Sorry if this is old news but I see a lot of posts recently describing image retention incorrectly.

Image retention: This is caused by a change in the residual charge left in the plasma cell after extended periods of low or high brightness relative to other cells. The technical reason is that the cell efficiency changes with overuse by increasing the probability of discharge relative to other less used cells. This will leave a temporary ghost image that can be removed by using a full white screen that over time will equalize the wall charge in all cells.

Burn-In: This is uneven phosphor aging caused by keeping portions of the screen at high brightness for extended periods of time. Burn-in in general is not "temporary" and is considered physical damage to the phosphor itself. Thankfully, it is extremely hard to burn in a modern plasma display (equal to CRT burn-in resistance) and should not be an issue. If you've owned a CRT just treat your plasma the same in this regards.

Cheers

Sorry if this is old news but I see a lot of posts recently describing image retention incorrectly.

Image retention: This is caused by a change in the residual charge left in the plasma cell after extended periods of low or high brightness relative to other cells. The technical reason is that the cell efficiency changes with overuse by increasing the probability of discharge relative to other less used cells. This will leave a temporary ghost image that can be removed by using a full white screen that over time will equalize the wall charge in all cells.

Burn-In: This is uneven phosphor aging caused by keeping portions of the screen at high brightness for extended periods of time. Burn-in in general is not "temporary" and is considered physical damage to the phosphor itself. Thankfully, it is extremely hard to burn in a modern plasma display (equal to CRT burn-in resistance) and should not be an issue. If you've owned a CRT just treat your plasma the same in this regards.

Cheers

In your opinion, would there be an benefit to using the "whitewash" feature to break in a new set? Would it be a good substitute for the break in disc procedures, and would it both condition the new phosphors and/or make the cells less susceptible to ghosting images?

In your opinion, would there be an benefit to using the "whitewash" feature to break in a new set? Would it be a good substitute for the break in disc procedures, and would it both condition the new phosphors and/or make the cells less susceptible to ghosting images?If you look at the phosphor aging curves of the newest plasma display phosphors you can see that there is no longer an initial steep aging slope. It was this initial steep aging slope that prompted the "break-in" procedure to become standard practice. This is why it is in my opinion that break-in is totally unecessary in modern plasma displays. But old habits and ideas die hard. Image retention should be a lifelong phenomenon in plasma displays.

Cheers

P.S. - I remember someone here actually measuring brightness over time and plotting the data. The brightness actually "increased slightly" in the first hours of operation and then very slowly decreased with a projected lifetime of 100K hoursor something?

If you look at the phosphor aging curves of the newest plasma display phosphors you can see that there is no longer an initial steep aging slope. It was this initial steep aging slope that prompted the "break-in" procedure to become standard practice. This is why it is in my opinion that break-in is totally unecessary in modern plasma displays. But old habits and ideas die hard. Image retention should be a lifelong phenomenon in plasma displays.

Cheers

P.S. - I remember someone here actually measuring brightness over time and plotting the data. The brightness actually "increased slightly" in the first hours of operation and then very slowly decreased with a projected lifetime of 100K hoursor something?

Are there an simple rules that can be followed that would prevent most image retention problems, or is it one of those things that there is no real non-tedious way to avoid, and one has to rely on the 'whitewash' feature to correct the changes?

The best advice with current generation plasma sets seems to be "don't worry about it, just use common sense". If you play a video game for a few hours with fixed image elements on the screen, you can expect to be seeing a faint ghost of them for a little while during normal viewing, but only if you look for it specially before it fades. If you put a stock ticker on the screen cranked up to maximum brightness and then go away and leave it for a week, you can expect to see some permanent phosphor burn-in when you get back - just as you would on a CRT. The manufacturers seem to agree that there's no need for break-in now. In fact using a break-in DVD is dangerous - one guy in this forum created a break-in DVD that turned out to be defective and got stuck on a fixed pattern on the screen that burned in after he left it running.

Are there an simple rules that can be followed that would prevent most image retention problems, or is it one of those things that there is no real non-tedious way to avoid, and one has to rely on the 'whitewash' feature to correct the changes?What amesdp said...:)

Cheers

What amesdp said...:)

Cheers

But he referred to the Phosphors burn in issue. I was asking if there were any simple steps to prevent the residual charge IR effect that you had referred to. Any thoughts on that?

