Woot, this now my new wallpaper..:D:D
Well, hopefully Amazon ships mine out on the 15th.:o

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h127/brian32672/dfgdfg.jpg

No matter how hot they are, someone is tired of there ****!!!
:D

Fact is they did say it, like it or not, from a trusted source and many others in attendance. We all know Paramount made its decision to go HD DVD only based on money, and many directors and the other movie studio's did not like this anti-consumer move. What Paramount should have said at the "Transformers' media event with Paramount" was that because they chose to add In movie experience Picture in picture, that they ran out of bandwidth/bitrate to include TrueHD on Transformers. This would have been more accurate since the film could have had lossless audio and the same video had they not had any IME/PIP included on the first disc. The same thing happened with the King Kong decision. We shall see how the future unfolds with future releases from Paramount.


Please don't lump us all in with your ignorant statements. Some of us actually have a little business savy and understand why Paramount did what they did. Obviously you do not. So keep your "we" statements to yourself.

No matter how hot they are, someone is tired of there ****!!!
:D

http://www.teenidols4you.com/thumb/Actors/brianagreen/green099.jpg

This HD DVD is full of grain and I love it. Exactly the way I remember it in the theater. Two fins way up.

Supermans I thought Paramount would have rolled out the red carpet with every sound format avalible. Regardless it still looked and sounded good, but the same people not bitching about the sound on this movie are the same people that have been bitching about the lack of it on Blu-Ray...

Honestly if there's something in my bio it's way out of date since I haven't touched it since I registered. Anyway, turning the LFE channel up about 4 dBs gets decent bass, but nothing that really rumbles. I was underwhelmed during the opening base attack scene which I was expecting to be blown away by as it sounded tremendous in the theater.

Hmmm strange. I get the same thing but I was suspecting my sub isn't up to the task and not the disc.

I don't know if you have an Hd-dvd player yet but if you don't , go out and drop $300.00 and get one with Transformers and you can stop this silly lossless audio, bandwidth, bitrate, storage space, hardcoat, IME/PIP, money, anti-consumer ******** and just ENJOY the best HDM currentlly has to offer. Ok

Well said. :)

I loved the film.... And the downloadable widget thing was very sweet..... Going to have to rewatch it with that on tomorrow. (I wanted the first viewing to be just like the theater). Havent even looked at the extras disc yet.

Just finished watching Transformers..........What an AMAZING disc! Exactly what I was hoping for!

I watched this tonight, and I liked the movie quite a bit. Fun stuff. Of course the picture and sound were both top notch, it's now my new reference disc. I can't imagine anyone having ANYTHING negative to say about the DD+ soundtrack. It friggin' rocked!

Heres some screencaps from my Sammy 61" DLP. Enjoy!


http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000179ei6.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000180qq3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000181ku8.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000184qt5.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000185ze0.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000186ym4.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000189pb1.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000190zv7.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000187hf1.jpg

I watched Transformers tonight on my ISF calibrated Pioneer Elite Pro-150FD plasma (ISFed this morning lol). I have the XA2 and run the output at 1080p/24 with no audio sync issues (my display does a 3:3 pull-down and displays at 72hz). Anyway imo the PQ if off the scales and the audio had my house shaking. I plan on another viewing tomorrow night at a slightly higher volume level. :D

Wow, what an amazing experience. Good work Paramount. Audio/Video. You name it! They got it down. Reference disc by far.

can you get DD+ with just a toslink connection?

Just got done watching it on my HD-A35.

DD+ is a let down. They should have used DTS-HD, even if it's a core only, it'll still sound way better than DD.

DTS>DD on lossy formats for me.

PQ was inconsistent with quality. Too many scene with lots of grain.

Hello,
Great movie.
I am wondering if this is a dual-layer disc. Is it changing from one layer to the next at 11 minutes and 53 seconds? My disc pauses for about 2 secs and then continues. Has anyone else noticed this, or is my disc defective and I need to exchange it?

Thanks,
J.

Hello,
Great movie.
I am wondering if this is a dual-layer disc. Is it changing from one layer to the next at 11 minutes and 53 seconds? My disc pauses for about 2 secs and then continues. Has anyone else noticed this, or is my disc defective and I need to exchange it?

Thanks,
J.

Yes, its is an HD-30.....of course it is a dual-layer disc. 99% of new releases are.

:DWOW, the battle at the end and the sand battle are two of the best HD experiences I have ever had, just absolutly absurd how much detail is present and how sharp the picture remains throughout, and the apreciation for the CGI in these scenes is just rediculous, ILM is absolutly amazing at what they do, it's just nutz. This disc just went to number 1 on my demo list, and to think, $15 at Cicuit City :D

I don't know if you have an Hd-dvd player yet but if you don't , go out and drop $300.00 and get one with Transformers and you can stop this silly lossless audio, bandwidth, bitrate, storage space, hardcoat, IME/PIP, money, anti-consumer ******** and just ENJOY the best HDM currentlly has to offer. Ok

It's not the best they have to offer, that's the point. Everyone here is getting all excited when a movie includes True HD, and now all of a sudden DD+ is just as good because we supposedly can't tell the difference between the two? Then what are you, horny for logos? Sure, it's a good looking and great sounding movie, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's NOT the best they have to offer.

It looks like you're all going with The Look And Sound of Good Enough :confused:

:This disc just went to number 1 on my demo list, and to think, $15 at Cicuit City :D

+1

That sand battle scene BLEW ME AWAY, mouth was hanging open, didn't even realize it, my gf pointed it out to me, "umm, okay, you're not actually drooling are you?" :D

Mitch, get over it. You HAVE NOT seen the movie. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, NOT the recipe!

This IS THE definitive HDM title released so far! Check it out and then come back. Please don't harp on a pointless point.....the movie is so mindblowingly good that even YOU will take your hat off to Paramount for what they have done here :)

Hello,
Great movie.
I am wondering if this is a dual-layer disc. Is it changing from one layer to the next at 11 minutes and 53 seconds? My disc pauses for about 2 secs and then continues. Has anyone else noticed this, or is my disc defective and I need to exchange it?

Thanks,
J.

There should be no visible layer change on either HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs.

Simply put, this movie is a friggin' blast on HD!
Thanks Paramount!

Absolutely Fantastic Movie! Best film from either format...

Dvd planet sold out--hope my order went thru ok--have the AX2 coming next week and dying to see both--Also dvd empire has hd-dvd higher sales than bluray this week so far

Anyone else a little disappointed with the with PQ during dark scenes? Particularly when the autobots first meet sam. All daytime scenes look amazing, I just thought the grain was a bit excess in dark scenes (almost reminded me of Miami Vice).
Just for the record, I actually enjoy film grain (I preferred the grain in 300 and Black Snake Moan). I am certainly not bashing the overall quality of the TF disc, I just wanted to see if others felt the same.

^It doesnt bother me. The grain was present at the DLP theater when I saw it (twice). It matches the theatrical presentation perfectly, but to me it looks even better.

PQ was inconsistent with quality. Too many scene with lots of grain.


this was JUST like it was filmed in the theater...so they succeeded here.

Dear God let's hope this doesn't go down the same road of the 300 quality debates.

There should be no visible layer change on either HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs.

Thank you for responding John!
It's back to the store with this copy.

I was a little disappointed simply because the reviews had me expecting more. Overall it's a great release and a must own, but I wonder if most of these reviews are skewed because of the reviewers love for the content and less for the technical merits of the release.

this was JUST like it was filmed in the theater...so they succeeded here.

Dear God let's hope this doesn't go down the same road of the 300 quality debates.

I'm gonna have to agree that the PQ was inconsistant. Again, I'm not saying that I hate grain (I actually prefer it in most cases), but the excessive grain in "some" of the nighttime shots seemed to have an effect on the PQ.

Again, the grain in 300 was a nice touch.

On a side note: The AQ is simply amazing, better than any of the TrueHD discs that I own.

There is grain alright (at times), its obviously intentional, but in no way does it reach the level\effect they used in 300 (along with the crushing colors, etc) - this was far more subtle use of the 'intentional grain look' by comparison - FWIW, I much prefer the look of this movie over 300.

Transformers is hands down the NEW best HiDef disc purchase and experience I've had to date - Paramount DELIVERED, period!! =)

Jaggy wha? You sure your watching the same movie?
Oh yeah, I was definitely getting some jagged action on some scenes. None of the close-ups...nor any of the CGI stuff (at least not the robots). But during some long shots of the Hoover Dam, etc. I didn't really have a problem with the grain.

:D Awesome fun flick! I had not seen it in the theatres so this was my first viewing and I loved it. PQ is good overall and stunning at times, AQ? I'll eat crow, one of if not the best sounding discs I have heard.:D:D:D From the opening title sceens with the robotic sounds and throughout this was very impressive. Detail, surround enevelope and lfe had me constantly grinning. Definatly my new reference disc!:D

Not that I think that the transfer is going to be anything but spectacular, but the review became worthless as soon as it described the "film grain" in a movie that was shot entirely digital. I know that artificial grain can be added (300), but I noticed none of this in the theater.

Film negative format (mm/video inches)
35 mm (Kodak Vision2 250D 5205, Vision2 500T 5218)


Cinematographic process
Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format)
Panavision (anamorphic) (source format)
Super 35 (source format)


Printed film format
35 mm (anamorphic) (Kodak Vision 2383)


Aspect ratio
2.35 : 1

Has this review been posted yet?

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30988

If not, check it out as it's a very good read.

The movie definetely contained grain and I assume much of it is to mask the CGI in the film. I would guess this is why Paramount choose to use MPEG-4 over VC-1 which is said to better portray films with a lot of grain.

Has this review been posted yet?

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30988

If not, check it out as it's a very good read.

Great article and from someone that actually viewed it with the films director and reviewed the HD DVD as a perfect 5 for PQ, perfect 5 for AQ and a perfect 5 for extras. I think this goes to show that it is a transparent represenatation of the actual movie.

I personally like film grain, I don't want every movie looking like the Today Show or something. It's a part of the art IMO... This has nothing to do with Transformers just in general when discussing HDM transfers.

Hiya all, just watched it last night and was very impressed. I was wondering about some "light" artifacts though, wether its my PJ or A2 a disc problem or normal? In some dark scenes where there are bright lights I sometimes get a blue line of light almost like a refraction of light off the lens going across the scene ( a thin beam of blue light), is this normal or just my setup, its a Sanyo Z5 ( ISF"d), Da-Lite Cinemavision 1.3 gain 96" screen and HDMI from the A2 with 2.0 firmware. I have only seen this very briefly in a few other movies and ONLY in HD DVD, one was Phantom in one of the scenes in his "dungeon"

Any info would be appreciated.

Gee, sure wish I had this to review or watch even -- I guess I made the mistake of preordering through AMAZON. They inform me that they will ship it out on October 22, then give some tortured explanation involving super-saver shipping.

Hey AMAZON, it is a courtesy, convenience and huge plus TO YOU to have me pre-order -- not a great convenience TO ME. If I had waited till Tuesday to order, I would have had it by Friday -- now I have to wait.

Last time AMAZON.

Help me please...... I just picked up the HD A20. I am having a Transformers showing in my theater tonight. But when I put in the disc, the sound Quality was so bad. very soft. not a lot of imaging.

IS there a setting prefrence I should use wtih my Onkyo 875 and this HDa20 to get the best result?

I have a great system, and my RCVR does awesome Upscaling. I put about 60% stock into sound rather than Picture. I am almost tempted to use the standard DVD in my DVD player to get better sound.

I do have the latest FW update on the player.

I do not want to be a HD basher (but i watched a SD in my BR lastnight) and it sounded 50% better than this on the same level settings.

Sorry i did forget to mention the PQ was AWESOME........ I was very impressed with it. (and the load time was much less than the BR player (by half)

Please help. Should I go buy a diffrent player?

Help me please...... I just picked up the HD A20. I am having a Transformers showing in my theater tonight. But when I put in the disc, the sound Quality was so bad. very soft. not a lot of imaging.

IS there a setting prefrence I should use wtih my Onkyo 875 and this HDa20 to get the best result?

I have a great system, and my RCVR does awesome Upscaling. I put about 60% stock into sound rather than Picture. I am almost tempted to use the standard DVD in my DVD player to get better sound.

I do have the latest FW update on the player.

I do not want to be a HD basher (but i watched a SD in my BR lastnight) and it sounded 50% better than this on the same level settings.

Please help. Should I go buy a diffrent player?

