Not strictly an Xbox question, but the surround sound would be mostly for gaming, so...

I live in an apartment and would like to upgrade my gaming experience from what I'm getting with the built-in speakers in my TV. My wife isn't going to go for anything too expensive or big, and I obviously can't run wires through the wall. Anyone have experience with a similar situation?

What about a 2.1 setup, at least to get a little more stereo separation? Is it just a gimick or are there any that are worth the money?

even a cheap htib would be an improvement over tv speakers. you'll really benefit from the use of surrounds in many of the games (hearing opponents coming behind you, etc)

even a cheap htib would be an improvement over tv speakers. you'll really benefit from the use of surrounds in many of the games (hearing opponents coming behind you, etc)

Yep, just hit best buy or whatever and get an sub $200 package and you'll be alright. And he's right. Many a times hearing those footsteps behind me saved my life on Gears of Wars and other games.

www.shoponkyo.com
Buy a refurbed Onkyo HTIB, then you're buying quality and not some $200 or $300 Sony or Kenwood piece of junk.

Also don't forget to get a spool of wire from your local radio shack. It will make a big difference in the sound. If the stuff in the box was any thinner you'd might actually think they packed hair samples in the box.
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-100-ft-16-gauge-white-2-conductor-speaker-wire--pi-2049736.html
Something like this. Down the line you could upgrade the speakers also. Nothing fancy just something to add more umph. Some cheap paradigms and you'll be ok.

Thanks for the advice. Circuit City has a Samsung HTIB for $220 that is wireless rear channel capable and also looks like from the reviews includes a decent upconverting DVD player. I think I could talk the dear wifey into that. Now, does anyone have advice on mounting/placing speakers so they don't drive my asthetically-minded wife crazy?

i read in a similar thread where someone recommended the logitech Z-5500 Digital speakers. You don't need a receiver with these and you just run an optical cable straight into the console.

I did a quick check on the net and you can find them cheaper than what's priced on the logitech website.

Thanks for the advice. Circuit City has a Samsung HTIB for $220 that is wireless rear channel capable and also looks like from the reviews includes a decent upconverting DVD player. I think I could talk the dear wifey into that. Now, does anyone have advice on mounting/placing speakers so they don't drive my asthetically-minded wife crazy?

Its crap. Cheap plastic speakers I'm guessing, seriously don't spend any money on something that will sound terrible, you'll just wind up hating yourself and the world and next thing you know you're up on the roof with a magnum making the CNN Breaking News channel :)

Wireless rear speakers? Run away screaming :)

For $220 you can get an Onkyo (hate to beat the dead horse, but Denon and Yamaha also have good packages) refurbed that sounds orders of magnitude better than any Sanyo product.

(sorry, make that Samsung.....nothing wrong with the brand, but that HTIB is best avoided, sound is very important and bad sound can ruin the whole experience).

^^

His issue is that he's in an apartment and can't run wires to rear speakers.

Depending on the layout of your living room, sometimes it's possible to tuck some very high gauge wire between your carpet and baseboard, but any doorway or opening to another room will nix that.

Don't read much into the "it's crap! it's crap!" cries over the cheaper sets. If you're listening at low to normal levels, which is about all you can get away with in an apartment, even a cheap set using wireless rears will sound somewhat better than your TV speakers. Hell, even a 3.1 set would be great by comparison, though you probably won't get much use out of a sub unless you're on the ground floor and your living room is on the end of the building with no shared walls.

Come on guys...read his entire situation and give some applicable suggestions.

Anything with the DVD included is probably not a good bet. Usually there aren't enough connections and the quality is doo doo. You probably want to hook up the cable/sat also. Usually those DVD things only have one extra connection. Cable/Sat + 360, that's two connections min. you'll need. Don't forget about that while you're shopping.

Back when I was in a rental I was able to utilize the "tuck under the area rug and run up the wall technique". I ran the wire up the wall in the corner, and used some decorative tape to cover the wire. It was actually pretty unobtrusive and not too noticeable. Not sure if it would pass muster today though...

I live in an apartment and have an Onkyo 605 and 5.1 speakers. Heres what I did; pull the carpet away from the floor and wall and run the speaker wires underneath. Carpeting should'nt be that hard to pull away since it is an apartment and they get replaced regularly. After running your wires, place the carpet back in place and you will be good to go. Can't even tell that the carpet was pulled up.

