Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

Paramount just paid $150,000,000.00 so that they can have their HD collection easily copied!!:D They'll be Blu in no time!!!;)

I could have sworn that discussions of hacking are forbidden here at AVS.

Hooray for fair use! It was enough to get folks to dump DIVX (DVIX?) maybe people will wake up and send BD packing as well.

I have to say I am surprised that it has taken this long for BD+ to get hacked.

With that said, it will be hacked and it's going to be soon.

I have to say I am surprised that it has taken this long for BD+ to get hacked.

With that said, it will be hacked and it's going to be soon.

BD+, like AACS will take a mistake or leak (did I say that) to be broken.

Well being hacked and actually making people buy legal copies are 2 different things. I know a lot of people who hack quite often yet they bought HD DVD. Why? Simply because they can't hack special features, online stuff, extras and the overall experience of the title.

This is basically a good thing. There's no way to stop piracy, the only way you can make people actually buy a product is to offer more original and fun content that physicially can't be reproduced by copying.

Unfortunately for Blu-Ray, HD DVD is the one with this advantage. Once, BD+ is hacked, the only value that BD titles have (the movie itself) will make them completely obsolete leave potential customers completely uninterested to purchase the original.

The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands.

Is this true ?

Art

I could have sworn that discussions of hacking are forbidden here at AVS.I think that discussions related to how to hack, or how to obtain the fruits of hacking are forbidden and for very good reason. This is a discussion of security measures that are, to date, proving effective. And that is a good thing to exist --certainly for anyone who believes in intellectual property rights. And it (or the lack of it) is a good thing to discuss.

Well being hacked and actually making people buy legal copies are 2 different things. I know a lot of people who hack quite often yet they bought HD DVD. Why? Simply because they can't hack special features, online stuff, extras and the overall experience of the title.

This is basically a good thing. There's no way to stop piracy, the only way you can make people actually buy a product is to offer more original and fun content that physicially can't be reproduced by copying.

Unfortunately for Blu-Ray, HD DVD is the one with this advantage. Once, BD+ is hacked, the only value that BD titles have (the movie itself) will make them completely obsolete leave potential customers completely uninterested to purchase the original.

Is this a joke? You can access ALL the special features, online stuff and extras with the pirated Transformers disc using PowerDVD. Is there any other wise words you'd like to share with us?

In all fairness to HD DVD, AACS was only hacked to pieces because the Microsoft Xbox 360 HD DVD drive was not secured. Isn't this the case? AACS also hasn't been cracked yet, so till that does, AACS LA still has some degree of effectiveness.

BD+ is gonna end up likewise.

Well being hacked and actually making people buy legal copies are 2 different things. I know a lot of people who hack quite often yet they bought HD DVD. Why? Simply because they can't hack special features, online stuff, extras and the overall experience of the title.

This is basically a good thing. There's no way to stop piracy, the only way you can make people actually buy a product is to offer more original and fun content that physicially can't be reproduced by copying.

Unfortunately for Blu-Ray, HD DVD is the one with this advantage. Once, BD+ is hacked, the only value that BD titles have (the movie itself) will make them completely obsolete leave potential customers completely uninterested to purchase the original.Now this is original. "HD-DVD is too wonderful to hack." It's apparently sacred and holy. I didn't see that in the talking points.

Is this true ?

Art

I'm sure there are enough rogues on here that can answer that.

movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted.

No they aren't. One can get the full DVD right now full DVD right now if they wish. In a few months the cable and sat HD versions will be right beside them. No one that wants to see these movies and not buy them is going to miss them. Fox has saved exactly nothing.

Paramount just paid $150,000,000.00 so that they can have their HD collection easily copied!!:D They'll be Blu in no time!!!;)

How quickly we forget about an 18 month contract... you need to start thinking before typing Jeff.

Is this a joke? You can access ALL the special features, online stuff and extras with the pirated Transformers disc using PowerDVD. Is there any other wise words you'd like to share with us?

You'd need to capture the entire ripped HD DVD onto a HDD as a folder or an ISO, and you'll need a piece of software that makes the PowerDVD or other software think that the ISO file is a HD DVD drive. Once that happens, it might be possible to archive them on a HDD...

They are kind of big though.

You'd need to capture the entire ripped HD DVD onto a HDD as a folder or an ISO, and you'll need a piece of software that makes the PowerDVD or other software think that the ISO file is a HD DVD drive. Once that happens, it might be possible to archive them on a HDD...

They are kind of big though.

That's the funny thing. For the foreseeable future these discs don't need any protection. No one wants them and they are too big to store. IF a rip screws anyone, it's Blockbuster.

OP be sure and come back when BD+ is cracked and ask the same question.

i don't get it, who downloads 30gb just to watch one freaking movie? the only reason why illegal movie downloads took off is because they were small and easy to download.

OP be sure and come back when BD+ is cracked and ask the same question.

When one of them is cracked? Or all of them? Each disc has its own protection scheme, so they will have to be cracked one by one. After which one would you like me to respond to?

When one of them is cracked? Or all of them? Each disc has its own protection scheme, so they will have to be cracked one by one. After which one would you like me to respond to?
That is exactly what they said about AACS.
"Oh, this is an isolated incident that will be corrected on future discs."

I don't think it will have a big effect, if any, on the format war. I say that because I don't think this is a big enough deal to push a studio a direction it wasn't already leaning. For example, I would not expect Paramount to stop using HD DVD nor Warner for that matter. At the same time, Fox, Disney, and some of the other non-Sony BDA members were not showing any signs of adopting HD DVD, so this hack hasn't changed anything.

It's bad news as we all hope studios will start putting out their best titles on the new formats, if they decide to delay those. But, it's good news if you want to be able to transfer your HD DVDs to your iPod or similar device.

When one of them is cracked? Or all of them? Each disc has its own protection scheme, so they will have to be cracked one by one. After which one would you like me to respond to?


That why you need a firmware update for every movie released? ;)

No they aren't. One can get the full DVD right now full DVD right now if they wish. In a few months the cable and sat HD versions will be right beside them. No one that wants to see these movies and not buy them is going to miss them. Fox has saved exactly nothing.Say what??

I could have sworn that discussions of hacking are forbidden here at AVS.Lee, this thread doesn't discuss any method of hacking and merely points out that BD+ has yet to be hacked while a major HD DVD title like Transformers has. Considering that several HD DVD supporters have made anti-BD+ threads and went on to say how much they hoped BD+ would be hacked it seems to me that this thread is benign in comparison. Why than are you so concerned about it?


I have to say I am surprised that it has taken this long for BD+ to get hacked.

With that said, it will be hacked and it's going to be soon.Maybe, but it seems to me that BD+ has proved stronger than certain HD DVD supporters assumed and I get the sense that worries them. After all though certain HD DVD supporters are happy that AACS keeps getting broken I doubt that any of the studios are happy about that fact.

Say what??
That's weird. I didn't type that twice. It was worth repeating though.

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

fox will stay where they are b/c of this; the rest are not going to be affected either way

i don't get it, who downloads 30gb just to watch one freaking movie? the only reason why illegal movie downloads took off is because they were small and easy to download.

Well, They probably downrez it. Plus people can also rent the movie via netflix or BB total access. $20 is less than the cost of one HDDVD

It really sucks that people put so much work into these movies, just to have it ripped and distributed all over the internet in a week or day.

Hooray for fair use! It was enough to get folks to dump DIVX (DVIX?) maybe people will wake up and send BD packing as well.

DIVX != BD

DIVX discs destroyed themselves after a set period of time. Blu ray discs do nothing like that. who do you think you're fooling?

DIVX != BD

DIVX discs destroyed themselves after a set period of time. Blu ray discs do nothing like that. who do you think you're fooling?

Not you it would seem.

That is exactly what they said about AACS.
"Oh, this is an isolated incident that will be corrected on future discs."

except BD+ actually does use unique keys on every disc. not every title, every individual disc. HD DVD's use the same keys for every disc of a given title. see the difference?

except BD+ actually does use unique keys on every disc. not every title, every individual disc. HD DVD's use the same keys for every disc of a given title. see the difference?
You mean the same way that say Windows or Photoshop has a unique number for every disc?

This is probably because there was much more motivation for hackers to crack Transformers while nobody really cares about Fox flops such as The Day After and Fantastic Four: Rise of Silver Surfer. Live Free or Die Hard was the only decent movie from Fox this past summer and it still flopped at the box office. I love the Simpsons but let's face it, the show is a mere shadow of what it was 10 years ago. Matt Groening needs to end this series with what dignity it has left. In other words, The Simpsons Movie sucked bigtime! I'll take a classic episode of the Simpsons over that pathetic excuse of a movie anyday.

How will it effect the format war? It will make Universal consider switching, because their intellectual property could be protected. The same goes for Warner. Unless BD+ is hacked, then HD DVD will be the stomping ground for movie hackers.