How is your player connected to your receiver?

Help me please...... I just picked up the HD A20. I am having a Transformers showing in my theater tonight. But when I put in the disc, the sound Quality was so bad. very soft. not a lot of imaging.

IS there a setting prefrence I should use wtih my Onkyo 875 and this HDa20 to get the best result?

I have a great system, and my RCVR does awesome Upscaling. I put about 60% stock into sound rather than Picture. I am almost tempted to use the standard DVD in my DVD player to get better sound.

I do have the latest FW update on the player.

I do not want to be a HD basher (but i watched a SD in my BR lastnight) and it sounded 50% better than this on the same level settings.

Sorry i did forget to mention the PQ was AWESOME........ I was very impressed with it. (and the load time was much less than the BR player (by half)

Please help. Should I go buy a diffrent player?

Sorry. but the 24b 1.5Mbps DD+ track on Transformers HD DVD will blow the SD DVD version (or your 16b BD PCM tracks for that matter). Giving you the benefit of the doubt...try increasing the volume and see what that does to the imaging :rolleyes:

I'm confused about the sound, I have my A20 "SPDIF" = Bitstream and "HDMI" = Auto. Are these settings correct for this movie? My receiver says "MULTI CH PCM" or do I need to change something?

Thanks.

Great freaking shots, thanks. :)

Heres some screencaps from my Sammy 61" DLP. Enjoy!


http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000179ei6.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000180qq3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000181ku8.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000184qt5.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000185ze0.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000186ym4.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000189pb1.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000190zv7.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0000187hf1.jpg

How is your player connected to your receiver?

Connected via HDMI1.3a cable to my 1.3 capable receiver (Onkyo 875) it lights up multi channel inputs. But When turned to refrence level (0) the found stage is very muted.

I have my refrence level set at 90db. I can hardly play a SD dvd DTS ont this setting. So i know I am doing something wrong.

Too many scene with lots of grain.

These grain comments are killing me, and they are as rampant as I expected them to be. The film had all of the same grain in the theater. What is on the disk is an accurate representation of what was presented on film. The grain is supposed to be there!!!

Someone commented in another thread in the HDM forum that they would have expected the higher bandwidth of Blu-Ray to have cleaned up the grain a bit if this was put out on Blu-Ray and maximized for its bandwidth. LOL.

Hiya all, just watched it last night and was very impressed. I was wondering about some "light" artifacts though, wether its my PJ or A2 a disc problem or normal? In some dark scenes where there are bright lights I sometimes get a blue line of light almost like a refraction of light off the lens going across the scene ( a thin beam of blue light), is this normal or just my setup, its a Sanyo Z5 ( ISF"d), Da-Lite Cinemavision 1.3 gain 96" screen and HDMI from the A2 with 2.0 firmware. I have only seen this very briefly in a few other movies and ONLY in HD DVD, one was Phantom in one of the scenes in his "dungeon"

Any info would be appreciated.
Much of Transformers was shot in good old fashioned Panavision, which uses anamorphic lenses. That squeezed light you see is merely a side effect of the process. You don't see it as much these days because Super 35 and HD are becoming more common, and they use spherical lenses that are faster and don't create as much distortion. But some filmmakers still prefer the idiosynchratic look of anamorphic, folk like Michael Bay, Matthew Vaughn and Wes Anderson.

Dig out Die Hard if you have it and you'll see some photography in much the same vein as Transformers. On the DVD, John McTiernan (IIRC) recounts that he had calls from the lab processing the film asking him if he knew that there was so much lense flare in the movie (an intentional move on Jan de Bont's part).

But when I put in the disc, the sound Quality was so bad. very soft. not a lot of imaging.
This statement simply baffles me.:D

Having used the same setup for a couple of years now (I'm sorry to say - but it is nice), Transformers is cleary the best sounding disc I've heard. I will note that it did seem to be recorded at a lower level than most other discs I watch on a regular basis. I ran my volume at -15 last night, when most movies never go over -25. It's not harsh at all, very smooth (in a good way), which could lead to the abilitly to increase the volume.

Man - I'm glad to hear that about the grain - thought I was going to have to re-calibrate or something. The movie looks freaking amazing. Glad I went with HD - The sound is just as good. Haven't checked out the web features yet, but should be cool...awesome.

If the grain wasn't there, I would have been pissed.

This statement simply baffles me.:D

Having used the same setup for a couple of years now (I'm sorry to say - but it is nice), Transformers is cleary the best sounding disc I've heard. I will note that it did seem to be recorded at a lower level than most other discs I watch on a regular basis. I ran my volume at -15 last night, when most movies never go over -25. It's not harsh at all, very smooth (in a good way), which could lead to the abilitly to increase the volume.


Im cool with turning up the volume. But I was wondering why I shold have to. I just bought the HDa20 YESTERDAY. so i was wondering what adjustments I should make to maximize my HDa20 experiance

EGGGGGZELENT.

Transformers, transfer is 99.9% perfect IMO.:thumb
Picture quality is stunning (crytal clear, very sharp), audio is as well excellent.

Was well worth the wait, and IMHO could certainly be a reason for BD (only) fans to go format neutral.:Beer


Let me just say this movie was the WHOLE REASON why I built my HT. During construction all I could think about was seeing THIS movi. I was sad to see that it was not coming out on Blue-Ray (have PS3), but went out and bought a HD-DVD player (Xa2) just to play this movie. I bought it yesterday and STILL have not watched it. We have a family movie night with my wife and 3 boys and my brother-inlaw and his daughter in 2 days (Fri night)

I AM GOING OUT OF MY MIND WITH ANTICIPATION, so I am living vicariously through all other AVS Forum members and their reviews until that time...

J

Much of Transformers was shot in good old fashioned Panavision, which uses anamorphic lenses. That squeezed light you see is merely a side effect of the process. You don't see it as much these days because Super 35 and HD are becoming more common, and they use spherical lenses that are faster and don't create as much distortion. But some filmmakers still prefer the idiosynchratic look of anamorphic, folk like Michael Bay, Matthew Vaughn and Wes Anderson.

Dig out Die Hard if you have it and you'll see some photography in much the same vein as Transformers. On the DVD, John McTiernan (IIRC) recounts that he had calls from the lab processing the film asking him if he knew that there was so much lense flare in the movie (an intentional move on Jan de Bont's part).


Geoff D, thank you so much!! I thought it was part of the film but wasn't sure, it even showed up on a few of the credits at the end as a cool blue tinge off a very few names etc.

Thanks again

This statement simply baffles me.:D

Having used the same setup for a couple of years now (I'm sorry to say - but it is nice), Transformers is cleary the best sounding disc I've heard. I will note that it did seem to be recorded at a lower level than most other discs I watch on a regular basis. I ran my volume at -15 last night, when most movies never go over -25. It's not harsh at all, very smooth (in a good way), which could lead to the abilitly to increase the volume.

Same here, had to crank her up to -19 to really get the freight moving but OMG!!!!...the sound is friggin amazing...best ever for me. My PW2200 was thumping the SH*t out of my couch:D

Same here, had to crank her up to -19 to really get the freight moving but OMG!!!!...the sound is friggin amazing...best ever for me. My PW2200 was thumping the SH*t out of my couch:D

Guess i will just crank it up. But that does not explain the NEED to have to do it.

I AM GOING OUT OF MY MIND WITH ANTICIPATION, so I am living vicariously through all other AVS Forum members and their reviews until that time...

J
LOL, yeah I have both BD and HD, you will be pleasantly surprised.

I should have added, that this HD DVD is not recommended, it is a MUST HAVE.

If the grain wasn't there, I would have been pissed.

Same here. If some of it was shot on 500 asa (even 250) then there damn-well better be some of that beautiful grain on my tv. :D

Do I detect a hint of the "blues" in this thread? I've read some ridicules complaints here. The movie and it's content on HD is very good. I had no problems and have no complaints about the movie what so ever. If you look at the reviews, they all are similar in PQ/SQ.

Hi All,

First, BIG THANK YOU to CIRCUIT CITY for the AMAZING DEAL!!! My HD-DVD collection is finally growing. :)

TRANSFORMER REVIEW:::
PQ: Simply gorgeous!! The details are amazing, sharpness is fantastic, especially on daylight scene. And yes, there are grains in the movie. I only notice in the low light or night time scenes. The color is amazingly vibrant, not overly saturated, it is just right on. I would say, PQ wise on HD-DVD, Transformer and King Kong are the best. However, I like Transformer more because it simply have more colors.

AQ: When I first popped this movie in, I was very disappointed with the sound. Especially many reviewers have been raving about how amazing the sound on DD+ for this movie, and some even say that it rival PCM. Well, honestly, for the first ten mins, I was VERY VERY disappointed with the sound. I mean, my subwoofer didn't even brother to kick in. I was yawning. So, I decide to get dirty. I pumped the subwoofer "Level" up by two knot on my Onkyo 805 from 13db to 12db (increment of .5db). Still, sound like crap, the car engines are just as sleepy as it could get, especially when compare to "The Fast and the Furious" So, finally, I decided to F-ck with it, boost the volume from -3db to 00, and HOLY SH!TTEEE!!! The whole movie come alive, the sound were flying all over the place, when the Transformer transform, I can hear the details quite clearly. Especially when they tranforming on top of the actor, I literally feel like I'm directly under the transformer. And when the helicopter fly-by, I can tell exactly where it came from before it even hit the screen. Oh yeah, when the finale kick in. I'M IN THE BATTLE, it is freaking unbelievable!! This is by far, the best surround sound I have ever hear on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. UNBELIEVABLE!!! LOVE IT!!! I only wish they include a lossless sound.

In conclusion, if you not getting excellent PQ or AQ from Transformer, you might consider doing some recalibration. Cause I can tell you from first hand experience. This is truely HD-Heaven. HD-DVD rock on this baby!!

My System for this review: ONKYO 805 + XA2 Everything are all carefully calibrated. :)

Sidenote: I saw this movie in two fancy theaters that have amazing sound system, therefore, I'm fully aware of how this movie should sound. Hence, my disappointment in the first ten min. :)

Gee, sure wish I had this to review or watch even -- I guess I made the mistake of preordering through AMAZON. They inform me that they will ship it out on October 22, then give some tortured explanation involving super-saver shipping.

Hey AMAZON, it is a courtesy, convenience and huge plus TO YOU to have me pre-order -- not a great convenience TO ME. If I had waited till Tuesday to order, I would have had it by Friday -- now I have to wait.

Last time AMAZON.

Yea I was in the same boat as you. I had it Pre-Ordered from amazon quite awhile ago. I then see other AVSer's saying on Monday night (10/15) that amazon is already showing as shipping because they use amazon prime.
Come Tuesday morning my order isn't even showing as "shipping soon!"
I do not use amazon prime so I guess that is why.
However I find that to be unacceptable which is exactly why I cancelled my order for Transformers with them. I decided to get it at Circuit City and they had the BOGO offer going so I got it the day it was released for $15.00!!!
Sooo glad I cancelled my order with them!

In any case, not buying Transformers on HD DVD merely because it doesn't have Lossless is like kicking Jessica Alba out of bed because she farted.

That's relative. Was she drinking a lot of beer before?

what does the term "grain" mean. I think I was seeing this during some night time scenes but want to know exactly what it means. Can someone elaborate.

what does the term "grain" mean. I think I was seeing this during some night time scenes but want to know exactly what it means. Can someone elaborate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_grain

gracias, any pictures anywhere of what "grain" might look like

Also,since you're showing pictures.Can you just show what the cover of the dvd in blu-ray looks like( i want to buy the right one the first time around).

Yea I was in the same boat as you. I had it Pre-Ordered from amazon quite awhile ago. I then see other AVSer's saying on Monday night (10/15) that amazon is already showing as shipping because they use amazon prime.
Come Tuesday morning my order isn't even showing as "shipping soon!"
I do not use amazon prime so I guess that is why.
However I find that to be unacceptable which is exactly why I cancelled my order for Transformers with them. I decided to get it at Circuit City and they had the BOGO offer going so I got it the day it was released for $15.00!!!
Sooo glad I cancelled my order with them!

It IS unacceptable to pre-order and then still not get it until weeks after the release date. Please tell me about the Circuit City offer. BOGO means nothing to me -- what is that? Are you talking about CC online or B&M store deal? Guess I can always cancel my AMAZON order, after all, I still have a week or so before they say they will even ship it.

what does the term "grain" mean. I think I was seeing this during some night time scenes but want to know exactly what it means. Can someone elaborate.

