Hi All,

Just a heads up.

I have provided the Amazon Statistics on the Warner titles that are available on both formats to blu-crew.com for a comparison page.

The page can be seen here (http://www.blu-crew.com/WarnerWars.php)

While this site is a pro blu-ray site, the numbers on this page are purely factual based on Amazon sales ranks and pricing and updated on an hourly basis.

Currently 69 titles rank higher on Blu-ray Disc and 17 rank higher on HD DVD, but this changes pretty much every hour.

The average price for BD is currently $24.95 and the average HD DVD price is $25.96.

Have Fun!

"Out of the 86 Warner titles tracked at Amazon, currently 69 titles rank higher on Blu-ray Disc and 17 rank higher on HD DVD."

Blu-Ray exclusive Nelson says Ha Ha:D

If only we could see volumes. Then we'd all notice that sometimes only a few hundred copies mean the difference between a Bluray lead and a HD-DVD lead.

Basically something that could change overnight by any number of unforeseen events from either side.

This is why Warner has said that they are looking very carefully at how well HD-DVD does over Bluray in the stand alone player sales department. They know with the volume of titles sold, it really doesn't matter which way they go.

So does this mean Blu-ray wins?

Amazon sales matter now! Don't worry, they won't matter next week.

So does this mean Blu-ray wins?

Again?

Can you make a chart for standalone players?

The only problem is that for the rankings in the thousands, very few titles are moving.

It would be better to track on an individual title basis by average ranking, and drop tracking once both sides go over 500 or so. I understand logistically, this is very difficult. Other than that, the neilson title ratings should suffice.

Example

300 7/26
blu-ray 4 hd dvd 5
8/4
blu-ray 100 hd dvd 101

Super man returns

7/26
blu-ray 401 hd dvd 400
8/04
blu-ray 500 hd dvd 501
-stop tracking-

This is why Warner has said that they are looking very carefully at how well HD-DVD does over Bluray in the stand alone player sales department.

I'd be willing to bet that isn't even close to how Warner phrased their position.

Some of the discs on that list were also part of Warner's offering to Toshiba's "Perfect Offer". It would make sense that those would be ranked lower than their BD counterpart since a lot of people got them for free via the promotional offer ;)

Some of the discs on that list were also part of Warner's offering to Toshiba's "Perfect Offer". It would make sense that those would be ranked lower than their BD counterpart since a lot of people got them for free via the promotional offer ;)

All 3rd gen HD DVD players come with 300

Can you make a chart for the amount of wasted threads like this we have to endure?

Hi All,

Just a heads up.

I have provided the Amazon Statistics on the Warner titles that are available on both formats to blu-crew.com for a comparison page.

The page can be seen here (http://www.blu-crew.com/WarnerWars.php)

While this site is a pro blu-ray site, the numbers on this page are purely factual based on Amazon sales ranks and pricing and updated on an hourly basis.

Currently 69 titles rank higher on Blu-ray Disc and 17 rank higher on HD DVD, but this changes pretty much every hour.

The average price for BD is currently $24.95 and the average HD DVD price is $25.96.

Have Fun!

Maybe you could pimp beatboys site as well;)

So does this mean Blu-ray wins?

I think the tense you're looking for there is past, as in won. Get with it now. ;)

Wow. It's hard to post anything without getting flak. In my view, this is a worthwhile exercise. We have little actual data, know Amazon is the #2 retailer for HD discs, and have some interesting data from Amazon. Why not take a look at how the dual format discs are selling relative to each other?

The titles that seem to matter are the better sellers. The others seem to sell so little that they are irrelevant, and no doubt tiny changes in volume mean many spots in the rankings. How about just looking at the Top 20 titles in each format, which would probably mean about 25 titles?

But the overall exercise seems reasonable. And the chart idea is a good one. It is odd that a post that suggests we actually look at the facts gets so much immediate criticism on this forum.

Wow. It's hard to post anything without getting flak. In my view, this is a worthwhile exercise. We have little actual data, know Amazon is the #2 retailer for HD discs, and have some interesting data from Amazon. Why not take a look at how the dual format discs are selling relative to each other?

The titles that seem to matter are the better sellers. The others seem to sell so little that they are irrelevant, and no doubt tiny changes in volume mean many spots in the rankings. How about just looking at the Top 20 titles in each format, which would probably mean about 25 titles?

