since the two areas have been remerged ive noticed a ridiculous amount of trolling regarding the newer lcd units that are soon to hit the market. We get it you bought at LCOS unit last year and its blasphemy for anyone to think that a newer lcd model could be better in some aspects. Why dont you put your bias aside, A/B compare the projectors and then tell us what you think. Because from all early accounts the new epson/panasonic should have you worried :D
This is how technology works

This thread is going to go well! :D

if its not Sim2 then its a toy.













:D

and to think I had a dealer tell me a SIm2 was a Buick, so what's that make LCDs? =)

NowI own an AX200u, there are advantages and disadvantages to all technologies.

NowI own an AX200u...

Not only LCD, but 720p LCD?!?!?! Yugo! :eek:

one of the best bang for the buck ones too, lol.

Just threw a 100" image on a white wall (and door) with ambient light in the room. paired with a cheapo toshiba A1, upscaled DVDs and HD-DVDs (transformers) look superb.

lumens for the win.

Now this is just a "toy" of course. =o) Playing before I get a "sim2". ;)

This reminds a lot of the car forum where some were saying that Ferarri owners should be worried about the Corvette. “I mean, look at the specs. In some ways the Corvette is almost as good as the Ferarri.” A . . . right. Yeah.

I really don’t think the Panasonics, Epsons or Sanyos are in the same league as the SIM2 C3X1080 or JVC RS2

Not the sim2 for sure (but then at what cost), but the rs2, i bet they do some things better. on/off CR is not everything and i own the HD1.

whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your purchase i guess

There is no shame in not being able to buy a better one or not knowing or being able to understand such things as lens sharpness, the absence of chromatic aberations, etc that some of the better stuff has. Its like buying a cheap car, it will most likely get you from point a to point b just as the expensive one will. what you don't know in this case, will not hurtyou. Enjoy.

I have the RS1 and am interested in the new panny coming out. I'll be impressed if most say it betters the overall performance of the RS1 and I may switch to it even though I love the RS1.

I think though that the next pj I get will be that C2x 1080 badnboy although I am hoping for a Lite version of it to be released to save some money and extra lumens that I do not need.

There is no shame in not being able to buy a better one or not knowing or being able to understand such things as lens sharpness, the absence of chromatic aberations, etc that some of the better stuff has. Its like buying a cheap car, it will most likely get you from point a to point b just as the expensive one will. what you don't know in this case, will not hurtyou. Enjoy.

Mark,

Do you think you could have written that in a more condescending fashion, or is that the how you line your pockets by pressuring your customers into more expensive units?

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe some consumers CAN afford to spend more and that some do know about sharpness and CA??? Maybe they decide their discretionary income is better spent elsewhere, or that they don't want to put a ton of money into a product that deprecates at the speed of light, or don't want to buy a premium product that will be surpassed by a lower level product at a fraction of the cost next year, or that paying more for a certain name might not actually buy them an overall better product. :rolleyes:

whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your purchase i guess

This holds true for electronics across the board though. People always want to think they have the best, some thrive on it and in return end up blowing money to impress others. Obviously there is always going to be something better, either that day or in the foreseeable future, so why even buy?

It makes me wonder how many people buy new electronics or cars for that matter, just to brag on a forum about it. Me, I love geeking out and talking about electronics as the only friend I have that is tech savy lives 3 hours away. It is a nice escape for me from my professional life.

I love electronics and future tech. On that note, anyone else going to CES this year? Thought I would finally make it out to Vegas and salivate over new technology. Hopefully leave with a new screen from Vutec in the Silverstar.

mark thats absolutely the attitude im talking about thanks for coming in to share your opinion

also im not doubting that high end projectors like the SIM2 and others are better than these new LCD units (they better be for the cost difference), im just saying it doesnt give owners of those models to look down on everyone who shares a different opinion.

law of diminishing returns.

the SIm2 is most likely not double/triple better than other 1080pjs as its price reflects.

But for some of us (like me) who sloth through these forums for 1-2 hours daily, it makes a difference...

