I consider myself an average consumer when it comes to electronics, gadgets, and the new and improved. My friends would beg to differ. I have seen a lot of pictures of the setup of some of the members here and most of them are amazing. I jumped into high def DVD with the A2, only because I found it for $199 back in July. If in July the $199 player was a BR than I would have purchased that.
I have seen a lot of talk about the average consumer, what they understand and what they will buy. I believe that marketing has a lot to do with it, but price is a factor as well. Both of those are obvious. How are you going to buy something if you don’t know it exists? If you can’t afford it, you can’t (shouldn’t) get it. My point in all of this is that Price was the factor for me. I had an HD TV, HD Satellite but I wanted more. So the first player that was in my budget I jumped on. The format made no difference. Do I wish I had a duel player? Of course! Do I plan on getting a BR player? Yes, once I can justify the price for my budget.
In my opinion this relates directly to the software sales at 2:1 in favor of BR. I have only purchased a few HD titles because to me the price is too much. The ones I have purchased have only been because of sales or pricing errors. If money was no object I would have both players and any DVD I wanted, but that is not reality. So I got what I could, the most affordable high def player but I do not purchase movies. I just use the online rental companies for my HD titles. Maybe if I could have initially afforded a BR player I could afford BR titles. Therefore this could be the reason that (if everything I have read is correct) even though HDDVD is leading in player sales it is behind in software sales. I hope soon enough I will be able to have both formats and not be bothered by what I can and can’t get in high def. I am not a fan of one format over another, just an average guy trying to enjoy high def.

Good comments! I am still on the fence; but I am so tempted to pick up an A2 or A3 at the pricing they are now. Trouble is that I rarely rent anymore and the store that I do rent at is not into HDM yet.

If HDM was at $15 or less regularly then I would start picking up 3-4 a month. Then again, there are a whack of movies that I would love to have on HDM that are Blu-Ray only at this point (George Romero's Dawn Of The Dead for starters!).

I am waiting to see how the new Samsung dual format player works out. Get me a full featured dual format player than meets Blu-Ray 1.1, full HD-DVD and a great DVD upscaler for around $500 and count me in!

Until then I just can't see snagging two players and having to keep both of them up to date with firmware updates.

It is all about the movies for me so dual format is where I should go. I see Blu-Ray being supported for the long run as Sony has a history of supporting formats they are involved in even if they fail (not saying that Blu-Ray is going to fail but Sony supported Beta and other formats long after others had stopped).

The more I look at this "war" the more convinced I am that both formats are going to co-exist for a long time and that being format "neutral" is the way to go. For many having a PS3 (or a standalone Blu-Ray player) plus a HD-DVD player will be the way to go.

Either I will pick up an A3, a PS3 (if enough great games finally come out for it) or preferably I will pick up a dual player. Man, if Oppo ever comes out with one that has the upscaling of the 981 and at a price point around $500 that would be awesome!:eek:

So how many people had both a VHS and a Betamax machine?

So how many people had both a VHS and a Betamax machine?

That's a good point, I don't think there were many...

That's a good point, I don't think there were many...

Not at $1000 to $1200 - the price of the decks for a long time.

Not at $1000 to $1200 - the price of the decks for a long time.

What is interesting is that our first VCR as a family cost around $800 and got used more for taping movies off the TV etc than renting. Most people I knew at that time got VHS for the great recording time. It wasn't like it is now where people own so many movies and rent on a weekly basis.

Not at $1000 to $1200 - the price of the decks for a long time.

Translate those prices to todays $ and I wonder what we have.

I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.

Translate those prices to todays $ and I wonder what we have.

I do not believe inflation would be 500% or more.

I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.

Probably more than you realize. It lasted for well over 10 years.

I remember the last great war. The food shortages, the nightly terrors.

Mom didn't know if we'd make it out alive.

I visit the statues in DC yearly. The horror...the horror.

Transformers couldn't even win a week's sales for HD DVD and in every other area of the world Blu-ray is miles ahead.

I don't see anything that points to both formats being around for a long time.

Transformers couldn't even win a week's sales for HD DVD and in every other area of the world Blu-ray is miles ahead.

I don't see anything that points to both formats being around for a long time.


How many links would you like? I believe i can provide at least 5 and probably closer to 10 that say that the format war will be a stalemate.

