The NFL on FOX in HDTV for week 8 include the following games:

1PM
Detroit at Chicago
Philadelphia at Minnesota
NY Giants vs Miami (at Wembley Stadium in London)

4:15PM
New Orleans at San Francisco
Washington at New England

All FOX HD games are produced in 720p and 5.1.

FOX is the doubleheader network.

All times ET.

Please include your source (call letters and city) and provider (Cable, Sat, OTA, ST).

Watching KMPH Fresno (DET/CHI) and KBFX Bakersfield (NYG/MIA).

Detroit/Chicago looks good in HD. LondonBowl is in SD because KBFX doesn't transmit HD.

Giants/Dolphins game looks awesome. Watching both OTA and DISH Network on 50" Panasonic plasma KPTV Portland, Oregon. 720p HDMI. There are some glitches with video sync.

Birds - Vikings
PQ & AQ -- good
D* Allentown, PA
110" DLP

Gints/Fins looks incredibly blurry and soft except for still shots/ close ups. WPGH via Comcast. much worse than usual FOX games. colors also looked jacked up compared to normal. 61" leddlp.

Watching Giants/Dolphins via OTA in Miami (WSVN). PQ looks good but not spectacular. The main camera looks somewhat soft.

Why did they feel the need to cover the kickoff on every single ticket channel?
Other than dolphins and giants fans who cares?
It is a horrible idea anyway.
Sorry had to vent a little.

WNYW-DT NYG vs MIA FIOS

The main field cam has a vertical line pattern on the whole video frame, the video is also a little soft.
The ground cams look good.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7037/snapshot200710280000bd7.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot200710280000bd7.jpg)http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7049/snapshot200710280001df1.th.jpg (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot200710280001df1.jpg)

London Bowl is crap.

Why did they feel the need to cover the kickoff on every single ticket channel?
Other than dolphins and giants fans who cares?
It is a horrible idea anyway.
Sorry had to vent a little.

Ask the NFL Marketing and Promtions department why they are not playing in Miami also.

At least the Giants did not lose a home game.

Is that system where they put fake billboards on the video causing the vertical line interference on NYG vs MIA ? If so please turn it off FOX.

Why did they feel the need to cover the kickoff on every single ticket channel?
Other than dolphins and giants fans who cares?
It is a horrible idea anyway.
Sorry had to vent a little.

At least they don't have the scoreboard in a foreign language like a few weeks ago - they kept it in English despite being in a foreign country. ;)

But they shouldn't be there unless it is an exhibition game.

What game are you talking about that was in a foreign language before?

They had a Cowboy game in Spanish (scoreboard) a few weeks back.

FOX did? Wow...that is just, I don't even know what to say.
Makes me wonder if there are any competent people in their sports division??

NYG vs MIA

Looks like the right 30 yard line field cam does not have the lines on it.
It seems to only be effecting the camera that is center to the 50 yard line.

There is also one high camera that took a shot of the crowd that the vertical lines were so bad they were visible on the HD and SD feed.

Watching the game via Cablevision Long Island. I agree with the above posts: Picture is good but not great. Long shots somewhat soft, closeups clear.. Tony Siracusa was out of sync when he was interviewing the giant..

FOX did? Wow...that is just, I don't even know what to say.
Makes me wonder if there are any competent people in their sports division??

It was either NBC or ESPN.

But it was an NFL thing.

It was either NBC or ESPN.

But it was an NFL thing.

It was NBC. It was during some Latino week the NFL put on.

I seem to remember the World Cup converted from 1080/50i to 720/60P on ABC looked better. That was using a Shiba Soku and this is a Vistek/Digital Vision/ProBel. I know that the rain isn't helping the conversion and the encoding, but this all looks a bit soft particularly the high 50 yard camera. I wonder if that's the PVI line marker. The standards converter gets faked out a bit every so often especially on the graphic transitions.

I seem to remember the World Cup converted from 1080/50i to 720/60P on ABC looked better. That was using a Shiba Soku and this is a Vistek/Digital Vision/ProBel. I know that the rain isn't helping the conversion and the encoding, but this all looks pretty soft. The standards converter gets faked out a bit every so often especially on the graphic transitions.

I guess we're seeing how good or bad the CIFER is then, unless the 1080/50i source was better for conversion? Wonder what bitrate the 720/50p backhaul from Wembley to the US is over the fibre? (AIUI it is Fibre to the US in 720/50p with the conversion taking place in the States?)

