This past week I was at a WB Press Event for their Q4 titles. The Toshiba Team was on hand I interviewed both them and WB about Q4.

Off the record I asked if anything would be happening on the 31st concerning the possible expiration of the BD contract with WB and they both danced around the question, but one of them said that something interested... "If I were a betting person, which I am, I would bet something...." then I was interrupted and missed the rest of it. Read in to it what you will, but my personal belief is something is going to happen or be announced come the 31st.

Also, in the WB portion he gave me an exclusive about a title coming in January. Check it out here.

http://www.eyecravedvd.com/article.php?story=20071025104926326

I was told by one source that WB has already made their decision. ;)

I do believe they did and I think I know which way they went, but I found it interesting that they said anything.

This past week I was at a WB Press Event for their Q4 titles. The Toshiba Team was on hand I interviewed both them and WB about Q4.

Off the record I asked if anything would be happening on the 31st concerning the possible expiration of the BD contract with WB and they both danced around the question, but one of them said that something interested... "If I were a betting person, which I am, I would bet something...." then I was interrupted and missed the rest of it. Read in to it what you will, but my personal belief is something is going to happen or be announced come the 31st.

Also, in the WB portion he gave me an exclusive about a title coming in January. Check it out here.

http://www.eyecravedvd.com/article.php?story=20071025104926326

when you say 31st....do you mean the 31st of Oct?

Let's hope it does.

This seems pretty interesting, video still loading :P

when you say 31st....do you mean the 31st of Oct?

YES. 31st of October.

This seems pretty interesting, video still loading :P

They wouldn't answer the question on camera. Can't say I blame them.

can't wait to find out more :D

also, is the Q1 title " I am Legend " ??

Watched both videos, nice work :)

Thanks. I AM not allowed to say officially, but, unofficially, I say yes.

Eh, I see the HD DVD titles on display, where's the Blu-ray set-up? Only made it through the first video though.

I've been to four of these events now and Blu-ray has never been there. Toshiba has been at each one. I don't know if Blu-ray's ever been asked to attend, but I know they haven't been at any of the events I've been to including Disney and Fox ones.

Gotchya, Thanks.

YES. 31st of October.

I see, if they're actually picking a side, I still thinking dropping the bomb at CES would make more sense than at the end of the month UNLESS the HD DVD group is asking WB to fast track to maximize hardware Q4 holiday sales.

Assuming things is so much fun :p

There was an interesting thread in the bluray forum on Warner renewing membership in the BDA in Oct. which as of a few weeks ago they had not. So you think Warner will announce exclusivity around halloween before the xmas shopping season or after xmas at CES?

I see, if they're actually picking a side, I still thinking dropping the bomb at CES would make more sense than at the end of the month UNLESS the HD DVD group is asking WB to fast track to maximize hardware Q4 holiday sales.

Assuming things is so much fun :p

Dropping the bomb before xmas makes more sense to me. If you are going to drop a format let the consumer know, the sooner the better before they buy a player.

I can't get the second video to load past 7min 15 sec.

My god, I can't believe they let that guy be a rep for WB. He's cute as hell but he needs to keep his mouth shut and stand in the back.

Dropping the bomb before xmas makes more sense to me. If you are going to drop a format let the consumer know, the sooner the better before they buy a player.

Exactly, the thing is that most of the times they like to save their news for the big events, this is why I think they haven't said anything about TL51 compatibility with GEN-1 machines yet, the sooner the better for me, I hate the waiting game.

Trick or Treat...?

They wouldn't answer the question on camera. Can't say I blame them.


The WB guy seemed really cool, he also looked like he had quite a few drinks in him :D This is the best time to try to squeeze some info out, great job on that! lol

If it's true about the 31st and they go exclusive the game is over for BR. Think about it $149-$199 Hd-DVD player (Walmart A2's and Venturer everywhere else)BR could not and willnot recover.

Was a question asked during about Warner going exclusive during the interview or did I miss something?

Was a question asked during about Warner going exclusive during the interview or did I miss something?


No, he said he asked that off the record, it's not in the video.

Good gawd, that would be something.

The interwebs would explode, I'd celebrate by buying Planet Earth (haven't yet), and the future success of HDM would be secure. :p

I hope if they are going HD DVD exclusive it is before the XMAS holiday. That would be awesome! HD DVD needs another shot in the arm again to show consumers it is here to stay. The Sony FUD machine has been in full force again.
I have been trying to convice co-workers to buy into HD DVD with an A2 @ $200 and most are responding "Didn't I just see Bluray outselling 2-1" in the news. "When I went to Target I saw mostly Bluray and only a few HD DVDs". Everyone keeps telling me they are going to wait, but they think Blu will win. Ugh.....

I asked if they renewed and they said "I cannot comment on that". then when into what I posted above.

I asked if they renewed and they said "I cannot comment on that". then when into what I posted above.

Can you tell me why the complete 2nd video won't load? I tried it on two different browsers.

Well I watched both videos, but I don't get the "hint" about the big exclusive that was mentioned regarding the last humans on Earth. Anybody know why this was crucial or understand what it means??

They wouldn't answer the question on camera. Can't say I blame them.

How convenient! I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof. Funny how proof isn't required in the HD DVD forum.

hdhabit, show me proof Warner renewed thier BDA membership. It's only like $40,000 I believe. I know the contract expires in Oct.

How convenient! I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof. Funny how proof isn't required in the HD DVD forum.

Eh? We all know there's nothing to do but wait until the 31st. Or CES. Or whenever.

How convenient! I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof. Funny how proof isn't required in the HD DVD forum.

Dude, wtf. :confused: proof of what? no one (in a position to know) has made an outright statement either way. Lighten up. You've got a guy (one guy in the thread) who was there talking to these people, even he hasn't made a definitive statement, so seriously proof of what? an innuendo?

This isn't a freaking court of law. Were you there? if so I'm sure everyone would love to hear your opinion on the matter.

WB exclusive and $198.00 players or less = war over!

Disney and Fox would go neutral almost immediately leaving Sony the only major studio supporting BR.

Agreed, this is all speculation...who really knows. We can discuss and we can always hope! :)

Agreed, this is all speculation...who really knows. We can discuss and we can always hope! :)

Chit I'm not even hoping but this BS of requiring a bonded letter of assurance to post a freaking thread is hilarious :)

How convenient! I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof. Funny how proof isn't required in the HD DVD forum.

You're completely off topic, doesn't this post makes you the "Blu-Ray attack dog demanding proof" on the HD DVD forum? LOL Talk about setting yourself up.

I dont want to rain on the parade, but the general rule about companys going exclusive rumor is to believe after it happend.

Remember what happend on the Bluray forum when they thought Warner were going exclusive.

I dont want to rain on the parade, but the general rule about companys going exclusive rumor is to believe after it happend.

Remember what happend on the Bluray forum when they thought Warner were going exclusive.

I'm sorry was there a parade? Most of the HD DVD guys here have heard this song before. Trust me you won't see the level of "excitement" over this as the WB exclusive rumor caused over at BD.com.

Over 100 pages at 30 posts a piece in less than 24 hours at bluray.com stemming from a 1st time poster with no credentials. What a bunch of losers. This is a bit different. You have a legitimate source with live interviews and a contract to expire in 4 days. OK, has Warner renewed their contract with the BDA? If they haven't they have 3 business days to do so. If that is not a hint I don't know what is.

...if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs...

Hi pot! How is kettle?

BTW, nice attack, dog!

MEGATON! WAR OVER!

Hopefully we get good news come Halloween.

I'm sorry was there a parade?
By Swedish standard ;)

By Swedish standard ;)


lol I love Gyllene Tider by the way :P

It seems like these rumors emerge almost daily. I will simply check the news on the 31st, and until then I will go about my normal routine.

Im sure we all will here about Nov 1st if it would happen. I was without internet connection when the Paramount thing happend and I didnt even miss it.

p.s. Tobi, I cant understand why everyone loves "Golden times"

I see, if they're actually picking a side, I still thinking dropping the bomb at CES would make more sense than at the end of the month ...

If Warner synchronizes their announcement with a major Walmart $198 announcement, which we know is coming Nov 3, it would make good sense to me ;)

Dropping the bomb before xmas makes more sense to me. If you are going to drop a format let the consumer know, the sooner the better before they buy a player.

Paramount.... Check

Dreamworks.... Check

$198 HD DVD players.... Check

Warner Brothers.... Processing

It seems like these rumors emerge almost daily. I will simply check the news on the 31st, and until then I will go about my normal routine.

Wisest post I have seen all day!

I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof.
That's because unlike the Blu Ray fanboys, HD DVD fanboys are not mouth-lathered fanatic pitbulls at every comment made by anyone. :D

i will believe when it happen.

i will believe when it happen.
I will get "300" of my best "Transformers" and personally see to it that they and "Shrek The Third" pee on the first Blu Ray disk they see. :cool::D

when you say 31st....do you mean the 31st of Oct?

I can see the headline now. A Nightmare on Blu Street"

If this news turns out to be true (which I really hope is), I have to wonder where this will leave New Line since they are affiliated with Warner Brothers. Warner has treated Blu-ray like a step child every since the format launched, by withholding titles and features on certain titles. If this news comes to fruition I believe Blu-ray supporting studios may reconsider their exclusivity when time comes for their renewal to the BDA. I have long believed that whomever had exclusive backing from Warner Brothers had the greatest chance of winning the format war. It is my understanding that Warner has the largest catalog of films in Hollywood, which if true can't be ignored.

i will believe when it happen.

Word. Well (s) now; word.

This past week I was at a WB Press Event for their Q4 titles. The Toshiba Team was on hand I interviewed both them and WB about Q4.

Off the record I asked if anything would be happening on the 31st concerning the possible expiration of the BD contract with WB and they both danced around the question, but one of them said that something interested... "If I were a betting person, which I am, I would bet something...." then I was interrupted and missed the rest of it. Read in to it what you will, but my personal belief is something is going to happen or be announced come the 31st.

Also, in the WB portion he gave me an exclusive about a title coming in January. Check it out here.

http://www.eyecravedvd.com/article.php?story=20071025104926326

Thanks for the video.
Interesting, the Transformers 190k was not counting Canada..

If they intend to continue their blu membership, I can't imagine why Warner would hold off renewing until the 31st.

I will say the 31st/ November 1st would be the perfect time for announcing of exclusivity (possibly working with the Nov 3rd Wal-Mart Toshiba sale? ). We'll wait and see.

trick or treat :D .

It is my understanding that Warner has the largest catalog of films in Hollywood, which if true can't be ignored.

But Remember, Blu Ray is mostly for mainstream movies. Or people who have a great distaste for Superb movies. I hope this is true.

It would be awesome if WB would declare HD DVD exclusivity (again) on/near Halloween, however i guess it is just wait and see. If this does happen (please, please) then get ready for the Blu-ray smear campaign (with rumors of huge bribes and other "evils").

Why would WB renew their BDA membership before the deadline when they would have an insane amount of leverage with the BDA if they let the deal expire? WB is a major player and they know it. The threat of going to the other side has to be worth millions in incentives (and free membership in BDA for life).

If Warner synchronizes their announcement with a major Walmart $198 announcement, which we know is coming Nov 3, it would make good sense to me ;)

Of course it may not happen. But it's made no sense to me to wait until after the 4th quarter to go format exclusive and end the war. Drop the bomb when you're over the target!

WB hasn't been announcing much of anything lately.

IF this is true (and that's a big "if"), I'd guess they are going to finish out the year with their BD releases and then move to HD only.

hdhabit, show me proof Warner renewed thier BDA membership. It's only like $40,000 I believe. I know the contract expires in Oct.
Do you have a source on the date of the expiration of the contract? Oct. 31 seems like a really strange time to set for the end of a contract-I would think that the BDA would have wanted a contract through Christmas, and Warner would have wanted the contract to expire earlier than Oct. 31.

Since this seems like as good a thread as any for rampant speculation, here is my opinion about what is going to happen. Warner is going to go exclusive for HD DVD at the 2008 CES. Kinda. Because I also believe that Warner is going to continue to release on Blu-ray, but those releases are going to be limited to the big blockbusters. So, in other words Warner might only have 3 or 4 releases on Blu-ray in a year, while releasing everything onto HD DVD. It's possible that Warner will announce full exclusivity at first (to make HD DVD the so-called winner of the format war), but then by September announce a handful of releases for Blu-ray that should sell to the growing base of PS3 users.

Now, if the contract truly does expire Oct. 31st, then maybe Warner will announce something then. I've never understood why Warner was staying neutral after the Paramount announcement. The contract would explain why.

I am still of the position that Warner needs to announce exclusivity for one side or the other. Neutrality didn't work. The other studios are further away from neutrality right now than they were a year ago. There is such a deadlock that player sales are being severely hampered. I expect the BD standalone player sales to be absolutely abysmal (due to price, crippled functionality, and the format war). And HD DVD player sales, even with a Wal-Mart boost, aren't going to be anywhere near what they could have been this Christmas.

All I know is that I have supported only HD DVD since day one, but for the past few months I have told myself that whatever side Warner supports, I will support as well. Blu-ray fans can claim that Warner going HD DVD exclusive would not be a big deal, but in reality the ball is in Warner's court right now and whatever side they pick will most definitely become the winner.

Or end bluray releases after the exclusivity announcement as Paramount did. Ocean's trilogy, Harry Potter boxset hd only. This could make sense why they didn't announce any more titles if they are dropping one format. Amir did drop a huge hint a few months back.

