is 1.480", which includes the threaded part and the smooth part. The screw head is 0.193" tall and 0.309" in diameter (around the "grippy" part). The seating surface of the screw head is .295" in diameter.

This 10-32 screw would NOT reach through the driver flange (RL-P18, which appears to use the same basket as the IXL) and two pieces of MDF and still be able to thread into the hurricane nut. Below are some pictures to illustrate.

It will thread in this way:
http://s16v.com/pix/2007/11-10/IMG_1001_crop.jpg

But you can see it doesn't thread completely through the t-nut:
http://s16v.com/pix/2007/11-10/IMG_0999_crop.jpg

Just to clarify... pictured above are the following items I purchased from Parts Express less than a month ago:

260-776 Cast Frame #10-32 Speaker Mounting Kit
081-1082 #10-32 Hurricane Nuts 50 Pcs.

WOW I am speechless!

Thank you so much for your very illustrative and verbose information.

Looks like I'm headed out to the hardware shop to find some custom bolts.

Thanks btp

No problem! Glad I can help. :) As you can see, it is a "close but no cigar" situation as far as putting the screw through the driver flange and two pieces of 3/4" MDF. A 10-32 screw with a 2 inch long shaft would be plenty. Even a 1 3/4" length would work.

Interesting, where did you get the pro version of the hurricane nuts? All I could find on PE were the standard:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=081-1082

Sorry, I think they are termed deluxe. Here is the PE.... (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=081-1088)

Looks like I'm headed out to the hardware shop to find some custom bolts.
Nice project and pics. The custom rout is certainly a good option, but going with your standard 1 3/4 #7 or #8 course thread drywall screws work very well.. a guy needs do drill the proper pilot hole though. Actually to tell you the truth about it, it's the easier softer way going about it. Both options have their pros and cons, but nothing a guy cant get around.

Anyway, looking forward to your impressions and following your progress. Nice job!

I'm not an expert, but I would never put screws directly into the MDF if I could help it... especially not screws you might need to remove and reinstall in the future. The t-nuts are a great solution. Even if you stripped one, you could tap it out and replace it(maybe using a little glue when you put the new one in).

I'm not an expert, but I would never put screws directly into the MDF if I could help it... especially not screws you might need to remove and reinstall in the future. The t-nuts are a great solution. Even if you stripped one, you could tap it out and replace it(maybe using a little glue when you put the new one in).

Most of the time though, the t-nuts if stripped or crossthreaded will spin out and/or break out the MDF or even plywood if even if glued in.
I like to install the driver and test all of the bolts/nuts before putting the final panel on. If all is well then you will have no problems removing them in the future. If one does give you an issue, just put the vise-grips on the nut to prevent turning and you always get the bolt out even with stripped threads.

I'm not an expert, but I would never put screws directly into the MDF if I could help it... especially not screws you might need to remove and reinstall in the future. The t-nuts are a great solution.
No not really! If a guy is talking 3/4 then it's a probability it's going to happen if he removes and replaces the driver many times. Breaking a toothpick off in the hole remedies that quick enough though. What we're or I should say I'm talking about is 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 course thread drywall screws seated in 1 1/2 MDF or better. Striping just doesn't happen unless a guy drills the pilot hole to big or has the torque set on his drill to max, there is no way of stripping it by hand if properly done. I dunno, I have removed drivers in some enclosures up to 20-30 times I would guesstimate and have only had a few problems with all the different units I have played with. There are some, if not many in the DIY realm that cant stand T-nuts I assure you. That said, I understand the attraction of T-nuts, but once a guy has plenty of experience with both, don't be surprised if the common drywall finds favor. As for myself, I'm very glad considering how much I play with drivers that I have another option than T-nuts!:D

OK, I'll just have to take your word for it. I can see where you'd have good results using drywall screws with 1.5" or more of MDF and a pilot hole drilled at exactly the right size - not too big and not too small. Both solutions seem to have their pros and cons. Maybe I'll change my tune after removing and installing the RL-P18 a few more times. ;)

These machine bolts/hurricane nuts are certainly new to me.

In my car audio career I always used coarse threaded 1 7/8 drywall screws to screw the driver into the baffle.


I did have some negative experiences with the fine threaded drywall screws, easily stripping through the MDF but the coarse threaded ones seem to work okay, at least for the 4 or 5 enclosures I built. Although the biggest drivers I was using in the car were 12" and weighed less than 50lbs.

I saw many folks in the HT world using the machine bolts and hurricane nuts which IMHO look like they'd secure these large heavy drivers better.

Never thought about the toothpick trick though. Also worst case scenario you can rotate the driver and redrill the holes if they do strip out.

So do the drywall screws have the strength ?

So do the drywall screws have the strength ?

I dunno, I don't trust them. They always seem to shear off pretty easily when I use them for other than their designed purpose.