It will take a little longer time to hack the BD+ titles, after all its a new system. That said, i do agree HiDef4Life that there is another good reason why someone would hack transformers quicker then the recent BD+ Fox movies ;)

I am very surprised that BD+ hasn't been hacked yet, every hacker in the world will see it as a trophy on their mantel.

Elviser, if it is true that every disc has its own unique key, that is very ingenious for a sub standard format.:D

I am very surprised that BD+ hasn't been hacked yet, every hacker in the world will see it as a trophy on their mantel.


Every hacker wants, but few afford a BD-rom ;)

How will it effect the format war? It will make Universal consider switching, because their intellectual property could be protected. The same goes for Warner. Unless BD+ is hacked, then HD DVD will be the stomping ground for movie hackers.

You meant affect, right?

I am very surprised that BD+ hasn't been hacked yet, every hacker in the world will see it as a trophy on their mantel.

Elviser, if it is true that every disc has its own unique key, that is very ingenious for a sub standard format.:D

Does that matter? All that's needed is a copy of one disk.

I dont see why this would make a diffrence. Anyone who is going to rip this would almost certainly have to down-res it, and if your going to do that then whats the point? It would be easier just to rip the dvd wouldnt it?

If every disc would have a uniqe key, I would say there are even more reason why something would/could go wrong.

wasn't BD+ supposed to be hacked by now?

Can we post links to web sites that offer the Fox movies that have been hacked?
The FOX titles have indeed been compromised and are available.

Is it just me or are there alot of BD whack jobs on this forum? I take the purple pill, why not enjoy all the HDM out there?

to answer the OP's question: i seriously doubt it will affect the war in any significant way.

This is probably because there was much more motivation for hackers to crack Transformers while nobody really cares about Fox flops such as The Day After and Fantastic Four: Rise of Silver Surfer.

The quality of the movie does not matter, the challenge does. Being the first to crack a new copy protection scheme gets you a piece of immortality.

Can we post links to web sites that offer the Fox movies that have been hacked?
The FOX titles have indeed been compromised and are available.

Fantastic 4 2 Blu-ray has not been cracked. A quick check on *********.*** confirms this.

I dont see why this would make a diffrence. Anyone who is going to rip this would almost certainly have to down-res it, and if your going to do that then whats the point? It would be easier just to rip the dvd wouldnt it?

It would be easier but ripping from a high definition source will always provide a better copy in terms of PQ, be it from D Theater, BluRay or HDDVD. You will always retain more detail if you rip from an uncompressed source. That's the reason Fox is so scared of releasing the movies. It's not because they're afraid of losing a few thousand in BluRay sales but because a high quality BluRay rip will hurt sales of regular DVDs.

I believe BD+ has been partially cracked.

This is a screenshot from Robocop BD (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7510_robobd2.jpg), which I think has BD+. The ripper is able to see the movie when using a non-HDCP setup, but there are glitches. The next developments will be removing the source of the glitches, so it seems BD+ is half way cracked.

I believe BD+ has been partially cracked.

This is a screenshot from Robocop BD (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7510_robobd2.jpg), which I think has BD+. The ripper is able to see the movie when using a non-HDCP setup, but there are glitches. The next developments will be removing the source of the glitches, so it seems BD+ is half way cracked.

I guess that would mean goodbye Fox again!

quote=It would be easier but ripping from a high definition source will always provide a better copy in terms of PQ, be it from D Theater, BluRay or HDDVD. You will always retain more detail if you rip from an uncompressed source. That's the reason Fox is so scared of releasing the movies. It's not because they're afraid of losing a few thousand in BluRay sales but because a high quality BluRay rip will hurt sales of regular DVDs.
__________________
ok thats fine but a person who really cares about the PQ in my opionion isnt going to pirate the movie. So again, I still dont think this is a big deal.

I believe BD+ has been partially cracked.

This is a screenshot from Robocop BD (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7510_robobd2.jpg), which I think has BD+. The ripper is able to see the movie when using a non-HDCP setup, but there are glitches. The next developments will be removing the source of the glitches, so it seems BD+ is half way cracked.
Shhhh! This will upset all the Blu bloods!

By the way, I see people talking about Transformers being "cracked", but where are the screenshots? At least that way we all get to see how incredible it looks!

quote=It would be easier but ripping from a high definition source will always provide a better copy in terms of PQ, be it from D Theater, BluRay or HDDVD. You will always retain more detail if you rip from an uncompressed source. That's the reason Fox is so scared of releasing the movies. It's not because they're afraid of losing a few thousand in BluRay sales but because a high quality BluRay rip will hurt sales of regular DVDs.
__________________
ok thats fine but a person who really cares about the PQ in my opionion isnt going to pirate the movie. So again, I still dont think this is a big deal.

You'd be surprised. A lot of leechers have a nicer home theater setup than many of us.

quote=It would be easier but ripping from a high definition source will always provide a better copy in terms of PQ, be it from D Theater, BluRay or HDDVD. You will always retain more detail if you rip from an uncompressed source. That's the reason Fox is so scared of releasing the movies. It's not because they're afraid of losing a few thousand in BluRay sales but because a high quality BluRay rip will hurt sales of regular DVDs.


You know if there were no Fox movies on HD cable or satellite, that might make some sense. The entire Star Wars hexology in OAR and high-def are readily available on-line. I don't think that has really effected Fox's bottom line in DVD sales.

who in the right mind is going to invest the time to download a 30gig movie...for the quality of an average downloaded movie one can wait for the movie to be shown by the HD networks and save it to a HDD...or simply use the DVD.

well looks like the currently spreading hd dvd rip of transformers is 720p and fits on a single DVD-R

Interesting that the cracked movies sell more. ;)

I could have sworn that discussions of hacking are forbidden here at AVS.

I think if you explain how to hack something then it is against forum rules. OP is just reporting news.

Is it just me or are there alot of BD whack jobs on this forum? I take the purple pill, why not enjoy all the HDM out there?

Don't leave out the HD whack jobs. Let's just leave it at HDM whack jobs.

i don't get it, who downloads 30gb just to watch one freaking movie?

You'd be surprised. There are a lot of losers with tons of free time out there. :D

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

I'm afraid not. Most people will not bother with HD movies. The time it takes to download them is extremely prohibitive. And those who just want to watch the movie will just download the standard version (usually 700 megs or so) watch it, and delete it. So it's basically a non-issue.

BD+ will be cracked. There is no software encryption/protection scheme written that can't be cracked and I can say that with authority, but again it's really not an issue. The only thing holding them back is the cost of the drives. :P


I dont see why this would make a diffrence. Anyone who is going to rip this would almost certainly have to down-res it, and if your going to do that then whats the point? It would be easier just to rip the dvd wouldnt it?

Standard DVD's pose no challenge. Hackers only enter the picture if there is actually a need to crack an encryption/protection method.

Can we post links to web sites that offer the Fox movies that have been hacked?
The FOX titles have indeed been compromised and are available.

Absolutely not. In fact this thread could become downright dangerous if people start offering up proof of any kind. I would not go there if I were you.


Shhhh! This will upset all the Blu bloods!

By the way, I see people talking about Transformers being "cracked", but where are the screenshots? At least that way we all get to see how incredible it looks!

See what I wrote above.

Look folks, you can go to any torrent site and type in the movie of your choice to see if it's being seeded, just don't attempt to download it and you're not breaking any laws. However the newest of the new stuff often doesn't reach the torrent sites for sometimes weeks. It's very possible BD+ has been hacked and it's just not public knowledge yet. IMO, my guess to the reason why it isn't more widespread is because of the cost of the blu-ray drives over the HD DVD drives.

I'm afraid not. Most people will not bother with HD movies. The time it takes to download them is extremely prohibitive. And those who just want to watch the movie will just download the standard version (usually 700 megs or so) watch it, and delete it. So it's basically a non-issue.

BD+ will be cracked. There is no software encryption/protection scheme written that can't be cracked and I can say that with authority, but again it's really not an issue. The only thing holding them back is the cost of the drives. :P

Sure about that? Has Triple DES been cracked? What about AES? PGP?

Sure about that? Has Triple DES been cracked? What about AES? PGP?

Yes, Yes, and Yes. The issue is that it takes so long to crack, it's not worth the effort.

Our own government cracked PGP. :) One of the reasons why our government doesn't like to see any encryption technology over 128 bits exported is because of the time it takes them to decrypt it. It's a time issue, not a "can it be done" issue.

You'd be surprised. There are a lot of losers with tons of free time out there. :D

30gb? Start it at bedtime, watch it after work the next day. the only time it takes is to browse for the movie - quicker than driving to blockbuster and back.

Yes, Yes, and Yes. The issue is that it takes so long to crack, it's not worth the effort.

