guys,

I have just designed (8) MTM baffles each consisting of 8" woofer 1" tweeter and another 8" woofer. I kinda have them mounted like bipole dipole at the moment. I built sealed boxes in my soffits for them and mounted them in the ceiling of my under construction HT room. I am totaly dissapointed with the higher frequencies not getting to the front seats!

design for the surround left and right;
left speaker firing across the ceiling from the soffit, other one straight down. (just behind rear row of seats) Same for right speaker

design for the surround back left and right;
left speaker 6' behind rear row, firing towards the front from soffit, other straignt down. Same for the right speaker


They sound great in the rear row, but not when your in the seated area up front, NO HIGHS!...I'm ready to rip all them out and start over I think, I'm so disgusted.

Thoughts?

I put my surrounds between my 2 rows of seats and that seemed to work well. I found that suggestion somewhere on this forum when I orginally was debating 7.1. My concern with it was that the rear row would be behind the surrounds and cause problems with the imaging. Can't say I have noticed any issues though.

good luck

Piers

Most dipoles have 2 tweeters firing front and back. Woofer direction is much more varied. I have Axiom QS8's and the woofers fire up and down. Other's I've seen have 2 woofer's oriented the same as the tweeters, while other use 1 woofer in a TMT configuration. But in all these the tweeters are at a approx. 45* angle to the wall firing front and back.

Good luck
Chip

guys,

I have just designed (8) MTM baffles each consisting of 8" woofer 1" tweeter and another 8" woofer. I kinda have them mounted like bipole dipole at the moment. I built sealed boxes in my soffits for them and mounted them in the ceiling of my under construction HT room. I am totaly dissapointed with the higher frequencies not getting to the front seats!

design for the surround left and right;
left speaker firing across the ceiling from the soffit, other one straight down. (just behind rear row of seats) Same for right speaker

design for the surround back left and right;
left speaker 6' behind rear row, firing towards the front from soffit, other straignt down. Same for the right speaker


They sound great in the rear row, but not when your in the seated area up front, NO HIGHS!...I'm ready to rip all them out and start over I think, I'm so disgusted.

Thoughts?

I started a long thread with this question last fall (but any search I do only goes back to the beginning of this year).

Anyway, the general concensus was you have just two choices:

1. pick one row as your "main" row, and optimize the sound for that row

2. pick a compromise location (generally between the rows), and have comprimised sound in all rows.

I chose the first option, as 90% of the time it will be my wife and I in the first row. I set up my Paradigm ADP 590s (dipole hybrids) directly next to the first row -- so that I am sitting in the "null" -- as intended with these speakers.

You need to consider the use of the rows (how often, realistically will all rows be used) and whether you want to optimize for one, or have non-optimized sound for all.

Another option (when using dipoles) - put two rows of side surrounds in at 90 degress to each row. This is what I am doing. I don't mean move your back surrounds up, I mean have 9 speakers, instead of 7.

I am actually doing 8 plus sub for a 6.1 configuration with an additional two side surrounds for the second row and one rear centre. I never liked the 2 speaker back configuration with THX ASA.

Where would be the best position for 2 rows of seating with Axiom surrounds like these ?

Where would be the best position for 2 rows of seating with Axiom surrounds like these ?

It's just like caesar1 described a couple of posts up - you have two options based on whether you are compromising on one or two rows.

It's just like caesar1 described a couple of posts up - you have two options based on whether you are compromising on one or two rows.

You think so ? ... the axioms fire on what looks like 45 degree angles so if they were right at ear level ( front row ) then they would be firing forward and behind the front row ... and forward of the rear row :confused:

In order to give best sound for the front row dont you think they would almost have to be behind the ear level of the front row but not quite as far back as the rear row ?

That's how I'd mount them - but get them up to around 6' or a bit more off the floor.

Bryan

You think so ? ... the axioms fire on what looks like 45 degree angles so if they were right at ear level ( front row ) then they would be firing forward and behind the front row ... and forward of the rear row :confused:

In order to give best sound for the front row dont you think they would almost have to be behind the ear level of the front row but not quite as far back as the rear row ?

That's right. If optimizing for the front row, what you describe is the best bet. If the plan was to optimize for the second row, they would need to go further back. Eitherway, it boils down to the OP picking the compromise that he's most willing to live with.

I've used Axioms in my previous home's media room (not a theater) and they were highly forgiving given their less than optimal placement at the time. When I asked Axiom about placement their suggestion was a little behind and above the primary listening location.

guys, how do real movie theaters get away with using several direct radiators for surrounds? Why couldnt I just do it like that?

Just Have 2 sets of L/R MTM surrounds;
one set a bit behind front row, another set a bit behind rear row?

guys, how do real movie theaters get away with using several direct radiators for surrounds? Why couldnt I just do it like that?

Just Have 2 sets of L/R MTM surrounds;
one set a bit behind front row, another set a bit behind rear row?

Well receivers for consumers are set up to be 5.1 or 6.1 or 7.1.

If you do it the way you are talking about with 7.1 -- the back surrounds are different from the side surrounds. Its not intended that they always get the same information as the side surrounds.

So what the last 2 speakers will output for the back row, will not be the same as what is being output for the 1st row.

It might work if you could somehow wire the side surrounds to be identical (basically 2 sets of side surrounds -- but I'm not sure how or if you can do that).

yea thats what I'm talking about doing!

2 sets of side surrounds playing the same material, just like I think theaters do it now

then another set in the rear L/R playing the rear surrounds (Different information)

follow me? would it work? or has somebody else done this?

Thanks

yea thats what I'm talking about doing!

2 sets of side surrounds playing the same material, just like I think theaters do it now

then another set in the rear L/R playing the rear surrounds (Different information)

follow me? would it work? or has somebody else done this?

Thanks

I believe it was done that way in this thread. He didn't use dipoles though.

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615703

I had the same problem with my theater. I went two sets for the side surrounds and 1 set for the back surround. IMHO, sounds rather nice now, even though I mainly sit in the front row.

From what I have read online it depends on the left and right seats not so much the, front, rear, or sweet spot.

Logistics only give me one real option. In columns on rear wall at 5' high - 1/3, 2/3 positions along rear wall length.

Two feet behind rear row, 7' behind front row.

db