I have yet to see any projector technology match the all virtues of a 3chip DLP's brightness, contrast, sharpness, image clarity, punch and 3D looking out a window type depth of image. It's got it all, but comes at a very steep price.

This got me thinking about why a single company hasn't come out with a reasonably low priced 3 chip DLP.

Might be a silly question but why can we buy single chip DLPs for less than 1k each but not a 3 chip for 3k ?

I have yet to see any projector technology match the all virtues of a 3chip DLP's brightness, contrast, sharpness, image clarity, punch and 3D looking out a window type depth of image.

Have you seen the JVC DLA-RS1U DILA/LCOS projector? Most three chip DLPs may be brighter, but are they really better in the other areas you mentioned?

IB

What projectors have you seen?

I happen to agree with him. I have not seen anything as good as a the *best* 3-chip DLP projectors, though not necessarily with regard to each spec he listed (3-chip DLP does not have the best contrast for instance).

As far as the pricing question, this is about the 100th thread asking the identical question, I suggest a search.

the chips are expensive?

The only 3chip DLP I've seen that betters the RS1 is the Barco DP100. Consider the RS1 gives a $200000 projector the size of a fridge a run for its money...

The optical system in a 3 chip DLP is quite advanced, making it expensive... Because of this, it doesn't really make sense to make everything else medium quality, it will still be a quite expensive projector. Because of this, medium or low quality 3-chip DLP doesn't really make sense, all available 3-chip DLP's are of very high quality.

I don't agree that the RS1 only has competition by the very most expensive 3-chip DLP's, but I guess that has been discussed before... ;-) I happen to prefer a Sim2 D80 over the JVC, as did most of 30 people that I just demo'ed those two projectors for, in a setup that actually favored the JVC (fairly large screen size). Some did prefer the JVC though - it's a matter of taste really.

I happen to prefer a Sim2 D80 over the JVC, as did most of 30 people that I just demo'ed those two projectors for, in a setup that actually favored the JVC (fairly large screen size). Some did prefer the JVC though - it's a matter of taste really.
The room that favours the JVC is a medium size screen and no reflection room around it (aka bat cave).

The JVC RS1 has by far the better on/off contrast ratio than any 3 chip DLP. On the other hand, the 3 chip DLP has much better ANSI contrast but most movies of real life subjects do not have this amount of ANSI contrast content. Digital source material is a different issue. "The Incredibles" looks great on DLP.

The only 3chip DLP I've seen that betters the RS1 is the Barco DP100. Consider the RS1 gives a $200000 projector the size of a fridge a run for its money...

I will let all the other 3 chip DLP manufactures know they should close shop, they are waisting their time based on your observations:)

I will let all the other 3 chip DLP manufactures know they should close shop, they are waisting their time based on your observations:)

Hey Kleetus, you done gone shut the trailer park. What you 'spect them good ole boys to do now:D:D

I will let all the other 3 chip DLP manufactures know they should close shop, they are waisting their time based on your observations:)

That's okay I spoke to most of them a couple of weeks ago.:D

Some of you are a real sensitive bunch.:p

It wasn't a knock against the RS1. Yes, it's a good projector. I've owned one for about 4 mths and just sold it earlier this week in anticipation of my new CIH scope setup. I've owned 4 projectors over the last 18 months. But comparisons to other projectors is not really the point here.

I've always been most impressed by the bright, 3D depth and image quality from a 3 chipper, but the major leap in price had always held me back.

I can't imagine that the limiting factor here are the optics or lens. Why would it be any more costly than what's in the JVC, Sony VW50/60 or 1080LCDs.

It's obviously not the cost of the chips either. If you can bring a 720 DLP to market sub $1k, then it stands to reason that you should able to bring a 3 chipper to market for less than say 2.5k.

I'm surprised that companies like Infocus, Sharp or Marantz haven't explored this avenue yet to differentiate themselves.

Take for instance the HD80 1080p dlp at 2.5k. Shouldn't we be able to see a 3 chipper 1080p at around 4.5k ?
I suspect they would do very well with such a product even if it came to market at the $4.5k range to compete in the RS1/VW60's segment.