Our own government cracked PGP. :) One of the reasons why our government doesn't like to see any encryption technology over 128 bits exported is because of the time it takes them to decrypt it. It's a time issue, not a "can it be done" issue.

So in the real world, those encryption systems have not been cracked, which is the point I'm trying to make. It doesnt need to be uncrackable, just difficult enough that people don't think its worth the effort. Just like when directv released the P5 cards. Before P5 signal piracy was rampant. After the P5, its all but died out.

They had to "crack" the new AACS before they could do BD+, so it's only natural that AACS was cracked first. They have indicated that once BD+ has been cracked it will be permanently cracked, once and for all.

How will it effect the format war? It will make Universal consider switching, because their intellectual property could be protected. The same goes for Warner. Unless BD+ is hacked, then HD DVD will be the stomping ground for movie hackers.Yep, the dreams of a robust and lucrative China market for legitimate HD-DVD software products sinks into the quicksand of piracy. Same for much of the other Asian markets as well as Russia and East European markets.

Received reports on this thread

please do not post any links or details how to hack: that would violate AVS rules

Thanks

let take BD+ having unique key for every disc at face value.

The player must have the decryption pair side for ALL BD+ titles which means that once BD+ falls ALL BD+ encryption scheme fall. Unless BD comes with a CRL that is dynamic and live (IE Web based CRL). The possibility of BD+ being unique for each disc is minute. I should know as I deal with EFS certificate based encryption daily. 10,000 computer each with thier own certificate. ;) The possibility of keeping track of that many certs (Per Disc and if Transformers was any indication 100,000+ 1 week alone) the administration overhead is just staggering.

****Disclaimer, this is my view coming from my expertise in the IT field. This post does not reveal how BD+ actually works. I am just giving facts on other encryption systems based on certificates/Key pairs. This post is not to be construed as legal opinion.****

i don't get it, who downloads 30gb just to watch one freaking movie? the only reason why illegal movie downloads took off is because they were small and easy to download.I never understood why someone wuld take the chance of downloading an illegal movie when its so easy to rent and well you know. ANyway I dont think its a threat until recordable HD media is drastically lower in price. The number of people who will rip to hard drives just isnt significant.

Well being hacked and actually making people buy legal copies are 2 different things. I know a lot of people who hack quite often yet they bought HD DVD. Why? Simply because they can't hack special features, online stuff, extras and the overall experience of the title.

This is basically a good thing. There's no way to stop piracy, the only way you can make people actually buy a product is to offer more original and fun content that physicially can't be reproduced by copying.

Unfortunately for Blu-Ray, HD DVD is the one with this advantage. Once, BD+ is hacked, the only value that BD titles have (the movie itself) will make them completely obsolete leave potential customers completely uninterested to purchase the original.
Some fans might want a legitimate disc with all the special features, but at least as many people seem to be happy with just the movie. Millions of movies are downloaded on the internet, without special features. Pirates sell plenty of bootleg SD DVDs without any special features.

Regular DVD has been cracked and is much eaiser to distribute due to filesize. The market for DVD is 100 times bigger than HD DVD.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.

Regular DVD has been cracked and is much eaiser to distribute due to filesize. The market for DVD is 100 times bigger than HD DVD.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.

Basicly correct. The movies that get downloaded the most is actually the same that sells the most.

Movies aint worth buying for me, usually aint even worth downloading for others.

let take BD+ having unique key for every disc at face value.

The player must have the decryption pair side for ALL BD+ titles which means that once BD+ falls ALL BD+ encryption scheme fall. Unless BD comes with a CRL that is dynamic and live (IE Web based CRL). The possibility of BD+ being unique for each disc is minute. I should know as I deal with EFS certificate based encryption daily. 10,000 computer each with thier own certificate. ;) The possibility of keeping track of that many certs (Per Disc and if Transformers was any indication 100,000+ 1 week alone) the administration overhead is just staggering.

****Disclaimer, this is my view coming from my expertise in the IT field. This post does not reveal how BD+ actually works. I am just giving facts on other encryption systems based on certificates/Key pairs. This post is not to be construed as legal opinion.****Dude, I don't think that in-the-know security folks are going to come here and point out all your inaccuracies and misunderstandings of BD+. They'll certainly see posts such as this and be quietly amused (and somewhat self-satisfied certainly).

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours.

Can you provide links or tell us how you know that TF was cracked "hours ago" and that all Kubricks will "hit the net in hours"?

Can you provide links or tell us how you know that TF was cracked "hours ago" and that all Kubricks will "hit the net in hours"?

Yeah, links please.

OP

please provide some proof or links to support your claim

The company that does the cracking report about it on their forum.

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

Umm weren't we told time and time again that FF-ROSS DIDN'T have BD+? and that BD-J was the reason that it didn't play?

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7712_tran1.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7712_tran1.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7713_tran2.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7713_tran2.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7714_tran3.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7714_tran3.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7715_tran4.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7715_tran4.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7716_tran5.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7716_tran5.png)

It's rippable thanks to the new AnyDVD beta, which you can clearly see posted and discussed on their forums (with the note "added support for MKB v4 titles like Transformers"). The full disc (both discs, actually) are on the Internets at the moment.

Umm weren't we told time and time again that FF-ROSS DIDN'T have BD+? and that BD-J was the reason that it didn't play?

FF2 does have BD+.

FF2 does have BD+.

So is THAT why it wouldn't play? The BD folks sure were adamant that it wasn't (by stating that it didn't have BD+ at all)

Now this is original. "HD-DVD is too wonderful to hack." It's apparently sacred and holy. I didn't see that in the talking points.

Do you ever post in the BD forums?

Thanks house for posting the pics. I am not some fanatical person, i dont lie to get my point across and i am saddened i was asked for proof by a mod. But whatever, proof is here in this thread.

It's funny this thread has brought the fact Spiderman 3 has been ripped and is all over the place to my attention. I feel sorry for the person that downloads that almost 40GB file and then is further tortured when they realize the movie is garbage.

PS There's been a DVD rip of Spiderman 3 out there for like 6 months and FF2 has been floating out the for at least 3 months.

Why are you guys acting like AACS=HD-DVD and BD+=Blu-ray. Blu-Ray requires AACS at minimum. HD-DVD doesn't care. Isn't this why Microsoft "allegedly" went with HD-DVD? (Okay, I know they did it because they were pissed that VC-1 wasn't part of the Blu recommendations.) BD+ = for now a few Fox titles thanks to Fox and Panasonic.

BD+ will take time. However, it will take a lot more time if they keep it off the computer. (cuts back on reverse engineering, decompiling, etc.)

Thanks house for posting the pics. I am not some fanatical person, i dont lie to get my point across and i am saddened i was asked for proof by a mod. But whatever, proof is here in this thread.

Jack, no need to be offended. It wasn't anything personal.

Any claim that isn't general knowledge of forum members needs to be backed up by links or information. Or haven't you seen all the BS claims that pop up around here?

When one of them is cracked? Or all of them? Each disc has its own protection scheme, so they will have to be cracked one by one. After which one would you like me to respond to?


It only takes one cracked one to put somewhere on the internet, right?

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7712_tran1.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7712_tran1.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7713_tran2.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7713_tran2.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7714_tran3.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7714_tran3.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7715_tran4.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7715_tran4.png)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/t7716_tran5.png (http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i7716_tran5.png)

It's rippable thanks to the new AnyDVD beta, which you can clearly see posted and discussed on their forums (with the note "added support for MKB v4 titles like Transformers"). The full disc (both discs, actually) are on the Internets at the moment.



FF2 does have BD+.

How do these images prove that Transformers is cracked? Can you post a link to a section of the movie (which is not the trailer for us to evaluate your claims), say a 30 sec segment.

Is this the new BD PR strategy? Sell consumers on the importance of BD+ :eek:

Thanks house for posting the pics. I am not some fanatical person, i dont lie to get my point across and i am saddened i was asked for proof by a mod. But whatever, proof is here in this thread.


Must have missed it. Where is the proof on this thread? FWIW, those screenshots do not prove AACS is cracked and they are so small that I can't even tell they are indeed 1080p!!!

OP

please provide some proof or links to support your claim

He can't because he is making it up. This thread = garbage.

hmm... transformers hddvd cracked? since most hddvd owners already bought the disc (190,000 and counting), who would then be the most likely to download the movie off the net? The ones that couldn't get the title on their format? hmm...

Well, They probably downrez it. Plus people can also rent the movie via netflix or BB total access. $20 is less than the cost of one HDDVD

It really sucks that people put so much work into these movies, just to have it ripped and distributed all over the internet in a week or day.

what's the point of downrezing then? why not just rip the DVD...you see what i'm saying? unless the downsized version is going to be above DVD resolution, in which case, it goes back to the file size problem.

let take BD+ having unique key for every disc at face value.Let's not. No need to. They don't. :)

We're dealing with Devices Keys and Private Keys on BD+ Devices and KIC Public Keys on BD+ Media. Mating Public/Private is done to verify the authenticity of Content Code. Transform Code relies on SP values, of which a maxmimum of five (or portions thereof) can be in memory at any given time; a BD+ Devices can work on only one SP value at any given time. Once playback stops the BD+ VM wipes all traces of SP values from the BD+ Device.

