http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/139569.shtml

Halo 3 for inovation over Bioshock, yea right.

4 Player co-op and Forge are arguably more innovative than Bioshocks great story. A great story driven single player FPS... Half Life did that a few times already.

http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/139569.shtml

Halo 3 for inovation over Bioshock, yea right.

I saw this as well. Sorry, but no way IMO. Bioshock hands down.

Frank, since I am NOT a FPS/multiplayer guy at all but really am enjoying Bioshock, do you think Orange Box is a worth a purchase?

Frank, since I am NOT a FPS/multiplayer guy at all but really am enjoying Bioshock, do you think Orange Box is a worth a purchase?

I think you probably liked Bioshock because it was very atmospheric and immersive. I think HL2 was one of the best games I've ever played with that in mind, much better than Halo (although I still enjoy Halo very much). I'd recommend it, since you are getting about two whole great HL games, Portal is a quirky puzzler, and TF2 if you care about that.

I read the review, and thought it was actually pretty well summarized. I too would give Halo 3 the nudge in innovation. No other game comes close with the replay/file sharing, networking features, and of course the Forge.

I loved Bioshock, and agree that its great story, graphics and sound all are a bit above Halo 3, but to me the most important thing is replayability. The bottom line is people will be playing Halo 3 for years, and not Bioshock. If anything, we should give Bioshock game of the year, and Halo 3 "Game of the next 2 years".

Frank, since I am NOT a FPS/multiplayer guy at all but really am enjoying Bioshock, do you think Orange Box is a worth a purchase?

Rent it from Gamefly, if you like it keep it at a discounted price -if not, return it... simple... and not a huge loss either way.

If I didn't have a PC for Half Life 2, I'd get orange box, so whoever didn't get a chance to play it yet, go to the store now.

4 Player co-op and Forge are arguably more innovative than Bioshocks great story. A great story driven single player FPS... Half Life did that a few times already.

Co-op has been done before and the semi-editor is barely worth talking about, its good but not that good. Where Bioshiock as whole has more inovation then few games that came out put together, including Halo 3

Co-op has been done before and the semi-editor is barely worth talking about, its good but not that good. Where Bioshiock as whole has more inovation then few games that came out put together, including Halo 3

You havent named any of those innovations. Read the article, it does a good job summarizing them all for both, and both games are pretty innovative in different ways.

You havent named any of those innovations. Read the article, it does a good job summarizing them all for both, and both games are pretty innovative in different ways.

I agree, but i think that Bioshock has better and more original innovations, where Halo 3 just improved on the older ones.

I don't agree with Gamepro. I think Bioshock also wins in arsenal and innovation. Plasmids, tonics, AND guns-c'mon! We've played with bazookas and pulse rifles to death. And, is it really fair to include multiplayer in this comparison? One has it and one doesn't. Bioshock is the real innovator here, and, I would give my $60 for it anyday over Halo 3.

Gamepro is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!

4 Player co-op and Forge are arguably more innovative than Bioshocks great story. A great story driven single player FPS... Half Life did that a few times already.

Agreed.

Bioshock was simply the first story-driven FPS in some time, but it didn't bring anything new to the table. The magic-powers/weapons thing was done in that first person shooter from 3DO I think it was Redemption or..err..the name escapes me right now. Angelic powers and straight-up weapons.

Halo3, while nothing more than a straight-up 1995 era FPS with limited weapons and simplistic online gameplay modes, has brought 4 player co-op to the entire campaign and Forge does allow one to at least manipulate all the gameplay modes in multiplayer, something done to death on the PC but not so on the Console.

I wonder when Halo3 can expect the off-hand grapple mod :D


EDIT:
Actually, let me clarify what I mean here: Neither of these games is innovative. Vegas was the first truly innovative game released this year, with its co-op experience for 3 players at a time and its unique first person/3rd person view shifting on the fly, GRAW's method is too cumbersome and tedious to use and doesn't really exist in multiplayer in any FUNCTIONAL way (yes, you can cover and duck in multiplayer in GRAW2). Bioshock is the more interesting game, but I find it boringa nd haven't really played through even the first level yet. Halo 3 has co-op, which is good, and Forge is nice I guess..so I dont think either of these deserve the kudos for innovation! :D

Halo three greatly imrpoves upon Vegas by keeping the game continuous. In Vegas you play each MAP together co-op, the story is stripped out. In Halo its virtually seamless. Gears of War while only two player did something neither did: Allowed a player to drop in while you are playing.

So props to all threef or their individual additions ot the coolest thing about online gaming: Co-op!

I look forward to a 4-8 player co-op game where people can drop in and out at will. (Its my dream game!)

Frank, since I am NOT a FPS/multiplayer guy at all but really am enjoying Bioshock, do you think Orange Box is a worth a purchase?

If you enjoy Bioshock you will probably enjoy Half Life 2, Ep1 and 2. Its really the same concept. A rich story - action/adventure game from the first person perspective.