Transformers couldn't even win a week's sales for HD DVD and in every other area of the world Blu-ray is miles ahead.

I don't see anything that points to both formats being around for a long time.

Geez Doby would you give it a rest already.

Although I don't consider someone who is a member and frequents the AVS forum a "average" consumer I agree with most of the post. Software prices and content are very important in this format war.

I think this format is a bit different than Beta vs VHS. If this battle goes on for 10 years neither will win. I knew quite a few people who owned both VHS and Beta players including my family during the 10 year battle. In fact my parents still have movies and players for both formats.

Price is very important. But, when you are talking about a war where each format has certain studios, available titles is most important to ME.

I chose HD DVD mostly because I could care less about 95% of the movies on BD. I wouldn't take a copy of Spiderman, PotC, etc series if they were free, and they gave me a million dollars. Then you throw in Imports like BotW, Running Scared, etc for HD DVD, it really is a pretty easy choice.

Price
Available Content
Propaganda Fee Approach

Although I don't consider someone who is a member and frequents the AVS forum a "average" consumer I agree with most of the post. Software prices and content are very important in this format war.

I think this format is a bit different than Beta vs VHS. If this battle goes on for 10 years neither will win. I knew quite a few people who owned both VHS and Beta players including my family during the 10 year battle. In fact my parents still have movies and players for both formats.

I know. I have become less “average” knowledge wise after becoming a member here. I was not around for the VHS/Beta contest so I am unable to compare that to this. I do however understand what will persuade me to make a purchase now and in the future. I guess I do consider myself above average now as far as knowledge (not being egotistical) and understanding, but as far as spending power and eagerness I do feel that I fall into the average category. Although I could be completely wrong.

Price is very important. But, when you are talking about a war where each format has certain studios, available titles is most important to ME.

I chose HD DVD mostly because I could care less about 95% of the movies on BD. I wouldn't take a copy of Spiderman, PotC, etc series if they were free, and they gave me a million dollars. Then you throw in Imports like BotW, Running Scared, etc for HD DVD, it really is a pretty easy choice.

Price
Available Content
Propaganda Fee Approach

I completly understand. Honestly that is one reason I consederd myself average. When I purchased my first high def player I had no clue what movies/studios supported which format. Except for Sony of course. I just saw that I could get one for a price I could afford. I knew there would be some movies that I couldn't watch in HD but there would be many I could. To me I considerd it as somewhat taking a leap, and hoping more movies I enjoy will be available. I am a movie fan, ranging from all types independent on the studio that releases them. So whether it is Spiderman, Transformers, What Dreams May Come, or Lucky # Slevin I will watch and enjoy.

I consider myself an average consumer when it comes to electronics, gadgets, and the new and improved. My friends would beg to differ. I have seen a lot of pictures of the setup of some of the members here and most of them are amazing. I jumped into high def DVD with the A2, only because I found it for $199 back in July. If in July the $199 player was a BR than I would have purchased that.
I have seen a lot of talk about the average consumer, what they understand and what they will buy. I believe that marketing has a lot to do with it, but price is a factor as well. Both of those are obvious. How are you going to buy something if you don’t know it exists? If you can’t afford it, you can’t (shouldn’t) get it. My point in all of this is that Price was the factor for me. I had an HD TV, HD Satellite but I wanted more. So the first player that was in my budget I jumped on. The format made no difference. Do I wish I had a duel player? Of course! Do I plan on getting a BR player? Yes, once I can justify the price for my budget.
In my opinion this relates directly to the software sales at 2:1 in favor of BR. I have only purchased a few HD titles because to me the price is too much. The ones I have purchased have only been because of sales or pricing errors. If money was no object I would have both players and any DVD I wanted, but that is not reality. So I got what I could, the most affordable high def player but I do not purchase movies. I just use the online rental companies for my HD titles. Maybe if I could have initially afforded a BR player I could afford BR titles. Therefore this could be the reason that (if everything I have read is correct) even though HDDVD is leading in player sales it is behind in software sales. I hope soon enough I will be able to have both formats and not be bothered by what I can and can’t get in high def. I am not a fan of one format over another, just an average guy trying to enjoy high def.

Good points newguy...pricing is a huge factor...many here think it's not, but it is..especially on the software side.

