Absolutely ridiculous.

How many threads are you gonna bash HDD in today? You don't like that site, we get it already. :rolleyes:

How many threads are you gonna bash HDD in today? You don't like that site, we get it already. :rolleyes:

Both threads deal with Transformers HD DVD and both deal with reviews. I will post whatever I want. I don't need you to count it for me.

Maybe you should try paying attention to what you post, and live me alone eh?

"The Audio: Rating the Sound


When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when we learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher."

My only nitpick is that he said Dolby Digital Plus isn't high-res audio. It's not "lossless," but it is high res.

I still think it was a crap movie with unimpressive CGI, but that's highly subjective. I will have to fight hard not to eat my words and add it to my collection as "demo" material tomorrow.

Yes - nice review!
However - I found this part of the review very interesting:
Quote:
"Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality."

Everyone knows this to be true..Except die hard HD DVD fanboys on this forum...

I agree! I'm sure I'm in the total minority here but I could really care less about any extras. Just give me the best video & audio at max bit rates and I'm happy.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if this was re-released down the road with TrueHD/DTS HD MA just to get us to buy it again. Same ploy the studios do with all the same dvd's being endlessly re-released.

And I am the complete opposite. I want the best presentation possible but also want all the extras. I personally think DD+ is an amazing codec and way to present the audio side of a film. All you "hate it cause of no lossless" people are totally glass is half empty type people. You have nothing to compare the DD+ track to, but automatically think it is not as good as a TrueHD track. Instead of thinking, hey maybe Paramount/DW worked their buts off getting the DD+ track to sound every bit as good as a lossless one so that they could provide us with the stellar amount of extras that there is.

I will not except a disc that has a lossless track on it that only sounds marginally better (if at all better) than a extremely well done DD+ track only because it has to satisfy all the spec minions out there. I would prefer the studio take the time and energy to work with the DD+ codec and perfect a lossy track and be able to put all the amazing extras they can on it.

The worst part is, when there is a title absent a lossless track, the minions come out in droves and thread jack like mothers. But when I title comes out that has no features (Top Gun) the extra loving crowd are civilized and don't kick up a huge stink about things.

Just accept the fact that this DD+ track is mind blowing and just goes to show what can be done with a lossy track.

I have an open invitation for anybody to come and compare a lossy encode to the master in the Los Angeles area..... they can switch back and forth at will, and if they can reasonably tell me which one is which 3 out of 4 times, I will buy them a really good lunch.

If anybody takes you up on this Robert, and they can't tell the difference, make them buy you a very nice lunch. :cool:

At the very least, if knowing that I'm listening to the best possible sound makes me think it sounds better then that to me is a good thing.

Sure, maybe it is, but the rest of us don't have to hear about it over and over in every TF thread ad nauseam, especially after the disc is getting rave reviews for sound across the board.

I think this Transformers release will show everyone, both HD DVD and Blu-ray supporters, what the phrase "transparent to the master" means.

The audio was rated a perfect five out of five on hdd, to make it sound inferior due to DD+ is just pure format bias.

There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate.

Personally I would much rather see some 6.1 / 7.1 releases then worry about lossless tracks that dont have any noticable difference.

I really stopped carrying what HighDef Digest says anymore. Many of their reviewers are simply pro-Blu. Sure the whole site is not biased but many of the people writing reviews have this very sarcastic voice always reviewing HD DVD titles. They have reviews where they say it's incredible quality, but it could be hypothetically bettter and then they slap 4 stars. All BS to be honest. Then you take Pirates of The Caribean Black Perl, which gets 5 star ratings and the movie looks completely crappy. Noise all over the place, lack of details overall, but hey it's Blu-Ray, it's a hot title, it has to get a 5 star PQ. Stuff like this is really very obvious.

Now, I will not deny, unlike Black Pearl, Dead Man's Chest is absolutely stunning, but this is really beside the point. It just shows an incredible paper-spec bias that reached even the High-Def Digest.

For the first time I went over to blu-ray.com and to the forum section to read a few threads. Many of the people there say the same thing about HiDefdigest except that they are HDDVD fanboys.

I really stopped carrying what HighDef Digest says anymore. Many of their reviewers are simply pro-Blu. Sure the whole site is not biased but many of the people writing reviews have this very sarcastic voice always reviewing HD DVD titles. They have reviews where they say it's incredible quality, but it could be hypothetically bettter and then they slap 4 stars. All BS to be honest. Then you take Pirates of The Caribean Black Perl, which gets 5 star ratings and the movie looks completely crappy. Noise all over the place, lack of details overall, but hey it's Blu-Ray, it's a hot title, it has to get a 5 star PQ. Stuff like this is really very obvious.

Now, I will not deny, unlike Black Pearl, Dead Man's Chest is absolutely stunning, but this is really beside the point. It just shows an incredible paper-spec bias that reached even the High-Def Digest.


I disagree. I have always felt HDD is unbiased with the reviews between the 2 formats. It is dissapointing that there is no TrueHD no matter how good the DD+ sounds as some will always be wondering "what if it had TrueHD?"

Having said all that, the lack of TrueHD will not affect my enjoyment of this film. King Kong on HD-DVD is still one of my favorite audio tracks between the 2 formats and is also DD+. I fully expect to be Amazed by the audio on Transformers:)

peter is one of the most biased hd-dvd reviewers there are.

but what he says about the audio is a very valid point. a point shared by many people around.

and for a big office movie like transformers there should be no excuses.

The audio was rated a perfect five out of five on hdd, to make it sound inferior due to DD+ is just pure format bias.

There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate.


I partially agree, but it does look like space was an issue, but that is due to all the amazing disc 1 special features, which of course nobody in their right mind wants extra features. :rolleyes:

Dolby Digital + at 1.5Mbs is said to be the audible equivalent to the studio master. "At least one professional Hollywood sound mixer has described Dolby Digital Plus at 1509 kb/s as audibly transparent to the studio master." I came across this on highdefdigest website in an article explaining the different audio formats for Blu-Ray and HD DVD.

I really stopped carrying what HighDef Digest says anymore. Many of their reviewers are simply pro-Blu. Sure the whole site is not biased but many of the people writing reviews have this very sarcastic voice always reviewing HD DVD titles. They have reviews where they say it's incredible quality, but it could be hypothetically bettter and then they slap 4 stars. All BS to be honest. Then you take Pirates of The Caribean Black Perl, which gets 5 star ratings and the movie looks completely crappy. Noise all over the place, lack of details overall, but hey it's Blu-Ray, it's a hot title, it has to get a 5 star PQ. Stuff like this is really very obvious.

Now, I will not deny, unlike Black Pearl, Dead Man's Chest is absolutely stunning, but this is really beside the point. It just shows an incredible paper-spec bias that reached even the High-Def Digest.

This is kind of funny. If you go over to Blu-Ray.com, all they talk about it how HD DVD biased he is. Did you ever think maybe he really thought that the Black Pearl transfer was worth of 5 stars, and that you might just have a different opinion than him? It's gotta be insane being a reviewer these days. Any good reviews get you a bias label from one side or the other.

There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate.

I agree. Should have been room for a lossless track. Especially since it's a 2:35 film (which saves bits) and all the extras were put on a separate disc (to save even more bits).

I'm sure the Dolby Plus track sounds phenomenal - but psychologically I like knowing the track I'm listening to is lossless (placebo effect):)

I have to completely agree..these guys seem very objective.

On the other hand, go read the HDD review of Transformers. BS all around.. typical Blu-Ray spewing.

I'm paraphrasing:

"Oh the title looks amazing and sounds incredible, but you know it would've sounded 10 times better if it was PCM or TrueHD and if the disc was 50gb"

I'm getting sick of that site to be honest. The blu-bias is extremely annoying and it's absolutely amazing how many sites and professionals will discredit themselves with stupid remarks like that or Blu cheering when their jobs are supposed to be objective. When the title is AWESOME, then don't go around spewing crap how you are certain it would sound or look better.

Absolutely ridiculous.


If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say which way HDD was biased I would have to say HD-DVD. That being said, I think they are very unbiased between the 2 formats. They seem fair to both IMHO.

This is kind of funny. If you go over to Blu-Ray.com, all they talk about it how HD DVD biased he is. Did you ever think maybe he really thought that the Black Pearl transfer was worth of 5 stars, and that you might just have a different opinion than him? It's gotta be insane being a reviewer these days. Any good reviews get you a bias label from one side or the other.

Well if there's 1 review that favors HD DVD and 100 that favor BD, Blu-Ray crowd will scream bias. It's the way it is.

People don't seem to get subtle tones and hints in reviewers writing that obviously reveal his bias towards Blu-Ray.

I'm not audio/video professional, but I can read people very well. I wouldn't be successful in my carreer and business if i wasn't, and I tell you when I read these reviewers pieces, I see they are favoring Blu-Ray. Again, Black Perl SUCKED, it really SUCKED. I have no problems saying that even some HD DVD movies suck if they do. For a professional who does highly technical reviews of the movies to give that crappy POTC1 title 5 stars is beyond ridiculous.

If I watched (and own btw, both POTC titles) and I tell you, that Dead Man's Chest looked SPECTACULAR but Black Perl looked like an insult in quality, would you agree that it would be highly unlikely that a pro would somehow see that picture better?

I'm not talking about stupid things like "oh why do I still see black bars on this movie" thing. I'm talking about heavy grain, poor details etc etc. Compared to Dead Man's Chest, Black Perl looks like an SD DVD and yet, it gets 5 stars. It's very hard to believe that.

So yes, a few reviewers have strong Blu-Ray bias even though they are trying to hide it. Their comments, about hypothetical improvement when the title is already absoutely perfect, judging by other reviews as well, and that somehow TrueHD would sound much better if HD DVD had space etc etc shows me that he does not have objectivity. If something is perfect, adding more bits to it won't make it any better, simple, yet comments he made are completely fueled by bias.

There are favored HD DVD titles, true, but look at their overall marks, they are higher for Blu-Ray and trust me SOME of those titles I have. They have not deserved the ratings they gave them (Invincible for example - A DISGRACE!). The title looks like CRAP and gets 5 stars. These are the type of things I'm talking about.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say which way HDD was biased I would have to say HD-DVD. That being said, I think they are very unbiased between the 2 formats. They seem fair to both IMHO.

It depends on the reviewer. But your right for the most part. But this review it just seemed to be bashing the DD+ track while on the other hand praising it with the 5 stars. In fact he mention his issues with the DD+ or TrueHD more times then he mentioned how good it sounded. He even included it in the extras features part.

It depends on the reviewer. But your right for the most part. But this review it just seemed to be bashing the DD+ track while on the other hand praising it with the 5 stars. In fact he mention his issues with the DD+ or TrueHD more times then he mentioned how good it sounded. He even included it in the extras features part.


I guess it depends on how you perceive his comments. I did not see it as bashing, but simply his honest thoughts which many people echo on here.

Just curious. I read a bunch of articles about the trip to Paramount to screen everything. How come he's the ONLY one who magically seemed to remember that Paramount was asked about the lack of lossless audio?

And why is Supermans continued to be allowed to post in this forum?

I love when people who should know better make comments about how the audio would have been better with TrueHD? How does he know? Did he compare the masters side by side to be able to make a judgment or is he going by specs or even better pure suposition? Rember when digital audio was thought to be perfect vs. analog? Yeah, they got that one right didn't they! THis is a great sounding track. Maybe it can sound better but there is no way for us to know. Just enjoy a great sounding track.

While I find HighDefDigest's news updates informative, Peter Bracke's reviews aren't of much use to me. He has a hard time being objective and his shot at the use of DD+ is just "par for the course" for a Peter Bracke review (you can search this forum to see where other people have echoed this sentiment).

Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

So 5 out of 5 stars is not offering "the very best in audio quality"? DD+ is more efficient with respect to disc space and yet it can still deliver audio worthy of a perfect 5 out of 5 stars on AQ. That paragraph in the AQ section contradicts the rest of his AQ review and seems out of place. Unless you have an agenda to push, why even bring up the anecdote about "the limitations"? :confused:

When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when we learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc.

DD+ is not "high res" audio? I know it's not lossless, but not high-res? :rolleyes:

300's intentional grainy look, I didn't like much. Actually I thought it didn't seem HD at all and originally posted here to ask if I somehow did not do something right with my connection/settings. The PIP looks gorgeous. I don't consider 300 reference quality, everyone that sees it says "that's HD?" so I always showcase Planet Earth or another HD DVD instead. Now I will use TF of course.

I finally got around to watching 300 this weekend. (I've had it since its release day but I've too busy/tired to actually watch it.) I also am not a fan of the [director's intentional] grainy look, but the picture was clearly top quality HD. Now that things are finally calming down in the office, I am looking forward to watching Transformers tomorrow or if not that later this week.:D

I really don'y get it. The title gets a 5/5 audio rating from just about every review and people want more wtf. Think about it folks if the audio is already 5/5 do you actually believe a TrurHD track would somehow make it 6/5?