I'm probably the last one to answer, but it's just another tool they use to effect the image here, there or everywhere - kinda like the way an artist can shade or blend a specific area that meets another area, like a neighboring object, helps ensure the viewer see's areas sitting nicely side by side, sorta easing any differences, where without it, one area may seem to stark and odd, I dunno, something like that I guess. It's not always needed or used, some artists keep everything ultra clean, others like the bold look - grain in movies can adds boldness, gritt, etc...I don't mind seeing it, just a touch though. =)

Bought the HD DVD yesterday, went straight home and threw it in my HD-A2. Hands down, this is the best HD DVD I own or that I have watched. As far as content, PQ and AQ this movie has it ALL!!!

PS I never saw this movie in the theaters saw it was extra special at home!!! :D

i watched it for the first time last night and i was really impressed with both the PQ and AQ. Top notch and i look forward to watching this movie again tonight :)

It IS unacceptable to pre-order and then still not get it until weeks after the release date. Please tell me about the Circuit City offer. BOGO means nothing to me -- what is that? Are you talking about CC online or B&M store deal? Guess I can always cancel my AMAZON order, after all, I still have a week or so before they say they will even ship it.

BOGO = buy one get one free and as of yesterday was available in most of the CC B&Ms. In essence I paid $15 for my copy.

BOGO = buy one get one free and as of yesterday was available in most of the CC B&Ms. In essence I paid $15 for my copy.
Very good. Thank you. I will have to get myself to a store immediately!

It IS unacceptable to pre-order and then still not get it until weeks after the release date. Please tell me about the Circuit City offer. BOGO means nothing to me -- what is that? Are you talking about CC online or B&M store deal? Guess I can always cancel my AMAZON order, after all, I still have a week or so before they say they will even ship it.

The CC was a glitch in the system, which allowed ppl to buy two HD's and the register would take half off. It has been widely reported today, that CC has corrected that glitch. While it lasted, it was only available in store.

I rec'd my Transformers yesterday from Amazon and I bought a copy from CC with their BOGO glitch. If you are interested PM me...I was going to return my copy, but would be happy to sell my Amazon copy for cost (Amazon's 10% off) + actual shipping....instead of returning it.

Ron

Do I detect a hint of the "blues" in this thread? I've read some ridicules complaints here. The movie and it's content on HD is very good. I had no problems and have no complaints about the movie what so ever. If you look at the reviews, they all are similar in PQ/SQ.

No, I think you just fail to detect the hyperbole and wishful thinking from people who love this film and seem to think that TF on HD is superior to anything/everything that came before it. It's a first rate transfer. Tier zero for sure, but after watching it at home last night you're not going to convince me that this is somehow technically superior to Kong. IMO Kong has the same quality great sound and picture as this release does TF simply stands out because the film itself is actually good.

Also,since you're showing pictures.Can you just show what the cover of the dvd in blu-ray looks like( i want to buy the right one the first time around).

I can show you the cartoon version on Blue Ray because that's all your getting... Just go buy yourself an HD DVD player this way you can join in instead of just lurking.

No, I think you just fail to detect the hyperbole and wishful thinking from people who love this film and seem to think that TF on HD is superior to anything/everything that came before it. It's a first rate transfer. Tier zero for sure, but after watching it at home last night you're not going to convince me that this is somehow technically superior to Kong. IMO Kong has the same quality great sound and picture as this release does TF simply stands out because the film itself is actually good.
I think you fail at responding to my post in its proper content by using the creation of a comparison by your own means. It's through this creation that makes your response to my post moot.

but it isn't the BEST they have to offer.
You most certainly would be a minority in saying that.
I have to say, with all the BD movies I have, and HD DVDs. This is top on my list as demo material.
My movies here - http://www.3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48022
(please note, I have not updated the equipment setup in that 2 1/2 month old thread, but I assure you - it is setup)
I just add the movies...

The reviews led me to expect reference pq and aq and I was not disappointed. What did surprise me was how much I loved the movie itself.

The CC was a glitch in the system, which allowed ppl to buy two HD's and the register would take half off. It has been widely reported today, that CC has corrected that glitch. While it lasted, it was only available in store.

I rec'd my Transformers yesterday from Amazon and I bought a copy from CC with their BOGO glitch. If you are interested PM me...I was going to return my copy, but would be happy to sell my Amazon copy for cost (Amazon's 10% off) + actual shipping....instead of returning it.

Ron
Interesting. I just called my local B&M CC and they confirm I could buy two TRANSFORMERS for the cost of one, so as long as the glitch holds, I guess I'm good to go.......

You most certainly would be a minority in saying that.

according to HD DVD fanboys I will, but it's not the best I've seen or heard. However, that's not my point. If DD+ is so called "The best they have to offer" they would not include True HD tracks on movies or DTS HD Master Audio. I'm pretty sure over @ Dolby or DTS laboratories they will strongly disagree with you!

Interesting. I just called my local B&M CC and they confirm I could buy two TRANSFORMERS for the cost of one, so as long as the glitch holds, I guess I'm good to go.......

This is a pretty typical post today in the BOGO thread here and at DVDTalk


Just got back from the Albany, NY store. Deal is dead. Cashier noted that the glitch affected many bluray titles too. And that all morning he's had to re-sort both types of HDM.

gracias, any pictures anywhere of what "grain" might look like

Have you ever looked at film ?This is sad to the point that I have to wonder if you are joking. Grain is the structure that makes up the image in film. Any format that transfers from film faithfully will have grain.

Art

All daytime scenes look amazing, I just thought the grain was a bit excess in dark scenes (almost reminded me of Miami Vice).

Yet another post about the grain in dark scenes! Why do so many folks post without reading the rest of the thread or even some of the reviews?

The grain was intentional! It's how it looked in the theater!

Mark

Yet another post about the grain in dark scenes! Why do so many folks post without reading the rest of the thread or even some of the reviews?

The grain was intentional! It's how it looked in the theater!

Mark

Very true, same BS I saw from HD-DVD Fanboys talking about certain Blu-Ray transfers and the same hypicrital ones posting on how good this transfer looks.. I agree with you the sound and transfer of this film is good, some times people have an agenda... ;)

OMG grain in dark scenes. The horror. Must be about time for another "I hate grain thread".

Yet another post about the grain in dark scenes! Why do so many folks post without reading the rest of the thread or even some of the reviews?

The grain was intentional! It's how it looked in the theater!

Mark

Why are you getting so defensive? I said I normally don't mind grain and I never said it ruined the movie for me (infact I mentioned several times that I thought the overall quality was excellent).
I was simply posting my observation and was curious if anyone else felt the same way. I never said that it was a bad transfer or that it was intentional. I have read almost the entire thread. I think you need to read/comprehend my post (that you happen to be quoting) before you acuse me of not reading the ENTIRE thread.

I'll state it once again, this movie is amazing, the PQ is amazing although I felt the grain the was a bit excessive in darker scenes whether intentional or not (why is it a crime to mention that in this forum).

If that is not enough to make you feel better.....
I am an exclusive HDDVD owner (29 discs), I dislike sony and do not plan on ever buying a sony branded product again.

I'll think twice before I post a non-100% positive remark about an HDDVD again.

The reviews led me to expect reference pq and aq and I was not disappointed. What did surprise me was how much I loved the movie itself.

My sentiments as well !

I watched TF last night on my A2 which is connected to my Panny 47x54 RPTV and hooked up to my Panny XR55 receiver via optical. Holy crap what a great movie, the video was outstanding and the audio was earpopping on my JBL speakers. This one is show material to my relatives interested in HD-DVD.


Rob

Did I read here somewhere that a sequel is already in the works\pre planning? Hope so...

Like everyone else, I was also expecting Transformers to deliver with demo level PQ\AQ after reading all the great reviews (and of course it does), but what I wasn't sure about because it can be so subjective, was the flick itself - and I have to admit, I was surprised at what a thrill ride it turned out to be, total blast from start to fin, this has loads of replay value to it due to the fun factor.

If that is not enough to make you feel better.....
I am an exclusive HDDVD owner (29 discs), I dislike sony and do not plan on ever buying a sony branded product again.

I'll think twice before I post a non-100% positive remark about an HDDVD again.

People (like me) are upset w/ others complaining about grain because grain IS A PART OF FILM. HD Media isn't supposed to 'clean up' or 'remove' grain. The grain you see ISN'T a defect that you're seeing. Sadly many think every movie should look like Pixar animated films when ported to HD.

People aren't slighting you because of a format bias...we're slighting you because your basis for criticism is off base.

Grain.Is.Not.A.Defect.Of.HD.Media

Connected via HDMI1.3a cable to my 1.3 capable receiver (Onkyo 875) it lights up multi channel inputs. But When turned to refrence level (0) the found stage is very muted.

I have my refrence level set at 90db. I can hardly play a SD dvd DTS ont this setting. So i know I am doing something wrong.

I have the 705 and the A2, and had a similar experience. This was to be the first showing in my new theatre (slash son's playroom, nothing is perfect). So I went and snagged it early in the morning, brought it home and popped it in (thank you new full light control). Sounded really flat, with crappy dialog and overloud music and effects. It was so bad that I actually dug out my old center channel (not used in 6 years) and set it up to see if maybe my new receiver wasn't compensating for my phantom center properly (flameware on: center channels *suck*). It sounded even worse. So I started turning off all sound processing options, THX, Audessy, etc. Nothing helped.

Popped in a (unmentionable in this forum Sony product) and it sounded great. WTF? Anyway, long story endless I remembered something about dialog "enhancement" in the A2 menu and wanted to make sure it wasn't on. Lo and behold, it turns out that "Dynamic Range Compensation" was turned on. I know I didn't turn that junk on, best I can figure is that the firmware update I did a while ago must have reset it? So check that setting, cause it just *ruins* the AQ. Turned that garbage off and (angels singing) wow, what a difference.

Anyone else experience anything similar? I don't want to think that I'm going to have to go back and double check every setting in the player after every FW upgrade.

Film grain or granularity is the random optical texture of processed photographic film due to the presence of small grains of a metallic silver developed from silver halide that have received enough photons.

PLEASE read the definition above.....
Most people have no idea what "grain" actually is or looks like. They assume whatever artifact they are seeing is "grain". We really do need some pictures of it around here. And pictures of other artifacts. So everyone can stop calling every single artifact "grain"....

Did I read here somewhere that a sequel is already in the works\pre planning? Hope so...
Set for 6/26/09 release. Hired back the two writers plus added a third:
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=37625
http://www.michaelbay.com/blog/files/10467adfa376e94fe52bd2092d9711af-171.html

Having seen the movie five times in the theater, including IMAX, the transfer is spot on. Tier Zero for sure. When Ironhide transforms, fires his cannons, and flips over the screaming girl, the bass in that scene rattled the curtain rods in my living room. :D

I can't wait for the sequel. Im just anxious to see what 'new' Transformers will be making an appearance for the 2nd one.

I can't wait for the sequel. Im just anxious to see what 'new' Transformers will be making an appearance for the 2nd one.
Dinobots! :)

The point I'm trying to make is that I should not be slighted because I never said that it wasn't meant to be there. I have stated several times that I normally do not have a problem with grain and actually prefer it in most cases. I was simply stating I did not prefer it in the darker scenes were it (in my opinion) was excessive.

Tell me how that is off base, I'm giving my opinion. Again I never said that it wasn't intentional. How is my comment off-base when I never wrote what your accusing me of writing?

What your doing is lumping me in with the people who complain about any grain. I have never complained about grain nor am I complainging about it now. I prefer the daytime scenes with more natural-looking grain to the darker scenes with the choppier grain.

Can we atleast agree that there are some dark scenes in the movie that have more noticable grain than the daytime scenes?

People (like me) are upset w/ others complaining about grain because grain IS A PART OF FILM. HD Media isn't supposed to 'clean up' or 'remove' grain. The grain you see ISN'T a defect that you're seeing. Sadly many think every movie should look like Pixar animated films when ported to HD.

People aren't slighting you because of a format bias...we're slighting you because your basis for criticism is off base.

Grain.Is.Not.A.Defect.Of.HD.Media

Why are people now posting comparisons about the Gobots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXB4wvqCPBU) after the release of this movie?

Anyone else experience anything similar? I don't want to think that I'm going to have to go back and double check every setting in the player after every FW upgrade.

After updatig any product you should ALWAYS make sure the settings are correct, Think about it, what does a firmware upgrade do? Those players dont have anywhere to store user settings except inside the firmware storage location......if you erase that, what happens to your settings???