But the overall exercise seems reasonable. And the chart idea is a good one. It is odd that a post that suggests we actually look at the facts gets so much immediate criticism on this forum.

More charts on the obvious, thats what we need, charts! charts! charts!

More charts on the obvious, thats what we need, charts! charts! charts!

Again, wow.

I would not have thought the notion of comparing seemingly reliable statistics regardng dual-format releases from one of the major HD retailers would be so radical in the AVS Blu-Ray and HD-DVD area. With the dearth of hard data, you work with what you have and this is data we have that someone has already spent the time compiling and posting. God forbid we actually take a look at what the data suggests, formulate theories, or substantively address the attributes/shortcomings of the method, etc.

As I suspected, this same thread is on Blu-ray.com started by the same username. This is more blu-ray propaganda…

BTW, I have to admit, I love lurking in the Blu-ray forums. I find it wildly entertaining, there is absolutely no dissenting opinion and whenever something good happens to HD DVD, they simply don’t believe it. I mean, look at some of these headlines:

Does Anybody Believe TFormers did 190k?
"look and sound of perfect" : wrong grammar?
OMG I did the unthinkable... I went HD-DVD too
Poll: What would you do if HD DVD simply does NOT die?

You can’t make this stuff up!

Mkay, Blu-Ray has won for the 59th time this year... or is it 61st? I keep losing track. :rolleyes:

Also, I don't know why anyone pays attention to "average price" numbers since box sets skew those numbers. It's an absolutely useless metric.

By the way, how does this thread escape the "this should be in the sales thread" requirement?

As I suspected, this same thread is on Blu-ray.com started by the same username. This is more blu-ray propaganda…

BTW, I have to admit, I love lurking in the Blu-ray forums. I find it wildly entertaining, there is absolutely no dissenting opinion and whenever something good happens to HD DVD, they simply don’t believe it. I mean, look at some of these headlines:

Does Anybody Believe TFormers did 190k?
"look and sound of perfect" : wrong grammar?
OMG I did the unthinkable... I went HD-DVD too
Poll: What would you do if HD DVD simply does NOT die?

You can’t make this stuff up!

I could probably dig up some incredible quotes on avsforum too. Mostly HDDVD fanboys spreading FUD, sprinkled with some bluboys silly spins. (see my sig for a good one.. I repeatedly told him that his sig is misleading, and others mentioned it too, but he does not care)

The topic started here is factual though.

This is stupid because OF COURSE blu-ray is selling more titles than HD DVD right now, who DIDN'T know that?

They know with the volume of titles sold, it really doesn't matter which way they go.

I think selling 250,000 copies of 300 on Blu-ray compared to half that on HD DVD actually does matter.

Can you make a chart for the amount of wasted threads like this we have to endure?

How about we instead make one about enduring wasted posts?

This is stupid because OF COURSE blu-ray is selling more titles than HD DVD right now, who DIDN'T know that?

Ah, good old AVScience forum where comparing stats and charts is now "stupid".

I think when Warner goes HD DVD exclusive the first quarter of 08, their HD DVD sales will be greater shortly thereafter.

Can you make a chart for standalone players?
Why? What does that have to do with Warner titles on both formats?

Can you make a chart for the amount of wasted threads like this we have to endure?
Why? Because it puts Blu Ray in a better light?

I think when Warner goes HD DVD exclusive the first quarter of 08, their HD DVD sales will be greater shortly thereafter.You must have this quote stored as a Macro. Using a single key stroke, when you need to drag it out, when you have no credible response to a fact. I wonder how long it will take the Acolytes to have this thread closed, because it does not suit their purpose. Better make those phone calls or PM's!

You must have this quote stored as a Macro, using a single key stroke, when you need to drag it out, when you have no credible response to a fact. I wonder how long it will take the Acolytes to have this thread closed, because it does not suit their purpose.

Works like a charm it does. Why not post in some bullsh!t thread designed to make me think Blu-ray is Warner's little darling.

The chart will change as reality changes.

I am sorry to all the people that have difficulty with reality not showing things how they would like to see it.

But the chart is not biased - it simply measures the reality of Amazon Warner ranking and pricing in one hour increments.

If HD DVD sales pick up, it should be visible on the chart. Likewise if they further decrease.

Of course, you can choose to ignore it.

But it is there for anyone who has interest in what Warners' titles are doing on the respective formats. I don't believe that this is easily displayed from the other charts...