I Want 11 :D:D:D

I really think this has gotten out of control, it really feels like it's all coming from BR fanboys that are jealous...

"Hey guy's we don't have this awesome over the top movie which would be a perfect demo for Home Theater and even though it sounds amazing in every review I have read so far it sadly isn't lossless so.... Well it still sounds amazing but it would sound more amazing-er if it had lossless." What a joke IMO.

I am sure 90% of the people bashing DD+ could not be able to tell the difference in a blind test anyway.

Can't wait for Tuesday...

BTW. I will be format Neutral in a couple of weeks with a price drop PS3... I am a movie fanboy.

I guess if it had a TrueHD track it would have gotten 6 stars for audio??? Why is he trashing DD+ then giving it a perfect score???

I love when people who should know better make comments about how the audio would have been better with TrueHD? How does he know? Did he compare the masters side by side to be able to make a judgment or is he going by specs or even better pure suposition? Rember when digital audio was thought to be perfect vs. analog? Yeah, they got that one right didn't they! THis is a great sounding track. Maybe it can sound better but there is no way for us to know. Just enjoy a great sounding track.

Hey man, I'm still looking for the "DDD" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARS_Code) on the HD DVD covers so I can be sure I'm getting the absolute best audio quality. :D

The audio was rated a perfect five out of five on hdd, to make it sound inferior due to DD+ is just pure format bias.

There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate.

Personally I would much rather see some 6.1 / 7.1 releases then worry about lossless tracks that dont have any noticable difference.

UGH! Dude! It's been said over and over again that runtime isn't the be all, end all. Transformers is a very demanding film for encoders and they probably had to allocate a lot of bandwidth and space for it. They don't just say: "Ok, 25gb for the movie and 5gb for the audio. Go!".

I guess if it had a TrueHD track it would have gotten 6 stars for audio??? Why is he trashing DD+ then giving it a perfect score???

Because he's comparing True HD tracks to DD+ tracks of the same movie and guesstimates that Transformers would have sounded better even though it sounds great already.

Because he's comparing True HD tracks to DD+ tracks of the same movie and guesstimates that Transformers would have sounded better even though it sounds great already.

Again, if something is PERFECT, how can you get something more perfect. It's completely ridiculous to discuss it.

Then you take Pirates of The Caribean Black Perl, which gets 5 star ratings and the movie looks completely crappy. Noise all over the place, lack of details overall, but hey it's Blu-Ray, it's a hot title, it has to get a 5 star PQ. Stuff like this is really very obvious.

Have you even seen Pirates of The Caribean Black Pearl on Blu-ray? Nobody in their right mind would ever say anything like that. It's absolutely gorgeous. Are you sure it's not you that has an egenda to push?

I really think this has gotten out of control, it really feels like it's all coming from BR fanboys that are jealous...

"Hey guy's we don't have this awesome over the top movie which would be a perfect demo for Home Theater and even though it sounds amazing in every review I have read so far it sadly isn't lossless so.... Well it still sounds amazing but it would sound more amazing-er if it had lossless." What a joke IMO.

I am sure 90% of the people bashing DD+ could not be able to tell the difference in a blind test anyway.

Can't wait for Tuesday...

BTW. I will be format Neutral in a couple of weeks with a price drop PS3... I am a movie fanboy.

It is not all coming from BR fanboys who are bitter. The discussion is understandable, and many are format neautral such as myself. I have owned 2 HD-DVD players (A1 and now XA2) and have loved HD-DVD and Blu-ray equal at this point.

Have you even seen Pirates of The Caribean Black Pearl on Blu-ray? Nobody in their right mind would ever say anything like that. It's absolutely gorgeous. Are you sure it's not you that has an egenda to push?

Of course I have... both on my professionally calibrated Pioneer Elite 1130HD as well as Panasonic 1080p display. I own both POTC1 and POTC2 on Blu-Ray. POTC1 is disgrace. If you call that grainy, smudged representation as 5 star movie, hats of to you.

It is simply impossible that POTC2 on my same setups looks absolutely stunning and that POTC1 looks so bad, that it's very dissapointing. I actually like those movies.

I know Toe... the problem here is a regular conversation can't be had about this stuff on these boards now that they are so polluted with Red vs Blue. I am just so sick of it LOL.

Have you even seen Pirates of The Caribean Black Pearl on Blu-ray? Nobody in their right mind would ever say anything like that. It's absolutely gorgeous. Are you sure it's not you that has an egenda to push?

good but not gorgeous.... lots of grain to me

I guess it depends on how you perceive his comments. I did not see it as bashing, but simply his honest thoughts which many people echo on here.

Se to me it seemed like bashing when he brought it up in the extras. To me it was one thing to say even if it was great it could have still been better. It was another thing to say basically now here is why you don't have the extra special lossless sound track. Second I hate it when reviewers say things like DD+ is not a high resolution audio codec. It is and is why it was designed in the first place, if lossless was a requirement for HD then VC-1 and AVC at 1080P wouldn't cut it.

BTW. I will be format Neutral in a couple of weeks with a price drop PS3... I am a movie fanboy.

Is this confirmed state-side? I know a price drop is hitting Europe...

good but not gorgeous.... lots of grain to me

Grain is your problem? You would rather them use a DNR process like Anchor Bay's Divimax to get rid of the grain?

I'm sorry guys, both PotC movies look absolutely gorgeous to me. Not necessarily in comparison to anything specific on HD DVD but it's some of the best high-def I've seen.

Not confirmed by Sony but the internet is on fire with a Spiderman bundle hitting the states for the holidays. It makes sense for Sony to keep hush to avoid those waiting.

5-star audio quality FUDpuppets. :p

I really stopped carrying what HighDef Digest says anymore. Many of their reviewers are simply pro-Blu.


youy wan tto hear something funny? I posted something in the BD forum and a few people jumped on me saying HighDef Digest is HD DVD biased.

lol

I gave Transformers a perfect 5 for audio as well but I did put down in the review that I was disappointed that DW didn't include a lossless track. There is no reason we shouldn't get one. If for anything it would create a lot less hostility in this format war crap and put a lot more people at ease.

I gave Transformers a perfect 5 for audio as well but I did put down in the review that I was disappointed that DW didn't include a lossless track. There is no reason we shouldn't get one. If for anything it would create a lot less hostility in this format war crap and put a lot more people at ease.

But who? Put WHO at ease? The 50 people that actually care??

That's what annoys me about this to no end.

It's not HD audio, it's not perfect (as I said they rate Dolby Digital tracks as almost perfect) and it could have been vastly superior audibly.

I really stopped carrying what HighDef Digest says anymore. Many of their reviewers are simply pro-Blu.

peter is one of the most biased hd-dvd reviewers there are.

This thread is hilarious. :p

Not confirmed by Sony but the internet is on fire with a Spiderman bundle hitting the states for the holidays. It makes sense for Sony to keep hush to avoid those waiting.

Sony is keeping hush hush so they can sell off the remaining 60GB PS3's. If they announced the 40GB now with Spider-Man 3 then the 60GB's wouldn't sell.

It's not HD audio, it's not perfect (as I said they rate Dolby Digital tracks as almost perfect) and it could have been vastly superior audibly.

How do you know that it could be "vastly superior"? Have you compared the DD+ track to the studio master?

Do you care more about specs or about quality?

But who? Put WHO at ease? The 50 people that actually care??

That's what annoys me about this to no end.

Look at how much back and forth we have in this thread already over it. There is no reason a high def format shouldn't be able to support a lossless full resolution track. DD+ sound AMAZING to me, I have NO complaints at all about the quality it delivers. But with so many people bitching about something like this, it would be nice to see it just come to an end by just including something that shouldn't be an issue to do.

I guess Paramount just looked at the average people they're trying to convert over to HD anyway - those who don't know (and frankly don't care) what DD+ or TrueHD are - they just think HD DVD and Blu-ray are picture quality upgrades. Sucks for us, but giving more resources to the video encode (we don't know if the video would've suffered from a TrueHD track sucking up space) could very well push more J6Ps to HD and progress HD into winning the "war". Personally, I'll be waiting for a release with TrueHD or PCM, whether it's BD or HD. Netflix will do for now.

High Def Digests views on audio are void. Because that rate SD Dolby Digital tracks highly which is just retarded because they sound no where near as good as an HD audio track. In this case he's rated the DD+ track highly as he has no HD source to compare it with, if there was an HD audio source it would kill the DD+ track.

Now I'm getting frustrated, I have HD capable equipment, I want to take advantage of what I've payed for. Is that hard to understand?

I think this Transformers release will show everyone, both HD DVD and Blu-ray supporters, what the phrase "transparent to the master" means.

With holidays comeing up fast i think they have there sights more on J6P than early adopters, which they rightly need to do enyway.
How many J6P have a 5.1 setup? i'm the only one in my circle of friends with a decent 5.1 setup & i'm sure its the same for many here.
Sooooooooo double dip enyone? :)

Sony is keeping hush hush so they can sell off the remaining 60GB PS3's. If they announced the 40GB now with Spider-Man 3 then the 60GB's wouldn't sell.

Doesn't the 40Gb remove all backwards compatibility?

Doesn't the 40Gb remove all backwards compatibility?

Yes it does along with the multi-card reader and 2 USB ports. But to people who only want a cheap Blu-ray player (like myself) those features won't matter.

High Def Digests views on audio are void. Because that rate SD Dolby Digital tracks highly which is just retarded because they sound no where near as good as an HD audio track. In this case he's rated the DD+ track highly as he has no HD source to compare it with, if there was an HD audio source it would kill the DD+ track.

Now I'm getting frustrated, I have HD capable equipment, I want to take advantage of what I've payed for. Is that hard to understand?

No, what's hard to understand is the thinking that if it's not lossless then it is not HD. 1.5MB DD+ is HD sound. It is a required part of the HD DVD spec. It does not exist on standard DVD. Debating which sounds better is ridiculous at this point. These threads have been arguing about this for over a month now. Does anyone want to actually talk about what IS on the release?

High Def Digests views on audio are void. Because that rate SD Dolby Digital tracks highly which is just retarded because they sound no where near as good as an HD audio track. In this case he's rated the DD+ track highly as he has no HD source to compare it with, if there was an HD audio source it would kill the DD+ track.

Again, how do you know that it "would kill the DD+ track"?

A professional Hollywood sound mixer has posted on this forum that DD+ at the 1509 kb/s bit rate (the one Paramount uses) is audibly transparent to the master.

I'll take the word of an experienced professional film sound mixer over some random anonymous dude on the internet any day.

I'll take the word of an experienced professional film sound mixer over some random anonymous dude on the internet any day.

The anonymous dude can pull anything out of his arse and not have to back it up. Nice position to be in.

Yeah include me in that crowd as well, I have a slim PS2 that just collects dust if I need BC. Those features mean nothing to me.

I have a bunch of PS2 stuff and lack Backward capability is a big detractor to me. Without it, as a game machine it loses a lot.

back on Transformers, This movie release is going to be very big. Wal-mart is running radio commercials for it. I can't remember the last time I heard a walmart commercial for a DVD release.

Very detailed and impressive review:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/review.php?ID=30988

"...I watched several sequences from this disc in a screening room at Paramount, and if someone had told me I was watching an actual print of the movie, I would have believed them. That's how good it looks."

"...Put simply, this 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus rocks hard. The level of aural detail is most impressive. I could hear every click and whine of the transforming parts, the grinding of metal when the robots fought, and even the startup sound of the 360 when it comes alive.
...Everything about this track just screams "REFERENCE!" and it holds up easily to the best PCM and True HD mixes that I have heard. Call me a doubter no more."

Really? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=922695)

The anonymous dude can pull anything out of his arse and not have to back it up. Nice position to be in.

Ain't it the truth! :D Hey, maybe the studios should just put everthing DolbyHD, Uncompressed PCM etc. on the cases. Even if it is Dolby Digital Plus. People wouldn't even hear a difference. Then we could be done with these silly arguments.

Because he's comparing True HD tracks to DD+ tracks of the same movie and guesstimates that Transformers would have sounded better even though it sounds great already.

I don't agree or he would have given the TrueHD tracks 6/5. If 5/5 is the limit and TrueHD gets that then 4.5/5 for Transformer's DD+ should be the best it could get, but he gave it 5/5. You can't say that someting is more "perfect" or "perfect" doesn't mean perfect! Is "perfect" the ultimate or not? If he gives the best TrueHD title 5/5 and the best DD+ title 5/5 then to me it means that the best TrueHD title (to date) sounds no better than the best DD+ title (to date)! You can't have it both ways. It's either as good as it gets (5/5) or it isn't. His 5/5 for Transformers is bassed on what he's heard from both BD's lossless and TrueHD.

Cheers,

Grant

FORMAT NEUTRAL: My observation is that HD DVD is over-achieving, and if not, then BD is under-achieving!

Again, if something is PERFECT, how can you get something more perfect. It's completely ridiculous to discuss it.