The Transform Code on copy 1 of a BD+ encoded movie is the same as the Transform Code on copy 2 of said movie.

Must have missed it. Where is the proof on this thread? FWIW, those screenshots do not prove AACS is cracked and they are so small that I can't even tell they are indeed 1080p!!!

Click on them, that might help ;) I'm sure if you compare the pictures I've just posted to the trailer (which should still be on quicktime.com), you'll find those aren't in there. Those are from my copy of the disc, thanks to the latest beta of AnyDVD. if you want specific shots of specific timestamps, just say.

Can you post a link to a section of the movie (which is not the trailer for us to evaluate your claims), say a 30 sec segment.


No, I can't (first, it would be a huge hassle since I'd have to rip the whole disc just to split it at a certain section, then wait to upload it [which would be large even for 30 seconds] - even then I'm sure the link would be removed since it's technically copyright infringement [or even if you argued "fair use" they'd be lots of people in this thread saying otherwise and how we're all dirty pirates, etc]). Again, compare them to the trailer.

Although if you look at the HD-DVD forum, Xylon is posting his own shots versus the DVD. Is he making it up too? Are Slysoft lying? Are the members of their forum who have said they can now watch/rip the disc also telling fibs?

Regular DVD has been cracked and is much eaiser to distribute due to filesize. The market for DVD is 100 times bigger than HD DVD.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.


I think this sums it up well. Just about any DVD movie you would want can be downloaded. Yet DVD sales are as strong as ever. Part of this (I think) is that the average cost for a DVD is so well priced now. When you can get a DVD for under $10 why bother to spend 30-50 cents or so for the "blank" DVD (plus the time to download the movie and then burn it with Nero?

Just buy the darned thing and have a better PQ/AQ experience than the download plus the features (if you care about them).

When HDM has more consumer friendly pricing I think their sales will really take off and they should (eventually) have DVD levels of sales one day (HD ready sets are really coming into their own now).

No encryption scheme will stay uncracked forever. BD+ will be circumvented some day. I guess Blu-Ray can always update BD+; but what a headache that would be for every Blu-Ray owner to have to update the firmware on their players. If this is the future (having to update firmware for BD+ changes/revisions) I think this is NOT in Blu-Ray's best interest as the mainstream owner will not accept this. They are used to just putting any DVD into their DVD player and having it work.

This applies to both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Firmware updates need to go away at some point for mass acceptance. I can do these sorts of things but people like my parents, brother, and many of my friends will not or will simply return the player because "it doesn't work".

If BD+ "evolves" to keep ahead of the hackers and firmware updates are required for future titles (this is all supposition on my part) then it will really tick off the average consumer.

For me the less DRM the better because I will not tolerate 2 minute boot up times to watch a movie due to all the DRM on the discs. I doubt the average consumer will either.

If no real proof can be posted here, then this thread should be closed.

Down with DRM!

If no real proof can be posted here, then this thread should be closed.

Define "real proof"?

I could give you proof right now if we were allowed to post a link.

So, my point is exactly that! Xylon can post any image from either BD or HD DVD and these don't require breaking AACS! That is why I am saying screen shots don't prove a disk is ripped! You said it yourself :)

From what you are saying, that putting the proof, even 30 secs would be too hard for you. So what does that prove? :)

Xylon can post any image from either BD or HD DVD and these don't require breaking AACS!

Yes, it does. He even says himself that he rips the full disc to hard drive before he does any comparisons (not that you'd need to, because you could do it on the fly if you really wanted, as long as AACS is removed and the disc is being decrypted).

So far there has been ZERO proof on this thread. In fact I am calling this as BS, until I see some semblance of proof.

We have seen sreen captures of both formats for 18 months now!

please all:

moderate your posts so the mods don't have to

Thanks

Received reports on this thread

please do not post any links or details how to hack: that would violate AVS rules

Thanks

OP

please provide some proof or links to support your claim

Do you want him to follow AVS rules or to post evidence? He cannot do both at the same time.

what's the point of downrezing then? why not just rip the DVD...you see what i'm saying? unless the downsized version is going to be above DVD resolution, in which case, it goes back to the file size problem.

I believe that the xbox 360 HD VODs are only 2-4GB.

I suppose the best evidence would be a link to a gadget blog, or other news service who had reported on this development. If none of them have picked up on the news, then I think there should be reasonable doubt cast upon the claims made here.

Just my opinion.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.

Someone with common sense!

Do you want him to follow AVS rules or to post evidence? He cannot do both at the same time.

follow AVS rules at all times please

I received several PM's that indicated to me this thread should stay open:

please continue the discussion within AVS guidelines

You can get all the proof you want by going to Slysofts website. Since I can't post a link to it, google slysoft, go to their forums, click on anydvdhd and voila. It's all there.

Or how about a screen shot of a newsgroup search engine?

hmm... transformers hddvd cracked? since most hddvd owners already bought the disc (190,000 and counting), who would then be the most likely to download the movie off the net? The ones that couldn't get the title on their format? hmm...
190K was Paramount PR annoucement.
The actual was close to 110-115K.

Regular DVD has been cracked and is much eaiser to distribute due to filesize. The market for DVD is 100 times bigger than HD DVD.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.

What's the alternative if studios stop selling DVD due to piracy? None.

What's the alternative if studios stop selling hd dvd due to piracy? Blu-ray.

What's the alternative if studios stop selling DVD due to piracy? None.

What's the alternative if studios stop selling hd dvd due to piracy? Blu-ray.

That sounds simple and all, but I don't think it will matter. Even if HD DVD is cracked, it's not like there's a format it can be given to the masses in with the hi-def resolution still intact. Who are the pirates going to sell to? Even if they give it away, how many HD DVD sales are really being lost there? Is it enough money to even worry about?

That sounds simple and all, but I don't think it will matter. Even if HD DVD is cracked, it's not like there's a format it can be given to the masses in with the hi-def resolution still intact. Who are the pirates going to sell to? Even if they give it away, how many HD DVD sales are really being lost there? Is it enough money to even worry about?

I cannot say exactly how much is being lost. But the threat of Hi Def piracy is real enough that Fox (and probably Disney) back BD exclusively due to stronger copy protection.

That sounds simple and all, but I don't think it will matter. Even if HD DVD is cracked, it's not like there's a format it can be given to the masses in with the hi-def resolution still intact. Who are the pirates going to sell to? Even if they give it away, how many HD DVD sales are really being lost there? Is it enough money to even worry about?
I guess an indicator might be to see how well Transformers on HD DVD continue to sell in the upcoming weeks. If people who do no own the disc find out they can get it for free, why would they bother to buy it if they are already accustomed to free media(cracked/hacked) off the internet.

So far there has been ZERO proof on this thread. In fact I am calling this as BS, until I see some semblance of proof.

We have seen sreen captures of both formats for 18 months now!

Proof that Transformers has been hacked? see screenshots below...

http://nwgat.net/woot/files/21/junk/1.png
http://nwgat.net/woot/files/21/junk/2.png
http://nwgat.net/woot/files/21/junk/3.png
http://nwgat.net/woot/files/21/junk/4.png

I guess an indicator might be to see how well Transformers on HD DVD continue to sell in the upcoming weeks. If people who do no own the disc find out they can get it for free, why would they bother to buy it if they are already accustomed to free media(cracked/hacked) off the internet.
Even though I can download a DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray disc I don't bother, and with the sizes of HD DVD and BD it would be a pain anyway, especially if your ISP limits bandwidth usage pre month. It's much better to buy or rent. I like to collect and have the actual disc and cover art so I buy.

The main effect is it solidifies FOX's position as Blu-ray only. FOX in particular is nuts about copyright, and this validates their choice. Of course, FOX isn't releasing much anyway and has never looked like switching, so its a moot effect.

Downloading of DVD is a bigger threat for studios.

Quicker
Fits on DVD+-R
Plays on every DVD player out there

Why are you guys acting like AACS=HD-DVD and BD+=Blu-ray. Blu-Ray requires AACS at minimum. HD-DVD doesn't care. Isn't this why Microsoft "allegedly" went with HD-DVD? (Okay, I know they did it because they were pissed that VC-1 wasn't part of the Blu recommendations.) BD+ = for now a few Fox titles thanks to Fox and Panasonic.

BD+ will take time. However, it will take a lot more time if they keep it off the computer. (cuts back on reverse engineering, decompiling, etc.)
Microsoft dicided to back HD DVD exclusively when the BDA voted to not adopt HDi and decided to implement additional DRM with BD+, which effectively kills Managed Copy.