JAC6 - it is interesting to me also that a chart that simply shows these things is considered a complete waste of time by some where on the other hand countless rumour threads and endless argument over things that cannot be proven either way somehow has merit...

As I suspected, this same thread is on Blu-ray.com started by the same username.

I am sorry, I didn't realise that this forum had some kind of rule that participants are not allowed to post on other forums that discuss HD Media.

Are there any other restrictions you would like to place on us?

The chart will change as reality changes.

I am sorry to all the people that have difficulty with reality not showing things how they would like to see it.

But the chart is not biased - it simply measures the reality of Amazon Warner ranking and pricing in one hour increments.

If HD DVD sales pick up, it should be visible on the chart. Likewise if they further decrease.

Of course, you can choose to ignore it.

But it is there for anyone who has interest in what Warners' titles are doing on the respective formats. I don't believe that this is easily displayed from the other charts...

The info may be factual, but the bias is yours.

If Warner decides to go for one format or the other it will be based on

Hardware sales
Software sales
Production Cost
Ease of Use
Patents
Attach rates
Software flexibility
Hardware price-points
& Hardware readiness


This constantly trying to find new ways to say "2 to 1!, 2 to 1!" isn't fooling anybody. It's but one consideration of many.

Funny! They should also have a chart of standalone player sales (Amazon rankings) :)

If Blu Ray was just a critical format for Waner, would they release T3 first with IME or something like Batman or Matrix? FWIW, in terms of number of titles, since Jan of this year their gap went up by 1! This after the BD supporters have been claiming how 2007 would be the year of Warner catching up.....seems they are taking their own sweet time. Perhaps a chart on the Warner release gap?

If you guys think Warner is going to go exclusive with the format that sells more of their discs this holiday season on competing titles, then you should just go ahead and crown Blu-ray the champions. BD will outsell HD on the same titles this holiday season no matter what. That's why I believe the charts are useless. If that's what you think they're basing their possible exclusivity on, then just go ahead and pop the champagne and have your victory party already.

Funny! They should also have a chart of standalone player sales (Amazon rankings) :)

I am sure you are most welcome to create such a chart.

Perhaps a chart on the Warner release gap?

That is simple enough you could track it in your sig.

The info may be factual, but the bias is yours.

If Warner decides to go for one format or the other it will be based on

This constantly trying to find new ways to say "2 to 1!, 2 to 1!" isn't fooling anybody. It's but one consideration of many.

I have never claimed to be unbiased.

And if the numbers change, the charts will change. The chart simply charts what is happening. If you want the chart to change, the sales have to change.

I would be interested to see charts that demonstrate the reality of any factors that may play into the format war.

The original Amazon comparison charts were started by HD DVD biased people to demonstrate HD DVD winning week after week at Amazon. However these charts went on to show HD DVD losing its edge and eventually losing week after week.

The only difference with this chart is that it was started by someone who prefers BD. It can't hide the reality if HD DVD makes a come back just as the other chart could not hide Blu-ray Disc successes in 2007.

The only difference with this chart is that it was started by someone who prefers BD. It can't hide the reality if HD DVD makes a come back just as the other chart could not hide Blu-ray Disc successes in 2007.

Is blu-ray a success because it sells more than HD DVD on Amazon?

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Warner doesn't need to follow the numbers, they are the numbers. Whatever they choose will follow that choice upward, any numbers behind that choice will quickly become the stuff of history.

WB is the content tipping-point, and they could make or break either format regardless of how it's doing beforehand.

With all the BD players out there IMO Blu ray is losing as they should be outselling HD DVD by a higher margin. If SM3 doesn't do 2-3 times what Transformers did then IMO that is a failure for BD.

It isnt the current market that will make Warner swing one way or the other. Because if they only looked at that they maybe drops both formats right way.

What warner is interested in is the potential market. And thats were we should focus on, how shall the 2 formats grow?

Right now the BD side is mostly a PS3 format. And Warner looks on what can BD do to expand that area? They also look on how HD DVD can expand its area. Because it will get harder to reach the other end of the puchase powers.

Maybe Warner sees the TwinFormat as the only way to go because they cant appeal to everyone anyways? Who knows, but im sure they dont look at the current sales only.


It didnt stopped Warner from making Batman begins, just because Batman&Robin flopped. Because they could se potential.