I think the hi end audio analogy is applicable here. Once you start to hit say $10k with projectors then the performance jumps become smaller and the price jumps get bigger. Its a judgement call as to thier value to you, the individual.

The rules for 3chip 1080 are the same, its just that (for the most current models) the entry level is now down to $30k msrp.

hasnt it always been said, you pay the premium for the extra 10% in performance.

So then its up to the individual if that extra 10% is woth the extra $$ that most likly is alot more than 10%.

Going by some shots on this forum it seems that NO, spending extra 1000,s of $$ dosent give you less CA etc.

its all personal choices. perhaps thou todays panasonic ax200 buyer will be in 5 years the next SIM2 3 chip buyer. we all started somewhere.

Today's ax200 buyer is 5 years SIM2 1chip buyer, at the least...I think 3 chip might be a jump but you never know with the fast forwarding technology....

Actually it's more like do you trust your lying eyes or the stats and graphs... ;)

since the two areas have been remerged ive noticed a ridiculous amount of trolling regarding the newer lcd units that are soon to hit the market. We get it you bought at LCOS unit last year and its blasphemy for anyone to think that a newer lcd model could be better in some aspects. Why dont you put your bias aside, A/B compare the projectors and then tell us what you think. Because from all early accounts the new epson/panasonic should have you worried :D
This is how technology works

You are correct that many people will buy things just because they want to be able to say that they have "the best". I certainly hope that this is not why people on this forum buy projectors. Especially with all of the tweeking and modifications that people discuss. Still, I can see your point.

However, you really are just as bad as they are when you make a comment like "the new Epson/Panasonic should have you worried."

Why should these projectors have people worried? Do they have some kind of Skynet technology within them that could potentially attack the public? Will they be used for mind control of large populations?

Your post addresses the few people who may not care as much about lively discussions, but rather want to be able to say that they bought "the best" and that's that. This, of course, does not include the vast majority of those who have high end projectors. With respect to that smaller subgroup though, why would you want to scold them while fanning the flame at the same time?

In defense of Mark's comments I did not sense any condescension. However, in my opinion his analogy is correct. Whatever machine a person buys (especially ANY of the machine's talked about on these forums) would most likely make that person happy. There will no doubt be better machines out there. His comment "what you don't know won't hurt you" holds a lot of truth; It is only when we compare what we have to what somebody else has that we start to wonder if what we have is good enough. As far as the different objective specs go, I also agree that unless someone points out a certain projector's deficiencies most people who don't read this forum probably would not notice it even existed.

Personally I bought the best I could afford which is a used Ruby. I was happy with it until I started to read everyone's comments as to how their particular machine bettered the Ruby. I now realize that most of the improvements over my Ruby are nothing more than incremental improvements that my untrained eye would probably not even notice. Are there better machines than my Ruby? Probably. But, my ignorance of those differences is what is keeping me content (at least for now).

I really plan to leave this forum for 2-3 years after I pick up a 1080p PJ.

I really plan to leave this forum for 2-3 years after I pick up a 1080p PJ.

It's impossible to leave Elmalloc.Once here life is over.You will allways have to peak and see what the next best thing is.And take abuse from those that have past you buy:D

I agree. I also purchased the VW60, but realize that it will be bested just like any other piece of technology that I have ever owned. What I like about these forums is that I get a chance to learn what is coming next. Some things I will like and some I won't. If I keep myself in the dark though, I will be less ready to make an educated decision when it comes to getting the next projector down the road.

That is why you will likely stay here. We get addicted to technology almost as if it were a drug. ;)

You can pick out the next technology by researching a few weeks to a month tops though..staying here you will be forever stuck in an endless loop of upgrading.

Problem is, I enjoy the process of researching technology more than actually using whatever I have.

And I'm not alone,
ELmO

You can pick out the next technology by researching a few weeks to a month tops though..staying here you will be forever stuck in an endless loop of upgrading.

Problem is, I enjoy the process of researching technology more than actually using whatever I have.

