So thought this should have its own thread.

If you shoot with HDV and need to deliver small numbers of HDM (under 30)

Whats different option would be best?

Since HDV is mpeg2 it should be easy to asume that you just should deliver with mpeg2.

But since I colorcorrect and add transistions and so on. Its really aint the same as the source anyway.

So ideas?

there is a thread in the hd dvd forum. I'd go look. It's very interesting.

I know personaly I'm tinkering with X264. Having a bit of trouble but still fun!

Its refers to both format.

HDV works out to almost 2GB every 10 minutes. A HDV on miniDV is 60 minutes. You have the following options :

1. HD DVD HV_VIDEO & (AVCHD) BD-5 on SL DVD-R : 20+ minutes.
2. HD DVD HV_VIDEO & (AVCHD) BD-9 on DL DVD-R : 40+ minutes. (Not recommended on HD DVD as I created a lot of coasters - layer change glitch on HD-A1 & A2, not tried on PS3)
3. BDMV on BD-R SL 25GB : 120 minutes. (> 2 tapes) [retail, expensive]
4. BDMV on BD-R DL 50GB : 250 minutes+ (> 4 tapes) [retail, expensive]
5. HV_VIDEO on HD15 : >70 minutes (> 1 tape) [burner hard to find]
6. HV_VIDEO on HD30 : >140 minutes ( > 2 tapes) [burner hard to find]

---

[ Note, a BDMV on BD-R ISO image burnt onto a DVD-R is recognized as AVCHD on PS3, same ISO image burnt onto BD-RE is seen as BDMV ]

This assumes you leave the mpeg2 HD alone, which I would recommend if these video are wedding/baby videos you absolutely must archive forever.

I have made MANY SL and DL HD DVD discs that play fine on HD1. But a friend has trouble playing some of my DL discs on his A20. There may be stuttering on about the first 5 minutes and last 5 minutes. I think my 2.5x discs are not quite fast enough and have trouble reading at the center. Lower data rate discs seem to do better. There have been mixed results in the discussions on the HD DVD software forum. (There's a sticky on HD DVD authoring on red laser discs.) I have some fairly low data rate discs (off the air) that are pretty acceptable. Try re-encoding with various encoders, at various settings to see how far you can go. With lower data rates, experimenting can pay big dividends!

Neo,

What happens when you put multiple AVCHD files on a disc, or put them in folders, and then play them in a PS3 or BR player? Are they played in alphabetical order? Do you get a menu (like a folder structure)? Since red laser HD DVDs are authored, menus and playing options can be programmed.

Dave

I have transcoded HDV@25mbps to VC1@12 mbps without apparent loss of quality. The resulting file plays fine on xbox 360, but I have not authored it as HD DVD or BD, you get ~40-45 minutes on a SL DVD. If you are going to use plain old DVDs, transcoding is necessary.

I have made MANY SL and DL HD DVD discs that play fine on HD1. But a friend has trouble playing some of my DL discs on his A20. There may be stuttering on about the first 5 minutes and last 5 minutes. I think my 2.5x discs are not quite fast enough and have trouble reading at the center. Lower data rate discs seem to do better. There have been mixed results in the discussions on the HD DVD software forum. (There's a sticky on HD DVD authoring on red laser discs.) I have some fairly low data rate discs (off the air) that are pretty acceptable. Try re-encoding with various encoders, at various settings to see how far you can go. With lower data rates, experimenting can pay big dividends!

Neo,

What happens when you put multiple AVCHD files on a disc, or put them in folders, and then play them in a PS3 or BR player? Are they played in alphabetical order? Do you get a menu (like a folder structure)? Since red laser HD DVDs are authored, menus and playing options can be programmed.

Dave

Dave, the issue of the stuttering on the HD-A20/2/3/30/35 have been resolved. Set your burner book mark to +R instead of ROM and it eliminates the stuttering.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146&page=70

I have transcoded HDV@25mbps to VC1@12 mbps without apparent loss of quality. The resulting file plays fine on xbox 360, but I have not authored it as HD DVD or BD, you get ~40-45 minutes on a SL DVD. If you are going to use plain old DVDs, transcoding is necessary.