You might want to look into surround sound headphones, too. I can't speak to their quality, but they'd probably allow for a little higher volume level than you might otherwise be able to get away with in an apartment.

^^

His issue is that he's in an apartment and can't run wires to rear speakers.

it might be impossible to HIDE the wires, but it's never impossible to run the wires. big difference. i just leave mine sitting on the floor. we've got hardwood floors, so what else you gonna do? works fine.

2 options:

*Spherex Xbox 5.1 HTIB system - excellent system that uses Mirage components. Google for reviews.

*Logitech Z5450 HTIB system - very good system with wireless rear speakers. Reasonably priced at that river dot com.

it might be impossible to HIDE the wires, but it's never impossible to run the wires. big difference. i just leave mine sitting on the floor. we've got hardwood floors, so what else you gonna do? works fine.

I never used the word "impossible", I was simply going on the part of his quote that said My wife isn't going to go for anything too expensive or big and assumed that if his wife wouldn't go for large speakers. then apparently she's concerned about how an audio system will look in the living room. From there it's an easy guess that she's probably not going to be very cool with wires running across the floor either. A guess, yes, but probably a correct guess.

Any halfway decent HTIB should let you configure it so that it knows you didn't hook up the rear speakers. If I were unable to run rear speakers, and was on a strict budget, I would totally get something like the above mentioned Samsung 5.1 unit and just not hook up the rear 2 speakers. Running it as a 3.1 system would be a vast improvement over your TV speakers.

headphones are WONDERFUL ...........please believe me

Headphones are disgusting! :) Seriously though, I can't stand the feeling of proper monitor-style headphones, and being chained to a cable is horrible. Beyond that I don't like the loss of non-headphone noise. Blocking out the noise of the rest of the world makes me paranoid. :)

I'm slowly chipping away at the wife...I think I can do the whole "lay a rug down and run the wires underneath" thing. NOW she's balking at putting the rear speakers on the end tables! I told her the other option was putting them on the wall, which she wasn't to cool with :)

Basically, I think I need speakers that are completely invisible :)

I'm slowly chipping away at the wife...I think I can do the whole "lay a rug down and run the wires underneath" thing. NOW she's balking at putting the rear speakers on the end tables! I told her the other option was putting them on the wall, which she wasn't to cool with :)

Basically, I think I need speakers that are completely invisible :)

Yeah, and when you show her speakers make sure you show her some giant towers that you'd be like, suspending from the ceilings. "I dunno, hon, its either the little ones on the table or these big suckers hanging by ropes from the ceiling near the back wall.....I mean, I know which ones I'D choose but..."
:D

it might be impossible to HIDE the wires, but it's never impossible to run the wires. big difference. i just leave mine sitting on the floor. we've got hardwood floors, so what else you gonna do? works fine.
yep me too. I run at the edges of the wall when ever i can and over the doors. The color of the wires match the wood, so it works out! The only problem is when you need to rewire something, it becomes a pain!

I'm slowly chipping away at the wife...I think I can do the whole "lay a rug down and run the wires underneath" thing. NOW she's balking at putting the rear speakers on the end tables! I told her the other option was putting them on the wall, which she wasn't to cool with :)

Basically, I think I need speakers that are completely invisible :)
When you guys are finally watching a movie with surround, she'll begin to understand.

In my apartment which has harwood flooring I was lucky in that it has hot water heat so the heaters that run along 2 of my walls are a couple inches off of the floor so I was able to run my 4 surround speaker cables under the heaters. My right side surround has the cable run under my couch and then meets up with the wall as it is on a stand directly beside the couch and the opposite side of the couch is within a foot of the wall. My left side surround fits nicely in that space.

For me, I like the whole surround sound experience so much I was unwilling to let the fact I live in an apartment hamper my style :) Between my 2 subwoofers and 7 surrounds I have technically around 4700 watts available at clipping (7x330 + 2x400 with 1200 watt peaks). Granted there is not a change of me getting anywhere close to that without getting evicted but it's there and I'll have it when I eventually move into a house. Then I can really let her rip.:)

Rod

Go Onkyo or logitech. i live in an apartment and i have the z-5500's. i can say that they are great. the speakers look much nicer than comparable onkyo so maybe the wife wouldn't mind. they are also pretty small. they sound great for music as well as movies and games. you can usually find them for around $250 or so shipped. i got mine from dell with free shipping. for the money you will not buy something new that sounds as good, very well made and excellent imaging. even if you don't connect the rear speakers they will sound great and have good bass.

