What are the best scenes on HD DVDs to demonstrate telecine judder? (I'm not talking about frame rate judder.)

Judder is not a humungous issue for me, but I do see it occasionally. However, I don't remember which scenes on HD DVDs are best to demonstrate it, and I don't feel like going through all my discs to look for the best spots.

I seem to remember some camera pans in Batman Begins (mountain, plane) that might be good to demo this. Others?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to test the "Cinema Reality" feature of my Panasonic projector. It claims to be able to reconstruct the 1080p24 source from a 1080i signal, but doesn't actually say what it does with it. I'm assuming it outputs it at 720p24 (since the projector does support this res and frame rate), but I want to check various scenes to confirm this.

If you've got Planet Earth, then pop any disc in and press play. The difference in watch-ability for that series is huge. The camera is often doing sweeping pans, and at 60fps it's an eye strain and quite fatiguing (on a 100" screen). At 24fps it's a joy.

If you've got Planet Earth, then pop any disc in and press play. The difference in watch-ability for that series is huge. The camera is often doing sweeping pans, and at 60fps it's an eye strain and quite fatiguing (on a 100" screen). At 24fps it's a joy.

Are you sure? I thought Planet Earth was made for broadcast TV and as such was destined for 1080i/60. 1080p/24fps pure joy?

Am I sure?

Why would I post it if I weren't sure?

Opening of Sahara - pans across newspaper headlines pasted on the walls. You can tell the text is sharp but it is unreadable due to the movement. I would like to find out how much improvement (if any) is available with a 1080p/24 setup.....

Are you sure? I thought Planet Earth was made for broadcast TV and as such was destined for 1080i/60. 1080p/24fps pure joy?

Nope - Planet Earth was shot by the BBC in 1080/25p (the European equivalent of 1080/24p).

When shown in Europe it was broadcast in 1080/50i and 576/50i - with 2:2 pulldown (which doesn't have "telecine judder" as all film frames are shown for an equal amount of time - though it still has temporal judder from the relatively low 25Hz sampling rate)

It appears that the US HD-DVD and BluRay releases are 24p conversions from the 25p master - which will be done by using a 1:1 frame mapping and a slow-down - and as a result when replayed in 60i or 60p will have 3:2 judder.

When shown on Discovery in the US I am not clear whether a 25p to 24p to 60i with 3:2 conversion was used - as for the HD-DVD/BluRay when replayed at 60Hz, or a 25p to 50i to 60i standards conversion was used instead. The latter would result in no speed change, but interpolated frames/fields rather than a straight 1:1 mapping, but without 3:2 judder.

What is clear is that Planet Earth was NOT shot in 50i or 60i - it has a definite 24p/25p motion characteristic.

(Blue Planet was different - that was shot 25p aka 25fps film above water, and 50i SD video below the water - with the obvious motion characteristics changing above and below the surface as a result. A nice technique)

As for 3:2 judder - I think I'm pretty sensitive to it being a European used to watching 2:2 judder-free transfers on DVD and TV. On HD-DVD and BluRay I see it on almost all linear motion in any direction - even the 20th Century Fox fly round at the beginning of a film.

This is a new term for me but I think I saw it last night on Inside Man when they are panning inside the bank where the pizzas/recorder playing is located. As they panned around the room it almost make me sick. Was on the front row last night of 106" diag. 1080i (HD A1) for movie night.

I've read the definitive scene to test judder is on Mission Impossible III in the scene that opens with a panning shot of some long marble steps behind a speaker's dais in the Vatican.

That's not the scene where Tom Cruise has climbed over the wall and is in a priest's robe walking into the building is it?

Cuz I don't see much there.

P.S. The judder I see with the Universal intro logo on other movies, where they're panning across the planet earth: Is that just frame rate judder and not telecine judder?

There is a scene in Serenity when they are on the reaver planet and looking at the buildings they pan past what looks like shudders on a window I think. Really bad on my system. I'll have to pop it in a check it now, damnit. Once I start looking for it, it shows up everywhere.:)

What are the best scenes on HD DVDs to demonstrate telecine judder? (I'm not talking about frame rate judder.)

Judder is not a humungous issue for me, but I do see it occasionally. However, I don't remember which scenes on HD DVDs are best to demonstrate it, and I don't feel like going through all my discs to look for the best spots.

I seem to remember some camera pans in Batman Begins (mountain, plane) that might be good to demo this. Others?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to test the "Cinema Reality" feature of my Panasonic projector. It claims to be able to reconstruct the 1080p24 source from a 1080i signal, but doesn't actually say what it does with it. I'm assuming it outputs it at 720p24 (since the projector does support this res and frame rate), but I want to check various scenes to confirm this.

The only disc thus far to bother me with that kind of jutter has to be 2001, unfortunately. Things like fine white lines against a black background moving uniformly seem to bring it out on my CRT RPTV.

Arggghhh... It may be moot. I turned on the 24 fps "Cinema Reality" feature of my projector. Suddenly, I'm getting combing in a few spots. Yuck.

IMO, combing, is a zillion times worse than any judder.

...a fine example of why less processing is always better, and why 1080i != 1080p24.

...a fine example of why less processing is always better, and why 1080i != 1080p24.
Yeah, I'll probably end up just buying a 24p player in the future, once their physical sizes decrease. The reason I'm not using one now is because the space where I keep my components is very shallow, and too shallow to hold a current Toshiba player. Dumb reason but true. (I'm using a 360 with add-on for the time being.)