Guys, color me HIGHLY skeptical once again. EyeCrave please don't take this as anything on you. It's not. I have no doubt you were there, and Warner and Toshiba talked to you and such. But Nfinity was soooooooo sure Warner was going HD DVD only due to some hint he got from somewhere. And he got this forum all up in a frenzy, only to see Warner's reps out at the Blu-ray presser in Germany.

That doesn't suggest to me they are going BD exclusive at all either. But I am just not ready to believe that come November 1st they are dropping BD support just like that.

The ONLY way I see this, and it's a long shot that I don't even believe, is if somehow Toshiba got with Warner and let them know what they were doing with Wal-Mart and the A2's, and between that and the 300 pack-in with the A3 series Warner decided it was time to pick their side and try to end this format war. But the evidence of their apparent happiness with dual format sales tells me this isn't realistic either.

Or end bluray releases after the exclusivity announcement as Paramount did. Ocean's trilogy, Harry Potter boxset hd only. This could make sense why they didn't announce any more titles if they are dropping one format. Amir did drop a huge hint a few months back.

Good point!!!

Warner then wouldn't' have to worry about releasing a movie that has all the NEXT GEN Features

1) PiP Interactivity
2) Internet Connectivity

.... and the other without. Unifying the HD Master Film and Special NEXT GEN Featurettes!!!

That's why "Batman Begins" has not been released on Blu-ray, their BD-J spec is a mess.

The only Blu-ray BD 1.1 player announced (Denon) to date has been delayed 'till 2008.

Now, around December you might get the $1049 Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo HD Player.

It will be BD Profile 1.1 Ready, but according to ...



Samsungs Newsrelease & UPDATE @ PCWorld.com (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/004989.html) ...

Samsung Dual-Format High-Def Player Does Blu-ray and HD DVD - Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:40 AM PT Posted by Melissa Perenson

UPDATE: And, sadly, you won't get support for the forthcoming update to Blu-ray's minimum player specs that go into effect October 31. ...

... Samsung's Maria Colon, marketing manager, and Reid Sullivan, vice president of marketing; they clarified that the BD-UP5000's storage and picture-in-picture would only work on HD DVD discs, not Blu-ray Discs. Sullivan also said that Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008.

...As Sullivan noted in conversation with me, it's the proverbial chicken-and-egg challenge: If the software (meaning: Blu-ray movies) aren't out that require the storage and picture-in-picture, then why should the hardware makers rush to integrate those features?

So, Oct. 31st was just a nice target date that Sony set, but will miss (again)!!!

------------

I really like some of Blu-ray EXCLUSIVE blockbuster movies!!!

But since Blu-ray's BD-J spec. is a mess, I'll wait until the following is a reality (that is, ... if Blu-ray survives**) ...

1) $198.00 Blu-ray Profile 1.1 (PiP Interactivity) & Profile 2.0 (Internet Connectivity) is available.

2) Blu-ray blockbuster movies are Re-Released to take Advantage of BD-J Profile 1.1 & 2.0

**Sony will not meet sales goal for Playstation 3 (http://www.dvdtown.com/news/sony-will-not-meet-sales-goal-for-playstation-3/4849)
By Henning Molbaek
FIRST ONLINE Oct 25, 2007


Its computer division however, still struggles to show good numbers. They have sold the Playstation 3 with loss and sold less than expected. A quarterly loss of ¥96.7 billion ($845 million) showed they have a long way before they will make any money. The games unit, which recently announced a price cut for the PS3, won't be profitable until the next business year ending March 2009, it said.

Phil

Wow. Go away for a bit things explode. The Warner Exec with home I spoke did not correct me when I asked if they were letting their Oct 31st contract end with the BDA.

Plus, I never stated they were going to drop anything just that something will be announced - it could be continued support. The only reason I posted this on the HD DVD side is because it was a Toshiba interview and had nothing to do with Blu-ray.

I've tried multiple times to get the info from them and all I get is "I have no comment" from them, but then when this exec added that little tidbit I put in the first post something leads me to believe something is in the works.

WB exclusive and $198.00 players or less = war over!

Disney and Fox would go neutral almost immediately leaving Sony the only major studio supporting BR.
If WB goes exclusive, and that's a big if, I could see Disney possibly going neutral but I don't think Fox would ever touch HD DVD (at least for a very long time). Fox wouldn't even release BD titles until BD+ was working so, there fear of pirates will keep them away from HD DVD for a long while IMO.

i know anything can happen in this format war, but i seriously doubt that Warner is going to go HD DVD-exclusive anytime soon. they are making far too much money from consumers on both sides.

Wow. Go away for a bit things explode. The Warner Exec with home I spoke did not correct me when I asked if they were letting their Oct 31st contract end with the BDA.

Plus, I never stated they were going to drop anything just that something will be announced - it could be continued support. The only reason I posted this on the HD DVD side is because it was a Toshiba interview and had nothing to do with Blu-ray.

I've tried multiple times to get the info from them and all I get is "I have no comment" from them, but then when this exec added that little tidbit I put in the first post something leads me to believe something is in the works.

But this bit of "no comment" does leave room to dream. Most HD DVD supporters know that this is just speculative since we/they have been through it before. Only WB knows what the feel is best for them... but still... :D

Well, we shall see what will unfold for the 31st of Oct. 2007. Can this have anything to do with the $198 HD DVD player from Wal-Mart? We are talking about 2 million or so ordered :D

Oh, you can expect BD players to drop to near $200 in about 2 to 3 years time.

i know anything can happen in this format war, but i seriously doubt that Warner is going to go HD DVD-exclusive anytime soon. they are making far too much money from consumers on both sides.

Warner could drop both and the book keeper would say "hey, it looks like the guys on the 2nd floor have stopped sneaking lattes into the budget"

If this were true, lets say I would love it to be but I will remain very skeptical until anything is announced. I think it makes the news from the other day about the T3 Blu-ray release kind of funny. Just before they announce exclusivity they have a press release about how much is required to equal what has been capable on HD DVD from day one.

If Paramount did lie about their Transformers sales numbers, then perhaps WB (if they were considering dropping Blu-ray) will reconsider since that would have skewed the numbers for that week in HD-DVD's favor (though they still lost according to VideoScan).

I would think WB would be smarter than all this because if the sales reports are to believed at any one time, then Blu-ray is still outselling HD-DVD by a large sum. Also, New Line has been announcing Blu-ray titles with HD-DVD versions to come out "later." What does that say?

If warner's goes exclusive it will even the field and disc sales will most likely lvl out.

If they go exclusive before big titles like Harry potter it should give hd dvd a few more big weeks .

In the end I thik it will just cement the dual format players and releases on both sides of the fence for the long haul.

I don't doubt that hd dvd can make a sweeter deal to wb since sony is having so much trouble with the ps3 they might not be able to offer a good joint promotion plan.

If Paramount did lie about their Transformers sales numbers, then perhaps WB (if they were considering dropping Blu-ray) will reconsider since that would have skewed the numbers for that week in HD-DVD's favor (though they still lost according to VideoScan).

I would think WB would be smarter than all this because if the sales reports are to believed at any one time, then Blu-ray is still outselling HD-DVD by a large sum. Also, New Line has been announcing Blu-ray titles with HD-DVD versions to come out "later." What does that say?
That only has to do with the HD DVD being region free. Their are many titles coming out in North America which are still in theaters in other parts of the world, so this is why New Line is releasing the HD DVD titles after the BD releases.

Anyway, if Warner goes HD DVD exclusive, then this HD Format war is going to be very close to over with HD DVD being the victor in at least Q3 2008 or before. IMO

It can't be said that Blu is outselling HD DVD by a "large margin" because there's nothing "large" about the HDM market right now.

But make no mistake: If Warner were to announce HD exclusivity, that would be the back-breaker. That would be two massive studio losses for Blu-ray in less than four months, and that's called momentum, folks. I think the story would make huge waves in the news and soon the rest of the dominoes would start to fall.

You have to think that if two big studios like that go from neutral to exclusive, there are very good underlying reasons for it (such as better economics, stronger base of standalones, etc.).

I don't know if it will happen. It sure would be explosive.

Say, what did we decide about the rumor that MS or Toshiba was planning an Xbox 360 "media center" with HD DVD built in? Personally, I don't see MS moving forward with such a thing unless they were assured of HD DVD's success. Perhaps they know something we don't?... Something we'll find out next week? :)

Basesless speculation on my part, but in this format war, it seems like anything is possible.

I don't think anyone expected Java to be the mess it is, and so far behind. Blu-ray's production has improved drastically, and I'd say it is the superior format when it comes to delivering the "feature", ie, the best video and audio. But... and this is the ticker - it is not even in the same league as HD DVD in terms of interactivity. This is what next gen DVDs have to sell to consumers, mainly those who may still pick DVD even if they have a HDTV: "Look what your DVD can't do!"

We're already seeing a shift into exclusive bonus contents on HD that's not on the DVD. I think the larger goal is to completely eliminate the "Special Collector's edition" DVDs that are coming out and replace them with the HD counterpart. A barebones DVD vs a fully loaded HD DVD/Blu-ray.

The problem is, even if Blu-ray gets 1.1 out, it doesn't solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of players locking up or not playing these discs when a bonus feature is selected. This is something Warner will obviously take into account when/if they choose a format.

I just want one format. The quicker the better. I don't mind paying a bit more for my players and movies, if I have peace of mind that I'm not wasting my money.

What if the tables were turned on HD-DVD and the suits at WB went Blu-ray exclusively?

Maybe some back room deals are being hatched before WB renews with the BDA?

ANYTHING could be happening right now.

Dan

The Warner Exec with home I spoke did not correct me when I asked if they were letting their Oct 31st contract end with the BDA.

Did you ask him or did you state this to him? If you stated this to him then he gave you a non verbal nod then yes they are letting it expire. If you asked him and he didn't comment it could go either way. Your wording is rather vague.

Just in case anyone is curious... that is me in the video doing the interviews.

Did you ask him or did you state this to him? If you stated this to him then he gave you a non verbal nod then yes they are letting it expire. If you asked him and he didn't comment it could go either way. Your wording is rather vague.

My wording was "Will Warner Bros. be renewing the blu-ray contract on Oct. 31st or will you be letting it expire?"

I didn't pay attention to the body language, but the first words out of her mouth was "I cannot comment on that". Then went on to say a bunch of stuff about their current support for both, but then tossed in the little tidbit I mentioned before.

All I know is that I have supported only HD DVD since day one, but for the past few months I have told myself that whatever side Warner supports, I will support as well. Blu-ray fans can claim that Warner going HD DVD exclusive would not be a big deal, but in reality the ball is in Warner's court right now and whatever side they pick will most definitely become the winner.

Yup. Whatever Warner does is a tipping point, and I'm sure they know it. It makes sense for them to make a choice soon, unless they enjoy being locked in a stalemate that's hampering mass adoption of HDM. If they go HD DVD, Blu fans will scream and holler "payoff!" but they'll do it while driving straight to Wal-Mart to pick up their A2. The install base for HD DVD would practically expand overnight to be equal to that of (BD standalones) + (PS3's used regularly for BD playback) - (handful of hardcore zealots who paid $600-$1000 for a machine that plays movies from 3 studios but won't spend another $200 to watch movies from the other 3). If they go Blu, I still won't get a Blu player until they're $200 and have a finished spec, but I'd immediately eBay my HD DVDs and use my A1 exclusively as a rental disc player. I'd expect enough others to do the same that the HD DVD software numbers would plummet so low that Paramount and Universal would throw in the towel. I think Warner truly is the key now to the difference between indefinite stalemate vs quick march towards victory for one camp.

If Warner synchronizes their announcement with a major Walmart $198 announcement, which we know is coming Nov 3, it would make good sense to me.
Of course it may not happen. But it's made no sense to me to wait until after the 4th quarter to go format exclusive and end the war. Drop the bomb when you're over the target!

It seems like something of a triple-point.

OCT 31 -- last permitted day for introduction to market of a BD-ROM Profile 1.0 player.
OCT 31 -- end of Warner current membership agreement in BDA.
Nov 3 -- official Walmart announcement of Toshiba HD-A2 availability ($198).

If WB really does exit the BDA as of Nov 1 (Oct 31 last day), what becomes of the prospects for any Profile 1.1 or 2.0 BD players actually getting to market? If this rumour turns out to be fact, the ramifications could be far reaching. Guess I'm going to be watching the news closely come Oct 31.

I was told by one source that WB has already made their decision. ;)

Could you please give us some insight into your sources? I realize you can't give names and addresses, but perhaps share your general line of work and that of your source, and how he/she would be in a position to know? I hope you don't take any offense at the question, as none at all is intended. It's just that with the anonymity of the internet in general, and the specific tendencies of some people on this forum, it could be easy for a genuine piece of information to be dismissed as just another person counting voices in their head as "inside sources." Again, I'm not making any such implication towards you by asking the question.

I don't think anyone expected Java to be the mess it is, and so far behind. Blu-ray's production has improved drastically, and I'd say it is the superior format when it comes to delivering the "feature", ie, the best video and audio. But... and this is the ticker - it is not even in the same league as HD DVD in terms of interactivity. This is what next gen DVDs have to sell to consumers, mainly those who may still pick DVD even if they have a HDTV: "Look what your DVD can't do!"

We're already seeing a shift into exclusive bonus contents on HD that's not on the DVD. I think the larger goal is to completely eliminate the "Special Collector's edition" DVDs that are coming out and replace them with the HD counterpart. A barebones DVD vs a fully loaded HD DVD/Blu-ray.

