Can you help me pick a Prepro that will meet the needs I outlined below? I have included my equipment list.

I have 2 High Res sources so I would like something with 5.1 HDMI Audio, or at least two 5.1 Analog Inputs with true Bypass. I would also like 5.1 Balanced Outputs. Of course, I would like similar quality sound to the Halcro I have.

My price limit is $8500, and buying used is fine.

Please don't suggest items that WILL meet my need with a later upgrade. Halcro burnt me with the "upgrade coming soon crap". Please limit suggestions to the here and now.

Some Prepros that seem to fit the need are listed below. Please let me know of other candidates.

Anthem D2
Lexicon MC12B-HD


Current Equipment List:
Front Speakers: B&W 802D
Center Speaker: B&W HTM2D
Rear Speakers: B&W 804S
Sub: JL Audio F112
Sub EQ: Velo SMS-1
Prepro: Halcro SSP-100 ***Want to replace this***
Amps L-C-R: (3) Classe CAM-350
Amp (Rears): Classe CA-201
Source Universal: Denon 3930ci (High Res via HDMI or Analog 5.1)
Source HD-DVD: Toshiba HD-A1 (High Res via HDMI or Analog 5.1)
Source Cable: Comcast SA 8300HD
Source Flac Files: Sonos ZP80

Thanks,
Darrell

"Lexicon MC12-HD"

Just for confirmation sake if you are looking for Balanced outputs you want a MC-12B HD. The other option or not is if it has Room EQ.

Shawn

just curious on why the Halcro's current version is not sufficient in your case?

or at least two 5.1 Analog Inputs with true Bypass.

MC-12 only has 1 5.1 analog input, but depending on what you're using it for, HDMI could obviate the need, or you can use something like the Zektor and Shawn's Universal Translator (http://www.switch-box.com) to get more inputs.

--Andre

Ssabrino,

I don't want to turn this into a "is Halcro good or bad" type thread so I will answer this consicely, as it may help people make better recommendations for my next Prepro.

1) I am on Halcro's HDMI Audio upgrade list, but it still may be months before I actually have HDMI Audio. Right now, I am having to run my HD-DVD through a Coax connection (no TRuHD), or through Non-Bypassed Analog in (I am using the one Bypassed connection for DVD-A and SACD).

2) I am tired of having to beg Halcro for even the most basic information. Thier Customer Service flat out sucks, unless you can get to second tier support, on a good day.

I would be happy to answer any other Halcro related queries in the Halcro thread, or in PM.

Thanks,
Darrell

just curious on why the Halcro's current version is not sufficient in your case?

"Lexicon MC12-HD"

Just for confirmation sake if you are looking for Balanced outputs you want a MC-12B HD. The other option or not is if it has Room EQ.

Shawn


Shawn,

Thanks for the correction. I will update the first post.

Darrell

Please let me know of other candidates.They may be hard to find at the moment, but another candidate would be the Integra DTC-9.8. I helped a friend set one up recently. The noise floor was dead quiet, with clear and dynamic sound. It includes decoders for all the new HD audio codecs, direct decoding of DSD signals, balanced outs, HDMI 1.3, Audyssey room correction, etc. Unfortunately it doesn't have two 5.1-channel analogue inputs, just one 7.1-channel analogue input. Don't let the relatively low price ($1600 MSRP) dissuade you.

Sanjay

Sanjay,

Interesting suggestion...

How would you compare the SQ of the Integra to say a Lex MC12B, Lex MC4, or a Halcro.

If it has HDMI Audio, I only need one set of 7.1 Inputs, so spec-wise, ths would fit the requirements.

Thanks,
Darrell

The Anthem D2 (MSRP $6,699) + Audyssey EQ Pro kit (MSRP $3,000) can provide you a wealth of opportunities. It's slightly over your budget but it could be worth it depending on your needs.


The new Denon unit coming out soon at $7,500 is hard to ignore with the array of features stacked in it.

Darrell,

Since you mentioned the D2 in your initial post, there have been some comparisons of the D2 to the Onyko in this thread from owners who sold their D2's for the 9.8. The Onkyo's are in short supply from what I've heard and are difficult to find. They list at $1,600, but Onkyo from what I read admits underpricing this piece. I think Kal R. is doing a review in a future issue of Stereophile.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873877

How would you compare the SQ of the Integra to say a Lex MC12B, Lex MC4, or a Halcro.Hard to compare since they were in different systems. I've only heard the Halcro in dealer showrooms, never heard the MC-4, listened to the Anthem D2 in a few homes (members of our local HT club), listened to the MC-12HD in my system as well a couple of friends' systems. Needless to say, differences in speakers + room will swamp differences in electronics.

