Maybe this is all common knowledge to everyone else but I thought I'd link to/start discussion on Leopards DVD Player

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#dvdplayer

"# Video Quality Improvements

Enjoy even higher-quality video with Adaptive Video Analyzation technology that applies deinterlacing and inverse 3:2 pulldown on demand.
"

Scroll down a bit further for Front Row info.

That does seem to be the money quote, now let's hope it actually improves things. As far as the Front Row passage, notice that it says "Just pop in a DVD and enjoy" and nothing about video_ts, network storage, etc. It does, however, say "Front Row lets you play iTunes content located on other Macs and PCs in your house." Wow, iTunes content! Now if I only had some beside music that I cared about...

Now if the Spotlight search of shared Macs allowed one click video_ts playback in Front Row, wouldn't that be something.

Another tidbit, from the tech specs page:

DVD Player requires a 1.6GHz processor or faster for improved de-interlacing.

...As far as the Front Row passage, notice that it says "Just pop in a DVD and enjoy" and nothing about video_ts, network storage, etc. ...
Leopard Front row DOES support VIDEO_TS. Unless Apple decided to remove features available in the developer previews, which I find very difficult to believe.

So far as network storage, I would think it is just a matter of having a directory level link in the Movies folder to whatever external disk(s) you wish, networked or not.

Great, all we need is a cheap slimline HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo drive and the Mini is the ultimate HD machine :D

Great, all we need is a cheap slimline HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo drive and the Mini is the ultimate HD machine :DI hate to say it, but with all of the new info released today, there is still no mention of HDCP or high definition. I think that, unless the actual release proves me wrong, that Leopard still has no built in support for HDCP or playing high def movies--even given that we can install a third party optical drive.

I so want to be wrong about this, but I think that Leopard may prove to be a huge bust for those of us looking to DVD Player to play those BD or HD-DVD disks, or iTunes HD downloads (other than trailers). No mention of a new app to take its place in the HD world, as had been rumored.

There just isn't anything obvious in any of Apple's materials, or in any of the Leopard Preview reports that points to HD, out-of-the-box. I portend an extended wait for Apple to unveil its HD strategy. Maybe next year... MacWorld, or worse yet, WWDC.

Must sell iPhones and Touches...

Wildrock,
I think that HD is mainly a question of hardware, not software, specifically HDCP complaint video cards & displays. So far as HD iTunes downloads -- they'd work just fine right now under Tiger -- it is a business issue of the studios agreeing to sell HD (and again potentially a hardware issue, if they insist on HDCP).

well, that's what wildrock means about revealing a "strategy" and a strategy is hardware and software, in conjunction. And it appears Apple is too distracted by gadgets to push this more forward.

I portend an extended wait for Apple to unveil its HD strategy

And, if you knew that strategy would involve certain video cards, the lack of which couldn't be overcome via software, how many new Macs, purposely crippled with no internal upgrade options, would you sell in the meantime?

Wildrock,
I think that HD is mainly a question of hardware, not software, specifically HDCP complaint video cards & displays. So far as HD iTunes downloads -- they'd work just fine right now under Tiger -- it is a business issue of the studios agreeing to sell HD (and again potentially a hardware issue, if they insist on HDCP).Ted, If Apple is going to support BD/HD-DVD playback on the Mac, it will have to provide software support for AACS. Have you read the following article from Ars Technica about this issue?

"AACS DRM tentacles reach far into operating systems (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/aacs-tentacles.ars)

...AACS: coming to an (incorporated) OS near you

This is important but rarely acknowledged in these discussions ... : Apple will also have to adopt a strict DRM regimen at the most fundamental levels of Mac OS X in order to be able to (legally) play back AACS-protected Blu-ray or HD DVD discs (e.g., most commercial discs in those formats). Apple thus far has avoided criticism, but only because the company has not unveiled its full plans for appeasing the various requirements imposed by the AACS Licensing Administrator for next-gen optical disc DRM. When Apple does, we'll all see that Blu-ray/HD DVD support comes with plenty of strings attached—strings that Apple will have to work into its OS, too. There is no way around it; something similar to Microsoft's Protected Media scheme will be required of Mac OS X if Apple is a licensee to AACS. ..."

Apple won't be able to circumvent the AACS restrictions, that's for sure. Whether or not they'll be able to provide something else for iTunes downloads is very unlikely, given the atmosphere surrounding Apple and the movie studios right now.