The problem is, even if Blu-ray gets 1.1 out, it doesn't solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of players locking up or not playing these discs when a bonus feature is selected. This is something Warner will obviously take into account when/if they choose a format.

I just want one format. The quicker the better. I don't mind paying a bit more for my players and movies, if I have peace of mind that I'm not wasting my money.

Just picked up a used BD-P1000 (finished the installation Friday) and I've accumulated some sixty titles over the last couple months of sales to play on it. Even if WB goes HD DVD exclusive as of Nov 1, I won't feel I wasted the money. My new additions are doing a good job of entertaining me :)!

EyeCrave,

Can you enlighten us as to what that little exclusive tidbit at the end of the interview referred to? You know, the one regarding some January movie involving "last humans on Earth" or something like that. I don't get it.

My wording was "Will Warner Bros. be renewing the blu-ray contract on Oct. 31st or will you be letting it expire?"

I didn't pay attention to the body language, but the first words out of her mouth was "I cannot comment on that". Then went on to say a bunch of stuff about their current support for both, but then tossed in the little tidbit I mentioned before.

Then this is indeed all wild speculation on your part. If the rep. still was talking about dual format support like before then the "can't comment" statement about their BDA renewal could mean there are still some negotiations going on with the BDA before the deadline. Of course, the rep. couldn't talk about that.

Again, anything could be happening.

Dan

EyeCrave,

Can you enlighten us as to what that little exclusive tidbit at the end of the interview referred to? You know, the one regarding some January movie involving "last humans on Earth" or something like that. I don't get it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0480249/

EyeCrave,

Can you enlighten us as to what that little exclusive tidbit at the end of the interview referred to? You know, the one regarding some January movie involving "last humans on Earth" or something like that. I don't get it.

"I Am Legend"

How convenient! I mean seriously if this was in the Blu-ray forum and they were talking about WB going Blu exclusive you guys would be in their like attack dogs demanding proof. Funny how proof isn't required in the HD DVD forum.Show me where the OP said that WB was going exclusive. I missed that part.

Could you please give us some insight into your sources? I realize you can't give names and addresses, but perhaps share your general line of work and that of your source, and how he/she would be in a position to know? I hope you don't take any offense at the question, as none at all is intended. It's just that with the anonymity of the internet in general, and the specific tendencies of some people on this forum, it could be easy for a genuine piece of information to be dismissed as just another person counting voices in their head as "inside sources." Again, I'm not making any such implication towards you by asking the question.

Hes a car salesman. He used to go by the name Oshodi till he was banned.

Oh, I'm imagining it now.....Harry Potter HD DVD exclusive!! Wouldn't that be sweet! :D

If Paramount did lie about their Transformers sales numbers, then perhaps WB (if they were considering dropping Blu-ray) will reconsider since that would have skewed the numbers for that week in HD-DVD's favor (though they still lost according to VideoScan).

I would think WB would be smarter than all this because if the sales reports are to believed at any one time, then Blu-ray is still outselling HD-DVD by a large sum. Also, New Line has been announcing Blu-ray titles with HD-DVD versions to come out "later." What does that say?
You do understand that four (and a half if you count Lionsgate) studios are releasing on Blu-ray, and only three on HD DVD? And a majority of the blockbusters released this year belong to the studios releasing on Blu-ray? Do you think that Warner will blindly look at the numbers and not understand why Blu-ray is selling software better at this time? Do you think Warner is not going to look at the big movies being released next year and realize that it could be HD DVD who has the big advantage next year with its exclusive releases?

Everything I know tells me that Nov. is not when we can expect a decision. WB will support only one format, to do so WHV will make the case to corporate and right now the feeling is that 2 formats will not work unless all studios are also neutral. With split support, only one format is required and so Warner Home Video will choose a side....however, the timing is March not Nov. If they do announce in Nov, then I am assuming it could go either way - BD or HD DVD exclusive. If they did go HD DVD exclusive in Nov, then the economics behind BD must be horrible for Warner corporate to accept it....so, a Nov. announcement IMO favors BD, a March announcement favors HD DVD. Don't ask me why :)

I am a skeptic. Both sides have very deep pockets. I am sure both sides are willing to pay Warner what ever they want.

Isn't Warner developing an on-line site for HD DVD films like Universal has? I doubt they would continue that if they were planning on dropping HD DVD.

My bet is they announce a joint Warner/HD DVD promotion, but still support Blu-Ray some too.

EyeCrave,

Can you enlighten us as to what that little exclusive tidbit at the end of the interview referred to? You know, the one regarding some January movie involving "last humans on Earth" or something like that. I don't get it.

It's a Will Smith movie. The tag line is "The Last Man on Earth is not Alone"

Everything I know tells me that Nov. is not when we can expect a decision. WB will support only one format, to do so WHV will make the case to corporate and right now the feeling is that 2 formats will not work unless all studios are also neutral. With split support, only one format is required and so Warner Home Video will choose a side....however, the timing is March not Nov. If they do announce in Nov, then I am assuming it could go either way - BD or HD DVD exclusive. If they did go HD DVD exclusive in Nov, then the economics behind BD must be horrible for Warner corporate to accept it....so, a Nov. announcement IMO favors BD, a March announcement favors HD DVD. Don't ask me why :)

Now, I don't much beyond what I've posted, but if Warner is announcing exclusivity they may wait till the end of the year before dropping which ever side they decide to go with.

I am a skeptic. Bith sides have very deep pockets. I am sure both sides are willing to pay Warner what ever they want.

Isn't Warner developing an on-line site for HD DVD films like Universal has? I doubt they would continue that if they were planning on dropping HD DVD.

My bet is they announce a joint Warner/HD DVD promotion, but still support Blu-Ray some too.

Here's their Canadian Hi-Def site which is seen at the beginning of interview with Toshiba.
http://www.warnervideo.com/hidef/canada/html/

Never understood why a number of studios support a vertically-integrated competitor. Fox is fixated on BD+, but the rest of them?

Everything I know tells me that Nov. is not when we can expect a decision. WB will support only one format, to do so WHV will make the case to corporate and right now the feeling is that 2 formats will not work unless all studios are also neutral. With split support, only one format is required and so Warner Home Video will choose a side....however, the timing is March not Nov. If they do announce in Nov, then I am assuming it could go either way - BD or HD DVD exclusive. If they did go HD DVD exclusive in Nov, then the economics behind BD must be horrible for Warner corporate to accept it....so, a Nov. announcement IMO favors BD, a March announcement favors HD DVD. Don't ask me why :)

Why would a march announcement favor hddvd?

Wow, imagine if WB pulled a Paramount and canceled all there Blu titles for the rest of the year. No more HP series, and Oceans series canceled

Here's their Canadian Hi-Def site which is seen at the beginning of interview with Toshiba.
http://www.warnervideo.com/hidef/canada/html/
Why do these companies keep doing this? Their trailer of The Reaping is a pixelated mess. Toshiba did the same thing last year with their thelookandsoundofperfect.com website.


Universal are going Blu-ray exclusive in Q1 2008.

Proof?

Lackluster HD-DVD sales, mediocre Q4 line-up, HD-DVD's biggest ever title failing to win a week and and finally Universal visiting Blu-ray facilities.

Easy isn't it!
Except that it would be a complete about face for Universal. The more llikely statement is that Sony is going UMD exclusive in 2008. Sony has been releasing on both Blu-ray and UMD for quite some time, but finally has realized just how great it is to have a physically smaller disc that can work in a tiny player such as the PSP.

Universal visiting BD facilities? Highly doubt it.

Universal visiting Blu-ray facilities.


When did this happen? First I've heard about it

Universal visiting BD facilities? Highly doubt it.

It's a cast iron FACT, and not just a one off visit.

Things are moving behind the scenes on both sides.

Question:-


Is it true that Universal have recently been snooping around Blu-Ray production facilities? I remember a comment on this thread earlier and one of the insiders confirmed it. Paid, penton would you happen to know any more?



Penton-man Blu-ray insider:-

Their people have been sniffing around for awhile……….which indicates how invalid past statements by Alan Bell are regarding disc production.

Never understood why a number of studios support a vertically-integrated competitor. Fox is fixated on BD+, but the rest of them?
Good point.

If WB did go HD DVD exclusive, the week Wal-mart launches $198 players would be excellent timing, you have to admit that much.

Smart money is that they’ll stay neutral, but you’d think that any question regarding WB renewing their BDA membership would have to favor a positive HD DVD announcement.

When did this happen? First I've heard about it

Thats a Bill Hunt story :D

Thats a Bill Hunt story :D

So it must be true:rolleyes:

Thats a Bill Hunt story :D


See above edited post.

It's a fact.

Universal are going Blu-ray exclusive in Q1 2008.

Proof?

Lackluster HD-DVD sales, mediocre Q4 line-up, HD-DVD's biggest ever title failing to win a week and and finally Universal visiting Blu-ray facilities.

Easy isn't it!

SO your OPINION is the same as someone talking to a WB rep??

Yes, it is easy I guess.

See above edited post.

It's a fact.

cause pento said so? :rolleyes:...give me a break :cool:

All I know is that I have supported only HD DVD since day one, but for the past few months I have told myself that whatever side Warner supports, I will support as well. Blu-ray fans can claim that Warner going HD DVD exclusive would not be a big deal, but in reality the ball is in Warner's court right now and whatever side they pick will most definitely become the winner.

I will stand with you and this decision. Where Warner goes so do I. I was considering dual today at CC. These stories keep me red. BUT, if Warner goes exclusive blu then I will go dual and drop red when it's dead. Warner has that much pull. They have GOT to be smiling at all of the "promotional considerations" being thrown at them at the moment.

I kind of doubt Warner will drop Blu-Ray support for a few reasons:

1. New Line Cinema's stance with Region Coding

2. I don't know if Warner cares, but personally if I was them then I would be ticked at Paramount because Paramount said that Transformers was the best selling Hi-Def title on any format, when it turns out Paramount was lying.

3. Warner has announced movies for Blu-Ray (Harry Potter 1-5, Twister, Oceans 11-13 etc.)

4. Warner Home Video joined the Blu-Ray promotion group in France. (Which was kind of weird because they joined a promotion group where all the other members are saying: HD DVD is crap, buy Blu-Ray. I guess they just want to promote Blu-Ray to increase sells of their movies on the Blu-Ray format. And increase interest in Hi-Def overall)

5. 300 sold a crapload on Blu-Ray.

Though I doubt they will be dropping HD DVD support because:

1. They would look kind of stupid with some of their movies only on HD DVD.

2. Same as reason 3 above.

BTW they have said that they are watching Q4 sales very closely (Their President said it, I will get the article if anyone wants it) so it would look odd if they suddenly changed in that stance. And plus it's Warner, so they will have to think about everything 20 billion times before they do anything.

Plus remember that Warner was given the same offer Viacom got, but they rejected it. They won't change their stance until CES 2008 at the earliest. Anybody who thinks they are going to go HD DVD or Blu-Ray exclusive before that is being delusional at best. No offense to anybody, but it's the truth. ;)

cause pento said so? :rolleyes:...give me a break :cool:


OK, he's a BD insider, he and others in the business have stated this on numerous occasions on the Blu-ray insiders thread.

But if that's not good enough for you fine, return to the speculation.

I'd like to hear more from the cute guy Warner rep, who was a little into his cups and whose mascara was running. I wonder what he's doing for www.halloweek.ca? ;)

But seriously ... the more players are in the market, the more likely it is for any studio to want to provide content for both in the interim. It makes sense to me that Warner would continue to release Blu-ray through 2008 but strongly favour HD DVD. If I were Warner I would not be working on any serious Profile 1.1 discs until the profile was out in 2 or 3 players AND the PS3 -- I'd let Sony Pictures take the hit on the early bugs on that one.

Similarly, it's not credible to me that Disney will remain exclusive much past CES 2008 as they have always said interactivity was their deepest concern and HD DVD has been delivering that for six months; Blu-ray is at least another six months away (again, unless PS3 can be retrofitted easily).

Fox doesn't seem terribly committed to extra features; and Sony Pictures could become "the last man on earth" in this battle.

And you do have to wonder where Blu-ray is in these events ... surely Samsung, Sony or Panasonic have a vested interest in promoting their stuff with releases like Harry Potter?

I also will side with whoever WB chooses.....Why? Because I'll be forced to cause the format that loses WB will most likely die.

I doubt Disney and Fox will go neutral. Remember the Target announcement in July? Toshiba tried to cunter by saying that the Blu-Ray endcaps were only being put up because Sony and three studio partners paid Target a "jaw-dropping sum". Disney is also co-funding the magical Blu-Ray tour along with Panasonic. Who took the hit on the Disney BOGO? Face it, both of those studios have invested way to much into Blu-Ray to back out now. And you know how paranoid Fox is about piracy, and Blu-Ray's security is better. I don't want to be mean, but it's the truth.