You pointed out that you "wanted more" as far as high def so ya jumped in....the thing is, does the truly average shopper who has multiple players and a bunch of discs feel that passion too like you did/do or will they be content and pass both formats by regardless if it's $199 or maybe less?

We will see....

You may be waiting a while. A "great" upscaling player like the XA30 is still over $500, and it only does one HDM format.

...Get me a full featured dual format player than meets Blu-Ray 1.1, full HD-DVD and a great DVD upscaler for around $500 and count me in!...

Translate those prices to todays $ and I wonder what we have.

I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.

$1k from 1980 is ~$2583 today. It would have cost you over $5K in today's dollars to own both back then. VCR's hit $300 in '85(8 years into the format war) which is $581 today. I think you will see a lot of dual/neutral owners soon as it will be not cost prohibitive. I have an A2 because I snagged it on a $200 deal. I will have BD too as soon as I can get one at $200 or less.

I consider myself an average consumer when it comes to electronics, gadgets, and the new and improved. My friends would beg to differ. I have seen a lot of pictures of the setup of some of the members here and most of them are amazing. I jumped into high def DVD with the A2, only because I found it for $199 back in July. If in July the $199 player was a BR than I would have purchased that.
I have seen a lot of talk about the average consumer, what they understand and what they will buy. I believe that marketing has a lot to do with it, but price is a factor as well. Both of those are obvious. How are you going to buy something if you don’t know it exists? If you can’t afford it, you can’t (shouldn’t) get it. My point in all of this is that Price was the factor for me. I had an HD TV, HD Satellite but I wanted more. So the first player that was in my budget I jumped on. The format made no difference. Do I wish I had a duel player? Of course! Do I plan on getting a BR player? Yes, once I can justify the price for my budget.
In my opinion this relates directly to the software sales at 2:1 in favor of BR. I have only purchased a few HD titles because to me the price is too much. The ones I have purchased have only been because of sales or pricing errors. If money was no object I would have both players and any DVD I wanted, but that is not reality. So I got what I could, the most affordable high def player but I do not purchase movies. I just use the online rental companies for my HD titles. Maybe if I could have initially afforded a BR player I could afford BR titles. Therefore this could be the reason that (if everything I have read is correct) even though HDDVD is leading in player sales it is behind in software sales. I hope soon enough I will be able to have both formats and not be bothered by what I can and can’t get in high def. I am not a fan of one format over another, just an average guy trying to enjoy high def.
One thing you may want to consider is the cost of the player will eventually be small vs the cost of your eventual movie library. To date HD-DVD has not had any software side sales like BD has (BOGO offers) and other than their bundling of freebies with your player purchase that BD quickly matched there is no indication they will.

Good points newguy...pricing is a huge factor...many here think it's not, but it is..especially on the software side.

You pointed out that you "wanted more" as far as high def so ya jumped in....the thing is, does the truly average shopper who has multiple players and a bunch of discs feel that passion too like you did/do or will they be content and pass both formats by regardless if it's $199 or maybe less?

We will see....

I think age could be a larger variable in this than it may seem. From not being involved with previous “wars” and maybe getting their first TV and setup, it maybe easier to jump in than to convert a current setup and mindset. My parents who have seen these types of battles before have HD programming but are reluctant to jump into high def DVD’s; they want to wait until things are sorted out. If the average shopper is purchasing a new TV (almost all now are HD) they may not own numerous DVD players, and even if they do the players are probably not equipped with the newest connections. They may want to upgrade that as well. Like you said, “we will see”. I think that with most things, the more people here about something, and see that something, and see other people with that something, they will want that something.

I consider myself an average consumer when it comes to electronics, gadgets, and the new and improved. My friends would beg to differ. I have seen a lot of pictures of the setup of some of the members here and most of them are amazing. I jumped into high def DVD with the A2, only because I found it for $199 back in July. If in July the $199 player was a BR than I would have purchased that.
I have seen a lot of talk about the average consumer, what they understand and what they will buy. I believe that marketing has a lot to do with it, but price is a factor as well. Both of those are obvious. How are you going to buy something if you don’t know it exists? If you can’t afford it, you can’t (shouldn’t) get it. My point in all of this is that Price was the factor for me. I had an HD TV, HD Satellite but I wanted more. So the first player that was in my budget I jumped on. The format made no difference. Do I wish I had a duel player? Of course! Do I plan on getting a BR player? Yes, once I can justify the price for my budget.
In my opinion this relates directly to the software sales at 2:1 in favor of BR. I have only purchased a few HD titles because to me the price is too much. The ones I have purchased have only been because of sales or pricing errors. If money was no object I would have both players and any DVD I wanted, but that is not reality. So I got what I could, the most affordable high def player but I do not purchase movies. I just use the online rental companies for my HD titles. Maybe if I could have initially afforded a BR player I could afford BR titles. Therefore this could be the reason that (if everything I have read is correct) even though HDDVD is leading in player sales it is behind in software sales. I hope soon enough I will be able to have both formats and not be bothered by what I can and can’t get in high def. I am not a fan of one format over another, just an average guy trying to enjoy high def.