The manufacturers seem to agree that there's no need for break-in now. In fact using a break-in DVD is dangerous - one guy in this forum created a break-in DVD that turned out to be defective and got stuck on a fixed pattern on the screen that burned in after he left it running.You cannot burn-in any image on any display unless you have a static image on for greater than 72 hours. What that person had would be classified as Image Retention.

I was asking if there were any simple steps to prevent the residual charge IR effect that you had referred to. Any thoughts on that?

I don't know of any, but there's no real need. In most cases the residual image retention washes out within seconds of normal viewing of changing video content. In a really bad case of image retention it might take hours, but a casual viewer would never notice it. Don't obsess and you'll be fine.

I don't know of any, but there's no real need. In most cases the residual image retention washes out within seconds of normal viewing of changing video content. In a really bad case of image retention it might take hours, but a casual viewer would never notice it. Don't obsess and you'll be fine.

Thanks. I actually an not worried about it. I am just trying to shed as much light on the subject as possible because there is so much urban myth and disinformation being tossed around about both how vulnerable plasmas are to both IR and burn in. The reality is that one would have to fall into a coma, with the panel on, to establish permanent burn in, and the IR issue seems like a minor, easily rectified even that does not happen very often.
Thanks for the observations.

Sorry if this is old news but I see a lot of posts recently describing image retention incorrectly.

Thankfully, it is extremely hard to burn in a modern plasma display (equal to CRT burn-in resistance) and should not be an issue. If you've owned a CRT just treat your plasma the same in this regards.

Cheers

The main problem is on an old CRT the screen usually was filled. On a plasma (widerscreen) 4:3 TV shows have black bars on the side. If you watched a lot TV now, you'll be watching a lot of 4:3 with black bars. You could stretch it wide, but that looks stupid (to me).

Excellent thread xrox.

I just bought a Panasonic 42pz77u and my main concern would be watching 4:3 and OAR movies. I'd probably spend about 50% of my time watching content in one of those two formats. I don't like to stretch or zoom. Should I worry about using gray bars instead of black bars? Should I worry at all?

Would changing the aspect ration periodically reduce the risk of image retention? For example zooming in every 1/2 hour for a minute or two.

But he referred to the Phosphors burn in issue. I was asking if there were any simple steps to prevent the residual charge IR effect that you had referred to. Any thoughts on that? I am no expert on the matter but the same steps taken to prevent burn in also apply to image retention (even though they are different root causes). High contrast and brightness will alter the cell wall charge more than lower contrast and lower brightness. However, unlike burn in there is no worry of permanent damage.

BTW, plasma manufacturers are all developing anti-image retention technology involving compensating the voltage pulse width according to how long the cell has been on in the previous few frames.

Pioneer has several new patent applications on this.

The main problem is on an old CRT the screen usually was filled. On a plasma (widerscreen) 4:3 TV shows have black bars on the side. If you watched a lot TV now, you'll be watching a lot of 4:3 with black bars. You could stretch it wide, but that looks stupid (to me). Yes, if you watch 4:3 content unstretched you are at higher risk than a CRT. The danger here is accumulation if this content is the majority of your viewing habits. Again it will take a lot of time to happen but the result may be permanent.

So, basically, if 1/4 of your viewing is 4:3 material, with black pillars on the sides, you will get visible "stripes" on the sides after a year or two (or is it just months?) due to uneven aging of the phosphors.

With grey pillars, there should be less danger (or it will take longer, at least).

Is this a valid assumption?

(Also, you might be able to make an image with two white pillars and a black middle to try to even up the phosphor aging. But that would be a pain.)

xrox,

Stay out of the patent office files :D

So, basically, if 1/4 of your viewing is 4:3 material, with black pillars on the sides, you will get visible "stripes" on the sides after a year or two (or is it just months?) due to uneven aging of the phosphors.

With grey pillars, there should be less danger (or it will take longer, at least).

Is this a valid assumption?

(Also, you might be able to make an image with two white pillars and a black middle to try to even up the phosphor aging. But that would be a pain.)1/4 of the time viewing this type of material should not be a problem IMO. I watched widescreen movies (2.35:1) with black bars at least 1/4 of the time for many years on my old panny 42" ED plasma and never have seen any difference in the phosphor aging. 1/2 the time like bluescreen says may be of some concern but this is only my opinion as I have seen no such accumulation data as I have suggested.

The risk is lowered using grey pillars as you say.

