Curious why:

---Fox calls their HD channel 'widescreen' and not HD, and why:

---My (Comcast) program guide doesn't list their HD programs as being in HD, and why:

---They don't use 'HD' in their program bug.

I believe some of their programming is indeed 'faux-HD' (Cops?), but much of their HD is among the best picture quality I've seen. Anybody know what gives?

---Fox calls their HD channel 'widescreen' and not HD, and why:

In high definition tiny letters the full slogan is Fox Widescreen High Definition Digital TV.

---My (Comcast) program guide doesn't list their HD programs as being in HD, and why:

Mine does.

---They don't use 'HD' in their program bug.

Fox uses a system called a splicer that allows each station to insert their own program bug. It's up to your local station to decide how it looks.

Curious why:

---Fox calls their HD channel 'widescreen' and not HD, and why:

---My (Comcast) program guide doesn't list their HD programs as being in HD, and why:

---They don't use 'HD' in their program bug.

I believe some of their programming is indeed 'faux-HD' (Cops?), but much of their HD is among the best picture quality I've seen. Anybody know what gives?
Fox has been using SD widescreen for some of it programming. They do Cops, any 7th or 8th NFL game, and a few prime time programming in SD widescreen.

Why your program guide does not display a HD program as being an HD, that is a problem with the guide data. These are quite common and usually on screen and online guide are usually not all that reliable.

For most its prime time programming Fox has its bug inserted at the local station via the splicer. Each station gets to display their own logo.

How can one key a logo in without decoding/reencoding?

How can one key a logo in without decoding/reencoding?

The splicer only decodes and reencodes only the area of the picture that the bug takes up. The bugs are litereally "spliced in" hence the name, SPLICER. The station bugs reside on the individual splicers at the stations.

How can one key a logo in without decoding/reencoding?

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2001033861

I don't know why but their live sports are among the worst I have seen!:mad:

The splicer only decodes and reencodes only the area of the picture that the bug takes up. The bugs are litereally "spliced in" hence the name, SPLICER. The station bugs reside on the individual splicers at the stations.I thought that referred to splicing MPEG streams together, such as local and network. The Leitch DTP seems to be a similar device to the BP5100. The local splicer bug is sometimes replaced with a Fox national bug which is actually part of the network video on some live shows.

I love watching 24 and Prison Break on FOX and I think their HD is good. Not Great, but still 1000x better then SD!

I think NBC has a better picture and sound compared to FOX (standard networks).

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2001033861I wonder if the Fox splicers work that way. I can see the need to restrict the motion vectors in the non-logo area from using macroblocks that are in the logo area as they are modified with the logo. OTH I guess the splicer could also re-encode the affected macroblocks in the non-logo area as well as the ones within the logo area. Fox uses Tandberg encoders and the approach in the link is from S&W. Do the Tandberg encoders support the described special encoding in the logo area?

The Leitch DTP seems to be a similar device to the BP5100.

That is because the splicer is a BP5100 with added software for FOX.

I wonder if the Fox splicers work that way.

Yep. That how it works. Local bugs are spliced in at the local level or can be spliced out for no bug and network can send their white FOX bug via the feed. Network controls the local bug during network programming. The rest of the time, the station has control over it.

Fox stinks. That's all you really need to know. I wish someone would take their license to broadcast HD away until they prove they've learned how to do it.

I should have been clearer and said the Leitch DTP seems to be a similar device to the Fox customized Terayon BP 5100 splicer. Also when I wondered if the Fox splicer system worked that way, I should have clarified whether the encoders at Fox intra-frame encodes and restricts motion vectors in the logo area. But as was mentioned, the logo is also added over local material so I would guess the splicer handles the issue of motion vector interaction with macroblocks in the logo area rather than depending on the MPEG encoder itself as described in the link.

I wish someone would take their license to broadcast HD away until they prove they've learned how to do it.

No one issues licenses for "HD." Get real.

Fox stinks. That's all you really need to know. I wish someone would take their license to broadcast HD away until they prove they've learned how to do it.I guess everyone is entitled to their opionion, but there have been many posts to the contrary on much of Fox's programming, especially non-sports related. House always looks great and live shows like the Emmys and American Idol got good feedback on PQ. Sports has really improved with the increase in the network fronthaul data rate, but it still seems a bit softer than it should be.

But as was mentioned, the logo is also added over local material so I would guess the splicer handles the issue of motion vector interaction with macroblocks in the logo area rather than depending on the MPEG encoder itself as described in the link.

