As many of you know I have been a big fan of the crystalio II series. So naturally I wanted to get my hands on the new 3100 model. As you can see in the pic it looks exactly like the 3300 and 3800. Like the other units it uses gennum's VXP (Visual Excellence Processing) chip which deinterlaces 1080i into 1080p second to none. It also has Pixel Magic's Reality Expansion, Fine Edge, TruMotionHD, Fidelity Engine, Intelligent Scaling Algorithms, Aspect ratio Conversion and High Resolution Support. I will get into userface, resolutions, inputs and outputs a little later.

One of the best surprises in the 3100 is its newer updated EDID. For those that do not know what EDID is it is EXTENDED DISPLAY IDENTIFICATION DATA. EDID contains basic information about a monitor and its capabilities, including vendor info, maximum image size, color characteristics, factory timings, frequency range limits and character strings. Some of you are aware that HD DVD players cannot send in 1080p/24 (23.98) to the current 3300 and 3800 models. PMS will upgrade your units EDID (buyers pay shipping both ways) so it will accept it. Blu ray players on the other hand have had no problems sending in 1080p/23 (23.98) into the crystalio IIs. Some units (xbox 360 ELITE, Panny BD10A) can only send in 1080i. So as you can see the major issue with EDID is communication. I think it is terrific PMS will upgrade your units EDID. I do not know of any other companies that have offered to do that. The 3100 accepted every resolution I offered it from the A35 (HD DVD player) and the 95FD (Blu ray player). And yes 1080p/23.98 was accepted from both!

Using the 3100 with HD DVD (A35) and a Blu ray player (Pioneer 95FD) sending in 1080p/23.98 in and then back out worked flawlessly. The picture is smooth and judder free. No flicker or cadence drops. It is as good as it gets! I am using the new Sony VPL VW60 "Black Pearl" with my set up. Many ask me why I want to send in that resolution to my VP. My answer is I want to send in the next gens native source then use the crystalio II to adjust picture parameters. Doing this allows me to tweak it so I can achieve the most optimal viewing. I do send in 1080i or 480i for SD dvd, DTHEATER and DirecTV. That is when i use the gennum VXp chip. My DTHEATER and DirecTV HD has never looked better. SD dvds look near HD! :eek:

The 3100 does all of the same resolutions as its olde brothers. It has the same userface which has always been one of my favorite features. The 3100's does appear to be a little larger with clearer letters and numbers. I have always liked the info button which tells you everything about what is going in and what is going out. Being able to label inputs and outputs always makes thing easie. Speaking of inputs there are 4 HDMI, 2 component, 2 S-Video, 2 analog, 3 Digital 91 opt. 3 coax), RS 232, ethernet and of course a USB which can be used to do firmware updates via a USB flashcard. I wish other companies would allow this feature because it is very conveinant. As for outputs there are 2 HDMI which can also be used simultaneously.

The userface has these options: INPUT, IMAGE, OUTPUT, AUDIO, and SYSTEM. Input allows you to set profiles, hide unused input sources and configuration which also allows you to customize the name of each input. The IMAGE section allows video settings (picture adjustments), color temperature, gamma correction, aspect ratio, overscan, position, crop, deinterlace, noise reducer, smooth scaling and video profile adjustments. OUTPUT has more configuration which allows naming each one and also has assigned resolutions. Each one can be assigned to do a different resolution so it makes switching between them seemless. There is also screen shape selections and screen masking which allows you to pick any color you want your masking to be. Sometimes it is fun having the bars red or blue for a kids movie! Then of course there is gamma corrections and output profiles. It is also important to note that the 3100 also has DynamicVP which allows certain "rules" for each input and how it is output. The AUDIO section for selecting input audio options. The SYSTEM has cool test patterns and also firmware info. Also this is where you will find the PASSTHRU feature which is just like it sounds. What comes in goes out (untouched)... Then there are OSD (on screen display) options.