And dynamic range compression sucks! It removes the low and high frequencies from the sound it plays. It has only one use, to stop the sound from waking the neighbors!

And a list of all the files in the HVDVD_TS folder:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers4.JPG

Any idea why it lists feature 1 and feature 2? Does it does it split the main feature because it is on 2 layers of the disk or is that transparent to the file system?

Any idea why it lists feature 1 and feature 2? Does it does it split the main feature because it is on 2 layers of the disk or is that transparent to the file system?

The PC doesnt care about layers. When it reads a file system, it is reading it off the DISK. Thats what the disk's file system say is on it.
Now the designers of the movie might care about those layers, maybe they ahve to do it this way?
I dont know, but there is in fact, 2 "feature" folders on that disk.

Set for 6/26/09 release. Hired back the two writers plus added a third:
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=37625
http://www.michaelbay.com/blog/files/10467adfa376e94fe52bd2092d9711af-171.html

Having seen the movie five times in the theater, including IMAX, the transfer is spot on. Tier Zero for sure. When Ironhide transforms, fires his cannons, and flips over the screaming girl, the bass in that scene rattled the curtain rods in my living room. :D

Thanks!!! Great news. =)

In the spirit of Michael's sig:

Transformers HD DVD audio reviews

DVD Authority: 5/5 (http://www.dvdauthority.com/reviews.asp?reviewID=5366)
DVD Talk: 5/5 (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30988)
DVD Town: 10/10 (http://www.dvdtown.com/reviews/transformers/5245/2)
High-Def Digest: 5/5 (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html)
High-Def Disc News: 5/5 (http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/?p=239)
IGN: 10/10 (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/827/827463p2.html)
TV Predictions: 5/5 (http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/10/hd-dvd-review-transformers.html)

I just came from my local CC and everything rang up full price. I was lucky that it was the same person that checked me out yesterday so she remembered the sale and told her manager about it and he told her to manually discount the price. So they are aware of it but they are still honoring the price.

anyone have problems playing this at 24fps on the 3rd gen players?

People who complain about grain in this movie either A) have never watched it in the threatre, or B) know nothing about HD media, or C) all of the above.

People who complain about grain in this movie either A) have never watched it in the threatre, or B) know nothing about HD media, or C) all of the above.

Or D) Dont understand how low light levels naturally introduce grain on film and other photographic media. :rolleyes:

Can transformers DD+ pass through optical or coaxial? my 5.1 analog setup is not loud enough for this movie!!

Can transformers DD+ pass through optical or coaxial? my 5.1 analog setup is not loud enough for this movie!!
No DD+ can not. (but clearly this is not limited to this movie)

Can transformers DD+ pass through optical or coaxial? my 5.1 analog setup is not loud enough for this movie!!

Turn it up ?

Or D) Dont understand how low light levels naturally introduce grain on film and other photographic media. :rolleyes:

LOL, which lands under B).

Turn it up ?

I did full blast not nearly as loud as I had hoped. but thats goes with all my movies using 5.1 analog I guess I'm too used to the loudness of the movie theaters for transformers

My reference titles:

LD - Phantom Menace SW Ep.1

DVD - The Fifth Element

D-Theater - Moulin Rougue

HD optical media - Transformers

It may not be the best, sharpest, most detailed in PQ out there but overall including the AQ this is THE HD disc to pop in to DEMO your HT.

'nuff said.

I'm confused about the sound, I have my A20 "SPDIF" = Bitstream and "HDMI" = Auto. Are these settings correct for this movie? My receiver says "MULTI CH PCM" or do I need to change something?

Thanks.

anyone?

anyone?
Cage123,

I have mine XA2 "HDMI Sound" set to PCM for DD+ and TrueHD sound. I let the player do all the sound decoding. XA2 is hooked up to the Onkyo 805 through HDMI.

anyone?

Thats how I have my XA2 set-up using HDMI for audio into my receiver which says the same thing as your's. If thats any help.

Here is the exact sound setting I use for "TRANSFORMER" on the XA2 for those who interested,

Dialog Enhance: OFF
Dynamic Range Control: OFF
SPDIF: PCM (Doesn't matter, cause I don't use it)
HDMI: PCM (The player do the decoding)

Good luck...

thanks guys, I just wanted to make sure. Twice during the movie, the sound stopped working, I had to switch my receiver from hdmi1 to 2 and then back to 1 and then the sound came back. Any idea why this would happen? I have the HK AVR247 and A20

Or D) Dont understand how low light levels naturally introduce grain on film and other photographic media. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's that 800 speed 35mm film they had to use to brighten the night while keeping the desired depth of field - else they'd have to crank that aperture wide open! :rolleyes:

There was some normal fine "film grain" that was (as usual) a little bit more noticeable in night/dark scenes. However, that shot in the dark room was a mess. Film grain? Excuse me, but that one scene was reminiscent of my experience with my old cheap digicam trying to record scenes by candle light before I upgraded to a real 3-CCD model. Perhaps they decided to reuse 2 minutes of film footage from the 300 movie? Or perhaps it was the director's intent to make JUST these 2 minutes look like the 300 movie as some sort of tongue-and-cheek reference to it?

Now I can't be picky and base my own personal score of 8/10 PQ for these 2 minutes alone, but there definitely was a problem with this shot. When they instantly shift to an even DARKER scene and the grainy mess is suddenly gone never to reappear again in the movie, the inconsistency should tell you something. So I dock it a .5 for this scene. They should never have let this go. I wouldn't have.

Obviously being critical isn't something everyone appreciates here, so I'll opt to keep the reasons why I docked the other 1.5 to other forums. Good grief, has this format war gotten to the point where even the HD DVD siders can't criticize specific aspects of transfers anymore without being insulted and demeaned? This is getting ridiculous.

Just a quick note on my part: Watched Transformers on a HD-E1 (Euro version of HD-A2) from the beginning to the end without problems. Great picture, at times a great film too.

I got mine from Amazon.com with sleeve and discs/holders in perfect shape, although the second disc was rattling loose but doesn't have visible marks luckily. I have yet to try the second disc or most extras though.

I'm a happy camper!

I decided to get it at Circuit City and they had the BOGO offer going so I got it the day it was released for $15.00!!!
Sooo glad I cancelled my order with them!
Yeah, i paid full price for my first one.
I am posting this over at AH (so pics are over there in the deals section)

There was a glitch in the sale, they added Transformers as a BD disc.
And the BD discs were BOGO.

So, I now have 4 copies of Transformers. (mine, 1 X-Mas gift, and 2 for sale to our friends in the UK that want it now)

Will upload my reciepts as proof.
This may not work at your CC (Circuit City), they pulled the add the previous day at most areas.

See pic (yeah, I went in a few times, and picked up other movies as well)

EDIT, Link directly to the deals section with my post at AH.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=320867#post320867

this was JUST like it was filmed in the theater...so they succeeded here.

Dear God let's hope this doesn't go down the same road of the 300 quality debates.

I saw this on IMAX and I don't recall tons of grains on night scenes. Plus, DTS blew me away in IMAX.

I saw this on IMAX and I don't recall tons of grains on night scenes. Plus, DTS blew me away in IMAX.

I saw this movie twice in the theaters and every single scene that had grain in the theaters has grain in the HD DVD just the way it is. Especially lots of the night scenes.

Call me crazy buy I took it upon myself to notice all the grainy scenes specifically because I wanted to see how well this puppy was going to be transferred. I saw it 4 times in the theater. 2 DLP screenings, 1 regular, and once in I-MAX. There was grain in all the same scenes in all the different venues and guess what? They're faithfully reproduced on the disc. No filtering or digital manipulation to get rid of it.
Its not even that bad....in the end it doesn't matter. The overwhelming majority have spoken! Transformers is THE definitive demo disc for either format! Its got the PQ, AQ and tons of features, bells and whistles! It's the one to beat and NOTHING else can touch it this year! :) Dual format owner here with twice the amount of BD vs HD..so don't even go there! ;)
Yes, I have the Australian imports of the Spiderman movies and none of them come close to Transformers in overall punch! Pirates 3...maybe. I enjoyed it but its dark color palette wont shine like the first 2 films did. Still looking forward to it though. Off to show off Transformers to more friends tonight!! :D

Call me crazy buy I took it upon myself to notice all the grainy scenes specifically because I wanted to see how well this puppy was going to be transferred. I saw it 4 times in the theater. 2 DLP screenings, 1 regular, and once in I-MAX. There was grain in all the same scenes in all the different venues and guess what? They're faithfully reproduced on the disc.

Exactly. Which is why this title deserves a PQ review rating of 5/5, because the HD DVD does its job and accurately represents the film. People complaining about the grain: you are commenting on the film, not the HD DVD ;)

I'm currently in the middle of watching the movie and I have to say, that, beyond the awesome video and audio quality, the movie itself is really good. It has inspired me to write a new verse to the Transformers song:

Transformers...
Pleasantly surprised...
Transformers...
It's better than I thought i'd be--got me mesmerized.
Transformers!

Exactly. Which is why this title deserves a PQ review rating of 5/5, because the HD DVD does its job and accurately represents the film. People complaining about the grain: you are commenting on the film, not the HD DVD ;)

Exactly. With a pure source you can then tailor the noise reduction to your liking with a video processor...

I'll state it once again, this movie is amazing, the PQ is amazing although I felt the grain the was a bit excessive in darker scenes whether intentional or not (why is it a crime to mention that in this forum).

So, it's a critique of the MOVIE.. of the director's intent, not of the HD DVD transfer? The grain would bug you in the theater too?

If so, my apologies. I mistakenly thought you were specifically reviewing the transfer of the HD DVD when you posted your comments here in the Transfomers HD DVD Master Review Thread.

Mark

What does "Sub Video - VC1" mean?

What does "Sub Video - VC1" mean?

I'm guessing that refers to the PiP?

I saw this movie twice in the theaters and every single scene that had grain in the theaters has grain in the HD DVD just the way it is. Especially lots of the night scenes.

I was under the impression (from one of the other forums) that grain is never an artifact with HDM. Not like banding, pixelation etc.

It's either unintentionally caused by the film used, the camera/settings (specifically at night), or intentionally added for effect using filters during post production (such as we see on 300).

What many who are more experienced than I have said is that if you see grain, it's supposed to be there. Period. The higher resolution of HDM and the smaller size of home televisions vs. theatres would also lead to seeing more grain but it was there on the master the whole time.

You shouldn't find grain on a transfer but not on the original.

With my 720P PJ (BenQ PE8720) on my 120" screen the picture was simply the best I have ever seen in my HT! :eek::eek::eek:
I kept having to pick my jaw up off the floor. Simply amazing. Audio was quite excellent too once I cranked up the sound a bit higher than usual.
About halfway through the disc the picture started to slow down and then came to a stop and I got the dreaded error code 408bc504. At first I was sick. I then googled the error code number and not surprisingly it brought me to AVS forum. After reading a post with the same problem I just cleaned the disc and it played to the end with no problems.
All in all it was a very enjoyable evening and I look foward to seeing this movie again.

I'm guessing that refers to the PiP?

Yes. The movie is encoded in AVC and the subvideo pip stuff is VC-1

I really get a kick out of you guys. I have a question that could not BE ANSWERED in another POST.....

I just finished Transformers.

Here is my setup

Sony VPL Vw50 (calibrated) 100" screen viewed from 150" away.
Onkyo 875
Klipsch RF-7 (all the way around.) Fronts bi-amped

And plenty more that is not relevant to this post.

I just bought a Samsung bd1400 and a Toshiba HD a20

I have to turn my RCVR past reference level to get a solid sound from this movie track. I pulled out the movie and put in Fantastic 4 RSS in the BD and I have to turn it down 10db.

I also noticed there are a lot of "soft" content in this sound track. Mainly machine guns and cars. Voice is spot on and Bass is amazing. But the mids are lacking.

PQ is GREAT. but that also has a lot to do with my setup.

So back to a question that has yet to be answered...

IS HD-DVD that soft or do I have an inferior unit. Should I have another unit, if so which one? When I put my Disc 2 in it will NOT play. I have updated the firmware.


Don't go calling "Troll" and the other childish crap I see on here. If you can't answer my question then dont reply (please.)

I have given a lot of advice in the world of theater. I am at a point where I now need some help.
HDa20 inferior?

Here is my personal opinion at this point.