I doubt any review site would define top marks as mathematical perfection. 5/5 does make the claims of a bias a strange argument indeed. He rates what's there judged against other product while being a good craftsman and informing us that lossless wasn't used for reason XY. Can't very well judge it against a non-existent lossless track of the same film, and consequently he doesn't dock points just for technicality. Doesn't get any more fair than that.

He gave the audio 5 stars.....so, how much more space do you need for TruHD over DD+?

And even though as a group, no matter which side of the fence you're on, care about the audio most people wont care about audio because they dont have the set up to fully realize the benefit.

No, what's hard to understand is the thinking that if it's not lossless then it is not HD. 1.5MB DD+ is HD sound. It is a required part of the HD DVD spec. It does not exist on standard DVD. Debating which sounds better is ridiculous at this point. These threads have been arguing about this for over a month now. Does anyone want to actually talk about what IS on the release?

1.5MB DOES exist on Standard DVD. Several early DVD's carried 1509mbps DTS tracks (e.g. Apollo 13, Twister, Lethal Weapon 1, 2, 3, etc.)

I doubt any review site would define top marks as mathematical perfection. 5/5 does make the claims of a bias a strange argument indeed. He rates what's there judged against other product while being a good craftsman and informing us that lossless wasn't used for reason XY. Can't very well judge it against a non-existent lossless track of the same film, and consequently he doesn't dock points just for technicality. Doesn't get any more fair than that.

But he has on many occasions docked movies for not having a TrueHD track as his only complaint. This was so good he gave it a higher rating then he has ever given a DD+ rating and then says it could be better with no proof.

Funny how its a bunch of BR supporters with no Transformers track debating the HD version being DD+ :D

Josh, why the 4.5 for PQ? I havent seen it yet but other reviews are giving it a perfect rating.

Again, how do you know that it "would kill the DD+ track"?

A professional Hollywood sound mixer has posted on this forum that DD+ at the 1509 kb/s bit rate (the one Paramount uses) is audibly transparent to the master.

Exactly...

Its as if fanboys from both sides go hog wild over this stuff where even if the audio was bit for bit how many people have the systems to actually tell the difference without suffering from the "Placebo Effect?":o

With holidays comeing up fast i think they have there sights more on J6P than early adopters, which they rightly need to do enyway.
How many J6P have a 5.1 setup? i'm the only one in my circle of friends with a decent 5.1 setup & i'm sure its the same for many here.
Sooooooooo double dip enyone? :)

An i think for the most part that if J6P has a 5.1 it is going to be a HTIB. I've got a set of PSB Alphas and I don't think that I would ever be able to tell the difference between DD+ and True HD. At the end of the day Enthusiasts are the Minority when it comes to selling movies (Overall) and what we demand is not what the average consumer cares about. I still see people buying HDMI and a Toslink cable at the same time thinking they need one for separate audio.

The general populace cares about one thing: How good it looks.

This thread is hilarious. :p

thats what makes the fanboy wars so entertaining. everyone is guilty no matter what. it's like staring into a den of madness.

because the hdd review tho, im pretty sure the blu boys are gonna run with this. being a mod on avs must suck man lol

this is so stupid it hurts the eyes,,,

How many DO actually HAVE a A/V reciver that will decode True HD and a HD-DVD player that will output the signal??? what? like 5% of the total amount?? how many have for example the new onkyo reciver+a hd-dvd that can output a real True HD signal?? give me a break, ask for stuff when you DO HAVE the stuff, if not, it's stupid to ask for things you won't be able to use properly.

At least that's the way I see it.

Besides Paramount-Dreamwork have delivered GREAT DD+ tracks like Dreamgirls, MI 3, Flags of our Fathers.... so... I wouldn't worry about the audio and will enjoy the movie for sure!

After that review i can see a lot of HD DVD hardware going off the shelves, this isn't to fuel any format war fire as i have both formats but if i read that only having a Blu Ray player i would be pi**ed and go straight out and get an HD DVD player.
Great review

Well just like he rated it, the soundtrack sounds amazing. I bet though, at some point in the future, they will release another version with a lossless track.

Yea, for all the people clamoring for lossless, of which .01% could blind-test the difference! :D

Everyone knows this to be true..Except die hard HD DVD fanboys on this forum...

"There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate." -TomsHT

Please drive through... :D

DD+ 1.5MB is high-resolution audio and can sound fantastic. Complaining about it just because it's not lossless, even when it sounds fantastic, is ridiculous. Sure, maybe it could be imperceptibly better if it was lossless, but there is no such thing as a 'perfect disc' - there is always room for improvement. People are saying this is one of the best audio mixes in recent history, so just enjoy it already.

Guess what, the video isn't lossless either - yet you don't hear people complaining about that constantly....

I gave Transformers a perfect 5 for audio as well but I did put down in the review that I was disappointed that DW didn't include a lossless track. There is no reason we shouldn't get one. If for anything it would create a lot less hostility in this format war crap and put a lot more people at ease.

So DW should have put lossless on Transformers because they obviously got wind of all the hostility on a lowly internet forum? O.K., I think I've got it now. :confused::D

Look at how much back and forth we have in this thread already over it.

Yeah, look at how much back and forth...from the same two dozen people, every time. This is a popular topic because people use it as a talking point to fuel their argument to why either HD DVD is inferior (due to disc space) or lossless audio isn't necessary (since the DD+ track is "5-stars" everywhere). Actually caring about the sound itself is a distant second-place reason.


Sytadel may have set a new standard for making throwaway comments without doing anything to back them up. Congrats, I guess.


I do look forward to picking this up tomorrow. Every site seems to overwhelmingly praise it so it seems like a safe bet to be a top contender for high def disc of the year.

There are already movies released with trueHD that are longer then Transformers 143 minute runtime so saying there wasnt enough space seems inaccurate.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if space was an issue. Paramount reps said a while back that lossless audio will be included on every release where space and bandwidth permits it.

Now remember that Paramount tends to use video bit-rates higher than other studios releasing on HD DVD. They are also fans of using space-hogging HD extras. Blades of Glory is a fine example of this, as this disc is pretty much filled.

Yes, I'm sure Paramount could have worked a 16-bit TrueHD track in there, but they don't seem to like bit-truncation. I'm personally happy that they offered us a feature rich release with an excellent DD+ encode. If it sounds amazing and looks amazing, then I don't mind much about the lack of lossless. There is no reason for me to double-dip this one when Paramount already delivered in a big way.

Again, how do you know that it "would kill the DD+ track"?

A professional Hollywood sound mixer has posted on this forum that DD+ at the 1509 kb/s bit rate (the one Paramount uses) is audibly transparent to the master.

I'll take the word of an experienced professional film sound mixer over some random anonymous dude on the internet any day.

Josh Z is think about ...

"FilmMixer" (Film Sound and Post Production Insider - Re-Recording Mixer, Hollywood, CA.) AVS Insider ...

... ONE such person that has compared the ...

1) Master
vs.
2) Lossless THD encode
vs.
3) 1.5 DD+ encode


... and he wrote ...

AVS thread post #480 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11532069#post11532069)

But I would be a fool and a liar if I told you that I could discern the difference between the master, a lossless THD encode and a 1.5 DD+ encode 9 times out of 10, even with my own tracks. That's why "just good enough" does it for me and I spend my energy on more important issues (like trying to save theatrical presentation from getting any worse than it is.)
__________________
Film Sound and Post Production Insider

Re-Recording Mixer, Hollywood, CA.

Let's examine AVS Insider "FilmMixer" for a second ...

1) He Is A Professional Film Mixer
.... a) Mixed around 90 films

2) Has 8+ years of experience with master films at 24/48 (digital films)!!!
.... a) Including "We Were Soldiers" (DD+ - DVDTalk HD Audio 5 stars (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=23581&___rd=1))

3) He Has Far Superior electronics - than we own and could ever hope for

4) He has Far Superior Studio Monitors - than we own and could ever hope for

5) He has Far Superior Optimum Sonic Mixing Studio - which I know that none of us have!!! ...

... and based on the above 5-Points, ... Logic dictates that I would certainly take HIS WORDS as verbatim vs. some self-proclaimed audio expert who is nothing more that a HT consumer hobbiest.

He brings out another very good point in an earlier post ...


AVS thread post #470 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11529424#post11529424)

Unless you have heard the originals, or compared the master to a lossless encode to a lossy encode, all of these complaints are moot. Even if you are striving for the best absolute presentation possible.

AVS'ers get way too caught up on specs, with out any real practical experience, and that is what this thread is really for.

One of the titles that really changed my mind in the lossy vs. lossless debate was "Dreamgirls." I had heard the original masters on the mixing stage, and I can tell you that the HD DVD was pretty spectacular.

And even, as some point out, this is a "paper war backed on specs," the fact is that even if Paramount/DW was still in the BR camp, the BR release would probably only include a 640 DD track and no internet enabled features, so the spec war, IMHO, would still "favor" the HD DVD on this title alone, based on DW/Paramount's past performance.

My Amazon Status = Shipment #1: Shipping Soon!!! Can't wait to Watch My Paramount EXCLUSIVE "Transformers" HD DVD tomorrow night!!! :D

Phil

The only shame here is that Universal didn't pony up to give this one the TrueHD track it truly deserves. - Evan Almighty 4 Stars

While I'm still disappointed that Universal didn't spring for high-resolution on this HD DVD release, overall the Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 track still delivers the aural goods. Turn it up! -Bourne Identity 4 Stars

The audio package is nearly as impressive as the video. Although it doesn't boast a high-end option like a Dolby TrueHD track, the included Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 EX surround mix (1.5 Mbps) is impressively proficient in everything it does. Rich dynamics immediately make their presence known with boomy bass and crisp treble ranges that didn't have peaking issues or stability problems. Dialogue is layered exactly as it should be within the soundscape and I wasn't distracted by any prioritization mishaps.-Hot Fuzz 4.5 stars

Universal also gives us a pretty sweet Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 surround track (at 1.5mbps), and with nary a dull moment, it's an aggressive mix that's sure to please. - Smokin' Aces 4 Stars

'Knocked Up' makes nice use of music -- both score and rock/pop tunes -- which fill up the rears nicely. Some lively discrete effects pop up during busy scenes (mostly the repeat excursions to a local nightclub). There is enough dynamic action that a high-res audio track could’ve improved envelopment, but instead what we get is just a smidgen above average. -Knocked Up 3.5 stars

None of these movies had any complaints. Nary a word about sounds running together or not being crisp enough. 4 Stars on movies packed with Dialog and Action. Oh and he seems to bring up the lack of TrueHD sometime after the Paramount announcement as before he may only hint at DD+ as being a detractor but later says it consistently.


Now what about movies with TrueHD.


As was the case with the previous HD DVD, however, I still found non-action scenes lacking in sustained atmosphere. Disappointingly, the sound design for the newly-added scenes seems to be a slight cut below the rest, as if not quite as much attention was paid to maintaining a consistency in terms of aggressiveness. Still, where it counts most, both the Dolby TrueHD and PCM soundtracks deliver in spades. -Troy DC 4.5 Stars

While it's tempting to dock the audio score for this HD DVD edition of '300' simply because its Blu-ray counterpart gives consumers the option of choosing their preferred high resolution audio format, judged on its own merits, the TrueHD track on this HD DVD is just too good be anything less than five stars all the way. -300 5 Stars

'Blood Diamond' enjoyed an excellent PCM presentation (48kHz/16-bit/4.6mbps) on the Blu-ray, and this HD DVD boasts a comparable Dolby TrueHD track (48kHz/16-bit). Though in the past I've found PCM tracks to get the slightest of edges in comparison with Dolby TrueHD, in this case I was hard-pressed to tell any difference. -5 Stars

Surrounds are fully engaged throughout, with the rears enjoying excellent fidelity and clarity, as well as pinpoint accuracy of directed sounds and terrific imaging. Dynamics are superb, with ultra-tight low bass and excellent, spacious high-end. Dialogue is also expertly recorded and balanced, and I didn't miss a word. In short, 'We Are Marshall' is a perfect example of the kind of polished, top tier soundtrack you'd expect from a big-budget Hollywood movie. -We are Marshall 4.5 Stars

Not only has he knocked movies down for not having TrueHD no matter how good it sounds. But apparently perfect (lossless) isn't good enough. Seriously I found a lot of 4's but barely any 5's. One thing I noticed was the amount of warner movies he said the PCM seemed better.

Where on the Blu-Ray side almost all but Starz movies get 4+ for their PCM titles even when bringing up annoyances like on Fantastic 4 II about having to actually lift his remote and increase the volume on a couple of parts.

I agree. Should have been room for a lossless track. .

Bandwidth limitation could be the culprit


I'm sure the Dolby Plus track sounds phenomenal - but psychologically I like knowing the track I'm listening to is lossless (placebo effect):)

Ditto

I wouldn't be at all surprised if space was an issue. Paramount reps said a while back that lossless audio will be included on every release where space and bandwidth permits it.

