One of my clients is asking about Tactile Transducers. I am sure this has been covered a few times,but would anyone consider it "high end"? Would Dennis Erskine or Tony Grimani specify them or use them at home?
It would seem Dolby Labs would not be providing any legimate signal for a transducer? I am perhaps "old school" but I prefer a high output woofer. Or maybe a half dozen of them :) Thanks for any input

Sure, why not? You can always control their output. Certainly doesn't hurt to put them in.

I use two units in my risers. They provide tactile resolution which can not be found with just a subwoofer unless the subwoofer is set to a very high output. I find that I love the effect with music as well. I use the LFE output channel from the Lexicon MC12 to supply the amplifier signal for both units.

I find that the best installation to be an installation in the risers instead of just the seating. Installed in the risers, the whole seating platform moves instead of just the seat...providing a more realistic sense of bass.

For the cost of these units, I don't see how you go wrong?

I certainly wouldn't consider them "High End". In fact, just the opposite in my book. A 'poor man's' subwoofer would be my definition. And no... that's not a slight. I understand that in many cases, these are a viable alternative for people who don't have the isolated rooms from family and neighbors to run a full size, full bore subwoofer(s). And for some tastes, these can even be an enhancement. But Hi-End? No.

I don't think anyone can reasonable call that a slight, no. However, subwoofers that can reproduce the entire frequency range of a lot of soundtracks just don't exist. The Thigpen rotary woofer is about the only one that can do it, and how many of them have been installed? In that sense, a tactile transducer can add content that even many of the highest-end home theaters cannot reproduce.

Also, if you're serious about tactile feedback, you could consider a D-Box, which goes far beyond simple reproduction of the LFE channel.

Classic comment from a long-ago review (cannot recall the source) characterized tactile transducers as providing 'more bang-for-the-butt' than any other component.

Hi-End? Probably not! Rear-End? Absolutely!

I certainly wouldn't consider them "High End". In fact, just the opposite in my book. A 'poor man's' subwoofer would be my definition. And no... that's not a slight. I understand that in many cases, these are a viable alternative for people who don't have the isolated rooms from family and neighbors to run a full size, full bore subwoofer(s). And for some tastes, these can even be an enhancement. But Hi-End? No.
Rutgar,

I would have to strenuously disagree!!!

First, comparing subwoofers to tactile transducers is really comparing apples to oranges.

Tactile transducers are for frequencies much lower than what a subwoofer can deliver.

The only subwoofer that can output the single digit frequencies that a tactile transducer
is responding to - is the Thigpen Rotary Woofer [ TRW ]. Ordinary cone subwoofers
operate in the > 18 Hz range - which is definitely NOT the range of the motion that
tactile transducers are designed to convey.

Who cares whether some audio "priest" has labeled tactile transducers as "high end"?

Tactile transducers are not about producing audio frequencies - but to add to the realism
of the movie experience.

Take, for instance; the scene from "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" when
Harry and Ron and their car are in the "womping willow" tree. With a conventional woofer,
one can watch Harry and Ron get bashed by the tree, and hear the sounds of same.

With a tactile transducer, the viewer is getting "womped" too - the viewer gets to feel
what Harry and Ron are feeling, to a certain extent.

Depending on your likes and dislikes - being womped and jostled can add to the movie
experience. One is certainly "drawn in" by the experience - it's hard to ignore or be
complacent when your seat is shaking.

I've also experienced the D-Box on the pod race of "Star Wars: Episode I". Nothing
other than a tactile tranducer like the D-Box can make you feel like you are in the pod
with Anakin Skywalker.

This is purely a "viewer's choice". I can see some that just want to watch a movie and
don't care about "getting involved". For others, something like the "womping willow"
scene is an "E-ticket ride" and gets the viewer involved.

It's personal choice - do you want the theater to offer motion to enhance the movie
experience or not? Forget about whether it has been labeled "high end" or not.

The only issue I see is that you can end up with notes being transmitted that you don't want. I think Dolby should have adopted a "Visceral Effects Channel" rather than an "LFE" which mainly became a redundant, unneeded bass channel.