With all the BD players out there IMO Blu ray is losing as they should be outselling HD DVD by a higher margin. If SM3 doesn't do 2-3 times what Transformers did then IMO that is a failure for BD.

yeh, I'm pretty sure Warner doesn' care how many PS3/HD players are out in the wild. They're not getting any cut of the hardware profits

I'm pretty sure their accountants can figure out that they are generating revenue from the BD side side right now. And unless someone from Toshiba starts giving out moneyhats to Warner, its gonna to stay that way.

With all the BD players out there IMO Blu ray is losing as they should be outselling HD DVD by a higher margin. If SM3 doesn't do 2-3 times what Transformers did then IMO that is a failure for BD.

If SM3 does 3 times what transformers did you can stick a fork in HDDVD. Toshiba basically paid $150 million for Transformers/Shrek3.

If SM3 does 3 times what transformers did you can stick a fork in HDDVD. Toshiba basically paid $150 million for Transformers/Shrek3.

Well first of all the 150million is a rumour not a fact, some threat a little to much as a fact.

And second the Paramount switch were worth much more then a couple of titles, it really created a great momentum for HD DVD.

I'm pretty sure their accountants can figure out that they are generating revenue from the BD side side right now. And unless someone from Toshiba starts giving out moneyhats to Warner, its gonna to stay that way.

Don't count on it, I'm sure their accountants can see how little they're generating on both combined, and how little both are growing. When you have nothing to loose, you have everything to gain.

If they choose, the whole dynamic changes, because the un-chosen format will loose exclusive support from other entities, and the chosen will gain a much larger market-share based on unflappable consumer confidence and a major bump in unique titles. Warner picking is almost tantamount to a do-over.

Anybody have that chart with pre-BOGO numbers that we can compare and see what BOGO did for sales?

Not to bring up another debate but I think the only way to discuss this comparison fairly is to also compare hardware and software attach rates which explain the differences in sales rankings.

Considering BR has 10-20 times the amount of players out I think the fact that the figures are even close to the same sales rankings shows a complete failure for an attach rate.

Additional reports have shown that production costs could be as high as double that of HD DVD which would then mean an even profit for studios for both formats even with a 2:1 sales ratio

I'd be willing to bet that isn't even close to how Warner phrased their position.

Pretty darn close.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6477849.html

WARNER: We’re talking to both sides and it’s crazy right now. We remain committed to both for the time being. We’ll see how the fourth quarter plays out. The consumer is still kind of divided, and we still believe that we should offer the content in both formats. Now, we will watch the marketplace very closely, and see how it plays out, but for now we are supporting both.

It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware. If they sell through everything they ship, and it’s a big number at the price points that are coming out, then I think [HD DVD] will be around for a long time. If they don’t, then it could go Blu-ray’s way. But Toshiba is getting very, very aggressive on pricing, which is putting pressure on Blu-ray player manufacturers to bring prices down. As a content company we just want more hardware in the homes. So what ever drives more hardware is good to see. Right now it looks like there is price pressure on both sides because there are two formats — more pressure than there would be if there was only one format. So, for our interests, more razors means we’ll sell more razor blades down the road.

.. oh and this one is really interesting too.

http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=3C644C50F0DA47FDA581C56C5FDF5FC7&nm=Hi-Def+News&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=AC6291EF33C14D32889E9C55E986A7B2

Dan Silverberg, VP of high definition media development for Warner Bros., calmed both sides by saying 300 was marketed heavily to PS3 owners, but “it’s dangerous to just rely on gamers. To be reliant on them is something I don’t think either camps wants to do.”

With all the BD players out there IMO Blu ray is losing as they should be outselling HD DVD by a higher margin. If SM3 doesn't do 2-3 times what Transformers did then IMO that is a failure for BD.

+1.

A "gamer" type of title with all those meeeeeeellions of PS3's out there. Should be at LEAST 500,000 first week.

It isnt the current market that will make Warner swing one way or the other. Because if they only looked at that they maybe drops both formats right way.

What warner is interested in is the potential market. And thats were we should focus on, how shall the 2 formats grow?


EXACTLY!

What nobody fails to realize is that Transformers sold 190,000 copies first week on HDM. The best selling title in history beating 300 by what? 20% more?

What nobody realizes is the 4.8 million copies sold on DVD.

Studios all realize they could up and drop Bluray/HD-DVD tomorrow and it would not even pinch them let alone hurt them.