I would rather have a connection with something from behind that clamps the driver to the wood. It helps make a better seal IMO. And you don't have the fear of over torquing and stripping them out...Of course, I was mounting 80lb drivers. It comes down to whatever you think will work best.

Doesn't make sense starting a new tread while this will do.

I really wanted to build my own, but due of not having the time and now it's freakin' cold outside, I decided to let eD build my boxes. For the price of the boxes shipped and the cost of the drivers, my total cost is no more than $1000!:eek:(I bought the IXL-18's at pre production prices.)

I want to thank the great folks at eD for their great customer service and especially Chris Schempp for giving me his personal attention. Was on the phone with Chris and he's a class act guy. http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/yourock.gif

I'm having eD build me two boxes and here are the designs. 12cuft tuned to 15hz with the option to port block.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/eDIXL-18box.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/Vito_Exterior.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/Vito_Top_Down.jpg

They should be at my house about a month from now. Can't wait!http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/woot.gif

Sweet. Looks like Chris is also using Google Sketchup. Nice touch with the rounded edges and everything.

Is that 3/4" MDF or 1"? Also, is the magnet of driver going to be supported by the one (vertical) brace? I'd think in order to do that properly, they would need a IXL 18 in-house to measure and test fit because you would want it snug when the driver is bolted in (the idea being to better couple the driver to the box).

So he's building two of those for you? And all that is still under $1000? Wow... that's an incredible deal! Believe me, building the boxes yourself is a LOT of work.

Believe me, building the boxes yourself is a LOT of work.


+1

Took me all summer to build my twins...and that was with help. Then again, I am not a very experienced woodworker. :p

Hey Brad,

Chris is going to use 1" in and out and no, the vertical brace is not to hold the magnet. Going to use screws. And yes, two boxes!

They'll be finished in black carpet only because they'll be placed underneath the screen to absorb any light. I want them to disappear.:D
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_0149.jpg

Cool. I may have to put something like felt or carpet on the tops of my subs for the same reason (right under the projection screen).

Man, those boxes are gonna be really beefy... heavy and SOLID! I probably would have used 1" MDF if it was readily available, but HD and Lowes don't carry it. I'd probably have to go to a real lumber place and order some.

Good stuff, vitod. You're gonna love it! What amp(s) you going to use again?

Sweet. Looks like Chris is also using Google Sketchup. Nice touch with the rounded edges and everything.

Is that 3/4" MDF or 1"? Also, is the magnet of driver going to be supported by the one (vertical) brace? I'd think in order to do that properly, they would need a IXL 18 in-house to measure and test fit because you would want it snug when the driver is bolted in (the idea being to better couple the driver to the box).

So he's building two of those for you? And all that is still under $1000? Wow... that's an incredible deal! Believe me, building the boxes yourself is a LOT of work.

You know how much is sucks to roundover an edge on all 3 dimensions?

Don't do it :)

You know how much is sucks to roundover an edge on all 3 dimensions?

Don't do it :)

Again, that's what is great about Chris and everyone else at eD. They want to please. Even if it's a little more difficult.;)

What amp(s) you going to use again?

I have an EP2500 and a QSC 3500. I'll try both and hear what sounds good.

My IXL18.4 arrived.

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2497.jpg

And for anyone else questioning the actual depth of the IXL18.4, here's a pic that shows the height next to a tape measure:

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_2502.jpg



Thanks for the depth picture, I was wondering about the depth myself.

But how wide is the magnet? If the coke can is about 4½" then I'm guessing the magnet would be roughly 6 inches wide and 3½ inches high. Am I right? close? Anyone got actual measurements?

I emailed mach5audio about this but they haven't answered me (it was about a week ago)...

Thanks for the depth picture, I was wondering about the depth myself.

But how wide is the magnet? If the coke can is about 4½" then I'm guessing the magnet would be roughly 6 inches wide and 3½ inches high. Am I right? close? Anyone got actual measurements?

I emailed mach5audio about this but they haven't answered me (it was about a week ago)...
I've got one at home that I can measure for you tonight.

Schweet!!! :)

If you wanna take it to the next level, which would be even schweeter, you can do a number of other measurements as well, check the SDX15 datasheet (http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/CSS-SDX15-data-121107.pdf) which is exemplary in my opinion.

Good to see people purchasing quality drivers from reputable companies and all this at great prices.

A well designed/built sub with one IXL18.4 in a EBS (LLT) configuration will fill even larger rooms with ease. Worst case,duals and these are sure to to the job.

Agreed. I have a pair of IXL-18's each in 12 cubic feet tuned to 16hz. It's a whole new level compared to the Atlas 15's I have.

This will be my third post, so hopefully I'll be able to post the pics right after this.

