So, here is the story. I have cable TV, and want to roll my own DVR. I bought the Miglia TVMini HD, because B&H's website said it did ATSC, QAM, and analog. I know now that it does not do analog. But, I try plugging it into my cable service, and EyeTV picked up 17 channels, some of which are audio, and some of which are HD, even though I have analog cable service.

Aha! I say, and call up Charter. I ask what the cost is to receive digital cable. Five dollars more, they say. I ask if I will receive all the same channels I do already. Yes, they say. And these will be digital? Yes, they say.

Today, the techs drop of a digital/analog converter box for my old tv. And what does the Miglia find now that I pay for "digital cable"? No additional channels!

I call Charter, and they confirm that their entire basic and expanded service is still analog, even though I was told the exact opposite previously. So what am I paying for after ordering "digital cable"? About 24 all-digital channels, such as Great American Country, VH-1 Soul, and three flavors of Nickelodeon. The rest will be analog until the mandated date.

So, what do I do? Are there QAM/analog tuners that support HD as well? Should I return the Miglia and get something else? Keep what I have and put this project aside until February '09? Should I return the Mac Mini I ordered for this purpose, and get the next one next year?

Arrrrrgh!! Help!! Kaaaahhhhn!!

~Jeremy

I understand the frustration, but you're all over the map here. I'll try to address what I know to help out.

1. The Miglia TVmini HD only does ATSC/QAM, and is therefore a digital-only device. I checked B&H's website and couldn't even find it on there. If they truly misled you, you might want to get your money back.

2. As you found out, when you connected the Miglia to your Charter coax connection, you were able to get about 17 channels. Typically, cable companies leave the HD locals in clearQAM and a few other SD-digital channels. All others are encrypted and won't be viewable without a STB.

3. If you want to record analog channels as well, you'll need a tuner that also includes NTSC. Miglia has announce the TV miniHD+, but it's been 10 months and nothing yet. Right now, there's nothing that has all 3 tuners, however, Pinnacle has announced something called the Ultimate stick, but it's not known if it works on Macs.

4. As for the upgrade to Digital ($5), you won't be able to record any of those channels that are watchable using the STB, but not the Miglia. CAVEAT - if you really wanted, you could take the output of the STB and feed it via s-video or composite to the TVminiHD, provide the Miglia accepts analog inputs. I'm not sure.

ft

Thanks for the info. One of my biggest concerns is what you said about cable and QAM. Are you saying that the majority of digital cable channels are encrypted? In other words, a device like the TVMini (ATSC/QAM only) would be nearly useless even after 02/2009? I thought it was only the premium channels that were encrypted. This leads me to ask: even in a totally digital cable area, is no one making their own DVR?

I was trying to accomplish two tasks: First, to have subscriptionless DVD functionality. Second, to stream video to a laptop, because I do some work here and there around the house and would like a mobile TV. So it seemed that as long as I was willing to get a server computer, I could do both. Of course a Slingbox could do the second task. And I could buy a DVD recorder with hard drive. Unfortunately, very few of those record in HD. It seemed like EyeTV was pretty adequate.

Jeremy

Thanks for the info. One of my biggest concerns is what you said about cable and QAM. Are you saying that the majority of digital cable channels are encrypted? In other words, a device like the TVMini (ATSC/QAM only) would be nearly useless even after 02/2009? I thought it was only the premium channels that were encrypted. This leads me to ask: even in a totally digital cable area, is no one making their own DVR?
Jeremy

I don't know about Charter, but Comcast encrypts everything except local stations. It's a way to force you into renting a cable box from them. They would encrypt the locals to if they weren't forbidden to do so.

Thanks. And is this where Cable Card comes in? to authorize you to watch encrypted content?