They aren't concerned about losing 30%, 60%, or even 100% of the current HDM hardware owner base because it's such an insignificant population.

They know whatever format they pick, BD, HDDVD, VMD, XYZ, they will force the others into extinction and then push the rest of the DVD owning population to adopt the new format.

Right now they are seeing how the technology is advancing. Give it a few more months and we will see Warner make a firm decision. I don't think they want to produce on two formats forever.

I think when Warner goes HD DVD exclusive the first quarter of 08, their HD DVD sales will be greater shortly thereafter.

Yea. Look what it did for Paramount/Dreamworks. The volume of Transformers and Shreck III will heavily favor HD DVD. Blades of Glory too!

So I am still having trouble understanding the importance of Amazon. We know that they are nowheres near the largest seller of HDM movies - that belongs to BB.

So how important is any stat from Amazon when all it does it represent a small fraction of total sales?

:confused::confused::confused:

If SM3 does 3 times what transformers did you can stick a fork in HDDVD.

Sorry, my silverware drawer is all out. I've been sticking forks in HD-DVD all year long. :rolleyes:

So I am still having trouble understanding the importance of Amazon. We know that they are nowheres near the largest seller of HDM movies - that belongs to BB.

So how important is any stat from Amazon when all it does it represent a small fraction of total sales?

:confused::confused::confused:

We work with what we have. We know Amazon is the #2 retailer and the volumes it moves are likely at least semi-representative. I'm not sure I understand the criticism of looking at the information we have, particularly when we know its shortcomings and have no better information. My understand is that's how much of science works.

No one has answered what Warner is to do with all of the web content they are developing for their movies.

0% of Blu-Ray players support that right now.
Why go with a more expensive format that does not support what they are doing?

EXACTLY!

What nobody fails to realize is that Transformers sold 190,000 copies first week on HDM. The best selling title in history beating 300 by what? 20% more?

No, 300 still has the first week record for HDM as it sold 250,000 copies (since it was a neutral release) in its first week. Transformers does hold the single format (HD DVD) sales record at 190,000 copies sold through first week.

What nobody realizes is the 4.8 million copies sold on DVD.



4.8 million was the first day, 8.3 million was first week and those numbers make the HDM numbers look pathetic.

Is blu-ray a success because it sells more than HD DVD on Amazon?

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Warner doesn't need to follow the numbers, they are the numbers.

The chart does not define success or failure - all it does is show you the current state of play. It is up to the individual to decide what to make of the current state of play.

The chart is not for Warner - they have a much better way to track their sales I am sure.

The reason that there are charts following Amazon is not so much that they are important, but that they supply the information in helpful ways that allow this kind of tracking.

That said, as noted, Amazon is a fairly big player and as such their data is at least interesting, while perhaps not statistically representative.

The data is what it is - and at the coarsest level should at least track major moves in the user install base that even Videoscan will have trouble with in Q4 due to the roller coaster of big exclusive titles that will dominate the Videoscan statistics and don't really give any relative sales numbers.

We might see a few Warner BD versus HD DVD comparisons in Videoscan but really it will be a small percentage of the overall picture.

Personally I think more visibility is interesting and useful, and this chart has its unique aspects.

I can understand those that say that this is just another chart that shows the same thing as all the others - there is a reason that it does...

The reason that there are charts following Amazon is not so much that they are important, but that they supply the information in helpful ways that allow this kind of tracking.

That said, as noted, Amazon is a fairly big player and as such their data is at least interesting, while perhaps not statistically representative.

The data is what it is - and at the coarsest level should at least track major moves in the user install base that even Videoscan will have trouble with in Q4 due to the roller coaster of big exclusive titles that will dominate the Videoscan statistics and don't really give any relative sales numbers.

We might see a few Warner BD versus HD DVD comparisons in Videoscan but really it will be a small percentage of the overall picture.

Personally I think more visibility is interesting and useful, and this chart has its unique aspects.

I can understand those that say that this is just another chart that shows the same thing as all the others - there is a reason that it does...

Amazon has it's own demographic, Best Buy theirs. I see no reason to give BB an extra $3 - $4 per title, others can't part with the thrill of the brick & mortar experience. Amazon is in a mall with all the other on-line entities right at my fingertips, Best Buy is the only game in town for those who do retail. It never surprises me that their market share is a lot larger than Amazon, but it is. No one consumer outlet is a microcosm of the whole.