I'll admit, I don't know the first thing about designing projectors, but I do know I enjoy watching them:)

I can't imagine that the limiting factor here are the optics or lens. Why would it be any more costly than what's in the JVC, Sony VW50/60 or 1080LCDs.

In a 3-chip DLP, you need a multi-angle prism, and that's costly if you want it to have the quality that makes sense in a high-quality projector. LCD's and LCOS use polarized light, so the light path is much simpler, without the need of a multi-angle prism. I'm not familiar enough with the technical aspects of this to explain it much further than that, but in short that's the main difference. If you were to design a lower quality 3-chip DLP with cheap prisms, you'd get poor color quality, thus eliminating the whole concept of using DLP in the first place. I'm quite sure prices will come down from where they are now, but they'll never come as close to single-chippers as one might expect.

I personally believe that single-chip DLP with new types of light engines (laser, LED etc) will eliminate the need for 3-chip designs, sooner than 3-chip DLP becoming cheap.

Coming from the product design side of things I have no doubt in the increased complexity and cost of manufacture. However, you have to realize that a big part of 3 chip DLP cost is flat out due to the market served. It's a marketing tiering thing. This happens in all industries. Cost of manufacture from the low end to high end has no linear relationship to cost of sale from the low end to high end. You want the best... be prepared to pay.

I have not found a detailed technical description of the laser system.

In my experience, lasers are single frequency (wavelength) with the lasing material determining the color (frequency). With red, blue, and green laser outputs, you would need 3 DLP's and then optics to combine them to generate all colors.

Does anyone know where there is more technical info?

Thanks.

About 2 years ago i got to see Marantz's big 3 chip dlp they used to sell. I was very impressed by how deep and dark the shadow detail was. if only it wasnt 30k and the size of a small army of umpa lumpas :). I could only imagine the picture of a 1080p 3 chip dlp would be like. :)

All I know is that blue lasers are expensive. $1k for a 20mw laser pointer that only lasts around 5000hours.

A 3 chip DLP bears no relation to a single chipper or even 3 single chippers, cost wise. Its down to optical complexity

Otto nailed it twice.

Well then when they make it simple with one chip why are those still more expensive than a JVC RS1??:D :D

Well then when they make it simple with one chip why are those still more expensive than a JVC RS1??:D :D

I don't agree that single-chip DLP is a simpler design than LCOS...

Is a 3 chip dlp color like the C3Xe, C3X 1080p or the Infocus 777 a big differnce to warrent a 3 chip over the color on a one chip dlp like the SIM2 380 or 3000e. Thanks Greg

There are multi wavelength lasers by the way. About 10 years ago I saw an "experimental" 3 color laser in a research lab while in engineering school. One of the potential applications considered at the time for it was in "display" technologies. It was a white color but when put through a prizm was broken out into it's 3 colors. The colors were not exactly RGB though. Regardless, it required a full 3 phase Y power circuit and could have no longer than a 3 foot power cord:eek:

i'm starting to miss the C3XE i had the pleasure to test for 2weeks
bright (around 1500-1700ansi lumens, which is 2 to 3times more than the HD1)
sharp
no light leaks
ok it could have had better on off during black scenes.
great natural colorimetry after adjustments
i'm wondering what to do (C3XE250 or HT380)

How much better was the 3 chip verses current 1 chip. Is it worth to upgrade solely on the basis of better color.

How much better was the 3 chip verses current 1 chip. Is it worth to upgrade solely on the basis of better color.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, since "better color" really isn't the main reason for upgrading from 1 chip to 3 chip. The main differences will be in light output, less dithering, better graduation of colors, and generally more 3d-like, natural images (depending on setup of course). Is it worth upgrading? Well... it really depends on what else you would be spending that money on... ;-) If you have a good singlechipper like, say, the HT380, you could ask yourself another kind of question: What other choices do you really have? If you want to gain a significant improvement over high-quality single-chip DLP, in MY opinion you really only have one option, 3-chip DLP.

Is it worth it? Well... No high-end product is really "worth it", is it? It's all a matter of how much you're willing to spend, to have some fun in your home theater. If you feel better pictures will get you more fun, the rest of your setup is good enough to not make any bottlenecks, and you can afford the upgrade - go for it! Don't try to make too much sense out of your home theater budget, it's not supposed to make sense anyway... ;-)

The only 3chip DLP I've seen that betters the RS1 is the Barco DP100. ..