I use them in my theater....I think they really add to the experience if properly integrated.... (Buttkickers).

The only issue I see is that you can end up with notes being transmitted that you don't want. I think Dolby should have adopted a "Visceral Effects Channel" rather than an "LFE" which mainly became a redundant, unneeded bass channel.
John,

One can always put in a crossover!!

The fact is that many DVDs ALREADY contain LOTS of single-digit frequency content.

This was extensively demonstrated by Bruce Thigpen's TRW rotary woofer in forum
member "tzucc's" theater which is now serviced by twin TRW rotary woofers.

Tzucc uses a Lake crossover to channel the low frequencies to his TRWs for the
lowest frequencies, to a Wilson XS, and then a pair of Wilson Watch Dogs for the
highest subwoofer frequencies.

In the demos, we could simultaneously feel the low frequencies as reproduced by the
TRWs, and see them as Bruce had a microphone hooked to a spectrum analyzer, the
screen of which was visible to all.

Whether you know it or not - the low frequency content is ALREADY on many of your
DVDs [ like Master and Commander ]. That content was mixed into the soundtrack
for commercial theaters - and never taken out in the DVD mastering process.

It hasn't seemed to bother anyone without the capability to reproduce it.

However, those like tzucc who have TRWs, or thebland with Buttkickers - the information
is there on the DVD for the TRW or tactile transducer to use to its advantage.

Oh jeez. John, Greg, I beg you, please don't go back and forth.

I would tend to echo Greg though. Yes, there might be some content that the engineers didn't intend to be audible. But to filter it gives you the opposite possibility that you're removing some content that was purposefully placed. I think I'd rather at least have the capability of hearing & feeling it, though maybe it would be nice to have an infrasonic filter I can switch in on demand.

What Jeff said..... "if properly integrated". The Parasound Halo C1/C2 has a tactile output with a 20 Hz cutoff.

They are not considered to be high end when installed under Japanese car seats accompanied by 6- 18" subwoofers powered by two aftermarket altenators driven by a kid under 25 who makes his living selling crack while listening to rap.







Word.

They are not considered to be high end when installed under Japanese car seats accompanied by 6- 18" subwoofers powered by two aftermarket altenators driven by a kid under 25 who makes his living selling crack while listening to rap.

Word.

In that situation....well maybe not. Hearing is a terrible thing to waste, not to mention brain cells:eek:

Besides adding a new dimension, they maintain subwoofers' subjective response at much lower volume levels.

I would not say they are high end but not NON high end either. They are a further enhancement for the Home theater. I have them in my riser and on the first row seats. but I also have two subs as well. Together they are a great effect.

They would be high end if someone started selling them for $20,000, word! :D

They would be high end if someone started selling them for $20,000, word! :D
bluray_1080p,

Have you checked the price on the D-Box Odyssey?

I think they qualify as "high end" by your definition.

Classic comment from a long-ago review (cannot recall the source) characterized tactile transducers as providing 'more bang-for-the-butt' than any other component.


I remember that. It was Brent Butterworth's review in Home Theater magazine circa 1997. The tactile transducers he reviewed were about $500 each, and he recommended installing at least two. I think he reviewed a rig in which he put one under his recliner and one under his floor joists.

Thanks for the input!
It does seem to be a "movie" soundtrack product. They do not seem to get much mention for use in "music" playback only systems?
I may have to experiment with a couple at home?

What Jeff said..... "if properly integrated". The Parasound Halo C1/C2 has a tactile output with a 20 Hz cutoff.

I am finally going to buy some Aurasound tactile transducers for my client.
Any suggestions where to access a crossover like the one in the C1/C2? 20hz and below only? Seems like the best route to take. Thanks

One of my clients is asking about Tactile Transducers. I am sure this has been covered a few times,but would anyone consider it "high end"? Aren't they intended for "bottom end" applications?

Bottom end? Is that a joke?

Buttkicker and Crowson tactile transducers are actually very well designed pieces of equipment. It is all about integration and building a proper platform. I would not deal with anything other than D-BOX, Crowson, or Buttkicker.