Thank you for your comments.

I have always said that the more accessible format is the better format. Both formats look great on 42 inch HDTVs and sound great on $200 HTiBs - both of which are way above average.

The one with cheaper HW prices and cheaper SW prices will be the better format to me. The one that MR. Average Consumer feels is worth buying is the that will win. Right now its neither. HD DVD is near with HW, and BR is near with BOGO (but most of that ended).

$1k from 1980 is ~$2583 today. It would have cost you over $5K in today's dollars to own both back then. VCR's hit $300 in '85(8 years into the format war) which is $581 today. I think you will see a lot of dual/neutral owners soon as it will be not cost prohibitive. I have an A2 because I snagged it on a $200 deal. I will have BD too as soon as I can get one at $200 or less.

Can you provide a link to that $300 priced VCR in 1985 please.

One thing you may want to consider is the cost of the player will eventually be small vs the cost of your eventual movie library. To date HD-DVD has not had any software side sales like BD has (BOGO offers) and other than their bundling of freebies with your player purchase that BD quickly matched there is no indication they will.

You are correct, and an excellent point. I do have quit a few DVD’s my collection but, most of them just collect dust now. But the value of my collection does outweigh the value of my DVD player. I used to purchase DVD’s all of the time, now it is extremely rare. I would justify the price of the DVD with the rental cost and determine it was not much more just to own it. Now with the online rentals the price per rental for me is nominal and my “calculated savings” with the purchase has diminished. Not to mention realizing that I really didn’t watch each DVD more than once, honestly some are still in the wrapper.

Can you provide a link to that $300 priced VCR in 1985 please.


Hope this helps...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3092/is_v25/ai_4273781

Hope this helps...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3092/is_v25/ai_4273781

But last year 22% of all VCRs sold for less than $300 while 56% cost between $300 and $499. Despite the introduction of higher-end stereo VCRs and camcorders, only 8% of purchases were for VCRs costing more than $700.

OK - that fits - 22% below $300 . . . 78% above $300

So you really believe that J6P is going to buy 2 players - one of each? One for $198 and the other for $488? = almost $700 to be able to see whatever HD movie he wants.

Nope - just looked - no pigs flying today.

I think age could be a larger variable in this than it may seem. From not being involved with previous “wars” and maybe getting their first TV and setup, it maybe easier to jump in than to convert a current setup and mindset. My parents who have seen these types of battles before have HD programming but are reluctant to jump into high def DVD’s; they want to wait until things are sorted out. If the average shopper is purchasing a new TV (almost all now are HD) they may not own numerous DVD players, and even if they do the players are probably not equipped with the newest connections. They may want to upgrade that as well. Like you said, “we will see”. I think that with most things, the more people here about something, and see that something, and see other people with that something, they will want that something.

Sorry, I disagree about the age idea. I am well over 50 and have both formats (have had them for over a year). I think it's going to be price that does it, pure and simple. Players and media both. What those price points are is anybody's guess. And if we don't reach that magic price point relatively soon both formats will be long gone.

OK - that fits - 22% below $300 . . . 78% above $300

So you really believe that J6P is going to buy 2 players - one of each? One for $198 and the other for $488? = almost $700 to be able to see whatever HD movie he wants.

Nope - just looked - no pigs flying today.

Who me??? Hey I'm just the messenger..you asked for a link and I found one... :)

Sorry, I disagree about the age idea. I am well over 50 and have both formats (have had them for over a year). I think it's going to be price that does it, pure and simple. Players and media both. What those price points are is anybody's guess. And if we don't reach that magic price point relatively soon both formats will be long gone.

