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Blu-ray Showing Impressive Gains


Blu-ray Showing Impressive Gains
At the DisplaySearch conference held yesterday, attendees were treated to the latest information regarding the format war. Warner announced that '300' has sold over 250,000 copies on Blu-ray since it was released in July, twice as many as has sold on HD DVD. Sony also announced that the PS3 would soon be receiving a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functions. On the whole, HD players have increased their market share, now at 5%, since August when it was only 1.3% of total DVD player sales. Additionally, HD players accounted for 27% of the revenue in the DVD player market. This trend is expected to continue through the upcoming holiday season.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=580

Please be 1.1 and DTS-HD MA decoding.

I don't expect DTS-HD MA support, probably just 1.1 support only (I could be wrong though). Something anyways...

We needed another thread on this.

If not DTS MA decoding, at least bitstream please. My receiver decodes.

If not DTS MA decoding, at least bitstream please. My receiver decodes.

supposedly the hardware isn't capable for bitstream. anyways my receiver doesnt so i want decoding :D

between 1.1 and dts-ma, i'd take dts-ma any day.

supposedly the hardware isn't capable for bitstream. anyways my receiver doesnt so i want decoding :D

between 1.1 and dts-ma, i'd take dts-ma any day.

I'll take both thank you :D BTW I am greedy.

I'll take both thank you :D BTW I am greedy.

well that's the obvious choice. in fact gimme 2.0 let's skip 1.1.

supposedly the hardware isn't capable for bitstream. anyways my receiver doesnt so i want decoding :D

between 1.1 and dts-ma, i'd take dts-ma any day.

Same here, I'd take dts-ma decoding over 1.1 for sure. Unfortunately I have a feeling that we will be waiting a little longer for dts-ma. After all the people that went out and blew big bucks on the 1400 and dts-ma receivers would probably pitch a fit if the PS3 got decoding so soon.

Same here, I'd take dts-ma decoding over 1.1 for sure. Unfortunately I have a feeling that we will be waiting a little longer for dts-ma. After all the people that went out and blew big bucks on the 1400 and dts-ma receivers would probably pitch a fit if the PS3 got decoding so soon.

there are more ppl with the ps3 to pitch a even bigger fit if the ps3 doesnt get decoding. i dont think there are many ppl who has the ps3 that went out and bought both a 1400 and a hdmi1.3 receiver.

Please be 1.1 and DTS-HD MA decoding.
I could care less about 1.1 or 2.0...

DTS-HD MA decoding is all I want. PLEASE SONY!!!

We needed another thread on this.

Thank you for your insightful contribution.

supposedly the hardware isn't capable for bitstream. anyways my receiver doesnt so i want decoding :D

between 1.1 and dts-ma, i'd take dts-ma any day.

Indeed. :)


I'll take both thank you :D BTW I am greedy.

Indeed. :D

DTS MA over bitstream would definitely push me towards getting a PS3 even though I already have the BDP-S1.

There is thread already started here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=921245

hopefully mods can merge then.

I could care less about 1.1 or 2.0...

DTS-HD MA decoding is all I want. PLEASE SONY!!!

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000.......

DTS-HD MA decoding damn it!!!! DTS-HD MA decoding!!!!!!!

Sorry...I had to vent.

DTS-MA is the #1 thing I want as well.

Of course.. the 1fr anniversary of the system is Nov 12.. in 1 Month approximalety and like every Console CE outthere, you be sure that there's gonna be a couple of event out there.. like FW Update 2.0...

I want BD 1.1 just to shut those up that say that "most BD players" won't have it. Suddenly, "most" will have it.

That said, I want DTS HD MA and HR decoding more. I could really use those.

I will beleive it when the firmware upgrade shows up on my PS3...I really want DTS-HD MA more than anything. I'm starting to have my doubts about DTS-HD MA. :(

I will beleive it when the firmware upgrade shows up on my PS3...I really want DTS-HD MA more than anything. I'm starting to have my doubts about DTS-HD MA. :(

I agree. DTS-HD MA is all I care about as well.

I agree. DTS-HD MA is all I care about as well.

I have DTS-HD MA on an HD DVD import decoded iva HD-A35 and an Onkyo 705...yes, it is worth it! I want it very much for my PS3 / Blu rays as well!!!!

I love the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player...but have given up on the DTS Master thing, as well as the Dolby True HD...I will keep my PS3 for games...but will purchase the new Samsung Dual Format Player...I will be happy with that..

I love the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player...but have given up on the DTS Master thing, as well as the Dolby True HD...

I don't understand. The PS3 decodes TrueHD just fine. It won't output it as bitstream, but honestly - do we need to revisit that topic? There's no reason to output bistream for formats a player decodes.

Will DTS Master cost Sony a separate fee? If so they could always release a paid firmware download to unlock its goodness.

There's no reason to output bistream for formats a player decodes.

What!?!?! Blasphemy! Everyone knows when the LCD on your tuner lights up "TrueHD" it makes the sound better. :rolleyes:

Does 1.1 profile mean we are finally getting Batman Begins on Blu-ray?

Didn't Warner Bros. delay Batman Begins because they needed the 1.1 profile for In Movie Experience or something like that???

Yup, I'll take DTS-MA w/bitstreaming, please.

Perhaps we'll get 1.1 at the same time of "Cars" and "Ratatouille", to get both the media with increased interactivity, and the hardware to play it.

Hmmmm...

There's no reason to output bistream for formats a player decodes.

The only people still saying this are the ones that have not heard HBR audio decoded in a good receiver instead of a player.

BTW, I have a PS3, and after using a Toshiba A35 for a couple of days, I went out and bought a Samsung 1400 to go with the PS3. There was only one reason for that.