Software support for [legal] HD on the Mac is essential, downloads or disks. And Leopard still hasn't shown its spots for either. I'd expect that sans any evidence of an HD roadmap with the release of Leopard, we'll see "avoided criticism" become quite blatant and vocal criticism--starting here at AVS.

...
Apple won't be able to circumvent the AACS restrictions, that's for sure. Whether or not they'll be able to provide something else for iTunes downloads is very unlikely, given the atmosphere surrounding Apple and the movie studios right now.

Software support for [legal] HD on the Mac is essential, downloads or disks. And Leopard still hasn't shown its spots for either. I'd expect that sans any evidence of an HD roadmap with the release of Leopard, we'll see "avoided criticism" become quite blatant and vocal criticism--starting here at AVS.
True, but if the studios won't even agree to sub -DVD quality SD downloads, why would Apple even bother wasting its time with a HD download strategy? Is it really essential for Apple to jump into Blu-ray/HD-DVD hardware support in the middle of the a format war, when buying a subsidized stand alone player is a much better deal for the consumer?

Becoming the king of upscaled SD might be the better business choice for Apple right now. I find it difficult to believe that if the studios suddenly decided to agree to HD downloads, Apple would have difficulty implementing the hardware/software necessary to support them. But does jumping up and down and saying "Leopard supports HD" without offering any major studio HD material would be counterproductive for Apple, so they are just choosing to say nothing at this point.

The one thing they *should* do is offer hooks for third party software like EyeTV to integrate into Front Row.

My bet is Apple has it's own agenda here. They don't want DRM and this is how they're voting. We'll see HD content including movies available via iTunes Store free of DRM. Even though Apple is quicker on releasing new versions of OS X I can't believe they would have skipped out on HD this time around. This is why I'm thinking Apple has it's own HD strategy up its sleeve.

The only reason I can see for Apple to openly jump in, is if they have an HD download strategy (and studio(s) agreement) to essentially lay waste to the disk format war. Otherwise, my guess is they have put the underpinnings into Leopard for future deployment in whatever strategy presents itself.

Looks like some evidence building that Apple is about to reduce DRM free 256AAC music to $.99 per...
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/15/itunes-plus-drm-free-tracks-expanding-dropping-to-99-cents
So they still push for DRM free with passion, but in the end, I think the movie studios will require DRM in some form - especially for HD....

In general, I agree with Ted's assessment. I just don't see any pressing need for Apple to jump in (although I would love it personally of course). They can augment for a while by having some iTunes HD content available as they do now...


ken

This is why I'm thinking Apple has it's own HD strategy up its sleeve.I didn't mean to imply in my comments above that Apple may not have a different strategy they are trying to follow. I'm just saying that if Apple is trying to implement HD (via BD and HD-DVD disks) with DVD Player, then it will have to jump through the AACS hoops. And if it is going to offer online HD downloads, then it is either going to have to mimic the Windows system, and offer an HDCP compliant path through the hardware and OS, or come up with something new. I had my hopes on a new player app that was somehow sandboxed so as to not have to go the HDCP-compliant OS route. And for downloads, that the studios would let Apple roll its own (hah).

And if the Leopard release doesn't answer these dilemmas, then there will be a clamor for Apple's solution to these problems. Or an acknowledgment that an appleTV solution is the only route. In other words, there may be no HD solution on the Mac.

It's not even a given that HD-DVD or Blue-Ray has a future. Apple should continue on their current path and provide HD content on demand.Agreed about BD and HDDVD futures. It would just be nice to know exactly what is Apple's path. I'd love HD content on demand or rentals and seasons' passes. Dump cable.

It's not even a given that HD-DVD or Blue-Ray has a future. Apple should continue on their current path and provide HD content on demand.

Jobs confirms DRM free iTunes plus price drop...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119256135983660860.html?mod=djm_HAWSJSB_Welcome

ken

Jobs confirms DRM free iTunes plus price drop...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119256135983660860.html?mod=djm_HAWSJSB_Welcome

ken
Great news, I just wish they'd reduce/eliminate the price of upgrades to iTunes+ now that they have started adding indie albums, which is mostly what I've bought. No comment on that, I take it.