Price is number one in my opinion as well. The age variable is a theory that I haven't seen here before, jsut thought I would throw it out there.

OK - that fits - 22% below $300 . . . 78% above $300

So you really believe that J6P is going to buy 2 players - one of each? One for $198 and the other for $488? = almost $700 to be able to see whatever HD movie he wants.

Nope - just looked - no pigs flying today.

By soon I mean holidays '08 and I would say it would be enthusiasts at that point and j6p later. You should be able to own both or a dual by the end 08 for under $400.

I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.

I actually bought my familys first VCR, a top loading WIRED REMOTE Sanyo BETA machine, and worked at a local video store right around 1985 if memory serves. We stocked both beta and vhs titles in the store, but usually only 1 copy on beta and 5-10+ on vhs. What eventualy finished Beta, IMO was that type of title availibilty at most rental stores. If you only had a Beta machine it was harder to get the new releases when they came out. as the prices came down beta only owners, myself included bought a VHS because if you wanted to rent movies, that was the easiest way to do it. As the demand changed, we eventually dropped and sold off all the beta titles our store carried.

It's kinda like DVD and HI-Def right now, There is 1 Blockbuster 20 minutes away from where I live that rents BD. They get 1 copy of each title. So to try to get that one copy of a new release is pretty rough. Most people just want to go the video store and be able to grab one of that weeks new releases off the shelf. Without stocking 10+ copies of a HI-DEF title thats not going to happen. If the HDM formats cannot get a noticable number of well stocked titles into the rental stores, I think they'll be stuck in a LASERDISC (owned that as well) niche market, for the foreseable future.

Originally Posted by Lee Heytow
I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.


Yep I was around watching the two try to survive...I remember some mom and pop video stores trying to carry both...but before ya knew it week after week VHS started filling the shelves more and more...soon Beta was sitting in a sale bin and that was about the end of it.

We only owned VHS machines, but I had friends whose families had Beta..but soon those machines were retired and VHS was the player of choice.

I remember how excited I was to actually be able to BUY "Raiders of the Lost Ark" on VHS and watch it at home..back them I just had a basic stereo but boy was it fun plugging the vcr audio into that and hearing the John Williams score boom out...:)

I remember how excited I was to actually be able to BUY "Raiders of the Lost Ark" on VHS and watch it at home..back them I just had a basic stereo but boy was it fun plugging the vcr audio into that and hearing the John Williams score boom out...:)

No sh!t.... I remember that. I also remember how cool it was to able to watch Jaws at home whenever I wanted to on our Boxy RCA TV. It was heaven. Now, we piss and moan about bitrates and lossless audio....

Whiners!

:D

When my family bought our first VCR in about 1986 I can remember that Bets/VHS was still a decision we had to make. Despite being Sony fans, we went with VHS because there were more rental movies available. Had the movie selections been equal, we probably would have gone with Beta.

I remember the VHS/Beta war when I was around 12 or 13 and we had both players. We also had quite a few movies and tv recordings on both formats. Then one day our house was hit by a power surge and it fried both machines. We used the payoff from PG&E to buy new appliances, a surge supressor :rolleyes:, and a brand new VHS machine. We never bought a new Beta machine because nobody was making them anymore. All our Beta movies and tapes ended up in the trash a few years later.:(

Transformers couldn't even win a week's sales for HD DVD and in every other area of the world Blu-ray is miles ahead.

I don't see anything that points to both formats being around for a long time.

Of course YOU dont. You follow the same blind loyalty many on both sides follow. The motto being:
"Screw the truth it must be better because THEY told me it is"

This is what is inherently wrong with this situation. And let me do the math again:

BD 51% at 2 for 1 = 25.5%
HD DVD 49%

HD DVD wins software sales that week. period. What does this mean? Really nothing because HD as a format either way is niche at best. It is like Little league compared to MLB and MLB being dvd.:)

It's ALL about price. Ask Paramount.

The war that people forgot about was Tape vs Laserdisc. At one time a movie was cheeper on Laserdisc then on VHS. Then Paramount worked the numbers and the moons aligned and it became cheep enough to mass produce tape and Paramount lowered the price of some movies to $20.

I'll bet anyone here you'll see that again, within 6 months, and HD-DVD will win.

Transformers couldn't even win a week's sales for HD DVD and in every other area of the world Blu-ray is miles ahead.