I helped set up the Integra in a dedicated HT where I had previously heard the Proceed AVP and Lexicon DC-1, amongst other pre-pros. Since all of them weren't in the system at the same time, any comparisons are based on memory. I did use the same CDs with all the pre-pros.

With those disclaimers out of the way...

Clarity wise, the Integra was on par with the Proceed; if anything the 9.8 was a little clearer on analogue passthrough and unprocessed digital signals. The noise floor was noticeably better with the Integra. This really helped with soundstage imaging and vocal/dialogue intelligibility. Keep in mind how much older the other two pre-pros are. Parts/components that were state of the art 10 years ago can be had for much less now.

Surround processing on the Integra (PLIIx) was not as adjustable/customizable as the surround processing on the DC-1 (LOGIC7). The biggest difference came from activating the Audyssey room correction, even during 2-speaker playback. BTW, I mentioned those items because they're not mere bells-n-whistles. Features that can expand & stabilize the soundstage or peel back some of the room's unwanted sonic contributions definitely have an impact on sound quality.

The 9.8 lacks the surround processing, multi-sub support and intuitive user interface that I'm used to on my MC-12, but otherwise it is a terrific pre-pro. Unfortunately, Integra priced it too low for some folks to take it seriously (I've talked to a couple of people that dismissed solely on price). Their loss.

The only other downside is that dealers are having trouble getting stock. From some of the reports in the Integra 9.8 thread, some dealers are saying February at the earliest. Understandable if that's a dealbreaker for you.

Sanjay

Sanjay,

Thanks for the comparisons. I greatly appreciate it.

I will keep a look out for these, but if they are really backordered until February, there is a 50/50 chance my Halcro could have it's HDMI Upgrade done, and most of the bugs shaken out by then.

What would you buy if you were going to buy today?

Many Thanks,
Darrell

Check out the EMMlabs Switchman + external processor of your choice.

Im using an Arcam AV9 and a Zektor witch until there are quality units available doing HDMI audio. I cannot say enough about the quality of Arcam's sound.

Not sure if this unit qualify in the Ultra high-end gear part of the forum, but Denon AVP-A1 HD seems connection and feature wise to be the best qualified product. What sonic quality we can expect i don`t know though...
http://www.avland.co.uk/denon/avpa1hd/rearlrg.jpg

If you're going to use Audyssey, I can almost guarantee that NAD has the best implementation. I tried the stock Pro unit and felt it made the sound too lean in the bass, too aggressive in the treble. NAD apparently felt the same way and had Paul Barton create a more natural sounding target curve.

The downside is the NAD doesn't have balanced out, but that is not a terribly significant contribution to sound quality, whereas well done room/speaker correction is. It also has 4 HDMIs and modular construction. Probably too inexpensive though.

If you're going to use Audyssey, I can almost guarantee that NAD has the best implementation. I tried the stock Pro unit and felt it made the sound too lean in the bass, too aggressive in the treble.With any of the optional curves?????

With any of the optional curves?????

Yes. With all of them. The bass was clean, but almost non existent. But the hard part for me was the upper mids/treble. Very forward, IMO. At least with my speakers. That was my point to them, that unless they've tried every room with every speaker and every customer, there is no one right target curve.

??? I found most of them a little soft and rolled-off in the treble.

I can't explain it, I'm just telling you what happened. It may not even be brightness, but it certainly was harsh. Maybe they changed something in your unit. But they basically told me that there was only one right answer, one right sound. But that doesn't do you any good if you don't like it. The guys are Audyssey are geniuses, but they are really just, well, nerd scientists dealing with the theoretical. Paul Barton knows how to deal with reality and is an expert in correlating objective sound with subjective preferences. That is what was the missing ingredient for me.

I think we're getting a bit OT though......

What would you buy if you were going to buy today?I voted with my wallet a couple months ago and got the MC-12HD, selling my non-HD version to get it. Better value when bought used, as a couple of folks in the Halcro thread mentioned doing recently. It isn't cheap, which is why you'll always see me suggest good alternatives. I'd rather see someone spend their money on a pre-pro that's a better fit for their needs instead of wasting their money on unique features that they'll never end up taking advantage of.