Now remember that Paramount tends to use video bit-rates higher than other studios releasing on HD DVD. They are also fans of using space-hogging HD extras. Blades of Glory is a fine example of this, as this disc is pretty much filled.

Yes, I'm sure Paramount could have worked a 16-bit TrueHD track in there, but they don't seem to like bit-truncation. I'm personally happy that they offered us a feature rich release with an excellent DD+ encode. If it sounds amazing and looks amazing, then I don't mind much about the lack of lossless. There is no reason for me to double-dip this one when Paramount already delivered in a big way.

I agree 100%, giving DD+ that sounds equal to that of lossess plus gaining a ton of extra content, superior menus, features, interactivity, PIP, a half dozen web enabled features is Beyond High Definition.... :D

There's certainly nothing wrong with people wishing there was a lossless track on this, but I can't help but laugh at the people that blindly say a lossless track would "kill" the DD+. They have absolutely no basis for this and it's just blind speculation.

I find that dvdtalk often rate Blu-ray movie PQ higher than HD DVD even if they're the same movie using the same encoding technology. Check it out for yourself and see.

So, does Transformers have a TrueHD track?:confused:

:D

Sorry, couldn't help it after all this. I'd be curious to hear the reviews and comparisons to DD+ if, in fact, Transformers is ever released in the future with a THD track.

Wow, you people bagging on the PQ of PotC must not have seen the horrible transfers on other discs. I just bought it yesterday and think it looks excellent, very sharp, good color. There are problems, yes, so maybe not 5-star quality, but calling it an "SD DVD" is just plain idiotic. Take your fan boy crap elsewhere nfinity.

5-star audio quality FUDpuppets. :p
I guess TrueHD would have yielded a 6 star audio rating, right?

I admit I was one of those harping about no DTHD when this was first announced. But after seeing a couple new trailers and reading the reviews(and coming to my senses?) I will be buying it tomorrow.:D

Wow, everyone here seems to take things so litteral.

To me, a 5 star audio review means it sounds awesome, mindblowing, earth-shattering. I would argue Saving Private Ryan on lowly DVD with its DTS 754kb track deserves a 5 star audio rating. Thats what the HDD review is implying. Its not TrueHD, but its still amazing at DD+.

I realize that theoretically it could be better, but I don't care if its mono 1.0, if its an amazing soundtrack why wouldn't it be rated 5 stars? Cause the specs say 1.0? I watch and listen to movies, not specs. And at this point, I'm more concerned about the formats selling and going mainstream, after that, complain about specs all you want.

I guess TrueHD would have yielded a 6 star audio rating, right?
I thought reviewers gave their ratings based on how something stacks up against competition in the same class. I could be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere in WSR (or maybe another publication) that that's what they did. It explains how you get 5/5 for a SD disc, and 5/5 on an HD/BD disc, when the HD/BD did in fact sound and look better than the SD version. They just aren't comparing them to one another, but rather the other discs they compete directly against. I thought that was the case, but maybe I'm wrong.

Look at how much back and forth we have in this thread already over it. There is no reason a high def format shouldn't be able to support a lossless full resolution track. DD+ sound AMAZING to me, I have NO complaints at all about the quality it delivers. But with so many people bitching about something like this, it would be nice to see it just come to an end by just including something that shouldn't be an issue to do.

but they mentioned space being the reason it wasn't included. i think if they didnt have to include a DD+ along with a TrueHD it could have been done, but TrueHD does not carry a core track so both would have to included and a DD+1.5 and TrueHD simply would not fit along with a high bitrate video of nearly 2 and a half hours long. unless they lowered bitrate and used a dd+640 track, which i'm sure just as many ppl will bitch and holler about. this would be one problem the 51gb discs can solve.

Wow, everyone here seems to take things so litteral.

To me, a 5 star audio review means it sounds awesome, mindblowing, earth-shattering. I would argue Saving Private Ryan on lowly DVD with its DTS 754kb track deserves a 5 star audio rating. Thats what the HDD review is implying. Its not TrueHD, but its still amazing at DD+.

If that were true then all TrueHD tracks would be 5 stars wouldn't they. But even that is rare. Its nice for reviewers to be able to sit back and say there is nothing that ever could be better, but it kind of hard to listen to some one go on and on about how disappointing not having a TrueHD track is while in the same breathe giving it a rating that barely ever befalls any HDM disc whether they used PCM, TrueHD, or DD+.

I guess TrueHD would have yielded a 6 star audio rating, right?

if it was available and actually sounded better to the reviewer than the 1.5 track, then the 1.5 track would have been a 4.5.

if it was available and actually sounded better to the reviewer than the 1.5 track, then the 1.5 track would have been a 4.5.


I guess it doesnt matter much at this point, had paramont not selected hd-dvd exclusivly it would have been suicide for hd-dvd if the blu ray version of this movie contained uncompressed or TrueHD or both. One area hd-dvd bowes to Blu ray, space!

I agree 100%, giving DD+ that sounds equal to that of lossess plus gaining a ton of extra content, superior menus, features, interactivity, PIP, a half dozen web enabled features is Beyond High Definition.... :D

+1

I guess it doesnt matter much at this point, had paramont not selected hd-dvd exclusivly it would have been suicide for hd-dvd if the blu ray version of this movie contained uncompressed or TrueHD or both. One area hd-dvd bowes to Blu ray, space!

this is one of the reasons i think the deal was made, not only to get Transformers and Shrek 3 exclusively hd dvd for the holiday season, but to kill off all the paramount titles coming to blu-ray that were going to have lossless audio when the hd dvd counterpart might not. it's not always space either, sometimes it's the bandwidth.

this is one of the reasons i think the deal was made, not only to get Transformers and Shrek 3 exclusively hd dvd for the holiday season, but to kill off all the paramount titles coming to blu-ray that were going to have lossless audio when the hd dvd counterpart might not.
^^^Now that right there is funny.

I guess it doesnt matter much at this point, had paramont not selected hd-dvd exclusivly it would have been suicide for hd-dvd if the blu ray version of this movie contained uncompressed or TrueHD or both. One area hd-dvd bowes to Blu ray, space!

Why are you sure it would not contain a lesser 640k DD track like one third of all releases? It definietly could not have matched HD's features and interactivity so there would have also been content loss.

The majority of all Blu-ray movies released are on 25g discs with less space then HD DVD. Plus use of MPEG2 on 50% or all titles releases and/or the use of uncompressed audio tracks instead of advanced audio options has wasted space and limited many movies to having less features and content then HD DVD or DVD.

No but even though he said it was absolutely an amazing track and he gave it 5 stars, he continuously brings up the fact that they didn't include a lossless. He even mentions it in the extras section. How you can say this is one of the best he has ever heard and the next minute lambasting their choice to use it is beyond me.

Let's face it, a DD+ track by definition cannot sound better than the TrueHD track, but there is always the possibility than the TrueHD track can sound better. So if Transformers is released in the future with TrueHD, it is possible that it deserves more than 5 stars. But of course we won't know that until then.

Let's face it, a DD+ track by definition cannot sound better than the TrueHD track, but there is always the possibility than the TrueHD track can sound better. So if Transformers is released in the future with TrueHD, it is possible that it deserves more than 5 stars. But of course we won't know that until then.

What you are saying is like like talking about how much better a FXX is then the Enzo sitting your garage.

For everyone that thinks TrueHD would be 6 stars, why does everyone think 5stars is litterally perfect? Its just a rating meaning its one of the best. Obviously TrueHD would be better. Heres a simple analogy, Comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini speed wise. Sure,they are not equal, but they would still both be rated 5 stars.

DD+ sound AMAZING to me, I have NO complaints at all about the quality it delivers. But with so many people bitching about something like this, it would be nice to see it just come to an end by just including something that shouldn't be an issue to do.

Let's get something straight here. There might be a small amount of legitimate discourse on this subject, but the majority of complaints are from Blu-ray supporters who seek to politicize this issue i. e. using it as an argument for Blu-ray "superiority". Lending these political statements creedence by saying the lossless track should be included just to keep them quiet in fact legitimizes these unfounded complaints and empowers the authors to continue their attacks.

Let's face it, a DD+ track by definition cannot sound better than the TrueHD track, but there is always the possibility than the TrueHD track can sound better. So if Transformers is released in the future with TrueHD, it is possible that it deserves more than 5 stars. But of course we won't know that until then.

Wrong. A DD+ track can potentially sound better than a TrueHD track. If a DD+ track is 24/48, whereas the TrueHD track is only 16/48, which is the case for a lot of TrueHD tracks, then the DD+ could sound better.

Wow, you people bagging on the PQ of PotC must not have seen the horrible transfers on other discs. I just bought it yesterday and think it looks excellent, very sharp, good color. There are problems, yes, so maybe not 5-star quality, but calling it an "SD DVD" is just plain idiotic. Take your fan boy crap elsewhere nfinity.

I said, compared to POTC2 it looked like SD DVD, which is true, compare the two and you will see the difference. It's not fanboy, I am a consumer who bought the title, paid the premium price btw and got served with vastly inferior version of the movie compared to the POTC2, so please keep your insulting comments to yourself. Somehow all this is presented in "POTC discs are spectacular" when in fact only POTC2 is spectacular, POTC1 is average at best.

And my point was that IT IS NOT A 5 STAR disc and yet it got praised at such. Absolutely false. Shows a lot of about HDD credibility.

Have you even looked at some other 5-star Blu-Ray titles reviewed on HDD? Take a look at Invincible that also looks awful, it's right up there with King Arthur (maybe a tad sharped) but with grain as sh!t, yet it got a 5 star PQ. Absolutely laughable. I have posted on their forums many times a question whether or not some of their reviewers are blind or have some magical equipment where these Blu-Ray movies look completely different. Maybe I should be buying "that" equipment, cause you know, I wanna see that 5 star picture.

Merged, cleaned, smothered, chunked, scattered ..and re-opened.

Keep all Transformers reviews to this one thread if possible.

Thanks.

I said, compared to POTC2 it looked like SD DVD, which is true, compare the two and you will see the difference. It's not fanboy, I am a consumer who bought the title, paid the premium price btw and got served with vastly inferior version of the movie compared to the POTC2, so please keep your insulting comments to yourself. Somehow all this is presented in "POTC discs are spectacular" when in fact only POTC2 is spectacular, POTC1 is average at best.

And my point was that IT IS NOT A 5 STAR disc and yet it got praised at such. Absolutely false. Shows a lot of about HDD credibility.

Have you even looked at some other 5-star Blu-Ray titles reviewed on HDD? Take a look at Invincible that also looks awful, it's right up there with King Arthur (maybe a tad sharped) but with grain as sh!t, yet it got a 5 star PQ. Absolutely laughable. I have posted on their forums many times a question whether or not some of their reviewers are blind or have some magical equipment where these Blu-Ray movies look completely different. Maybe I should be buying "that" equipment, cause you know, I wanna see that 5 star picture.


All your post proves is that YOUR personal idea of what makes a disk 5 stars is different then the reviewers......
Sorry but just because you dont happen to think something deserves 5 stars, doesnt mean that other people wont. And their opinion of a movies worthiness, is just that, an opinion. Just because you happen to disagree doesnt give you the right to question their credibility.

Does anyone see the absurdity in the fact that people are quibbling over the differences between 1.5mb DD+ and TruHD when the codecs compressing these movies ignore 95-97% of the visual movie data and yet there are claims of "transpareny to the master" on some of them?

I do!

Cheers,

Grant

Let's get something straight here. There might be a small amount of legitimate discourse on this subject, but the majority of complaints are from Blu-ray supporters who seek to politicize this issue i. e. using it as an argument for Blu-ray "superiority". Lending these political statements creedence by saying the lossless track should be included just to keep them quiet in fact legitimizes these unfounded complaints and empowers the authors to continue their attacks.

Wow! You're on a roll today. Great post!

Cheers,

Grant

Why are you sure it would not contain a lesser 640k DD track like one third of all releases? It definietly could not have matched HD's features and interactivity so there would have also been content loss.

b/c paramount had made an announcement to include lossless audio on blu-ray titles starting from Blades of Glory.

All your post proves is that YOUR personal idea of what makes a disk 5 stars is different then the reviewers......
Sorry but just because you dont happen to think something deserves 5 stars, doesnt mean that other people wont. And their opinion of a movies worthiness, is just that, an opinion. Just because you happen to disagree doesnt give you the right to question their credibility.

Of course it does. My eyes, my money I have invested in setups and discs all give me the right to question their credibility.

I can do that with anyone who comes out and says that a "turd" smells like a flower, despite the fact they are a flower expert.

If anyone can tell me that POTC1 is a 5-star disc with a straight face, I will definitely have to ask them what's POTC2 then on that scale? 7?

I would really want an equipment that provides me with 5-star PQ for titles like POTC1 as my almost $20k setup in my living room doesn't seem to do it.

