Hey guys,
I am trying to wire up my Insteon stuff for the threatre, and I have a large stair well that leads up to it, at the bottom of the stairs is a three way switch that connects to the top of the stairs light. With the 2nd switch on the top of the stairs.

I would like to replace both these switches with insteon, but I require a neutral wire at the bottom of the stairs, ( I have one at the top ).

Is there a way to bring a neutral down to the bottom of the stairs using one of the traveler wires? I no longer need the three way switch as I will be linking them with insteon so either switch can control the light.

Any help would be much appreciated, I can take pictures as well if that would help.

Thanks in advance!

No neutral? That's odd...

With Insteon 3-way switches I don't think they use the traveler wire. The wiring diagrams I've seen show it capped off at both ends. I suppose you could tie that to the neutral at the top and use that. Just a thought as I'm no electrician. So don't blame me if you get zapped :D

Their is no neutral on the switch at the bottom of the stairs, the top of the stairs has a neutral.

The bottom of the stairs has:
Black
Ground
Red
White with black electrical tape on it.

Both the red and white wires are connected to the traveler part of the switch.

If you don't need the travelers to make the Insteon 3 way work...then take the black tape off of the white wire and attached the other end to the neutral at the top of the stairs. Now you have a neutral at the bottom of the stairs and the colors of the wiring is correct.

Ray

Thanks! thats just what I needed to know!

And what would I do with the red wire just cap it?

Yep, cap off the red wire that doesn't go to anything.

Wiring diagram attached...

Thanks guys, i'll do it tonight hopefully and report back

Ok guys, nothing can be simple right?

So, took everything apart and took a nice long look before changing anything, and low and behond something doesnt make sense to me ( the presence of a 3rd sheeth at the top of the stairs).

If anyone can explain or better yet, tell me how to fix it =) I would really appreciate it...

Here is what I got:

Bottom Stair Switch
---------------------
Grnd
Red ( connected to traveler )
White ( with black tape ) connected to common on switch
black ( connected to traveler )

Top stair switch ( this is where things get interesting )
----------------------------------------------------
Sheeth #1
Black - Goes to common on switch
White - Tied to white from sheath #2
Ground

Sheeth #2
Black - Connected to white wire with black tape in sheeth #3
White - white tied to white in sheeth 1
Ground

Sheeth #3
Black - tied to traveler
White with black tape - Tied to black from sheeth #2
Red - tied to traveler
Grnd

all grounds are tied together for all sheeths

I think this is what is happening.

At the top of the stairs you've got the power coming in (sheeth #1), wires to the light (sheeth #2), and the wires going to the bottom switch (sheeth #3). The white wire with black tape is being used as a hot wire to the bottom switch.

Here is a diagram:
http://www.the-home-improvement-web.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch-option3.htm

The one difference though between the diagram and your wiring is the fixture is wired to the same box as the switch (top of stairs) with a 14-2 wire and not in-between with the 14-3 wire.

I'm just not sure how you'd Insteaon that configuration. You might have to call their support number for this one :)

Like I said, I think this is what's going on. If anyone else knows please chime in.

Andy

So, if I am thinking correctly, you believe sheath #2 is coming from the light?

My thoughts were maybe sheeth #2 was another circuit somehow???

It might be possible that the power coming in on sheeth one is just passing through and going back out on sheeth 2. Good thought. To check, go to the light fixture and see if there are two 14-3 (3 conductor plus ground) wires coming into the box. If there are then you'll match the diagram and sheeth 2 is indeed power just passing through.

Yah, unfortunately, I dont have access to the fixture its in a recessed light with no access without taking the light apart.

I am going to try to run to big blue after work today for a circuit tester to see if power is indeed coming thru both wires from different circuits or something else wierd.

OK...Sheeth #1 goes to the light. Sheeth #2 is the power coming in and Sheeth #3 goes to the switch at the bottom of the stairs.

Ray

thanks i will try this weekend I picked up a circuit tester on the way home today.

OK...Sheeth #1 goes to the light. Sheeth #2 is the power coming in and Sheeth #3 goes to the switch at the bottom of the stairs.

Ray

Right on the money! Thanks a ton you guys!

Ahh, everything is all insteoned up and ready to play with =).

Retro'ing a 3-way to Insteon is not fun. I had a few trials and errors myself.

Did you have any trouble programming the one switch to control the other one? I haven't got mine all worked out yet. I can turn the lights off from the main switch or from my tabletop control but for some reason I can't quite get it programmed from the other insteon dimmer.

Hrms, mine seems to be working perfect, the only issue I have is if I turn off the light at the top of the stairs, the toggle link at the bottom of the stairs light doesnt glow, so someone has to actually press it down to make that little light glow ( you can't see the switch at the bottom of the stairwell at night, so the glow is kinda important ).

Did you cap the red wire from the insteon switch at the slave location?

Here is what I did if it helps:
I took the black tape off the white wire at both switch locations and wrapped all the whites together at the top of the stairs including the insteon white.

I took the common wire at the top of the stairs and connected it to the red wire on the insteon switch.

I tied all the remaining black wires together.

I capped the red wire coming from sheeth 3 ( it controls nothing now ).

I added my ground from the insteon to the other grounds.

At the bottom of the stairs, I capped both red wires ( 1 from the top of the stairs, 1 on the insteon device )

I connected, white, black and ground to there respective counter parts.

Hope this helps....

Hey, glad you got it working. Those 3-ways can be a pain. Hmm, or they can be fun ;)

It wasnt that bad once I figured out (thanks large part to you and ray906) where everything was goings, my biggest issue was fitting the keypadlink into the box with all the wires and wire nuts, it's very cramped in their =P. I was just going to cut the red wire in both boxes for more room, but fortunately the little voice inside my head told me it might come in handy one day, and to leave it...

Thanks again!

Hrms, mine seems to be working perfect, the only issue I have is if I turn off the light at the top of the stairs, the toggle link at the bottom of the stairs light doesnt glow, so someone has to actually press it down to make that little light glow ( you can't see the switch at the bottom of the stairwell at night, so the glow is kinda important ).of the stairs, 1 on the insteon device )
....

That because you only have the switches linked in one direction. You need to cross link them so that when you control the master switch it directs the slave to "turn on/tunr off". This will synconize the lights on the toggle switches.

Sweet, I will give that a shot tonight, thanks Cathan, I was affraid to do this because there is no load on the slave switch, ie the red wire is capped, i'll give it a go!

Yep. Just do the same thing you did to link the slave to the master so to link the master to the slave.

Yep. Just do the same thing you did to link the slave to the master so to link the master to the slave.

Worked like a charm, thanks man!

Excellent!! :)

It wasnt that bad once I figured out (thanks large part to you and ray906) where everything was goings, my biggest issue was fitting the keypadlink into the box with all the wires and wire nuts, it's very cramped in their =P. I was just going to cut the red wire in both boxes for more room, but fortunately the little voice inside my head told me it might come in handy one day, and to leave it...

Thanks again!

That little voice in your head was right on the money.....

Ray

Good to know! Actually it's funny because I learned that lesson from a thermostat wire, I had one of my wires go bad, but I had cut the others, so I had to repull the whole thing, instead of just switching a wire color.

Doh!

Thanks again Ray!