Many people, especially in the high end crowd, buy pre-pros because they want a multi-channel pre-amp (2 channels = 2 speakers, 5.1 material uses 5.1 speakers, still waiting for 7.1 material to show up before doing a 7.1 speaker layout, etc). Completely valid approach, and something that the MC-12HD can do quite well. But most Lexicon owners I know bought their surround processors for the surround processing (music, more than movies). Which is why I bought the 12D.

Sanjay

I can't explain it, I'm just telling you what happened. It may not even be brightness, but it certainly was harsh. Maybe they changed something in your unit. But they basically told me that there was only one right answer, one right sound. But that doesn't do you any good if you don't like it. The guys are Audyssey are geniuses, but they are really just, well, nerd scientists dealing with the theoretical. Paul Barton knows how to deal with reality and is an expert in correlating objective sound with subjective preferences. That is what was the missing ingredient for me.

I think we're getting a bit OT though......Probably but, while I have great respect for PB, a target curve is a target curve and, at least until the NAD arrives chez moi, I will stick with FLAT (and use tone controls ad lib).

Oh, I agree, but for those that like/need the room correction, it helps if the top end sounds better than the normal curve.

My beef was that the correction should have had a % attached to above 1000Hz and below 1000Hz so you could dial in the *amount* of correction applied. That allows you to scale back the result if you think it goes too far. They said they liked the idea, but then pretended like it didn't exist when I talked to them later, so I finally returned the unit, much to my disappointment. Still haven't heard the NAD's correction, so it could be not as good as flat either, but will soon.

GoodSound -

Just a quick couple of comments about the D2. While I typically haven't heard big differences between prepros and amps, as a former owner of the D2 and matching A5 amp, I felt the sound was a little on the bright and forward side. Now, being objective about this, the slight brightness I heard could be interpreted as transparent and detailed, depending on your speakers and your personal perspective on sound quality. I don't wish to overstate what I heard though. The difference was very subtle, but I really didn't want ANY added brightness in my system which is one of the reasons I sold the D2 soon after I bought it. I really wish Anthem would have offered a model without the expensive video processor and put that money into the audio side.

The dealbreaker was that I could not get my Pronto Universal remote to learn the codes from the Anthem remote. Several of the key functions, like power on/off and accessing the set-up menu required holding a button for couple of seconds. No matter what I tried, even hex IR codes, I could not get the IR codes to function consistently with my universal. This may seem like a minor issue, but I have created an extensive custom GUI in the pronto that my wife relies on to control our system.

Just some things to be aware of. Please listen for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Also ask your dealer if you can borrow the remote to see if it is compatible with your universal.

wow....

How's about a little patience? I had the Lex before the Halcro, and I wouldn't go back. The SSP is sonically way superior to me. I can't believe one would consider this downgrade. I didn't have the HD version, but from an audio standpoint other than the direct digital path, I don't know why one would do this, especially in light of the "pending" upgrade. I'm sure that when you get the LPCM upgrade it will have made the wait that much more worthwhile. This is even without regards to the superiority of the video. Yes the wait is frustrating, but to me the only prepros that are of equal sonic quality are the Theta Casablanca with xtreme DACS, ML40 or the Meridian 861 (have had or had all three). All which are much higher in price, but none offer the same flexibility or digital path you are looking for.

Cheers,

Edward

I must say though, that Lexicon looks pretty sweet.

wow....

How's about a little patience? I had the Lex before the Halcro, and I wouldn't go back. The SSP is sonically way superior to me. I can't believe one would consider this downgrade. I didn't have the HD version, but from an audio standpoint other than the direct digital path, I don't know why one would do this, especially in light of the "pending" upgrade. I'm sure that when you get the LPCM upgrade it will have made the wait that much more worthwhile. This is even without regards to the superiority of the video. Yes the wait is frustrating, but to me the only prepros that are of equal sonic quality are the Theta Casablanca with xtreme DACS, ML40 or the Meridian 861 (have had or had all three). All which are much higher in price, but none offer the same flexibility or digital path you are looking for.