In summary the 3100 has a msrp of 2899. It is a set up's bestfriend which mainly uses HDMI (like mine). The crystalio II 3100 works more smoother then its older siblings. The remote is the same backlit one but the response time seems a little faster. And so far the picture has been perfect coming from it. I really feel like I am seeing the pinnacle of what FULL HD has to offer. With being able to adjust 1080p/23.98's sharpness, color, contrast and brightness as well as black level can it get any better than this? Congrats to PMS for their hard efforts which yields great results. Success breeds followers! ;) :)

To read more about the crystalio II 3100's features and details please go to www.crystalio.com/spec.html

Nice one Joe - glad you're happy.
I didn't realise the 3100 might have some improvements, but it sounds like a few useful tweaks have been made.
I've got used to playing my DVDs from the internal media player of the 3800 and I'm looking forward to trying HD-SDI, so I think I'll stick with it.

I was just in the process of recommending one to a friend though, so I will probably advise that he gets the 3100 now. The cost saving will provide enough money to get a great control system.

That is an excellent point. At the 3100's price range it is right in there with the competition. And since you get pretty much most of the features (especially picture Q) of the 3300 and 3800 it is definitely worth it. I am waiting for more info from PMS about the possibility of the 3100 being able to even do Pip (picture in picture) and PbP (picture by picture)... That would make it even better! :)

About the EDID thing, I've had this for over a year (probably longer) on my Lumagen HDP Pro (they have this supported across the line).

It's a great feature and I'm glad Pixel Magic has added it to their feature list. I use this feature all the time, as I often test equpiment that screws up the Auto EDID feature and not all of them offer selecteable resolutions. IMO, this is a must have feature these days on high end processors.

Hi Ofer - I'm not sure this is an editable EDID.

tryingtimes, what does "editable" EDID mean?

There's a list of possible EDID modes and I can select the ones I want the unit to allow and those that I don't...

When I said editable, I meant configurable (as your description above). No one has described the VSP3100 EDID as like this. But I'm happy to be proved wrong. As I understood it, it was just a more useful selection of EDID data (bit still fixed).

Joe? Is there anywhere to set EDID info on VPS3100?

I will look harder for it later but I have not run accross any EDID settings. If they are there then they must be in a hidden menu. I wouldn't touch them anyway because everything is running in and out very smoothly... :)

Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

Joe,

More importantly, does it pass multichannel LPCM over HDMI now? I know it passed 2 channel but PMS alway indicated that is was a hardware limitation that rendered them unable to send up to 8 channels of LPCM. Now would have been the perfect time to fix this with the introduction of this new model. :) I just recently bought the 3300 and would love to know if PMS will offer a trade in program, should this new feature be available. :)

Ryan

jeroed, if everything works well - then that's fine, but I did run into several devices that had timing incompatibility with my display and/or the processor and needed a well justified EDID tug in the right direction :)

I will test the multichannel capability in a little bit but since it is not HDMI 1.3 I do not expect it to work. I send my Blu ray and HD DVD players to my Onkyo 905 first then send them out to my 3100. Since the 905 has 2 HDMI outs I use one for 1080p/23.98 and the other for my DirecTV and 360 ELITE sources. That way I calibrate two separate INPUTS on the 3100. And since the 3100 has two HDMI outs I use one for Blu ray and HD DVD (1080p/23.98) and the other for DirecTV and Xbox. And finally since my new WV60 has two HDMI inputs I use one for the 1080p/23.98 and one for 1080p/60. It may seem a little complicated but it is easy and seemless switching between them... :)

oferlaor, I know exactly what you mean. I still had issues with sending in 1080p/60 with my HD DVD players. Sometimes it would be fine for awhile then all of a sudden I would get a cadence drop. That was when I would send in 1080p/60 and then out 1080p/23.98. Now the Pioneer 95FD and previous models were fine sending in 1080p/23.98 and then back out 23.98. It was the HD DVD sources and DTHEATER ones that would cause hiccups. Now, with the new and improved EDID on the 3100 I have had absolutely no issues. Not one cadence drop or any signs of judder or strobe effect. The 3100 I received has firmware version 1.03. Even if they release another one I will be tempted to not change to it. :)

I can only think of one instance where EDID settings are useful, and that is where an HD source sends out SD material and wont allow it to be in 480i/576i. On the UK Sky HD box this is the case.
The lumagen's allow the EDID table to be edited to force 480i/576i signals from the box when the program is SD.