Even though I can download a DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray disc I don't bother, and with the sizes of HD DVD and BD it would be a pain anyway, especially if your ISP limits bandwidth usage pre month. It's much better to buy or rent. I like to collect and have the actual disc and cover art so I buy.

+1.

In other news:

The latest AACS protection scheme, mkb V.4, has been "partially", not completely cracked.

OP of this thread is telling the truth, US version of "Transformers" can now be played on the non-HDCP compliant hardware and backed to the HDD.

Will this fact affect the outcome of the format war?

Highly doubt it.

Now, my prediction:

BD+ will be cracked all right, in a matter of months, if not weeks.

I dont see why this would make a diffrence. Anyone who is going to rip this would almost certainly have to down-res it, and if your going to do that then whats the point? It would be easier just to rip the dvd wouldnt it?Why down-res it, when you can just split the raw stream into 6 DVD-Rs (2$ worth) or something? Then they sell them in China.

Downloading of DVD is a bigger threat for studios.

Quicker
Fits on DVD+-R
Plays on every DVD player out there

For now it is, but the studios do not want to mortgage their future, since in a few year downloading and burning HD content will be as easy as a DVD is now if the content is not protected. This does not close all the way HD content is available but the studios think this is a big advantage.

I remember a few years ago many said the DVD content was too big, expensive and difficult to copy and burn.

For now it is, but the studios do not want to mortgage their future, since in a few year downloading and burning HD content will be as easy as a DVD is now if the content is not protected. This does not close all the way HD content is available but the studios think this is a big advantage.

I remember a few years ago many said the DVD content was too big, expensive and difficult to copy and burn.

Have you ever tried give away a burned DVD+R as a christmas gift? There is a market for downloading, there is also a big legal market.

The studios actually makes good money on DVD despite that people do copy. Because we have a large portion of people that actually thinks its right to pay for stuff.

So, my point is exactly that! Xylon can post any image from either BD or HD DVD and these don't require breaking AACS! That is why I am saying screen shots don't prove a disk is ripped! You said it yourself :)

From what you are saying, that putting the proof, even 30 secs would be too hard for you. So what does that prove? :)

So far there has been ZERO proof on this thread. In fact I am calling this as BS, until I see some semblance of proof.

We have seen sreen captures of both formats for 18 months now!Wow what makes you behave like that?

Probably someone can post a PC screen that shows AnyDVD backing up his own Transformers.

BD+ will be cracked all right, in a matter of months, if not weeks.Do you mean one of VMs in BD+, or the BD+ scheme itself?

Even though I can download a DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray disc I don't bother, and with the sizes of HD DVD and BD it would be a pain anyway, especially if your ISP limits bandwidth usage pre month. It's much better to buy or rent. I like to collect and have the actual disc and cover art so I buy.

I agree whole hearted with you. I have no desire for downloaded copies of anything. I've never even downloaded music. MP3s sound like butt for listening to at home. I also like collecting the media.

But, if it's painful to get things that size through your internet connection, you may want to look at getting a faster service. That shouldn't be your limiting factor. :D

Thanks house for posting the pics. I am not some fanatical person, i dont lie to get my point across and i am saddened i was asked for proof by a mod. But whatever, proof is here in this thread.

Nobody believes anyone here without a link, especially somebody with a bias in the format war.

I cannot say exactly how much is being lost. But the threat of Hi Def piracy is real enough that Fox (and probably Disney) back BD exclusively due to stronger copy protection.

If Fox is so paranoid about piracy maybe they should stop releasing their titles altogether!

Because we have a large portion of people that actually thinks its right to pay for stuff.

I, personally, don't know anyone who buys movies because it's morally right. They buy them because they can't download or want the original art work/packaging.

I, personally, don't know anyone who buys movies because it's morally right. They buy them because they can't download or want the original art work/packaging.

Nice package and fair price sure help people to be moral ;)

I, personally, don't know anyone who buys movies because it's morally right. They buy them because they can't download or want the original art work/packaging.
You must hang out with plenty of immoral (or amoral, more likely), people.

I don't care what people say, stealing a movie is really no different than walking into Wal-Mart and stealing a candy bar, then rationalizing by saying "hey, they can afford it".

If Fox is so paranoid about piracy maybe they should stop releasing their titles altogether!

Don't take it personal, but that's a pretty retarded comment.

If Fox is so paranoid about piracy maybe they should stop releasing their titles altogether!
+1

Because no matter what they try to do to protect their media, it will still end up cracked and pirated in the end.

All their copy protection does is keep the legitimate owners from making back-up copies legally per fair use laws.

It might be nice for the people who slagged of the OP to eat some humble pie but on these forums humble pie is rearly eaten no matter what.

snip..........

Do you mean one of VMs in BD+, or the BD+ scheme itself?

All you need to do is crack one manufacturers BD+ VM, a PC software player would likely be the easiest. As long as someone releases proof (a full BD+ title that's been copied) but doesn't reveal the player/technique, how do you stop them? Where's the hole?

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

BluRay exclusive Nelson says Ha Ha:D

I, personally, don't know anyone who buys movies because it's morally right. They buy them because they can't download or want the original art work/packaging.

You don't know anyone who knows the difference between right and wrong? So your friends regularly shoplift, because the stolen food tastes just as good as that which is legally bought (and the packaging is thrown away anyway)? Me thinks you need to find new friends...

Ok, Transformers HD DVD was cracked a few hours ago, with the new AACS keys found and HD DVD is now wide open and ripe for piracy. Expect all the kubricks and more to hit the net in hours. BD+ Movies from fox are still safe, unripable AND have been deemed one of the toughest protections yet so far from AnyDVD. Each disc has its own different protection and movies like The Day After Tomorrow, Mr Brooks, Fantastic Four 2, etc are all safe from pirates hands just like Fox wanted. How will this affect the war if content stays safe on Blu Ray and HD DVD keeps being pirated with no end in site?

Hate to be the barrier of bad news but i have Fantastic Four 2 for Bd backed up and running on another burnt BD disk,

Wow what makes you behave like that?

Probably someone can post a PC screen that shows AnyDVD backing up his own Transformers.

Do you mean one of VMs in BD+, or the BD+ scheme itself?

I will try to do this as we speak i will be using anydvd and a few other ripping
softwares i have,

wasn't BD+ supposed to be hacked by now?

Heck, I didn't think even the legitimate software players were fully supporting it yet. ;)

- Tom

KL. That is what I am looking for someone to show me a small segement they have backed up so that I can play it and verify....is that hard?

Hate to be the barrier of bad news but i have Fantastic Four 2 for Bd backed up and running on another burnt BD disk,


"The barrier of bad news" would be the exact opposite of "the bearer of bad news." :)

KL. That is what I am looking for someone to show me a small segement they have backed up so that I can play it and verify....is that hard?

If you know the various places to get torrents of such things, it's pretty easy to verify.

If Fox is so paranoid about piracy maybe they should stop releasing their titles altogether!
Uhm, maybe you missed it, but there was a six month or more dry spell where Fox did JUST THAT for high-def movie releases.

You notice they came back right as BD+ was ready for wide use.

Don't you mean readyish? :)

"The barrier of bad news" would be the exact opposite of "the bearer of bad news." :)


Thanks lol

Don't you mean readyish? :)
My bad. :P

Oh my - Deja Vu all over again, eh? :rolleyes:

Isn't it "funny", how just 7 days before the apparent expiration of Warner's Bluray contract on the 31st of October, that ALL of a SuDDEN, the AACS keys for HD DVD are "leaked" AGAIN into the wild.

My my my - what a co-inkidinks!

As most of you know, AACS has now assigned different keys to HD DVD and Bluray, so the leak of a key will now affect only ONE format.

Yet, if the key for HD DVD was truly "cracked" there is nothing to stop the Bluray AACS key from being cracked either - but YET, that hasn't happened. This has NOTHING to do with BD+, by the way, we are strictly talking about AACS here.

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a BD operative inside the AACS :eek:

KL. That is what I am looking for someone to show me a small segement they have backed up so that I can play it and verify....is that hard?

Considering you are asking someone to violate the rules of this website, as well as federal law, yes, I think it is too much to ask. People have provided pictures of torrent sites with the ripped HD DVD on them. If you are so curious, go check out those sites yourself, DL the software in question and see for yourself.

Oh, and for those saying fair use, that is an affirmative defense. You need to prove your use is fair use. I think the argument that someone on the Internet wanted you to rip it to prove it can be done would not fly.