HDDVD faster load time.
BD better sound OPTIONS (read this as options not better sound, just more options)
PS3 is a piece of CRAP took it back after 12 days
Neither unit really like to "give up" control of RCVR in HDMI handshake.
HDDVD is more expensive (the few titles I have picked up.)
HD DVD case looks better
BD remote looks better
BD was easier to Update (faster HDVD lost signal 4 times)
BD menu is better. (HDDVD menu looked cheap)

THese are a few of my observations. Can someone PLEASE guide me to the "light" :o

I would really like to keep both units. But if I cant get GREAT sound out of the player then I will just buy the XBOX addon unit
I had it on launch day but was very disappointed in sound quality.


Quick edit: I REALLY enjoyed the movie. But i just have these concerns. I had 5 friends over watching and they all loved it. I however am very critical.

When I put my Disc 2 in it will NOT play. I have updated the firmware.
All I can tell you is that something is certainly amiss.
I do not have the A20, but I do have the XA1 and the A2.
Both the discs played perfect in both my players, (yes main movie and features disc)
I have not seen even a slight glitch, and I have now watched the movie 3 times. (twice in XA1 once in A2)

Since you mentioned F4 RotSS, I had just played that the day before in my BD-P1200.
And I am getting longer load times than most people I see on the forums, 3.5 minutes to load and very strange 2 minutes to eject (and this is the only movie that happens to)

The Transformers on both players, loads perfectly fine (so I did not bother checking load times)

If you have no problems with any other of your HD DVDs, I would certainly try another Transformers disc.
Hopefully you have a nearby friend that has the disc, or you are like me and bought 4 copies. (2 for sale, 1 X-Mas gift, and my copy)

Don't know what to tell you honestly. I have no problems with Transformers playing audio wise in my A2. I had to raise the volume about 5 notches higher than usual films but other than that, the sound is amazing, cars,guns etc.
Can't comment on the 1400..I use the PS3 as my Blu-ray player and wouldn't trade it for anything else on the market.
I have the A2 and PS3 hooked up with HDMI to my Onkyo TX-SR604

just watched it again.. man, i can watch the last 30 minutes of this movie over and over again :)

I really get a kick out of you guys. I have a question that could not BE ANSWERED in another POST.....

I just finished Transformers.

Here is my setup

Sony VPL Vw50 (calibrated) 100" screen viewed from 150" away.
Onkyo 875
Klipsch RF-7 (all the way around.) Fronts bi-amped

And plenty more that is not relevant to this post.

I just bought a Samsung bd1400 and a Toshiba HD a20

I have to turn my RCVR past reference level to get a solid sound from this movie track. I pulled out the movie and put in Fantastic 4 RSS in the BD and I have to turn it down 10db.



Things to check/try:
(If one doesn't work try the next.)

Make sure dynamic audio enhancement (or whatever it's called) on the HD-DVD player is turned off.

If you have multiple audio inputs into your receiver, try using one of the other inputs and check the sound.

Try different audio cable.

Is the Onkyo one of those that can do the DD+ decoding? If so and if that's how you have things set up, have the DVD player do the decoding. If so, and you already have the DVD player doing the decoding, try having the RCVR do the decoding.

I really get a kick out of you guys. I have a question that could not BE ANSWERED in another POST.....

I just finished Transformers.

Here is my setup

Sony VPL Vw50 (calibrated) 100" screen viewed from 150" away.
Onkyo 875
Klipsch RF-7 (all the way around.) Fronts bi-amped

And plenty more that is not relevant to this post.

I just bought a Samsung bd1400 and a Toshiba HD a20

I have to turn my RCVR past reference level to get a solid sound from this movie track. I pulled out the movie and put in Fantastic 4 RSS in the BD and I have to turn it down 10db.

I also noticed there are a lot of "soft" content in this sound track. Mainly machine guns and cars. Voice is spot on and Bass is amazing. But the mids are lacking.

PQ is GREAT. but that also has a lot to do with my setup.

So back to a question that has yet to be answered...

IS HD-DVD that soft or do I have an inferior unit. Should I have another unit, if so which one? When I put my Disc 2 in it will NOT play. I have updated the firmware.


Don't go calling "Troll" and the other childish crap I see on here. If you can't answer my question then dont reply (please.)

I have given a lot of advice in the world of theater. I am at a point where I now need some help.
HDa20 inferior?

Here is my personal opinion at this point.

HDDVD faster load time.
BD better sound OPTIONS (read this as options not better sound, just more options)
PS3 is a piece of CRAP took it back after 12 days
Neither unit really like to "give up" control of RCVR in HDMI handshake.
HDDVD is more expensive (the few titles I have picked up.)
HD DVD case looks better
BD remote looks better
BD was easier to Update (faster HDVD lost signal 4 times)
BD menu is better. (HDDVD menu looked cheap)

THese are a few of my observations. Can someone PLEASE guide me to the "light" :o

I would really like to keep both units. But if I cant get GREAT sound out of the player then I will just buy the XBOX addon unit
I had it on launch day but was very disappointed in sound quality.


Quick edit: I REALLY enjoyed the movie. But i just have these concerns. I had 5 friends over watching and they all loved it. I however am very critical.

Don't know what to tell you honestly. I have no problems with Transformers playing audio wise in my A2. I had to raise the volume about 5 notches higher than usual films but other than that, the sound is amazing, cars,guns etc.
Can't comment on the 1400..I use the PS3 as my Blu-ray player and wouldn't trade it for anything else on the market.
I have the A2 and PS3 hooked up with HDMI to my Onkyo TX-SR604

I got a PM from another member. He told me to make sure that audio compression was turned OFF. I will check first thing in the morning.

Yeah my BD player takes about 2-3 minutes to load. VERY SAD
A20 took about 1 minute to load Transformers.


I do however thank BOTH of you for your comments.

I really want to have the best of both. I may just have to break down and buy the Xa2 ( i hear that is the best one.)

I got a PM from another member. He told me to make sure that audio compression was turned OFF. I will check first thing in the morning.

Yeah my BD player takes about 2-3 minutes to load. VERY SAD
A20 took about 1 minute to load Transformers.


I do however thank BOTH of you for your comments.

I really want to have the best of both. I may just have to break down and buy the Xa2 ( i hear that is the best one.)


I had issues with 2 A2, hence I am only using the Xbox add on, but I am seriously thinking of the Samsung 5000 dual format player or the new LG BH200 which is out, price still needs to come down though.. Also have you updated your BD player firmware, my boot up times for movies are very fast.. But I am not using the Samsung. Transformers looks great on both HD-DVD and even the Standard DVD isn't bad either..

I may just have to break down and buy the Xa2 ( i hear that is the best one.)
Personally, I would wait for the XA2 replacement.
If you want the best.

I am getting ready to sell my XA1, only to wait for the replacement for the XA2. (might get the A35)

In the spirit of Michael's sig:

Transformers HD DVD audio reviews

DVD Authority: 5/5 (http://www.dvdauthority.com/reviews.asp?reviewID=5366)
DVD Talk: 5/5 (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30988)
DVD Town: 10/10 (http://www.dvdtown.com/reviews/transformers/5245/2)
High-Def Digest: 5/5 (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html)
High-Def Disc News: 5/5 (http://www.highdefdiscnews.com/?p=239)
IGN: 10/10 (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/827/827463p2.html)
TV Predictions: 5/5 (http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/10/hd-dvd-review-transformers.html)

Not so fast sir, Beatboy's rating was 4/5. http://www.hidefpreview.com/Transformers.html

Add that to your perfect AQ rating. :p :D ;)

Not so fast sir, Beatboy's rating was 4/5. http://www.hidefpreview.com/Transformers.html

Add that to your perfect AQ rating. :p :D ;)

What is hilarious about this is that he is supposed to be an objective reviewer....:)


His site is a waste of bandwidth....

Finally got to see transformers and I echo the comments of others. My 2nd disc only had one issue where it froE in the middle of the movie. A restart of the player fixed the issue.

well after reading about CC's BOGO deal I picked up Transformers HD and Topgun HD, Transformers was priced at $29.99 and when I checked out I paid $29.67 including tax for both movies. I was happy about the deal I got until I started watching Transformers, it froze and after pulling the disc out of the player I noticed there was marks all over the disc....so I returned it and got a playable copy. I think the quality was good, not great though. Topgun is a vast improvment over my SD DVD copy.

I gotta agree with Betboy, the sound is a 4/5 cause its much softer then I expected it to be, and far less agressive the I wanted.

I mean the majority of dialog of the robots come from the center, I wanted it span the entire front stage, sound off like they got a pair ya know?

I have checked and no DRC and all that junk is turned off. I have to run over optical so its DTS, and used PL IIx Music to span the dialog more so I can get what I expected....

~Bobby

Just watched the movie for the first time and really enjoyed it! It really is worth picking up an HDDVD player.

Finally got my copy of TF to work in my HTPC via the 260 add-on. Well, without a doubt, the SOUND on this disc is unbelievable. Especially the voices and especially Megatrons voice ("You failed me yet again Starscream.....").


Video was off the hook!!

PQ = 5/5 AQ = 5/5

A KNOCKOUT winner for HD DVD.

Got my copy yesterday. Played flawlessly on my A1. PQ and AQ is outstanding, don't understand how anyone can not rate it as 5/5 or 10/10 for PQ or AQ.

Tested on my xbox too and downloaded all the available web content. Got two S7 downloads so far, the one with VW beetle and other with Grimlock.

Will check Disc 2 tonight.

The audio is NOT perfect.
It IS lower as others have reported.
Bass missing on opening attack and gunfire in general.

Listen to the Iron Man trailer for comparison.
NIGHT AND DAY.

Good movie, good picture, disappointing sound.

Mix or encode?

I can also echo the comments about the audio level, it is lower and the sub not as punchy as other discs.

Dont get me wrong it is very good but I do have to turn it up way more than other discs, BR and HD DVD included.

I do remember the first like 20 minutes of the film (on theater) was kinda soft and/or grainy, and tha the movie "picked-up" around the sand attack, well that's exactly what happens here, the first minutes look grainy the rest great.

So for me, it reproduced the experience I had first time I saw the film, and I think that's what HD should be all about. It was great. I loved it, and I'm really "in love" with this edition. it kicks ass!!!

I don't believe there is a problem with the audio encode as others have stated. I'm running an A-1 over analog 5.1 to my Denon 2106 and it sounds fantastic! I have it turned up a smidge higher than for my other HD-DVDs, but not significantly. As for the bass in the opening attack, I think the lack of bass on the humans firing weapons was a deliberate choice for the mix because Scoropinok's(or whatever his name is) weapon firing was shaking my house. Perhaps it was meant to show you how puny human weapons were to a Transformer. Who knows, but that's my take on it.

WARNING: You might want to be careful with that. Many years ago a CD came out that had the 1812 overture on it. At the end they used real canons and recorded them. There was a big warning lable on the disk that warned about the "Digital" canons. This disk was known to break speakers, especially the high end ones. At the time, it was a reference disk. :eek:


that would be Telarcs recording of Tchaikovski:1812 Overture with digital recording of the cannons! ;)

Big fan of that particular title.

btw my review

PJ: Infocus IN82
Speakers: Klipsch Ultra2 THX 5.2 system.
Reciever: Integra DTC 9.4 (Not the newer 9.8!)
Amps: Fronts: 2 x Crown XLS 602 feeding the front. Rear: Anthem MCA-25 for rears. Subs: KA-1000-THX
Screen: DIY but in the process of remodel.
Listening: THX Reference level

The opening sceen with Blackout attack of the Qatar air base is actually quite suprising LFE wise. There is use of the LFE but it is definetly sub 20hz. The picture quality is quite amazing and mimics what I saw in the theaters (5 times mind you) with slight amount of grain in the night scene. The audio definetly got a work out. The subs did too. The gun ship scene when attacking scopronox, the lfe useage again was not loud but it was there. Same as the when bumblebee fights Barricade (the clashing). The ulitamate use of LFE is the Iron hide "rocket jump" scene (For all you quake players out there!). It goes low and LOUD.

Overall the picture quality is great (Dust on Optimus Primes windshield after the scuffle with Megatron) and the audio is outstanding!

10/10 PQ
10/10 AQ

I have to run over optical so its DTS,
No, it's DD.;) not DTS through optical (no DTS track at all):p

No, it's DD.;) not DTS through optical (no DTS track at all):p

He's probably using the 360 add-on which gives you the choice of converting tracks to DTS.