Wow , I'm surprised you guys like the picture. I've been seeing nothing but "heat wave" blurs all game on close ups when players move around. Comcast Essex NJ system.

FOX did? Wow...that is just, I don't even know what to say.
Makes me wonder if there are any competent people in their sports division??
The "Spanish" you saw was on NBC's scoreboard during the Vaqueros de Dallas and Osos de Chicago--uhm, Cowboys/Bears game to celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80282851&template=without-video&confirm=true). So don't get your pantalones all in a bunch over it. Like every business, the NFL wants to try to get everyone's money, not just those who speak English.

Despite the color being jacked up, the picture isn't too bad; it's actually one of the better FOX pictures I've seen, though there have been some dropouts. FOX's graphics seem to be crapping out though, and tearing.

Not only does FOX have the worst on-screen graphics, they have the loudest. Why do they have to make so much noise just to show you "1st and 10"? The DD 5.1 is good (though I unplug the center channel so I don't to listen to the commentary).

Wonderful how they are taking USA's game away from fans for the almighty dollar.(The Hispanic reach out game is fine but the overseas venture they are delving into is aweful)

Oh, and Jeff I wouldn't be caught dead watching a cowgirls game unless they were playing my birds, so I never saw this.

I guess we're seeing how good or bad the CIFER is then, unless the 1080/50i source was better for conversion? Wonder what bitrate the 720/50p backhaul from Wembley to the US is over the fibre? (AIUI it is Fibre to the US in 720/50p with the conversion taking place in the States?)I also saw the converter get faked out on the WC. The random nature of the rainfall can't be helping things to I can't say it's a totally fair comparison. It's still sharper on most of the cameras compared to the WS SD stuff from Fox's studio (which is also quite enhanced). I would think having 720P from one end to the other would be an advantage, but maybe having the extra spacial resolution (at least in the horizontal axis during motion) in 1080i has benefits. It would be interesting to know the backhaul bitrates and format. I suspect they stayed with MPEG 2 as it's easier for everyone along the way to monitor it.

Watching Lions / Bears on WJBK in Detroit via Comcast. It looks ok, not the best looking Fox effort I have seen, but it is okay.

Wonderful how they are taking USA's game away from fans for the almighty dollar.(The Hispanic reach out game is fine but the overseas venture they are delving into is aweful)

Oh, and Jeff I wouldn't be caught dead watching a cowgirls game unless they were playing my birds, so I never saw this.
Don't worry, they're not "taking the game away" from you. I guarantee the NFL and its sponsors will continue cram it down everyone's throats. You'd be surprised how many people watch American football in Europe (they even have a whole channel devoted to sports in North America, NASN), so this London thing is slightly more than just a novelty. As long as it's a 1PM game and its on in HD so I can watch it, I don't care where it is.

Though it's ironic that as the HD technology continues to improve, the on-field product continues to get worse . . .

They're not showing it, but I'm guessing there's a streaker on the field right now at Wembley! I'm guessing that GOLDENPALACE.COM is written on his ass? That's one thing I do NOT want to see in HD.

Who was just yelling "Return guy, return guy" on the NYG va MIA game?

Don't worry, they're not "taking the game away" from you. I guarantee the NFL and its sponsors will continue cram it down everyone's throats. You'd be surprised how many people watch American football in Europe (they even have a whole channel devoted to sports in North America, NASN), so this London thing is slightly more than just a novelty. As long as it's a 1PM game and its on in HD so I can watch it, I don't care where it is.

Though it's ironic that as the HD technology continues to improve, the on-field product continues to get worse . . .



See, you are not a fan. That is obvious from your statements.
I'll explain it to you.
Many fans like to go to the game and they are trying to take at least one home game away from each team and therefor its' fans.
That is not cool.
Also, if at some point down the road we would have to watch a game on there time that would not be cool.
Europe will lose interest as fast as Americans did with that soccer player with the plastic wife/dominatrix.

Mark Schlereth put it best.

They're not showing it, but I'm guessing there's a streaker on the field right now at WembleyI wonder if that would be shown in Europe. Can't do that in the US because they have to protect the children, and the small issue of a $3 million+ fine.

I wonder if that would be shown in Europe. Can't do that in the US because they have to protect the children, and the small issue of a $3 million+ fine.