Thanks for the info. One of my biggest concerns is what you said about cable and QAM. Are you saying that the majority of digital cable channels are encrypted? In other words, a device like the TVMini (ATSC/QAM only) would be nearly useless even after 02/2009? I thought it was only the premium channels that were encrypted. This leads me to ask: even in a totally digital cable area, is no one making their own DVR? Yes, the majority of digital channels are encrypted. Legally, the only digital channels they are required to pass clearQAM are the locals (note - there is disagreement as to whether the local-HD channels are required versus just passing a SD-local). In Philly (actually the suburbs), I get the 7 locals and UniversalHD in clearQAM. There are a few other digital SD stations that are clearQAM, but my Sony DVR has analog, so it's moot.

While no one can see into the future, I suspect the 2/09 cut-off will have very little affect on home-brew DVRs, when used with cable.

I was trying to accomplish two tasks: First, to have subscriptionless DVD functionality. Second, to stream video to a laptop, because I do some work here and there around the house and would like a mobile TV. So it seemed that as long as I was willing to get a server computer, I could do both. Of course a Slingbox could do the second task. And I could buy a DVD recorder with hard drive. Unfortunately, very few of those record in HD. It seemed like EyeTV was pretty adequate.

JeremyEyeTV is pretty good. The only problem is encrypted digital channels. Right now, there's no Mac solution for recording encrypted digital channels. In fact, there's no cheap/good WinPC way to do it either, short of purchasing a new WinPC that's certified to work with a CableCard. They're expensive.

As for your other question as to what a cablecard is ... It's basically a card that connects to a tuner device that allows for decrypting the encrypted channels. The cable company provides the cards and depending on your service tier, it "unlocks" those channels. The problem is that very few devices are CableCard ready (for reasons that will go un-explained). There are no Mac/CableCard devices.

ft

The 2/09 cut-off only applies to OTA broadcasts and not cable. The 2/09 cut-off is also an analog to digital conversion, and does not have anything to do with HD. I would assume that cable will migrate most of their analog channels over to digital by that same time.

Are you saying that the majority of digital cable channels are encrypted?

Yes, this isn't news. ftaok's done a good job filling you in. That's why you can only watch "digital cable" through the cable-supplied STB, DVR or device w/ CableCard and not when you just have the coax connected to your TV.

In other words, a device like the TVMini (ATSC/QAM only) would be nearly useless even after 02/2009?

Not true, the devices that'll be worthless are those without ATSC and QAM. Something that can do ATSC and QAM will continue to be very useful--ATSC means you can record high def right out of the air with an antenna for free (you could be doing that now) and QAM means you should be able to record the "locals," the national networks. Very few cable providers mess with these in clear QAM, and those that do do so at their own peril, because eventually competition will open up more options.

As long as most of what you want to watch and record is network high def--and not channels like ESPN-HD, TNT-HD, Discovery et al--you should be able to do what you're planning to do, inexpensively. You actually gain nothing by paying for digital cable in terms of what you can record with the Mac and EyeTV: you'd be able to record QAM right over the plain old basic cable coax lines, and, of course, ATSC with an antenna.

This leads me to ask: even in a totally digital cable area, is no one making their own DVR?

I make my own "DVR" with two EyeTV500s. It's just I only record 7 QAM channels with them. (If Comcast ever took QAM locals away I'd just go ATSC.) Good thing for me that what my wife and I like a lot of network programming. Have you seen the quality of 'Pushing Daisies' in HD? Now, I don't technically get "digital cable" from Comcast and don't pay for any premium channels--we just pay an extra $5 a month or so for an STB and the non-premium HD tier. That way we get HD on Demand, and can watch things like 'Mad Men' in HD instead of in SD on AMC. And while I can't use the Mac/EyeTV combo to record something like 'Battlestar Galactica' on UHD or 'The Closer' in HD on TNT-HD, I can at least watch it live in HD (or later if the show is archived in on demand.) (Now, as a complete aside, depending on your cable provider and their STB/software version, you MAY still be able to record these high def channels over firewire with your Mac and/or a DVHS deck, when you can't with your EyeTV/Miglia device. But that's a completely different technique. I mention it only to let you know some of us who do the "Mac DVR" thing ALSO use other methods and devices as well. In addition to the dual 500s I also have an LG 3410A and a JVC DVHS deck.)