That's because unlike the Blu Ray fanboys, HD DVD fanboys are not mouth-lathered fanatic pitbulls at every comment made by anyone. :D

:rolleyes:






~~~On topic...
If Warner went HD DVD exclusive, it would just seal the fate of mandatory format neutrality for consumers.

I also will side with whoever WB chooses.....Why? Because I'll be forced to cause the format that loses WB will most likely die.

If by "die" you mean continuing to make a fortune off Box office and DVD sales, and then switch to the winning format later if HDM still appeals to them.

OK, he's a BD insider, he and others in the business have stated this on numerous occasions on the Blu-ray insiders thread.

But if that's not good enough for you fine, return to the speculation.

A) In my world pento n talk have 0 credibility.(HD PiP, revenue/sold units and so on)

B) I'm not speculating anything ;)

It really irrates me when people say WB wont go exclusive because.....

"300 sold a crap load on Blu Ray"

"WBs movies have sold much better on blu ray"

"WB is making a killing with both Blu Ray and HD DVD"

You guys need to realize how few these high def discs are selling compared to DVDs. Right now its pocket change to them(studios). Transformers sold 50 times (give or take) more dvds than HD DVDs so far. Some of you really think WB is going to take huge loses going HD DVD exclusive? In my opinion the disc sales are almost completely irrelevant as of this point. Something to really get excited about though is a $200 HD DVD player. That is what the studios should be thinking about right now.

It really irrates me when people say WB wont go exclusive because.....

"300 sold a crap load on Blu Ray"

"WBs movies have sold much better on blu ray"

"WB is making a killing with both Blu Ray and HD DVD"

You guys need to realize how few these high def discs are selling compared to DVDs. Right now its pocket change to them(studios). Transformers sold 50 times (give or take) more dvds than HD DVDs so far. Some of you really think WB is going to take huge loses going HD DVD exclusive? In my opinion the disc sales are almost completely irrelevant as of this point. Something to really get excited about though is a $200 HD DVD player. That is what the studios should be thinking about right now.

this is so true...

Its possible just maybe that WB is looking at a bigger picture then just the loss of a few thousand initial BD sales should they go HD DVD exclusive.

Universal are going Blu-ray exclusive in Q1 2008.

Proof?

Lackluster HD-DVD sales, mediocre Q4 line-up, HD-DVD's biggest ever title failing to win a week and and finally Universal visiting Blu-ray facilities.

Easy isn't it!
Universal will never go BD exclusive nor will they ever go neutral. They are HD DVD & DVD only.

It really irrates me when people say WB wont go exclusive because.....

"300 sold a crap load on Blu Ray"

"WBs movies have sold much better on blu ray"

"WB is making a killing with both Blu Ray and HD DVD"

You guys need to realize how few these high def discs are selling compared to DVDs. Right now its pocket change to them(studios). Transformers sold 50 times (give or take) more dvds than HD DVDs so far. Some of you really think WB is going to take huge loses going HD DVD exclusive? In my opinion the disc sales are almost completely irrelevant as of this point. Something to really get excited about though is a $200 HD DVD player. That is what the studios should be thinking about right now.

Paramount Blu-Ray titles were selling more than the HD DVD versions (in most cases with a few exceptions like MI:III which sold more on HD DVD, Norbit sold over the 2:1 ratio HD:BD)

I know that is an inconvenience for the Blu-Ray owners who always bring up 300.

Universal will never go BD exclusive nor will they ever go neutral. They are HD DVD & DVD only.

I FULLY agree 100%

My take on this Warner going exclusive thing is by making this exclusive move before the Christmas Holiday Season, Warner can concentrate on only two formats aggressively (DVD & HD DVD). This guarantees full standardized format compatibility with none of this substandard crap (BD = unstandardized) going on right now which is resulting in delays & such. FOX & Disney already issued so many cancelations & delays with BD movies. I think this has a lot to do with all this profile stuff IMO.

I also think Warner is sick of this format war. Clearly this format was is the cause for extremely slow Hi def adoption, and if Warner thinks they can turn the tables around by going HD DVD Exclusive, (Especially this Christmas Holiday) then they would because this will spell much better profits in the near future to come. The sooner this war can end the better it would be for everybody including Studios.

Just my take on this,
Paramount Blu-Ray titles were selling more than the HD DVD versions (in most cases with a few exceptions like MI:III which sold more on HD DVD, Norbit sold over the 2:1 ratio HD:BD)
What's the point in selling more BD films if you are not making a profit? For every HD DVD a studio sells, they need to sell at least 5 BD movies to equal in profit. Studios lose a lot of money on Blu-Ray. And this Disney Buy One, Get one Free thingy they had to offset the Transformers release, Disney lost their shirt Big Time, at the point that it turned out to greatly not worth it to them.

this is so true...

Its possible just maybe that WB is looking at a bigger picture then just the loss of a few thousand initial BD sales should they go HD DVD exclusive.

Exactly!


Universal will never go BD exclusive nor will they ever go neutral. They are HD DVD & DVD only.

I agree with you there, however if they did go Blu Ray, that would probably be the end for HD DVD

I FULLY agree 100%
Cool, and to add, they are selling a dump load of DVD's anyway. Why on earth would they want to go and support a un-standardized product?

Just want to add that I also agree with everything you just said Super XP

If it's true about the 31st and they go exclusive the game is over for BR. Think about it $149-$199 Hd-DVD player (Walmart A2's and Venturer everywhere else)BR could not and willnot recover.

Not quite, But it will initiate the beginning of the end.

Makes sense if they are going to announce something it will be before CES in January. Fact is if they wait until january it'll be pretty conspicuous when suddenly their titles aren't being released on Blu-Ray. (because the membership has to be paid before they can).

Exactly!

I agree with you there, however if they did go Blu Ray, that would probably be the end for HD DVD
Yes, I agree. IMO I don't see any tangible reason why Warner would ever go BD exclusive. The only way people are going to adopt the Hi Def concept is if player sales become competitive with DVD players. HD DVD is the only format that is close in price vs. DVD.

And to add, this HD format really has nothing to do with HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray, it’s more like HD DVD/BD vs. DVD. And right now DVD is killing both by at least 1000:1 ratio. So, it’s a great advantage that HD DVD costs much cheaper then BD stand alones.

Yes, I agree. IMO I don't see any tangible reason why Warner would ever go BD exclusive. The only way people are going to adopt the Hi Def concept is if player sales become competitive with DVD players. HD DVD is the only format that is close in price vs. DVD.

And to add, this HD format really has nothing to do with HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray, it’s more like HD DVD/BD vs. DVD. And right now DVD is killing both by at least 1000:1 ratio. So, it’s a great advantage that HD DVD costs much cheaper then BD stand alones.

agreed again. I think people are interested in high def, but the price and format war are holding them back. With a price point like this, I can imagine a lot of people will start adopting high def, but not Blu Ray with their price points.

I can see the headline now. A Nightmare on Blu Street" Ding Dong the Blu Witch is Dead?

This past week I was at a WB Press Event for their Q4 titles. The Toshiba Team was on hand I interviewed both them and WB about Q4.

Off the record I asked if anything would be happening on the 31st concerning the possible expiration of the BD contract with WB and they both danced around the question, but one of them said that something interested... "If I were a betting person, which I am, I would bet something...." then I was interrupted and missed the rest of it. Read in to it what you will, but my personal belief is something is going to happen or be announced come the 31st.

Also, in the WB portion he gave me an exclusive about a title coming in January. Check it out here.

http://www.eyecravedvd.com/article.php?story=20071025104926326

It seems extremely odd they would dance around the subject of renewing membership to the BDA. Why wouldn't they just say we by no means will be dropping bluray, unless something is in the works. 3 business days to find out. Odd they would renew so late if they do.

It is my understanding that Warner has the largest catalog of films in Hollywood, which if true can't be ignored.


They do and the the studios with the second and third most films are already HD DVD exclusive; Universal and Paramount as my signature indicates.

Going back to when I bought into HD DVD catalog size has always been a consideration for me. There was a time when Fox and Disney would've swayed me Blu, but I looked at me DVD collection, realized most of my titles were Warner and Universal releases and did some research. It was then that I realized Universal has a bigger catalog than Fox, Disney and Lion's Gate COMBINED. The content is king argument for the Blu-bois has always been a lie because HD DVD has always had the advantage in exclusive catalog titles, that became worse when Paramount jumped ship and it will become unbearable (for the Blu-bois) if Warner follow suit.

It's a Will Smith movie. The tag line is "The Last Man on Earth is not Alone"

Vampire type of movie, based on a Novella that I just finished reading the other day.

Could be good, or it could go south, no guarantee.

FWIW

I was told to look for some major pro HD DVD announcement mid next week.

I was figuring that was the Wal-Mart an Circuit City $198 HD A2 carriage, but a Warner announcement would certainly qualify.

I would just think it would be unlikely before the 4Q stats are in.

But if Warner is crunching some numbers, and talking to CE companies and retailers.......

IF this is true I can see a few website forums demanding boycotts of MS, Wal Mart and Warner.:D

It's game over if Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive. Not immediately of course, but if you've got Universal, Warner, and Paramount ALL pledging themselves to HD-DVD exclusively for a decent amount of time, it's not a matter of if, it's when.

Sony will at that point essentially be the only MAIN Blu-Ray supporter. Disney barely releases anything, and Fox seems to be unsure of the whole thing as it is anyway.

Debate it all you want, but if Warner goes red, it's game over.

Maybe there is also a matter of Sony not being prepared to continue Blu-ray replication subsidies beyond a certain point.

I was told Paramount execs were irritated that Sony was giving Disney priority in Blu-ray BD50 replication .

The Paramount announcement was near some sort of anniversary of the first Paramount Blu-ray release IIRC....

FWIW

I was told to look for some major pro HD DVD announcement mid next week.

I was figuring that was the Wal-Mart an Circuit City $198 HD A2 carriage, but a Warner announcement would certainly qualify.

I would just think it would be unlikely before the 4Q stats are in.

But if Warner is crunching some numbers, and talking to CE companies and retailers.......


Let's just also assume that Microsoft paid Warner $200 Million (2 undisclosed AOL/Time Warner exces told us that :p), also try to get some class action lawsuits going, maybe make up a Bill Hunt rant/editorial, and get them all out of the way for next week? ;)

Ding Dong the Blu Witch is Dead?

:D :D :D :D

Let's just also assume that Microsoft paid Warner $200 Million (2 undisclosed AOL/Time Warner exces told us that :p), also try to get some class action lawsuits going, maybe make up a Bill Hunt rant/editorial, and get them all out of the way for next week? ;)

Why don't we assume that all studios are going to drop HD formats altogether and go DVD exclusive because everyone knows that's where the money is anyway...

These "I talked to a guy who knows a guy who said on the down low" threads are useless for anything except baiting fanatics.

Why don't we assume that all studios are going to drop HD formats altogether and go DVD exclusive because everyone knows that's where the money is anyway...

These "I talked to a guy who knows a guy who said on the down low" threads are useless for anything except baiting fanatics.

Until, that is, one of these threads end up being true....

Why don't we assume that all studios are going to drop HD formats altogether and go DVD exclusive because everyone knows that's where the money is anyway...

These "I talked to a guy who knows a guy who said on the down low" threads are useless for anything except baiting fanatics.

...and for fanatics flaming fanatics? dude relax, seriously though, there's no proof, everyone here knows this, it's all assumption, you can either have some fun with it, or dismiss it, no need to attack anybody.

Warner now picking a side and dropping the other would no doubt start the spinning of the war ending wheels, nothing short of the dropped side somehow grabbing exclusive rights to the LOTR trilogy would save it - I still feel that is a massive weapon in this war, whichever side lands that (prolly both at this point though) is gonna be sittin' happy...I hope its HD DVD that Warner sides with, but nothing at this point would surprise me.

And along with Warner come New Line and HBO exclusive as well.

All I know is I am definitely not going to get my hopes up. I've learned my lesson already when it comes to believing rumors and speculation.

It seems extremely odd they would dance around the subject of renewing membership to the BDA. Why wouldn't they just say we by no means will be dropping bluray, unless something is in the works. 3 business days to find out. Odd they would renew so late if they do.

That is odd. Maybe they're waiting for a kick-back from Sony to renew their membership.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Over the last few days a ton of A2's have been sold since the price is dropping to $197 at retailers all over. Currently CC has it and there is a $40 off of 200 coupon floating around for web orders. Not to mention all of the xbox drives that flew off of shelves at Best Buy since Sunday. More players in homes = more movies sold. Studios can't continue to ignore HD DVD considering the huge amount of players being sold; even if they don't go exclusive they end up being neutral. I know personally there are alot of disney titles I want to buy but won't pick up a BR player just for the priviledge.

I am just ignoring all this speculation and enjoying the very real Walmart deal. BTW, if you are a studio, you don't want to do anything to upset Walmart.

It's game over if Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive. Not immediately of course, but if you've got Universal, Warner, and Paramount ALL pledging themselves to HD-DVD exclusively for a decent amount of time, it's not a matter of if, it's when.

Sony will at that point essentially be the only MAIN Blu-Ray supporter. Disney barely releases anything, and Fox seems to be unsure of the whole thing as it is anyway.

Debate it all you want, but if Warner goes red, it's game over.

Nah, if WB went neutral, then things would be pretty even in terms of studio support. As a BD supporter, I wouldn't want to see this happen, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

The biggest player here is still Disney, and they have been releasing. Fox + major hollywood directors still favor BD. I think either way, dual format players will become the norm before anything else.

Maybe there is also a matter of Sony not being prepared to continue Blu-ray replication subsidies beyond a certain point.

I was told Paramount execs were irritated that Sony was giving Disney priority in Blu-ray BD50 replication .

The Paramount announcement was near some sort of anniversary of the first Paramount Blu-ray release IIRC....
It also does not help Sony's money problems. I mean, ever since the BD release, Sony has been bleeding money out of their teeth. Sony relied way too much on the PS3 which IMO was the worst move Sony ever did by adding a BD player to the PS3. You can't sell a game console & a expensive BD player to people that are looking to game.