Let me first just say that the lack of a lossless track does not bother me at all. I can't wait to pick up a copy of Transformers tomorrow.(assuming I can find one)

In HighDefDigest's review, Peter Bracke says that Paramount's reason to not use lossless audio is because of space limitations. First, do you believe that? Second, do you guys think if the TL51 disc was an option right now for the studios, it would have allowed them to include a lossless track?

Of course it does. My eyes, my money I have invested in setups and discs all give me the right to question their credibility.

I can do that with anyone who comes out and says that a "turd" smells like a flower, despite the fact they are a flower expert.

If anyone can tell me that POTC1 is a 5-star disc with a straight face, I will definitely have to ask them what's POTC2 then on that scale? 7?

I would really want an equipment that provides me with 5-star PQ for titles like POTC1 as my almost $20k setup in my living room doesn't seem to do it.

what about $2k lasic surgery? :D

i keed i keed. for me if potc2 is a 5 then potc1 is a 4.5 or 5.

Let me first just say that the lack of a lossless track does not bother me at all. I can't wait to pick up a copy of Transformers tomorrow.(assuming I can find one)

In HighDefDigest's review, Peter Bracke says that Paramount's reason to not use lossless audio is because of space limitations. First, do you believe that? Second, do you guys think if the TL51 disc was an option right now for the studios, it would have allowed them to include a lossless track?

well they certainly wouldnt have an excuse not to include lossless audio w/o telling ppl they are waiting to double dip us in a year and triple dip us when the sequel comes out.

Wrong. A DD+ track can potentially sound better than a TrueHD track. If a DD+ track is 24/48, whereas the TrueHD track is only 16/48, which is the case for a lot of TrueHD tracks, then the DD+ could sound better.

I think this should be a primary point of discussion as it may be the primary reason why the DD+ sounds so damn good and why many insiders are "suggesting" that DD+ can sound virtually identical to the master.

Please other people chime in on the 24/48 vs 16/48 issue.

Wrong. A DD+ track can potentially sound better than a TrueHD track. If a DD+ track is 24/48, whereas the TrueHD track is only 16/48, which is the case for a lot of TrueHD tracks, then the DD+ could sound better.

Why stop there?

If a DD+ track is 24/48, whereas the TrueHD track is 1/1, then the DD+ could sound better.

And if the DD+ track is from a 2007 source, and the TrueHD track is from a 1910 source, then the DD+ could sound better.

And on and on ...

I find that dvdtalk often rate Blu-ray movie PQ higher than HD DVD even if they're the same movie using the same encoding technology. Check it out for yourself and see.

DVDTalk has a large staff, and often the Blu-ray and HD DVD reviews are often written by separate people independently of one another. The Blu-ray reviewer may not have seen the HD DVD to compare, and vice versa.

Josh, why the 4.5 for PQ? I havent seen it yet but other reviews are giving it a perfect rating.

I haven't seen the disc, so I couldn't tell you. I'm busy working on the other Transformers movie, the real one. :)

What people need to keep in mind is that these ratings are largely subjective. One person's 4.5 is another person's 5.

I gave Transformers a perfect 5 for audio as well but I did put down in the review that I was disappointed that DW didn't include a lossless track. There is no reason we shouldn't get one. If for anything it would create a lot less hostility in this format war crap and put a lot more people at ease.

I'm glad Paramount came out with the DD+ track that rocks! Shows exactly what DD+ @ 1.5 can do in the hands of a good mixer. As for hostility, if it wasn't this, they'd cling onto something else.

With as big of an exclusive title like Transformers, coupled with the general confrontational nature of fanatics on both sides, there's nothing Paramount could have done.

If they weren't talking about audio, then it'd be about the bitrate used in certain scenes, how everything could've fit on one disc..etc...

I'm a little confused. Does the TF HD-DVD + X-Box 360 add-on = reference (transparent to lossless) quality audio? I planned on upgrading this player in the future, but if there's no discernible difference between a 1.5Mbit track and a lossless track then I can't see any reason to do so.

I just want my copy of the movie. I pre-ordered from Amazon on Sept. 10 but they have a scheduled ship date of 10-22. Usually Amazon ships on release day, or the day before.

Thanks for letting me whine.

-Byrd

Why are you sure it would not contain a lesser 640k DD track like one third of all releases? It definietly could not have matched HD's features and interactivity so there would have also been content loss.

The majority of all Blu-ray movies released are on 25g discs with less space then HD DVD. Plus use of MPEG2 on 50% or all titles releases and/or the use of uncompressed audio tracks instead of advanced audio options has wasted space and limited many movies to having less features and content then HD DVD or DVD.


Well I am not sure, all I am saying is that on Blu there would be space for lossless audio. As far as interactivity I am not interested at all, I have not ever accessed any of these extras on any of my HD-DVD's, to me that is wasted space that would be better used for better audio options. I am all about pq and audio quality which both format's can do great. I think it is a major mistake with THIS movie not to include a single lossless audio track. I will buy Transformers in hd format but I think it is sad to see less than the best that the format has to offer, but this is just my opinion.

Can we all remember that 'Peter Bracke' said this statement NOT, I say again NOT Paramount.

until they confirm or deny this statement it is heresay, inadmissable in court so why the heck is it taken as gospel here.

Why stop there?

If a DD+ track is 24/48, whereas the TrueHD track is 1/1, then the DD+ could sound better.

And if the DD+ track is from a 2007 source, and the TrueHD track is from a 1910 source, then the DD+ could sound better.

And on and on ...

Oh, so where are these TrueHD tracks that are 1/1? Where are these TrueHD tracks that are from a 1910 source? On the other hand, I can list many TrueHD and PCM tracks that are only 16/48 but could have been 24/48. In those cases, the sound might have been better with 24/48 1.5mbps Dolby Digital Plus, in addition to allowing more space for the video encode.

For everyone that thinks TrueHD would be 6 stars, why does everyone think 5stars is litterally perfect? Its just a rating meaning its one of the best. Obviously TrueHD would be better. Heres a simple analogy, Comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini speed wise. Sure,they are not equal, but they would still both be rated 5 stars.

No way am I paying $300,000+ for lossless audio

"Transformers is gonna be AWESOME on Blu-ray!!! I can't wait!! This will be the Hi-Def release of the year!!!!...Paramount has gone HD DVD exclusive??...Transformers will be HD DVD only???.... Well it's not really such a good movie anyway. It will have a low bitrate so it probably won't look so great. No Lossless audio? HD DVD can have Transformers...what a piece of crap..."

Ah man, I love it! I hear ya man, you gotta love the Blu Crew...

I just want my copy of the movie. I pre-ordered from Amazon on Sept. 10 but they have a scheduled ship date of 10-22. Usually Amazon ships on release day, or the day before.

Thanks for letting me whine.

-Byrd

That's why I never pre-order because it's hit or miss and will spend the extra few bucks to run over to CC.

to let everyone know, my copy of transformers shipped today from amazon and should be here tomorrow. ima prime customer. before it said the movie would arrive on thursday, so amazon buyers should get thiers on release day.

now back to your fanboyisms.....

Well I had Transformers on my save list for quite a while on NF. It went on my queue about a month ago an d I moved it to 8th or 9th position. I figured it would be a long time for it to be shipped so Saturday (2 days ago) I moved it to #1 just so it would be there when it was available.

Lo and Behold, guess what's ariving tomorrow in a little red envelope!?!

Can't wait.

to let everyone know, my copy of transformers shipped today from amazon and should be here tomorrow. ima prime customer. before it said the movie would arrive on thursday, so amazon buyers should get thiers on release day.

now back to your fanboyisms.....


Same here, shipped tonight, Transforming tomorrow! Will be matched up with my newest HT arrival

http://www.efjay.net/images/Denon1.JPG

regarding the image (haven't seen the hd dvd yet) i remember from the two theatrical 3DLP 2K screenings that sometimes the sce wasn"t ultra sharp. lens focus or intentional to incorporate the cgi, whatever it be. so don"t this to change once transfered on hd dvd.

as for sound, as we discussed with laser and dvds, the mix is paramount (no humour intended). and 1.5mbs is sure a lot more and better than 0.383

but nevertheless is highlights one weak pt of hd dvd: available space.
30GB is not 50GB. hd dvd MUST find a way to offer 50gb discs if it wants to succeed vs blu ray. at the IFA in Berlin in August BRAY was all over the place. HDdvd was not.

Well I had Transformers on my save list for quite a while on NF. It went on my queue about a month ago an d I moved it to 8th or 9th position. I figured it would be a long time for it to be shipped so Saturday (2 days ago) I moved it to #1 just so it would be there when it was available.

Lo and Behold, guess what's ariving tomorrow in a little red envelope!?!

Can't wait.

Yep, coming in a red envelope to me tomorrow as well, even though I plan on buying it later.

No way am I paying $300,000+ for lossless audio

You can add "IGN 10/10" to your sig also.

You can add "IGN 10/10" to your sig also.

Yeah, they give the movie 7/10, PQ 10/10 and AQ 10/10 while extras get 8/10.

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/827/827463p2.html

Can we all remember that 'Peter Bracke' said this statement NOT, I say again NOT Paramount.

until they confirm or deny this statement it is heresay, inadmissable in court so why the heck is it taken as gospel here.

LOL, like Paramount is going to come out and say:

"Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."

That would just set them up for the inevitable "Then why did yo side with HD DVD?" slam from people here and the media!

LOL, like Paramount is going to come out and say:

"Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."

That would just set them up for the inevitable "Then why did yo side with HD DVD?" slam from people here and the media!

There are BD titles out there (Flags of our Fathers) that are two disc sets. How come? I guess BD50 isn't big enough to hold everything they wanted to include. I don't think this particular title had a lossless audio track either. No wonder Toshiba is working on the TL51 - if this happens then does all this disk space stuff just go away? Propably, and maybe Disney goes neutral.

Cheers,

Grant

LOL, like Paramount is going to come out and say:

"Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."

That would just set them up for the inevitable "Then why did yo side with HD DVD?" slam from people here and the media!

This love affair with lossless only matters to the .0001 percent of people who can truly take advantage of it. Why dont you guys with your Macitosh amps and your Martin Logans give it a rest allready because no one else cares about LPCM.:confused:

LOL, like Paramount is going to come out and say:

"Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."

That would just set them up for the inevitable "Then why did yo side with HD DVD?" slam from people here and the media!


Not to mention the fact that outside of a couple little message boards and about 100 people total.......no one is going to care whether or not the audio track on this movie is lossless or not.

All I know is tomorrow night I might blow out my subwoofer.

Yeah, they give the movie 7/10, PQ 10/10 and AQ 10/10 while extras get 8/10.

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/827/827463p2.html

.

This love affair with lossless only matters to the .0001 percent of people who can truly take advantage of it. Why dont you guys with your Macitosh amps and your Martin Logans give it a rest allready because no one else cares about LPCM.:confused:

And what REALLY makes you roll your eyes is the fact that most of the Blu fans whinning about Transformers' lack of lossless audio are watching their Blu discs on a PS3 connected a 27" standard def TV in their bedroom in their parent's house! :D

Mark

LOL, like Paramount is going to come out and say:

"Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."

That would just set them up for the inevitable "Then why did yo side with HD DVD?" slam from people here and the media!

Fact is they did say it, like it or not, from a trusted source and many others in attendance. We all know Paramount made its decision to go HD DVD only based on money, and many directors and the other movie studio's did not like this anti-consumer move. What Paramount should have said at the "Transformers' media event with Paramount" was that because they chose to add In movie experience Picture in picture, that they ran out of bandwidth/bitrate to include TrueHD on Transformers. This would have been more accurate since the film could have had lossless audio and the same video had they not had any IME/PIP included on the first disc. The same thing happened with the King Kong decision. We shall see how the future unfolds with future releases from Paramount.

Fact is they did say it, like it or not, from a trusted source and many others in attendance.
Where is the Paramount announcement that reads, "Well folks the reason Transformers doesn't have lossless audio is because we ran out of disc space."?
We all know Paramount made its decision to go HD DVD only based on money, and many directors and the other movie studio's did not like this anti-consumer move.

How do we all know this? Where did that come from?

I'm happy to see conflicting ideas and opinions...an open dialog helps people develop new ideas and make new decisions, myself included. But using sweeping absolutes for things that you definitely can't prove, and/or are untrue weakens your argument, and can even make you look fanboyish. I know it takes more time and restraint, but sticking to facts and citing your sources gives you a lot more credibility and will increase the chance that knowledgeable people will give your ideas credence.

If you want to argue that $150 million in co-branded marketing was overwhelmingly the primary reason that Paramount went HD DVD exclusive (as opposed to a theory that it helps them them get into Wal-Mart or that there were a wide range of things that pushed them in that direction) and that Paramount's comments strongly allude to a lack of disc space as the reason there is no lossless audio, I'd be happy to listen...but the above post is not convincing.

I would have loved a lossless track, you don't need super expensive equipment to take advantage of that stuff, but I mean, does that mean the regular DD+ track is bad? hell no.. its great.