No one has answered what Warner is to do with all of the web content they are developing for their movies.
Stop developing and save some more cash in the process ;)

They don't really want to sell more things with the web content, I mean, who buy ringtones? :D

I am in favor of Blu-ray due to the greater number of titles with lossless sound, but I think that list is statistically meaningless with the exception of the overall number. Lethal Weapon 1 and Lethal Weapon 2 are on both lists. I think that the numbers are so low as to titles being sold that it just isn't high enough to compare. If I could be told how those movies sold overall, then that would be interesting. I will say when I have been in Best Buy (which is almost once every two weeks) I have never seen an HD-DVD purchased. This, also, is not statistically valid. A big question, however, is what is the ratio of the overall numbers from all the retailers? If one retailer is not getting enough sales, they will eliminate shelf space that leads to a long-term decline.

Can you make a chart for standalone players?

Yes please. Especially true HD 1080P standalone players..

Stop developing and save some more cash in the process ;)


Sure. They can do two seperate encodes of the same movie so that they can do PIP. Something that they are already doing now with BD. :rolleyes:

I think selling 250,000 copies of 300 on Blu-ray compared to half that on HD DVD actually does matter.



How about we instead make one about enduring wasted posts?



Ah, good old AVScience forum where comparing stats and charts is now "stupid".

300 sold 250k copies the first week in both formats...160k BR and 90k HD

this is such a worthless thread..plus the link is to a VERY pro-BR site. Bill Hunt anyone?

has anyone read thedigitalbits lately? Bill quotes the whole Transformers sales numbers but can't help but turn it into something positive for BR and negative for HD DVD...what an ass.

this is such a worthless thread..plus the link is to a VERY pro-BR site. Bill Hunt anyone?

Does the truth differ in truthfulness depending on who is speaking the truth?

Given the huge difference in hardware, should ANY Warner title be selling more on HD DVD? Also, does anyone know how sales rank relates to sales unit?

Hi All,

Just a heads up.

I have provided the Amazon Statistics on the Warner titles that are available on both formats to blu-crew.com for a comparison page.

The page can be seen here (http://www.blu-crew.com/WarnerWars.php)

While this site is a pro blu-ray site, the numbers on this page are purely factual basedInteresting how many HD DVD titles are beating the Bluray titles. I thought this wasn't supposed to be possible?

has anyone read thedigitalbits lately? Bill quotes the whole Transformers sales numbers but can't help but turn it into something positive for BR and negative for HD DVD...what an ass.

It's funny how Bill Hunt is trying to paint Paramount and Dreamworks HD DVD exclusivity in a bad light.

Here's some news for Bill Hunt, you know how many copies of Transformers sold on Blu-Ray? ZERO and that is just the way it is whether he likes it or not

Hey folks the president of Warner already said even with a 2/3 lead for bluray in sales you have to cut 1/3 of that to production costs. So even if Bluray outsells hddvd by a 2:1 ratio from a profit stand point they are dead even. He blatently said returning the profits back to the studio was the number one factor. Also if HDDVD players sell like crazy this xmas which I think they will, being at a far more affordable mass market price point I think that due to Warner already holding many of the patents on hddvd which they hold none on bluray the writing is on the wall. He outright said we are format neutral for now. Meaning at some point Warner is going to have to quit riding 2 horses, which they should have done long ago.

Did you notice that the more popular (mainstream) titles (sales rank <1000) all favor HD-DVD (Except 300 because of hybrid cost). This is because there are fewer mainstream titles available on HD-DVD. Because of the lack of quality titles these HD-DVD people have to take what they can get! Glad I'm not on that side of the fence!;)

How many more years do you guys plan on doing this? Going to optical disc sites, tracking sales data of optical disc, arguing about which kind of optical disc is better... will you all be here next year at this time, arguing over whether BD has 66% or 67% of the market?

We should have a cut-off date. After a certain period of time, everyone should just drop their fan-boy sigs, stop going to optical disc sites, and simply enjoy the movies.

January 15th is as good of a date as any other. Let's make January 15th the cutoff, afterwhich we say we don't give a hoot about any of this anymore.

Did you notice that the more popular (mainstream) titles (sales rank <1000) all favor HD-DVD (Except 300 because of hybrid cost). This is because there are fewer mainstream titles available on HD-DVD. Because of the lack of quality titles these HD-DVD people have to take what they can get! Glad I'm not on that side of the fence!;)

Lack of quality titles on HD DVD...