Schweet!!! :)

If you wanna take it to the next level, which would be even schweeter, you can do a number of other measurements as well, check the SDX15 datasheet (http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/CSS-SDX15-data-121107.pdf) which is exemplary in my opinion.

Some pics.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6128/033xq2.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8012/025io5.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4674/018fy0.jpg


...and some dimensions.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1086/topwithdimensionsmj0.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4666/sidewithdimensionsfi0.jpg

I hope that helps.

Great more IXL18.4 owners !

Evan, you're my hero :D

Evan, you're my hero :D
No problem. :)

Evan: Thanks for the great pics. Welcome to AVS :)

I have 2 of them also.
roughly 12 cu.ft 6" port tuned to 13hz.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/Picture033.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/Picture031.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/Picture037.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/Picture015.jpg

How would something like this mix with dual 19ov's sealed?? im looking to adding a large ported enclosure for more output down low...would this be a good option to add to?? or should i not intergrate them?? is this a better option down low than eD's?? any advice would be great!!

Ben


edit: what are the dimensions on those dual boxes?? did you elbow the pvc?? nice speakers btw!!

How would something like this mix with dual 19ov's sealed?? im looking to adding a large ported enclosure for more output down low...would this be a good option to add to?? or should i not intergrate them?? is this a better option down low than eD's?? any advice would be great!!

Ben

RL-P18 from Soundsplinter would be a better option if you can afford it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaaubY4MQus

would i be having to build 20+ cuft enclosure's like you a scott to get some serious output?? :P what would be a good size for a tune of say 14 or so?? thanks spezzy!

ps...what type of JBL's were those? LC1 or LC2 for center??

RL-P18 from Soundsplinter would be a better option if you can afford it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaaubY4MQus
Why?

would i be having to build 20+ cuft enclosure's like you a scott to get some serious output??:P

No, but close.


what would be a good size for a tune of say 14 or so?? thanks spezzy!

With the D2, you could go as small as 450-475liters net with a tune of 14Hz.

I have 2 of them also.
roughly 12 cu.ft 6" port tuned to 13hz.


Hey Kingpin,

How did you create the curved cabinet for your sub?

Why?

Higher output due to higher xmax, but including shipping, it cost 2.5 times as much.

so how much output is being lost from the rlp to the IXL 18?? with something like kingpin's set-up would give some useable output down low no?? im just not completely satisfied with my sealed enclosure down low and just a little boost would help...in reality i would love to just build two massive rlp-18's but i dont think my mom will let that fly in the living room...had to trade earings for the 4ft box there now :)

kingpin...what are the dimensions of your box?? looks nice!

*the port actually uses an elbow and is not squared off as you see in the drawings*

the sub was constructed with 1"mdf front, top and bottom baffles. Brace is 1" mdf also.
the round was made using 1/4"bendable plywood that filts in a groove in the front baffle.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/21.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n130/kingpin111/dual%20ixls/Picture014.jpg
the top and bottom plate have a 1/4"deep rabbit on the curved section where the 1/4"ply sits.

the enclosure is 39"high
23.5"deep from the front baffle to the back
29.5"wide from left to right
25.5" wide baffle
6"port I think total length is 35.5". Although I cant remember so dont hold me to it.

so how much output is being lost from the rlp to the IXL 18?? with something like kingpin's set-up would give some useable output down low no?? im just not completely satisfied with my sealed enclosure down low and just a little boost would help...in reality i would love to just build two massive rlp-18's but i dont think my mom will let that fly in the living room...had to trade earings for the 4ft box there now :)

kingpin...what are the dimensions of your box?? looks nice!

2x IXL 18.4s will beat an RL-P18 in the same size enclosure in output.
As in 2x IXLs in a 25 cu ft box opposed to a single RL-P18.

what an impressive build!!!

Dual IXL18.4 's have a combined 44mm Xmax,single RL-p18 27-28mm. No magic formula needed to see the outcome. ;)

Nice one Ear. The RL-P might have an advantage in "safe" excursion seeing as the IXL's xmech is supposed to be around 26mm whereas the RL-P is supposed to be around 40 mm.

Nice one Ear. The RL-P might have an advantage in "safe" excursion seeing as the IXL's xmech is supposed to be around 26mm whereas the RL-P is supposed to be around 40 mm.

It seems really odd to me that the Xmech is only a 4 mm more than Xmax. I have to be just a little bit skeptical of that. I'm no expert, but you'd think that if the suspension is starting to reach its limits then that wouldn't make for very linear operation (which is what the Xmax range is supposed to represent).

Regarding the RL-P18, I was told by Mike @ SS that the suspension limit is around 41mm and the limit before smacking the backplate is about 46mm. I assume this is why some people say it has a "bottomless" design. You'd have to abuse the suspension pretty bad to get it to bottom out.