It's a juggling act, but the alternatives are far worse (Windows, even more encryption, proprietary file formats, restricted storage space, file movement and archiving, finicky CableCards, Dishes with HD Lite, Tivo, even more service fees and on and on) and the few shows that I'd like to see that I don't have access to, things like The Wire or Dexter or Sleeper Cell, I'll wait for them to come out on dvd. That's because we like network stuff and have plenty of movies to go through on dvd anyway. YMMV.

Thanks for all the input; I appreciate it. To summarize, the best answer seems to be to get a Tivo or Charter DVR, and get a Slingbox to watch TV around the house. Anything else would be either restrictive or more expensive. Does this make sense?

Or one could wait until after 2/09; Charter said they would be all-digital by then, and there may be new products.

EDIT: The previous response was written as I wrote the above. What you say is true; but the one thing we don't watch IS network; we watch mostly NGC, FoodTV, Commedy central, Discovery, and Spike. Also, we are in a pretty mountainous area, and we can't find a single ATSC station.

To summarize, the best answer seems to be to get a Tivo or Charter DVR, and get a Slingbox to watch TV around the house. Anything else would be either restrictive or more expensive. Does this make sense?

Again, it all depends on how you prioritize things: 1) your budget 2) what you want to watch and 3) if you want to archive anything (i.e. move to a hard drive and keep.) There's no right answer--some folks like the HD Tivo, especially the software, they get their CableCards to work with it, and don't mind the service fee and content restrictions; some other folks don't mind a Charter DVR with rudimentary software and even more restrictions; others, like me, wouldn't get near either device with a ten foot pole. There won't be a "best" answer in general--it'll only matter what's best for you and your unique situation--channels you like, where you live, your providers, etc.

You should have fun Slingboxing high def around the house. I prefer gigabit.

Slingbox'ing content around the house is not much of an option at the moment as it requires that you have a computer at each display point. Sling has announced a product, much like AppleTV, that will be able to capture Slingbox content and display it on a TV, but it has yet to see the light of day. Should be here before the year is out. I also believe that all Sling products currently downconvert HD to SD before broadcasting. Which may or may not be an adequate solution for you, altough a clean SD feed looks very good.

but the one thing we don't watch IS network; we watch mostly NGC, FoodTV, Comedy central, Discovery, and Spike. Also, we are in a pretty mountainous area, and we can't find a single ATSC station

well, then I think you've come to the right conclusions, none of these EyeTV/Miglia type devices will be worth it. You're on the right track looking at those other options, Jeremy. It's too bad you didn't come here pre-purchase and we could have saved you the hassle of now having to return the Miglia.

I would really have loved to watch Spike's 'Kill Point' in HD, but that wasn't in the cards. It was one of the very rare things I actually was willing to watch in SD. Good luck figuring things out, we all have different environments we have to overcome.

Thanks, I appreciate that. But it is not a really big deal to return the Miglia; I just spoke with B&H, and they are a great company.

I'll have to tackle the problems separately. I can live without the DVR for a while. Incidentally, what about all the digital TVs for sale now? Do they all have CableCards? Or will they all have to be used with a cable box from each provider?

On the second front, what would be your suggestion to get TV onto my laptop? Or should I just wire a TV into my kitchen, for instance?

As an aside, would any of these problems be made better by ditching cable and getting a satellite service? One that has a receiver that could be used with some EyeTV-like device for capture and streaming?

Here's what I do...

Get Comcast Internet and Limited Basic cable (SD/HD locals only). Even though I can get all of the locals OTA, I still use Comcast since it's essentially free with the multiple service discount. I don't have to worry about an antenna and so far i've never had a service interruption.

Use Miglia TV Mini HD w/ EyeTV as a DVR for the HD locals.

For the handful of cable network shows that I like, I get them from iTunes.

I save so much more money this way. I spend about $120 a year on iTunes content. By only having the locals, I've broken even by the third month of the year of not having a higher cable package. After the third month, it's about $50 a month savings. Also, the iTunes content looks better on my 1080p TV than the SD channels from Comcast.

Just another alternative...