Cheers,

Edward

Care to expand on the feeling that the Halcro is "sonically way superior" to the Lex? You must have liked the Lex when you bought it, so what changed? I also can't help but think that since you didn't have the HD version of the MC-12, that the Halcro is your first exposure to lossless surround over HDMI. Of course that is going to sound better than the lossy suround you were used to with the MC-12 (non HD). Besides, everything is so subjective in this hobby. The perceived sound quality of a given component depends on the rest of the system, especially the speakers, not to mention your preferences for a certain type of sound. What you call detailed, I may consider bright and so on.

Krell's new S-1000 pre/pro has HDMI, 7.1 analog in and balanced out, true bypass. Will have an HDMI 1.3 upgrade w/TrueHD and DTS-MA decoding available soon (Dec?). (FWIW: Krell is excellent in terms of communication and accessibility - I've always found Krell people very candid/forthcoming, and have always gotten straight answers from them. They're a pleasure to deal with).
I believe the cost including the 1.3 upgrade is around $8.5K.
http://www.krellonline.com/krell_component.php?id=105&page=kavS1000

I currently have the HTS 7.1 and love it - will be upgrading to the Evolution 707 shortly when it's released.

Rider,

Don't fall for the marketing crap. Krell has HDMI video switching, not HDMI audio. HUGE difference.

Krell service is ok, as long as you don't call when their one Service person is on vacation, or at a conference, or sick. One time I had an issue I was told the service guy was out for the next week, and to call back then. WTF???

Darrell




Krell's new S-1000 pre/pro has HDMI, 7.1 analog in and balanced out, true bypass. Will have an HDMI 1.3 upgrade w/TrueHD and DTS-MA decoding available soon (Dec?). (FWIW: Krell is excellent in terms of communication and accessibility - I've always found Krell people very candid/forthcoming, and have always gotten straight answers from them. They're a pleasure to deal with).
I believe the cost including the 1.3 upgrade is around $8.5K.
http://www.krellonline.com/krell_component.php?id=105&page=kavS1000

I currently have the HTS 7.1 and love it - will be upgrading to the Evolution 707 shortly when it's released.

Im using an Arcam AV9 and a Zektor witch until there are quality units available doing HDMI audio. I cannot say enough about the quality of Arcam's sound.


I tried to audition this twice from a local dealer. He said I could borrow the unit Friday at close and that I had to have it back buy the time they opened the next morning.

NEXT!!!

I appreciate the suggestion. It would be worth trying if I had a different dealer.

Darrell

If you're going to use Audyssey, I can almost guarantee that NAD has the best implementation. I tried the stock Pro unit and felt it made the sound too lean in the bass, too aggressive in the treble. NAD apparently felt the same way and had Paul Barton create a more natural sounding target curve.

The downside is the NAD doesn't have balanced out, but that is not a terribly significant contribution to sound quality, whereas well done room/speaker correction is. It also has 4 HDMIs and modular construction. Probably too inexpensive though.

Too inexpensive???

The sound and functionality matter most. Inexpensive is a plus in my book.

The item I bought from you a few months ago was inexpensive, and I am thrilled with it. It does just what it is supposed to do, and does it with out hassle. the company provides great support too. What else could you ask for?

I voted with my wallet a couple months ago and got the MC-12HD, selling my non-HD version to get it. Better value when bought used, as a couple of folks in the Halcro thread mentioned doing recently. It isn't cheap, which is why you'll always see me suggest good alternatives. I'd rather see someone spend their money on a pre-pro that's a better fit for their needs instead of wasting their money on unique features that they'll never end up taking advantage of.

Many people, especially in the high end crowd, buy pre-pros because they want a multi-channel pre-amp (2 channels = 2 speakers, 5.1 material uses 5.1 speakers, still waiting for 7.1 material to show up before doing a 7.1 speaker layout, etc). Completely valid approach, and something that the MC-12HD can do quite well. But most Lexicon owners I know bought their surround processors for the surround processing (music, more than movies). Which is why I bought the 12D.

Sanjay


Thanks for the feedback Sanjay.

The Halcro prices are dropping fast. I will need sell the Halcro AND still put up ~$3,500 to get into the Lex. Tough decision, but it may be worth the price to get decent support and lessen the frustration level. Afterall, owning nice gear is supposed to be fun, isn't it?

Rider,

Don't fall for the marketing crap. Krell has HDMI video switching, not HDMI audio. HUGE difference.

Krell service is ok, as long as you don't call when their one Service person is on vacation, or at a conference, or sick. One time I had an issue I was told the service guy was out for the next week, and to call back then. WTF???