It seems really odd to me that the Xmech is only a 4 mm more than Xmax. I have to be just a little bit skeptical of that. I'm no expert, but you'd think that if the suspension is starting to reach its limits then that wouldn't make for very linear operation (which is what the Xmax range is supposed to represent).

Regarding the RL-P18, I was told by Mike @ SS that the suspension limit is around 41mm and the limit before smacking the backplate is about 46mm. I assume this is why some people say it has a "bottomless" design. You'd have to abuse the suspension pretty bad to get it to bottom out.

Exactly,the spider,suspension components should be good to a 30mm Xmech...at least.On the IXL18.4

I have no intention of bottoming any one of my drivers or subs to verify these claims however...:p

They call me the 16 year old DJ Audiophile-upgradeitis infected-guy!

That's a very impressive claim to fame. Definitely sig worth information.

That's a very impressive claim to fame. Definitely sig worth information.


LOL

You are one mean son of a woofa. :p


They(who are they?) call me the 33 year old day jobber who cannot stop buying woofers and being sarcastic!

They(who are they?)

Mom and Dad?

I have some pics from Chris at eD. These are build pics of my IXL-18 boxes. I thought I'd post here.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5818.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5816.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5817.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5815.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5814.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5813.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/IMG_5812.jpg

1" MDF, if your wondering.:D

Question is how much will this cost you ?

I thought this was "Project Quick, Easy & Cheap – IXL18.4 LLT"...

I thought this was "Project Quick, Easy & Cheap – IXL18.4 LLT"...

Well, why start a new thread so I chose here.

I'm getting two boxes with the two IXL-18 I already have. It cost me less than $1000 including the two IXL-18's. And yes Arthur, it's cheaper to DIY. Didn't have the time so I let eD do it.

Well, why start a new thread so I chose here.

I'm getting two boxes with the two IXL-18 I already have. It cost me less than $1000 including the two IXL-18's. And yes Arthur, it's cheaper to DIY. Didn't have the time so I let eD do it.

I like building random boxes I can climb in.

That and that bracing was really fun.

Well, why start a new thread so I chose here.

I'm getting two boxes with the two IXL-18 I already have. It cost me less than $1000 including the two IXL-18's. And yes Arthur, it's cheaper to DIY. Didn't have the time so I let eD do it.

How much for each cabinet ? Just the bare cabinet.

Thank you.

PS I do not build my cabinets because of any budget limitations. I build because it is done the way I want. Nothing more.

1" MDF now we are talking. I would be interested and give a few orders, eD looks like they can build some good stuff and free my hands and lungs from MDF dust.

Well, why start a new thread so I chose here.

I'm getting two boxes with the two IXL-18 I already have. It cost me less than $1000 including the two IXL-18's. And yes Arthur, it's cheaper to DIY. Didn't have the time so I let eD do it.

Boy, talking about misuse of words. I meant to say "it's costs more than DIY".http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/banghead.gif

Boy, talking about misuse of words. I meant to say "it's costs more to DIY".http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/banghead.gif

Two boxes minus the two drivers is how much? Does it include shipping?

Yeah, how much are these boxes?

I must be on drugs and don't know it.

It costs more for eD to build them than DIY. Sheesh, I hope I have it right now.:rolleyes:

About price. I suggest you contact Chris and ask him. I don't know if he would like me to disclose it.

I must be on drugs and don't know it.

It costs more for eD to build them than DIY. Sheesh, I hope I have it right now.:rolleyes:

About price. I suggest you contact Chris and ask him. I don't know if he would like me to disclose it.

Alright then. How much did you pay for the drivers?

hey vito, hope all is well :) what did you have them make for the tune?? do you have the dimensions for the project?? looks pretty good!

hey vito, hope all is well :) what did you have them make for the tune?? do you have the dimensions for the project?? looks pretty good!

Hey Ben, how's it going?;)

They're tuned to 15hz. Getting two boxes. Dimensions? Here you go.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/Vito_Exterior.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/slide51k/eDIXL-18box.jpg

Alright then. How much did you pay for the drivers?

Sheesh.....I'm not being an dick, but due to a technical error, I had them both waaaaay lower than advertised. Mark told me not to say.:o

lol those look great! things have been busy for sure...Ive been doing some messing around with my dual sealed and the results have been great :) though this summer my next project will be a ported enclosure to see if i can get some more low end output :) let me know when those beasts get finished! they are looking great! good to hear from you!

Ben

Nice Boxes. I like the inverted cone shape of the bracing behind the driver.

So lets see.....how much was the shipping? ;) JK

Nice Boxes. I like the inverted cone shape of the bracing behind the driver.

So lets see.....how much was the shipping? ;) JK

Thanks.

Can't disclose shipping unless Chris wants to.

So I'm back from my 6 month hiatus. As it is finally getting warmer outside this is the perfect time to finish up what was started back in Nov 2007!

The last few weeks I've been scaving around town buying all of the additional parts so I can finish construction.