These days they typically do not so as not to encourage it.

Not only does FOX have the worst on-screen graphics, they have the loudest.
I don't mind loud graphics so long as they're actually telling you something. Now the blacking out of the picture above the top graphic? A huge waste. I'd rather they put scrolling advertising up there than just grey bars on a black background.

See, you are not a fan. That is obvious from your statements.
I'll explain it to you.
Many fans like to go to the game and they are trying to take at least one home game away from each team and therefor its' fans.
That is not cool.
Also, if at some point down the road we would have to watch a game on there time that would not be cool.
Europe will lose interest as fast as Americans did with that soccer player with the plastic wife/dominatrix.

Mark Schlereth put it best.
Let me explain it to you: I'm a Giants fan, but I hate the NFL. And besides watching your Eagles, how many matchups are you actually interested in every week? Probably not many. And without fantasy football or gambling, probably zero. And ESPN has turned MNF so much into "entertainment" that you can't even enjoy the actual "sport" anymore.

So yes, I'm not a "fan" if that's what you mean.

Let me explain it to you: I'm a Giants fan, but I hate the NFL. And besides watching your Eagles, how many matchups are you actually interested in every week? Probably not many. And without fantasy football or gambling, probably zero. And ESPN has turned MNF so much into "entertainment" that you can't even enjoy the actual "sport" anymore.

So yes, I'm not a "fan" if that's what you mean.


You hate the NFL and you are a Giants fan? That makes sense, lol.
Actually that is why I bought the Ticket 'and' Superfan...because I love football and want to watch as many games as possible in HD.
Besides the point though...they are taking away home games from the people who allow the NFL to be as big as it is--the paying customers/fans.

I don't mind loud graphics so long as they're actually telling you something. Now the blacking out of the picture above the top graphic? A huge waste. I'd rather they put scrolling advertising up there than just grey bars on a black background.
Be careful what you wish for. That comment was brought to you by Miller Lite.

Overall I think CBS does the best job across the board with the NFL (and sports in general).

For those of you that have NFL Sunday Ticket and Superfan, are your player tracker updates working?

Yeah, the Giants will just horribly disappoint me in the end like they always do--that's probably why I'm bitter. ;)

Sure, the fans are one part of it, but it's the sponsors and the TV contracts that really allow the game to be as big as it is. I guess if I had season tickets I'd be a little pissed.

Anyway, I digress . . . anyone else having DD 5.1 issues? It was pretty good at first, but now there seems to be no ambient on-field noise at all, and some center channel bleeding into the fronts.

I enjoyed the London game. It's nice to see the NFL expand overseas.

BTW - what movie(?) was being advertised in the 4th quarter? It had the red Terminator eyes and the name "John Connor" quickly flashed by with the date 1/18/08?

TV Show. The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

PQ on redskins v. patriots is outstanding. Much better than the London game, IMO. Viewing OTA in Irvine, CA.

why cant we get the pats/skins game here in new york?

Pats vs Washington, WFXT Boston.
PQ is good but the audio is lousy, kind of thin sounding. The crowd noise is anemic, there's no bass, no ooomph. I don't know if it's a technical problem or if they just have a crappy setup in Washington.

oops, let me edit that, they're playing in Foxboro, I didn't even notice at first.

Patriots/Redskins game looks awesome like the London game. Watching both OTA and DISH Network KPTV Portland, OR. Nice to hear Kenny again.

Why does Fox even have sideline reporters? During the early Bears / Lions game they had Mike Hall on the sideline, he was heard from once and never seen.

why cant we get the pats/skins game here in new york?

Jets @home on CBS

4th quarter; 38-0; Brady still in the 'gun, slingin.' Ignore the fact that BB is a classless, cheating piece of trash...if Brady gets hurt, the second-guessing will be awful.

Now Brady unleashes a profane tirade at his linemen; after they gave him incredible protection!

Watching Pats/Skins. This is the best PQ that I have seen from FOX this entire year.

I can't wait until next week for the game of the year: Patriots vs. the Colts.

4th quarter; 38-0; Brady still in the 'gun, slingin.' Ignore the fact that BB is a classless, cheating piece of trash...if Brady gets hurt, the second-guessing will be awful.

45-0 now for the Cobra Kai Yankees.