Hi Joe!
Does 3100 pass LPCM through its HDMI? I am thinking of selling my VP50+ Flea combo & getting 3100.
Thanks,

From what I can tell the 3100 does not do what the flea does. Am I correct?

Thanks,
Bob

I will test the multichannel capability in a little bit but since it is not HDMI 1.3 I do not expect it to work. I send my Blu ray and HD DVD players to my Onkyo 905 first then send them out to my 3100. Since the 905 has 2 HDMI outs I use one for 1080p/23.98 and the other for my DirecTV and 360 ELITE sources. That way I calibrate two separate INPUTS on the 3100. And since the 3100 has two HDMI outs I use one for Blu ray and HD DVD (1080p/23.98) and the other for DirecTV and Xbox. And finally since my new WV60 has two HDMI inputs I use one for the 1080p/23.98 and one for 1080p/60. It may seem a little complicated but it is easy and seemless switching between them... :)

Joe,

I could see it not passing DTS-MA/TrueHD bitstream, but I'm more worried about the player side decoded TrueHD that's being sent via LPCM. I thought 8 channel LPCM has been in the HDMI spec since the get go.

reg152

oferlaor, I know exactly what you mean. I still had issues with sending in 1080p/60 with my HD DVD players. Sometimes it would be fine for awhile then all of a sudden I would get a cadence drop. That was when I would send in 1080p/60 and then out 1080p/23.98. Now the Pioneer 95FD and previous models were fine sending in 1080p/23.98 and then back out 23.98. It was the HD DVD sources and DTHEATER ones that would cause hiccups. Now, with the new and improved EDID on the 3100 I have had absolutely no issues. Not one cadence drop or any signs of judder or strobe effect. The 3100 I received has firmware version 1.03. Even if they release another one I will be tempted to not change to it. :)

Waow ! So you mean that the cadence break problemes have been solved ? Well if the 3800 gets the same improvements afer EDID upgrade i'll be the happiest man on earth !

About fw ... try the new one, if it is not quite perfect you can still flash back to 1.03 !

I am also wondering if the CII can now take in up to 7.1 LPCM instead of 2.0. The HDMI profile 1.1 allows that, but the probleme is more linked with the chip that as been integrated (as a matter of fact not all HDMI1.1 chips can take in 7.1 LPCM, some are limited to 2.0 ... check on Silicon Image web ... it is a real headache !).

I just got in so I will mess with testing audio LPCM tonite. I will upgrade whrn they offer because you are right. I can always go back. :)

Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to. To me that is worth the price of shipping it in and out alone! ;)

Hi Joe!
That would be great if you can test the LPCM issue before the weekend as I am planning to wait till Monday to put the order in.
Thanks,

Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to.

My HO MY !

Good that I have FedEx 5 minutes ride form home !

Sorry, I will test this morning. My wife wanted to watch scary movies lastnite so Icould not do any testing. I am heading downstairs now... :)

Yes, all cadence breaks are gone. I bet after you get yours back from PMS they will be gone to. To me that is worth the price of shipping it in and out alone! ;)

My HO MY !

Good that I have FedEx 5 minutes ride form home !

I find it hard to imagine that just changing the EDID will have an effect on this. I'd check with PMS before getting your hopes up. Maybe they service more parts as well, but again, I'd check.

They must have modified other areas to becuuse I am telling you I have not had a single glitch occur...

Which Gennum processor does it use? Is it the latest version?