I knew I never should of purchased crap movies Apollo 13, Seabiscuit and Top Gun on HD DVD!!! Instead I should of purchased the high quality Blu-Ray exclusives like Ultraviolet! Little Man! Are We Done Yet! Blue Crush! I am certainly missing all those Blu-Ray mainstream titles :rolleyes:

Lack of quality titles on HD DVD...
I knew I never should of purchased crap movies Apollo 13, Seabiscuit and Top Gun on HD DVD!!!
Good job of listing the HD DVD cream, too bad its such a short list...

Good job of listing the HD DVD cream, too bad its such a short list...

Sorry, but HD DVD has many high quality movies, probably more than Blu-Ray.

I prefer movies like The Bourne Identity over Delta Farce. Then again that is just my opinion and I am sure the vast majority of Blu-Boys will completely disagree.

But each to his own.

Did you notice that the more popular (mainstream) titles (sales rank <1000) all favor HD-DVD (Except 300 because of hybrid cost). This is because there are fewer mainstream titles available on HD-DVD. Because of the lack of quality titles these HD-DVD people have to take what they can get! Glad I'm not on that side of the fence!;)

I do believe its more due to the fact that all of the BD's are out of stock....sans clockwork with 2 copies.....i think people ar emerely looking into other avenues whereas the HD DVD titls have had no problem staying in stock for whatever reason.

Sorry, but HD DVD has many high quality movies, probably more than Blu-Ray.

I prefer movies like The Bourne Identity over Delta Farce. Then again that is just my opinion and I am sure the vast majority of Blu-Boys will completely disagree.

But each to his own.

You're kidding, right? Are your glasses tinted this red? (well, your sig explains it all..)

Sure BD has it's fair share of stinkers, as do HDDVD. Both formats also have some exclusive movies that are great.

I started putting together my wishlist for both formats, and found more on the bd side than the hddvd side. Granted I lean towards blockbusters, animation etc. (Yes, I'm shallow ;)

You're kidding, right? Are your glasses tinted this red? (well, your sig explains it all..)

Sure BD has it's fair share of stinkers, as do HDDVD. Both formats also have some exclusive movies that are great.

I started putting together my wishlist for both formats, and found more on the bd side than the hddvd side. Granted I lean towards blockbusters, animation etc. (Yes, I'm shallow ;)

Am I kidding? No, absolutely not. The Bourne Identity is much better than Delta Farce, and I know many Blu-Ray owners disagree, which is why I interjected with the comment "my opinion"

Blu-Ray has a lot of great movies. But right now HD DVD has more movies that I like. Hence the entire "my opinion" comment.

And what does my sig have to do with Bourne Identity or Delta Farce :confused:

How many more years do you guys plan on doing this? Going to optical disc sites, tracking sales data of optical disc, arguing about which kind of optical disc is better... will you all be here next year at this time, arguing over whether BD has 66% or 67% of the market?

We should have a cut-off date. After a certain period of time, everyone should just drop their fan-boy sigs, stop going to optical disc sites, and simply enjoy the movies.

January 15th is as good of a date as any other. Let's make January 15th the cutoff, afterwhich we say we don't give a hoot about any of this anymore.Because some of them are paid trolls who do this for a living. That's why. Just look at their number of posts and when they joined AVS. Then see what part of the forum they have posted in and then you get the true picture, Sir. They are currently trying to get this thread locked and deleted, because it does not serve for the betterment of HD DVD!

Considering BR has 10-20 times the amount of players out I think the fact that the figures are even close to the same sales rankings shows a complete failure for an attach rate.It seems like we've been over this before, but where is this claim of "10-20 times the amount of player out" coming from? Are you using worldwide for hardware as some do in a discussion that is mostly about US or NA software sales? If not, please explain the 10-20 times claim. xboxboi seems to be out to deceive people with his signature where he claims 10x and then uses software numbers that are US or NA and has continued to leave that even after it was pointed out, but I'm wondering if other people are getting these claims of 10x and higher from him, just making them up out of thin air, getting them from somebody else, etc., or using worldwide for hardware to compare to US or NA for software, instead of choosing to use hardware ratios for the same region or close to the same region as the software being discussed.

--Darin

Blue Crush!

I didn't know Blue Crush was out on BD!