I managed to find some 2" dowels for the feet at Lowes. The largest Home Depot sold was 1 1/4". These dowels will connect the baffle to the base. I think the heftier 2" gives it a more solid feel. I decided to cut the dowels to 4" in height.

Also, the last I had reported on this project I was having issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12123862#post12123862) routing out the circle for the speaker. As I was going through 1.5" of MDF I picked up a 1/2 x 1.5" straight cut router bit. This really gave my Skil router a test however the end result was sucessful.



http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_4016.jpg


This morning I was planning on predrilling the holes in the baffle for the IXL18.4 to be secured to. I was planning on using hurricain nuts along with some 2" 10-32 socket cap screws. I wasn't able to find any 2" 10-32 socket head cap screws at my local HD or Lowes so I purchased some from Micro Fasteners (http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCSCA.cfm). (SCA1132 HD CAP SCREW 10-32 x 2" ALLOY 20 pieces (http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCSCA.cfm)). When I test threaded the screw through the subwoofer basket mounting holes this morning I noticed the heads of the socket caps I purchased are passing right through the holes in the basket. I am not sure if these are irregular screws or if the holes in the IXL18.4 are overly large. It was hard enough trying to find socket caps at 2" length so I am not really sure what else to try? Maybe there are larger head socket caps? I thought they were a standard size? For kicks I tried some spare drywall screws and they seemed to slip through as well.

Anyone got any ideas?

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/IXL-LLT_Build/IMG_4015.jpg


I haven't purchased the Behringer EP-2500 yet although I downloaded the manual and began planning the configuration. Running the amp in stereo mode and using 1 channel of the EP2500 @ 4ohms appears to yield 750 watts RMS. I'm thinking this is a little shy of where I should be? I'd like to have a little more power for dynamic scenes. So my other alternative is running it in bridged mono @ 4ohms which should give me the full power of the amplifier. Is that what others are doing with similar configurations?

I'm going to be feeding the EP-2500 from my Panasonic XR-55 sub pre out. Anyone familar with the pre-out voltage?

As the EP-2500 supports both a balanced XLR connection and unbalanced TS/TRS inputs what should be used? My first thought was that as the RCA output from my receiver is unbalanced, that the input into the amp should be unbalanced as well? If so, should I use a TS or TRS adapter?

I think you need to go to 1/4" hardware

Thanks for confirming NEO Dan.

I just bought some 1/4 hardware (1/4-20 x 2" socket cap screws from MicroFasteners.com and some 1/4-20 hurricane nuts from PE).

I also ended up buying an RCA Jack To 1/4" Mono Plug Adapter (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=090-285) at the same time thinking I'll see how the Panasonic XR-55 does outputting preouts into the EP-2500 via the TRS inputs.
http://www.partsexpress.com/images/090-285m.jpg

So I am finally finished what I started designing back in October. Well, almost (keep reading about defective driver). In all fairness when the winter came around November I put the project on hold and didn't get back started again until Late May.

To give a quick update on equipment purchases. I went with the Behringer EP2500 amplifier running it bridged mono. I picked up an ART CleanBox as as the preout on my Panasonic XR-55 was really lacking. I also went ahead and bought a BFD thinking I can always use some EQ if need be.

I did go through with finishing the MDF edges rounding them off with a quarter round router bit. I used 8 cans of flat dark grey primer then sanded with 220 and applied 15 cans of Duplicolor Truck Bedliner. Just a quick note on this product. It is very temperamental. It really sets/dries differently depending on the temperature and humidity level. I actually had to go back and redo the top of the enclosure because I sprayed it on a different day with a different climate temp/humidity level then rest with of the enclosure giving it a completely different very harsh sandpaper finish. To make a long story short, I did a lot of sanding and bondo resurfacing the top to make it nice and flat so I could try again. A lot of extra time however it was definitely worth it as the finish looks consistent now having to monitor wunderground weather daily for ideal spraying conditions..

To confirm for documentation purposes for future builders here are some design details that I haven't previously mentioned in this thread:



I settled with 4.5" x 2" Poplar dowels. Lowes sells these larger diameter dowels unlike HD at least where I live. The larger diameter gives it a more husky feel.



The IXL required 1/4-20 mounting screws. I ended up buying the 2" socket cap screws from Microfasteners.com which sells them for a very reasonable price with cheap shipping costs. Home Depot and Lowes both failed me in this arena.


Hurricane nuts were attached to the back and reinforced with gorilla glue.



All joints were glued together using TiteBond II with clamps (no screws)



Flush trim router bits are your friends if you are "off" a slight margin in your cuts as they eliminate hours of sanding


You never can have enough liquid nails



Speaker grills were used to cover the 3 4" ports"



So with this all said and done. How does it sound?