Hi Joe!
Any update on LPCM through HDMI?
Thanks,

Sorry, looks like it still passes the same sound as the 3300 and 3800. It does not matter to me since I send in my Blu ray and HD DVD into my Onkyo 905 first then send them into the inputs on the 3100. Since the 905 has two HDMI outs I can switch between them and my DirecTv and that allows each souce to be calibrated going into the 3100. :)

Hi Joe,
I currently have a Ruby. Would the 3100 provided enough picture quality improvement to justify the investment? My sources are HD DVD, Blu Ray and Directv HD TiVo. Also, do you think that it would be worth it to upgrade from the Ruby to the VPL-VW60?
Thanks
Al

I really like the WV60 and the 3100 combo. They work quite well together. PM sent. :)

Gentlemen - the LPCM issue has not been addressed - but simply routing via your AVR fixes the issue. You lose lipsynch but I haven't needed to use lipsynch.

Also, the Gefen's DVI genie fixes most EDID issues. Its only $70.
The EDID issue is fixed on the 3100 though.

Zeropoint - Gennum's current VXP is being used.

Also, I've used the C2 with a Ruby and it really gives the Ruby an edge.

Oh yeah, the Ruby/crystalio II combo is awesome to! I am glad the EDID issues are resolved. That makes the crystalio IIs winners! I should also mention I really like using the import/export feature. I just export all the settings on one crystalio II then if I want I can send them into (import) them into another crystalio II via the usb flashcard. Now that is to conveinant. :)

My 3800 just crapped out on me, and I sure miss it. Is the 3100 actually an upgrade, except for the useless media player in the 3800, or is there something else missing in the 3100?

Edit: Never mind, I followed the link and answered my own question.

Is 3100 using Gennum 9450 or 9351?

I assume 9351 Vinodk as there hasn't been mention of compression artifact removal.
Also PiP would be possible with the 9450 but isn't in the VPS3100.

Free - I'd actually assumed you'd moved to another product as you've been quiet after that initial settling-in period.
Glad to know that you were still enjoying it - sorry to see that it's died. Hope you're being sorted out for a fast replacement.

I have been chugging along happily since last spring when my 3800 was repaired. Now, without my C2, I am having a hard time watching my RS1, as I am seeing the flaws that the C2 was doing so well to compensate for.

At this point, I am on the fence what I will do, when I get my 3800 repaired. I don't like having to send my unit to China, and not having a US contact. When I get it back, I may put it up for sale.

If I were to continue with my RS1, or an RS2, I would definately need a VP, so I would either keep the 3800, or go with something else. I would even consider selling the 3800 and getting the 3100, since it has everything I need, and sounds like the UI is improved on it. One of my complaints with the UI on the 3800 is that it is a bit too small, and from what Joe posted above, it sounds like they made it a bit larger on the 3100. I don't really need all the other stuff on the 3800, so I might go that route.

On the other hand, I am planning on getting the new C3X 1080, and the processing might be good enough in that to not need any additional help.

Is 3100 using Gennum 9450 or 9351?

I asked about this earlier, and oliverg said, in post #29, that 'Gennum's current VXP is being used,' which I took to mean the 9450, as used in the RadianceXD. However, I haven't managed to confirm this yet.

I am hoping its 9450. I am contemplating selling my VP50+Algolith Flea combo & getting the 3100 but not sure if 3100 is atleast comparable to VP50+Flea combo especially with noise reduction.

What are the strengths that Crystalio has over Lumagen?

Hi joerod,with the c2 3100 ,the vw60 image's are more razor?
Thanks :)

I have been tweaking my Black Pearl/3100 combo a lot lately and can say I am very pleased. I am getting a super SHARP picture with good colors and greal black levels. The 3100 has helped me calibrate the picture to as good as it can be. I really like the way HD DVD and Blu ray look sending in 1080p/23.97.

I was told by PMS it uses the same gennum VXP chip as the 3300 and 3800...

Thanks Joerod,
have you see also JVC rs1+ C2 in action ?!

I have a HD1 (RS1) and a VPS3800.