I think you're reaching a bit there, rdjam. Two BDs were said to be working before Transformers (Edward Scissorhands and Robocop - both of which I believe did have MKB v3, but were being fussy anyway with aacskeys and AnyDVD). When the Transformers beta update was released, it also added support for some new MKB v4 BDs, like Hostel 2, Meet the Robinsons, and a few others. Rumour has it that another beta will follow that will add yet more support for new BD titles. I think trying to ham up that only HD-DVD is being targeted is a bit far fetched (you mention how both format use different keys - well they always did, you need to be more specific about which keys you're talking about exactly - there are many different types [also technically speaking no keys were leaked at all, just an update to a program that let's you decrypt the discs - no keys have been discussed or leaked on forums at all]).

DIVX != BD

DIVX discs destroyed themselves after a set period of time. Blu ray discs do nothing like that. who do you think you're fooling?

Divx discs didn't destroy themselves, where did you get that from?

i don't get it, who downloads 30gb just to watch one freaking movie? the only reason why illegal movie downloads took off is because they were small and easy to download.

That's mostly true, but in this case as a PS3 owner I'm sorely tempted (stress tempted) to just download the HD version of Transformers. This is one title that is likely to be downloaded out of spite for Paramount dumping Blu-Ray.

Whats it come to when HD-DVD supporters have to argue in favour of heavily compressed video, lack of hi-res audio, and now piracy in a desperate bid to 'big up' their format of choice.

Regular DVD has been cracked and is much eaiser to distribute due to filesize. The market for DVD is 100 times bigger than HD DVD.

How many studios have stopped making DVDs? Zero. That's the effect this will have on the format war... zero.

Bingo.

"Another nail in the coffin for HD-.... oh f*ck this happy horseshit."

Actually, Transformers HD DVD and a few other HD DVDs and Blu-Ray movies have had their MKB v4 keys obtained, but MKB V4 itself has not been completely "cracked." The guys at Slysoft are working at it as well as on BD+. Of course, other people in groups or on their own are also working on bypassing BD+, but I don't think it'll happen until there are more leaks of the BD+ white papers. So, saying all movies on HD DVD are now available on the internet is false. However, I feel they will be soon enough, as well as all the Blu-Ray movies. Its just a matter of time.

Hate to be the barrier of bad news but i have Fantastic Four 2 for Bd backed up and running on another burnt BD disk,

First, learn how to write properly.

Second, no you don't. It has not been cracked. Thanks for the laugh, however.

And for people like Plazman and others who keep asking for proof, although people are posting screencaps (which CANNOT be taken without the AACS protection being removed), saying they have the rip, xylon saying he has it backed up on his hard drive, etc etc. Well, i am sorry you do not have the ability to use common sense and reasoning. I look forward to more people asking for "proof" when this thread is littered with it.

Whats it come to when HD-DVD supporters have to argue in favour of ... piracy in a desperate bid to 'big up' their format of choice.

I'm sorely tempted (stress tempted) to just download the HD version of Transformers. This is one title that is likely to be downloaded out of spite for Paramount dumping Blu-Ray.

hmm...

hmm...

Priceless ;)

Oh my - Deja Vu all over again, eh? :rolleyes:

Isn't it "funny", how just 7 days before the apparent expiration of Warner's Bluray contract on the 31st of October, that ALL of a SuDDEN, the AACS keys for HD DVD are "leaked" AGAIN into the wild.

My my my - what a co-inkidinks!

As most of you know, AACS has now assigned different keys to HD DVD and Bluray, so the leak of a key will now affect only ONE format.

Yet, if the key for HD DVD was truly "cracked" there is nothing to stop the Bluray AACS key from being cracked either - but YET, that hasn't happened. This has NOTHING to do with BD+, by the way, we are strictly talking about AACS here.

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a BD operative inside the AACS :eek:

Hate to tell ya, but if you check the Slysoft forum you will see that various non-BD+ Blu-ray disks with the new keys are also been ripped. It's just that Transformers was the one that everyone wanted most.

Your paranoia is funny sometimes since the events you speak of were proven to be wrong on so many levels.

All you need to do is crack one manufacturers BD+ VM, a PC software player would likely be the easiest. As long as someone releases proof (a full BD+ title that's been copied) but doesn't reveal the player/technique, how do you stop them? Where's the hole??? I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you understand what BD+ is?

?? I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you understand what BD+ is?

Ok, you can tell me if I misunderstand BD+.

BD+ consists of the BD+ code on the disc as well as a BD+ VM (interpreter) on the player.

Agree or disagree?

Funnily enough, two variants of Transformers have been released into the wild. The full 28ish HD-DVD rip along with a 26GB BD rip. I assume the BD rip has had the interactive features and menus stripped from it. So they make available a version of the movie for BD only fans with burners... too bad it exceeds SL BD by a smidgen. They'll be paying more for the DL BD-R than the legit HD-DVD itself (but not as much as the movie and player I guess)... though the demand is probably going to be low due to:
* 26GB download size :(
* Exceeding SL BD
* Most not having a burner in the first place
* A few BD fans not wanting anything to do with DD+
* A few BD players unable to play BD-R? (I can't recall specifics here).

To all those blu-boys who think BD+ is untouchable, let's give the hackers enough time to come up with a proper VM that acts like a regular player and rips the title.

How long did it take these corporations with huge amounts of R&D to come up with BD+ ? Why would you expect hackers being able to circumvent or crack it in less than 2 or 3 weeks ? In time, you'll be eating your words too, I guarantee it.

To all those blu-boys who think BD+ is untouchable, let's give the hackers enough time to come up with a proper VM that acts like a regular player and rips the title.

How long did it take these corporations with huge amounts of R&D to come up with BD+ ? Why would you expect hackers being able to circumvent or crack it in less than 2 or 3 weeks ? In time, you'll be eating your words too, I guarantee it.

Did I miss this post where someone claimed BD+ was unbreakable? Please point it out to me.

Why would anyone download such a ginormous file? Especially in the USA where some lady was recently ripped apart for downloading songs?

The risk is huge that you'll be traced. As for asian markets, piracy is just part of the game over there. Sell one, pirate 1,000,000

Why would anyone download such a ginormous file? Especially in the USA where some lady was recently ripped apart for downloading songs?

The risk is huge that you'll be traced. As for asian markets, piracy is just part of the game over there. Sell one, pirate 1,000,000
Downloading files that big a few times and you end up exceeding your ISP's monthly bandwidth limitation, which means anything in excess is going to cost you $$$. It's better, easier and may in fact be cheaper to just go out and buy it! :)

Most of the ripped BD & HD DVD files I've seen on the Internet have been re-encoded to X264 at 720p to fit on a DVD5 (probably with insufficient bit rate) or DVD9. So it doesn't seem download time would be insurmountable for most broadband users.

- Tom

Most of the ripped BD & HD DVD files I've seen on the Internet have been re-encoded to X264 at 720p to fit on a DVD5 (probably with insufficient bit rate) or DVD9. So it doesn't seem download time would be insurmountable for most broadband users.

- Tom
And these can only be played on a PC.

Most of the ripped BD & HD DVD files I've seen on the Internet have been re-encoded to X264 at 720p to fit on a DVD5 (probably with insufficient bit rate) or DVD9. So it doesn't seem download time would be insurmountable for most broadband users.

- Tom

Then you are not looking in the right places Tom. ;)

Funnily enough, two variants of Transformers have been released into the wild. The full 28ish HD-DVD rip along with a 26GB BD rip. I assume the BD rip has had the interactive features and menus stripped from it. So they make available a version of the movie for BD only fans with burners... too bad it exceeds SL BD by a smidgen. They'll be paying more for the DL BD-R than the legit HD-DVD itself (but not as much as the movie and player I guess)... though the demand is probably going to be low due to:
* 26GB download size :(
* Exceeding SL BD
* Most not having a burner in the first place
* A few BD fans not wanting anything to do with DD+
* A few BD players unable to play BD-R? (I can't recall specifics here).

Since when has logic ever dictated the actions and opinions of BD Fanatics?:rolleyes:

I don't care what people say, stealing a movie is really no different than walking into Wal-Mart and stealing a candy bar, then rationalizing by saying "hey, they can afford it".

Equivalence between realty and intellectual property is absurd. If one could go into wallmart and make a subatomic perfect copy of an apple and walk out with it, that's not theft. Copying isn't deprivation of property, it's liberation of knowledge. You may have another opinion, I accept that, but you can't make a cogent argument for it. You can only raise it to the level of truism and therefore not require an argument to back it up.

Furthermore, considering how much (legal) theft corporations like wallmart do from the third world (child labour etc) I think it's quite comical people who think they're moral care about IP.

First, learn how to write properly.

Second, no you don't. It has not been cracked. Thanks for the laugh, however.

And for people like Plazman and others who keep asking for proof, although people are posting screencaps (which CANNOT be taken without the AACS protection being removed), saying they have the rip, xylon saying he has it backed up on his hard drive, etc etc. Well, i am sorry you do not have the ability to use common sense and reasoning. I look forward to more people asking for "proof" when this thread is littered with it.

