OK bear with me. I just picked up the U2 R&H HD-DVD because I remember how much I loved to use that LD to show off audio. Specifically the "With or Without You" track. As the song builds the snare drum comes in with a mighty kick that always 'wowed' whoever was receiving the demo. So granted it's been a long time since I fired up the LD but I can remember that track pretty vividly. So I pop in the HD-DVD, go to the DTS 6.1 and was immediately very disappointed. Horrible. Not close. So I try the DD+. Same or worse. (this is through a Denon 3805 as a pre/pro, into over 1,000 watts of Rotel amps & Paradigm Reference speaks) So then I bypassed the 3805 room EQ/Digital outs and went ext/analog and the DD+ had a huge improvement. Not great but much better. Then I switched to DTS 6.1 through external/analog and BLAMMO!! There's that great ol' LD audio. 4th attemp is the charm. Found the magic combination. If I was smarter I would have gone right to that set-up, but.......Anyway, yes the video is nothing to show off HD with but the audio & performance definitely make it a keeper. And at $13 this week at Fry's a no-brainer.

Ok. So i stay with my LD version then.

...So granted it's been a long time since I fired up the LD but I can remember that track pretty vividly...

Audio memory is actually very inaccurate and should not be relied on. You are actually judging how it sound compared to other sources and the equipment played on at the time.

Might be something to do with the Denon room EQ as this HD-DVD DTS 6.1 track sounds Unreal (in a good way) using HDMI out of my Onkyo 885. One of the best I have heard.

Yes, yes, yes!
A BIG thx.
I believe in going back to previous formats to check quality.
Was a BIG fan of D-VHS because it set a standard for Home Video HD.

I was going to pick this title up a Fry's yesterday; they were out.
Don't expect much from the video; just going for the audio upgrade.

Thanks, again!

Audio memory is actually very inaccurate and should not be relied on. You are actually judging how it sound compared to other sources and the equipment played on at the time.

Agree whole-heartidly (Apocolypse Now on LD with subs & rears cranked through the roof before decent calibration was quite a room shaker! Plus we were listening to straight PCM audio decoded by pro-logic in most cases) but this is a little different. I'm more of an audio geek than a video geek so I can do the goosebump test so to speak. It's not quite the same as explosions and gunfire. Music to me there are fine lines between being hard to listen to, good, great unreal etc. Sure memory is a bit selective but my original post is pretty accurate.

Yeah, the room EQ may be the problem.

Although different from the EQ system in your receiver, I know that the Audyssey EQ in my Denon AVR-4306 (which I use as a pre/pro) has undesirable effects on high and low frequencies. In response to my findings, I simply made adjustments to my theater room and bypassed room EQ altogether. The quality is MUCH better with it bypassed in my particular setup.

Well, I tell you what--I own this on BD, and just going from the DD on the SD-DVD to the FULL BITRATE DTS core part of the audio on BD was a big jump. (over digital optical) Larger, deeper dynamic range. Very nice.

This is my #1 favorite video disc of all time. Personally, I love "Bad" and the way it flows into "Streets" and such. Can't wait to hear it in any of the HD audio streams, even just DTS-HD.

Thinking about buying this on HD-DVD as well, just because I like it so much. I think it's good that it's still grainy video, (and black and white) because it's artistic. Heck, I guess the grain's clearer in HD! Too bad the video doesn't really exemplify fine video like the audio does, though.

This was the U2 I loved. Frozen in time never to be repeated on R&H. A sweet testament to the Joshua Tree and the magic that U2 had at the time!

I don't know where the OP is coming from, but this is hands-down one of the best sounding HD discs I've heard just coming from the DTS core. The 6.1 is utterly immersive and places you square in the front rows of the show. Dynamics are bombastic and subtleties shine through as well. I was overjoyed at hearing this disc when I first got it because I can't imagine the movie sounding any better. I used to push it as a recommendation for concert discs, but got slammed because people complained of the grain in the picture. It doesn't bother me- it looks as good as it did in the theater back in 1988.

I have been known to throw this movie in just to hear that performance of 'Exit' with the lines from Van Morrison's 'Gloria' thrown in at the end. Great stuff.

I have been known to throw this movie in just to hear that performance of 'Exit' with the lines from Van Morrison's 'Gloria' thrown in at the end. Great stuff.

The floor toms sound great!

The floor toms sound great!

You got that right!

This disc sounds amazing. I don't know how anyone could complain about the incredible audio on this disc. It blew me away the first time I heard it.

There is no way the LD sounds this good. It doesn't have the bandwidth.

DANG!!!
Could people read B4 they post?!?!?!
...Then I switched to DTS 6.1 through external/analog and BLAMMO!! There's that great ol' LD audio. 4th attemp is the charm. Found the magic combination. If I was smarter I would have gone right to that set-up, but.......Anyway, yes the video is nothing to show off HD with but the audio & performance definitely make it a keeper. And at $13 this week at Fry's a no-brainer.

