I calibrated my projector for perfect black level via DVE (outside bars fade into background). After doing this, I found that I lost a lot of detail in dark scenes (black crush)?

Seems like whenever you increase brightness, you see more detail in dark scenes. Therefore, is it best to calibrate black level and lose detail or to raise brightness and sacrifice black level for more detail?

Am I losing detial because that info isn't meant to be seen?

Are you referring to just when you watch other DVDs?

If by ‘perfect’ you mean setting black such that it is as low as is absolutely possible then perceptually (and in comparison to your higher setting) dark details will start to fall below your perception threshold.

Did you set ‘perfectly’ with instrumentation? Perceptually? Low APL pattern? Dark ambient?

I think if you use your perceptions of black to set the point for your black clamp, then you may find a different ‘perfect’ based on the ambient conditions and the APL of the test image used.

Also, many use a modified EO gamma curve to come out of black a little faster than spec. This can afford the opportunity to still kinda have the full fade to bat cave black yet get some of that perceptual loss of dark details that can accompany that back. Subjectively and perceptually remap the tonal range. My 02.

Dave

Thanks. I don't have any tools so I can't determine what the gamma is. I was setting the black level (adjusting brightness) using DVE perceptually. The DVE pattern says that the outside bars are 2% below video black, so adjust brightness until those bars fade into the background.

Greetings

If you make the blacker than black fade into the black, then you are seeing all you are supposed to see in the dark end.

Obviously if a DVD is improperly transferred, then an optimal setting will not deliver an optimal image.

Wanting to see the blacker than black material is like saying you want to see the boom mike hanging above the actors when they talk. Kinda takes away from the magic ... and you then ask yourself why your blacks are crappy looking.

Regards

You're not being very clear. Are you saying you are losing detail in all program material or only when you are watching DVDs?

Depending on the APL of the pattern you use to set black level, you may bias your black level setting higher or lower. Higher settings will better preserve shadow detail, lower settings will better preserve absolute black. Depending on the ANSI CR performance of your display, the breadth of this compromise range may be quite large, especially if you are using a CRT which has the potential to go completely to full fade to black, but can't do that while also maintaining shadow detail becaise of poor ANSI performance.

You will want to experiment and choose at a good compromise setting that attains good (but not perfect) black levels and shadow details to your liking, depending on how important you weight each according to your preferences.

This, of course, assumes that there are not other issues involved, such as grayscale problems, gamma problems, etc, which should be rectified first.

Raising the brightness above the correct value will put too much white into the colors and desaturate the colors to some extent. This will be more obvious in darker scenes and the higher the black level is raised.

The DVE pattern says that the outside bars are 2% below video black, so adjust brightness until those bars fade into the background.

I guess my point was that your perception of what is ‘faded’ or ‘blended’ and your perception of ‘background black’ for any given display will likely vary based on the ambient viewing conditions and the overall APL of the test pattern used. My perceptions and my eyes iris change and adapt to changes in conditions.

IIRC, DVE has black pluge patters in various APLs, Did you use the lowest APL pattern or the highest? Generally, test patterns with about an 18% (50% perceptually) APL are considered to represent the average average image.

Also, it’s usually advised to set this under the same ambient lighting conditions as you use for your viewing. If you set your black level by perception with all the lights off at night with a low APL pattern, you would perceptually and comparatively have crushed darks if viewed with the lights on or during the day.

Dave