Ultimately the performance of tactile tranduction is limited by lack of a discrete tactile track. With D-BOX of course, they provide their own discrete track. We are not mean to run tactile transducers off of the LFE channel. It works, but it is a crude implementation. Even with tactile transducres running off of the audio soundtrack (no discrete tactile channel), it is still a much more involving experience. you really need a discrete coded tactile track to realize the potential (and remove any negative aspects) of tactile transducers.

I'm a D-Box owner now. After doing lots of Buttkicker installs, one of the most amazing experiences, absolutely amazing, was with the Blue Man Group DVD-Audio... There was one particular track that just waits until the end and really nails is with sub 20 Hz drums and wouw is it something with the lights off. Certianly, these products are best for movies, no doubt, but with a high end installation, they can be fun to utilize in other means... They are solid built devices and much more rugged than speakers due to the nature of the design. Crowson is really awesome as well. I'd have to rate it as: D-Box, Crowson, and then Buttkicker. All fine products. It is all about the install.

High end - Sure. If you cross them over very low.

Crossed over at say 80 Hz, then I'd call them "gimicky".

Why not just use some of those in line rca filters? (Don't recall who makes them...)

Besides adding a new dimension, they maintain subwoofers' subjective response at much lower volume levels.

+1 I have an Epik Conquest, and that thing is one of the baddest subs on the planet...When I don't use my Buttkickers it doesnt seem to rock the joint at all by comparison..The feel of the BKs trick your ear into thinking there is a lot more bass coming from the sub...Al

Bottom end? Is that a joke?Yup.

I think people who talk down on tactile transducers have either never used them, or don’t understand them.

http://www.clarksynthesis.com/whatis.php

These guys make some fantastic transducers that are sold at parts express. They are actually full range transducers... read the part about the violinist. Really makes you understand what a high end transducer is all about. When you say high end, I think of the overall setup, not just one part.

I for one am all about transducers. In regards to control, use a DCX2496 in the signal path of all subs or just the transducer if you are worried about fidelity.

They are not considered to be high end when installed under Japanese car seats accompanied by 6- 18" subwoofers powered by two aftermarket altenators driven by a kid under 25 who makes his living selling crack while listening to rap.







Word.


Looks like ur talking about the Aura product.. Which is cheap and has a spike around 40hz on the FR curve... Look for linear full range transducers like the Clarks. In comparison... id says the Clarks are "high end" For a transducer, im sure their prices reflect that. $40 vs $400

Maybe a valid question would be.... "Are they commonly fitted in high end HTs"

The answer is obvious.

You have to love the morons at Clark Synthesis... complete morons. They need to learn basic biology. Having a tactile transducer produce anything above 500 Hz is useless for tactile. While some blind people can actually sense up to 1kHz, this is not the norm. Clark Synthesis clearly does not understand that anything above 500 Hz is strictly for hearing (a tiny bit higher if you are blind perhaps, as I mentioned)... Is Clarke Synthesis still around?

You have to love the morons at Clark Synthesis... complete morons. They need to learn basic biology. Having a tactile transducer produce anything above 500 Hz is useless for tactile. While some blind people can actually sense up to 1kHz, this is not the norm. Clark Synthesis clearly does not understand that anything above 500 Hz is strictly for hearing (a tiny bit higher if you are blind perhaps, as I mentioned)... Is Clarke Synthesis still around?


haha that’s pretty harsh... but in their defense I actually use their full range transducer inside my swimming pool... I get full range audio underwater from one simple product... so with that in mind, there not so stupid after all.

Look at some of their application... it’s not just for HT and to shake. For HT I tried their silver product, and is MUCH better than AURA. For my application I don’t need full range and actually cross it over around 25hz…

That is an underwater speaker then, not a tactle transducer, and that is the reason they are morons, for saying "FULL RANGE TACTILE TRANSDUCER" that is what makes them morons. They don't even get the basics. Full range tactile is 1-500 Hz (essentially).