Cheers

Stay out of the patent office files :D:D I think you are right. Legal jargon is just awful, especially when trying to describe scientific jargon :) Time to find a new hobby. Sadly work is getting in the way of my Kuro purchase plans. Believe it or not, this place keeps me sane when I'm on the road.

Cheers

It's good to know that 1/4 time 4:3 viewing shouldn't cause problems. Thanks for the reply!

I own 4 plasmas:
Panasonic 42" ED (4 years old)
Pioneer 5050 (3 years old)
Pioneer 4260 (2 years old)
Pioneer 6070 (1 year old)

I never did any "break-in" procedure or settings whatsoever on any of them. I put the settings on the PQ that I liked (D-Nice's settings for the Pioneers, I share his taste for a nice warm saturated picture) and away we went. I have always watched a totally random mix of all aspect ratios. In fact, I'd estimate 4:3 to be close to 50% of my viewing. And once, I even accidentally left my 5050 paused on the TWC DVR list screen (you know, the hideous purple and yellow in 4:3 with black bars on the side) for 15 hours straight (went to bed and forgot about it, found it the next afternoon)!

And I've never, ever, seen a hint of burn-in or even IR on any of the 4 displays. Even with that 15 hour pause, I could not see any IR.

So I'm not saying it's not possible on someone's set somewhere. And no, I'm not gonna buy anyone a new TV if they abuse it and get burn-in. But just take my experience for what it's worth.

I'm confident enough that I bought my 65 and 72 year old in-laws a Panasonic plasma instead of an LCD a couple of months ago. He was scared about burn in from reading Consumer Reports. I told him he'd be fine, to just watch whatever he wants.

I personally am sick of the magic break-in dvd hype. I see people here that can't enjoy their display because they're so freaked out because they're still at 199 hours.

Ah, perfect timing as my 50" gets delivered today!

As for break in, how do you explain the people that claim that IR is lessened significantly after a proper 100 hour break in.

Also, what about plasma manufacturers that state that gaming should be limited to 5% of the sets weekly use?

Thank you

As for break in, how do you explain the people that claim that IR is lessened significantly after a proper 100 hour break in.
Easy, placebo effect. If you do it, and you don't have IR, well, then it MUST have been the break-in that worked, right? Maybe if *I* had done the break-in, I could then say, "Well, I used the break-in DVD and I don't have any IR or burn-in on any of my 4 plasmas, therefore the break-in DVD prevents IR and burn-in. There's a huge placebo effect when you've put in 100 or more hours of obsessing about the pixels. But in reality, it would have been the same without the break-in procedure.

Also, what about plasma manufacturers that state that gaming should be limited to 5% of the sets weekly use?

Well, gaming *can* be harsh on any set. A lot of games have fixed bars or counters on the screen that never move. And gamers are known to spend hours and hours on the same game. So the manufacturers are covering their butts, as they should. Else someone would hook up their XBox and play a week long marathon of Halo 3 and never turn the display off and really abuse it.

appreciate this thread: the Master Burn In thread was started in 2004 and is somewhat outdated

If you look at the phosphor aging curves of the newest plasma display phosphors you can see that there is no longer an initial steep aging slope. It was this initial steep aging slope that prompted the "break-in" procedure to become standard practice. This is why it is in my opinion that break-in is totally unecessary in modern plasma displays. Thanks for the info.

larry

If you look at the phosphor aging curves of the newest plasma display phosphors you can see that there is no longer an initial steep aging slope. It was this initial steep aging slope that prompted the "break-in" procedure to become standard practice. This is why it is in my opinion that break-in is totally unecessary in modern plasma displays.I'm not so sure about this and manufacturers continue to provide numerous warnings regarding the potential for IR/Burn-in; which is always specified repeatedly throughout the operating instructions.Image retention should be a lifelong phenomenon in plasma displays.This is true. Now that my wife has primary control over our two-year-old (w/2000+ hours of operation) 50PX50U and takes absolutely no precautions with the display... I'm seeing IR all over the place. :mad:

If you look at the phosphor aging curves of the newest plasma display phosphors you can see that there is no longer an initial steep aging slope. It was this initial steep aging slope that prompted the "break-in" procedure to become standard practice. This is why it is in my opinion that break-in is totally unecessary in modern plasma displays. But old habits and ideas die hard. Image retention should be a lifelong phenomenon in plasma displays.

And where do you get those curves? I'd like to see it compared for all manufacturers... Although I doubt it's comparable... if contrast ratio are any indication...