It seems extremely odd they would dance around the subject of renewing membership to the BDA. Why wouldn't they just say we by no means will be dropping bluray, unless something is in the works. 3 business days to find out. Odd they would renew so late if they do.

Hey, why don't you start a thread in the Blu-Ray section asking them if they know for sure if WB has resigned with the BDA??

I'm sure you'll get MANY helpful replies!!! LOL!!

Nah, if WB went neutral, then things would be pretty even in terms of studio support. As a BD supporter, I wouldn't want to see this happen, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

The biggest player here is still Disney, and they have been releasing. Fox + major hollywood directors still favor BD. I think either way, dual format players will become the norm before anything else.

You're a funny guy Goatspeed. Things would not be "pretty equal" in terms of studio support. As it stands right now it looks like HD DVD will have the advantage in date and day releases going into Q1 08. Blu-ray is already at a massive disadvantage when it comes to catalog titles; add Warner's over 7000 films and it becomes downright ridiculous.

P.S. Disney is a player, but they are in NO WAY the biggest player; based on Catalog titles and number of films released they are about the 5th player and that's only when you include their sub-studios. Disney themselves has not released anything my kids have been interested in since The Incredibles. Then there is the fact that kids don't make purchasing decisions regarding CE equipment in most families.

Everything goes back to that HD DVD ad filled with Warner titles with the famous quote "Take the red pill"

WB going HD only wont end the format war

Fox and Disney going neutral would be a much bigger deal than WB going HD only

however, WB going HD only would be a HUGE win for the HD DVD camp

You know, most people forget, too, that if Warner were to go HD exclusive, every title already released would also become exclusive once BD supplies ran out.

That is odd. Maybe they're waiting for a kick-back from Sony to renew their membership.

HD media is selling so poorly that a hundred-million-dollar "exclusive marketing incentive" will make more money than actually selling discs. 300 made WB a couple million on Blu (at best), and no other titles came close to those numbers. I doubt WB has made more than $20 million on all the HD media they've ever sold on both formats (combined).

I'm sure that Universal got a kickback as did Disney/Fox did as well. The only studios who went without them were WB and initially Paramount (who probably thought sales were going to be much higher). I'm guessing they realized the sales were terrible, so instead went for the pay-out. Also, I'm not being critical of any studio... I'm sure the shareholders would have wanted that. WB will take an offer, it's just a matter of who makes a better deal.

The wild card is Sony. I'm not sure how much they are willing to spend. Toshiba and MS are *very* healthy right now. Howard Stringer has done a whole lot to repair the ailing divisions at Sony, and I'm curious if he wants to pick a fight on multiple fronts since his company just came back from huge losses at most of their divisions.

They need to worry about BD and salvaging the PS3 as a gaming system. I don't know if they've got the resources to do both. At this point MS is profitable on the 360, and they only need to protect their projected future iHD revenues. I'm guessing Sony is more concerned about the PS3 as a gaming device. If they were fully backing BD they would subsidize the electronics division and match Toshiba's price (obviously they are subsidizing the PS3, but the mass-market doesn't use gaming systems to play movies -- obviously this benefits BD, but I really think that has only been a fringe benefit).

Nah, if WB went neutral, then things would be pretty even in terms of studio support. As a BD supporter, I wouldn't want to see this happen, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.


Bluray would die overnight and be forever known as the "PS3 movie format".

Disney didn't release on DVD at first either and DVD took off like wildfire.

Warner is the key. If Warner goes to one side, it's over for the other.

Hey, why don't you start a thread in the Blu-Ray section asking them if they know for sure if WB has resigned with the BDA??

I'm sure you'll get MANY helpful replies!!! LOL!!

As I am sure you know I did that. I figured they would know and would have the links to prove. So far they have come up empty.

Warner is the key. If Warner goes to one side, it's over for the other.
I don't believe this. I think the installed base is starting to get too big. Plus everyone assumes that only Paramount has a contracted exclusivity window. I'm willing to bet that Disney and Fox can't actually release HD DVD for at least another year or more due to an agreement similar to what Paramount signed. Plus Sony probably wouldn't release HD DVDs even if they were the only one supporting BD. We'd have to get out of the "early adopter phase" to the point where shareholders would complain about the lost revenue (look how long it took them to dump ATRAC, etc).

I think we're going to be stuck needing two or dual-format players. Dual format players have the potential to be reasonable, but everyone building them is packing in high-end features.

If someone wanted to build one without bells and whistles (no HQV, no analog outs, el cheapo remote, Chinese made, etc) it could probably be done for a "Wal Mart Price."

Nah, if WB went neutral, then things would be pretty even in terms of studio support. As a BD supporter, I wouldn't want to see this happen, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

The biggest player here is still Disney, and they have been releasing. Fox + major hollywood directors still favor BD. I think either way, dual format players will become the norm before anything else.

Fox isn't at the helm with the war, and all the directors in the world don't matter what they prefer. Unless they're Lucas or Spielberg, they have no control over the format released for their films.

Actually, an announcement from WB on exclusive support for HD DVD would be perfect timing. The sales of units on both sides is so small that dropping BR would not make a difference because their action would sell a hell of a lot of HD DVD players at $199.00 or less.

A lot of folks would see this move as a very bad sign that something is very wrong in the BR camp for two major studios to drop the format so close to the holidays. People that may have considered a BR player will probably buy HD DVD instead and further increase software sales.

This would convince fence sitters that HD DVD is here to stay and make them feel comfortable in the purchase of the now cheap players.

The WalMart move, which I don't think anyone expected, and WB not renewing this close to the deadline is very interesting when looked at together.

Who knows, but now would be the perfect time to end this war and WB and WalMart can do just that!

Damn... Is it Oct 31st yet?!

I don't believe this. I think the installed base is starting to get too big.

You are forgetting that what.. 80% of the installed base is PS3 owners? I could easily see BD becoming a niche format that only plays on PS3s and anyone that still has an old 1.0 player kicking around.

Well if Warner is planning (IF) leaving BD, they should do it before Christmas. That would make the biggest effect.

But I wouldnt be suprised in case Warner continues to release BDs.

I think if Warner does go exclusive it will be a year length due to being frustrated with BLU RAY still not being able to do IME with 2.0 not being ready. Which I hopes happen I am format neutral I just bought a used Sony Bsp 300 but I favor HD I do not like the BDA business approach. I think the exclusive date would start in Jan. What would New Line do they favor BLU Ray with new releases because they have region codeing and HD DVD does not. Which BLU Ray exclusive studio would go neutral first with Warner leaving. FOX are heavy against non region codeing so I do not see them going HD DVD until the last possible moment but gives Blu ray the least support among exclusive studios. Movies like the Dark Knight, 10,000 BC, I AM Legend, being HD DVD exclusive would be huge along with catlog titles like Heat and Shawshank.

The best thing about owning players from both formats is that you dont have to worry about theese things.

Actually, an announcement from WB on exclusive support for HD DVD would be perfect timing. The sales of units on both sides is so small that dropping BR would not make a difference because their action would sell a hell of a lot of HD DVD players at $199.00 or less.

The WalMart move, which I don't think anyone expected, and WB not renewing this close to the deadline is very interesting when looked at together.

Who knows, but now would be the perfect time to end this war and WB and WalMart can do just that!

"Warner: It’s really hard to handicap. I can’t tell, which side, if any, will win. Right now it’s like a Mexican standoff. If the consumer continues to support both formats, the industry will as well. It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware. If they sell through everything they ship, and it’s a big number at the price points that are coming out, then I think [HD DVD] will be around for a long time. If they don’t, then it could go Blu-ray’s way. But Toshiba is getting very, very aggressive on pricing, which is putting pressure on Blu-ray player manufacturers to bring prices down. As a content company we just want more hardware in the homes. So what ever drives more hardware is good to see. Right now it looks like there is price pressure on both sides because there are two formats — more pressure than there would be if there was only one format. So, for our interests, more razors means we’ll sell more razor blades down the road."

It is all starting to make a lot of sense now.

WalMart selling sub $200 HD DVD players says to me that this thing is just about over.

Toshiba/Paramount have been flooding the air with HD DVD ads during Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football, The World Series, etc. I have also seen Sears television ads mentioning HD DVD players within the past few days.

People will soon see HD DVD players at WalMart, CC, Best Buy, Sams, Costco, Sears or wherever for ~$150-$199, I think they are going to be a very hot item this holiday season.

In realitly if this were to happen this really couldnt be better timing.
1. This would dwarf spider-man as far as excitment goes.
2. This would happen the same week that the new $400 ps3 comes out which I have on pre-order.
If this news really is true, I would have to give some very serious thought as to whether I would want to go through with getting the ps3 or not. I'm just glad that if this news is true, I'll know before the ps3 comes out.

1. This would dwarf spider-man as far as excitment goes.

It would certainly dwarf the BOGO offer that BD did during Transformers week.

"Warner: It’s really hard to handicap. I can’t tell, which side, if any, will win. Right now it’s like a Mexican standoff. If the consumer continues to support both formats, the industry will as well. It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware. If they sell through everything they ship, and it’s a big number at the price points that are coming out, then I think [HD DVD] will be around for a long time. If they don’t, then it could go Blu-ray’s way. But Toshiba is getting very, very aggressive on pricing, which is putting pressure on Blu-ray player manufacturers to bring prices down. As a content company we just want more hardware in the homes. So what ever drives more hardware is good to see. Right now it looks like there is price pressure on both sides because there are two formats — more pressure than there would be if there was only one format. So, for our interests, more razors means we’ll sell more razor blades down the road."

It is all starting to make a lot of sense now.

Yeah and he was referring to stand alone set-top players not game consoles, which WB feels cannot be counted on for sales.

WB exclusive and $198.00 players or less = war over!

Disney and Fox would go neutral almost immediately leaving Sony the only major studio supporting BR.

Dream Scenario...I can only hope. Then I can get an American FF, X-Men, etc. :) Keep buying HD-DVD!

James

Never understood why a number of studios support a vertically-integrated competitor. Fox is fixated on BD+, but the rest of them?

What's a 'vertically integrated competitor'? And what would a 'horizontally integrated competitor' be?

James

What's a 'vertically integrated competitor'? And what would a 'horizontally integrated competitor' be?

James

My guess is Sony. They make movies they make players for the movies, and they own most of the replication plants.

My take on this Warner going exclusive thing is by making this exclusive move before the Christmas Holiday Season, Warner can concentrate on only two formats aggressively (DVD & HD DVD). This guarantees full standardized format compatibility with none of this substandard crap (BD = unstandardized) going on right now which is resulting in delays & such. FOX & Disney already issued so many cancellations & delays with BD movies. I think this has a lot to do with all this profile stuff IMO.

I also think Warner is sick of this format war. Clearly this format was is the cause for extremely slow Hi def adoption, and if Warner thinks they can turn the tables around by going HD DVD Exclusive, (Especially this Christmas Holiday) then they would because this will spell much better profits in the near future to come. The sooner this war can end the better it would be for everybody including Studios.

Just my take on this,

What's the point in selling more BD films if you are not making a profit? For every HD DVD a studio sells, they need to sell at least 5 BD movies to equal in profit. Studios lose a lot of money on Blu-Ray. And this Disney Buy One, Get one Free thingy they had to offset the Transformers release, Disney lost their shirt Big Time, at the point that it turned out to greatly not worth it to them.

So...what's the margin on HD-DVD vs BRay?

James

You are forgetting that what.. 80% of the installed base is PS3 owners? I could easily see BD becoming a niche format that only plays on PS3s and anyone that still has an old 1.0 player kicking around.

Like UMD on the PSP. Ever saw any other device outside of sony, which can play UMDs ? Think about it. Sony is totaly insane. Develloping mediacarriers noone except them would support. They repeat their history of failure all over again: Beta, Minidisc, Memory Stick, UMD.....

What must be taken into considerations regarding Warner going red is the fact, that the Wallmart pricepoint is beefing up the installer base in households a lot. So demand for HD-DVD will rise. Reproduction lines for HD-DVD can be simply converted from DVD lines with small investments, while BD production lines need somewhat a million to be set up.

So when highdef market is rising, investment needs for reproduction are eating up disc profit. Not to mention the higher programming costs for BD-J and lower replication yields, which are right now allready minimizing profit on every BD compared to it's HD-DVD counterpart.

As I am sure you know I did that. I figured they would know and would have the links to prove. So far they have come up empty.

Yeah, I did know already. They roasted you, you flamebait guy you!!

And I got called BIG BROTHER for trying to "defend" your thread!!!

lol

IMHO Warner has what Sony lacks - poise. People listen to Warner, not to Sony.

Honestly...Betamax, minidisc, memory stick, UMD, Blu-Ray...what is it about Sony that they have to go start these format wars?

James

Sony is like some wild-eyed dictator that wants the whole world to be theirs........ALL theirs (insert evil laugh). But if they would study history, it is the freedom fighters that win every time!

"Welcome, to the real world".

Chris....

WalMart selling sub $200 HD DVD players says to me that this thing is just about over.

Toshiba/Paramount have been flooding the air with HD DVD ads during Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football, The World Series, etc. I have also seen Sears television ads mentioning HD DVD players within the past few days.

People will soon see HD DVD players at WalMart, CC, Best Buy, Sams, Costco, Sears or wherever for ~$150-$199, I think they are going to be a very hot item this holiday season.