Well there is bad news :(. I believe the subwoofer I purchased back in November from Mach5Audio is defective. From the second I started testing the subwoofer out I knew something was wrong. My IXL18.4 makes a very loud audible mechanical clacking noise anytime there is any level of substantial bass at moderate levels. This sound is audible even with extremely low conservative power being fed to it (EP2500 at 3 oclock (16), CleanBox at 12 oclock and , Panasonic XR55 Receiver volume -32 with level 10 (middle setting for subwoofer level).

The sound out of the driver also seems very thin, The mid-low 45-80hz is almost non existent. Only the lower 45hz and below are really heard however the clacking noise overwhelms the sound of the bass. For sake of debugging I removed the CleanBox from the mix and I experienced similar unsatisfactory results. Is this lack of mid-low bass an inherent function of LLT designs or perhaps specific to the IXL driver or perhaps my defective driver?

After hearing the clacking noise I did a little debugging. I NEVER dare touch the cone of any of my speakers but for sake of determining driver defect I turned the entire system off and very gently pushed the cone in from the middle of the driver. Upon pushing inward slightly there was very audible friction noise with some level of resistance felt along the way. I assume this is a bad sign :(

Just to confirm from the other IXL owners out there, when you put pressure on the cone was their audible noise or any friction? Does it move freely without any noise? Does your IXL make a lot of mechanical noise?

With the driver being defective I can't really compare the SQ as something is certainly wrong. My previous 100 watt Jamo 10" sub definitely has alot more solid bass in the low-mid bass 40-50hz range and actually sounds louder than this 14 cu foot enclosure with the IXL18.4.

I'm rather bummed to say the least about my IXL18.4 having to potentially spend more money to ship it back to Mach5Audio :(

Below are some pics filling in some gaps of the build process.


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4042.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4036.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4063.jpg

Having to redo the top after having sprayed the bedliner on the rest of the enclosure Lotsa Bondo and sanding!
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4083.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4096.jpg


My Dip switch settings
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4085.jpg

The center tabs on the Behringer EP2500's speaker terminal plugs are removable allowing banana plugs. I am running mine in bridged mono.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4087.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4102.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4104-1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4112.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc41/mynym/Mach5Audio%20IXL18%20LLT%20Home%20Theater%20Subwoofer/IMG_4112.jpg

can you put the sub on the other side and as far away from your front speakers? is there room elsewhere in your room?

the reflections of your sub for your front right speaker is gonna be horrendous. you gonna lose a lot.

ps- looks nice btw.

Good work! You should have plenty of bass,good choice of driver and amp too.

Good work! You should have plenty of bass,good choice of driver and amp too.

Thanks.

Question for you as you have the IXL18.4 and several countless other drivers. When you slowly put pressure on the cone of IXL do you hear any mechanical noise or feel any sort of friction?

How does the IXL18.4 compare to the other drivers you have tested so far?

I took a video this morning that illustrates this mechanical noise I am hearing with any moderate bass.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=283422981607670040&hl=en

Note that there is really little excursion when the noise is present.

:(

Woha there that is NOT normal !

Sounds like something is not right,you must NEVER have any mechanical contact(VC with the static part of the motor). This sound is not lead wires,as the excursion is too small and the come being made out of a non resonant material would not produce this sound.

You have a faulty IXL18.4. Contact the place where you purchased it.

I have pushed my IXL's hard,with test tones FREE air and in a ported testbed EBS box. You coul dsee what looked like a solid 2 inches of peak to peak travel.No parasitic sound like I hear in your video.

The IXL series are built tough,I would say on a level with the Maelstrom for built quality.



Oh...did you run any FRE EAIR tests first? Always always test any new mid-bass,bass and sub woofer driver free air. You must know how it behaves before installing it. If there is a mechanical anomaly you will hear it when in free air,and with as little as 200-300 watts you can bring just about anydriver to a high enough excursion to and listen for anomalies.

The IXL compare well to any drivers I have (Maelstrom-X,SDX15,TC3000,REVO,LMS-Ultra,Acoupower...name them)when tested free air ,the suspension system is quiet(in the average).

Woha there that is NOT normal !

Sounds like something is not right,you must NEVER have any mechanical contact(VC with the static part of the motor). This sound is not lead wires,as the excursion is too small and the come being made out of a non resonant material would not produce this sound.

You have a faulty IXL18.4. Contact the place where you purchased it.

I have pushed my IXL's hard,with test tones FREE air and in a ported testbed EBS box. You coul dsee what looked like a solid 2 inches of peak to peak travel.No parasitic sound like I hear in your video.

The IXL series are built tough,I would say on a level with the Maelstrom for built quality.



Oh...did you run any FRE EAIR tests first? Always always test any new mid-bass,bass and sub woofer driver free air. You must know how it behaves before installing it. If there is a mechanical anomaly you will hear it when in free air,and with as little as 200-300 watts you can bring just about anydriver to a high enough excursion to and listen for anomalies.