I'm not so sure about this and manufacturers continue to provide numerous warnings regarding the potential for IR/Burn-in; which is always specified repeatedly throughout the operating instructions.This is true. Now that my wife has primary control over our two-year-old (w/2000+ hours of operation) 50PX50U and takes absolutely no precautions with the display... I'm seeing IR all over the place. :mad:

Manufacturers also still put warnings in the manual about not exposing the television to rain, or not placing it near water. It's common sense, but some people still need to be told. No matter what, there is someone out there who's going to say "Well if I'm not supposed to do that, why didn't you put it in the manual?!"

As far as burn-in warnings go, again, use common sense and it shouldn't be an issue. I'm looking at some old user manuals for widescreen CRT televisions, and the fixed image program material warning is there as well, so if you didn't think twice about it with your CRT, then don't overworry with the plasma either.

Someone mentioned something about 5% gaming time. That's really low. I've been telling my customers about 20% of any fixed image based on my own personal experience (not tested officially). Again, in the old manuals they suggest no more than 15% of weekly viewing time for fixed images. However the technology has moved forward since these manuals were written.

Image retention: This is caused by a change in the residual charge left in the plasma cell after extended periods of low or high brightness relative to other cells. The technical reason is that the cell efficiency changes with overuse by increasing the probability of discharge relative to other less used cells. This will leave a temporary ghost image that can be removed by using a full white screen that over time will equalize the wall charge in all cells.

so having a very low brightness and contrast setting againsted a 100% bright samsung channel menu will contribute to Image retention.

in this case I will run the plasma at 80 contrast and 45 brightness "movie mode right out of the box" and forget the break in low settings...

Now that my wife has primary control over our two-year-old (w/2000+ hours of operation) 50PX50U and takes absolutely no precautions with the display... I'm seeing IR all over the place. :mad:

That's interesting as my 500u does not know the meaning of IR no matter who is abusing it with the Wii or sidebars. :cool:

Burn-In: This is uneven phosphor aging caused by keeping portions of the screen at high brightness for extended periods of time. Burn-in in general is not "temporary" and is considered physical damage to the phosphor itself. Thankfully, it is extremely hard to burn in a modern plasma display (equal to CRT burn-in resistance) and should not be an issue. If you've owned a CRT just treat your plasma the same in this regards.

Cheers

Are you sure about the part I've underlined? CRTs luminesce on different principles and different efficiencies (for direct-view CRTs), so I am rather skeptical of this. CRTs used in projectors operate closer to plasma efficiencies and have much worse burn-in susceptibility than direct-view CRTs.

Are you sure about the part I've underlined? CRTs luminesce on different principles and different efficiencies (for direct-view CRTs), so I am rather skeptical of this. CRTs used in projectors operate closer to plasma efficiencies and have much worse burn-in susceptibility than direct-view CRTs.Cathodoluminescence (CRT) versus Photoluminescence (PDP). Both CRTs and PDP at one point used the same phosphors BAM.

Yes there is no direct comparison data showing that PDP and CRT burn-in resistence is the same or even close to the same. My statement was an assumption based on the data by Pioneer showing luminance decrease over time for PDPs. It suggested to me that burn-in was unlikely during a time period close to the lifetime of most CRTs.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd126/xrox/lifetime.jpg

First time HD and Plasma owner as of yesterday. I bought a Pio 5080 Kuro and one of the first loose pieces of paper I pull out of the box is a duplication of the user manual that says, (paraphrase)

Your plasma tv is at more risk for IR or BI during the first 100 hours of its life; theirfore be careful, use stretch, use orbiter, etc,etc.

I'm using the burin disk as we speak...yet I'm on the fence off the fence as well.

HI,

I posted this on another forum topic and didn't get much response.

I just received my new Panasonic TH-50PZ7OOU Plasma tv yesterday and all I've heard about from my friends is burn-in, burn-in burn-in which I knew nothing about. I did some research but I can't get a difinitive answer.
I followed some suggestions like comp[letely avoiding the 4:3 format and I turned down all of the picture settings to 0. The picture is dark but I would rather have it that way than ruin a new TV.
But I can't even enjoy it because I worry about it so much. Here are the questions:
1. Is turning the settings to 0 the right thing to do? or does it make burn-in more likely?
2. I don't know if light or dark causes it?
3. All of the news stations have permanent text boxes at the bottom of their screens with tickers and time/temp. Will this cause burn-in and if so how long can I watch the news before it burns in. I watched NBC news last night with the NBC peacock in the lower left and sweated throught the 30 minute show.
How much time can be spent on a show like this before you will see the logo permanently?
If anyone can authoratatively answer these questions I would be very grateful. Thanks

I wonder the same thing too, every station you watch has either a ticker, logo or both and I love me some ESPN.