When I went into Best Buy, to buy my X-Box add-on, so I could get the free movies, I saw 3 older men buying the HD-A30. I also saw 2 others buying the add-on. According to the manager of the media department, they had 50 copies of Heroes when the promo started, he also said he has written over 100 rainchecks. He said it has been like that in EVERY store in Southern California. I'd be willing to bet Best Buy (nationwide) moved close to 100,000 HD DVD players in the last week.

I know hardware price points have been beat to death but in this first Chinese player anouncement back in March, http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/25/meet-the-venture-shd7000-hd-dvd-player/, the key is not so much the Venturer player anouncement but the section talking about what it took for DVD to finally overtake VHS in that format war. Mass acceptance of either format depends on hardware sales and most of middle class America will not and can not afford to upgrade to HD for an additional $400 when purchasing their first HD tv at Wal Mart, but when the option is in the $100-$150 range it becomes a definate possibility. I think Paramount's decision was heavily based on this and if W.B.'s goes HD DVD exclusive hardware prices will be a major factor. To semi quote a former President, It's the economy and the price stupid.

WalMart selling sub $200 HD DVD players says to me that this thing is just about over.

Toshiba/Paramount have been flooding the air with HD DVD ads during Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football, The World Series, etc. I have also seen Sears television ads mentioning HD DVD players within the past few days.

People will soon see HD DVD players at WalMart, CC, Best Buy, Sams, Costco, Sears or wherever for ~$150-$199, I think they are going to be a very hot item this holiday season.

This is so weird because I have seen every Sunday and Monday night football game this year and didn't see these ads. I Tivo every NFL game that I don't watch live.
I envision a fair number of people buying these bargain priced hd dvd players and taking them home to find out that the picture quality difference is next to nothing on their inexpensive regular definition tvs. Then, if they haven't already, they're going to notice that the movies are roughly $30 bucks a piece and decide that if they want to keep the player they will just rent the hd dvds from Blockbuster. Next they will go to their local BB and look around. Eventually, after working up a mild irritation, they will approach the counter and ask the sales associate who will then reply that they don't stock hd dvds, but instead carry blu-ray.
I envision a large portion of the cheap hd dvd players being returned to wally world which will end up costing Toshiba more money to repackage the players and ship them back out to maybe repeat the cycle.
Blu-ray has achieved software sales dominance for the whole year despite Toshiba always having the lower priced player.
The event the video covered was an hd dvd co-sponsored event. The WB spokesperson was a very low level PR guy, don't tell me that wasn't obvious. There were maybe 75 people there. This means nothing except that at the current time WB supports both formats.

Honestly...Betamax, minidisc, memory stick, UMD, Blu-Ray...what is it about Sony that they have to go start these format wars?

And why do people keep falling for it? And why will Sony do it again? How about Magenta-Ray 12, the ultimate, this time, we can't fail!

I envision a fair number of people buying these bargain priced hd dvd players and taking them home to find out that the picture quality difference is next to nothing on their inexpensive regular definition tvs. Then, if they haven't already, they're going to notice that the movies are roughly $30 bucks a piece and decide that if they want to keep the player they will just rent the hd dvds from Blockbuster. Next they will go to their local BB and look around. Eventually, after working up a mild irritation, they will approach the counter and ask the sales associate who will then reply that they don't stock hd dvds, but instead carry blu-ray.
I envision a large portion of the cheap hd dvd players being returned to wally world which will end up costing Toshiba more money to repackage the players and ship them back out to maybe repeat the cycle.
Blu-ray has achieved software sales dominance for the whole year despite Toshiba always having the lower priced player.
The event the video covered was an hd dvd co-sponsored event. The WB spokesperson was a very low level PR guy, don't tell me that wasn't obvious. There were maybe 75 people there. This means nothing except that at the current time WB supports both formats.


So what would be diff with a Blu Ray player purchase. With both they can still watch their SD DVD on their SD TV and would be no diff then what they had before. Why would they want to return them since they knew before hand that this is a HDM player they are getting and to get the best out of it they will need to get a HD TV, regardless which format they get.

The event the video covered was an hd dvd co-sponsored event. The WB spokesperson was a very low level PR guy, don't tell me that wasn't obvious. There were maybe 75 people there. This means nothing except that at the current time WB supports both formats.

True, but Warner doesn't have to pay attention to Blockbuster or BB, these guys will stock any item Warner chooses. I imagine even Disney, Fox and Sony bow their heads to Warner :D

So what would be diff with a Blu Ray player purchase. With both they can still watch their SD DVD on their SD TV and would be no diff then what they had before. Why would they want to return them since they knew before hand that this is a HDM player they are getting and to get the best out of it they will need to get a HD TV, regardless which format they get.

The only point I'm making is that the average Walmart shopper who buys one of these players impulsively b/c of the price probably isn't going to be well informed about the movie prices or that it is meant for owners of hdtvs. Blockbuster actually asks people before renting blu-rays if they have a blu-ray player, b/c the average person doesn't know much about either of the formats. I actually heard someone say before that they were going to buy a blu-ray tv instead of an hd dvd one.
I didn't infer that they would migrate to blu-ray, but rather I would predict that they would wipe their hands clean of the whole hi-def situation. I'm not trying to spin this into something positive for blu-ray.
Price is almost never the main determinant in the outcome of the electronics market, just look at the Ipod.

This is so weird because I have seen every Sunday and Monday night football game this year and didn't see these ads. I Tivo every NFL game that I don't watch live.
I envision a fair number of people buying these bargain priced hd dvd players and taking them home to find out that the picture quality difference is next to nothing on their inexpensive regular definition tvs. Then, if they haven't already, they're going to notice that the movies are roughly $30 bucks a piece and decide that if they want to keep the player they will just rent the hd dvds from Blockbuster. Next they will go to their local BB and look around. Eventually, after working up a mild irritation, they will approach the counter and ask the sales associate who will then reply that they don't stock hd dvds, but instead carry blu-ray.
I envision a large portion of the cheap hd dvd players being returned to wally world which will end up costing Toshiba more money to repackage the players and ship them back out to maybe repeat the cycle.
Blu-ray has achieved software sales dominance for the whole year despite Toshiba always having the lower priced player.
The event the video covered was an hd dvd co-sponsored event. The WB spokesperson was a very low level PR guy, don't tell me that wasn't obvious. There were maybe 75 people there. This means nothing except that at the current time WB supports both formats.

Bluray's dominance is due to one thing and one thing only, THE PS3! They sold the hell out of them on release and those initial sales have carried them with a few small spikes of sales along the way. Selling millions of PS3's vs the slower but steady rise of HD DVD sales has been a mountain for HD DVD to climb, but they are doing it.. the little red format that could.

The Blurray fanboys can brag all they want about winning this year and they have that right, they have won. Do they think that the consumer is going to buy expensive BD players this holiday season? I guess they are counting on the $399 PS3 to carry them yet another year? I say, good luck on that. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=jessewallace;12036601]This is so weird because I have seen every Sunday and Monday night football game this year and didn't see these ads. I Tivo every NFL game that I don't watch live.
I envision a fair number of people buying these bargain priced hd dvd players and taking them home to find out that the picture quality difference is next to nothing on their inexpensive regular definition tvs. Then, if they haven't already, they're going to notice that the movies are roughly $30 bucks a piece and decide that if they want to keep the player they will just rent the hd dvds from Blockbuster. Next they will go to their local BB and look around. Eventually, after working up a mild irritation, they will approach the counter and ask the sales associate who will then reply that they don't stock hd dvds, but instead carry blu-ray.
I envision a large portion of the cheap hd dvd players being returned to wally world which will end up costing Toshiba more money to repackage the players and ship them back out to maybe repeat the cycle.
Blu-ray has achieved software sales dominance for the whole year despite Toshiba always having the lower priced player.
The event the video covered was an hd dvd co-sponsored event. The WB spokesperson was a very low level PR guy, don't tell me that wasn't obvious. There were maybe 75 people there. This means nothing except that at the current time WB supports both formats.[/QUOTE


Whatever you are smoking pass off to me because your visions are way out there.

Rob

You are forgetting that what.. 80% of the installed base is PS3 owners? I could easily see BD becoming a niche format that only plays on PS3s and anyone that still has an old 1.0 player kicking around.

And this is a point I think a lot of people miss. Remember that the VP of Warner video said that they targetted the PS3 demographic for 300?

Let's look beyond the happy face they put on when announcing that 300 sold 400,000 copies and twice as many were BD than HD DVD. Does anyone REALLY think Warner looked at the almost 2 million PS3's out there, and are REALLY happy they only sold about 250,000 copies of the movie to that segment of the "Blu-ray player base"?

On the other hand, the 150,000 units they sold on HD DVD, and the ones they are packing into the A3's are being sold to a higher percentage of the HD DVD userbase.

So what would Warner rather do? Put out movies and HOPE that the video game players buy it? Or decide to put their weight behind growing a format based on standalones where they can help increase the owner-base, which then will translate into more movie sales for them.

If they help HD DVD grow the user-base, then maybe this time 6 months from now when they bring out another blockbuster movie, it does 400,000 units on just one format.

It would be premature for WB to pick a side... the holiday season has not yet come in force and left. What if they picked the loser?

I have a gut feeling that they will at least wait until early next year to come to any conclusion... the same exact time frame that they supposedly pushed TotalHD discs to. They are hedging their bets, and I doubt they will change things right now.

Paramount was stupid (and greedy) to switch sides before the X-mas numbers were known for players and discs. I say stupid because if you read interviews with Alan Bell he clearly doesn't understand some of the finer points of the formats for him to have made these bald faced conclusions (sounds like someone who was bought and paid for by the HD-DVD group)... he constantly begs off certain technical questions stating he's not the right person to give those answers. Though, even then not all of their titles can be exclusively HD-DVD...

Dan

It would be premature for WB to pick a side... the holiday season has not yet come in force and left. What if they picked the loser?

I have a gut feeling that they will at least wait until early next year to come to any conclusion... the same exact time frame that they supposedly pushed TotalHD discs to. They are hedging their bets, and I doubt they will change things right now.

Paramount was stupid (and greedy) to switch sides before the X-mas numbers were known for players and discs. I say stupid because if you read interviews with Alan Bell he clearly doesn't understand some of the finer points of the formats for him to have made these bald faced conclusions (sounds like someone who was bought and paid for by the HD-DVD group)... he constantly begs off certain technical questions stating he's not the right person to give those answers. Though, even then not all of their titles can be exclusively HD-DVD...

Dan

If that helps you sleep better at night. So, is THAT the official BDA ' how to discredit Paramount' staregy for the week? :rolleyes:

I'm a hardcore HD DVD supporter but frankly I just don't see Warner switching sides at this point in time. October 31st will come and go as usual. I could see them taking a decision in Q1 2008 however, depending on the Q4 2007 results.

I'm a hardcore HD DVD supporter but frankly I just don't see Warner switching sides at this point in time. October 31st will come and go as usual. I could see them taking a decision in Q1 2008 however, depending on the Q4 2007 results.

I am in agreement with you. Although....the direction WB is going to go in is already decided. The only hope for BD is TotalHD disks now :)

It would be premature for WB to pick a side... the holiday season has not yet come in force and left. What if they picked the loser?

Some would argue that whatever WB picks becomes the defacto winner.

Yeah and he was referring to stand alone set-top players not game consoles, which WB feels cannot be counted on for sales.

Again, something the BD side ignores is that Warner is definitely interested in HD-DVD's IME and definitely concerned with the fact that the largest user base of BD is PS3 owners.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=921521&highlight=hdtv+conference+warner

"Warner - Dan Silverberg, VP of high definition media development for Warner Bros., calmed both sides by saying 300 was marketed heavily to PS3 owners, but “it’s dangerous to just rely on gamers. To be reliant on them is something I don’t think either camps wants to do."

"Warner has held off on releasing some titles on Blu-ray that are out on HD DVD, until Blu-ray hardware specs become unified and can universally support the same features. That’s something Microsoft’s Collins said HD DVD has over Blu-ray."

I'm a hardcore HD DVD supporter but frankly I just don't see Warner switching sides at this point in time. October 31st will come and go as usual. I could see them taking a decision in Q1 2008 however, depending on the Q4 2007 results.

Too late for anyone to change the course now. A little bird told us that the deal is already done, and the decision has already been made on WB's side.;)

so as someone who has no clue on how this stuff (membership in bda) works..

just out of curiosity...

if warner has already* manufactured the titles like harry potter/oceans/ on bd, and they do not renew, are they legally allowed or disallowed to sell them?

so as someone who has no clue on how this stuff (membership in bda) works..

just out of curiosity...

if warner has already* manufactured the titles like harry potter/oceans/ on bd, and they do not renew, are they legally allowed or disallowed to sell them?

Probably the kind of thing only someone on the inside would know, no idea if those types of things are about manufacturing, retailing or both, guessing the former.

It would be premature for WB to pick a side... the holiday season has not yet come in force and left. What if they picked the loser?

I have a gut feeling that they will at least wait until early next year to come to any conclusion... the same exact time frame that they supposedly pushed TotalHD discs to. They are hedging their bets, and I doubt they will change things right now.

What if they ALREADY picked sides a few months ago? Just waiting for their BDA contract to expire so they can formally announce it.