:rolleyes:

This disc sounds amazing. I don't know how anyone could complain about the incredible audio on this disc. It blew me away the first time I heard it.

There is no way the LD sounds this good. It doesn't have the bandwidth.

i have to check but wasn't the LD in AC-3 ?

i now have this movie in VHS LD DVD and now hd-dvd (netflix rental)

on the dvd in dolby digital during the song bad when bono hit's the part "i'm not sleeping" adam hits a bass note and is powerful low and clean and dominates the entire stadium each time that part is hit

i don't have a hdmi receiver yet so i could only hear the downmixed optical out and the stereo analog out from my new a2

something is wrong with this new mix. that bass note is now over exaggerated and harsh and it doesn't seem to be mixed well, it doesn't even blend with the rest of the song almost like it was artificially added to the song. same thing with "streets" right after it

on the dvd in DD the bass is powerful clean and well blended but not on the hd-dvd

maybe 7.1 is better, i hope

i also do not think the grainy picture is "artistic", i just think it's a lazy and horrible transfer from video, not mastered from the original film print

you would think black and white film from 1988 transfered to HD would be superb.........NOT

anyone have this hd-dvd with good subs and 7.1 hdmi ? let me know how the bass in bad sounds to you

then compare it to the dvd dolby digital mix

by the way, is this hd-dvd out of print now? i only see it listed as "used" at amazon and they usually have all the current media

This disc sounds amazing. I don't know how anyone could complain about the incredible audio on this disc. It blew me away the first time I heard it.

There is no way the LD sounds this good. It doesn't have the bandwidth.

You're saying that dual channel 48KHz 16bit PCM doesn't have the bandwidth? You're out of your mind! LD PCM sound provides some of the best quality sound available to the consumer -- don't put it down just because you're not familiar with it!

LD didn't support 48khz PCM, it was 44.1khz [same as CD], nothing to write home about in today's standard.

LD didn't support 48khz PCM, it was 44.1khz [same as CD], nothing to write home about in today's standard.

For me, it's the analog tracks on Laserdiscs that sound great, something that none of the digital formats can touch (including TrueHD). Two especially outstanding titles were Jurasic Park and Heat (the one with Al Pacino). I hope that when these 2 are finally released in HDM that the audio quality are at least somewhat close in quality to the LDs.

There is no way the LD sounds this good. It doesn't have the bandwidth.

I hate to pile on but sometimes implementation is more important than spec's. It's a really good sounding LD.

For me, it's the analog tracks on Laserdiscs that sound great, something that none of the digital formats can touch (including TrueHD). Two especially outstanding titles were Jurasic Park and Heat (the one with Al Pacino). I hope that when these 2 are finally released in HDM that the audio quality are at least somewhat close in quality to the LDs.

I revisted my Japanese Muse LD of Jurassic Park recently. It's audio is a few noches past even the various NTSC LD's. I can almost hear T-rex now!

Actually NTSC LD was 44056hz PCM, not 44100. PAL got 44100 hz though. Limitation of the technology and available bandwidth from the disc.

See section 2.3.2 of the LaserDisc FAQ: http://www.blam1.com/LaserDisc/FAQ/

I agree, the sound is excellent, but I think people put the video down too much. Sure, the documentary parts are very grainy - the result of lesser quality film cameras; but the live concert footage looks very good considering its age and the low light levels. I think there is less grain on this disc than 300, which looks really messed up. I have no complaints about the video quality of this release.

Mark

For me, it's the analog tracks on Laserdiscs that sound great, something that none of the digital formats can touch (including TrueHD). Two especially outstanding titles were Jurasic Park and Heat (the one with Al Pacino). I hope that when these 2 are finally released in HDM that the audio quality are at least somewhat close in quality to the LDs.

Analog audio on LD is below VHS [Hi-fi], any more bunnies under your sleeve? :D



http://www.blam1.com/LaserDisc/FAQ/FAQ_intro.htm#AdvantagesAudioAnalog

Analog on LD may be slightly less robust than VHS Hi-Fi, but it won't degrade like VHS, and won't gain background static etc over time.

Analog on LD may be slightly less robust than VHS Hi-Fi, but it won't degrade like VHS, and won't gain background static etc over time.


The point is, both are quiet below to today's standards like BD or HD DVD. End of story!

I just recieved Rattle and Hum as part of my 5 free discs deal and watched the whole thing last night. The DTS track sounded great through my A2 with the optical out. Much better than the SD-DVD DD track. I still own the LD but never had the equipment to do souround sound with LD so I can't compare that.

The scenes with the added grain look scary bad (not as bad with the SD-DVD) but the other scenes look very good in Hi Def.

This film deserved a lossless track no doubt however I am not dissapointed with my copy (especally being free)...