Darrell

You didn't read my post. I said the upcoming 1.3 upgrade will have TrueHD and DTS-MA decoding.

Last week I called Krell w/some technical questions - the tech sales guy wasn't there, so Randi D'Agostino answered the phone. She didn't know the answers to my questions, so she immediately transferred me to Dan D'Agostino (founder and CEO). He was very nice and spent a lot of time answering my questions. (I had never spoken to either of them before).

Re: service - I haven't always gotten the head service guy on the phone when I called, but he always responded within 1 day to emails.

I read yor post.

You didnt read my first post where I said I am only looking at things that meet my spec now. I am not interested in what people WILL/MAY release later.

But thanks for trying to help. It is appreciated Rider.

Ssabrino,

I don't want to turn this into a "is Halcro good or bad" type thread so I will answer this consicely, as it may help people make better recommendations for my next Prepro.

1) I am on Halcro's HDMI Audio upgrade list, but it still may be months before I actually have HDMI Audio. Right now, I am having to run my HD-DVD through a Coax connection (no TRuHD), or through Non-Bypassed Analog in (I am using the one Bypassed connection for DVD-A and SACD).

2) I am tired of having to beg Halcro for even the most basic information. Thier Customer Service flat out sucks, unless you can get to second tier support, on a good day.

I would be happy to answer any other Halcro related queries in the Halcro thread, or in PM.

Thanks,
Darrell

Darrell,

I can understand, so no worries. I was just curious, because I was pretty shocked at how well the SSP80 did in HT, and how close it was with the Proceed AVP2 in music. But nonetheless, I understand.

for what is worth, I am still using a Proceed AVP2+6 matched with a Zektor switcher. I just cannot let go of the Proceed as I have yet to found something that sounds anywhere close to it in 2-channel music and analog passthrough, and anything that will clearly beat it in multi-channel or HT use............and that list of auditions (in house, dealer, friends) include the Anthem D2, Lexicon MC-12B HD, Halcro SSP80.

ARCAM! Great recommendation above but not sure if meets your needs with switching. I can personally vouch for it as I went from an Arcam 350 Receiver to the Halcro SSP100 with a very good BAT multichannel amp and had at the time B&W 803S HTM3S SCMS and was disappointed with the result, couldn't wait to sell the Halcro and ended up going back to the 350 and very happy to do so. I can't imagine how good the AV9 could be with those Classes. This doesn't really apply to your situation because perhaps the ARCAM amplification as well as the processing was responsible but the ARCAM/B&W synergy was something to hear and to my taste outperformed the SSP100/BAT6200 combo. If you can give ARCAM a home audition I don't think you'd be disappointed. I'd almost go as far to say try the 350, you might be surprised and it might do it all for you sonically(other than the hdmi switching) and with the cash you get from selling your 100 and classes you can get another upgrade somewhere else!

Darrell,

I can understand, so no worries. I was just curious, because I was pretty shocked at how well the SSP80 did in HT, and how close it was with the Proceed AVP2 in music. But nonetheless, I understand.

for what is worth, I am still using a Proceed AVP2+6 matched with a Zektor switcher. I just cannot let go of the Proceed as I have yet to found something that sounds anywhere close to it in 2-channel music and analog passthrough, and anything that will clearly beat it in multi-channel or HT use............and that list of auditions (in house, dealer, friends) include the Anthem D2, Lexicon MC-12B HD, Halcro SSP80.

I have heard good things about the AVP+6. I will keep a look out for that rare bird. lol

ARCAM! Great recommendation above but not sure if meets your needs with switching. I can personally vouch for it as I went from an Arcam 350 Receiver to the Halcro SSP100 with a very good BAT multichannel amp and had at the time B&W 803S HTM3S SCMS and was disappointed with the result, couldn't wait to sell the Halcro and ended up going back to the 350 and very happy to do so. I can't imagine how good the AV9 could be with those Classes. This doesn't really apply to your situation because perhaps the ARCAM amplification as well as the processing was responsible but the ARCAM/B&W synergy was something to hear and to my taste outperformed the SSP100/BAT6200 combo. If you can give ARCAM a home audition I don't think you'd be disappointed. I'd almost go as far to say try the 350, you might be surprised and it might do it all for you sonically(other than the hdmi switching) and with the cash you get from selling your 100 and classes you can get another upgrade somewhere else!