Anyway, that is a cool underwater speaker. I'd buy one for that application... but it is a speaker...

"I am finally going to buy some Aurasound tactile transducers for my client. "

I'd say for sure the Aura's *aren't* high end.

Aren't you the one doing a megabuck RP install? Why cheap out now?

Aurasound are the worst... You are kidding? those are the least quality I know of...

Honestly, If you can't budget for D-Box, then get the Crowson stuff.

http://www.crowsontech.com/

I used to talk to the owner and engineers and they really know their stuff. They are into accelerometers and are doing some really good stuff.

Aurasound are the worst... You are kidding? those are the least quality I know of...

Honestly, If you can't budget for D-Box, then get the Crowson stuff.

http://www.crowsontech.com/

I used to talk to the owner and engineers and they really know their stuff. They are into accelerometers and are doing some really good stuff.


Ive never heard of D-Box until now so I took the time to take a look... thats just fancy stuff haha. I didn’t know something like that was available to consumers... Its cool that it had to log onto a server to get the D-Box codes for that specific movie... how much does a system like that run for?

Honestly, If you can't budget for D-Box, then get the Crowson stuff.
.

Im just trying to compare Clarks to Crowson... what is it you like a lot about their product?

I like the ease of use and install... seems simple and not permanent.

I might get a couple TES-100 Actuators and try them out with my Crown 202D amp.

"I am finally going to buy some Aurasound tactile transducers for my client. "

I'd say for sure the Aura's *aren't* high end.

Aren't you the one doing a megabuck RP install? Why cheap out now?

Yes it is a big rear projector. We are using 4 15" woofers in an IB configuration as well. Equalized with a Lexicon MC12.
Actually the customer has the Aura's at his lake place and is requesting them.
As you say it might as well be a better product line for the transducers.
Clark? Crowson
I do have a Behringer 2310 crossover in stock. I could use it's sub out to send a below 25hz signal to whatever transducer I end up installing.
Limiting the higher bass would seem to be imperative for good results with these products?
Thanks for the input

I use them in my theater....I think they really add to the experience if properly integrated.... (Buttkickers).



Yes and I've experienced more often than not they that doesn't happen. The result is a poorly timed distracting seat vibration. On the other hand I went to a meet a few weeks ago where I felt (no pun intended) that they really added to the experience and seemed to be a very well integrated addition to the action on the screen.

Art

I have a set of Acoustic Innovations chairs that have Clark transducers integrated into them.

I have them hooked up to the LFE output only.

I very much enjoy the effects, as have those visiting.

I find that it complements the subwoofer in a positive way by allowing less raw bass but providing the illusion of a lot of bass.

I really don't have a negative thing to say about them.

The goal of tactile tranducers has nothing to do with subwoofers or bass in the sense of trading volume of one for another, however some market it this way. vibrotactile is a different modality than hearing, period. Hopefully tactile transducers will soon have a discrete track that has appropriate tactile information, not simply an audio LFE track. Really, the goal is to provide vibrotactile information, nothing to do with bass or subwoofer output (although there is often a lot of correlation between audio bass and vibrotactile information).

Most of the reason tactile transducers have not reached their potential is lack of a proper, appropriate, discrete track. The other is simply the quality of the install/setup.

there is often a lot of correlation between audio bass and vibrotactile information.

Ah ,yea anything below audibility and adequate SPLs is vibrotactile.

Art

The emphasis is on what is approriate for vibrotactile and to what gain level... you cannot derive accurate or appropriate vibrotactile information from a pure audio track such as LFE. It works, but nothing close to what should be in a vibrotactile track, especially in terms of gain. Another example is music sound track bass info of the movie track... this should not always be conveyed into motion or vibrotactile. By using the LFE track, everything in the audio track gets converted to vibrotactile and that is not appropriate. Of course its all in my sig file. Tactile transducer discrete tracks should contain some components of the audio track, but only some. D-Box is the only company I know of that produces a discrete track for vibrotactile (and motion) currently.