You need to get out more.

Art

However, you have to realize that a big part of 3 chip DLP cost is flat out due to the market served. It's a marketing tiering thing.

Thats the correct answer.
All the other stuff about "complex" optical paths ,etc, etc is b.s.

If you can sell an infocus 3-chip 777 for $7K, then you surely can make a 1080 model of this for no more than $2-3K more... if you wanted to.
Problem is, no one wants to right now. But as soon as 1 company does, look out.

I will bet anyone $1 that we will see a 3-chip 1080 dlp for $10K street by end of '08.

I'll take that bet

I will bet anyone $1 that we will see a 3-chip 1080 dlp for $10K street by end of '08.

I'm guessing that you will be close on price and timing . It could go a little longer or a couple of thousand higher but, msrp of 15K is reaistic and therefore street close to your number.

Art

Tryg,
I have your bet placed. Actually taking a dollar from you would be much more valuable to me and I may frame it and hang it on a wall.
I should also point out that my offer is limited to first ten takers.

Seriously, though, what makes me optomistic about that price point is what a friend of mine was quoted for the new SIM 1080 3 chip. Quite a discount from MSRP!

Thats the correct answer.
All the other stuff about "complex" optical paths ,etc, etc is b.s.


What do you guess to be the build cost of an HT5000 optical path?

Indulge me.

I'm guessing that you will be close on price and timing . It could go a little longer or a couple of thousand higher but, msrp of 15K is reaistic and therefore street close to your number.

Art

Trickled down economy can only get you so far.
Cheaper lens, cheaper electronics, cheaper construction, etc.

You (actually we) will never see a HT5000 with 100lb mass be going for $10k+. I bet 10 times his bet on that.:)

Trickled down economy can only get you so far.
Cheaper lens, cheaper electronics, cheaper construction, etc.

You (actually we) will never see a HT5000 with 100lb mass be going for $10k+. I bet 10 times his bit on that.:)


What did he bite ?

Art

I still say it can be done at $5k with equal optics and processing relative to that market segment.

What do you guess to be the build cost of an HT5000 optical path?


I don't have the faintest idea.
Why dont you go ask Luigi and then let us know.

Also, that really doesnt even apply to what I said.

You need to get out more.

Art

heh too funny Art, you must be in sheer bliss with your setup:)

What did he bite ?

Art

Sorry corrected the spelling.:)

heh too funny Art, you must be in sheer bliss with your setup:)

Actually ,not bragging but yes I am. It has actually exceeded my expectations with the CIH set up.

Art

Sorry corrected the spelling.:)

Sorry right back at you, it just seemed like the right question.:D

Art

If you can sell an infocus 3-chip 777 for $7K, then you surely can make a 1080 model of this for no more than $2-3K more... if you wanted to.
Problem is, no one wants to right now. But as soon as 1 company does, look out..

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I believe that price is artificially low, probably due to failing sales. The price drop that you've seen in the US on this model hasn't been introduced in Europe, so I believe it's a matter of getting rid of a limited quantity of stock. A much fairer comparison is the Sim2 C3X 720P models. These have been the cheapest 3-chip DLP's outthere for quite some time, and as I understand it have been extremely popular, and still are (at least compared to other high-end 720P models). If only due to the sheer amount of moved units, the competition should be very envious of Sim2 for this, but until this recent (artificial) price drop by Infocus, even the largest competitors haven't been able to match Sim2's price point - partly because Sim2 has been the only company that's managed to squeeze 3-chip DLP into a small form factor, making it cheaper to manufacture. Sim2 has been the most competitive 3-chip DLP for two years running, without changing the price (much) - that's extremely impressive in this market. If any of the competitors was able to match the C3X for price, I strongly believe they would have, if only to steal part of the sales that Sim2 has reached with this PJ. Now, I don't know what the MSRP for a C3X Light is here in the US (15k?), but my estimate is that we're not likely to see a 3-chip 1080P much lower than that, for the next couple of years. I do believe that we'll at some point se a cheaper C3X 1080P model than the one available now, however.


I will bet anyone $1 that we will see a 3-chip 1080 dlp for $10K street by end of '08.