Don't all (remotely newer, like the last 5 years) AVRs have DTS Neo 6?,
It still does not make it a DTS over optical.:rolleyes:

Heck, I have all kind of DTS modes, as well THX.

btw my review

PJ: Infocus IN82
Speakers: Klipsch Ultra2 THX 5.2 system.
Reciever: Integra DTC 9.4 (Not the newer 9.8!)
Amps: Fronts: 2 x Crown XLS 602 feeding the front. Rear: Anthem MCA-25 for rears. Subs: KA-1000-THX
Screen: DIY but in the process of remodel.
Listening: THX Reference level

The opening sceen with Blackout attack of the Qatar air base is actually quite suprising LFE wise. There is use of the LFE but it is definetly sub 20hz.
This title has got me wondering if I should put in a custom port in my SVS 25-31 PC to get more 20 Hz extension. Or maybe just a new sub. :p

I originally wanted the supertight bass, for music, but I find I just turn it off completely for music, so I'd rather just have the superlow extension for movies.

It's a very slippery slope...

Retraction........


OK all I posted a message yesterday telling you that the sound quality was poor in the HD DVD of Transformers....

I got a PM from a fellow AVS member with some tips for my HD A20

AND ALL I CAN SAY IS HOLY SH!T BATMAN

I am very impressed with the SQ. I have never heard such clarity. I did a A/B comparison to the SD DVD version and it was a noticeable difference.

SO I will eb keeping the A 20 now and adding more HD DVD to my collection.


Thanks for everyones help...

SO I will eb keeping the A 20 now and adding more HD DVD to my collection.
Glad to hear (pun intended) you got it working correctly.;)

No, it's DD.;) not DTS through optical (no DTS track at all):p

Actually, the Tosh players extract the DD+ tracks, convert it to PCM, then reencode it to DTS at 1.5 mbps. Nice feature.

BTW: They even do this for DD+ recorded at 640kbps which is typically used on a 48/16 soundtrack. Same is true for other encodes.

Retraction........


OK all I posted a message yesterday telling you that the sound quality was poor in the HD DVD of Transformers....

I got a PM from a fellow AVS member with some tips for my HD A20

AND ALL I CAN SAY IS HOLY SH!T BATMAN

I am very impressed with the SQ. I have never heard such clarity. I did a A/B comparison to the SD DVD version and it was a noticeable difference.

SO I will eb keeping the A 20 now and adding more HD DVD to my collection.


Thanks for everyones help...

Awesome!

Actually, the Tosh players extract the DD+ tracks, convert it to PCM, then reencode it to DTS.
Sorry, I don't see that it converts it to a DTS track?????:confused:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/DDPlus_FAQ.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus

EDIT: NM, I see this - "The transcoding operation may introduce distortion and artifacts not present in the original program, but the resulting DTS/AC-3 bitstream can be transmitted via a standard S/PDIF/TOSLINK cable"
"Beyond basic compliance with the DD+ specification, some models of HD DVD players can also transcode DD+ to DTS-audio. DTS is less compressed than AC-3 (1536 kbit/s vs. 640 kbit/s), making it preferred by some consumers."

Sorry my bad... I don't use optical, I use the analog outs (well for the XA1).

Watched Transformers last night with the lady. This is my first HDDVD experiance (was avoiding HDm until everything settled, but I just couldn't miss Transformers in HD :o ) and really couldn't have been happier.

PQ was amazing (HL-T5676S and 360 add-on via VGA) and the AQ was perfectly acceptable on my DD/DTS only system.

I was especially happy with the extras which should keep me busy or quite some time. I'm pretty happy so far with the move to HDM.

I can also echo the comments about the audio level, it is lower and the sub not as punchy as other discs.

Dont get me wrong it is very good but I do have to turn it up way more than other discs, BR and HD DVD included.

If some here remember, Revenge of the Sith got hammered for having audio not of reference quality. People were saying not as good as Phantom Menace and AOTC. The sound design on Revenge is superb, you just need to turn up the Master volume 3 db's or so. Same with Transformers. GREAT sound design, but I had to turn it about 3 db higher than I have done on other HD discs.
I watched the first hour last night in awe...................................of Megan Fox in HD! :D Crikey! Also, the movie, for me, is much more enjoyable at home the second time than it was this summer in the theater.

The sound design on Revenge is superb, you just need to turn up the Master volume 3 db's or so.

I just finished testing this, and it is no where near as good as aotc or tpm. very little dynamic range, very little bass, distorted and over compressed voices.

The downloadable stuff is very cool. I like being able to see the Transformers energy/health and the info about all the vehicles and of course the comedic bits

"... after the infamous electric tooth brush incident..." :p

I've watched Transformers on a 720p projector and even on that resolution it looks awesome!

It's amazing with HD how you can see whether shots are focused precisely or not. There is typically some variation in focus or crispness in most movies, but one shot in Transformers I still can't believe. It's the night scene, after BumbleBee has his first fight with...whatever-the-other-transformer-is...and Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox have just defeated that scrabbly little robot. Then Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox watch as Bumblebee slowly approaches. The shot moves into a medium two-shot of LaBeouf and Fox - the part where he says something like "It's some kind of robot..."

The shot is TOTALLY out of focus! It wasn't "that shot is a bit soft" it is "Holy cow, that shot is completely out of focus! Like taking off your glasses." So much I thought my eyes were going blurry. I had to watch it a couple times to make sure but it was just completely out of focus. Right on the main actors. I'm amazed that shot could ever have slipped through the rushes, been chosen by the editor and made it all the way to the theater and HD-DVD release. Bizarre. Anyone else notice that one?

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

I wound up getting the disc as I want to give the movie another chance.

I did some previewing last night on my Eliab'd Sammy 61" DLP via my A20. The disc looks and sounds great.

However, I still think Hot Fuzz is the reigning "PQ champ" on HD DVD.

I will say I saw Transformers at a DLP screening in the theater, and the HD DVD looks exactly like what I remember from July.

I've watched Transformers on a 720p projector and even on that resolution it looks awesome!

It's amazing with HD how you can see whether shots are focused precisely or not. There is typically some variation in focus or crispness in most movies, but one shot in Transformers I still can't believe. It's the night scene, after BumbleBee has his first fight with...whatever-the-other-transformer-is...and Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox have just defeated that scrabbly little robot. Then Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox watch as Bumblebee slowly approaches. The shot moves into a medium two-shot of LaBeouf and Fox - the part where he says something like "It's some kind of robot..."

The shot is TOTALLY out of focus! It wasn't "that shot is a bit soft" it is "Holy cow, that shot is completely out of focus! Like taking off your glasses." So much I thought my eyes were going blurry. I had to watch it a couple times to make sure but it was just completely out of focus. Right on the main actors. I'm amazed that shot could ever have slipped through the rushes, been chosen by the editor and made it all the way to the theater and HD-DVD release. Bizarre. Anyone else notice that one?

I must have watched the HD demo on the PS3 about 100 times and it's totally out of focus. Saw it 4 times at the piccies and it was the same there too. Got my copy on HD too but can't watch for 2-3 weeks, until my EP30 arrives (UK A30).

I
The shot is TOTALLY out of focus! It wasn't "that shot is a bit soft" it is "Holy cow, that shot is completely out of focus! Like taking off your glasses." So much I thought my eyes were going blurry. I had to watch it a couple times to make sure but it was just completely out of focus. Right on the main actors. I'm amazed that shot could ever have slipped through the rushes, been chosen by the editor and made it all the way to the theater and HD-DVD release. Bizarre. Anyone else notice that one?


I noticed the exact same scene last night and couldn't believe how out of focus it was. This is the first HD movie I've seen/own. Is this a common phenomenon? I've been watching HD sporting events for some time and noticed it there too, but they are such dynamic environments I figured it was inevitable. I really didn't expect it in relatively static movie scenes though.

If some here remember, Revenge of the Sith got hammered for having audio not of reference quality. People were saying not as good as Phantom Menace and AOTC. The sound design on Revenge is superb, you just need to turn up the Master volume 3 db's or so. Same with Transformers. GREAT sound design, but I had to turn it about 3 db higher than I have done on other HD discs.
The sound is quite 'Sithy' in that it needs a lot of volume and doesn't do what folks want it to do, i.e. lots of bass is expected on the human gunfire at the beginning. For me, it's all about the mix. Human gunfire is quite muted throughout the movie, instead the bass comes into play whenever machinery or robots are doing, well, anything really!

The bass is mixed low and tight; when I first watched the HD DVD I honestly thought that I'd got some incorrect settings somewhere because the Blackout scene was so ineffective. I stopped the movie, checked everything, and then remembered some other movies on HDM that need the extra headroom of another 5db or so.

I started it again, cranked it some more, and it was like watching a different movie. The bass is so low it's subterranean, and the extra volume really brings it out. Dialogue is never lost in the din as long as it's played loud enough, and even then I heard no harshness whatsoever. Awesome, awesome mix.

With all the talk about the grain on the video side, no-one's really mentioned the superb colour reproduction. While the movie itself has a slightly jaundiced look, skin tones are never anything less than perfect (like the grain, this yellow tint is how it's supposed to look). And the skies - WOW. One of the reviews (from the guy who projected it X amount of times etc) mentions how there's no colour banding, and he's right.

My display is a plasma, and while I love it to bits it can make even the slightest bit of colour banding stand out even more. But this AVC transfer cannot be faulted on that regard, with every single shot of sun-drenched sky being perfectly graded. I'd love to have seen how VC1 would've handled this one! And oh! No edge halos whatsoever to spoil the fun. I agree with the views that edges look a little jagged in some shots, but that really is a minor nitpick.

Transformers is a superb effort from Paramount, and unquestionably deserves the near perfect ratings that it's been picking up.

I just finished testing this, and it is no where near as good as aotc or tpm. very little dynamic range, very little bass, distorted and over compressed voices.

This is off topic, but I must say that ROTS has the best sound mix out of all the Star Wars films. TPM and AOTC's bass was way too overblown.

I noticed the exact same scene last night and couldn't believe how out of focus it was. This is the first HD movie I've seen/own. Is this a common phenomenon? I've been watching HD sporting events for some time and noticed it there too, but they are such dynamic environments I figured it was inevitable. I really didn't expect it in relatively static movie scenes though.

Becareful with your "criticism" on this forum. Some will get upset and say that it was intentional therefore you should not be mentioning. :)
I did however, notice this scene and found it fascinating that we are able to pick these things out on HDM.

I finally got my review posted for all interested:

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/139003/pid/832121

Best,

I finally got my review posted for all interested:

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/139003/pid/832121

Best,

As always, good review Dave. BTW I love the Batman and Robin example you used for sound review;)

I finally got to see the Transformers HD-DVD last night with my wife and all I can say is "Un-Be-liev-able". The best HD-DVD out IMO. Sounds, Video, Content, everything was absolutely a beauty. I give it a 11 out of 10!

Nice review Dave. You don't mention LFE at all, I found it a bit on the low side, compared to many other titles anyway. Care to comment?

I finally got my review posted for all interested:

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/139003/pid/832121

Best,

great job Dave...someone posted in another thread the disc structure and it clearly has room for a Lossless track.

This is off topic, but I must say that ROTS has the best sound mix out of all the Star Wars films. TPM and AOTC's bass was way too overblown.

EXACTLY my feelings too! IMO, Revenge and Transformers are very similar in that regard. Once I boosted the Master volume on both, I was is awe of the wonderful sound design of both. Perhaps some day we can enjoy Star Wars in hi def audio? :cool:

LOW LFE??!! Then how could it be 5/5??

I thought the movie was terrible but after all the hoopla surrounding the HD DVD, I may have to go out and buy it and try and blow up my room!

Yes, that's pretty close. Here's the actual number of bytes consumed on the main disc:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers3.JPG

And a list of all the files in the HVDVD_TS folder:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/transformers4.JPG


Dave,
I think they could have done Lossless very easily.

Nice review Dave. You don't mention LFE at all, I found it a bit on the low side, compared to many other titles anyway. Care to comment?


I didn't feel that it was "overblown" at all. The overall sound mix was outstanding. When I listened to the Iron Man trailer, I thought that the bass was "pumped" up a bit in comparison, but I felt like the Transformers mix was overall an outstanding audio experience and thought the .LFE was prominent in the mix, but not overbearing.