Quite simply you need to be able to determine what gets fed to the tactile tranducers and what gain level is realistic/approriate. Using the LFE track works, but is a crude method, often completely hit an miss. some effects that should be there, don't happen at all. Others are way exagerrated. Tactile is not auditory.
The big thing holding back tactile tranducers is the lack of a discrete, specially recorded track. D-Box is the only one doing this currently. It is a shame because we only need a limited bandwidth track for vibrotactile: 1-500 Hz

I'm certainly looking for more progress with discrete tracks and tactile transducers. There was some work going on with D-BOX and Crowson/Guitammer (Buttkicker) in terms of trying to make them work with D-Box controllers allowing them to use the discrete tracks, but I'm not sure how that is progressing as of late.

In order to get to where we need to with vibrotactile/motion, you need hollywood to embrace discrete tactile tracks, something more affordable from D-Box, or development of tactile transducers to integrate with discrete tracks from D-Box... I look forward to progress in all 3 of these areas.

"As you say it might as well be a better product line for the transducers.
Clark? Crowson"

Or Buttkicker.

"I do have a Behringer 2310 crossover in stock. I could use it's sub out to send a below 25hz signal to whatever transducer I end up installing.
Limiting the higher bass would seem to be imperative for good results with these products?"

That might be overdoing it.

I had a problem with my Buttkickers bottoming, so I finally tried the Low Cutoff filter (20 Hz I think), and much to my surprise the desired effect was not diluted at all.

It reduced bottoming by 90% and subjectively the only change was the absence of very slow shaking motions.

These were actually a distraction; when the couch would shake very slowly I'd start looking and listening for something corresponding in the movie, usually to no avail.

"vibrotactile is a different modality than hearing, period. "

"you cannot derive accurate or appropriate vibrotactile information from a pure audio track such as LFE"

IMO these are overgeneralizations.

Audio freq cause people and objects to vibrate until the upper bass at higher levels, and transducers give much he same subjective effect at lower lowels.

The need and benefits of a discrete vibrotactile tract are quite clear, it is not debatable.

The need and benefits of a discrete vibrotactile tract are quite clear, it is not debatable.

I agree with Noah. This is obviously a sore point for you but as far as an integrated experience which is tied well to what's on screen powerful well caibrated LFE is extremely impressive. Air,seats,floor clothing all move and in a fashion that does not distract from the visual experience.

Art

We are talking about two different subjects. Your point has nothing to do with the benefit of a discrete track. There is nothing for you to agree or disagree about with me. Nothing to do with a "sore spot".

LFE has nothing to do with tactile transducers, other than that is what many people are using to feed them. Anybody who wants a good education should talk to Crowson or D-Box. I see eye-to-eye with the owner of Crowson. We are 100% in agreement. Great company. I suggest anyone looking for an education or insight into the future of where these products need to go, should talk with the owner of Crowson... He often answers the tech support line.

We are talking about two different subjects. Your point has nothing to do with the benefit of a discrete track. There is nothing for you to agree or disagree about with me. Nothing to do with a "sore spot".

LFE has nothing to do with tactile transducers, other than that is what many people are using to feed them. Anybody who wants a good education should talk to Crowson or D-Box. I see eye-to-eye with the owner of Crowson. We are 100% in agreement. Great company. I suggest anyone looking for an education or insight into the future of where these products need to go, should talk with the owner of Crowson... He often answers the tech support line.


I'm still disagreeing. I've ridden on three different DBox systems and would never want one.I'd prefer a well set up TRW any day.

Most effects are tied to a real life effects eg a low flying large helocopter. Nothing about DBox reproduces this ,it is more like a Disney ride than an integration to what is on the screen.

I feel that your comments that act like dissent isn't allowed does neither you or your bias any service.

Art

I'm still disagreeing. I've ridden on three different DBox system and would never want one.

Again, now you are more clear. And again, you and I are not talking about the same thing.

My point has to do with the benefits of a discrete tactile track, nothing at all to do with whether or not you like D-Box or tactile transducers.