I get awesome PQ, simple as that !
I have been tweaking the pair for some time now and I still manage to get improvements over the hours spent.
The CII is currently in Hong Kong for the EDID update, I have been watching few HD-DVD and BD and you can beleive my CII is really missing there ! Even "Transformers" would not look as good as I would expect it should !

Image sharper(more razor)with the C2 jackox?

Better in every way !

And yes indeed sharper even with HD !
I also have an X360 Elite which is linked at 1080p60 on the CII, even games look better with it !

Thanks...do you have any screenshots with c2 for the comparation? :P

For that I need to get back my CII from its upgrade (I hope it won't be too long) and most of all have a good camera which I do not have.

What are the strengths that Crystalio has over Lumagen?

EDIT: I've just decided that this post isn't really very useful as I haven't seen Radiance in the flesh. I think the PQ differences will only be discernible with a side-by-side demo - something I intend to do only when finances allow.

I'm happy to hear that the 3100 is so great, but I must say that it is unfortunate that PMS has seemingly turned all of its efforts away from the 3300/3800 to this new product. The last firmware release for the 3300/3800 was at the beginning of August, and it left a lot to be desired. PMS hasn't been heard from since, at least not on its forum. VERY VERY VERY disappointed in myself for sending them $6k of my money.

What I do not understand is why PMS does not have a US service center now that they are well known in the processor world.

Received my 3100 last friday. I had been feeding my sony vpl-vw100 Ruby with an HD TiVo, HD DVD and blu-ray. The 3100 has really improved the picture quality from the TiVo. Noticed that there is alot less motion artifacts from the TiVo now. Watching Jay Lino, the blue building in the background with the vertical window lines would strobe on horizontal motion when Jay was doing his monolog, but they don't now. Overall picture quality has ben improved quit a bit. Will have more time to play with the 3100 next weekend. It passes PCM DD 5.1 through the HDMI cable which is nice.
If there is one complaint that I have is the remote control. The labeling of the buttons is too small. Although it is back lit, blue letters on a black background just doesn't work well. They should take a lesion from the Toshiba XA2 remote which has a bright light with a contrasting color to the black remote.
More to come
Al

Forgot to add that It is nice to have 4 HDMI inputs and 2 outputs. With the HD TiVo, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and soon to be added Directv HR20 DVR, driving My Sony VPL-HS20 used for general viewing and the Sony VPL-VW100 for HD movies and sports, this unit fits my needs quite well.
Al

I really like the 3100. Yes the remote leaves something to be desired but I use universal remotes so it really does not matter...

BOBCAT, did you mean that the 3100 passes 5.1 LPCM ou that it passes DD and PCM2.0 ?

jackbox,
Yes it does. It passes it from my HD TiVo and the Blu-Ray. For some reason my XA2 HD DVD player must have a problem as it doesn't pass it through the HDMI cable, but if I feed the fiber out of the HD DVD player to the fiber in of the 3100 does pass it through to the Denon. I had the same problem when I used the Gefen 2x2 hdmi switch so I think that it is an issue with the Toshiba XA2. Changing the audio settings in the XA2 doesn't make a difference.

I really like the 3100. Yes the remote leaves something to be desired but I use universal remotes so it really does not matter...

Joerod,

I know you are busy sending out Onkyo 905 firmware upgrades, but I am hoping that you have time for an experiment in your "lab". :)

I am contemplating getting a 3100 to feed a Sony 52XBR5 because it's dynamicvp can be configured to feed the Sony 1080p60 for video content and 1080p24 for film content(even if it's being broadcast as 1080i60.)

Since you have both the Crystalio 3100 and the Onkyo 905 with the Reon can you comment on the NR reduction features of the Reon in the 905?

If I remember correctly, you have an HR20 that you usually set to output a fixed 1080i signal. Since the Reon's NR reduction settings can only be used on SD sources, I was hoping that you could set the HR20 to native and then go to a typical over compressed D* SD channel and set the NR reduction settings to Low, Mid, etc to see if they improve the picture.

I know you are a very busy person so any comments are appreciated.