We don't know anything about Paramount. Besides if only this deal existed, why hasn't Disney, MGM, Fox ruled out any payments or deals? Only Iger mentioned it, his words were carefully chosen and did not rule out payment altogether. Since Sony and others like to bring this up often, why hasn't Sony and BDA made any statements that they have never paid absolutely anyone for exclusive BD support? They can't is why. So can we stop the charade that only HD DVD paid Par already? You have to be naive or Blu-blind to think Sony is not engaged in deals.

11:21pm it works!
Was watching the 2nd disc, popped in the 1st, and it was sitting at the "loading update" screen for about 5-10 minutes.
Then went to the Extras, selected Web-Enabled Features and it works.
I'm using an Elite XBOX 360 with the HD-DVD Addon. Also on each web-enabled feature it shows how much space it will take and how much space is available.

Only 2 available right now. 3 more coming soon.
The ones enabled are:

Intelligence Mode. On screen widgets to track action of the film, GPS Tracker, Robot Status Alerts, Data Panel. (Watching this right now, WOW the whole left side of the screen shows all the Transformers and their stats, on top is the GPS Tracker and on the Bottom is the Movie Trivia. The movie trivia is different than the on disc Transformers HUD). I actually like this a lot better than the features on Fast & the Furious: Tokyo Drift or Miami Vice or King Kong where the "U-Control" features a little circle on the corner of the screen and if a gps or pip or stat is available it glows and you have to use the remote to select it.

Sector 7 Transmission 1
First secret transmission of six video files. more will be added soon. (This video is from the sector7 website when they were promoting the movie. This particular video that's available now is of the Parking Garage CCTV film showing a VW Bug parking then transforming into a robot and walking away. An homage to Bumblebee)

Other web enabled features not yet available:
Transformers Profiler. In-movie guide for learning more about the production including cast, crew, locations, etc.

Menubots. Transform the in-movie menubar to a transformer. Select from multiple looks including, bumblebee, optimus prime, and megatron.

My Clips.
Mark your favorite clips from the movie and re-order them into a custom playlist. then you can share them with other hd-dvd internet connected users. (just like 300.. aka Make Your Own Movie)

You can add "IGN 10/10" to your sig also.
Not anymore. Check IGN again. It now says 9/10. I think they screwed up when originally posting the review.

Not anymore. Check IGN again. It now says 9/10. I think they screwed up when originally posting the review.

His sig is audio, and audio is 10/10 as is PQ 10/10.

well we attended the digital screening back in june at CINEMAEXPO in Amsterdam (Katzenberg was there etc, speech about 3D cinema, losses for the industry due to the copies etc).
the sound was PCM 6channels uncompressed thus and it floored everybody.
(mandatory by DLP for true digital screenings).
as with FINDING NEMO couple of years ago (amazing sound too).
you can hear the difference, with digital amps, big pro speakers etc. it's MASSIVE. the dynamics are INCREDIBLE.
i'd say one needs some serious hardware to experience fully uncompressed digital sound with that kind of mixes, which is very demanding on the system.

Here's the size of the main Transformers disc (picked up from Target about 10 minutes ago):

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers.JPG

2nd disc:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers2.JPG

Here's the size of the main Transformers disc (picked up from Target about 10 minutes ago):

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers.JPG

The 2nd disc is 22GB, btw.


Well that answers that. Its not Space then, because with 3Gb available if they moved one or two special features over to the second disc then it would have easily fit, heck it might of fit with 3GB.

Well that answers that. Its not Space then, because with 3Gb available if they moved one or two special features over to the second disc then it would have easily fit, heck it might of fit with 3GB.

It answers nothing

Thank you CKYRO1 for posting this info in another thread (which is now closed). I just ordered my copy from FYE.com because of the $7 rebate:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transformers for $20.99

FYI.... FYE.com has Transformers for 27.99. In addition they have a $7 mail-in-rebate, bringing the cost to 20.99 (+tax).

Thank you CKYRO1 for posting this info in another thread (which is now closed). I just ordered my copy from FYE.com because of the $7 rebate:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transformers for $20.99

FYI.... FYE.com has Transformers for 27.99. In addition they have a $7 mail-in-rebate, bringing the cost to 20.99 (+tax).


+shipping, correct?

Now, is the 30GB actually 30GB of usable space, or is it like a hard drive and has less usable space than is actually marketed? If they could've used all 30GB then I would think they could've squeezed in a TrueHD track if they dropped the DD+ to 640kbps. There's almost 4GB to spare with a 1.5mbps track.

anyone order the disk from DVD planet?? I've preordered mine for a month and they are saying its out of stock!

I think AVS should require every member to disclose their audio and video equipment, with picture evidence. I'd like to know howmany of these people whining about lossless audio can actually take advantage of it.

I have an HDMI 1080P Yamaha receiver, a 7.1 setup which includes JBL Stadium left/right (dual 8"), a JBL voice center (dual 5"), and Yamaha surrounds and sub. It's not a $10,000 high end system, but it's certainly above average.

I've switched between Dolby 5.1 and Dolby TrueHD many many many MANY times, and I can assure everyone willing to listen that I can't tell the difference. Sometimes it may seem like I hear something I'm not actually hearing. But if I did a blind test, I can't tell. I had a friend's PS3 over, and we tried the same with PCM. Only difference...PCM was louder. Thats it.


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/edcokpareke/crib.jpg

Now, is the 30GB actually 30GB of usable space, or is it like a hard drive and has less usable space than is actually marketed? If they could've used all 30GB then I would think they could've squeezed in a TrueHD track if they dropped the DD+ to 640kbps. There's almost 4GB to spare with a 1.5mbps track.

Doh..

It would be about 28GB. Still about 2GB and my point was if some of the HD extras were moved over to the disc with 6GB available they could of put a TrueHD track. I have a feeling that they were pretty sure that their was little to no audible difference and for the sake of putting a couple more extras on the first disc the went with the DD+ track. Compromises have to be made no matter what your talking about and I don't think that this was much of one.

well size does matter :D

Now, is the 30GB actually 30GB of usable space, or is it like a hard drive and has less usable space than is actually marketed? If they could've used all 30GB then I would think they could've squeezed in a TrueHD track if they dropped the DD+ to 640kbps. There's almost 4GB to spare with a 1.5mbps track.

I think that the 30GB they use to describe HD-DVD and the 50GB for Blu-ray is not a real GB. They use the marketing definition of 1,000,000,000 bytes or 10^9 bytes instead of 1,073,741,824 bytes, 1024³, or 2^30 bytes. Their real sizes are 27.93967723846435546875GB and 46.56612873077392578125GB respectively. As no file system that I'm aware of has zero overhead you're also going to lose a bit when you use UDF.

I think AVS should require every member to disclose their audio and video equipment, with picture evidence. I'd like to know howmany of these people whining about lossless audio can actually take advantage of it.

I have an HDMI 1080P Yamaha receiver, a 7.1 setup which includes JBL Stadium left/right (dual 8"), a JBL voice center (dual 5"), and Yamaha surrounds and sub. It's not a $10,000 high end system, but it's certainly above average.

I've switched between Dolby 5.1 and Dolby TrueHD many many many MANY times, and I can assure everyone willing to listen that I can't tell the difference. Sometimes it may seem like I hear something I'm not actually hearing. But if I did a blind test, I can't tell. I had a friend's PS3 over, and we tried the same with PCM. Only difference...PCM was louder. Thats it.


http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/edcokpareke/crib.jpg

Most people don't have 1080p televisions/projectors. Of those even a smaller number can tell the difference. How would you feel if this was a 1080i release?

Most people don't have 1080p televisions/projectors. Of those even a smaller number can tell the difference. How would you feel if this was a 1080i release?

1080I60? or 1080I30?

1080I60 I would be fine with 1080I30 I would have a problem with it.

Just like this 1.5Mbs I am Fine with it 640Kbs I would have an issue with. Would still buy it no matter which of those 4 configurations it was.

Doh..

It would be about 28GB. Still about 2GB and my point was if some of the HD extras were moved over to the disc with 6GB available they could of put a TrueHD track. I have a feeling that they were pretty sure that their was little to no audible difference and for the sake of putting a couple more extras on the first disc the went with the DD+ track. Compromises have to be made no matter what your talking about and I don't think that this was much of one.

if you remove IME, doesn't make it any different then bluray.

Well that answers that. Its not Space then, because with 3Gb available if they moved one or two special features over to the second disc then it would have easily fit, heck it might of fit with 3GB.

Actually it's going to be closer to 1GB (maybe less) once you convert the marketing 30GB to real GB and put a file system on the disk.

Most people don't have 1080p televisions/projectors. Of those even a smaller number can tell the difference. How would you feel if this was a 1080i release?

I own an HD-A20, and I once owned the Xbox HD add on connected via VGA @ 1080P. Just like I couldnt tell the difference between DD+ & TrueHD, I couldn't and still can't differentiate between 1080i & 1080P on my Samsung 56" 1080P DLP. Infact, I use my HD-A20 @ 1080i.

If Transformers were a 1080i release, I'd be ok with it. Sure, you AVS folks will bicker and whine for weeks with no end. But the reality is, a HUGE percentage of people don't have the equipment to appreciate 1080P, and even those that do can't tell the difference.

Actually it's going to be closer to 1GB (maybe less) once you convert the marketing 30GB to real GB and put a file system on the disk.

Nope. 27.9 GB windows speak vs. 26.3. so it wold be 1.6 GB. So maybe it wouldn't fit but like someone said if they knocked the DD+ to 640k and moved the HD trailers to the second disc, It think it would have fit.

I picked this up at walmart for $29 which seems to be the norm around here. When I get off work at 4pm ill be watching it.

I might get planet terror. But I was a little disapontied in death proof.

Nope. 27.9 GB windows speak vs. 26.3. so it wold be 1.6 GB. So maybe it wouldn't fit but like someone said if they knocked the DD+ to 640k and moved the HD trailers to the second disc, It think it would have fit.

It would only be 27.9 if UDF 2.5 has zero overhead.

I own an HD-A20, and I once owned the Xbox HD add on connected via VGA @ 1080P. Just like I couldnt tell the difference between DD+ & TrueHD, I couldn't and still can't differentiate between 1080i & 1080P on my Samsung 56" 1080P DLP. Infact, I use my HD-A20 @ 1080i.

If Transformers were a 1080i release, I'd be ok with it. Sure, you AVS folks will bicker and whine for weeks with no end. But the reality is, a HUGE percentage of people don't have the equipment to appreciate 1080P, and even those that do can't tell the difference.


The big difference with 1080p has to do with distance from screen and size of screen. jutter is the number 1 reason to have 1080p. Oh and so you can put it in your signature on AVS as well.:)

Nope. 27.9 GB windows speak vs. 26.3. so it wold be 1.6 GB. So maybe it wouldn't fit but like someone said if they knocked the DD+ to 640k and moved the HD trailers to the second disc, It think it would have fit.
Yes, that's pretty close. Here's the actual number of bytes consumed on the main disc:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers3.JPG

And a list of all the files in the HVDVD_TS folder:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers4.JPG

am i the only one still watching HD with stereo speakers? (in apartment, no room)

am i the only one still watching HD with stereo speakers? (in apartment, no room)

yes I believe so......cuz HD without surround sound is like honey without sweetness ;)

+shipping, correct?

I picked the free shipping. Longer delivery time, but I can wait

am i the only one still watching HD with stereo speakers? (in apartment, no room)

I'm using a 3.1 computer surround sound system :)
It is digital, connected via optical. decodes Dolby Digital 5.1 only. using 3 little speakers, and a subwoofer that's ok. I don't have room to put up satellites :) I sometimes make it output stereo so I don't miss any audio that's going on in the rear.

wow, this disc is great, the pq is awesome, AQ is fantastic. great extras. I only had a half hour to skip through the flick before I had classes. best buy had the HD-DVD at the entrance of the store :)

WOW!!! This is my new reference disk....great video and audio....just awesome...

am i the only one still watching HD with stereo speakers? (in apartment, no room)

I've picked these up for night viewings. Sony MDR DS1000 headphones, does the trick for 5.1 headphones. They sound pretty good and does a great job of separating channels. I used to play Gears of War alot during late nights and could pin point the enemies easily.

http://images.jr.com/productimages/SONMDRDS1000.PNG?CELL=380,380&QLT=67&FTR=3&BGCOLOR=FFFFFF&CVT=jpeg

Just watched it this morning. I thought it looked good, but not "gee whiz, this is the best ever" good.

I was surprised how little the surround speakers were used. I kept turning them up. Interestingly, when the "Iron Man" trailer played the surround speakers "came alive".

My first time seeing the movie. I thought the many sorry attempts at humor took away from the movie. John Turturro's character was just ridiculous.

^Thats strange. My surrounds are very active throughout the movie.

Just watched it this morning. I thought it looked good, but not "gee whiz, this is the best ever" good.