I don't see anything that points to both formats being around for a long time.

Take half of the Disney title counts away and what do you get? HD DVD winning the week pretty easily.

I worked in a video store from 1990-1991 (remember the guy from Clerks- that was what it was like) and we still rented Beta. The thing is that the market is MUCH different. Most new release movies then were $80, some even over $100. They dropped the prices to $25 three months later. Even if you consider the highest end player out there now being $1000 (Pioneer Elite 95 Blu-ray player) and the most expensive disk being $35, for a new medium the prices are very cheap and will come down. I would not even be surprised if the day after Thanksgiving you see some BD or HD-DVDs at $9.99. It took DVD years to get to that price point, three if my memory is correct. All of these figures are without inflation.

Take half of the Disney title counts away and what do you get? HD DVD winning the week pretty easily.

Just like if we took 17% of BD's first week 300 sales that would have been a tie for HDDVD.

Well guess what ;

NO TAKE BACKS

Had to use caps? Little nervous? :D

I'm a BD supporter (about 35 discs so far) but sometimes I wonder if Sony has its head in the game and really wants to win. I guess i'm referring to hardware price. With the possibility of a $199 player at Walmart or wherever, the high def player (HD-DVD) will soon become a commodity. If enough regular Joes start picking them up, the ballgame is over no matter who has the lead.

Sony has already proven it knows how to lose a format war. Anyway, I think I chose wisely going the BD route but Sony's lack of fight is worrisome.

My 2c......

I'm a BD supporter (about 35 discs so far) but sometimes I wonder if Sony has its head in the game and really wants to win. I guess i'm referring to hardware price. With the possibility of a $199 player at Walmart or wherever, the high def player (HD-DVD) will soon become a commodity. If enough regular Joes start picking them up, the ballgame is over no matter who has the lead.

Sony has already proven it knows how to lose a format war. Anyway, I think I chose wisely going the BD route but Sony's lack of fight is worrisome.

My 2c......

There is NO "possibility" of a $199 priced HD DVD player at WM. It is a FACT - at $198. We have pictures of the endcap and we have a press release by Mellissa O'Brien - spokes person for Wal-Mart.

Do you need the link?

this one from HDD?

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Toshiba/Wal-Mart/Wal-Mart_Stocks_Sub-$200_HD_DVD_Player/1110

or this one from Fotune and CNN and Money Magazine?

http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/10/25/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-wal-mart-offers-toshiba-player-for-under-200/

newguy416

You are exactly the kind of buyer toshiba is hoping to avoid. They want people to buy the cheap hardware that costs them money per unit sold (aka, at a loss) so that they turn around and buy tons of software because of the savings. There is the problem tho. If someone can barely afford the player, how do you expect them to purchase tons of software that is on average 2-5x more expensive then its DVD counterpart which looks fine with a 50 dollar DVD Upscaler? Its been said time and time again, these formats are not ready for the mainstreem, but only one side gets that, the other is in a rut and desperately looking for a group to push them back into the game. No offense to you, but you're the perfect HD DVD owner in the eyes of the BDA, buy the hardware that loses toshiba money, then never buy software.

I hope more like you show up :)

Here is the actual quote from Ms. O'Brien:

“We reduced our HD DVD Toshiba player, the generation-two, to $198 earlier in the week,” Wal-Mart spokeswoman Melissa O’Brien confirmed. “It’s happening now, and that’s really all I can tell you. We don’t give any information on what we’re planning to do for the holidays. We know HD DVD and Blu-ray are going to be popular items this holiday season for some of our customers. … They will be more popular this year than they were in previous years.”

O’Brien said rumors that each Wal-Mart store would stock only 18 units of the Toshiba player were false. “There are no limited quantities for stores or purchases.”

newguy416

You are exactly the kind of buyer toshiba is hoping to avoid. They want people to buy the cheap hardware that costs them money per unit sold (aka, at a loss) so that they turn around and buy tons of software because of the savings. There is the problem tho. If someone can barely afford the player, how do you expect them to purchase tons of software that is on average 2-5x more expensive then its DVD counterpart which looks fine with a 50 dollar DVD Upscaler? Its been said time and time again, these formats are not ready for the mainstreem, but only one side gets that, the other is in a rut and desperately looking for a group to push them back into the game. No offense to you, but you're the perfect HD DVD owner in the eyes of the BDA, buy the hardware that loses toshiba money, then never buy software.