Don't forget that these products will continue to evolve and improve with time. Further, there are a lot of bad demos out there, D-BOX included. I had an awful demo of D-Box once: the place had the gain settings up too much and also did not bother to tweak the motion and tactile settings appropriately. They are adustable independently for some degree of user preference. But at least with a discrete track, the proper information is there, and the proper 'relative' gains are present. First you have to have the ability to encode a discrete track for these devices. Then you need to have a learning curve to properly mix this discrete track... There is a lot of progress to be made yet.

Hey, if you are fine with vibrations induced by the LFE track from speakers, so be it. I'm not here to argue about personal preference. I look forward to the continued progress and development of 3-D motion, vibrotactile, surround sound, and other modalities which will increase the level of involvement in movies. vibrotactile and 3D motion are in the infancy stage...

Health Nut,

You're wandering a bit; the comment I responded to was

""you cannot derive accurate or appropriate vibrotactile information from a pure audio track such as LFE"

"Accurate" is somewhat debatable and "appropriate" is subjective and 100% debatable.

In any case, it's rather arrogant to claim the last word in a debate by declaring the topic "not debatable", as well as naive to think you'd get away with it.

To argue against the advantage of a discrete tactile tract vs not having a discrete tactile tract is silly. It shows that you are looking to be argumentative rather than having any true concern for the actual facts. Perhaps you could discuss the advantage of having a discrete vibrotactile tract (vs using the LFE channel) and bring something positive into this discussion Noah.

The original question seems to be getting lost here. Are they high end? I assume this to mean are they a high end HT piece.

How many of these transducers are fitted in, considering the forum the question was asked in, genuine high end systems.I'd wager very few. Of all the genuine hi-end systems Ive seen, Ive never seen one.

I have been in a number of HT that DID have them fitted, none was a genuinely high end HT.

Therefore my answer is.....in my experience, no, they are not high end. They have their place, and their fans, I'm not disputing that.

I personally wouldn't have one.I feel they would lower the tone of a truly high end HT.

If some of you guys actually want to get genuine high end tactile feedback in your HT, then at least do it properly and go the whole hog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTM9JT4Cvns

I use them in 8 of 12 seats. I also have a big and low bass response (subwoofers), too.

I wouldn't have a theater without the Buttkickers. I tried Bass Shakers, but they are garbage. I cross them over low (40 hz) and even at max output, it simply adds a pulsing to the seat. Not over the top shaking but integrated and synergistic to the over all low-end experience.

A big plus even though I can get well over 115 db at 20 Hz with my subs...

FWIW: I rode a D-Box at CEDIA a few years back... and it wasn't my cup of tea..

In my theater tactile transducers, like bass shakers and buttkickers ,are simply unnecessary. I'm built on the second floor. The sub power I have shakes the entire structure including the seats, floor, walls etc. In installs on concrete I can understand the desire since the effect I get isn't going to happen to the same level.

I also however find that there is a point where it becomes a distraction particularly if the movement is poorly integrated or over the top then it becomes more like a gimmick like a theme park ride.

What is high end ?

Art

The original question seems to be getting lost here. Are they high end? Look at it this way. How many HT5000 get fitted in high end systems.....Id wager 100%

Ok, so a C3X1080 is not considered high end ;)

A lot of people seem to be missing the point about what a tactile transducer SHOULD do vs how they are being implemented today. These devices are actually higher quality than speakers since they do not have spiders and other parts of drivers that are non-linear. These devices are very linear, very high quality devices... One of the biggest points remains the need for a discrete tactile tract (this has nothing to do with 3D motion). You simply should not have music, and other innapropriate low frequency audio information in a tactile track for accuracy. If something feels gimmicky, then it is a bad installation, or the limitation of where we are today by having to use an audio track as the source for vibrotactile feedback.

I also feel that people who have not tried Crowson, really should demo these untis to their current furniture. I think these units are the top tactile units and really deserve an audition. Ultimately, to me, it is hollywood and the need for a discretely mixed tactile transducer track that will determine the ultimate potential of these devices. If you don't like 3D motion, and you want high quality tactile feedback given todays limitation, seriously give crowson a call. I think quite a few people here speak with minimal experience, minimal. I'm not going to argue about personal preference... So please don't confuse that I'm trying to argue with personal preference.