I agree... Since I've bought my plasma I've noticed obnoxious logos and tickers on the majority of shows I watch, and that's not even counting actual news stations. The constant worry in the back of my mind about burn-in is often so distracting, I'm beginning to wish I'd just saved a few more bucks and gone with LCD. I bought into plasma because of the great contrast and the cheaper price... I knew about the dangers and higher maintenence of plasma but I never quite realized how much of a headache it would be until I actually owned one. Break-in, IR, burn-in, flicker, etc. It's not that the high maintenence is unbearable, but I don't have ANY of these issues with my 60" Sony LCD which has an even better picture to boot. I do love the TV (Sammy 5054), it's beautiful... But more than anything it's served to reinforce my love for LCD.


edit: I don't mean to come across so anti-plasma! I'm just feeling a bit of buyers remorse I suppose, I know it'll go away eventually. :) I'm having a tech out to replace a logic board next week (flicker), which on top of the IR/burn-in worries mentioned above has just been a little mentally taxing. The colors are phenomenal, the hardware is beautiful, and the contrast is gorgeous. Sammy makes a fine product for the price!

I agree... Since I've bought my plasma I've noticed obnoxious logos and tickers on the majority of shows I watch, and that's not even counting actual news stations. The constant worry in the back of my mind about burn-in is often so distracting, I'm beginning to wish I'd just saved a few more bucks and gone with LCD. I bought into plasma because of the great contrast and the cheaper price... I knew about the dangers and higher maintenence of plasma but I never quite realized how much of a headache it would be until I actually owned one. Break-in, IR, burn-in, flicker, etc. It's not that the high maintenence is unbearable, but I don't have ANY of these issues with my 60" Sony LCD which has an even better picture to boot. I do love the TV (Sammy 5054), it's beautiful... But more than anything it's served to reinforce my love for LCD.


edit: I don't mean to come across so anti-plasma! I'm just feeling a bit of buyers remorse I suppose, I know it'll go away eventually. :) I'm having a tech out to replace a logic board next week (flicker), which on top of the IR/burn-in worries mentioned above has just been a little mentally taxing. The colors are phenomenal, the hardware is beautiful, and the contrast is gorgeous. Sammy makes a fine product for the price!

Stop putting up those 100IRE white screens and looking for it. Does it affect regular video viewing? this image retention is very temporary and not long term burn in so its just something that is normal with some plasma panels and we will have to all get used to with the plasma. My thinking is if it goes away naturally and it doesn't interfer with my regular tv viewing then I am not going to worry about it anymore.

If it doesn't mess up the picture quality why worry?

There is already a thread for this, dedicated and stickied in the flat panel general discussion forum.

Stop putting up those 100IRE white screens and looking for it. Does it affect regular video viewing? this image retention is very temporary and not long term burn in so its just something that is normal with some plasma panels and we will have to all get used to with the plasma. My thinking is if it goes away naturally and it doesn't interfer with my regular tv viewing then I am not going to worry about it anymore.

If it doesn't mess up the picture quality why worry?

Actually I have yet to use the white screen to look for IR, but I've noticed it quite a bit during regular watching. Any time I watch tv after my wife has been watching "Americas Next Top Model" for instance, the "modelthon" logo is ghosted in the corner for some time. IR isn't what I'm "worried" about anyway, it's just one of those finicky quirks that I enjoy not having to think about with my LCD. The thing that worries me is burn-in. Are you saying that burn-in is more of a myth and I shouldn't worry about that either? That would certainly ease my mind!

I own 4 plasmas:
Panasonic 42" ED (4 years old)
Pioneer 5050 (3 years old)
Pioneer 4260 (2 years old)
Pioneer 6070 (1 year old)

I never did any "break-in" procedure or settings whatsoever on any of them. I put the settings on the PQ that I liked (D-Nice's settings for the Pioneers, I share his taste for a nice warm saturated picture) and away we went. I have always watched a totally random mix of all aspect ratios. In fact, I'd estimate 4:3 to be close to 50% of my viewing. And once, I even accidentally left my 5050 paused on the TWC DVR list screen (you know, the hideous purple and yellow in 4:3 with black bars on the side) for 15 hours straight (went to bed and forgot about it, found it the next afternoon)!