I'll give you odds 10:1 on that dollar.

I would like to say, though, that this is one bet that I'd be extremely happy to lose... ;-) I just don't believe I will.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. I believe that price is artificially low, probably due to failing sales. The price drop that you've seen in the US on this model hasn't been introduced in Europe, so I believe it's a matter of getting rid of a limited quantity of stock. A much fairer comparison is the Sim2 C3X 720P models. These have been the cheapest 3-chip DLP's outthere for quite some time, and as I understand it have been extremely popular, and still are (at least compared to other high-end 720P models). If only due to the sheer amount of moved units, the competition should be very envious of Sim2 for this, but until this recent (artificial) price drop by Infocus, even the largest competitors haven't been able to match Sim2's price point - partly because Sim2 has been the only company that's managed to squeeze 3-chip DLP into a small form factor, making it cheaper to manufacture. Sim2 has been the most competitive 3-chip DLP for two years running, without changing the price (much) - that's extremely impressive in this market. If any of the competitors was able to match the C3X for price, I strongly believe they would have, if only to steal part of the sales that Sim2 has reached with this PJ. Now, I don't know what the MSRP for a C3X Light is here in the US (15k?), but my estimate is that we're not likely to see a 3-chip 1080P much lower than that, for the next couple of years. I do believe that we'll at some point se a cheaper C3X 1080P model than the one available now, however.




I'll give you odds 10:1 on that dollar.

I would like to say, though, that this is one bet that I'd be extremely happy to lose... ;-) I just don't believe I will.

i doubt these projectors have more than 2K of parts in them. i dont doubt they have more than 500K in research, design and marketing however!

If you can sell an infocus 3-chip 777 for $7K, then you surely can make a 1080 model of this for no more than $2-3K more... if you wanted to. Problem is, no one wants to right now. But as soon as 1 company does, look out.
You don't suppose the reason you can buy an Infocus 777 for 7K is that they are in dire financial straights (a fact of public record) and have a boat load of them that they want to move, do you? I'm not saying that negates your advanced economic argument that "someone could do it if they wanted to". The music companies could sell songs for 10 cents "if they wanted to".

i doubt these projectors have more than 2K of parts in them. i dont doubt they have more than 500K in research, design and marketing however!

Well... A 2k projector certainly doesn't have 2k of parts in them either, so that argument is moot.

EDIT: I may be naive, but I actually do believe that a 20k MSRP projector is 7-8 times more expensive to build, than a 2k MSRP projector (the rest of the difference being due to differences in markup, which _should_ be there due to the different levels of service needed when selling a higher-price projector). A 2k projector doesn't cost that many pennies to manufacture far east.

I'm aware, however, that some consumers think that if a 2k product costs 200$ to manufacture, a product that costs 500$ to manufacture should cost 2k+300$. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. Businesses calculate by percentages, not by absolutes.

A much fairer comparison is the Sim2 C3X 720P models.

Good point Otto,
however, the Sim2 C3X 720p model has been discounted quite a bit also by some dealers.
This tells me that the dealer cost is much lower than MSRP.
So if the cost to produce is lower, then all we need is a mfg whose distributers have a lower margin. ie Optoma???

It costs a LOT to design any product (projector) of this complexity. And likewise it costs a relative high amount to manufacture something with such low volumes and still make any money to make it worth a companies time. From a material/parts standpoint I do believe that the 3chipper isn't a whole lot more expensive to build than a readily available nice 1 chip. It's just that some expensive minds brought it together and then low (relative) production rates are very expensive to execute. A good analogy might be a luxury mass produced car such as Lexus,Caddy,BMW, etc.. compared to a low production exotic such as a lambo, Maserati, Aston etc.. Sure there may be a few nicer parts on the exotic but nothing to justify orders of magnitude more to the final price tag. Same goes for the projectors.

"If only due to the sheer amount of moved units, the competition should be very envious of Sim2 for this"

What amount is that? I wouldn't think the market at that price is very big.

This tells me that the dealer cost is much lower than MSRP.

Obviously, yes. Like I said, however: Dealer margins _should_ be higher on a higher end product, you'll expect a lot more service from your dealer (or, at least you should).