For me, I like the whole surround sound experience so much I was unwilling to let the fact I live in an apartment hamper my style :) Between my 2 subwoofers and 7 surrounds I have technically around 4700 watts available at clipping (7x330 + 2x400 with 1200 watt peaks). Granted there is not a change of me getting anywhere close to that without getting evicted but it's there and I'll have it when I eventually move into a house. Then I can really let her rip.:)

RodI completely hear you on that! Every now and then, you gotta blast it though, just to let em know what you're working with ;)

I completely hear you on that! Every now and then, you gotta blast it though, just to let em know what you're working with ;)

Yeah, actually I have opened it up a few times over the years. It was no holds barred for the Lord of the Rings DVDs, especially the extended versions and I also did it for the Star Wars films. The one and only complaint I ever received was for breaking a plate in my neighbors apartment. That was awesome. I think it happened during the pod race in Star Wars Episode I :)

I second (or third or forth by now) the Onkyo suggetion. I got a sub $300 onkyo HTIB about 2 years ago and have loved it ever since. I am in a shared building(neighbor upstairs) and have yet to be able to max this thing out. I believe the model is HT-s590. They probably have a newer version of this by now, but I definately recommend it. The speakers certaintly aren't much to speak of, but the good thing about this (and most onkyos) is that the reciever is almost worth the cost of the HTIB alone. I still plan on using the reciever for a while and could upgrade the speakers and wire if I ever get a larger place. Plus I have 3 digital audio inputs, multiple analogs, and componet video switching as a bonus.

I would stay away from the included DVD player HTIBs. The speakers are usually hardwired to these so you can't upgrade and as mentioned, they usually are lacking on inputs. You may not have the components now, but you probably will some day.

If you can get the wife to agree, I would definately recommend a 5.1 system. It absolutely enhances the gaming and movie viewing experience.

can anyone shed some light on which system would give more bang for the buck:

Logitech z-5500 for 238.00

Onkyo refurb. HT-SR600S for 199.00

I would definitly lean toward the Onkyo. The Z-5500's are more of computer speakers and are really too much of a pain to use in a theater environment if you want to hook more than 1 thing up to them.

I would definitly lean toward the Onkyo. The Z-5500's are more of computer speakers and are really too much of a pain to use in a theater environment if you want to hook more than 1 thing up to them.

thanks for the input. how about sound-wise?

I have the Pioneer HTS-GS1 5.1-Channel Surround Sound System for the Xbox 360. I live in an apartment also so I went this system . I'm sure some here will call it crap but I don't care. It works for me.

It has a nice look and compliments my set up nicely. The speakers are fully customizable. It also packs a punch with the bass.

"thanks for the input. how about sound-wise?"

You're talking about $200 systems. :) It's difficult to say one is going to be better sounding that the other, because either one is going to have huge accuracy issues. What is easy to say is that both of them will give you far superior audio to what your TV is spitting out, and the addition of surround is super nice. Given that, I would go with the one that makes life easier, the Onkyo with more inputs that is designed for the environment you are describing.

You're talking about $200 systems. :) It's difficult to say one is going to be better sounding that the other, because either one is going to have huge accuracy issues.

I agree. Regarding a budget HTB system, I'd focus more on feature set (inputs, outputs, decoding formats, etc).

One thing I thought I'd mention is that bass is felt as much as heard. Owning/using a strong subwoofer in an apartment can often make a person self-conscious. I know I've had the neighbor's beat on the their ceiling/my floor before. However something like a "bass shaker" can be a great way to experience bass without really unearthing the building's foundations. The localized rumble won't bother others nearly as much as a traditional subwoofer... which makes it an ideal candidate for apartment gaming. Although I'm not sure how much they cost now-a-days...

"However something like a "bass shaker" can be a great way to experience bass without really unearthing the building's foundations."