I was surprised how little the surround speakers were used. I kept turning them up. Interestingly, when the "Iron Man" trailer played the surround speakers "came alive".

My first time seeing the movie. I thought the many sorry attempts at humor took away from the movie. John Turturro's character was just ridiculous.


Huh? Were your rears plugged in? This movie has some of the most aggressive surround sound I have ever heard.

Im a neutral supporter but I only have one thing to say to the Blu Spec-trolls:

PIEHOLE!:p (which is a nice way of saying shut-up)

Go away unless you're here to talk about this most massive HD DVD release and how awesome it is.

I own many titles like Hot Fuzz, King Kong, Alexander F/C etc. but let me say.

The PQ on this disc is out of this world. The best i've seen so far on my setup. It's my new reference disc.

If you have HD-DVD, this is a must have. Regardless of if you like the movie.. just put it in and prepare to sit with your mouth open and eyes bugged out of your head.

Just finished watching....Just amazing. Absolutely amazing. The DD+ track just rocks plain and simple. New reference for video and audio!! This one will make you smile from beginning to end!! God bless you Paramount!! :D

Let's get something straight here. There might be a small amount of legitimate discourse on this subject, but the majority of complaints are from Blu-ray supporters who seek to politicize this issue i. e. using it as an argument for Blu-ray "superiority". Lending these political statements creedence by saying the lossless track should be included just to keep them quiet in fact legitimizes these unfounded complaints and empowers the authors to continue their attacks.

How the hell are the complaints unfounded? An action movie of this magnitude should have a lossless audio track. Case closed.

How the hell are the complaints unfounded? An action movie of this magnitude should have a lossless audio track. Case closed.
Nice I am so glad some one with the power to end this debate finally came by and said case close. I mean who needs to actually discuss both the theory and the in practice execution of these two great technologies when we have Aman37 the great here to tell us when this debate should have ended.

I picked this up at walmart for $29 which seems to be the norm around here. When I get off work at 4pm ill be watching it.

I might get planet terror. But I was a little disapontied in death proof.

Norm??? The norm now is to head down to your friendly CC and get in on the buy one get one free deal. Got mine for $14.99. Check the stickey my friends if you haven't already. Just a friendly PSA not a hijack....

Just finished watching....Just amazing. Absolutely amazing. The DD+ track just rocks plain and simple. New reference for video and audio!! This one will make you smile from beginning to end!! God bless you Paramount!! :D

My sentiments exactly. This movie ROCKS. Thats why it hasnt left my player since Sat and ive watched it about 6 times already :D

Just bought my copy at Bestbuy, watched some scenes just to test it out. AMAZING transfer and sound! Definitely a must have. Today is a good day to own an HD-DVD!

Mine was just delivered from Amazon! Will be watching tonight!

When i saw this movie this summer, i thought it was just "ok", but i knew it was going to be an HD-DVD must have. So off to BestBuy i went packing a rewards coupon. Let me tell you it looked like christmas eve in there. (5th Ave in NYC). Not all the crowd was for this movie but i can tell you the workers were literally re-stocking the shelves every couple of minutes. They'd put 20 up and the crowds would grab them in 5 minutes. Crazy. Oh well i'll be watching it tonight.

Nice I am so glad some one with the power to end this debate finally came by and said case close. I mean who needs to actually discuss both the theory and the in practice execution of these two great technologies when we have Amon37 the great here to tell us when this debate should have ended.

Thanks, I thought someone would see it my way. I'm I could close this discussion out and let everyone get back to enjoying transformers. :cool:

At the 1:52:39 mark, during the shot on the "Rhonda's Pawn & Loan Center" sign, does anyone see a 1 frame glitch in the movie?

I'm using an XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive.

am i the only one still watching HD with stereo speakers? (in apartment, no room)

Because of finances I have been forced to sell off my 5.1 Paradigm Monitor surround system. To replace them I have build three DIY bookshelf speakers, which I then just replaced with three identical tower speakers using all the parts from bookshelves. SO as it stands right now I am only using a 3 speaker front soundstage. I will be working on 2 surrounds next and then possibly a small subwoofer. I have had a 5.1 system for 10 years and know what I am missing out on, but once I have my DIY setup complete it will be very sweet.

That very well may be true -- but the question stands, why not include a TrueHD track?

Have you ever seen a women that was 30 look like she was early twenties. Or a women in her early twenties look 35?

It is not the spec that matters it is the result. I dont care how they did it DD+ or True HD... means nothing... I only care is it a thing of beauty. Especially is it a thing of extreme beauty.

99% precent us of have rooms with some level of acoustic problems, less than perfect calibrations, less than reference quality equipment.. all this has far more effect on the quality of the experience than lossless vs. lossy.

Quesion is does she look anywhere near as good in the morning as she did in the bar the night before? If the answer is yes than what are you worried about?

Have you ever seen a women that was 30 look like she was early twenties. Or a women in her early twenties look 35?

It is not the spec that matters it is the result. I dont care how they did it DD+ or True HD... means nothing... I only care is is a thing of beauty. Especially is it a thing of extreme beauty.

99% precent of have rooms with some level of acoustic problems, less than perfect calibrations, less than reference quality equipment.. all this has far more effect on the quality of the experience than lossless vs. lossy.

Quesion is does she look anywhere near as good in the morning as she did in the bar the night before? If the answer is yes than what are you worried about?

nice answer!

Oh, in a sense, I agree -- those people who skip out on this title just because it lacks a lossless tracks seems a bit silly to me. But that's me. And it may be the best HD DVD presentation ever. And it may be a format seller. And I have no doubts at all that it has rocking audio.

None of that changes the fact that IF they could have provided a lossless track, why didn't they?

What difference does it make why they didn't include a lossless track? So what if the undisclosed reason is they did not have room for it wth the particular arrangements of features? Is that what you want to hear? If so, so what? Is anybody hiding the fact that an HD30 has less capacity than a BD50?

This is not about lossy versus lossless.. this an agenda driven argument to say my format is better than yours. If only Transformers were on BD it would be superior because they would have more room to work with.

Who the hell knows why they (Dreamworks) made any of the thousands of decisions they made during the process. The end result is what is, and by all accounts it is spectacular. This whole argument is academic. They did a splendid job and it does not seem to anyone who has seen the HD DVD that it suffers in any way from the ingredients used or the final presentation. In fact people all over are saying it is reference state of the art presentation on HDM!

Im a neutral supporter but I only have one thing to say to the Blu Spec-trolls:

PIEHOLE!:p (which is a nice way of saying shut-up)

Go away unless you're here to talk about this most massive HD DVD release and how awesome it is.

Are you talking to me?

It's a review thread, I gave my review.

http://firingsquad.com/features/transformers_hd_dvd_review

The video quality is spot on. There is a lot of grain in some of the evening scenes, but that's related to the Kodak film that they used for the movie.

It is not the spec that matters it is the result. I dont care how they did it DD+ or True HD... means nothing... I only care is it a thing of beauty. Especially is it a thing of extreme beauty.

99% precent us of have rooms with some level of acoustic problems, less than perfect calibrations, less than reference quality equipment.. all this has far more effect on the quality of the experience than lossless vs. lossy.


first of all, i could care less if a track is lossless or lossy as long as it sounds good. BUT, gtgray's logic is flawed. Yes, 99% of us are watching movies in less than perfect rooms. That will affect the sound. But, you're watching everything in that same room, whether it's a movie with lossless or lossy sound. That same room degradation exists in both cases, so in the end, the soundtrack with a better encode will sound better in that degraded room, since the sound put out by the speakers was closer to reference before the room messed it up. In other words, if you start with a bad source and play it in a bad room, it'll sound worse than taking a good source and playing it in the same bad room. The fact that we're using less than perfect rooms makes it MORE important that the source audio be as close to reference as possible.

Having said that, 1.5 mbps DD+ can sound VERY nice. I'm sure Transformers will shake my floor just fine.

All I have to say is that about 1:55 in, when one of them does a flip while firing his guns into the ground..... MY GOD! I don't think I've EVER heard my sub hit that low. That is the strongest bass (from EMP blast) in the movie. If you wanna test your sub, hit that scene.

When ahead and picked it up today just cause I wanted to see Megan Fox in HD:D

I own many titles like Hot Fuzz, King Kong, Alexander F/C etc. but let me say.

The PQ on this disc is out of this world. The best i've seen so far on my setup. It's my new reference disc.

If you have HD-DVD, this is a must have. Regardless of if you like the movie.. just put it in and prepare to sit with your mouth open and eyes bugged out of your head.


Agree with you on this one the pq is out of this world...wow across the whole movie..simply jaw dropping.

All I have to say is that about 1:55 in, when one of them does a flip while firing his guns into the ground..... MY GOD! I don't think I've EVER heard my sub hit that low. That is the strongest bass (from EMP blast) in the movie. If you wanna test your sub, hit that scene.

WARNING: You might want to be careful with that. Many years ago a CD came out that had the 1812 overture on it. At the end they used real canons and recorded them. There was a big warning lable on the disk that warned about the "Digital" canons. This disk was known to break speakers, especially the high end ones. At the time, it was a reference disk. :eek:

All I have to say is that about 1:55 in, when one of them does a flip while firing his guns into the ground..... MY GOD! I don't think I've EVER heard my sub hit that low. That is the strongest bass (from EMP blast) in the movie. If you wanna test your sub, hit that scene.

My only worry is if it will blow my sub and my butt-kickers. I heard that part in the theater and it was the lowest and most intense sub-woofer sound I have ever heard. It just may be too good.

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive from amazon.com.

I just got this on HD-DVD and the sound is amazing, I thought. I was getting blown away from the powerful base and overall explosive 5.1! The PQ was very good for the most part. But I was getting a lot of those jagged edges on some images that I don't usually get from great HD discs (sure didn't have any of those from my HD-DVD of Troy: Director's Cut).

I just demoed "Transformers" for a co-worker and his wife in my mini HT. All they could say was, "WOW, that was incredible." :D they were both impressed by the PQ, and AQ of the movie, as was I, wow, just awsome stuff.

I just got this on HD-DVD and the sound is amazing, I thought. I was getting blown away from the powerful base and overall explosive 5.1! The PQ was very good for the most part. But I was getting a lot of those jagged edges on some images that I don't usually get from great HD discs (sure didn't have any of those from my HD-DVD of Troy: Director's Cut).



Jaggy wha? You sure your watching the same movie?

Does anybody know why they went with MPEG4AVC instead of VC1? I don't think they have anything against Microsoft, because the picture in picture ("HUD") was encoded with VC1. The picture quality was excellent, but I couldn't help thinking it could have been even a hair better in VC1. I rented several of the Discovery Atlas movies, most were in VC1, but one was in MPEG4 for some odd reason and I could tell right away. If anybody has a link explaining the technical differences between the two formats I would appreciate it.

My guess, but this is merely a guess, is that they probably did it because of the color palette. I've heard that oranges (eg:sunrise glows) are harder to compress. Considering the consistent change from that sunrise orange and the harsh brights in a lot of scenes, perhaps they were simply getting better results from the MPEG4. Not that it matters, it looks spectacular.

I just demoed "Transformers" for a co-worker and his wife in my mini HT. All they could say was, "WOW, that was incredible." :D they were both impressed by the PQ, and AQ of the movie, as was I, wow, just awsome stuff.

This single title will help to sell the HD-DVD format for this very reason. When I start showing my friends this film in it's high definition glory they will likely be rushing out for a player and disc very quickly.

I've already converted 2 friends simply with Planet Earth.

The thing that sold DVD was word of mouth. As people were exposed to it, they bought in when the price was right. The same will happen here.

This title is very big. I am positive it'll be much much bigger to HDM than 300 was.

WOW!!! This is my new reference disk....great video and audio....just awesome...

This was just awesome! My 12" sub has never had a workout like this before in a movie! Honestly, this was just awesome.

Fact is they did say it, like it or not, from a trusted source and many others in attendance. We all know Paramount made its decision to go HD DVD only based on money, and many directors and the other movie studio's did not like this anti-consumer move. What Paramount should have said at the "Transformers' media event with Paramount" was that because they chose to add In movie experience Picture in picture, that they ran out of bandwidth/bitrate to include TrueHD on Transformers. This would have been more accurate since the film could have had lossless audio and the same video had they not had any IME/PIP included on the first disc. The same thing happened with the King Kong decision. We shall see how the future unfolds with future releases from Paramount.

The Matrix movies all have TrueHD and IME, superb PQ and all come in well under 30 GB. Matrix Reloaded has a similar running time as transformers and only took up 20 GB. It's not a limitation of HD DVD. And the audio is getting perfect scores everywhere, that's what really matters. So suck it up and buy the HD DVD!

the only "grainy" parts i noticed was the part where he went back home and his parents came up to see what he was doing, i'm not sure if it was the color of the walls or what but i thought something was wrong with my tv through that scene until it started looking awesome again...but hey 10 minutes of grainy-ness can't make me not love this movie's visuals...the plot was meh (first time i've seen it was today) but i didn't expect anything brain-stimulating and there was more laughs then i thought there'd be so overall it was a great movie...and the sounds when the cars transform is amazing 0_0

EGGGGGZELENT.