Good call.I also use 2 AVR350s and would say that it still leads the pack for receiver sound quality. I dropped one in the big system when it was being calibrated and the difference between the 350 and the AV9 was far far smaller than I expected.

I also use the Arcam FMJ139 DVD palyer and find it outstanding and quite easily the best DVD player and CD palyer I've ever used. Pure sound quality.

It's too bad that the Denon is delayed. I was about to suggest the McIntosh MX136, but a quick look at their website leaves one very confused about HDMI audio (or lack thereof). Of currently shipping products, this thread has already covered the 3 I know of that meet the initial spec: Anthem, Lexicon, and Integra.

Honestly? Now is about the worst time in the world to buy a surround sound preamp. Next year, maybe.

Yeah, those 350's are really something, perhaps the best kept secret in audio. Huge bang for buck there!

CM: did you use the 350's amp section when you moved it to your *big system* or just use it as a preamp? I was not as impressed with it as a preamp only which was surprising considering what I was hearing and the quality of the dacs and using the receiver's amps. My feeling at the time was the preamp outs may for perhaps design and cost considerations have cut some corners, but I'm not an EE so I couldn't tell for sure and I did only try them on the BAT so maybe it was an input impedance mismatch, who knows.

I have no easy way to demo these. See post #30 of this thread.

Yeah, those 350's are really something, perhaps the best kept secret in audio. Huge bang for buck there!

CM: did you use the 350's amp section when you moved it to your *big system* or just use it as a preamp? I was not as impressed with it as a preamp only which was surprising considering what I was hearing and the quality of the dacs and using the receiver's amps. My feeling at the time was the preamp outs may for perhaps design and cost considerations have cut some corners, but I'm not an EE so I couldn't tell for sure and I did only try them on the BAT so maybe it was an input impedance mismatch, who knows.

Oh, I agree, but for those that like/need the room correction, it helps if the top end sounds better than the normal curve. I think you are on to something in the next paragraph which suggests that it is not the curve but the degree/range of the corrections.

My beef was that the correction should have had a % attached to above 1000Hz and below 1000Hz so you could dial in the *amount* of correction applied. That allows you to scale back the result if you think it goes too far. Aha! I would like a window that I could adjust to limit the range where corrections are made and where they are not. In my systems (and, I imagine, those of many others), the setup and acoustics have been optimized where they can be and that begins at the HF and works down. The LF room effects are the most difficult to correct in terms of money and bulk. (Pace Ethan.) Running the Audyssey full-range should not affect the satisfactory part of the spectrum, in theory, but it does.

They said they liked the idea, but then pretended like it didn't exist when I talked to them later, so I finally returned the unit, much to my disappointment. Still haven't heard the NAD's correction, so it could be not as good as flat either, but will soon.No surprises. ;)

I know John, but the other option is to keep dealing with Halcro, get the upgrade which may or may not work the first time, get frustrated with lack of Halcro status, etc.

If HDMI for most vendors is still 6-12 months off, I could just go with a sweet sounding older processor that does 5.1 Bypass really well, and maybe some 2CH bypass to. If I get a used unit, then when I sell it a year later, I am not out too much, and I can buy a HDMI unit when the time is better.

It sounds like I either get a Lex with HDMI, or go for a older or current Non-HDMI that will hold me for a year or so...

Honestly? Now is about the worst time in the world to buy a surround sound preamp. Next year, maybe.

Yeah, those 350's are really something, perhaps the best kept secret in audio. Huge bang for buck there!

CM: did you use the 350's amp section when you moved it to your *big system* or just use it as a preamp? I was not as impressed with it as a preamp only which was surprising considering what I was hearing and the quality of the dacs and using the receiver's amps. My feeling at the time was the preamp outs may for perhaps design and cost considerations have cut some corners, but I'm not an EE so I couldn't tell for sure and I did only try them on the BAT so maybe it was an input impedance mismatch, who knows.

Pre only. The amp section, good as it is, wouldn't quite subtitute for 10kW of Genelec tri-amping:D:D

GoodSonics,
If you get a chance....download the Lexicon MC12HD user guide..it will give you a little more of an idea how flexible the unit really is.
I would recommend that of any unit that you are looking at...helps you make a more educated choice.

Later
RayJr

Cary Audio Design C11. MSRP: $3,000.00

The matching C11-V MSRP: $3,500.00 (??? - Target) is it's matching video processor and will handshake if you will (via special cable) the HDMI 1.3 stuff.