"To argue against the advantage of a discrete tactile tract vs not having a discrete tactile tract is silly."

I've been supporting my opinion with facts and experiences, you make categorical statements of opinion that you declare undebatable, and you call me argumentative?

All this while apparently not comprehending what's been said.

Nobody denied the value of a discrete track; you said driving a transducer without one is lame, which some of us disagree with

Welcome to my Ignore list.

Where have I said it was lame? I've asked you to have a technical debate. I've discussed technical issues and areas that need improvement, that is the type of discussion, constructive discussion I am looking for. I have zero people on my ignore list, zero... so perhaps you might just continue with something constructive. Nowhere did I say "Driving a tactile transducer is without a discrete track is lame". I can be passionate about the desire for improvement, but I don't recall saying lame. Using LFE information (or audio track) is not where the future lies because the information required for an optimal vibrotactile track is different than the audio track. Not only differenes in gain settings, but also what should and should not be included (conveyed into tactile feedback). Nowhere do I recall using the word lame.

Yes, I said the advantage of a discrete track for tactile tranducers (vs not having a discrete track) is undebatable. I think that is rather obvious. If I said something other than that, then that would have been innapropriate of me. And again, I would never suggest that someone is lame because they do not like what I like... I do however, suggest that people really give Crowson a try, especially those looking for what I think is the best, tactile only experience. Very easy to integrate. I've also built about 10 different platforms with buttkickers in the past with great results. If you look back at my posts, I've said that one of the best experiences I have had was with the Blu Man Group DVD-Audio and Buttkickers on a great platform install, of course this is audio only. Movies are also very enjoyable using the LFE and tactile tranducers, but nowhere close to their potential when combined with a discrete tactile track. Huge difference.

Ok, so a C3X1080 is not considered high end

Very OT here, but how did you get the HT5000 quote, I deleted it ages ago?

Im only asking because im having issues with edits and deletions

TIA

Sorry, I didn't read the original post, I just copied and pasted it from my inbox... my fault if that was edited out.

Sorry, I didn't read the original post, I just copied and pasted it from my inbox... my fault if that was edited out.

Thanks. Do the edits come too?

I need too edit so often, i hope im not bombarding people.

(No, I just copied your original post since that is what came into my email... )

I was speculating that if there is a "reference" for home theater or theater in general, it would be the Dolby Labs facility.It would make sense to mimic or duplicate the standard they set in their sound rooms.
I am pretty sure they do not use tactile transducers? I could be wrong though.
A dedicated output for tactile would be the logical next step,but I am guessing that is a long way off.

Fox and a few other movie studios are taking interest in D-Box. There continues to be progress in this regard. It really is going to take a combination of Hollywood interest, continued growth in number of consumer installations, less expensive D-Box products, and continued improvements in the products themselves... I think it will be a slow but sure process... Would be nice if D-Box's discrete track could be utilized (translated for use) with tactile transducers (this was being experimented with a while back with Crowson and Guitmammer company).

A dedicated output for tactile would be the logical next step,but I am guessing that is a long way off.

Perhaps not too long... There is a team of 10 Motion Artist that are working on movies, adding Motion and Vibration cues on a frame by frame in sync with the on screen action. Adding multiple layers of coding on a single frame, taking over 4000 cues in a single movie and of course wrapping up a great experience after some 2 or 300 hundred hours of work. This is already available on more than 750 DVDs and 220 Blu-rays and the studios (Disney, Fox and Sony) are now embedding the Motion Code on some of their new Blu-ray releases. You have probably read about it (Health nut in this thread mentioned it) or even experienced it and of course like anything new, the evolution of Motion as drastically evolved in the last 2-3 years and is a lot better now. D-BOX really believe that the Motion and the tactile adds to the experience and is quite determined to bring this to the market; in the commercial theatres, in gaming and in your home theater, it's coming. With that being said, the D-BOX products are not for everyone at the moment. Other products namely tactile transducers could really benefit from the Motion Code created by D-BOX (IMO).