Posted this at another forum, so I will just copy and paste what I said.

Transformers, transfer is 99.9% perfect IMO.:thumb
Picture quality is stunning (crytal clear, very sharp), audio is as well excellent.

Ever so slight grain in a few dark scenes, and skin tones are a tad pumped up.
However, I do recall the SAME exact colors when I saw this in the theater, so it looks to be an exact match of the master.

From my understanding the SD version, people are saying it has some macroblocking.
I will say on the HD DVD version, there is absolutely NO macroblocking.


Was well worth the wait, and IMHO could certainly be a reason for BD (only) fans to go format neutral.:Beer

http://www.3dgameman.com/forums/showpost.php?p=609490&postcount=40

OK, OK ...

So like all the reviews said, this thing's AQ and PQ is STELLAR. The audio/ effects truly work your setup. Lossless, blah, blah, blah >>> It's UNREAL, OK?

But ... the thing that just blew my mind was the totally FLIPPIN' cool extra features. I mean Blu-Boyz have absolutely NO CLUE what they are missing out on. NOt only was the stuff popping up on the screen totally cool, but the bubbles of information was spot-on and provided a whole new way of watching this film.

This thing is a must own and PS3, err..., Blu-Ray people are just SOL unless they go red. BD-J >>> In someone's lifetime, then they have to get people to actual want to encode crap >>> BR just got trounced. Don't even come in here refuting until you actually see what you DON'T have.

Anyone else download the web content? Showing GPS, etc...

The LFE channel on the soundtrack seems to be almost non-existent.

The LFE channel on the soundtrack seems to be almost non-existent.

Check your equipment. You are mistaken.

The LFE channel on the soundtrack seems to be almost non-existent.
Are you joking?
What sub do you have?

This is the best audio and visual experience on the High Definition medium in existence today. I am 110% satisfied.

Check your equipment. You are mistaken.

I have a Paradigm Servo 15 which can easily shake my entire house...the LFE channel on this disk is way low.

Check your equipment. You are mistaken.
Yeah, I checked his bio, and it does say a Paradigm sub.
So, I would have to agree with Kilgore, check your settings.

Transformers sucks... because it makes my subwoofer sound so wimpy! I get very little bass in all the 20Hz scenes. I need a new sub, booooo :(

I have a Paradigm Servo 15 which can easily shake my entire house...the LFE channel on this disk is way low.
Well your bio is wrong, Paradigm PW-2200.
Anyways, I have a single VTF3-MK2, and the bass is very prevalent.

Transformers sucks... because it makes my subwoofer sound so wimpy! I get very little bass in all the 20Hz scenes. I need a new sub, booooo :(

Very funny sarcasm.:D

My mini-review:

Transformers

Video (MPEG-4 AVC): 9.7/10
Audio (Dolby Plus 1.5MBps): 10/10

The transfer might have fleeting instances of posterization and noise in one or two scenes, but it's amazing how it's always up for anything thrown its way. Of course, the film's appearance is aided by extensive computer tweaking. Though the film very solemnly seems hampered in terms of detail from the adjustments. Colors always seem to pop and there quite a few moments you get stuck being wowed by the transfer instead of the film. It's really one of the very best transfers on HD DVD and is an excellent visual showcase for what the format is capable of. The Dolby Plus track is unassuming yet solid for the majority of the film...until the climatic city battle. It's there when the quality of the track really shines. Buildings explode, metal clashes, bullets whiz, and other things explode some more with excellent clarity and insane surround use. The bass response is also awesome with several moments of such extreme rumbling walls rattle. It's definitely one that will give your system a workout. Can't imagine settling for less after seeing and hearing the film this way.

I have a Paradigm Servo 15 which can easily shake my entire house...the LFE channel on this disk is way low.

I had the same experience with my Def Tech Supercube I.

The (paused-otherwise judder ensues) video on my DLP looks just like it did on the big screen at the megaplex. That's pretty amazing.

WTF happened to zoom? I appreciate the bookmarks, but they didn't enable zoom. As usual, stop-resume is also not enabled. It's been a year. Studios really need to encode stop-resume.

Now, I will let everyone go back to complaining about how the miniscule differences of TrueHD and DD+ ruin the experience for the 95% of HD-DVD owners that don't even have their HD-DVD players connected to AV receivers.

The Movie Transformers is without a doubt, simply the very best I've seen or heard on HDM Period! The Audio is THUNDEROUS in my theater and the video PQ is 10 out of 10. This movie is the reason I've invested thousands and thousands of dollars in my home theater! My family and I watched this tonight and they are true believers in HDM now! At the end of the movie everyone actually applauded! My wife HATES action type movies and even she was Highly impressed with its presentation. When I asked her for her opinion her exact words were "Now I see why you obsess with this room, That was AWESOME!" The bar is set VERY VERY high now lol. Bravo Paramount ... Bravo!!!

My mini-review:

Transformers

Video (MPEG-4 AVC): 9.7/10
Audio (Dolby Plus 1.5MBps): 10/10

The transfer might have fleeting instances of posterization and noise in one or two scenes..

That isn't the "transfer", it's the movie.

is this a scope movie or 16x9?

To all BD supporters, I challenge you to check out Transformers both the movie and the extras and then say there is a BD title that exceeds this....overall this IS the definitive HD disk today. Do yourself a favor. Really.

I watched this movie in a DLP cinema and I feel that this transfer provides a more detailed presentation in most of the scenes I watched. By that I mean that every scene met or exceeded the quality I experienced at the DLP cinema presentation (although my audio system is lacking in comparison :) ).

I have one word to discribe this phenomenon that my children and I just witnessed tonight....





WOW.:eek: :eek:

Transformers ROCKS!!!!!

just finished watching this. The quality is freakin' amazing! Sound and video are TOP notch

WOW! I just finished watching this movie for the second time today :eek::eek: and I'm still amazed at how good this movie looks and sounds!! I'm afraid my door bell is gonna ring with the cops telling me I gotta get the hell out of here. Unbelievable movie and to be honest it love it more and more every time I watch it.

The bad thing is every other action movie I watch now will always disappoint me, I can't see ANY movie coming even close to what I just experienced.

Is there anyway we can possible get sales numbers for this disk??

I would really like to know how this performed selling wise?

OMG!!!!!!!!!

It is incredible and the sound is the best I have ever heard. It destroys the best DTHD and PCM YTD! I have been saying for the last year that DD+ can rival anything out there. The audio on this HD-DVD is flat out the killer application for HDM. WOW!!!!:)

As for the video I am blown away but at the same time a little dissapointed. It is by far the best AVC coded movie ever released (sorry BR fanboys) but it has some issues but I will debate those later.

During the battle with the helicopter in the beggining, it pegged my bit meter at 36.0 mbps which is on par for AVC. That means it is 34.5 is for video and 1.5 for audio (if the sound track is using all the bits for DD+).

AVC is evolving and will no doubt begin to destroy the capabilities of VC-1.

I am simple blown away by this movie! Cheers Paramount/Dreamworks, Michael Bay and Steven Spielberg.

Incredible.

I'd love to review it for you guys but I think I got a bum disc. :(

Just finished watching and SERIOUSLY thinking about watching it again. HOLY CRAP how awesome it is. It is simply the best film i've ever seen in my home. Sound is amazing and PQ is even better.

At 1:55 i almost spilled my beer. HOLY GAWD that bass was amazing. Let it play five or six times before i got passed it lol!

Definately recommended!

I picked her up on the way home, incase it sells out... don't have time to watch it until the weekend but I quickly watched the scene where they are in the desert and get attacked... OMG, looks incredible. Picture is amazing to say the least...

Didn't really pay attention to the audio, but sounds like I will be in for quite the Saturday evening with this flick....

I hope to see this one demo'ing at retailers this winter... should definately help to spur some more HD players sales.

Thoroughly enjoyed this movie tonight. Best HDM movie yet in terms of PQ and AQ. Just wayyyyyyyyy too much fun to watch. Can't say enough about the PQ and AQ.

Bravo Paramount, Bravo and Encore!!

As for the video I am blown away but at the same time a little dissapointed. It is by far the best AVC coded movie ever released (sorry BR fanboys)
There's at leas a handful of BD AVCs that best this. Not to mention BHDs MPEG2.



AVC is evolving and will no doubt begin to destroy the capabilities of VC-1.


This is why the BD guys have been complaining about warner releasing VC1 titles on BD.

Probably the best sounding disc ever. But at louder levels Megan Fox's voice and Jon Voight's sound a little 'compressed'. Weird. everthing else sounded perfect.
Better than Star Wars(unless the GL lets the lightsaber loose in DTSMA, even then the trannies might sound better.)

But yeah this is the HD Disc.

ok so 25 pages of quality reviews. Yes it is way up there for pq and aq. A reference disk for sure.

but is no one going to say it's a pretty cheesy movie? Quality aside, I feel dumber for having watched it.

The new camaro is tits though, Chevy will sell a lot of units with this kinda promotion.

but is no one going to say it's a pretty cheesy movie? Quality aside, I feel dumber for having watched it.

It's a movie based on a toy line directed by Michael Bay.

If that doen't say 'turn of brain before watching' nothing will.

ok so 25 pages of quality reviews. Yes it is way up there for pq and aq. A reference disk for sure.

but is no one going to say it's a pretty cheesy movie? Quality aside, I feel dumber for having watched it.

I actually enjoyed watching transformers more than any movie based on Shakespeare's work. :)

ok so 25 pages of quality reviews. Yes it is way up there for pq and aq. A reference disk for sure.

but is no one going to say it's a pretty cheesy movie? Quality aside, I feel dumber for having watched it.

I can see why some people call it cheesy but at the same time it's fun and one hell of a ride. Even though Michael Bay is a freak I think this movie was perfect for him and he was perfect for the movie. I think because it was a Bay flick thats what made it so exciting and ground breaking. If you watch the special features on disc 2 theres a part where they mentioned they didn't even wanna show Bay the original script because it was to childish for him and they knew he'd drop the project right then and there.

All I'm saying is any Bay flick might leave you feeling kinda goofy but I have to admit all his stuff are intense and hands on. This is THE movie everyone DO NOT PASS UP!!

Buy an HD DVD player if you have to! Trust me it's well worth it! ;)

It's a movie based on a toy line directed by Michael Bay.

If that doen't say 'turn of brain before watching' nothing will.Nice post.:D

Seriously though, if you enjoyed the toys as a kid, it's tough not to enjoy the movie for what it is...a fun summer blockbuster, with some amazing sfx.

It's a movie based on a toy line directed by Michael Bay.

If that doen't say 'turn of brain before watching' nothing will.

So true... it is what it is. A movie about things that change into robots. I pretty much sailed through it becuase i was a huge TF fan as a kid.. still great post though lol!

Fact is they did say it, like it or not, from a trusted source and many others in attendance. We all know Paramount made its decision to go HD DVD only based on money, and many directors and the other movie studio's did not like this anti-consumer move. What Paramount should have said at the "Transformers' media event with Paramount" was that because they chose to add In movie experience Picture in picture, that they ran out of bandwidth/bitrate to include TrueHD on Transformers. This would have been more accurate since the film could have had lossless audio and the same video had they not had any IME/PIP included on the first disc. The same thing happened with the King Kong decision. We shall see how the future unfolds with future releases from Paramount.

I don't know if you have an Hd-dvd player yet but if you don't , go out and drop $300.00 and get one with Transformers and you can stop this silly lossless audio, bandwidth, bitrate, storage space, hardcoat, IME/PIP, money, anti-consumer ******** and just ENJOY the best HDM currentlly has to offer. Ok

I have briefly went through some scenes today and I am very Impressed. One of my favorite HD movies is Ultraviolet on BD. I am starting to see a difference in the encodes on my set up. IMO, as good as VC1 is AVC is not far from it and IMO looks more film like...My ed a3-300 was very punchy in the desert scene and the freway scene. I cannot watch any more as my son's movie night is friday and we will sit down and watch it on the 100" Optoma HD70. Can anyone give any specific scene where the bass goes to 20hz or below and a timestamp would be appreciated, thanks.

I also believe that format nuetral is the way to go for now although I havent purchased a BD since the Lookout.

Well your bio is wrong, Paradigm PW-2200.
Anyways, I have a single VTF3-MK2, and the bass is very prevalent.

Honestly if there's something in my bio it's way out of date since I haven't touched it since I registered. Anyway, turning the LFE channel up about 4 dBs gets decent bass, but nothing that really rumbles. I was underwhelmed during the opening base attack scene which I was expecting to be blown away by as it sounded tremendous in the theater.

There's at leas a handful of BD AVCs that best this. Not to mention BHDs MPEG2.


Please name specific titles and no animation please.