This combo and Audisey MULTI EQ would MSRP at around $10K.

There are some on this forum that have written reviews on the C11 that could chime in with more details.

PM me if you like.

Audyssey pro box..MSRP $2500

Miles,

Thanks fo the reply.

The C11v may be a fine unit someday, but it isn't here and now. This is a firm requirement for me. Halcro showed me how far time can be streched. If I can't go buy the unit (with HDMI Audio) today I'm not thinking about it.

Thanks,
Darrell

Cary Audio Design C11. MSRP: $3,000.00

The matching C11-V MSRP: $3,500.00 (??? - Target) is it's matching video processor and will handshake if you will (via special cable) the HDMI 1.3 stuff.

This combo and Audisey MULTI EQ would MSRP at around $10K.

There are some on this forum that have written reviews on the C11 that could chime in with more details.

PM me if you like.

Ray,

I have already downloaded the manual (all 214 pages). The Lex has the specs I am looking for.

The used Halcro prices have dropped so far thatI need to come up with more cash than I expected. :eek: With that, I need to weigh the options more closely.

With the Halcro HDMI Upgrade in process, you would think used prices would rise or at least hold steady. People must know about the delays and terrific service they can look forward to. :confused:

Darrell

GoodSonics,
If you get a chance....download the Lexicon MC12HD user guide..it will give you a little more of an idea how flexible the unit really is.
I would recommend that of any unit that you are looking at...helps you make a more educated choice.

Later
RayJr

Afterall, owning nice gear is supposed to be fun, isn't it?For most people it is. Else why have this hobby? At the very least it shouldn't be frustrating.

Call me weird but I don't think the fun part is actually owning the gear. In fact, my favourite pieces are the ones I never think about. For example, in the Halcro thread coyoteshawn said "the Lexicon worked right out of the box and so far (Only five days) not so much as a hicup." As he continues to listen to music and watch movies until his Halcro comes back, I really hope the MC-12HD remains the last thing on his mind.

Same with my friend that has the Integra. A month ago he was having fun, as we tweaked settings till he got the sound he wanted. When I recently asked him how he was enjoying the 9.8, he said "fine" and went right back to describing the latest SACD he had listened to. That was it, a one word reply. He takes the unit for granted now, and I'm glad.

Don't get me wrong, as a hobbiest I'm just as susceptible to the initial rush of having a new piece of equipment in my rack. But that fades pretty quickly for me, at least on the better gear that I've owned.

Sanjay

Darrell,

Strange that you say that HDMI needs another 6-12 months and you are in a rush to dump the Halcro. Is this just out of frustration or do you hate the way it sounds? With the big drop in value that you are crying about, why would you get rid of it and get something stop gap? I truly believe that the bottom has already arrived as the price on the Halcro is not going to drop. To me it's actually is a great value (especially if you get it used like I did-I obviously have much less to complain about than you). I wouldn't trade mine for anything out there at almost any price. As you've stated there's not a whole lot going on right now with lossless so why the rush? I'm not asking as a defender of the Halcro, just perplexed.

Late reply to HiFisponge. You are certainly correct that it is a matter of taste, and I'm not going to argue that one with you. No I've definitely not used a HD Lex, but as we've previously discussed, I haven't seen much Lossless around for me to make the jump. And I'm an earlier adopter. I know it's coming, and I'm on the upgrade list for the LPCM board and software as well. At this point I don't care when it arrives...as long as it's within reason. Then I have to get a high end player at that point, which doesn't really exist at this point either. As far as having the correct associated equipment, I believe mine qualify as I have WA GrandSlamm V3 mains powered by FPB Krell mono's, WP7 center channel and Watch surrounds. So there's no defficiency in the signal path by recommendation. I believe the Lex is a juggernaut of a processor in any of it's forms, but to me it's not as musical as the Halcro. If you like multichannel audio for multichannel sake the Lex is grand. I don't doubt for a second if you run multiple sub channels and like logic7 etc. it's clearly a better choice. I'm not that into multichannel music-for now as generally speaking it's all synthesized and to me it sounds like it. When more music is recorded this way and they can get the jitter out of the signal path (HDMI is flawed by this) it may have my ear. This is clearly subjective on my part as is any one's especially when it comes to this high end stuff. James Randi (I've been a great supporter of he until now) is probably right we hear what we want to really.