A thread about Walmart having $198 HD DVD for sale has just been closed for no reason IMO, but a thread like this one remains open even after such negative and personal approach by this member. and still open??? go figure!
:confused:

Equivalence between realty and intellectual property is absurd. If one could go into wallmart and make a subatomic perfect copy of an apple and walk out with it, that's not theft. Copying isn't deprivation of property, it's liberation of knowledge. You may have another opinion, I accept that, but you can't make a cogent argument for it. You can only raise it to the level of truism and therefore not require an argument to back it up.

You have got to be kidding me...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Ladies and gentlemen: May I present to you a text book example of someone trying to intellectualize theft, based on the moral relativistic crap so prevelent in the minds of first year philosophy majors." I hate to break it to you, but theft is theft. If you or your friends can't comprehend that, then you are the very reason for the existance of DRM. Honor among thieves, indeed.

Copyright violation is not theft, either legally or morally. Legally it is copyright violation. For instance in most cases these days it is a copyright violation for me to walk down the street whistling some copyrighted song. The Justice Dept even has published guidelines for when copyright violation is something they will bother treating as a criminal offense at all. Anything less must be settled in court by private parties as a civil case.

In my own mind copyright violation should only consider acts of mass unauthorized distribution. Anything less should be considered far less criminal, damaging, or offensive then, say, installing malware on someone elses computer. I'm sure some feel differently.

- Tom

When one of them is cracked? Or all of them? Each disc has its own protection scheme, so they will have to be cracked one by one. After which one would you like me to respond to?

You don't have to crack them one by one. The BD+ JVM will decode ALL BD+ discs. The code needed to decode all BD+ discs is already included in every standalone player. Hackers only need to discover that master code to unlock all BD discs.

So there is one code that will decode all BD+ discs, making it unnecessary to crack disc by disc. not to mention that when one disc is hacked, BD+ will be stripped from it and a BD+ free copy will be distributed over the net. So BD+ would only hurt people who own the disc and want fair use copies. A single hacked BD+ disc would be all illegal downloaders need.

studios arent worrying about people downloading theres movies on the internet as much as their worrying about global counterfeiting rings severly tapping into their market share. most people dont know where to get these releases from, even "tech savvy" people.

i'm guessing a lot of you guys live in the subarbs and never really venture out into the city that much. ive lived in nyc and cincinnati and i can go on a street corner and buy the latest dvd release before it comes out for 5-10 bucks (w/ the same quality as the retail version). even more worse in asian countries.

that's what bd+ and aacs was supposed to stop. large global countefeiting rings, not little johnny dl'ing a movie to play on his pc.

studios arent worrying about people downloading theres movies on the internet as much as their worrying about global counterfeiting rings severly tapping into their market share. most people dont know where to get these releases from, even "tech savvy" people.

i'm guessing a lot of you guys live in the subarbs and never really venture out into the city that much. ive lived in nyc and cincinnati and i can go on a street corner and buy the latest dvd release before it comes out for 5-10 bucks (w/ the same quality as the retail version). even more worse in asian countries.

that's what bd+ and aacs was supposed to stop. large global countefeiting rings, not little johnny dl'ing a movie to play on his pc.you're exactly right bdizzle.

Equivalence between realty and intellectual property is absurd. If one could go into wallmart and make a subatomic perfect copy of an apple and walk out with it, that's not theft. Copying isn't deprivation of property, it's liberation of knowledge. You may have another opinion, I accept that, but you can't make a cogent argument for it. You can only raise it to the level of truism and therefore not require an argument to back it up.

Furthermore, considering how much (legal) theft corporations like wallmart do from the third world (child labour etc) I think it's quite comical people who think they're moral care about IP.Nice try at rationalization. Try telling that to the orchard owner who would have less sales if that were possible. And try to tell that to recording artists are routinely ripped off. And writers, and movie directors, and anyone else who produces something of value using their labor and capital. And, if it were possible, why wouldn't you simply plant an apple tree, harvest your apples and copy away to your heart's content? I guess to do that you'd have to invest some of your own capital (land, etc) and labor.

But let me guess -- you've never produced anything either physical or intellectual that anybody would want to bother stealing?

But let me guess -- you've never produced anything either physical or intellectual that anybody would want to bother stealing?

Low blow. And I have personally participated in (and led) teams that have created software selling for many billions of dollars. And I designed copy protection software for them too.

But during that time I was still cognizant of the concept of reasonable user burden and got to watch as people marched in the streets in front of Lotus headquarters when Lotus crossed that line. And laughed when the US Navy pitched out the leading Lotus 1-2-3 spread sheet software in favor of another because of the limitations created by copy protection.

And I still never lost track of the distinction between copyright violation and theft or tried to criminalize trivial violation of shrink wrap agreements or attempts by users to fix things in the name of computer interoperability.

Basically, if you annoy people too much with copy protection limitations and hyped speeches they will abandon both you, your product, and your spun philosophy in the market.

- Tom

Nice try at rationalization. Try telling that to the orchard owner who would have less sales if that were possible. And try to tell that to recording artists are routinely ripped off. And writers, and movie directors, and anyone else who produces something of value using their labor and capital. And, if it were possible, why wouldn't you simply plant an apple tree, harvest your apples and copy away to your heart's content? I guess to do that you'd have to invest some of your own capital (land, etc) and labor.

But let me guess -- you've never produced anything either physical or intellectual that anybody would want to bother stealing?

As a content creator I agree whole heartedly with the concept of the content creator being able to decide how the content should be released for public consumption.
Even though I release most of my content under a creative commons lic. I certainly do not see why people have an issue with strong copy protection. There is no incentive left for content creation if you cannot guarantee a revenue stream if thats how you are using the content.

studios arent worrying about people downloading theres movies on the internet as much as their worrying about global counterfeiting rings severly tapping into their market share. most people dont know where to get these releases from, even "tech savvy" people.

i'm guessing a lot of you guys live in the subarbs and never really venture out into the city that much. ive lived in nyc and cincinnati and i can go on a street corner and buy the latest dvd release before it comes out for 5-10 bucks (w/ the same quality as the retail version). even more worse in asian countries.

that's what bd+ and aacs was supposed to stop. large global countefeiting rings, not little johnny dl'ing a movie to play on his pc.

In reality, all of these solutions do not and will not stop those who make money from pirating. They are in fact targeted at the casual user.

Microsoft Research DRM talk
Cory Doctorow (cory@eff.org), June 17, 2004
http://junk.haughey.com/doctorow-drm-ms.html#dontwork

2. DRM systems are bad for society

Raise your hand if you're thinking something like, "But DRM doesn't have to be proof against smart attackers, only average individuals! It's like a speedbump!"

Put your hand down.

This is a fallacy for two reasons: one technical, and one social. They're both bad for society, though.

Here's the technical reason: I don't need to be a cracker to break your DRM. I only need to know how to search Google, or Kazaa, or any of the other general-purpose search tools for the cleartext that someone smarter than me has extracted.

Raise your hand if you're thinking something like, "But NGSCB can solve this problem: we'll lock the secrets up on the logic board and goop it all up with epoxy."

Put your hand down.

Raise your hand if you're a co-author of the Darknet paper.

Everyone in the first group, meet the co-authors of the Darknet paper. This is a paper that says, among other things, that DRM will fail for this very reason. Put your hands down, guys.

Here's the social reason that DRM fails: keeping an honest user honest is like keeping a tall user tall. DRM vendors tell us that their technology is meant to be proof against average users, not organized criminal gangs like the Ukranian pirates who stamp out millions of high-quality counterfeits. It's not meant to be proof against sophisticated college kids. It's not meant to be proof against anyone who knows how to edit her registry, or hold down the shift key at the right moment, or use a search engine. At the end of the day, the user DRM is meant to defend against is the most unsophisticated and least capable among us.

In all fairness to HD DVD, AACS was only hacked to pieces because the Microsoft Xbox 360 HD DVD drive was not secured. Isn't this the case? AACS also hasn't been cracked yet, so till that does, AACS LA still has some degree of effectiveness.

BD+ is gonna end up likewise.

You have no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing wrong with the 360 drive's 'security', it was Corel's WinDVD which allowed the hacking.

You have no idea what you are talking about. There is nothing wrong with the 360 drive's 'security', it was Corel's WinDVD which allowed the hacking.

You need to check again.

In reality, all of these solutions do not and will not stop those who make money from pirating. They are in fact targeted at the casual user.

Microsoft Research DRM talk
Cory Doctorow (cory@eff.org), June 17, 2004
http://junk.haughey.com/doctorow-drm-ms.html#dontwork

2. DRM systems are bad for society

Raise your hand if you're thinking something like, "But DRM doesn't have to be proof against smart attackers, only average individuals! It's like a speedbump!"

Put your hand down.

This is a fallacy for two reasons: one technical, and one social. They're both bad for society, though.