So if the cost to produce is lower, then all we need is a mfg whose distributers have a lower margin. ie Optoma???

Well... I'm one person who really don't think Optoma has ever produced a high-quality product (although I'll probably gain a few enemies with that statement). I'm aware that there are plenty of happy HD80 and HD81 owners outthere, but I'm not the least bit impressed. I don't believe a 3-chip DLP with the same "quality" as an HD80 would have a chance in hell against high-quality single-chippers, or the RS1's of the world. If you're not going to make accurate pictures anyway, what would be the point of going 3-chip DLP? Like I said: Low quality 3-chip DLP simply doesn't make sense. Even if they DID make a 6k 3-chip DLP, with the quality of an HD80, you wouldn't want one, so what would be the point? I don't think even Optoma would see any sense in putting 3-chip DLP on the market just for the sake of it, if the resulting quality is worse than what's available from other technologies. If Optoma was able to create a competitive 3-chip projector, I believe they'd already have done it in the 720P era. Basically, if you're not able to produce a _competitive_ 3-chip product, you're not going to put it to market.

The funny thing about high markup on high-end products, is that if you take the same product into you local K-mart at half the price, you'll probably sell a lot less pieces. That's the whole point of a distribution system - what's the value of a bargain, if you´re not aware that the product is even on the market?

Edit: To put it another way: The reason Optoma don't have high-end margins, is that it's not high-end products! If they want to start selling high-end products, they'll probably need to find a dealer base that's up to the task, increasing the margin in the process.

"If only due to the sheer amount of moved units, the competition should be very envious of Sim2 for this"

What amount is that? I wouldn't think the market at that price is very big.

Relative to other projectors at the same price range, of course.

Like I said: Low quality 3-chip DLP simply doesn't make sense. Even if they DID make a 6k 3-chip DLP, with the quality of an HD80, you wouldn't want one, so what would be the point?

I disagree with this sentiment completely.
IMHO, it goes against the historical trend on electronics and technology in general.

2 years ago you could have also said, dual core processors for use in home computers makes absolutely no sense. Any company that followed this path would be wasting their time. No one would buy it if it came to market.
This type of processor belongs in high end dual core corporate servers. Fastforward to today, $500 home pc's now have dual cores and more computing horsepower than corporate servers had 2 years ago at a fraction of the price.

Back to projectors...Historically single chip 720p DLPs have always been significantly more expensive than their 720p LCD counter parts. That was just a very short time ago. LCD projectors were considered entry level because DLPs were said to be costly to build. Today there are several hot selling 720p DLPs under $1k, and cheaper than their competing LCDs. If they followed your thoughts they would have never brought them to market. But they did and they're selling incredibly well. Some examples are the Optoma HD70, Mits HC1000/HC1500.

Naturally, I don't expect a $5k 3chipper to have the same level and quality of optics as a $25k 3 chipper, but then neither does the 1 chip DLP, LCOS or LCD it's competing with in that segment.

Maybe I'm completely wrong in my thinking.

Maybe I'm completely wrong in my thinking.

I dont think you are.

But you have to also realize that there are a lot of people in the AV business who do NOT want a low cost 3 chip DLP.

Beside the overhead cost of some these three chippers I think it is also a marketing strategy to keep the prices hi because they want to target a segment of the market that avoid buying non-exclusive items.

There will be cheaper units eventually depending on the competition and slow demand for 1-chip.

how true taht is caspianM.

Thats the correct answer.
All the other stuff about "complex" optical paths ,etc, etc is b.s.

If you can sell an infocus 3-chip 777 for $7K, then you surely can make a 1080 model of this for no more than $2-3K more... if you wanted to.
Problem is, no one wants to right now. But as soon as 1 company does, look out.

I will bet anyone $1 that we will see a 3-chip 1080 dlp for $10K street by end of '08.

I'll take that bet as well.

I'm hopeful, but at the same time I'm a bit skeptical that it will happen. How many manufacturers of micro mirror chips are there? How many projector manufacturers? Certainly there are a lot more lcd and lcos based guys, and of course many more price points and market segments there.
I don't have numbers, but how many 15K-20K projectors are sold each year? Is there that huge of an incentive in that segment to lower the MRP point?