I finally got my review posted for all interested:

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/139003/pid/832121

Best,


Nice review dave :)

I finally got to see the Transformers HD-DVD last night with my wife and all I can say is "Un-Be-liev-able". The best HD-DVD out IMO. Sounds, Video, Content, everything was absolutely a beauty. I give it a 11 out of 10!

same here man. we were both blown away. so glad I purchased this one.

here's my review:
Transformers on HD-DVD http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Becareful with your "criticism" on this forum. Some will get upset and say that it was intentional therefore you should not be mentioning. :)
I did however, notice this scene and found it fascinating that we are able to pick these things out on HDM.

agreed!

I saw it and thought my astigmatism was getting the best of me or I was lacking water (just got home from the Gym to see this). But after watching it 5 more times. Looks like the crew measured the distance incorrectly :)

I normally have LFE set to -5db because a lot of movies have overblown LFE, I'll need to set LFE back to normal and try again.

same here man. we were both blown away. so glad I purchased this one.

here's my review:
Transformers on HD-DVD http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif


Good stuff man:) Even my wife loved the presentation (and generally speaking, she can care less about HD-DVD's). There were many times that she thought the video images looked 3-D as if they were sticking out of the screen.

LOW LFE??!! Then how could it be 5/5??

I thought the movie was terrible but after all the hoopla surrounding the HD DVD, I may have to go out and buy it and try and blow up my room!

If the HT setup is not correctly REFERENCE CALIBRATED, then maybe low LFE.

On my DVE HD DVD REF CALIBRATED HT Setup, @ -10 dBc below REF LEVEL (w/105-106 dBc Fast LFE SPL Peaks), ... you can easily feel the sub-sonic LFE impacts in the floor, couch, walls, air, chairs and pant-legs when it's called for (Intro base attack, Autobots vs. Decepticons, etc.) throughout the "Transformers" movie!!!! :D GREAT HD DVD DEMO Material!!!

Phil

Those who found the overall bass to be too low either expected too much from this track, or their system isn't properly calibrated. I'm guessing the former is really what's at effect here, as some people expected their walls to cave in and their heads to pop from this track's low bass. I find the bass in this track to be perfectly balanced with the rest of the mix. Then again I was never a fan of overcooked bass.

Calibrated is fine, but LFE levels are all over the place from one film to another. The same thing with overall levels, I set the volume at the same level for every film but the films them selves vary up to 10db difference.

Calibrated is fine, but LFE levels are all over the place from one film to another. The same thing with overall levels, I set the volume at the same level for every film but the films them selves vary up to 10db difference.

Maybe I don't understand how you REF Calibrate your system and then write ...

I normally have LFE set to -5db because a lot of movies have overblown LFE, I'll need to set LFE back to normal and try again.

I have 55 HD DVD's (13 TrueHD the rest DD+ 5.1) and REF CALIBRATED my 6-CH Analog using 1st my Toshba HD-A1 (w/v2.3 FW) Internal Test Tones, ... then verified w/DVE TrueHD 5.1 Test Tones and, ... I never had to touch my LFE (powered-sub or Yamaha) controls for any of my HD DVD's.

The first time I get my new HD DVD movie, I grab my Radio Shack Analog SPL Meter, sit down @ my 'sweet spot', and dial up the action scenes and note where the SPL Meter Peaks @ 106 dBc, ... which is approx. -10 dBc below REF LEVEL (DIAL = 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST). I make a note of it and when the Friday NITE Group comes over, I know where to set my volume.

It's loud enough to feel the sub-sonic LFE impacts in the floor, couch, walls, air, chairs and pant-legs when it's called for, but it still maintains whispering dialog clarity during the movie's quieter moments! :D

Phil

Well compared to the LFE on V for Vendetta, Transformers is a pussycat. I'm not saying Transformers is wrong, I'm, just saying there is a very big difference between the 2.

My system is fully calibrated as well with LFE flat to 9 Hz... (with a 5 db boost at 25 Hz and below). My room is acoustically certified as well (and the PJ is ISF certified as well).

I watch most films at -5 to 0 (THX reference) and like above, never cut back the LFE..........just let it fly.

Looking forward to letting this one rip!

Well compared to the LFE on V for Vendetta, Transformers is a pussycat. I'm not saying Transformers is wrong, I'm, just saying there is a very big difference between the 2.

I don't own that film, but here's what HighDefDigest.com (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/vforvendetta.html) review wrote ...

The Audio: Rating the Sound

Low end, too, is boosted and delivers some serious rumbling during the film's otherwise lackluster action scenes.

... Certainly, there are some nice uses of discrete sounds and near-transparent imaging to create a very involving soundfield, but this is no 'Batman Begins' or even 'The Phantom of the Opera.'

So, it's possible that 'boosted' low end, could be the issue vs. Transformers.

The review mentions two HD DVD movies I have 'Batman Begins' & 'The Phantom of the Opera', and 'Batman Begins' is a sonic feast and HighDefDigest.com (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/batmanbegins.html) review wrote ...

Also making a great case for Dolby TrueHD is the exceptional dynamic range. Low bass here is some of the deepest I've heard -- the last 30 minutes or so of this film is a total gas when cranked up loud.

Comparing the two HD DVDs @ -10 dBc below REF LEVEL, ... I felt that "Transformers" was no less dynamic vs. "Batman Begins" and it some cases, "Transformers" dynamic LFE driven action sequence sonic design out-shined "Batman Begins" because of the story line and Sci-Fi theme subject!!!

"Transformers" is the definite DEMO HD DVD for me!!! ;)

Phil

Nice review dave :)

Thanks!

WOW! I just watched the first 90 minutes of the movie and so far PQ is awesome and SQ is awesome and I'm really enjoying the movie. Some parts are pretty funny as well. I can see myself watching this movie another 3 or 4 times at least...:D

There are compression artifacts in quite a few scenes, The scene where the glass blows out of the control tower at the Qatar base is especially bad, but past those scenes it looks good. The audio was quite good. I can't see it getting more than a 4 for video, and maybe a 4.5 for audio.

My system is fully calibrated as well with LFE flat to 9 Hz... (with a 5 db boost at 25 Hz and below). My room is acoustically certified as well (and the PJ is ISF certified as well).

I watch most films at -5 to 0 (THX reference) and like above, never cut back the LFE..........just let it fly.

Looking forward to letting this one rip!


Yeah! Crank that Vanity Fair calibrated toslink connection!! ;)

Has anybody checked out the sector 7 transmissions under the downloadable content on disc 1? Transmission #2 was very unexpected. check it out!

My God, this is what HD is supposed to look and sound like!!! Didn't care much for the film itself, first time seeing it, but what an assault on the senses! Unbelievable!

The closest I've seen to it would be Mel Gibsons Apacolypto on BR. Another beautiful site and sound presentation.

There are compression artifacts in quite a few scenes, The scene where the glass blows out of the control tower at the Qatar base is especially bad, but past those scenes it looks good. The audio was quite good. I can't see it getting more than a 4 for video, and maybe a 4.5 for audio.

Slim,

What is your display device? Using my LCD monitor on my computer, I see compression. But on my 1080p projector, they aren't there, even from less than 3 feet from the screen!

Dave,
I think they could have done Lossless very easily.

Bandwidth strikes again.

The first time I get my new HD DVD movie, I grab my Radio Shack Analog SPL Meter, sit down @ my 'sweet spot', and dial up the action scenes and note where the SPL Meter Peaks @ 106 dBc, ... which is approx. -10 dBc below REF LEVEL (DIAL = 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST). I make a note of it and when the Friday NITE Group comes over, I know where to set my volume.


Wow! All I do is watch the movie.

Slim,

What is your display device? Using my LCD monitor on my computer, I see compression. But on my 1080p projector, they aren't there, even from less than 3 feet from the screen!
HD1,
110" screen.
I'll watch it this weekend on a different system and see if that changes what I think. So far I have seen all of the same stuff on that system that I have seen at home, though. All HD movies have artifacting to some degree or another, and AVC encoded BDs seem to be bad about it. And, what do you know? After I had watched it and discussed that with a friend, I grabbed the case and it was AVC. It just doesn't seem to be a very mature codec at this point.

I finally got my review posted for all interested:

http://www.***************.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/139003/pid/832121

Best,

What took you so long? I've been checking your site daily since last weekend looking forward to your review. :p I've already bought the disc, but I'm glad to see you liked it.

Paramount sent me two disc 2's by mistake! Then I was gone on business on Tuesday night, so I didn't get to watch it until last night! Then I was up early this morning going through the bonus features. Those 2 disc sets take forever to review!

Those 2 disc sets take forever to review!

You got another one coming up with Face/Off. :D

I don't want to derail this thread, but when can we expect your review for Face/Off? This release has me more excited than Transformers.

Bandwidth strikes again.

Easy little boy blu.......

Paramount sent me two disc 2's by mistake! Then I was gone on business on Tuesday night, so I didn't get to watch it until last night! Then I was up early this morning going through the bonus features. Those 2 disc sets take forever to review!

Hah, that's an odd story. When will the review for Spidey 3 on BD be up, do you know?

Chad handles the BD stuff from Sony. As for Face Off, sometime next week. I have a HUGE stack of movies on my desk right now!

Here's the clip I was referring to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y-T3HytpMY

Finally got to watch my copy. Looked better than I remember in the theatre, fantastic disc.

.....

I was surprised how little the surround speakers were used. I kept turning them up. Interestingly, when the "Iron Man" trailer played the surround speakers "came alive".

.....

.

My wife , friend and I had the same observation. I went back and checked the player setup options and realized that the audio compression had not gotten set to off after a recent firmware update. After setting the compression to off the surrounds were much more alive as well in addition to the overall impact of the soundtrack being improved.

Wow..to comment on the pq I guess I'd have to watch it again and and look for it because I was immerssed. I only have a 2.0 system. While they are pretty nice speakers I guess I really wont make too many comments on that. However, I will say the bass was amazing. I live in an apartment, and while no one said anything I still feel bad. As others have mentioned, the "Ironhide jump" made bass sounds I've never heard my speakers make before. I've already finished the awesome extras as well. This is by far my favorite HD movie overall.

My God, this is what HD is supposed to look and sound like!!! Didn't care much for the film itself, first time seeing it, but what an assault on the senses! Unbelievable!

The closest I've seen to it would be Mel Gibsons Apacolypto on BR. Another beautiful site and sound presentation.Apacolypto blows this movie out the water on its best scenes.I thought the movie looked ok.I would give it a 4 pq just to many grainy and noisy dark scenes.It could be that I'm viewing this on a 106 inch screen and a 1080p projector.The movie Next (nic. cage) on hddvd looks way cleaner than this movie.

Apacolypto blows this movie out the water on its best scenes.I thought the movie looked ok.I would give it a 4 pq just to many grainy and noisy dark scenes.It could be that I'm viewing this on a 106 inch screen and a 1080p projector.The movie Next (nic. cage) on hddvd looks way cleaner than this movie.

This is how Tranformers looks. It looked that way in theaters and it looks that way on HD DVD.

This is how Tranformers looks. It looked that way in theaters and it looks that way on HD DVD.Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd but it still doesn't look as good as hot fuss,Next,potc 2,Apocalypto,I just get upset when a movie with such high production comes out with a picture Quality that is not mind blowing.How is a small movie like Next that didn't make any money in the theaters and Hot fuss can make a movie on hddvd that is better than Transformer pq wise.This does look better than ok but I was expecting something mind blowing like Hot fuss or potc 2

Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd but it still doesn't look as good as hot fuss,Next,potc 2,Apocalypto,I just get upset when a movie with such high production comes out with a picture Quality that is not mind blowing.How is a small movie like Next that didn't make any money in the theaters and Hot fuss can make a movie on hddvd that is better than Transformer pq wise.This does look better than ok but I was expecting something mind blowing like Hot fuss or potc 2

Bay like a grainy look to his films, plain and simple. The flesh tones bothered me more than anything in this one, but grain doesn't bother me, especially knowing the style of the director that is involved.

Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd but it still doesn't look as good as hot fuss,Next,potc 2,Apocalypto,I just get upset when a movie with such high production comes out with a picture Quality that is not mind blowing.How is a small movie like Next that didn't make any money in the theaters and Hot fuss can make a movie on hddvd that is better than Transformer pq wise.This does look better than ok but I was expecting something mind blowing like Hot fuss or potc 2

POTC2 had a lot of similar post work, and has all of the things you say you don't like. Maybe movies aren't your thing. Stick to sports, concerts and nature stuff. They will almost always have a shiny, clean look.