And I'm not alone,
ELmO

AMEN. :D

You can pick out the next technology by researching a few weeks to a month tops though..staying here you will be forever stuck in an endless loop of upgrading.

Problem is, I enjoy the process of researching technology more than actually using whatever I have.

And I'm not alone,
ELmO

Thankfully I use my projectors until they die. God help me if I kept up with every piece of electronics equipment in my house. I used these forums once when I bought my Mitsubishi VL1000, then when I bought my Sony HS51, then again when I got my Panasonic 1000u(which had problems about 2 weeks after I got it, therefore it went back) and again to find the replacement in the form of the 2000, which will hopefully be shipped out in the next week or so.

Truthfully, I am not sure what alot of you are looking for every year. The picture quality is phenominal on most of the projectors out there. It seems to be a pissing match every year something new is released. I will own the Panasonic AE2000 until it dies and then get something else, in that time I will enjoy the hell out of it without thinking of another projector.

I am not sure how some of you do it, it almost seems more entertaining to talk about projectors on the forum than to actually watch them. :)

Enjoy what you have without regret. My wife and I enjoy hours upon hours of HD movies, along with games on the 360. My projector gets, easily, 5 hours plus a day.

I enjoy talking about technology but I'll be damned if I am going to go buy a new projector every 6 months or so because the community is in an uproar over an extra pixel. :D Hahaha.

This thread is going to go well! :D

I was actually thinking the same thing...Oh boy, I'd better make some pop corn and put a few drinks on ice...

I really plan to leave this forum for 2-3 years after I pick up a 1080p PJ.

Is that possible ?? I think they should rename this forum Hotel California. :D

I really plan to leave this forum for 2-3 years after I pick up a 1080p PJ.
I did try not read any threads on newer PJs once I bought my AE1000, apart from AE1000 tweaking and calibration threads. Once these died down I should have stopped, but I opened an AE2000 thread by accident and you can guess the rest.......

Is that possible ?? I think they should rename this forum Hotel California. :D
'You can log off, but you can never leave'.:D

Lol!!!

Instead of attacking all of the lcos guys, why don't you just name names of who you believe is trolling and put it to rest.

Also, why does it bother you if someone prefers an lcos projector more? It doesn't bother me if you prefer an LCD projector?

mark thats absolutely the attitude im talking about thanks for coming in to share your opinion

also im not doubting that high end projectors like the SIM2 and others are better than these new LCD units (they better be for the cost difference), im just saying it doesnt give owners of those models to look down on everyone who shares a different opinion.

If you are worried and vulnerable about what other people think on this forum I would say you have self-esteem problems and I would recommend you get in therapy. If you were secure in yourself you would not care if other people were judging you. I do not see elitism on this board. The posters who are interested in more expensive projectors mind their own business and do not waste their time judging the under 3K crowd. If anything it is the under 3K crowd who sometimes lash out at those spending more then they do on a projector.

It's all about alcohol...alcohol I say

1. No one loves alcohol (or has tried it) when they are very young (new) to the world of drinking. {Projectors}
2. Then they try a beer, then a wine, then a hard liquor drink. They pick their favorite. They love to drink THAT alcohol, although they like them all. {LCD, DLP, LCOS}
3. Then a lover of a particular type of alcohol, lets say Liquor, decides he loves Whisky. {Sony, JVC}
4. Finally, the whisky drinker may or may not decide spending 100 bucks on a bottle of Makers Mark allows a better whisky then that 40 dollar bottle of Jack Daniels . {Pearl vs Black Pearl}

All in all, every persons tastes differ, and its not that they do not appreciate the other flavors, they just don't REALLY care except for those few who everyone respects. But of course everyone wants others to identify with their own tastes; hence there is this forum.

Oh yea..and a hang over...ever wonder what that feeling is when your paying that credit card bill? But often times, it was worth it. Just like a hangover after a good night of drinking.