The IXL compare well to any drivers I have (Maelstrom-X,SDX15,TC3000,REVO,LMS-Ultra,Acoupower...name them)when tested free air ,the suspension system is quiet(in the average).


Thanks again for the response.

I took the subwoofer out of the enclosure and put less than 100 watts of power into it free-air. It's definitely not the tinsel leads. It sounds like it's coming from beneath where the spider is where the voice coil assembly is.

I purchased it from SoundSolutionsAudio.com on 10/7/2007 but didn't install it until yesterday. Any SSA reps on here I can talk to?

Listening again,did anything fall inside the motor cooling tunnel on the magnetic structure???

That is how it sounds in the clip you posted. When you shake the driver anything moving loose?

I shock it a little bit and there is some minor noise. Looking down into the pole vent there is a recessed grill about 2 inches into the vent that would prevent anything of significant size getting in there.

Also Prior to mounting the driver I spent well over an hour with a tacky cloth wiping the inside of the enclosure getting all lose particles.

No worries. We'll get a new unit out to you. Sorry about that... :)

mynym,
nice job with the diagnostic video. ;) sounds like the pod race scene
I suspect it took a hit in shipping, and that spacer allowed for a little shifting of the motor.

Mark will have you up and running in no time :)

mynym,
nice job with the diagnostic video. ;) sounds like the pod race scene
I suspect it took a hit in shipping, and that spacer allowed for a little shifting of the motor.

Mark will have you up and running in no time :)

You are indeed correct, it's the POD race scene from EP 1.

Mark,

You made my day with your response. I've heard/read so many great things about your company which is the reason I choose the IXL18.4 originally. A comment like that really exemplifies your level of service defining how you stand behind your company. I really appreciate it.

I sent you a message through http://www.mach5audio.com/zen/index.php?main_page=contact_us

It happens. Unfortunately, shippers aren't too nice to packages these days :)

I can't hardly say enough great things about both Mach5Audio and SoundSolutionsAudio.

Both companies have been in correspondence with me tonight at the late hours of 11:00PM EST on Sunday. Unheard of service. Totally taking care of everything. This says alot about these companies and I wanted to recognize their level of service they provide.

I plan on doing alot more business with both of these companies in the future.

Thanks again Mark and Aaron.

Yup. Mark from Mach5 is an awesome person to deal with.
I use to think his name was Mr. Ogowski. lol lol

Mike

btw. I consider their drivers the Corvette of the subwoofers. Amazing product for an amazing price.

That is an example of awesome customer service. Most companies would say flat out.... too bad, so sad... should have checked it when you got it, and leave you with a broken product and a bad taste in your mouth.

A1!

Put mach 5 on my list of future buys just because of this thread.

Did you say 8 cans of primer and 15 cans of bed liner?? No wonder I got a sunburn last week, there is no ozone left!! Heh, your box looks really good, i hope it eventually sounds that way also.

Put mach 5 on my list of future buys just because of this thread.



Ditto!

Question is, are dual IXL15's enough for a 12 x 20 theater, or should I go dual IXL18's?

Ditto!

Question is, are dual IXL15's enough for a 12 x 20 theater, or should I go dual IXL18's?

Dual IXL18.4's :D

More displacement is always a plus. Two 15's are no joke but..a 12 x 20 room,better have the 18's doing the work. Or three 15's. ;)



Yes great to see this level of support,Mach 5 service is A1.

Ditto!

Question is, are dual IXL15's enough for a 12 x 20 theater, or should I go dual IXL18's?

If you can handle the cabinet size go with the 18's. They like a 12 cubic foot ported box, the IXL-15 does well in 6 cubic feet ported.

WOW, that enclosure turned out stunning mate, KUDOS!!

Bummer on the defective LF unit, but ...........

I must say that the display of customer service from mach5 and Mark is excellent.

This was one of the deciding factors for me also in choosing drivers, I have been in contact with Mark, and can confirm that even late in the evening he was very quick to respond to a general enquiry of mine regarding shipment to Mexico! Plus it was an amazing price including this LONG haul shipping.

I will be building the same size enclosure, but I will be using BB for mine.
I will start a new thread once things are in hand, and look forward to recieving comments and help , should the need arise.

Regards,
Gareth

WOW, that enclosure turned out stunning mate, KUDOS!!

Bummer on the defective LF unit, but ...........

I must say that the display of customer service from mach5 and Mark is excellent.

This was one of the deciding factors for me also in choosing drivers, I have been in contact with Mark, and can confirm that even late in the evening he was very quick to respond to a general enquiry of mine regarding shipment to Mexico! Plus it was an amazing price including this LONG haul shipping.