Bay like a grainy look to his films, plain and simple. The flesh tones bothered me more than anything in this one, but grain doesn't bother me, especially knowing the style of the director that is involved.

I was reading these posts wondering when someone would mention the flesh tones in this transfer.
I thought they were way over saturated and too "yellow/orange".
Other then that, it looks great (but not as great as Hot Fuzz!!!) :eek:

Oh, I am using a XA2 and Sony SXRD2 60'', ISF calibrated.

I keep meaning to post some screen shots of the film, I have a PC HD DVD drive. If there are any requests for specific shots please give the time frames

I was reading these posts wondering when someone would mention the flesh tones in this transfer.
I thought they were way over saturated and too "yellow/orange".


Bay tends to use the 'orange' flesh tones in most of his flicks. You'll see it in Bad Boys, Armageddon, etc, etc, etc

Bay tends to use the 'orange' flesh tones in most of his flicks. You'll see it in Bad Boys, Armageddon, etc, etc, etc

Yeah, I was wondering if it had something to do with his lighting or filmstock (or whatever). I havent seen Bad Boys, and have only seen Armageddon on network TV :eek:
So I am no judge of Bay's methods.
Artistic choice or not, I still dont like it :p

Maybe he uses an Oompa Loompa as a make-up artist?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/OompaLoompas1971.jpg

Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd but it still doesn't look as good as hot fuss,Next,potc 2,Apocalypto,I just get upset when a movie with such high production comes out with a picture Quality that is not mind blowing.How is a small movie like Next that didn't make any money in the theaters and Hot fuss can make a movie on hddvd that is better than Transformer pq wise.This does look better than ok but I was expecting something mind blowing like Hot fuss or potc 2


So, you are going against every reviewer??

This movie looks better than all the films you described above or just as good other than Apocolypto, which I haven't seen. I wonder how someone can come on here and make a post like this.

Maybe he uses an Oompa Loompa as a make-up artist?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/OompaLoompas1971.jpg

:D :D LOL!!!

Thanks, I needed that!

I agree that this is one of the best HD releases I have ever seen, and I wasn't a fan of the movie when I bought it sight unseen. (I am a fan now!). From sound quality to visuals to extras, this is a must have disc for anyone who likes action movies.

My wife , friend and I had the same observation. I went back and checked the player setup options and realized that the audio compression had not gotten set to off after a recent firmware update. After setting the compression to off the surrounds were much more alive as well in addition to the overall impact of the soundtrack being improved.

Thanks' for the heads up on the compression setting. Setting mine to "OFF" has made a big difference.

I posted this on another forum i visit alot so I am copying and pasting it here. It might help with just my experiece on the difference in sound quality between 1st and 2nd generation HD-DVD players and Transformers.

Okay kids, I think I figured out why some of you are getting poor audio performance. Okay I own a first generation HD player (XA-1) and the 2nd generation (A2) and I can tell you that this problem is strictly limited to the first generation players. Two days ago I tried Transformers on my bedroom system that has the A2 run to my Denon 3808 via HDMI (no optical) and the sound was fantastic, no bass problems whatsoever, got "Multichannel IN' on my Denon display and all was great in my bedroom

Now last night I try Transformers on my main great room system (XA-1 via optical) to my older analog Denon 4802R and sure enough the bass was very lacking and "very anaemic". Okay I thought this can't be right because my main system has the SVS and the two Supercube I's in it. So why is the bass lacking. I switched to Bitstream and on this disc, no sound whatsoever, I mean none, zilch, nada, no matter what I did in bitstream no sound. So i switched to PCM via my multichannel analogs and optical tried both), again very poor bass. I could compensate some by switching to a Prologic mode but I still had to push the volume to +7 (WTF) that is way to high to get mediocre sound.

So I took out my A2 from the bedroom and hooked it up in the main system, via optical, Now with the A2 you can only choose optical or HDMI (no coax which is strange) , I had to use optical (my Denon 4802 has no HDMI) So anyway with optical and set to bitstream, my Denon fired up and I got the DTS-ES signal and the sound and bass was just mind blowing, I'm pretty sure my neighbors hate me (I know my GF does, considering I was doing this at 1 a.m.) But I have to say the bass was just awe-inspring especially the pulse gun to launch over the screaming girl, my pants legs were actually flapping.

So I figure what the problem is that some of you bought the older first generation players and for some reason this movie will not play bitstream 5.1 at all via optical you need to choose PCM or use Multichannel analog and again choose PCM. I am pretty sure it's just this movie, because I have gotten great results with other movies using PCM (but i never choose bitstream via optical on my older HD player, because I liked lossless via analog and just used multi channel analog for DD+ PCM.

Afterwards I decided to put my XA-1 back in my bedroom instead of my A2, so that I wouldnt have to deal with this problem, but now that the older HD player is hooked up to my Denon 3808 via HDMI, I have another problem. Bitstream via HDMI works great for DD+, but Lossless is now lacking. I mean as soon as I select TruHD, the sound drops by about 10db and the mains and surrounds drown out the center big time. I am positive that this is just a problem with the XA-1 using HDMI, because when I had the XA-1 hooked up via multichannel inputs on my older Pioneer, I didn't have this problem at all, unfortunalty, I can't hook up multichannel analogs and HDMI at the same time, because my Denon will revert to HDMI each and everytime. So guess till I upgrade my first generation player to 2nd or above, I have to use DD+ for all my movies, but considering I only have about five movies with this feature, It's something I'm gonna have to live with, bummer though considering I love Lossless. BTW Lossless works great on the A2 via HDMI just not the XA-1.

Hope this explains some of the problems some of you may be having with Transformers and older HD players.

You can't use optical to pass PCS DD+. It doesn't have the bandwidth to do that. I have an HD-A1 and use HDMI to sent the HD audio via decoded LPCM to my receiver. It sounds fantastic, but I'll grant you that Transformers was a little lacking in bass, but not that much. All the other sound including the surrounds was great. I'm interested to see what other people's set-ups were that are saying they had similar bass issues.

Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd but it still doesn't look as good as hot fuss,Next,potc 2,Apocalypto,I just get upset when a movie with such high production comes out with a picture Quality that is not mind blowing.How is a small movie like Next that didn't make any money in the theaters and Hot fuss can make a movie on hddvd that is better than Transformer pq wise.This does look better than ok but I was expecting something mind blowing like Hot fuss or potc 2

What is this "Hot Fuss" you speak of??? Isn't that a Killers album?? That has a great soundtrack but the PQ is just non-existent:D

Matthew B i have to disagree because i was having bass problems with my XA2(2.5) using hdmi out to an integra 9.8... There just didn't seem to be enough bass where you would expect it... I am running a JL fathom 113 in a 2000-2500 cbft room which rocks the house on everything... I just don't know maybe everyone is running there stuff hotter... I just wanna say i still think its a fantastic audio track and was blown away by the audio track in as a whole but i just didn't see the crazy bass everyone else was hearing...

So, you are going against every reviewer??

This movie looks better than all the films you described above or just as good other than Apocolypto, which I haven't seen. I wonder how someone can come on here and make a post like this.I don't have nothing agains this film or hddvd.I'm one of the first owners of the Toshiba hd player.I have been a fan of hddvd from the get go,so please don't make this a bluray hddvd thing.What size screen are you looking at this picture on.I can name you a number of movies that look better Hot Fuzz,Seabisquit,Chronicles of Riddick,Dawn of the dead the newer version,Grand Prix,Swordfish,King kong.My problem is with how important this film is for hddvd and the huge production that they have.I'm sorry for giving my opinion on what I see but I'm just being honest.I do notice that on a 50 inch screen at bestbuy that it does look good.This is why I'm asking what size screen you are using.I also have the same problem with bluray a movie like a day after tomorrow gets 4.5 stars and when I see it it looks average at best.

I have a calibrated system, dual Hsu 1220HO's, and the bass was excellent. The PQ was also excellent. The movie on the other hand was horrible, but in an enjoyable kind of way. But, for me at least, these kinds of stupid movies are like very rich food, enjoyable sure, but I can only take so much in one sitting. So I only watched half the movie today. Looking forward to indulging in the rest of the stupidity tomorrow though.

I keep meaning to post some screen shots of the film, I have a PC HD DVD drive. If there are any requests for specific shots please give the time frames


Tom, how about starting one off with Megan Fox? I'm sure folks will chime in with the times. So far I've only seen it once (Thursday night) and viewed both discs.

That Megan Fox scene is outstanding!

Agreed -- but after watching the extras and having an idea of how she speaks, it seems she's a little on the ditzy side.

That Megan Fox scene is outstanding!

The best special effect in the movie!

OMG, I can't believe there are actually some complaining about the PQ in this movie when it is outstanding. Man, I guess hell really is starting to freeze over :p

OMG, I can't believe there are actually some complaining about the PQ in this movie when it is outstanding. Man, I guess hell really is starting to freeze over :p

I don't think anyone here is "complaining", I think people are just disagreeing with the perfect scores that all the reviews are giving it.

Agreed -- but after watching the extras and having an idea of how she speaks, it seems she's a little on the ditzy side.

I wouldn't want her for her brain :D

This is how Tranformers looks. It looked that way in theaters and it looks that way on HD DVD.True. And while I like this movie, its visual-style leaves a bit to be desired. It looks like it was shot to tape, and it wasn't. They could've saved a bundle in film stock by shooting to tape in the first place.

I don't have nothing agains this film or hddvd.I'm one of the first owners of the Toshiba hd player.I have been a fan of hddvd from the get go,so please don't make this a bluray hddvd thing.What size screen are you looking at this picture on.I can name you a number of movies that look better Hot Fuzz,Seabisquit,Chronicles of Riddick,Dawn of the dead the newer version,Grand Prix,Swordfish,King kong.My problem is with how important this film is for hddvd and the huge production that they have.I'm sorry for giving my opinion on what I see but I'm just being honest.I do notice that on a 50 inch screen at bestbuy that it does look good.This is why I'm asking what size screen you are using.I also have the same problem with bluray a movie like a day after tomorrow gets 4.5 stars and when I see it it looks average at best.
I am watching this on the folowing:

Optoma HD70 fp
Onkyo 805
Tosh a-2
100 inch grey

I think it gets 5 stars PQ wise because overall it is very clean and grainless. To be honest, I have only watched parts of it so after tonite I will give you my opinion of it.:)

I have the A2 running 2.5 firmware and can watch disc one perfectly. Disc 2 tries loading for about 60 seconds and then gives me the "This disc is not DVD format" error.

Seems more and more people are getting this (I bet because most just haven't gotten around to disc two yet).............

Disk two loaded up fine for me. I didn't access any of the content, because I inserted it by accident, meaning to insert the movie disk, but it loaded up fine on my A1.

My copy finally came in from Planet today, and Holy Smokes DWs sooo ripped this movie to shreds it's not even funny. From the lead in menu to the final credits, the PQ and AQ were both phenomenal. Heck, I watched the HUD version back to back and could give a hoot that it was SD. I have to tell you tho if anyone ever says "aeh, upconverted is just as good" again, do us all a favor and shoot 'em.

Reviewed most enthusiastically with:
96" da-mat
Sony Pearl
Sunfire TG3
Carver M200t x 3 (Bridged)
Pathos Classic One (Main)
Magnat Vector 77 (Main)
Magnat Vector 22 (Rear)
Vifa DYI (Cntr)
SVS PB10-NSD (Sub)
Toshiba A2

You can't use optical to pass PCS DD+. It doesn't have the bandwidth to do that. I have an HD-A1 and use HDMI to sent the HD audio via decoded LPCM to my receiver. It sounds fantastic, but I'll grant you that Transformers was a little lacking in bass, but not that much. All the other sound including the surrounds was great. I'm interested to see what other people's set-ups were that are saying they had similar bass issues.

OPtical has plenty of bandwidth for DD+ and even up to 8 channels of 24/48 PCM. No home theater gear has the hardware to do it.

Ok than call it a good transfer from theater to hd ...

Again, wrong. If film was used, and I think it was, it was sent to be digitized immediately and sent for post. The images that you are seeing would have been taken from the digital master that the negatives were shot from and then compressed. Once a film like this leaves analog, it never goes back except for presentation in theaters.

I have the A2 running 2.5 firmware and can watch disc one perfectly. Disc 2 tries loading for about 60 seconds and then gives me the "This disc is not DVD format" error.

Seems more and more people are getting this (I bet because most just haven't gotten around to disc two yet).............

No problems on my A2 with 2.5 firmware. All the features work flawlessly..even the web enabled content.