I hope more like you show up :)

Link to show that Toshiba is losing money on the A2 please.;)

Translate those prices to todays $ and I wonder what we have.

I also wonder how many in this forum are actually old enough to really remember the VHS/Beta war.
I do!!! We had both and let me tell you, that Sony Betamax player was a hoss too. They were both top loaders and the Sony was EASILY twice the size of our Panasonic VHS machine. It was really nice there for a while knowing full well we could go to the video rental store at the base exchange (we were stationed in Germany back then) and get any movie we wanted.

How about these Wal-Mart $198 player pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/mikey_mike777/walmart1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/mikey_mike777/walmart2.jpg

http://www.dailytech.com/WalMart+to+Carry+198+Toshiba+HD+DVD+Player/article9404.htm

How about these Wal-Mart $198 player pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/mikey_mike777/walmart1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v308/mikey_mike777/walmart2.jpg

http://www.dailytech.com/WalMart+to+Carry+198+Toshiba+HD+DVD+Player/article9404.htm
1. Photoshopped
2. Proof that no one is buying them
3. Who shops at Walmart? Icky people shop there.

how do you expect them to purchase tons of software that is on average 2-5x more expensive then its DVD counterpart What if the HD DVD BOGO sale is on Black Friday at Wal-Mart?

1. Photoshopped
2. Proof that no one is buying them
3. Who shops at Walmart? Icky people shop there.


Big fat 'ol...:rolleyes::rolleyes: for you sir.

What if the HD DVD BOGO sale is on Black Friday at Wal-Mart?

What if babys could fly?

What if Transformers actually sold 190k they said they did vs the 115k (or less) they actually did?

What if you stop using What Ifs and stick to reality?

What if babys could fly?

What if Transformers actually sold 190k they said they did vs the 115k (or less) they actually did?

What if you stop using What Ifs and stick to reality?

Sure - good idea - we have enough speculation as it is.

Wal-Mart is selling the A2W for $198. That is a simple fact. Can't be argued with. All the proof in the world exists.

The ONLY thing we can speculate about is will the general public buy them in droves? - THAT is the only question.

So how many people had both a VHS and a Betamax machine?

I believe all Movies were available for both formats, why would you buy both?

I believe all Movies were available for both formats, why would you buy both?

You believe . . are you sure?

It's ALL about price. Ask Paramount.

The war that people forgot about was Tape vs Laserdisc. At one time a movie was cheeper on Laserdisc then on VHS. Then Paramount worked the numbers and the moons aligned and it became cheep enough to mass produce tape and Paramount lowered the price of some movies to $20.

I'll bet anyone here you'll see that again, within 6 months, and HD-DVD will win.What is the bet?

It's all about the price, availability. why?

1. Good upconverting DVD player. it looks pretty good (fanbois no yelling!)
2. about 30% people don't REALLY know what HD is. (find a poll there's plenty)
3. many polls indicate 60% of ps3 owners don't know it has bluray (there's your blueray sales that really shouldn't count)
4. many people have an HDTV but with s-video, composite, stretchovision and THINK they get HD. think they're going to spend $200+ for an HD player when they see what they think is HD and it looks the same as their current dvd player or worse?

this isn't a completely new format. it's a prettier dvd player that costs alot. until you can only buy HDTV's an DVD players don't exist (when HD players are as cheap as dvd players) you're not going to get a huge market on HD players and by then.. new formats will have come along and we'll be fighting a whole new battle on products that look and sound just about the same

Take half of the Disney title counts away and what do you get? HD DVD winning the week pretty easily.We could also say the same about the south during the Civil War. Take away half of the Army Of The Potomac and we would have won Gettysburg easily. Blu 2 for 2!

What if babys could fly?

What if Transformers actually sold 190k they said they did vs the 115k (or less) they actually did?

What if you stop using What Ifs and stick to reality?

You know for awhile thier I thought the red team spun as much and sometimes more than the blue team....after reading your posts I realize how wrong I was. You are a human FUD machine...where do you get these outrageuos numbers from?
Please prove with links that they did not sell, and I dont care how much like BD fans dont care, they didn't sell 190k?
I want proof and if you dont have it label your comments as your OPINION. If you do please provide it so we can all see it. Thanks:)

One thing you may want to consider is the cost of the player will eventually be small vs the cost of your eventual movie library. To date HD-DVD has not had any software side sales like BD has (BOGO offers) and other than their bundling of freebies with your player purchase that BD quickly matched there is no indication they will.