Orange Box SP > Halo 3 SP Co-op > Bioshock SP > Halo 3 SP

I think Orange Box is the best deal for a FPS fan. Great and involved story driven SP experience, along with top MP and portal thrown in for good measure.

I have not played Orange Box, but I have finished HL2 and EP1, both are great. TF2 is getting great reviews also, it has to be better than Halo 3's run and gun old school MP.

Cool, thanks for the tip guys.

I think you'll see more games in the future using features from Halo3 than games trying to copy Bioshock. So I'll say that Halo3 has more innovations.

But for me, this year was all about Bioshock. The story was really inmersive, it was not like I was playing a game, it was more like watching a movie or doing a movie. I think 10 years from now we'll be talking more about Bioshock's story than Halo3 features.

So, would you kindly stop arguing about these two great games?

Innovation can spark lots of debates, because what is real innovation? Is it a completely new concept/idea, or just a new way of putting together previously done concepts? Or BOTH? Bioshock puts together a lot of previously done ideas flawlessly, as does Halo 3. I think some of Halo 3's networking/sharing features are very new/innovative for console gaming.

4 Player co-op and Forge are arguably more innovative than Bioshocks great story. A great story driven single player FPS... Half Life did that a few times already.

Dont forget the multiplayer & matchmaking possibilites over LIVE still sets the precedent for online gaming on ANY console.

Somebody also mentioned the replay feature. How cool is that. Showing what you did instead of talking about it. I've heard that has been done before, but Halo3 has the different views you can set the camera to really see things from an amazing point of view

I gotta say I found Halo3's online setup very frustrating...I just wanted to try some maps with me and Streetpreacher last weekend, and for like the first three or four times it kept letting other people into the game even tho I had said Friends Only...etc.

Very confusing. Maybe cooler if you're into playing public and want to find gamers with "rankings" similar to yours tho...

"has brought 4 player co-op to the entire campaign "

"I look forward to a 4-8 player co-op game where people can drop in and out at will. "

Brute Force has in and out seemlessly .. edit: that was offline, never tried it online so I'm ot sure but I think you ca. Would be cool if you do it online for campaign games, I don't see why it would be different than with MP matches.

Hopefully GRAW3 will let you drop in and out (16 players) instead of just upon start-up, that would rock!

The theater, forge, 4 player co-op, advanced match making for multiplayer... Not sure I agree or disagree with them, but they certainly can make a strong argument....

What did Bioshock have? Good graphics, cool story, nice sound effects, no multiplayer, short, and nothing all that innovative.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to search for players who were wanting to play co-op in Halo 3. When I went to Campaign and picked difficulty level and what level of the game I wanted to play, it looked like it was setting me up to host other players, but I just wanted to find people who were already set up and waiting for someone to join them. I got frustrated after ten minutes and then gave up. In GoW it was so easy to find players who wanted a co-op partner.

Orange Box SP > Halo 3 SP Co-op > Bioshock SP > Halo 3 SP

I think Orange Box is the best deal for a FPS fan. Great and involved story driven SP experience, along with top MP and portal thrown in for good measure.

I have not played Orange Box, but I have finished HL2 and EP1, both are great. TF2 is getting great reviews also, it has to be better than Halo 3's run and gun old school MP.

For me it's been Bioshock SP>Halo 3 SP>Half Life 2 SP. But they are all good games, so imagine everyones will be different.

http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/139569.shtml

Halo 3 for inovation over Bioshock, yea right.

Comparison that implies superiority (of one over the other) based purely on the concept of innovation is silly. They are only doing it to get more hits, by including two recently released games head to head in one article. If Halo offers new innovations, then they can surely be celebrated without trying to make Bioshock look inferior.

The fact is, they could write another sister article comparing the story-line and atmosphere of the two games, in which Bioshock would win easily -but would be equally as silly

ps. Games that support a rich story have historically not always done well (eg Max Payne 2) but I think the tide is turning as gamers tastes are starting to get more sophisticated.

Way too many games relly on the multiplayer aspect of it. As fun as it is and can be, developers should go back to focusing on the story and single player aspect of it first and then multiplayer.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to search for players who were wanting to play co-op in Halo 3. When I went to Campaign and picked difficulty level and what level of the game I wanted to play, it looked like it was setting me up to host other players, but I just wanted to find people who were already set up and waiting for someone to join them. I got frustrated after ten minutes and then gave up. In GoW it was so easy to find players who wanted a co-op partner.


Halo doesn't work like that. It's all about getting a party together and deciding what to play. If you set up a party, you can invite people from your friends list, or from your recent games list (hopefully clans soon as well) to join you. At that point you can drop into campaign, matchmaking, custom or forge.

Brute Force has in and out seemlessly ;)

Hopefully GRAW3 will let you drop in and out (16 players) instead of just upon start-up, that would rock!


Man would Brute Force have been great if it had Live support! (The brain dead AI was well brain dead)

I am hoping GR AND Rainbow Six: Somwehere other than vegas have drop in support.