What did you use to transcode to VC-1?

HDV works out to almost 2GB every 10 minutes. A HDV on miniDV is 60 minutes. You have the following options :

1. HD DVD HV_VIDEO & (AVCHD) BD-5 on SL DVD-R : 20+ minutes.
2. HD DVD HV_VIDEO & (AVCHD) BD-9 on DL DVD-R : 40+ minutes. (Not recommended on HD DVD as I created a lot of coasters - layer change glitch on HD-A1 & A2, not tried on PS3)
3. BDMV on BD-R SL 25GB : 120 minutes. (> 2 tapes) [retail, expensive]
4. BDMV on BD-R DL 50GB : 250 minutes+ (> 4 tapes) [retail, expensive]
5. HV_VIDEO on HD15 : >70 minutes (> 1 tape) [burner hard to find]
6. HV_VIDEO on HD30 : >140 minutes ( > 2 tapes) [burner hard to find]

---

[ Note, a BDMV on BD-R ISO image burnt onto a DVD-R is recognized as AVCHD on PS3, same ISO image burnt onto BD-RE is seen as BDMV ]

This assumes you leave the mpeg2 HD alone, which I would recommend if these video are wedding/baby videos you absolutely must archive forever.


Its not archiving im talking about, and by my calculation BD25 cant fit 2 tapes?

But as for edited footage colorcorrected etc, its completly new ballgame, and just render back to HDV might not be as optimum.

I have tested to create AVCHD disc with menu, but I havnt been able to render progressive frames, as AVCHD doesnt support 25P. I get a 50i embedded stream with 25P.

Dave, the issue of the stuttering on the HD-A20/2/3/30/35 have been resolved. Set your burner book mark to +R instead of ROM and it eliminates the stuttering.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146&page=70


Does that also work for the A-1?

Ever since I went past 2.0, it has stutterd and broken up on me.

I have made MANY SL and DL HD DVD discs that play fine on HD1. But a friend has trouble playing some of my DL discs on his A20. There may be stuttering on about the first 5 minutes and last 5 minutes. I think my 2.5x discs are not quite fast enough and have trouble reading at the center. Lower data rate discs seem to do better. There have been mixed results in the discussions on the HD DVD software forum. (There's a sticky on HD DVD authoring on red laser discs.) I have some fairly low data rate discs (off the air) that are pretty acceptable. Try re-encoding with various encoders, at various settings to see how far you can go. With lower data rates, experimenting can pay big dividends!

Neo,

What happens when you put multiple AVCHD files on a disc, or put them in folders, and then play them in a PS3 or BR player? Are they played in alphabetical order? Do you get a menu (like a folder structure)? Since red laser HD DVDs are authored, menus and playing options can be programmed.

Dave

So far, I authored the AVCHD disks as separate titles. The authoring tools for AVC or VC1 today in normal tools are very primitive, so we wrote one up.

Its not archiving im talking about, and by my calculation BD25 cant fit 2 tapes?

But as for edited footage colorcorrected etc, its completly new ballgame, and just render back to HDV might not be as optimum.

I have tested to create AVCHD disc with menu, but I havnt been able to render progressive frames, as AVCHD doesnt support 25P. I get a 50i embedded stream with 25P.

Typically, I fit two tapes worth of DV-based on a single BD-25. Note I typically don't use up the tapes completely, but there's at least 58minutes worth on each tape. The key is that the HDV streams must not be reencoded, and two tapes take up about 22GB and overhead puts that to 23GB which fits. If I remember correctly.

In my case, for HDV, I used videoredo to cut and merge the relevant sections, and in the end I get approximately 120minutes of HDV on a BD25, but that's without any photoslideshows or whatnots, only the straight video. The audio is ac3-stereo from the camcorder (can't remember what bitrate).