And I've never, ever, seen a hint of burn-in or even IR on any of the 4 displays. Even with that 15 hour pause, I could not see any IR.

So I'm not saying it's not possible on someone's set somewhere. And no, I'm not gonna buy anyone a new TV if they abuse it and get burn-in. But just take my experience for what it's worth.

I'm confident enough that I bought my 65 and 72 year old in-laws a Panasonic plasma instead of an LCD a couple of months ago. He was scared about burn in from reading Consumer Reports. I told him he'd be fine, to just watch whatever he wants.

I personally am sick of the magic break-in dvd hype. I see people here that can't enjoy their display because they're so freaked out because they're still at 199 hours.I quoted this so maybe anyone who missed it will read it again..

My plasmas:
3 1/2 year old 37" Panasonic ED
2 year old 42" LG
4 month old Panasonic 42" 1080p

Like the above post...I didn't follow break-in procedures for any of them. I'm far too impatient for that sort of thing, and I didn't pay that kind of money to deny myself the pleasure of using what I bought...makes no sense to me either.

Oh, and while the Panasonic ED and LG had some light IR when new..it eventually went away forever, and my current Panasonic 1080p had very little IR right out of the box. All of my sets have seen every source/aspect ratio imaginable....SD/HD tv, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, Blu-ray, HD-DVD etc.. etc.. and NONE have even a hint of permanent burn-in. I think the very fact that there is a link on this forum for a so-called "Burn-in dvd" is doing a disservice to people who are new to plasma..

Thanks WilliamR Super Special User.


I looked and could not find any stickied thread dedicated to burn-in questions or concerns.
This thread, however which is titled Image Retention and Burn-In seemed to be the appropriate place to ask my questions about Image Retention and Burn-In.
So if anyone can assist with my original questions I would really appreciate it. Mainly I'm wondering if watching a 30 minute news broadcast or a 2 hour movie with a station logo in the same location will ruin my new plasma TV. Actually if the other couple of questions in my orginal post could be addressed by a knowledgable individual it would go a long ways towrds the enjoyment of owning this behemoth.

HI,

I posted this on another forum topic and didn't get much response.

I just received my new Panasonic TH-50PZ7OOU Plasma tv yesterday and all I've heard about from my friends is burn-in, burn-in burn-in which I knew nothing about. I did some research but I can't get a difinitive answer.
I followed some suggestions like comp[letely avoiding the 4:3 format and I turned down all of the picture settings to 0. The picture is dark but I would rather have it that way than ruin a new TV.
But I can't even enjoy it because I worry about it so much. Here are the questions:
1. Is turning the settings to 0 the right thing to do? or does it make burn-in more likely?
2. I don't know if light or dark causes it?
3. All of the news stations have permanent text boxes at the bottom of their screens with tickers and time/temp. Will this cause burn-in and if so how long can I watch the news before it burns in. I watched NBC news last night with the NBC peacock in the lower left and sweated throught the 30 minute show.
How much time can be spent on a show like this before you will see the logo permanently?
If anyone can authoratatively answer these questions I would be very grateful. Thanks

1 I have never done this but it would not hurt anything it would just look bad.

2 both can cause IR

3 permanently? days, IR depends but you might get some after an hr or 2

Burn-in can still happen, if you leave a static image on the screen for days and days but if you are just watching TV the most you will get is some IR and that goes away by just watch some full screen programs.

Tell you friends that this is not 1995 TVs have come a long way.

Just watch your TV and injoy. :)

Actually I have yet to use the white screen to look for IR, but I've noticed it quite a bit during regular watching. Any time I watch tv after my wife has been watching "Americas Next Top Model" for instance, the "modelthon" logo is ghosted in the corner for some time. IR isn't what I'm "worried" about anyway, it's just one of those finicky quirks that I enjoy not having to think about with my LCD. The thing that worries me is burn-in. Are you saying that burn-in is more of a myth and I shouldn't worry about that either? That would certainly ease my mind!

The flickering and IR that you're seeing is more of a function of the Samsung you bought than plasma in general. The Samsung thread has mention of voltage adjustments being made by techs to fix the IR, though I didn't read in depth.

The flickering and IR that you're seeing is more of a function of the Samsung you bought than plasma in general. The Samsung thread has mention of voltage adjustments being made by techs to fix the IR, though I didn't read in depth.