PS Please replace the previous examples of whisky with the following depending on your tastes

Beer - Pale Lager - Coors / Samual Adams
Wine - Cabernet - Big House Red / 1941 Inglenook

Dangit, its only 9am and I need a drink now.... :D

Sounds like someone needs to go to P.A. :D

I'm not one that will upgrade my projector quickly. When I decided to go digital over CRT, I researched and found the best bang for the buck, and sat down with my wife and we discussed the 3 that fit our needs and our budget. I'm hoping our new projector will last a good 4 or 5 years, replace a few bulbs (boy that sounds weird for a CRT guy) and be very happy NOT tweaking our projector more than watching it (although I did enjoy tweaking the CRT's). When our digital finally dies, then and only then, will I go and start this whole process over again and choose another projector. I don't do the bashing thing... in fact, when I go to a home theater meet, I always try to find something nice to say about their setup, and that isn't a hard thing to do. In fact, every meet I've been to is different... different projectors, speakers, amps, display devices, screens, etc... How many times did Mona (wife) and I, while driving home from a home theater meet, talk about the things that we liked and how we could do something like that to ours.

As for me, I came to this site because I had decided that front projection was the way to go for my den. I got good, usable information and a real sense of what projector would create a quality theater experience.

I ended up with a WP 60. As far as elitism is concerned, I haven't really seen that here. I was after the best deal for the money, and I think I got it. Good information on this site.

Of course there is a tremendous amount of information that might appeal only to what are called "tech heads" or "geeks", but wading into that allowed me to make smart purchases and to not waste a fortune on something disappointing.

I assure you, I don't feel like an elitist.

I'd like to echo Mark's comments from earlier. There is no shame in not understanding what a good picture is, in not being able to afford something good, in having to purchase some cheap piece of putrid garbage. No shame whatsoever.

lol qqq

After following various AVS forums for several years I have concluded that a) measurements do not quantify but a small part of what the human machine perceives, b) because of "a" for any of this you need to look or hear to decide what satisfies you.

I have a 230 hour (watched it that much) Infocus 777 that is less than two months mine. Many would consider me a fool for such a purchase but for me it is the ticket. My mind, my perceptions, my compromises.

Before got married I had a car with tires I really liked, but in the winter if the ambient temp got below 24 or so I had to be careful on the way to work until I got the tires warmed up. The did not stick cold like they did warm. It was a compromise I was very happy with single, did not work out married. In exchange for boring tires I have two kids that are more fun than a fun car. All of this these AV and audio choices are based on perception, compromise, and personal choice, like most anything larger or small in our lives.

I'd like to echo Mark's comments from earlier. There is no shame in not understanding what a good picture is, in not being able to afford something good, in having to purchase some cheap piece of putrid garbage. No shame whatsoever.


SCHWEEEEEEEEEET

coming from the person who owns sim2 everything.

I can´t wait till I get my Ae2000, I already bought A full set of Dali Ikon speakers due to the speaker forum, then I purchased the Marantz Sr-8002 reciever after looking at the Amp section. Now finally I can give AVS a little rest. I am happy, my wife even more.

Here's my take on the OP's comment, IF talking, listening and participating in this forum (or actually any of them) to gain the best understanding in a purchase of a product is elitism, than I would venture to say we're all guilty.

Look at it like this, before Al Gore invented the internet (for us common folk) we would be gaining most of our information from either a VERY biased magazine or maybe a local shop- which both have a motive to sell the products they carry or can sell. Now we have the benefit of worldwide knowledge/opinions at our fingertips, literally:). Personally I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't see it in the 3k thread or even the 20k one. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the posters are not pulling their punches and just trying to help some fellow enthusiasts.

My .02

waiting on my ae2000u!! i see others are waiting as well..! hehe! :D

I can´t wait till I get my Ae2000, I already bought A full set of Dali Ikon speakers due to the speaker forum, then I purchased the Marantz Sr-8002 reciever after looking at the Amp section. Now finally I can give AVS a little rest. I am happy, my wife even more.

He he... sounds like a comment I made a couple of years ago after buying an IN76, HSU speakers, an Oppo DVD player and a Denon receiver. I was sure I was done... After the RS1 comes this week, the only thing I will have left from that list is the Oppo.... I gotta stop reading this forum! :)