Nero can do AVCHD with menu.

But who wouldnt want an encoder with Segment Reencoding and RoI.

What did you use to transcode to VC-1?

TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress, it is very versatile. It converts to wmv, which is basically VC-1.

TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress, it is very versatile. It converts to wmv, which is basically VC-1.

Is wmv the same thing as VC-1? I figured they were similar but with a different name, I figured there were some significant differences.

Is wmv the same thing as VC-1? I figured they were similar but with a different name, I figured there were some significant differences.

they are different. very similar, but still different. You can not encode to wmv for hd dvd.

Wesely:

Are you just streaming this to your xbox 360 or are you buring them to dvd's?

Are they just files? You are just popping them in the core unit and not the add-on?

Typically, I fit two tapes worth of DV-based on a single BD-25. Note I typically don't use up the tapes completely, but there's at least 58minutes worth on each tape. The key is that the HDV streams must not be reencoded, and two tapes take up about 22GB and overhead puts that to 23GB which fits. If I remember correctly.

In my case, for HDV, I used videoredo to cut and merge the relevant sections, and in the end I get approximately 120minutes of HDV on a BD25, but that's without any photoslideshows or whatnots, only the straight video. The audio is ac3-stereo from the camcorder (can't remember what bitrate).

Are you authoring them as AVCHD or BD/MPEG2? Probably the latter if you don't re-encode the HDV materials.

Are you authoring them as AVCHD or BD/MPEG2? Probably the latter if you don't re-encode the HDV materials.

BDMV supports mpeg2 as well. Because HDV is mpeg2, I just demux into elementary streams, a single audio and single video track and then mux it into AVCHD. AVCHD is BDMV with a BDMV folder in the root of the disk. If I burn a short BDMV onto a DVD/R, it is reported as an AVCHD. If I burn a long BDMV onto BD-RE, player thinks it's a BDMV.

Essentially, any reasonable stream can be demuxed onto the elementary streams and remuxed to m2ts and then laid out as a BDMV onto a BD-RE (25GB or 50GB [ if money means nothing to you ] ), the only tricky part is that the audio needs to be played with to fit something the BD supports.

You just have to write your own BDMV creation tool onto ISO as well as have a tool to burn an ISO image onto a BD-R/BD-RE/DVD-R.

Sometimes, headers have to be tweaked, but even non compliant streams (eg : very long GOPs over hundreds of pictures, L4.1 with one slice etc) actually are accepted by the very tolerant PS3 and panasonic player.

Wesely:

Are you just streaming this to your xbox 360 or are you buring them to dvd's?

Are they just files? You are just popping them in the core unit and not the add-on?
Yes, these are just files you can burn to DVD or even copy to flash memory and play in core unit, addon actually does not play them.

I don't know if wmv and vc-1 is different enough (syntax?), that one can not author wmv files directly as HD/BD. AFAIK, there is no tools for authoring VC1 HD/BD yet??

Is wmv the same thing as VC-1? I figured they were similar but with a different name, I figured there were some significant differences.

they are different. very similar, but still different. You can not encode to wmv for hd dvd.



I don't know if wmv and vc-1 is different enough (syntax?), that one can not author wmv files directly as HD/BD. AFAIK, there is no tools for authoring VC1 HD/BD yet??


ther you go

Maybe should make myself abit more clear.

It isnt really the options, im interested in, more the technical process when you have HDV that basicly is mpeg2. Now when you ad stuff like colorcorrecting etc it isnt the source anymore, wich make the door open for all 3 codecs.

So how will the 3 different codecs handle HDV as source material?

ther you go
Actually I am willing to try, but I am not aware of tools that allow HD/BD authoring with VC-1/WMV, so there is no easy way to test.

I remember Amir commented on this before, but couldn't find it. According to MS, wmv9 is MS implementation of VC-1, its various profiles are fully VC-1 compliant. Anyway, I asked in insider thread, let's wait for the verdict.