I will be building the same size enclosure, but I will be using BB for mine.
I will start a new thread once things are in hand, and look forward to recieving comments and help , should the need arise.

Regards,
Gareth

Excellent :). I look forward to following your build thread through completion.

If you can handle the cabinet size go with the 18's. They like a 12 cubic foot ported box, the IXL-15 does well in 6 cubic feet ported.

I was kinda thinking sealed.... 2 12 cf boxes might be a little overbearing

When you are done,and have the sub ready...pop in Rambo 4 The Return of The Body Count and play the jolly scene near the end where Rambo cuts the belly of the happy camper...and mows down the congregation.

I never had so much fun,what a hilarious scene!!!

WOW, that enclosure turned out stunning mate, KUDOS!!

Bummer on the defective LF unit, but ...........

I must say that the display of customer service from mach5 and Mark is excellent.

This was one of the deciding factors for me also in choosing drivers, I have been in contact with Mark, and can confirm that even late in the evening he was very quick to respond to a general enquiry of mine regarding shipment to Mexico! Plus it was an amazing price including this LONG haul shipping.

I will be building the same size enclosure, but I will be using BB for mine.
I will start a new thread once things are in hand, and look forward to recieving comments and help , should the need arise.

Regards,
Gareth

Yeah, it shows just how much of a life I have... :rolleyes::D

I was kinda thinking sealed.... 2 12 cf boxes might be a little overbearing

Hehe. I am running 2 ixl18.4's each in their own sealed 4.5cu.ft box.
My room is 13x26.
My room literally pukes bass(good thing) when it's called upon.
I do strongly recommend 2 seperate enclosures though for optimum room placement.
1 on each side wall 1/3 along the way.

Mike

Yup. Mark from Mach5 is an awesome person to deal with.
I use to think his name was Mr. Ogowski. lol lol

Mike

btw. I consider their drivers the Corvette of the subwoofers. Amazing product for an amazing price.

Interesting claim.
Being a Corvette owner myself, thought it was a interesting comparison.

Hehe. I am running 2 ixl18.4's each in their own sealed 4.5cu.ft box.
My room is 13x26.
My room literally pukes bass(good thing) when it's called upon.
I do strongly recommend 2 seperate enclosures though for optimum room placement.
1 on each side wall 1/3 along the way.

Mike
Whats your low end responce with this setup? how strongly do you EQ the bottom end?

So Mark, my new best friend over at Mach5Audio hooked me up with a new IXL18.4 replacing the driver that was ruined by the shippers :/. As stated in an earlier post, Mark's customer service is second to none. He really took excellent care of me.

With the new IXL18.4 now installed, all I have to say is WOW. :eek:

The tactile pressure felt deep down into the teens is sensational to say the least. 15 - 45hz sign sweeps deliver the same oscillation feeling that I have grown for in the car audio days providing ample "cloth shaking" sensations throughout your body. I was blown away while watching the the opening scene in Transformers when the helicopter flies by. My pant legs on my Dockers were fluttering.

I threw on a 20hz tone to break in the driver playing it conservatively low. Heading up stairs to grab a drink I realized I had a new problem on my hands. All 3300 sq feet of my 5 level split home was shaking. From windows to door frames to dishes and even the garage door. Laughing, my first thought was "I'm going to need a ton of Dynamat!". My wife now home from work grinned and commented on how it felt like an earthquake.

As they say, there is no replacement for displacement, This thing really moves some serious air. I am so extreamly impressed at how effortlessly this IXL18.4 can drop bottom at high SPL levels without a single sign of stress.

My next steps in the project are to connect my new BFD to it, eqing it with the rest of my system.

I leave you with a few videos I took to augment my feelings about this now finished subwoofer.

I'd like to thank Mark @ Mach5Audio again for your incredibly superb service. If anyone is thinking about building a sub, give Mark a ring. He'll take care of you like nobody else. Thanks again Mark.


Video 1 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=724828371696599369&hl=en): Excessive rattling all over house caused by Mach5Audio IXL 18.4 LLT. Playing 20hz sinewave. The sound that is heard is not the subwoofer but the rattling throughout the house. The poor quality of this google video doesn't show the mirror vibrating unfortunately. The floor actually flexes.

Video 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3767650962766358661&hl=en): Up close look at driver playing 20hz tone. Again, the Canon camera doesn't pick the low frequency that well, but you can obviously see the nice clean extension this driver has.

Video 3 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4440431774759826766&hl=en): Rattling door in the same room as LLT, again 20hz tone.


Video 4 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6694407368607070629&hl=en): More rattling door

Now you need one more and you will be set. ;) You know while at it add three...with four you start to FEEL the powah. :D

Then you build a wall..and...each time Mickey Mouse takes a step it sounds like King Kong. :p

Good to hear you are happy.

Whew! I'm glad we got things worked out. :)

Hope you enjoy it!

Best,
m