I do hope that my public betting will greatly boost the odds of the low cost 3 chipper coming to pass. I swear that every other time I drop money on technology "they" release the next significant jump for the half the cost. As an example I _just_ built a fancy pc and of course nvidia releases their 8800gt video card. It has better performance and is literally half the cost of the card I just bought. :P.

Someone drew an analogy to multi core cpus, and I understand the point, but multi core cpus are really the only possible option now. Just moving to faster clock rates was no longer viable. Given an x86 ISA the only option left (for the cost/perf ratio) is multi core. But yes, it is amazing how much compute power one gets in the average home pc now.

I suppose that next year we'll get to repeat this bet and it will be for the 4K chips. Or at least I hope so (ok two years ... :)

I'll take that bet as well.

I'm hopeful, but at the same time I'm a bit skeptical that it will happen. How many manufacturers of micro mirror chips are there? How many projector manufacturers? Certainly there are a lot more lcd and lcos based guys, and of course many more price points and market segments there.
I don't have numbers, but how many 15K-20K projectors are sold each year? Is there that huge of an incentive in that segment to lower the MRP point?

I do hope that my public betting will greatly boost the odds of the low cost 3 chipper coming to pass. I swear that every other time I drop money on technology "they" release the next significant jump for the half the cost. As an example I _just_ built a fancy pc and of course nvidia releases their 8800gt video card. It has better performance and is literally half the cost of the card I just bought. :P.

Someone drew an analogy to multi core cpus, and I understand the point, but multi core cpus are really the only possible option now. Just moving to faster clock rates was no longer viable. Given an x86 ISA the only option left (for the cost/perf ratio) is multi core. But yes, it is amazing how much compute power one gets in the average home pc now.

I suppose that next year we'll get to repeat this bet and it will be for the 4K chips. Or at least I hope so (ok two years ... :)

I think ,just as JVC stated ,they want to sell a lot of cheaper projectors that's how thay can make money ,the cost of three chips is going to drop. Before I bought my stack four years ago I looked at a DPI three chip costing $90,000. We are looking at street prices now for certain units closing in at $20,000 which blow away the performance of that $90,000 unit I looked at.

I still think based on a little more time, market pressures etc we will be close to a street price of $10,000 in another year or so.

Art

I would be a happy camper if an equivalent C3X 1080 projector would list for 20K a year from now. Any thoughts?

depending on your local sim dealer, that unit can be had for a little over your wish now.

depending on your local sim dealer, that unit can be had for a little over your wish now.

My point.

Art

Isn't Planar slated to release a "budget" 3-chip 720P machine early next year?

Dino

Back to projectors...Historically single chip 720p DLPs have always been significantly more expensive than their 720p LCD counter parts. That was just a very short time ago. LCD projectors were considered entry level because DLPs were said to be costly to build. Today there are several hot selling 720p DLPs under $1k, and cheaper than their competing LCDs. If they followed your thoughts they would have never brought them to market. But they did and they're selling incredibly well. Some examples are the Optoma HD70, Mits HC1000/HC1500.

And then again, I've never said the same thing about single-chip DLP... ;-) If anyone said two years ago that dual-core CPU's would never make sense for home computers, it certainly wasn't me either - I believe I actually owned one for home use more than two years ago, and started dreaming about dual-CPU setups someting like 10 years ago... (but that's not the point). There's a major difference with these two progressions: The price drop of single-chip DLP is due to advances in the basic technology, just like your example with two-core technology. Technology will always keep getting better and cheaper by the day. If you were to say that we will see a 1080P LCOS based product at 2k max two years from now, I'd believe you in a heartbeat. 3-chip DLP is different, because the stuff that makes up most of the difference in price isn't the chips, but the optics. Optics have never really dropped much in price, and probably never will. It would be much fairer to compare with the camera market: You can now get a 10 megapixel camera for a few hundred quid. But how much has the price of a quality lens dropped the last couple of years?

What I'm trying to say is, that if manufacturing a low-quality 3-chip DLP will affect the color performance in such a way that it would be worse than a 2k LCOS based product, it simply wouldn't be competitive. The nature of 3-chip DLP is such that it only makes sense if you do it properly. It's kind of like the engine of a car: A V8 engine is cool But noone would even think of making a 2 litre V8 for a car. If you want a 2 litre engine, a V8 just isn't as effective as a four cylinder engine in practice. V8's are only available in bigger engines. 3-chip DLP is the V12 of projectors - do it right, and it kicks butt. Do it wrong, and it's just an odd chunky piece of junk that gets creamed by the four-cylinder turbos.