Great news, I just wish they'd reduce/eliminate the price of upgrades to iTunes+ now that they have started adding indie albums, which is mostly what I've bought. No comment on that, I take it.Maybe if enough people complain loud enough, and threaten to sue, Apple will give everyone back a 10 cent/song rebate, in the form of a credit at the Apple Store. :rolleyes:

Maybe if enough people complain loud enough, and threaten to sue, Apple will give everyone back a 10 cent/song rebate, in the form of a credit at the Apple Store. :rolleyes:

Not me. Somehow when I upgraded the 15 or so songs I had that were in iTunes+ format Apple never charged me at all. :D

I upgraded some 50 or 60 sings and never saw a charge; I also noticed buying the album versions of plus was always the same $9.99 price. Maybe they knew this was coming and wanted to avoid much of the issue - regardless - kudos to Apple for this...

This write-up includes a list of some of the new Indies and labels added with some additional details...
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/17/apples_itunes_plus_now_worlds_largest_drm_free_music_catalog .html

ken

By the way - it was confirmed today 800Mhz off the minimum requirement list - Need 867 or higher (PowerPC)

Apple has already "jump-in" the format war, they are one the 18 board of directors of the Blu-ray Disc associate -- no not just a member. This doesn't mean they can't do both, as LG is also on the board and was the first to release a dual format player.

This being said, I doubt we'll see HD support till Apple includes a drive in one of their computers. This type of update will probably wait till a product refresh, so we'll prob have to wait for Mac World.

As for the whole HDCP AACS mess. Apple can get it done if they want, the question is do they, and when? I wouldn't be one bit surprised if it's included in Leopard, but won't be apparent till then.

i'm in agreement with the commenters who see HDCP/AACS as threats from MS and the content middlemen who want to milk us dry, not desireable advances in technology that Apple should embrace just to dish up 1080p in Leopard, or any time. i hope BluRay/HD both turn out to be another laser disk dead end.

if you really got to have BR/HD, buy a stand alone player and plug it into your HT, not your mac. you know, they are not going to let you legally copy or edit that content digitally, forgeddit. that's what HDCP and AACS are designed to stop. so why load it on a computer anyway? for the rest of us, Apple will be offering 720p content soon, and we can capture 1080i from CATV (plus our own high-def camcorders). works for me.

it's very important for the big picture that Apple does NOT cave in to this DRM straightjacket until reasonable pro-consumer fair use rules are established.

SOme interesting tidbit from Jobs include a continued 12-18 month major release cycle for the next decade...
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/22/steve_jobs_talks_future_mac_os_x_upgrades_mac_sales_and_more .html

By the way - now many here are taking Leopard directly to their large screen TV setups this friday? I personally will be getting Leopard immediately, but use AppleTV on the big screen. I'm anxious to hear form those that engage a mini or other and can provide some early evals of the player and other aspects...

ken

i hope BluRay/HD both turn out to be another laser disk dead end.

I hope so too, after all Laser discs were sold in the US for almost 20 years.


so why load it on a computer anyway? for the rest of us, Apple will be offering 720p content soon, and we can capture 1080i from CATV (plus our own high-def camcorders). works for me.


If 720p low bit rate content with Dolby Pro-logic audio is good enough for you, more power to you. But some people would rather watch pristine copies at home with lossless audio and not be forced to buy two versions of every movie -- one for our HT and one for our laptop (trips etc).

If 720p low bit rate content with Dolby Pro-logic audio is good enough for you, more power to you. But some people would rather watch pristine copies at home with lossless audio and not be forced to buy two versions of every movie -- one for our HT and one for our laptop (trips etc).If Apple releases 720p movies without DD 5.1 and better, then it will really be a ridiculosity! Pro-logic is so pathetic when compared to the real thing on a decent AV system. Hopefully the DD pathways issues and format problems we've had to deal with here in Tiger will get resolved in Leopard.

Still hoping that Apple will find a way to put 1080p materials in our hands eventually. It's going to have to if it is serious about delivering HD in the home. But then again, only a small percent of people--even those with HD home theaters--really understand what all of this means. For each one of us here at AVS, there are a hundred every day consumers buying big screens without a clue about the format wars, or 720 vs 1080 p or i. And those consumers have more money than sense (can you say "near-DVD quality"), and can fill Apple's coffers for years before it has to get really serious about delivering an HD solution for the rest of us aficionados and purists. How many people have I visited, only to have them show off their big screens hooked up to SD cable only, and a regular DVD player--with composite. It's crazy, I tell ya.