If you are going to be sarcastic, you could at least be accurately sarcastic :D

Not to bring up another debate but I think the only way to discuss this comparison fairly is to also compare hardware and software attach rates which explain the differences in sales rankings.

Considering BR has 10-20 times the amount of players out I think the fact that the figures are even close to the same sales rankings shows a complete failure for an attach rate.

Additional reports have shown that production costs could be as high as double that of HD DVD which would then mean an even profit for studios for both formats even with a 2:1 sales ratio

nice, nice :) did you ever checked number of players ?
or do you pick 10-20 times just to show you your ability to spin numbers ?
double production cost ? any links to back up this pure BS ?

M.

Transformers Audio Perfect?
Giving Transformers a perfect score for it's DD+ audio quaity is like
giving Corky a gold medal for his first place finish at the Special Olympics

People shouldn't be allowed to put such inflammatory things in their sigs, it just encourages off topic posts as people can't let it go without replying.

Your annology is deeply deeply flawed. A better annology being Corky winning the special Olympics then heading over the proper Olympics and coming in first there too.

People aren't comparing Transformers audio to just other DD+ tracks they are comparing it to all other tracks be they DD+ or lossless.

Sorry, but HD DVD has many high quality movies, probably more than Blu-Ray.

I prefer movies like Blades of Glory over John Carpenter's Halloween. Then again that is just my opinion and I am sure the vast majority of Blu-Boys will completely disagree.

But each to his own.

Fixed. ;)

nice, nice :) did you ever checked number of players ?
or do you pick 10-20 times just to show you your ability to spin numbers ?
double production cost ? any links to back up this pure BS ?

M.

All the info you need can be found right here on AVS so do you own search :eek:

All the info you need can be found right here on AVS so do you own search :eek:

I would like to see that 20times number of BD players :eek:

It seems like we've been over this before, but where is this claim of "10-20 times the amount of player out" coming from? Are you using worldwide for hardware as some do in a discussion that is mostly about US or NA software sales? --Darin
Darin, why not start a hardware "sticky"? So everyone can keep track of PS3 (and equivalent player estimates), AO, BD and HD SA's, US, Europe, Japan, etc. Global sales. It would also have to track sources. It's a job, but would be useful.

I don't know his thinking, but the ratio of "decks" is large.

I would like to see that 20times number of BD players :eek:

PS3 sold worldwide is what total?

Fixed. ;)

If you prefer Blades of Glory over Halloween that's cool. Though in that case I have to say I prefer neither.

PS3 sold worldwide is what total?

Using VGChartz as my source:
5.12 Million PS3s worldwide.

By the way, since we are talking worldwide sales, can you give me the data for the following (since I assume you would have it before making claims about the worldwide *ratios*)

Source for worldwide HD DVD player sales including 360 add-on?
Source for worldwide Blu-ray disk sales?
Source for worldwide HD DVD disk sales?

I'll be honest, I don't have any of those figures. Mainly the only data I know is for North America. I didn't even realize that groups had released the worldwide figures, but obviously I must have missed it.

Respond when you've got the data and sources.

Interesting how many HD DVD titles are beating the Bluray titles. I thought this wasn't supposed to be possible?

Why would that not be possible?

You shouldn't place conceptual limits on HD DVD...

Though I am glad that at least one HD DVD supporters finds it interesting.

Am I kidding? No, absolutely not. The Bourne Identity is much better than Delta Farce, and I know many Blu-Ray owners disagree, which is why I interjected with the comment "my opinion"

Blu-Ray has a lot of great movies. But right now HD DVD has more movies that I like. Hence the entire "my opinion" comment.

And what does my sig have to do with Bourne Identity or Delta Farce :confused:

compare apples and apples for God's sake. Bourne Ultimatum vs Live Free or Die Hard for instance.. Transformers vs Spiderman 3 etc....

Edit: realised you had a question regarding your sig. Sorry, I meant your nickname, which clearly states which camp you are in.

Currently 69 titles rank higher on Blu-ray Disc and 17 rank higher on HD DVD, but this changes pretty much every hour.

Currently 50/36. The ratio is 1.31. HD DVD is gaining ground. Will this page stay up when HD DVD takes the lead? Or will it disappear?

Currently 50/36. The ratio is 1.31. HD DVD is gaining ground. Will this page stay up when HD DVD takes the lead? Or will it disappear?Ah, will I still eat bacon when pigs fly?