Well, reason for this thread in pretty clear-excellent review that Altair received by Jeff Fritz at www.ultraaudio.com Some people that I really trust also had a chance to audition Altair at Goodwin's shootout and some High end show in Asia(HK in August 2007). All of them liked Altair very much indeed...

So, let's discuss them here! What amps are most welcome for Altair? Jeff is using Vitus SS-101 and Pass X-600.5 as far as I know...

Is Altair really that good? Specially since it is very expensive but, its price is IMO at not-out-of-reach level(at least for me)...

I spoke to Jeff personally before the review in www.ultraaudio.com was published. He raves about the speaker especially the tweeter and also the way in which the cabinet is built

My good friend and audio buddy here at AVS (grellberg) spent several days last week in Maine with Andy Payor at Rockport and he too was dazzled by the Altair but absolutely speechless about the Arrakis

Thanks OB. Good info...

well I can say that grellberg felt the Arrakis was as good and probably better than the X-2

He also visited Transparent Audio the same weekend and in their listening room they used X-2's with Meitner which he also said was terrific

Regards, Rene

One 'litle' point I hope to hear about:
Effect of the sidewards pointed woofer (c/o @ <120Hz?) on imaginary width of sound stage, a.s.o. In general I have some reservations on this subject.

Hi Rene,

The side-firing woofer is crossed over to the midbass at 80Hz, not 120Hz, at 24dB per octave... just to clarify.

Just got back from hearing X-2s at Transparent and the Altair and Arrakis at Rockport.

The Altairs were in a smaller upstairs room, digital only. They sounded great, and my conclusions were similar to Jeff's and those who did an X-2 comparison at Goodwins-the Altair is more coherent and natural than the X-2. My caveat would be that it's a bit less dynamic and has a smaller soundstage.

I heard the Arrakis in a well constructed 30x22x10 room, with Gryphon electronics and Sirius 3 table.
The Arrakis was just insanely great, it did everything well.
On the same material, they beat my Hyperions and the X-2s in every way-as it should be at $73k and $20k more. Mostly it just sounded more natural and there. If I could figure out how to afford them, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
If you are planning to audition anything over 50k, go hear them at Ultimate Audio or at Rockport.

Feel free to ask specifics, will try to answer if I can.

Just got back from hearing X-2s at Transparent and the Altair and Arrakis at Rockport.

The Altairs were in a smaller upstairs room, digital only. They sounded great, and my conclusions were similar to Jeff's and those who did an X-2 comparison at Goodwins-the Altair is more coherent and natural than the X-2. My caveat would be that it's a bit less dynamic and has a smaller soundstage.

I heard the Arrakis in a well constructed 30x22x10 room, with Gryphon electronics and Sirius 3 table.
The Arrakis was just insanely great, it did everything well.
On the same material, they beat my Hyperions and the X-2s in every way-as it should be at $73k and $20k more. Mostly it just sounded more natural and there. If I could figure out how to afford them, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
If you are planning to audition anything over 50k, go hear them at Ultimate Audio or at Rockport.

Feel free to ask specifics, will try to answer if I can.

well since you and I are neighbors perhaps we should go partners on the speaker;)

We'd need to, as we'd also have to get the bigger Lamms-they are not as efficient as the X-2s.

Well you know that Vladimir offered to bring the ML 3's to Danville for BAAS to audition

Hi Rene,

The side-firing woofer is crossed over to the midbass at 80Hz, not 120Hz, at 24dB per octave... just to clarify.

Thanks Jeff!

You did not write in your review about Altairs pretty wide sweet spot. It is as I heard much wider then on some competitiors...
Also can you share with us your experince about amps? I now that you are using Vitus SS-101 and have Pass X-600.5 currently on review... Is Vitus SS-101 powerfull enough for Altairs, specially in class A mode?

Just got back from hearing X-2s at Transparent and the Altair and Arrakis at Rockport.

The Altairs were in a smaller upstairs room, digital only. They sounded great, and my conclusions were similar to Jeff's and those who did an X-2 comparison at Goodwins-the Altair is more coherent and natural than the X-2. My caveat would be that it's a bit less dynamic and has a smaller soundstage.

I heard the Arrakis in a well constructed 30x22x10 room, with Gryphon electronics and Sirius 3 table.
The Arrakis was just insanely great, it did everything well.
On the same material, they beat my Hyperions and the X-2s in every way-as it should be at $73k and $20k more. Mostly it just sounded more natural and there. If I could figure out how to afford them, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
If you are planning to audition anything over 50k, go hear them at Ultimate Audio or at Rockport.