Cheers,

Edward

twothbeave -

Thanks for the level-headed response. Though, I still don't quite understand what it is about the sound quality that you find more "musical" with the Halcro over the Lex. "Musical" can mean so many things, I'm just trying to get a better idea what sound qualities you hear. I'm not trying to corner you, but what was it about the Lex that initially drew you to it, and what was it that later made you want to change?

Thanks,

- Tim

Sanjay,

You summed up how it should be with equipment perfectly, you "hit the nail on the head".

My experience with the Halcro has been the opposite. It's needed repairs, firmware upgrades to run properly, and I would need to give it up for another few weeks. Each of these things, means I need to reconfiure all the settings again as well. This would all be doable if Halcro answered questions, and gave status updates when things take much longer than expect, but they don't.

I just want my prepro to sound nice and work so I can enjoy the music. The rest of my system works like this. This has been my only troublesome piece.

So, I would like to get into something else. The Lex sounds like it would suit my needs now, if I can swing the extra $$$. It would be worth it, to be able to listen to the music again without cursing. :)

Sanjay, thanks for summing things up so well. Maybe this will help explain to the other Halcro owners why I want to make a change. I want ot think about the music again.

Darrell


For most people it is. Else why have this hobby? At the very least it shouldn't be frustrating.

Call me weird but I don't think the fun part is actually owning the gear. In fact, my favourite pieces are the ones I never think about. For example, in the Halcro thread coyoteshawn said "the Lexicon worked right out of the box and so far (Only five days) not so much as a hicup." As he continues to listen to music and watch movies until his Halcro comes back, I really hope the MC-12HD remains the last thing on his mind.

Same with my friend that has the Integra. A month ago he was having fun, as we tweaked settings till he got the sound he wanted. When I recently asked him how he was enjoying the 9.8, he said "fine" and went right back to describing the latest SACD he had listened to. That was it, a one word reply. He takes the unit for granted now, and I'm glad.

Don't get me wrong, as a hobbiest I'm just as susceptible to the initial rush of having a new piece of equipment in my rack. But that fades pretty quickly for me, at least on the better gear that I've owned.

Sanjay

I tried to audition this twice from a local dealer. He said I could borrow the unit Friday at close and that I had to have it back buy the time they opened the next morning.

NEXT!!!

I appreciate the suggestion. It would be worth trying if I had a different dealer.

Darrell
Hi Darrell;
I work for Audiophile Systems LTD., the Arcam importer/distributor. Right now, following CEDIA, we have some extra demonstrator AV9s available. My suggestion is to contact your local dealer again, inform him of this, and have him order one for you, at no obligation for anyone, for extended audition. You may have him contact me directly, Parker King, 317-841-4100 x220, parkerk@aslgroup.com.
Thanks!

Thanks to everyone that replied. I learned a lot during the last couple weeks, the foremost being this is a tough time to be buying a Prepro. The knowledge and experience of the people here is terrific, and I appreciate your repies and help. :)

While there are a few HDMI Audio models around, the prices are high for what you get because there are only a few contenders that have working units AND high quality sound. After you take away the vendors that provide little to no support/upgrades/etc., the choices are pretty slim.

If I wait 6-12 months, the options will open up, and the prices should come down allowing me to pick up an excellent sounding unit, with HDMI, through a vendor that supports the product.

I still have the Halcro, but it will have to be sent in for the HDMI Upgrade. It could take 2-4 weeks, and if I am unlucky, it could take two tries as some have experienced.

So, I have hedged my bets with what is reported to be a great sounding, relatively inexpensive processor. I bought an AVP2+6 today.

I can use the AVP2+6 while the Halcro is sent in, and if for some reason, I get fed up with Halcro, I can sell it and use the AVP2+6 until the processor market is in a better state.

On the other hand, if the Halcro customer service improves, and the HDMI upgrade goes soon and smoothly, then I can sell the AVP2+6 at little to no loss. I think it is a no-lose solution.

Thanks,
Darrell

Audyssey pro box..MSRP $2500

NAD DD/DTS 7.1 HDMI 1.3a preamp with an improved Audyssey curves. Priceless! No, wait, $2000.

John,

Is that available now?

Darrell


NAD DD/DTS 7.1 HDMI 1.3a preamp with an improved Audyssey curves. Priceless! No, wait, $2000.

Oh, no, sorry, not quite. I was just throwing that one out for the fun of the post. It's about 2 months out. A receiver version just started shipping though.