Nope! And you already explained why! :) I can tell you from personal experience that the transducers inside my couch transfer their noise to my neighbors just as well as a sub does. Since a couch or chair are sitting on the floor, when they shake from a transducer, they act like a big sub. The vibration of the couch transfers to the floor, which then converts to sound on the other side of that floor. Thankfully my apartments are *very* well insulated and my neighbors have always been awesome.

By no means is a transducer any less distruptive to your neighbors than a sub is. That really was some bad advice, AC.

EDIT
Here's a perfect example. Take a cellphone and put it on vibrate. Call it. Normal vibrate noise, right? Now put that phone on your coffee table and call it. The noise is amplified greatly, isn't it? That cellphone on the coffee table is your couch with transducers in it on your floor.

So hang your sofa from the ceiling using rope, install tranducer and you should be okay. The benefit is that you also have an extremely fun swinging couch!

Honestly I'd say just walk into Best Buy and get whatever is on sale for $200 bucks. These guys are recommending certain specific systems but they are forgetting one thing.. You live in an apt so theres no way you would ever get to crank the volume enough for this accurate, technogaga talk without the neighbors banging on the wall.

Trust I'm in the same situation. I'd go with any brand name. Sony is always a good place to start. As others stated.. place your importance on things like how many inputs (especially HDMI).

Nope! And you already explained why! :) I can tell you from personal experience that the transducers inside my couch transfer their noise to my neighbors just as well as a sub does.

Well it depends. A subwoofer radiates energy (sound waves) in all directions & effects the entire room/environment. A bass tranducer "localizes" the vibration - thus requires less total energy for a similar vibrational effect.

A modest transducer should achieve a small "buzz" with MUCH less energy than a subwoofer - your cellphone analogy is perfect. Think how little energy is required to perceive your phone's vibration. And just like your body dampens the cellphone buzz, you can certainly dampen a localized, low energy transducer easier than a room full of low frequency sound waves.

However I'm not saying if your transducer is set to output a ridiculously high level that it is easily dampened - however I have little doubt that such a setup is unnaturally calibrated as well. Simulating natural bass does not feel like a cheap electronic massage...

I just have my system hooked up to a 2.0 stereo with some decent speakers that do have a lot of bass sometimes. I also live in an apartment. But I only use the speakers at late afternoon. Either my downstairs neighbor doesnt care or he/she isnt home. It sucks to have to pick a time but thats the way it is in an apartment. But apartments really arent that big so I guess my point is that 2.0 fills up the room pretty nice and I have the speakers on bar stools. I dont know if that helps hide the bass a little more but its gotta be better then on the floor.

I would suggest not getting a htib and instead just get a good stereo setup. A good stereo system will sound better than a crappy surround sound one. Plus in the future if you decide to upgrade you won't necessarily have to throw out what you already have.

I would definitly lean toward the Onkyo. The Z-5500's are more of computer speakers and are really too much of a pain to use in a theater environment if you want to hook more than 1 thing up to them.


unless the onkyo has hdmi in, then the z-5500 is just as easily hooked into a home theater. i have my 360 elite, oppo 970hd, and a comcast hd-dvr plugged into my z-5500 and just like any receiver you have to change the input when changing viewing devices. the "receiver" is really only a control dock that is about the size of a paperback book. it takes up much less room and would be much less complicated for the wife to use. you do have less features than the onkyo but the sound is really good. as long as you have three or less surround sound devices then it works just the same as the onkyo. and you would have a warranty. i believe in both products, but for my first surround sound i went with logitech. will i get a better system in the future, absolutely. i am looking at svs, b&w, quad, and wilson audio. but for a budget, these speakers have a lot of bang for your buck.

if you're looking cheap you can always find something on overstock.com. Anything you get is going to be better than the the TV speakers.

From reading this thread it sounds like living in an apartment sucks with regard to surround sound.

I have a Samsung 5271 and a few thousand dollars I can plop down for a surround sound system. Only problem is I live in a third floor apartment in a community with older people (40 - 60 yrs. old) and it is DEAD SILENCE all the time around the building. Buying a pimp surround system will just blow the neighbors away and I will be sitting on the curb looking for a new place to live.

Buying an underpowered system will just have to do for now :(


Counting down the years until I have my own home...

check out the headphone thread. you can have great sound without bothering your neighbors. just maybe a little different than you were expecting.