Correct voltage adjustment for IIR and logic board swap for flicker. There is one confirmed board with 0 flicker issue, usually we just request a tech to come out with that specific board.

Actually I have yet to use the white screen to look for IR, but I've noticed it quite a bit during regular watching. Any time I watch tv after my wife has been watching "Americas Next Top Model" for instance, the "modelthon" logo is ghosted in the corner for some time. IR isn't what I'm "worried" about anyway, it's just one of those finicky quirks that I enjoy not having to think about with my LCD. The thing that worries me is burn-in. Are you saying that burn-in is more of a myth and I shouldn't worry about that either? That would certainly ease my mind!

if you get retention bad enough that you are seeing it really clearly in regular video viewing place a service call with samsung and have fix your voltages from you power supply.

You are not going to get per burn it, its more of a myth with these new plasma panels. Now if you left a screen paused for 3 or 4 days straight then yes, you might get burn in. But all this image retention we are seeing is just normal and a part of the Samsung panel design. You can improve the retention by having a service technician adjust your voltages on your power supply.

Thank you for the reply. My girlfirend won't even do her usual morning routine of a cup of coffee and the Today show before going to the office because we were afraid that it was going to damage the screen.
I work at the 911 Comm Center and what started this is a County electrician came by and we happened to start talking about plasma tv's and how I just purchased one. He told me dire tales of burn-in and ruined plasma screens. Before that I hadn't even heard of this as being a major problem.
Anyway, thanks again for the information. Maybe I can relax and enjoy it now.

I've had a 4280HD on my bedroom wall for around eight months now. No IR, ever. I did use the break in settings for broadcast tv..i have Fios...nothing heavy. Looks great! I also do not sweat watching 4:3 either.

I've had a 4280HD on my bedroom wall for around eight months now. No IR, ever. I did use the break in settings for broadcast tv..i have Fios...nothing heavy. Looks great! I also do not sweat watching 4:3 either.

I left the burn-in dvd in "Just mode" that left a small line on each side. Just switched to 16:9 to take up the rest of the screen and it went away pretty quickly. So these things take a while to show up even for temporary IR unless the voltages need adjusting.

Thanks WilliamR Super Special User.


I looked and could not find any stickied thread dedicated to burn-in questions or concerns.
This thread, however which is titled Image Retention and Burn-In seemed to be the appropriate place to ask my questions about Image Retention and Burn-In.
So if anyone can assist with my original questions I would really appreciate it. Mainly I'm wondering if watching a 30 minute news broadcast or a 2 hour movie with a station logo in the same location will ruin my new plasma TV. Actually if the other couple of questions in my orginal post could be addressed by a knowledgable individual it would go a long ways towrds the enjoyment of owning this behemoth.Please read the post just above yours again..along with the quoted portion. If that doesn't give you the answer then I don't know what will..

Thanks proudx and tower101 for the responses, this is the first time I've heard any actual helpful info about "burn-in". I'm used to the usual comments like "just don't leave a station logo on for too long if you can help it", which is very frustrating (how long is "too long" for Pete's sake!). But your advice eases my mind tremendously... We never have a static image (logo, ticker) on our TV for more than a couple hours at a time, and we never play video games so that's not an issue. Temporary IR doesn't bother me, so knowing it takes much more than that to cause actual burn-in is a relief.

Thanks again for the input!

I have a sevice tech coming out next week to address the flicker issue, I'll ask him if he can adjust the voltage while he's here. I wonder if that might help with the noise & dancing pixels as well, it would be great to kill several birds with one stone.

I would like to hear more on this thread about strategies to deal with IR once it has taken hold of your plasma. I have a 4270 pioneer plasma which is 1 year old and lately, with alot of CNBC watching, I have image retention which is noticeable when watching other channels. This has never been a problem until lately. Even after many hours of other programing, I still get the ticker bar that is a noticeable difference in shading.

What tips does one use to combat image retention other than switching channels? Do I use the burn-in DVD? Change TV settings?

Is it possible for an ir image to last a couple of days or weeks even?

Great thread!

I wish I had stumbled upon this kind of information sooner. I originally thought image retention == burn-in and returned my first set because of this. Nice to know that wasn't the case. I have since ordered a different plasma tv set.

My only gripe with non-CRT TV's is that they've become so much more complicated to buy. It used to be that you just walked into a store and picked out the TV with the right screen size + picture quality + price.