The only people still saying this are the ones that have not heard HBR audio decoded in a good receiver instead of a player.

BTW, I have a PS3, and after using a Toshiba A35 for a couple of days, I went out and bought a Samsung 1400 to go with the PS3. There was only one reason for that.

Do tell, what sort of characteristics did the receiver decoding give you over player decoding. I'm also thinking of getting the A35 because I don't own HDDVD yet and have an Onkyo 705. But I worry I'll be out buying a 1400 also if I like it to much over my PS3's potential DTSHDMA player decoding.

The only people still saying this are the ones that have not heard HBR audio decoded in a good receiver instead of a player.

So what you're saying is the 1s and 0s from your receiver sound better than the same 1s and 0s from your player?

The only people still saying this are the ones that have not heard HBR audio decoded in a good receiver instead of a player.

BTW, I have a PS3, and after using a Toshiba A35 for a couple of days, I went out and bought a Samsung 1400 to go with the PS3. There was only one reason for that.

I guess it depends on everybodys setup!

So what you're saying is the 1s and 0s from your receiver sound better than the same 1s and 0s from your player?

No, I didn't say that, and your comment shows your lack of understanding of what is actually happening here.

There is potentially some relatively sizable variation in what happens to audio data in the two configurations being discusssed. In-player decoding entails decoding the compressed data to multi-channel PCM then outputting that through an HDMI transmitter into an audio receiver or processor that then applies whatever processing a particular engineer determined wouuld be used to PCM data before conversion to analog signal to be sent to the amplifier.

When that compressed format is input into the receiver/processor in its native form, the signal path is completely different, and therefore, how the data is processed is different. Here is an example.

Warner's HD release of "Bullet" contains a 2-channel stero soundtrack encoded in DD+. With in-player decoding, a 2-channel PCM signal is sent to the receiver. No receiver I am aware of will apply surround decoding to the PCM from this sort of soundtrack. You get a hard left and a hard right channel. When the DD+ stream is sent directly to the receiver, that decoder treats the data the same as it would standard Dolby Digital and applies whatever post processsing one has selected. In other words, I get proper PLIIx surround processsing on this disc only when the native bitstream is sent to the receiver.

As for what subjective differences I am hearing in my room, I would say I am getting slightly improved low level detail in all channels which enhances the directionality of a multi-channel mix. Better detail, less "smearing" of channels. I attribute this to the better components in the signal path of my $2500 audio receiver vs. either a software based decoder in the PS3 or the obviously lower quality audio section of a standalone player.

Robert,

You make a good point about HD DVD players, in that the decoded PCM streams always come out as 5.1, which makes PLIIx useless for stereo encodes. The PS3, and maybe other Blu-Ray players, don't suffer from this problem. The number of channels in the encode is the number of channels in the decoded PCM stream. My receiver applies Pro Logic IIx perfectly fine to two-channel PCM signals sent from the PS3.

I know you previously had a Denon AVR-4306. I have this receiver, and as far as the PS3 goes, the only difference in what the receiver does to the signal path when my PS3 does the decoding of legacy codecs is that it engages its AL24+ processing. I suspect this is because it's relieved of the decoding duties and can do more as a result.

After extensive testing with legacy sound tracks found on SD DVDs, I was never able to notice any degradation in quality by having my PS3 or HD-A2 decode them. Have you come to the same conclusion with regards to legacy tracks? I curious, as I'm on the cusp of an upgrade if in-player decoding of advanced codecs is really detrimental to quality as some say.

After extensive testing with legacy sound tracks found on SD DVDs, I was never able to notice any degradation in quality by having my PS3 or HD-A2 decode them. Have you come to the same conclusion with regards to legacy tracks? I curious, as I'm on the cusp of an upgrade if in-player decoding of advanced codecs is really detrimental to quality as some say.

I can't really comment on the first part of your question as I don't use the PS3 for SD DVD. I also have never used anything but bitstream into a receiver or processor for Dolby Digital or DTS from DVD. Frankly, I've never heard a in-player decoded Dolby Digital or DTS track using analog outputs from a player.

As for the last parrt of your post, I'm not sure I'd use the term "detrimental" to describe the process of in-player decoding to PCM for HDMI output. I would say there are "degrees of good", though ;). I happen to now consider the processs of sending a native DD+, TrueHD, DTS-HD, or DTS-HD MA bitstream into a decent receiver to be a higher degree of good over in-player decoding.

I can't really comment on the first part of your question as I don't use the PS3 for SD DVD. I also have never used anything but bitstream into a receiver or processor for Dolby Digital or DTS from DVD. Frankly, I've never heard a in-player decoded Dolby Digital or DTS track using analog outputs from a player.
I personally use a Denon DVD-2930CI for my SD DVD duties, which entails bitstream out via Denon Link. My use of the PS3 and HD-A2 was merely for testing purposes.

With regards to in-player decoding, I'm not referring to using analog outs, but rather HDMI. When using HDMI to my AVR-4306 for legacy codecs, there is no difference in quality between in-player decoding and in-receiver decoding. This applies to both the PS3 and HD-A2 using many different legacy codecs, ranging from 448 kbps DD to 1509 kbps DTS. If anything, in-player decoding is better for me due to the lower noise floor granted by AL24+. However, I can't help but wonder if the in-player mixing stage results in a "lesser degree of good" for advanced codecs.

I'll take DTS-MA

Blu-ray Showing Impressive Gains
At the DisplaySearch conference held yesterday...Sony also announced that the PS3 would soon be receiving a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functions.[/URL]

So is there any chance we'll be getting this firmware update on Thursday???