The question I have is the following: As a tactile transducer owner, if this would be available to you, would this be something you would consider adding to your system?

Although missing some of the information (motion), you would still get the tactile part when needed, without the sub intended information that can distract you from the movie.

note: I do work for D-BOX and I am passionate person, like most of you here. All I'm looking for here is some feedback through an audience that already has some relation with tactile.

Thanks

Yannick

Feeding a discrete track, dedicated for tactile, would really show what tractile trasducers were capable of... For tactile transducers to be able to immediately take advantage of the D-Box codes would be huge... A great intermediate step until Hollywood itself can provide a dedicated track for tactile transucers, as well as a dedicated d-Box track.

For tactile transducers, even with 7.1 audio, you can provide another discrete channel within the Blu Ray spec, sort of the way height channels are used, you can split the LFE track and make two channels out of the .1 channel... anyway, it is trivial to do, and can be done many ways... its just a matter of Hollywood getting behind it.

YEs, I would be interested as well in a DBOX track for my Buttkickers.

Do you guys feel tha there will be discrete tactile tracks for BD in the next couple of years ,as we move away from SD material ? Personally , I say we will not see it.

Art

Do you guys feel tha there will be discrete tactile tracks for BD in the next couple of years ,as we move away from SD material ? Personally , I say we will not see it.

Art

Well it's already embedded on 20 Blu ray movies...

The question I have is the following: As a tactile transducer owner, if this would be available to you, would this be something you would consider adding to your system?

I can't think of a reason why someone wouldn't want that!

How would something like that be done? Using your DBox?

IMO something like that would really open your company to a much larger market.

Well it's already embedded on 20 Blu ray movies...

Thanks ! I did not know that.

Art

Thanks ! I did not know that.

Art

Die Hard 1,2,3 and 4
Fantastic Four 2
I robot
Independance day
Predator
Alien vs Predator 1 and 2
Master and commander
and a few more all Fox movies

The 6th day (Sony)

The Game Plan (Disney)

and soon May 20th National Treasure 2 (Disney)

All of them are coming with the D-BOX Motion Code technology, of course it's only the beginning...

I can't think of a reason why someone wouldn't want that!

How would something like that be done? Using your DBox?

IMO something like that would really open your company to a much larger market.

Are you using one? If yes which brand? The question is how big is the market? How many users of those tactile transducers are using them out there... If you have seen an article about that send me the link I am looking for data.

Thanks

Don't know if any of you had a chance to read this white paper about a discret channel, but I think it is relevant to this conversation.

http://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesarticles2007/articles20071203-02.html

Are you using one? If yes which brand? The question is how big is the market? How many users of those tactile transducers are using them out there... If you have seen an article about that send me the link I am looking for data.

Thanks

I got the Buttkickers and always felt the biggest flaw was not having a discrete channel.
I have no idea what the market is on something like that. Wasn't Buttkicker suppose to have something like that? Maybe you could partner up with them?

What would I need to get it?
Would I be able to use an existing D-Box or would it be a different one? What would the price be?

I would definitely be interested!

I'd certainly be interested in getting a tactile track, but also interesred in what hardware is needed and costs.

Well it's a little to soon to talk about pricing or the type of controller, but I would guess that it needs to be in the area of the tactile transducer range of price...

Well it's a little to soon to talk about pricing or the type of controller, but I would guess that it needs to be in the area of the tactile transducer range of price...

That would work!

I wonder when we will have a discrete track for those machines in THX 1138 ?

Art

"Well it's a little to soon to talk about pricing or the type of controller, but I would guess that it needs to be in the area of the tactile transducer range of price..."

Sounds good.

Watched Live Free or Die Hard on BD last night and saw that it had a DBox track.

Any news Yannick?

Any news Yannick?

Any news on what?

Any news on what?

News on a controller/transducer unit.

News on a controller/transducer unit.

I don't have this information at the moment, but make sure that as soon as I do... you will hear about it ;)

Cant wait!