It is all done in the splicer. It takes the network feed like it takes the local feed. The splicer is just a sophisticated MUX with many other features.

No one issues licenses for "HD." Get real.


I think your sarcasm detector needs new batteries. FOX Sports in HD is just abysmal.

I guess this is sort of a different question/issue, but why does Fox insert a national bug during American Idol but let the affiliates pump local bugs for everything else (as far as I can tell)? Is it just an issue of viewing audience size?

maxman: Historically, Fox was resistant to HD -- they wanted to do more multicasting instead. At first, they adopted 480p (or was it 480i?) widescreen instead of HD; that's where "Fox Widesceen" came from. Now they've switched to 720p, but they still have some widescreen SD programs, as you've noticed. (I like it, if the alternative is pillarboxed SD, as on the other networks.)

The HD/SD programs seem to be flagged correctly in my Tivo guide. I can't speak to Comcast's.

I think your sarcasm detector needs new batteries. FOX Sports in HD is just abysmal.

Neither of your a posts are relevant to this discussion. Rather than being a threadjumper, perhaps you should read a bit more an learn. And for whatever
reason you have to grind an axe with FOX, at least keep it within relevant threads with the other axe grinders. FOX's HD technology and how they're doing it is quite advanced, and leads to often better and more consistent video and audio quality from an overall standpoint.

I guess this is sort of a different question/issue, but why does Fox insert a national bug during American Idol but let the affiliates pump local bugs for everything else (as far as I can tell)? Is it just an issue of viewing audience size?

There are two logos stored in the splicer. The local "branding" bug, and the
"legal ID" bug. They control the insertion of the local branding bug. Why they don't insert the local bug In high-profile programs such as idol and sports where they are inserting a bug at the network level..I don't know If us or any other affiliate has even asked why they do that. I'm sure someone somewhere there has a reason.

I don't know why but their live sports are among the worst I have seen!:mad:

It's a travesty that they own the rights to some of the most important sports broadcasts in the US;

World Series
NFL Games
College BCS and National Championship

I would put money on them getting the Olympics in the next go-round.

I would put money on them getting the Olympics in the next go-round.

I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.

Nor would I. NBC hasn't yet discovered that many viewers don't care about it much anymore. As a result, they'll continue to lock it up for quite a few years to come.

Nor would I. NBC hasn't yet discovered that many viewers don't care about it much anymore. As a result, they'll continue to lock it up for quite a few years to come.

Women care about it a lot. That is why you see lots of skating in the winter games and gymnastics in the summer games.

NBC knows what it has and will keep it.

Fox should get it for a while, and then back to ABC to make the full circle ... ooops ESPN now

Fox should get it for a while, and then back to ABC to make the full circle ... ooops ESPN now
You mean ESPN on ABC presented in ESPN HD on ABC HD by Texas Instruments DLP?

No, no, it would be ESPN on ABC presented in ESPN2 HD on ABC HD Powered by Texas Instruments DLP It's Amazing It's the Mirrors.

Big difference there.

maxman: Historically, Fox was resistant to HD --

That is incorrect. FOX had been working on the splicer since 1997. For whatever reason, FOX decided that the splicer was the way to go instead of doing it at the station level. The problem was the splicer is a computer and in 1997, you didn't have the processor speeds to efficiently do what the splicer does in the size package the splicer is or at a cost point that was considered reasonable The splicer is a 1 7/8 inch high by 28 inch deep by 18 inch wide computer with the necessary hard drives, motherboard and ASI data cards to take in the stations HD data stream and the satellite HD data stream, manipulate it and then provide a new HD signal to go to the stations transmitter. Even with this size, it still takes support equipment that is right at a foot high in a rack mount configuration. The original OTA 720p tests of 1997 were performed by an early splicer prototype.

That is the skinny on that.

No, no, it would be ESPN on ABC presented in ESPN2 HD on ABC HD Powered by Texas Instruments DLP It's Amazing It's the Mirrors.

Big difference there.
Oh jeez, how foolish of me. :p

. The original OTA 720p tests of 1997 were performed by an early splicer prototype.That is the skinny on that.

Sounds pretty spot-on phat to me Charles! :)

FOX also did some 720p testing with the 2004 AllStars game direct to only 2 or 3 stations,of which we participated. DD5.1 testing via Dolby E was done pre-splicer to approximately 6 stations during the
480p Widescreen era. We were also involved in that, and learned a LOT.