Here's the technical reason: I don't need to be a cracker to break your DRM. I only need to know how to search Google, or Kazaa, or any of the other general-purpose search tools for the cleartext that someone smarter than me has extracted.

Raise your hand if you're thinking something like, "But NGSCB can solve this problem: we'll lock the secrets up on the logic board and goop it all up with epoxy."

Put your hand down.

Raise your hand if you're a co-author of the Darknet paper.

Everyone in the first group, meet the co-authors of the Darknet paper. This is a paper that says, among other things, that DRM will fail for this very reason. Put your hands down, guys.

Here's the social reason that DRM fails: keeping an honest user honest is like keeping a tall user tall. DRM vendors tell us that their technology is meant to be proof against average users, not organized criminal gangs like the Ukranian pirates who stamp out millions of high-quality counterfeits. It's not meant to be proof against sophisticated college kids. It's not meant to be proof against anyone who knows how to edit her registry, or hold down the shift key at the right moment, or use a search engine. At the end of the day, the user DRM is meant to defend against is the most unsophisticated and least capable among us.

what does any of that have to do with what i said? i said nothing abour whether drm is right or wrong, or wether its good or bad for consumer. i buy all my movies, so as long as it plays for me, why should i care.

DRM doesn't bother me. As long as I can use it for its intended use, I'm happy. I've never backed up a dvd (never had a reason to) and I have no reason to backup a blu-ray or hd dvd either.

the ammount of money studios are losing to people dl'ing on the internet pails in comparison to what's being lost on the streets of busy cities around the world.

I remember a long time ago discussions regarding BD+ were taking place and one of the things mentioned (I believe Amir used it as an counterpoint to BluRay adopting BD+) was that having a second layer of protection may even be detrimental. I don't have time to dig up the post but it goes along the lines of:

BD+ needs to acquire an unencrypted stream, therefore if one could intercept the stream that is being requested by BD+ VM then you don't even need to bypass AACS anymore making it even more vulnerable.

Since I don't really know how BD+ works I don't have much to say on the topic, except if the above is true, then once a hack is found, then it may be even easier to acquire unencrypted versions of titles with BD+ on them.

Whta's the point of using BD+ on FF42?

There is a HD DVD version released abroad, so you don't need to crack it...

Found this nice comment on the web:

If BD+ survives, it's only because DRM crackers can get everything BD+ protects more easily by cracking something else. As the bear joke goes, "I don't have to outrun the bear -- I only have to outrun you.""

Yes, Yes, and Yes. The issue is that it takes so long to crack, it's not worth the effort.

Our own government cracked PGP. :) One of the reasons why our government doesn't like to see any encryption technology over 128 bits exported is because of the time it takes them to decrypt it. It's a time issue, not a "can it be done" issue.

Hrmm

the fundamental technologies were not cracked, they merely brute force it, that is not a true crack. and is only workable on the one piece you brute forced. an inspired crack would let you do anything encrypted with that format...

what does any of that have to do with what i said? i said nothing abour whether drm is right or wrong, or wether its good or bad for consumer. i buy all my movies, so as long as it plays for me, why should i care.

DRM doesn't bother me. As long as I can use it for its intended use, I'm happy. I've never backed up a dvd (never had a reason to) and I have no reason to backup a blu-ray or hd dvd either.

the ammount of money studios are losing to people dl'ing on the internet pails in comparison to what's being lost on the streets of busy cities around the world.

DRM costs money to implement. That cost is passed onto the consumer at some point.

what does any of that have to do with what i said? i said nothing abour whether drm is right or wrong, or wether its good or bad for consumer. i buy all my movies, so as long as it plays for me, why should i care.

DRM doesn't bother me. As long as I can use it for its intended use, I'm happy. I've never backed up a dvd (never had a reason to) and I have no reason to backup a blu-ray or hd dvd either.

the ammount of money studios are losing to people dl'ing on the internet pails in comparison to what's being lost on the streets of busy cities around the world.

You said........


studios arent worrying about people downloading theres movies on the internet as much as their worrying about global counterfeiting rings severly tapping into their market share. most people dont know where to get these releases from, even "tech savvy" people.

The lecturer said........


DRM vendors tell us that their technology is meant to be proof against average users, not organized criminal gangs like the Ukranian pirates who stamp out millions of high-quality counterfeits. It's not meant to be proof against sophisticated college kids. It's not meant to be proof against anyone who knows how to edit her registry, or hold down the shift key at the right moment, or use a search engine. At the end of the day, the user DRM is meant to defend against is the most unsophisticated and least capable among us.

DRM costs money to implement. That cost is passed onto the consumer at some point.Or the savings provided by avoiding potential losses to Piracy more than covers the cost and actually may allow lower costs to those honest purchasers of the media.

Or the savings provided by avoiding potential losses to Piracy more than covers the cost and actually may allow lower costs to those honest purchasers of the media.

That's assuming this stops any of the professional pirates, and that it doesn't alienate consumers suffering compatibility problems as a result of the DRM.

As a content creator I agree whole heartedly with the concept of the content creator being able to decide how the content should be released for public consumption...I certainly do not see why people have an issue with strong copy protection.

The problem with DRM is that it interferes with fair-use, something that is not within domain of the content creator to control. I should be able to make a copy of the movies that my kids watch, so I can make a new copy when the one they're using inevitably is destroyed. I should be able to load a movie onto a portable player and watch it on the go.

And, this is not fair-use, but I should be able to watch a movie without having to deal with a 2 minute boot up time.

I hope everyone realizes that Spiderman 3 Bluray VC-1 is already making it's rounds on the net. Weeks before it's even released on disc.

Neither format is safe from piracy. Should we all start a thread now saying that "Spiderman 3 cracked, how will this affect the war?"

Or the savings provided by avoiding potential losses to Piracy more than covers the cost and actually may allow lower costs to those honest purchasers of the media.

This assumes pirates would buy if they were unable to obtain for free/low cost. As for free, it takes but one copy to be available on the net and it spreads. As for low cost, that is a problem for the pro hackers/pirates out there to make available. I don't really see how people who pirate are the kind of people who would buy if it was made difficult to pirate.

I have a lot of DVDs, more than anyone I know personally... I like having a nice collection with covers extras and twin disc sets etc. Pirate versions being free don't sway my mind as to which I'd choose. On the other hand, I know of people who would even pirate music CDs released for charitable purposes... it's a sickness, they don't equate anything to value, they just have to get things pirated. I know of people who have gone out of their way to pirate a movie and it ended costing them more than had they bought legit (cost of two DL DVDs at the time came out to roughly the cost of the original item itself and if you factor in that you either have to find someone with a copy or rent it then you are out of pocket more than you would if you just bought it). I know of people who pirate but when it comes to something they like, they want to buy the item, at whatever price it sells for. There are many reasons for people to pirate. But ease of piracy is not one of them... many even pirate as the DRM free pirated versions are in their mind - Superior.

You don't have to crack them one by one. The BD+ JVM will decode ALL BD+ discs. The code needed to decode all BD+ discs is already included in every standalone player. Hackers only need to discover that master code to unlock all BD discs.

So there is one code that will decode all BD+ discs, making it unnecessary to crack disc by disc. not to mention that when one disc is hacked, BD+ will be stripped from it and a BD+ free copy will be distributed over the net. So BD+ would only hurt people who own the disc and want fair use copies. A single hacked BD+ disc would be all illegal downloaders need.

Maybe I am just a nerd.. but.. that totally made me think of this: One code to rule them all, One code to find them, One code to bring them all and in the darkness bind them


:)

Tony

You have got to be kidding me...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Ladies and gentlemen: May I present to you a text book example of someone trying to intellectualize theft, based on the moral relativistic crap so prevelent in the minds of first year philosophy majors." I hate to break it to you, but theft is theft. If you or your friends can't comprehend that, then you are the very reason for the existance of DRM. Honor among thieves, indeed.

So you concede that you have no cogent argument to backup your viewpoint and will elevate copyright 'theft' to the state of a moral truism which doesn't require argument? Again, I say copying != theft.

FYI I'm not a moral relativist, I think we have a universal moral grammar much like in language, which varies slightly between subgroups. And I've never studied philosophy, rather law. But this is getting off topic. It just makes me lulz that so many think copying is theft and is strong testimony to the brilliance of media propaganda.

Nice try at rationalization. Try telling that to the orchard owner who would have less sales if that were possible. And try to tell that to recording artists are routinely ripped off. And writers, and movie directors, and anyone else who produces something of value using their labor and capital. And, if it were possible, why wouldn't you simply plant an apple tree, harvest your apples and copy away to your heart's content? I guess to do that you'd have to invest some of your own capital (land, etc) and labor.



This is way off topic, i can talk about this if you'd like but over PM.



But let me guess -- you've never produced anything either physical or intellectual that anybody would want to bother stealing?

Ad hominem that needs no further comment and shows you have no ability to debate and no substance in your argument.

time