I said in another post in September that I felt a big secret was being kept. That Walmart wasn't stocking $199 Venturer players because they had inked a deal with Toshiba to sell A2's for $199. At the same time, they had already made a promise to Warner that they could get $199 HD-DVD players into Walmart before the holiday season (the retailer with the most sales of DVD media). They promised Warner X number if new player sales. Warner said "If you can do it, we're going to go exclusive and put an end to this silly war once and for all!" -- All of this would not be announced until the last minute because they don't want Sony/BDA to have any chance to counter it. They want to catch them off guard to ensure a quick and swift death.

Everyone also has to think about us custom installers out here. I work @ audiodimensions.net and within the past year our salesman have sold more blu-ray players than hd-dvd players by nearly 5 to 1. It's not because we don't like hd-dvd's it's just people already know about blu-ray and not hd-dvd's. I personaly own both formats so if one fails it wont hurt my feelings. I enjoy both formats equally but my concern is that the PS3 does have the potential to be an amazing gaming machine and your seeing that now, but if blu-ray fails where does that leave the PS3???

Everyone also has to think about us custom installers out here. I work @ audiodimensions.net and within the past year our salesman have sold more blu-ray players than hd-dvd players by nearly 5 to 1. It's not because we don't like hd-dvd's it's just people already know about blu-ray and not hd-dvd's. I personaly own both formats so if one fails it wont hurt my feelings. I enjoy both formats equally but my concern is that the PS3 does have the potential to be an amazing gaming machine and your seeing that now, but if blu-ray fails where does that leave the PS3???

I think the custom installer/high end HT market is very small when compared to the joe shmo Best Buy retail type market.

What ever the format the masses pick will win. The masses tend to be more concerned with price than anything else.

My take on this Warner going exclusive thing is by making this exclusive move before the Christmas Holiday Season, Warner can concentrate on only two formats aggressively (DVD & HD DVD). This guarantees full standardized format compatibility with none of this substandard crap (BD = unstandardized) going on right now which is resulting in delays & such. FOX & Disney already issued so many cancelations & delays with BD movies. I think this has a lot to do with all this profile stuff IMO.

I also think Warner is sick of this format war. Clearly this format was is the cause for extremely slow Hi def adoption, and if Warner thinks they can turn the tables around by going HD DVD Exclusive, (Especially this Christmas Holiday) then they would because this will spell much better profits in the near future to come. The sooner this war can end the better it would be for everybody including Studios.

Just my take on this,

What's the point in selling more BD films if you are not making a profit? For every HD DVD a studio sells, they need to sell at least 5 BD movies to equal in profit. Studios lose a lot of money on Blu-Ray. And this Disney Buy One, Get one Free thingy they had to offset the Transformers release, Disney lost their shirt Big Time, at the point that it turned out to greatly not worth it to them.

I hope that the WB does go exclusive to hd-dvd. It is the smart choice.

Never understood why a number of studios support a vertically-integrated competitor. Fox is fixated on BD+, but the rest of them?

Nail, meet hammer!

IMO, Paramount and Warner made tactical decisions in October 2005 to accept the BDAs (AKA Sony) offer to support BD. Nothing to lose, everything to gain if PS3 delivers and HD DVD stumbles out of the gate.

Fast forward to today. Its time to get strategic.
1. BD is vulnerable, HD DVD remains very viable.
2. Does WHV feel the same way about DVD as the BDA?
3. Do they feel comfortable when a direct competitor has way too much control over BD replication capacity, atm.
4. Do they like having partners that regularly undercut their market by pricing software 2-fer 1.
5. Are they willing to be BDA stooges (looks at BVHE with surprise and disappointment).
6. Are they willing to wait for BD to get next-gen interactivity?
7. Do they ultimately want to help enrich a competing studios CE divisions?
8. Are near-term BD profits a reasonable trade-off for 2 through 7 above?

I have no idea what will happen, I just know these are things I would be considering if I was walking in their shoes.
If they do make a move, I expect it will be graceful and measured.

The PS3 by in large is already a failure. Last month the PS2 outsold it 2:1. The 360 and Wii outsold it each by a 5:1 margin. I will agree with you though there has been a very blind and biased sell for bluray players at retailers. For your perspective you can make more profit so I understand that. The problem is the players are not fully compatible with the next gen format you are selling.

No internet connection for firmware upgrades.
Most players do not decode advanced audio codecs like DTS-HD and True HD.
No web capability.
No secondary video and audio decoders.
Piss poor BD-J performance that is laughable compared to HDi.

It would be premature for WB to pick a side... the holiday season has not yet come in force and left. What if they picked the loser?

That's just it, they don't have to worry about picking the loser. They have the power to determine the loser. Yes, Blu-ray would still have Sony, Fox and Disney. But the balance of power would shift having Universal, Paramount, and Warner all HD DVD exclusive.

I have a gut feeling that they will at least wait until early next year to come to any conclusion... the same exact time frame that they supposedly pushed TotalHD discs to. They are hedging their bets, and I doubt they will change things right now.

I think the advent of TotalHD came and gone. Warner just about said as much really. I think this is a cancellation more than a push-back of that idea. I didn't think it was that bad an idea personally. But other studios weren't touching it. And since the only other studio that was truly neutral at the time, Paramount, switched to HD DVD there is really no reason for Warner to still develop ToHD.

Paramount was stupid (and greedy) to switch sides before the X-mas numbers were known for players and discs. I say stupid because if you read interviews with Alan Bell he clearly doesn't understand some of the finer points of the formats for him to have made these bald faced conclusions (sounds like someone who was bought and paid for by the HD-DVD group)... he constantly begs off certain technical questions stating he's not the right person to give those answers. Though, even then not all of their titles can be exclusively HD-DVD...

Dan

Ok, two things:

1) Last I checked Paramount was a public company with it's own decision making process. Let's put aside the conspiracy theory of a payoff, and the technical reasons Alan Bell gave for the switch. None of that matters. What matters is that for whatever the reason was, Paramount made their decision to back a single format. And that leaves people with two choices: buy an HD DVD player for Paramount movies, or don't buy Paramount movies. Paramount wasn't and isn't beholden to anyone but themselves. And that is the bottom line there.

2) Perhaps Paramount also wanted to try and do what Universal is doing; what Fox and Disney are trying to do for Blu-ray; steer the consumer into one direction. IF IF IF (and it's still a gigantic IF) Warner shifts, then that signals the same thing. Companies trying to end the format war one way or another by guiding consumers to the format they support.

Would I like to see all the studios neutral and let the consumer TRULY choose? Absolutely. But it isn't going to happen. So plan B is for everyone to pick a side and let the chips fall where they may.

It seems extremely odd they would dance around the subject of renewing membership to the BDA. Why wouldn't they just say we by no means will be dropping bluray, unless something is in the works. 3 business days to find out. Odd they would renew so late if they do.

Not so odd. It's rather like hostages or kipnapped journalists saying how great they're being treated. Obviously, they CAN'T say anything until they are truly FREE to do so.


Hint: November 1.;)

Nah, if WB went neutral, then things would be pretty even in terms of studio support. As a BD supporter, I wouldn't want to see this happen, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.

The biggest player here is still Disney, and they have been releasing. Fox + major hollywood directors still favor BD. I think either way, dual format players will become the norm before anything else.

You DO realize the job you want is already being held by Bill Hunt?

HD media is selling so poorly that a hundred-million-dollar "exclusive marketing incentive" will make more money than actually selling discs. 300 made WB a couple million on Blu (at best), and no other titles came close to those numbers. I doubt WB has made more than $20 million on all the HD media they've ever sold on both formats (combined).

I'm sure that Universal got a kickback as did Disney/Fox did as well. The only studios who went without them were WB and initially Paramount (who probably thought sales were going to be much higher). I'm guessing they realized the sales were terrible, so instead went for the pay-out. Also, I'm not being critical of any studio... I'm sure the shareholders would have wanted that. WB will take an offer, it's just a matter of who makes a better deal.

The wild card is Sony. I'm not sure how much they are willing to spend. Toshiba and MS are *very* healthy right now. Howard Stringer has done a whole lot to repair the ailing divisions at Sony, and I'm curious if he wants to pick a fight on multiple fronts since his company just came back from huge losses at most of their divisions.

They need to worry about BD and salvaging the PS3 as a gaming system. I don't know if they've got the resources to do both. At this point MS is profitable on the 360, and they only need to protect their projected future iHD revenues. I'm guessing Sony is more concerned about the PS3 as a gaming device. If they were fully backing BD they would subsidize the electronics division and match Toshiba's price (obviously they are subsidizing the PS3, but the mass-market doesn't use gaming systems to play movies -- obviously this benefits BD, but I really think that has only been a fringe benefit).

Dang good post!:)

What's a 'vertically integrated competitor'? And what would a 'horizontally integrated competitor' be?

James

Studios were "vertically integrated" when they made the movies (Production), advertised them, made the prints, and shipped to theaters (Distribution), and showed them in their own theaters (Exhibition).

The Supreme Court's "Paramount Decision" outlawed this in 1948.

Disney definitely is a big player for kids. For adults not so much. If Warner does go exclusive I see them going nuetral based on the failure of BD-J and the success of HDi.

The only point I'm making is that the average Walmart shopper who buys one of these players impulsively b/c of the price probably isn't going to be well informed about the movie prices or that it is meant for owners of hdtvs. Blockbuster actually asks people before renting blu-rays if they have a blu-ray player, b/c the average person doesn't know much about either of the formats. I actually heard someone say before that they were going to buy a blu-ray tv instead of an hd dvd one.
I didn't infer that they would migrate to blu-ray, but rather I would predict that they would wipe their hands clean of the whole hi-def situation. I'm not trying to spin this into something positive for blu-ray.
Price is almost never the main determinant in the outcome of the electronics market, just look at the Ipod.

Somehow people seem to operate their PCs, stereos, IPods, cellphones/cameras okay. A little hand-holding (and even the knowledge-free among the sales staff will soon know what HD DVD is and is not) by the stores--and their kids--and most folks will do just fine with all this.:cool:

Everyone also has to think about us custom installers out here. I work @ audiodimensions.net and within the past year our salesman have sold more blu-ray players than hd-dvd players by nearly 5 to 1. It's not because we don't like hd-dvd's it's just people already know about blu-ray and not hd-dvd's. I personaly own both formats so if one fails it wont hurt my feelings. I enjoy both formats equally but my concern is that the PS3 does have the potential to be an amazing gaming machine and your seeing that now, but if blu-ray fails where does that leave the PS3???

Where it is now--permanently in 3rd place!:p

You DO realize the job you want is already being held by Bill Hunt?

LOL :D

if blu-ray fails where does that leave the PS3???


Still behind the Wii and 360.

I was told to look for some major pro HD DVD announcement mid next week.

I was figuring that was the Wal-Mart an Circuit City $198 HD A2 carriage, but a Warner announcement would certainly qualify.

I would just think it would be unlikely before the 4Q stats are in.

But if Warner is crunching some numbers, and talking to CE companies and retailers.......

In another thread here, someone posted pics of a Wal-Mart Canada flyer promoting HD DVD, Warner Bros titles specifically, and with a picture of the Venturer player.



Wal-Mart talks to Venturer in April; Toshiba fights back with a $199 player deal.

Target and Sony announce a chain-wide Blu-ray only deal with the BDS-P300 at $499 throughout the Q4 selling season effectively handing the HD DVD market to Wal-Mart and setting a price a $500 min price point for hidef at Target.

Toshiba talks to Paramount to ensure HD DVD momentum for the fall and some "exclusive" HD DVD blockbusters, especially to appeal to Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart continues to deal with Venturer, sharpening its pencils, to ensure an even lower priced player -- $149 or less.

Wal-Mart brings in Warner Bros for some unique packaging -- perhaps something along the lines of a Harry Potter / Venturer bundle? That would be "magic"!


More than ever ... yikes! ... all that's left is the Nov 3 Wal-Mart flyers to hit the streets.

The other shoe just dropped. Blu-ray is now officially the PS3 version of UMD.

All I see in this thread is big maybe's and other theories.......

Anyone could make it go the way they like it to go like for example Universal goes neutral and supports Blu next year.........
Yeah I hear ya : that will never happen just like Paramount would not go HD-DVD exclusive.

Warner has stated more than enough times that they are waiting till January to see what both formats have done during the holiday season.
We can both argue any rumor we want but studio's will make their desicions on where money is to be made and how much.
And it's not America alone that they are looking too but the whole world where there is money to be made.

I don't see Warner making a desicion going exclusive anytime soon, at least not till the new year.
The same goes for many other studio's like Fox, Universal,Weinstein and Disney to name a few.
As of today blu-ray still has an advantage over HD-DVD in software sales and that may increase over the holidays as HD-DVD has less big titles to look forward to than blu-ray does.

Warner Brothers and probably WalMart both know that the PS3 sales for BR playback are over for the most part. The geeks like us here at AVS have already bought them for BR playback and lowering the price to $399.00 won't help as far as movie playback goes.

WB , like Paramount have realized that the PS3 will not matter in the long run as promised by Sony and are going to bail out as soon as they can. Better to do it now, much more free publicity if they do it before the holidays, and quite frankly, with the low quantity of sales on BR, they have nothing to lose. The new HD DVD player sales could easily make up for any lost BR sales.

There are just to many advantages for WB to announce now, as apposed to waiting till Jan.

All I see in this thread is big maybe's and other theories.......

Anyone could make it go the way they like it to go like for example Universal goes neutral and supports Blu next year.........
Yeah I hear ya : that will never happen just like Paramount would not go HD-DVD exclusive.

Warner has stated more than enough times that they are waiting till January to see what both formats have done during the holiday season.
We can both argue any rumor we want but studio's will make their desicions on where money is to be made and how much.
And it's not America alone that they are looking too but the whole world where there is money to be made.