Also, has there been any word from Pixel Magic on updating the Crystalio to use the same Gennum chip as the Radiance?

I have an extra 3100 (new) if anyone wants one. PM me for details or look in classifieds... :)

Hello.

I'm a new CII 3100 owner. This scaler is very impressive :eek: but unfortunately I have an issue to ouput 1080 p 23.98 when the incoming signal is 1080 i 60.

In fact C2 works perfectly during 20 minutes ( motion is judder free and picture really beautiful ) and after this period judder appears. To solve it I must to stop or jump to an other chapter.

I use firmware 1.04.

My HD player are panasonic bd10a and toshiba hd-e1 ( same as hd-a2 ) : native 1080p24 is not available.

My projector is JVC HD1 (european name for RS1 model). No issue has never reported with 1080p23.98 on JVC HD1(RS1) it's why I think it is C2 3100 which has a problem. And I use the resolution timings given by CRT PROJECTOR on Pixel Magic forum ( http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3004&highlight=1080p24 )

Best regards

Hello.

I'm a new CII 3100 owner. This scaler is very impressive :eek: but unfortunately I have an issue to ouput 1080 p 23.98 when the incoming signal is 1080 i 60.

In fact C2 works perfectly during 20 minutes ( motion is judder free and picture really beautiful ) and after this period judder appears. To solve it I must to stop or jump to an other chapter.

I use firmware 1.04.

My HD player are panasonic bd10a and toshiba hd-e1 ( same as hd-a2 ) : native 1080p24 is not available.

My projector is JVC HD1 (european name for RS1 model). No issue has never reported with 1080p23.98 on JVC HD1(RS1) it's why I think it is C2 3100 which has a problem. And I use the resolution timings given by CRT PROJECTOR on Pixel Magic forum ( http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3004&highlight=1080p24 )

Best regards


There are known issues with that particular player and several displays (and processors) - is the firmware (player) updated to the latest version?

There are known issues with that particular player and several displays (and processors) - is the firmware (player) updated to the latest version?

For panasonic bd10a : YES
For toshiba hd-e1 : NO but 1080 i 60 works very well
For crystalio II 3100 : YES
For JVC RS1 : NO but 1080p24 input works perfectly whatever the version of firmware

Thank you for your help or suggestion

Best regards

Hello.

I'm a new CII 3100 owner. This scaler is very impressive :eek: but unfortunately I have an issue to ouput 1080 p 23.98 when the incoming signal is 1080 i 60.

In fact C2 works perfectly during 20 minutes ( motion is judder free and picture really beautiful ) and after this period judder appears. To solve it I must to stop or jump to an other chapter.

I use firmware 1.04.

My HD player are panasonic bd10a and toshiba hd-e1 ( same as hd-a2 ) : native 1080p24 is not available.

My projector is JVC HD1 (european name for RS1 model). No issue has never reported with 1080p23.98 on JVC HD1(RS1) it's why I think it is C2 3100 which has a problem. And I use the resolution timings given by CRT PROJECTOR on Pixel Magic forum ( http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3004&highlight=1080p24 )

Best regards


Hello.

I have sent an email to PMS. Explanation is :

We notice the issue. It's a limitation of the Gennum VXP chips in the Crystalio II. With a 1080i Input source, the VXP chip is constantly checking the video stream to apply different processing for film or video content. From time to time the film/video processing mode will switch and may cause motion judder when outputing in 24fps. Gennum is aware the issue and working on a solution. We will release firmware update for the Crystalio II when the issue is resolved.

PMS customer support is very good, thank you for its quick reply.

I hope Gennum ( or now sigma designs ) is really working on a solution.

:(

Remark : on my C2 3100, DEINTERLACING = FILM BIAS delays the issue ( 1 hour instead of 20 minutes )

Hi all,
How is pan & zoom handled on the 3100 ?
Meaning just vertical stretch and shift...
Could not find anything in the manual, just a hazy reply from somebody on the subject.
Can you set different fixed settings by Pronto remote?
Hate logos and tickers!
Cheers