Nowadays, not just with tv's but with everything, you need to do 1-2 months of part-time research before walking in the store to make sure you know what your getting yourself into. The truth is, the only reason why I picked plasma over LCD was because I disliked plasma only slightly less than the other alternative, which means that I'm not entirely happy with either =)

Is it possible for an ir image to last a couple of days or weeks even?

absolutely but wouldn't be usual.

Is it possible for an ir image to last a couple of days or weeks even?There are many variables that can influence the degree of IR for a plasma display, with the primary factors being:

1) How many hours was the static image or black bars displayed?

2) What were the picture settings (e.g. contrast, brightness, sharpness) being used during that time?

It can take many hours of displaying full screen content to smooth out IR, so be patient and refrain from the kind of viewing habit(s) that caused the IR to occur.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective (http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf)

Is it possible for an ir image to last a couple of days or weeks even?Samsung has referred to long term IR as "image sticking" which they say is a result of sputtering of MgO. They also say long term white washing can fix this issue. I will post a quote from Samsung after I dig it up.

Thanks for your help, I was playing call of duty 4 on my samsung plasma which is only two or three months old. The bar where the weapon is displayed seems to not want to go away. initially u could see it during regular programing then I ran the "white wash" screen all night and it seems to have helped. I can't see the image now during normal programing but can still see the outline of the image on my programing guide menu. I had the contrast on 80 which i now found out was foolish and should have had it on 50. I played about 4 hours straight, hope i didn't destroy this tv.

What about for a pioneer plasma 4270? I have IR that wont go away. I am using a burn-in dvd to try and get rid of it. How can I whitewash it? Does Pioneer have any settings for this that I dont know of?

Samsung has referred to long term IR as "image sticking" which they say is a result of sputtering of MgO. They also say long term white washing can fix this issue. I will post a quote from Samsung after I dig it up.

R&D Team, PDP Division, Samsung SDI Co., Ltd. Korea

In this paper, the two kinds of solutions to remove a boundary image sticking of an ac plasma display panel are introduced. One solution is to completely recover the boundary image sticking cells by means of full white aging process. It was observed that after the 100-hour full-white aging process of the PDP cells with boundary image sticking, the MgO surface morphology in the boundary region with image sticking region was similar to that in the region with no image sticking. The other solution is to prohibit inherently the production of the boundary image sticking by sealing the PDP panel under a vacuum condition. In the panel fabricated by the vacuum sealing method, no boundary image sticking phenomenon was observed. ©2007

R&D Team, PDP Division, Samsung SDI Co., Ltd. Korea

In this paper, the two kinds of solutions to remove a boundary image sticking of an ac plasma display panel are introduced. One solution is to completely recover the boundary image sticking cells by means of full white aging process. It was observed that after the 100-hour full-white aging process of the PDP cells with boundary image sticking, the MgO surface morphology in the boundary region with image sticking region was similar to that in the region with no image sticking. The other solution is to prohibit inherently the production of the boundary image sticking by sealing the PDP panel under a vacuum condition. In the panel fabricated by the vacuum sealing method, no boundary image sticking phenomenon was observed. ©2007

So what they are saying is that with the white wash screen u can remove even a burn in image if u run that screen for up to 100 hours? Also does anyone know if Samsung vacuum seal their plasmas?

Is there a dvd I can download that does whitewashing?

So what they are saying is that with the white wash screen u can remove even a burn in image if u run that screen for up to 100 hours? Also does anyone know if Samsung vacuum seal their plasmas?This paper is describing image sticking which looks like image retention but is very long lasting and hard to reverse. The underlying cause is not phosphor aging or wall charge accumulation but rather the sputtering of MgO.

What happens is that the high energy discharge in the plasma cell causes the evaporation of the MgO coating in each cell. The MgO then redeposits on the phosphor or on to the adjoining cells. And since MgO governs discharge (discharge delay and driving voltage) the result is lower or higher luminence in those affected cells.

But since the cells are open to one another a white wash of the screen will normalize the redeposition of MgO and therefore normalize the distribution of MgO and eliminate any visible image sticking.

NOTE : Several companies (Pioneer, Panasonic....) are developing anti-image sticking technology that essentially analyzes the signal frames and compensates for overused cells by lowering or raising their brightness relative to adjoining cells.

Just watch full screen content.

anything I can download that plays whitewash images?

You can purchase a DVD called PixelProtector. I bought mine from Amazon and it works wonders in removing image retention as well as helping you correctly calibrate your TV.