I don't see Warner making a desicion going exclusive anytime soon, at least not till the new year.
The same goes for many other studio's like Paramount, Fox, Universal,Weinstein and Disney to name a few.
As of today blu-ray still has an advantage over HD-DVD in software sales and that may increase over the holidays as HD-DVD has less big titles to look forward to than blu-ray does.


Just as Warner put out a releasing dismissing suggestions they were going BD exclusive earlier (after the paramount announcement), I am looking for them to put out something similar on Monday.

My own guess is that Warner wants a larger slice of the BD format royalty to make up for potential loss of DVD revenue (where Warner owns significant IP), and that is where negotiations are at....

Granted, Warner could be holding out renewing their membership with Blu-ray in an attempt to win some nice incentives. But what if we find out they have renewed? What does that mean--how long does that commit them to publishing content on Blu-ray?

I ask because come Q1 when everyone's looking at the numbers, I wonder how much freedom Warner will have to go exclusive to one format or the other if they renew with Blu.

Not so odd. It's rather like hostages or kipnapped journalists saying how great they're being treated. Obviously, they CAN'T say anything until they are truly FREE to do so.


Hint: November 1.;)

He's got a point though, if they're renewing their membership then what's the big deal? They've stated already that they were going to wait and see how the holidays went and would continue to be neutral until next year. So I can't see them waiting to make a huge "announcement" over something they already stated. hehe.

If the rumor of an announcement is really true, then it's probably because they've been persuaded not to wait any longer. Of course we don't even know if there is an announcement coming.

Really the membership fee is a pittance, and it's not a contract (as some have misinterpreted). By renewing the membership the studios have not committed to releasing a certain amount of titles on that format or anything, all they have done is to give themselves the ability to do so if they choose.

All I see in this thread is big maybe's and other theories.......

Anyone could make it go the way they like it to go like for example Universal goes neutral and supports Blu next year.........
Yeah I hear ya : that will never happen just like Paramount would not go HD-DVD exclusive.

Warner has stated more than enough times that they are waiting till January to see what both formats have done during the holiday season.
We can both argue any rumor we want but studio's will make their desicions on where money is to be made and how much.
And it's not America alone that they are looking too but the whole world where there is money to be made.

I don't see Warner making a desicion going exclusive anytime soon, at least not till the new year.
The same goes for many other studio's like Paramount, Fox, Universal,Weinstein and Disney to name a few.
As of today blu-ray still has an advantage over HD-DVD in software sales and that may increase over the holidays as HD-DVD has less big titles to look forward to than blu-ray does.

I hate to bring you the bad news but Paramount already dropped BR in favor of HD DVD. Just a couple of months ago, infact. Unless of course you think Paramount may change the mind in the next few weeks.:)

If Warner dropped BD it would be a welcome turn of events, though I doubt this will happen as they seem to be pioneering the dual-format frontier.

Still, seeing that other studios refuse to go the same route, perhaps WB has decided not to waste their time and money with TotalHD if other studios are not going to adopt it anyway and instead just pick one side or the other.

I only mentioned Paramount as an example but for your good nights rest I will delete that one word out of the total post.

You clearly missed my meaning.....

As for your statement : "with the low quantity of sales on BR"

It should read : With the low quantity of sales on HD-DVD.

HD-DVD sold less copies to consumers than Blu-Ray did.
I can only think of 300 when reading your statement..............Blu-Ray outsold the HD-DVD version by far even though the HD-DVD had "better" features.

HD-DVD : 56,191 Units

Blu-Ray : 107,351 Units

(First week sales)



So you should do your homework as well before making such statements like you just did.

Warner would NOT go exclusive before the Harry Potter box sets come out...

Warner would NOT go exclusive before the Harry Potter box sets come out...

I wouldn't be too sure about that.:cool:

Is the Harry Potter series available on BR in Europe? Pretty sure it is on HD DVD but I'm not sure about BR.

Relax Wedlock, just joking around with you. Obviously it was just a mistake on your part.

I only mentioned Paramount as an example but for your good nights rest I will delete that one word out of the total post.

You clearly missed my meaning.....

As for your statement : "with the low quantity of sales on BR"

It should read : With the low quantity of sales on HD-DVD.

HD-DVD sold less copies to consumers than Blu-Ray did.
I can only think of 300 when reading your statement..............Blu-Ray outsold the HD-DVD version by far even though the HD-DVD had "better" features.

HD-DVD : 56,191 Units

Blu-Ray : 107,351 Units

(First week sales)



So you should do your homework as well before making such statements like you just did.
Perhaps you should do your homework and realize that these numbers are nothing more than a niche compared with DVD. In fact, I don't even know that they exceed what laserdisc was capable of selling during its heyday. So his statement "with the low quantity of sales on BR" is very much true. The studios don't want a niche format. They want a replacement for DVD, or at the very least a format that is capable of selling titles in the millions, not in the hundred thousands. And Warner especially wants a format with enough penetration that it can have healthy sales for its huge back catalog, not just day and date blockbusters.

So you should do your homework as well before making such statements like you just did.

Strange, my homework shows me that many Paramount/Dreamworks Blu-Rays were out selling the HD DVD counterpart by 2:1. However Paramount and Dreamworks both decided to go HD DVD exclusive.

Homework sucks doesn't it?

Howard Stringer has done a whole lot to repair the ailing divisions at Sony, and I'm curious if he wants to pick a fight on multiple fronts since his company just came back from huge losses at most of their divisions.

uh no

basically every division of sony is doing better than ever (except the playstation one, sce).

I only mentioned Paramount as an example but for your good nights rest I will delete that one word out of the total post.

You clearly missed my meaning.....

As for your statement : "with the low quantity of sales on BR"

It should read : With the low quantity of sales on HD-DVD.

HD-DVD sold less copies to consumers than Blu-Ray did.
I can only think of 300 when reading your statement..............Blu-Ray outsold the HD-DVD version by far even though the HD-DVD had "better" features.

HD-DVD : 56,191 Units

Blu-Ray : 107,351 Units

(First week sales)



So you should do your homework as well before making such statements like you just did.

107,351 is certainly nothing to brag about and not enough sales for any studio to be happy with at this point.

They want to have millions sold, not thousands. And as far as the HD DVD numbers, they are terrible as well, and gives studios even more reason to end this format war.

There were more than 2 million BR players out there when that was released. 107,351 is pitiful, to say the least. Thats what Warner sees and thats what many here see as the major problem with BR being the PS3 format.

Warner would NOT go exclusive before the Harry Potter box sets come out...

Who says they can't go exclusive while still releasing their already announced titles? I'm still of the belief that Warner could and perhaps should continue to release select titles on Blu-ray, but only a handful each year. Warner can announce exclusivity, go ahead and release everything already announced, and then become HD DVD exclusive till Sept. 2008 when they can announce the three or four titles for Blu-ray that the PS3 owners are most likely to buy.

Also, Warner has the power here. They don't have to sign an "exclusive" deal with HD DVD if it doesn't make business sense to do so, and still be pretty much exclusive with their releases. Of course, if Warner wants something more from Toshiba in compensation, they'll have to go fully exclusive. We shall see.

107,351 is certainly nothing to brag about and not enough sales for any studio to be happy with at this point.

They want to have millions sold, not thousands. And as far as the HD DVD numbers, they are terrible as well, and gives studios even more reason to end this format war.

There were more than 2 million BR players out there when that was released. 107,351 is pitiful, to say the least. Thats what Warner sees and thats what many here see as the major problem with BR being the PS3 format.

Wasn't it Warner that said something about how they hope Sony isn't going to rely on the PS3 for much longer? I can't remember the quote now but it was something to the effect that Warner wasn't happy that Sony was relying so heavily on the PS3.

HD DVD sales are actually better when you consider the low amount of players out there in the field compared to the number of PS3's.

I don't think Warner cares about disk sales right now, I think they care about sales on Stand Alone players and I believe they mentioned that when they said they were staying neutral through the holidays.

When you have a 4:1 lead in the player install base, and only a 2:1 sales lead, that's really not that good.

besides, it would be hard for wb to release even less titles on blu-ray than they have so i dont see this having much impact if true (the countless hd dvd exclusive titles currently out didnt do much)

if anything will bring hd dvd over blu-ray it's those cheap players and not what studios are releasing movies for the format as history have proved (universal didnt help and both paramount and wb was hd dvd exclusive at one point in the past)

When you have a 4:1 lead in the player install base, and only a 2:1 sales lead, that's really not that good.

sure if it was standalone players

but it isnt

overall sales is far more important than tie ratio

When you have a 4:1 lead in the player install base, and only a 2:1 sales lead, that's really not that good.

The difference is that every single HD DVD player was bought for the sole purpose of watching HD DVDs. Some PS3 owners could care less about High-def movies. I'd bet that well over half of PS3 owners don't even have an HDTV. That's probably being generous.

Yes they did. They also said they targeted the PS3 crowd with that release and still the numbers were terrible. These companies don't like spending millions to make thousands of dollars. Well, except maybe Sony.:)

Bottom line was that WB spent large sums going after the PS3 crowd and it basically flopped. Not a good indicator for future sales, especially for catalog titles as someone mentioned a bit ago. The main reason the studios are doing HD is because they want to resale all their old movies, yet again. That's ben clear from the start, at least to me.

Yes they did. They also said they targeted the PS3 crowd with that release and still the numbers were terrible. These companies don't like spending millions to make thousands of dollars. Well, except maybe Sony.:)

Bottom line was that WB spent large sums going after the PS3 crowd and it basically flopped. Not a good indicator for future sales, especially for catalog titles as someone mentioned a bit ago. The main reason the studios are doing HD is because they want to resale all their old movies, yet again. That's ben clear from the start, at least to me.

wow delusional fanboys at their best

300 on bd sold better than 300 on hd dvd

bd sells better than hd dvd

and what about transformers? you think that exclusive doing worse than 300 bd which you're calling a bomb is making studios cue up in line for going hd dvd exclusive?

besides, it would be hard for wb to release even less titles on blu-ray than they have so i dont see this having much impact if true (the countless hd dvd exclusive titles currently out didnt do much)

if anything will bring hd dvd over blu-ray it's those cheap players and not what studios are releasing movies for the format as history have proved (universal didnt help and both paramount and wb was hd dvd exclusive at one point in the past)



sure if it was standalone players

but it isnt

overall sales is far more important than tie ratio

Paramount and WB were exclusive up until the year before the first player was released. They never sold a single disk as exclusive HD DVD studios until Paramount dropped BR.

I would disagree about Universal. If not for them being exclusive from the beginning, HD DVD would not have had a chance in format war, in my opinion.

Everyone also has to think about us custom installers out here. I work @ audiodimensions.net and within the past year our salesman have sold more blu-ray players than hd-dvd players by nearly 5 to 1. It's not because we don't like hd-dvd's it's just people already know about blu-ray and not hd-dvd's. I personaly own both formats so if one fails it wont hurt my feelings. I enjoy both formats equally but my concern is that the PS3 does have the potential to be an amazing gaming machine and your seeing that now, but if blu-ray fails where does that leave the PS3???

Now, I don't work in custom install but I have friends who do.

My friends, at least, bluntly say they push and advocate BR because they can actually make some money on the players . . . AND many High End-ish places simply don't carry TOSHIBA products ie HD-DVD because too many Big Box stores DO carry TOSHIBA and the High End stores want to project more of an exclusive cachet.

Nothing definitive here, just balance.


-30-

Paramount and WB were exclusive up until the year before the first player was released. They never sold a single disk as exclusive HD DVD studios until Paramount dropped BR.

I would disagree about Universal. If not for them being exclusive from the beginning, HD DVD would not have had a chance in format war, in my opinion.

matrix
batman
harry potter 4 in the uk
etc

btw anyone see this?
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=619

would be odd to announce a blu-ray (timed) exclusive just a couple of days before going hd dvd exclusive imo

wow delusional fanboys at their best

300 on bd sold better than 300 on hd dvd

bd sells better than hd dvd

and what about transformers? you think that exclusive doing worse than 300 bd which you're calling a bomb is making studios cue up in line for going hd dvd exclusive?

What is it about 10x the players only resulting in 68:32 the sales that you guys don't get?

wow delusional fanboys at their best

300 on bd sold better than 300 on hd dvd

bd sells better than hd dvd

and what about transformers? you think that exclusive doing worse than 300 bd which you're calling a bomb is making studios cue up in line for going hd dvd exclusive?

Yes, I do. Look at the number of HD DVD owners that bought transformers or even 300 versus BR owners that bought 300.

So you think selling 107,531 units to 2.3 million owners is not bombing? Wow. I don't know what else to say to that.

What is it about 10x the players only resulting in 68:32 the sales that you guys don't get?

what is it about getting better sales on blu-ray that you guys don't get? studios dont care about the number of players. they care about selling their content and their content sells better on blu-ray than on hd dvd.

there is more standalone hd dvd players out there than standalone blu-ray players yet blu-ray is doing better. that's alarming

btw anyone see this?
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=619

would be odd to announce a blu-ray (timed) exclusive just a couple of days before going hd dvd exclusive imo

Mr. Woodcock is not a Blu-ray exclusive, no matter how many times they say it. As with the other New Line day and date releases it will simply be released on HD DVD once the movie has run through overseas due to region coding.

If New Line was HD DVD exclusive, that wouldn't change. But to suggest the movie is exclusive because of the timing is rediculous.

And it has nothing to do with anything WB may do.

matrix
batman
harry potter 4 in the uk
etc

That does not make them an exclusive studio. It simply means that BR is an unfinished product that can't support what they can do on HD DVD. Nothing more.