Halo doesn't work like that. It's all about getting a party together and deciding what to play. If you set up a party, you can invite people from your friends list, or from your recent games list (hopefully clans soon as well) to join you. At that point you can drop into campaign, matchmaking, custom or forge.Thanks for explaining that to me. It was frustrating.

Having said that, I don't like it. Granted, at any given time these days over 90% of my Friends online are playing Halo 3, but they are already playing multiplayer or are in co-op with someone else (and not open to join). I don't want to pester them to play with me. I want to find someone who is all set and ready to play some co-op. Let me make some new Friends that way. :mad:

i really find the forge and theater of halo to be great; recording the entire game code of a match? wow, that's very cool; i don't know if bioshack is "inovative" as much as it is simply a beautiful, well crafted, clever, and brilliant game experience

If anything, we should give Bioshock game of the year, and Halo 3 "Game of the next 2 years".

i gotta say, that's incredibly well-put

Two games I love. In terms of innovation? I would actually have to say that that is tough, but give it to H3. I loved Bioshock, but that's the key word, "loved." I love H3 and will continue to because it doesn't get old for me. Bioshock introduced A LOT of cool stuff to fps for me, but it's still just a game to beat once or twice and move on. Halo has always had those "I can't believe I just did that" moments. And with each game, that is more true. I just can't find a game that compares to how much fun I have consistently.

I think, when considering innovation and H3, it serves the discussion well to think of Forge as what it really is. I believe it's not just a map editor...it's a whole different game mode. You can get some awesomely crazy mp action that way. I've yet to see anything like it on a console.

Bioshock is such an overated game...

Another vote for Halo 3. Although I still love Bioshock.

Bioshock is such an overated game...

And I thought I was the only one who was not that impressed with the game. :) I consider myself a seasoned FPS player (I've been playing FPS's since Wolfenstein 3D, and played a ton on PC and consoles) but this is not as groundbreaking as some make it seem to be. Right now I'm on smugglers hideout, and seems a bit tedious already. It could be that the storyline doesn't really do it for me, maybe it's a little to "dark" for my tastes...

Brute Force has in and out seemlessly .. edit: that was offline, never tried it online so I'm ot sure but I think you ca. Would be cool if you do it online for campaign games, I don't see why it would be different than with MP matches.

Hopefully GRAW3 will let you drop in and out (16 players) instead of just upon start-up, that would rock!

Brute actually released before Live came online I believe. I may be wrong.

Way too many games relly on the multiplayer aspect of it. As fun as it is and can be, developers should go back to focusing on the story and single player aspect of it first and then multiplayer.

Well look at what has changed over the years. Look what Halo did for the Xbox since 01 having the legs it had for offline multiplaying and co-op. We are deployed out in the desert playing 8 months straight of 16man/4display multiplayer matches with crowds taking ticket numbers yelling im next(and a war is about to start that got us in the mood:cool:). Look what Halo 2 did for Live because of Multi this is what the majority wants. Personally I want a great story and multi experience. If I have that I am fine with waiting on a sequel and more multi experience with the followup.

Now you have people are making money and going to Olympic style gatherings in multiplayer games. I have personally been satisfied with buying Bioshock and Halo 3 and Orange Box. I like that I have a game that focused strictly on the story aspect and then a game that focused on both story and multi and then a sequel to a game I fell in love with on the PC and I get to play all the new episodes and Portal :eek:.

This is just the beginning I don't see the focus of multi dieing at all or it reverting back to focusing only on single player stories. I also don't expect every game released to grab my attention with multiplayer either because I compare it to both Halo, Graw, Counterstrike. Just isn't the same as those games.

Frank, since I am NOT a FPS/multiplayer guy at all but really am enjoying Bioshock, do you think Orange Box is a worth a purchase?

Yes, and try Condemned or F.E.A.R. too

Guys, go check out the Gamespot review of the Orange Box...it gives a nice little video review of the game so you can see some stuff for yourself.

Sadly, they only show a tiny bit of HL2, EP1 and EP2 (and having seen TeamFortress 2, I'm glad I didn't bother with it)...which is the majority of the game...if you enjoy bioshock you will most definately enjoy HL2 because its got pretty graphics and a very nice style of gameplay with rudimentary puzzle solving...and a totally engrossing story.

HL2 is particularly great because each map is differnt, its not like one gigantic maze after another...there is the almost horror-esque Ravenholm missions, then fighting in the destroyed City 17, then fighting in the creepy prison, etc, etc, etc...

I just don't understand why people think BioShock has such great story and atmosphere. I thought it was ok but not earth shattering. IMO the story was just a derivitive of "run here and do that." Don't get me wrong, I thought the weapons and stuff were cool, but come on, it's just another FPS. F.E.A.R, and Prey are just as good as Bioshock. If you want a good story based FPS try HL2 or the all time best (although dated) Deus Ex.

Halo 3's story has some great immersive moments, where bioshock was just kind of predictable in my opinion.