I'm willing to believe that some odd company will _try_, however. Maybe because of hype of 3-chip DLP they'll actually sell some of them too. But for the ones of us that really care about picture quality, why would we want 3-chip DLP to come down in price, if it doesn't mean that the performance that we relate to 3-chip DLP follows?

I don't give a rats behind what technology is in a projector, or even if my display even IS a projector. I just want the best possible picture for my money. And in the lower end of the market, I just don't think 3-chip DLP will ever be the way to go. Like I said, however, I believe at some point we will be able to obtain the performance associated with current 3-chip DLP at much lower prices - but it's going to be a different technology, not 3-chip DLP. Single chip DLP with laser or LED is a better bet in my opinion, but maybe not within two years.

depending on your local sim dealer, that unit can be had for a little over your wish now.


Thats an unbelievable bargain, WOW. Could you PM me the details for the dealer, I'm really interested.
Im amazed, as you mentioned that quote ages ago but the unit price was only announced today.

Thanks in advance.

That price sounds strange as SIM2 has just made a MSRP of 32k$ public.

That price sounds strange as SIM2 has just made a MSRP of 32k$ public.

It does. It was actually "quoted" before CEDIA in another thread. I think someone is mistaken or being misled and I said so at the time.

I contacted a number of reputable dealers who stated that a quote could not be given as the price was still not annouvnced.

I'd really love the dealers details.

And in the lower end of the market, I just don't think 3-chip DLP will ever be the way to go. Like I said, however, I believe at some point we will be able to obtain the performance associated with current 3-chip DLP at much lower prices - but it's going to be a different technology, not 3-chip DLP. Single chip DLP with laser or LED is a better bet in my opinion, but maybe not within two years.

Thanks for the explanation Otto.
In all honesty I don't know enough about 3DLP design technology to debate you here, so you may very well be correct.

That price sounds strange as SIM2 has just made a MSRP of 32k$ public.

Goodbye Sim2. I'm out!

Goodbye Sim2. I'm out!

Had you intended buying one?

Yes ,good question when you consider that it is probably one of the best video projection devices available for the home.

Art

Had you intended buying one?

yes, yes, yes!

Have you checked the street price yet.? What were you banking on?

Despite claims to the cotrary, reliable street prices have not been possible

There is a thread on this in the big boys forum, best to continue there, for obvious reasons.

Remember, the price was given as "around" $30k, its within 7% of that.

You want the best... be prepared to pay.

Manufacturers know no boundaries. My "I want" button says Nikon D3. See, it works beyond projectors. PS: My "reality" button says 'in your dreams'.:eek:

remember that pj technology changes yearly and the prices are affected very badly, not sure if it's as bad as cars....

We have a DPI Titan 500 1080p 3 chip on order. Slow in coming however. Fortunately we are still waiting on the construction team to complete the room.
I did look at the Titan 250 at CEDIA. Fantastic on a 12 foot wide image.
We did notice some dithering and misconvergence on the CEDIA sample. Up close anyway.
Not a perfect world for even the pinnacle of performance in our industry.

It will be more than 10K. No one we know of has leaked any info. about these projectors coming to market at these prices in the next 12 months.

The light pathways in a 3 chipper is 'much' more complicated than a LCD or LCOS system. Nothing compares to a 'high end' multi chip DLP unit.

Flame away.:p

We have a DPI Titan 500 1080p 3 chip on order. Slow in coming however. Fortunately we are still waiting on the construction team to complete the room.
I did look at the Titan 250 at CEDIA. Fantastic on a 12 foot wide image.
We did notice some dithering and misconvergence on the CEDIA sample. Up close anyway.
Not a perfect world for even the pinnacle of performance in our industry.

I love the guys from DPI but the reasons you bring up are some of those which made the HT 5000 look so much more attractive than the Titans.

Art

The Titans have, sadly, not lived up to the promise they were thought to hold. They were on my shortlist from day one.