Analog audio on LD is below VHS [Hi-fi]

My laserdisc was hooked up to the AVR using the left and right RCA cables, and I was getting Dolby Pro-Logic processing to give me the surround effects. Does that mean I was listening to the anaglog tracks, or was the player doing some kind of internal conversion from PCM?

Why did we give up the A/V perfection that was called LD?

The point is, both are quiet below to today's standards like BD or HD DVD. End of story!

No, it's not. The audio capabilities on LD have never been surpassed. Have you heard the AC-3 tracks on very late discs such as X-MEN or THE 6TH DAY? AC-3 on LD blows away the HD sound formats. This is not even mentioning the capabilities of DTS laserdiscs. I could go into more detail, but I fully agree with the person who said that there's more than specs. I have a massive LD collection and I watch them every day; to me, it was a great format for the audio capabilities alone.

No, it's not. The audio capabilities on LD have never been surpassed. Have you heard the AC-3 tracks on very late discs such as X-MEN or THE 6TH DAY? AC-3 on LD blows away the HD sound formats. This is not even mentioning the capabilities of DTS laserdiscs. I could go into more detail, but I fully agree with the person who said that there's more than specs. I have a massive LD collection and I watch them every day; to me, it was a great format for the audio capabilities alone. The only thing is being blown away is last shred of evidence, that you're even remotely know what you're talking about.

I used to be an avid LD collector, so I really don't have to rely on nostalgic anecdotes.
Of course there is no different implementation of Dolby for instance which is even more compressed on LD then on DVD but it is the same thing as far as the codec is concerned.If you think that is better then uncompressed MCH discrete sound that is on HDMs, then you need serious help from an ear doctor. The most notable and only difference is really the fact that LD's used the theatrical mixes, compared to most DVDs which have "nearfield" mixes. If you preffer the LD mix so be it, but it has nothing to do with the format.


But in any case my comment was really about the analog sound another poster brought up.

My laserdisc was hooked up to the AVR using the left and right RCA cables, and I was getting Dolby Pro-Logic processing to give me the surround effects. Does that mean I was listening to the anaglog tracks, or was the player doing some kind of internal conversion from PCM?


You have to select the analog chanels manually. Most likely you were listening of the digital sound. Yes your player does have DA converters just like CD players. If your LD player has a digital output use that, and if you have DPLII on your AVR that would be even better compared to the old DPL.

The artwork on LD are better than the newer formats. Thats about it!

I must be doing something wrong. I have my HD-A30 hooked up via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V1700 and I've selected the 6.1 DTS mix, but the Yamaha is still saying it's only getting a 5.1 signal. Is the A30 incapable of sending a 6.1 mix over HDMI?

I must be doing something wrong. I have my HD-A30 hooked up via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V1700 and I've selected the 6.1 DTS mix, but the Yamaha is still saying it's only getting a 5.1 signal. Is the A30 incapable of sending a 6.1 mix over HDMI?

From what I have read on this forum the A35 is the only player to properly decode 6.1 audio from HD-DVD's. However many processors can decode the back channels and properly output 6.1 audio...

I must be doing something wrong. I have my HD-A30 hooked up via HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V1700 and I've selected the 6.1 DTS mix, but the Yamaha is still saying it's only getting a 5.1 signal. Is the A30 incapable of sending a 6.1 mix over HDMI?

Does it say "DTS ES" ? Maybe it's not flagged correctly?

I played this on my XA2 and because I set the SPDIF to PCM it upconverts it to PCM 24/96 [5.1] through HDMI. A known weird feature of this machine.
If I leave that in "bitstream" I would get "DTS" only since I only use a 5.1 speaker set up.

You have to select the analog chanels manually. Most likely you were listening of the digital sound. Yes your player does have DA converters just like CD players. If your LD player has a digital output use that, and if you have DPLII on your AVR that would be even better compared to the old DPL.

Thanks, this is beginning to make sense. Since my laserdisc player did not have digital output, I was listening to 44/16 PCM (lossless). So my insistence that LDs sounded way better than DD on SD-DVDs makes sense, and that for about 10 years we took a step backwards SQ-wise.

Today we can have 48/16 or 48/24 lossless, so in theory lossless audio today should improve on LDs. However, whether 48/16 or 48/24 lossy is better than LD's 44/16 lossless is debatable?

I know this is an oversimplication, but big-picture wise, does this make sense?

Thanks, this is beginning to make sense. Since my laserdisc player did not have digital output, I was listening to 44/16 PCM (lossless). So my insistence that LDs sounded way better than DD on SD-DVDs makes sense, and that for about 10 years we took a step backwards SQ-wise.

Today we can have 48/16 or 48/24 lossless, so in theory lossless audio today should improve on LDs. However, whether 48/16 or 48/24 lossy is better than LD's 44/16 lossless is debatable?

I know this is an oversimplication, but big-picture wise, does this make sense?

I would take a 96/24 DTS 5.1 (lossy) soundtrack over a 2 channel 44/16 pcm (lossless) everyday of the week.