Feel free to ask specifics, will try to answer if I can.

What electronics were used in Altairs room?

Hi Grellberg, I'm happy that you share your experience with us. Thank you!

You make bold statements about the Arrakis! But that was what I was asking for, so thank you!

You offer me to ask specifics, but honnestly it is hard to think of what to ask. IMO the Alexandria (mk1) was the ultimate so far. So comparing the Rockport's pros/cons with these X-2s is what is my personal reference. Can you say something more about it? Just in 1Q2008 I hope to be able to listen myself to ALTAIR. So if you can share what you heard please continue, particular on ARRAKIS since not too much info is available on the www.

For example you say: "My caveat would be that it's a bit less dynamic and has a smaller soundstage." That smaller soundstage was due to the sidewards woofers?

Ciao!

grellberg has sent a letter to www.ultraaudio.com which should be up on the site very soon as per Jeff Fritz

I heard the Altairs with an Aesthetix preamp and Gryphon stereo amp. All Transparent cables. Hadn't heard of the cd player, it was Greek and Greek to me. The system was terrific, but not just nuts like the one downstairs-where everything was better-room, source, electronics, and speakers. I'm sure the Altair would shine even more in this setting, but the ease and scale of the Arrakis is better than anything I've heard. One exception might be the Magico horns, which are 300k :eek:.

Both times I've heard the Altair I noticed nothing wider than normal on sweet spot, but I know the tweeter is pretty smooth off axis, so tonal balance stays similar.
But imaging is always best in proper seat. Woofers appear to be crossed over low enough that side firing is not an issue (but hard to do a proper a/b without a lot of sawing and modifying). I don't think it adds or subtracts from soundstage, but I assume focus is better with a narrower profile.

The X-2 is bigger and as one would expect, throws a bigger stage. However, the X-2s and X-1s tend to always stage this way, so it is not clearly better (transparent to the source). I tend to not care that much, as most speakers imaging is much smaller than life. Also, the larger surface area of the drivers gives a bit more ease. But the integration, coherency, and naturalness are all superior on the Altair. They dissapear as a source better. Going to the Arrakis gives you both. As I said, go hear them if you are pursuing something at this level. The more familiar I was with source material, the more I was impressed.

Thanks also to Ron Rambach of Musicmattersjazz.com for the test pressings-if you haven't signed up yet for the new Blue Note 45's, do so. They sound amazing, and will sell out fast.

Hi

At that level moves should be deliberate. I have been thinking for a while to upgrade speakers... It is dawning on me that I will have to spend in term of MSRP upward of 40 K.
At that level resides a few speakers that have ardent defenders...

The Rockport ALTAIR seems to be from all account an extraordinary speaker... Is there anyone here that could compare it to the VR-9? ... I admit having been blown away by what I heard from the VR-7 recently... My friend who was auditioning them has decided to go for the VR-9 to stop this maddening upright spiral (VR-4, then 5, now 7 and wanting more)...
The VR-9 seems to be this kind of Elite speaker then there is the, Altair, Magico 6... and the Evolutions Acoustics MTM-3 ... Interesting time for once in High End Audio... ... Is there someone here with some familiarity with all these? Altair, VR-9, MTM-3, Magico 6

I hope this is not OT...

The Arrakis were 40% out into the room, so about 12 ft. My best guess is that they were about 13 ft apart and 15 ft from the listener, but that's a guess. A lot would depend on the actual room as Rockport is heavily damped
and diffused on the side with considerable bass trapping as well.

All wire was Transparent Opus.

I think the Vtl would be great, the Vtl 750 is still one of my favorite amps.
I think big tube power would be the best way to go, although I suspect the Gryphon is the best SS amp going (I'm trusting my friends who have compared it to other SS contenders). It was liquid and gutsy.

Frantz, I've only heard and examined the VS speakers at shows, and never heard the EAs. HOWEVER, I can attest that Andy Payor at Rockport and Alon Wolf at Magico both will inspire extreme pride of ownership and the more you find out about why they do some of the things they do, examine their workmanship, and see things like their custom made drivers you might find your choices narrowed. These two things especially-cabinet and drivers, seem to set them apart from the pack, even at these lofty prices.

I noted your comment about interesting times.

I actually long for the days when reading TAS and particularly HP was
exciting. They no longer have the courage, market power, or inclination to
do surveys and proclaim winners. We're left with Hansens and five million Alon Exotica update articles. Two writers a month tout the best cd player-ever heard of fed ex and 2 inputs?
Between OB, myself, and a few pals, there's more high end fun locally than
anywhere I know of.