I have a very low average purchase price on all my media. While I am around $13.00 or less average on BD. I am only a dollar or two higher on HD DVD, most of that can be attributed to combos. Carefull shoppers find deals. Buying Day and Date releases is where the budget will get blown. For the most part I don't care about Day and Date stuff. I did pick up Transformers on the CC pricing glitch. I paid about $25.00 for 300 Day and Date.

I am more a catalog guy overall and I tend to watch Fry's and a few others for deals. I have found a lot more bargains through these forums, that is definitely an AVS value add. At this point I have more HDM movies than I know what to do with. HD DVD will have even more bargains over time as more stores compete. I make people price match whenever possible.

This pricing competition between formats will continue.. people who picked up on the 360AO over the last few days at BB can attest to that. Many will eBay the drives and keep the software and will have bought box several expensive sets for virtually nothing. What moves HDM media and players is price. In the end that is going to play to HD DVD strenghts.. cheap players, and very low cost reproduction.

I worked in a video store from 1990-1991 (remember the guy from Clerks- that was what it was like) and we still rented Beta. The thing is that the market is MUCH different. Most new release movies then were $80, some even over $100. They dropped the prices to $25 three months later. Even if you consider the highest end player out there now being $1000 (Pioneer Elite 95 Blu-ray player) and the most expensive disk being $35, for a new medium the prices are very cheap and will come down. I would not even be surprised if the day after Thanksgiving you see some BD or HD-DVDs at $9.99. It took DVD years to get to that price point, three if my memory is correct. All of these figures are without inflation.

We have already seen $9.99 pricing. I bought 20 BDs at either Fry's or BBs on Fy's price match a week ago... Currently the $9.99 BD pricing is an aberration becuase it was an ideal time to remedy an inventory problem but once HD DVD has the scale its production costs are going to allow lots of catalog software to sell this cheap or cheaper on promos.

It's all about the price, availability. why?

1. Good upconverting DVD player. it looks pretty good (fanbois no yelling!)
2. about 30% people don't REALLY know what HD is. (find a poll there's plenty)
3. many polls indicate 60% of ps3 owners don't know it has bluray (there's your blueray sales that really shouldn't count)
4. many people have an HDTV but with s-video, composite, stretchovision and THINK they get HD. think they're going to spend $200+ for an HD player when they see what they think is HD and it looks the same as their current dvd player or worse?

this isn't a completely new format. it's a prettier dvd player that costs alot. until you can only buy HDTV's an DVD players don't exist (when HD players are as cheap as dvd players) you're not going to get a huge market on HD players and by then.. new formats will have come along and we'll be fighting a whole new battle on products that look and sound just about the same

I disagree with this statement, the average consumer that has purchased an HDTV knows about HDMI cable and inputs involving HD, and todays consumer education comes all the way from the retailer to the sat provider... how do I know? I will only say that I work with/for Directv, and the current request for an upgrade to HiDef is such that there's a shortage of techs/installers to install the KA/KU ODU ( HiDef dish) and the all of a sudden most requested IRD (receiver): the HD DVR...seriously, at this point in time "average joe" knows what a HDMI cable is and its making sure his HDTV runs via HDMI.

You believe . . are you sure?

In my area I lived in, in Minnesota at that time, YES Lee, I am sure.

I used to buy my roommate a new VHS every month for rent. Those movies were like around $100 each. That's why it was so important to be able to rent. Who could afford to buy movies at that price.

The VHS/Beta war never lasted 10 years around here. Bought first player in early 80's (not so sure exact year) but within three years, you could not find any Betamax movies to rent. YES Lee, I am sure.

In my area I lived in, in Minnesota at that time, YES Lee, I am sure.

I used to buy my roommate a new VHS every month for rent. Those movies were like around $100 each. That's why it was so important to be able to rent. Who could afford to buy movies at that price.

The VHS/Beta war never lasted 10 years around here. Bought first player in early 80's (not so sure exact year) but within three years, you could not find any Betamax movies to rent. YES Lee, I am sure.

So you are speaking for your area in Minn. - OK - understood.