I noted your comment about interesting times.

I actually long for the days when reading TAS and particularly HP was
exciting. They no longer have the courage, market power, or inclination to
do surveys and proclaim winners. We're left with Hansens and five million Alon Exotica update articles. Two writers a month tout the best cd player-ever heard of fed ex and 2 inputs?
Between OB, myself, and a few pals, there's more high end fun locally than
anywhere I know of.

So true.. I remember vividly waiting for my TAS copies, early to late 80's, in their "no advertising" accepted days... These days are so long gone...

www.flexunits.com/

Anyone know which drivers specifically they use?

It does use the Scan-Speak newest Ring Radiator tweeter.

www.flexunits.com/

Anyone know which drivers specifically they use?

It does use the Scan-Speak newest Ring Radiator tweeter.

No. Altair and Arrakis include Andy Payor designed and Rockport made carbon-fibre sandwich-composite cones which are then shipped to Denmark and assembled at Audiotechnology(with Audiotechnology motor systems). So, bass, midbass and midrange drivers are pretty unique. They are used only in Altair and Arrakis. Tweeter is latest D30 Ring Radiator. Crossover use 24db/Octave slopes.

All in all if you include pretty unique cabinet as well you get technological tour de force IMHO...

No. Altair and Arrakis include Andy Payor designed and Rockport made carbon-fibre sandwich-composite cones which are then shipped to Denmark and assembled at Audiotechnology(with Audiotechnology motor systems).

Ok, but the cones are not going to make a huge difference since it all comes down to the motor system, I will agree that the cabinet looks nice and is probably 50-75% of the cost of the speaker.

Anyone with any experience of these matters care to comment on Arrakis or X-2 compared to full Pipdreams system? I have an older "Reference 21" Pipedreams system (with 4 subwoofer cylinders) and am thinking of making a change in the interest of increased resolution. Obviously, behemoths like Arrakis, X-2, etc. are very hard to compare in one's room. Impossible, really -- so anyone's comments on this would be hugely appreciated.

My very good friend who lives in Dallas has the largest Pipedream speakers and has heard my system (X-2's). He has had to resort to a TacT in order to best tweak his system and he also just added a pair of the JL Audio g213 Gotham subs because he wasn't happy with his bottom end output. If that tells you anything.......then :)

Hi,
I had the 21s with 1 set of subs. In my room, the transparency, bass and midbass quality, and accuracy
of staging are all bettered by the Arrakis and the X-2.
I do not think there is any area you would not hear an improvement.

Hi,
I had the 21s with 1 set of subs. In my room, the transparency, bass and midbass quality, and accuracy
of staging are all bettered by the Arrakis and the X-2.
I do not think there is any area you would not hear an improvement.

Grellberg

I remember being extremely impressed by the Pipedreams imaging "palpability", that was a few years ago... you mentioned the Arakis and the X-2..How would the Altair compare in those parameters?

Rene-L

I have posted about this very phenomenon a while back, I also believe that High Efficiency speakers provide the best reproduction of "micro-dynamics" ... Playing loud is a matter of power handling, so even low efficiency can play loud if given sufficient power and can accept the power (e.g. the old Apogee Full Range, the Diva or even the Scintillaa which with the required complement of Krell KRS or KMA would run you out of huge room)... Proper dynamics reproduction is not very common.. Wilson and Von Shweikert are the first to come to mind for cones (dynamic , non-horn speakers)in that department and a few others ( usually in the >90dB sensitivity range...)... Horns are king in this department...
More questions for Grellberg: How do the Rockport speakers compare?

I tend to hear the same thing, that horns and high efficiency speakers usually excel in micro and macro stuff.
But these new designs break that paradigm for me.

In terms of micro dynamics, the Magico Ultimates (horns)are king of anything I've heard. They are just scary better than anything else.

However, other than these, the Arrakis and Magico 6 are better than anything else I've heard in micro and macro-and I'm including the Trios and Wilsons-despite their lower efficiency. My best guess is that the cones react that much more accurately, and the boxes contribute that much less, than anything else out there.

I really encourage anyone in this price range to just go to Goodwins (for the Magico and Rockports-no Wilson there anymore though!) or to Singer's for the Magicos. My understanding is that they consider even the entry model Magico V3 the best speaker in the store.

OT

Are you guys on the West Coast.. OK.. OB, Grellberg, etc...? I tried to send an e-mail to OB (private e-mail address) and it was returned...

Sorry...

I will delete this post if there is any reply...

Frantz

Grelllberg ansd I are neighbors

I sent you my new e-mail address by way of PM