After spygate every mediocre team in the league started crowing that the Pats only won because they cheated, Brady is overrated, etc
The Pat's are now living to stick it right back in their face. I agree, I don't want to see Brady get hurt in a meaningless quarter of play. As for the high scoring, that's tough s--t, they're professionals. I don't recall much crying when Peyton set the TD record, or when the Rams were 'The Greatest Show on Turf'
If it's any consolation to the Pats-haters, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Colts beat them, the Colts are simply incredible this year.

LOL, you got it GeorgeLV, I loved that article, it pretty much explained it all. I love that term, the Cobra Kai Yankees!!

I'm just disappointed that next week, I will likely be forced to watch that game from a sportsbar, because some network exec decided that my non-secondary market wants to watch the Oakland game instead.

I'm just disappointed that next week, I will likely be forced to watch that game from a sportsbar, because some network exec decided that my non-secondary market wants to watch the Oakland game instead.

That's just horrible and wrong! You guys should fire off a quick email campaign to your local affiliate. A couple of thousand emails over the next few days should wake them up to the obvious: Colts Vs Pats is the next biggest thing to the Superbowl.

WNYW-DT NYC Verizon FIOS

NO @ SF was turned on at 7pm. We did not have a 4pm game.
The main field cam looks very soft, almost like it's SD. The ground cams look fine.

During the Lions / Bears game FOX over used a piece of video of a ball being kicked into Lake Michigan. They were showing it to comment on its the only safe place to kick when Devin Hester is the return man, however, they used it almost every time. It was a good idea at first but heavily over used.

So, Coach B is mad at the world after having been caught cheating, and he's going to wear that chip on his shoulder all season? That's funny.

I congratulate the Pats players, who are performing superbly. But their coach is a poor excuse for a human being. He should be ashamed of himself, rather than angry at the world. I don't contend that the Pats' SB victories were due to their cheating; there is no evidence of that. If BB thinks his foul attitude is a cure for some misguided thinking along those lines, then he is a worse person than I even suspected.

I don't like the Pats one bit, or any boston team for that matter....but you sound like L.T.
Are you a Chargers fan?

But their coach is a poor excuse for a human being. He should be ashamed of himself, rather than angry at the world.Hardly. He's a great coach and as good a human being as anyone else.

He's always been terse. He's neither ashamed nor angry.

Hardly. He's a great coach and as good a human being as anyone else.

He's always been terse. He's neither ashamed nor angry.

LOL, I agree with you, it is just a game played by young millionaires, it's not like BB is killing people :P

Terse is one way to look at it, lol. Especially if you are a homer ;)
They did cheat.
But they are great.
He's as likeable as Andy Reid is...not very. But he's got a leg up on Reid in both rings and "terseness".

Just as soccer (Football to those of us this side of the pond) is trying to expand (again) in North America, (American) Football is trying to expand (again) into Europe. It is all about making more money, by getting more people to watch, selling more TV rights - for more money - globally, and getting more merchandising dollars/pounds at the end of the day... For this to work, of course, the sport itself has to be watchable.

How long before a UK Premiership match is played in the US rather than the UK for the same reasons? (After all - quite a few of our clubs have US ownership...)

As someone who grew up in the UK when Channel Four started to popularise (American) Football over here in the '80s, there is a strange sense of deja vu. It was really quite big when I was at school - with kids chosing to play versions of it over soccer, hockey (the grass version, not the ice version!) and rugby for a short while. Then it died out as quickly as it became popular.

Terse is one way to look at it, lol. Especially if you are a homer
They did cheat.
But they are great.
He's as likeable as Andy Reid is...not very. But he's got a leg up on Reid in both rings and "terseness".
Yeah, look at Tom Landry and Don Shula, those guys weren't exactly a barrel of laughs either. Vince Lombardi is only funny in hindsight, I'll bet nobody that played for him ever called him 'jolly'

Well, in your opinion(sneals) is there a 'real' desire for football in europe? Speciffically UK?

Well, in your opinion(sneals) is there a 'real' desire for football in europe? Speciffically UK?

Good question. Sneals, How was American Football received over there? It does seem unlikely that American Football is going to gain traction in the UK, nevermind some of the other places being targetted, such as China.

BB's problem is not related to terseness or lack of jovial personality. Comparing him to the great Tom Landry is outrageous. BB is a bad person because of his actions alone; there is no other measure by which one could be judged bad. His personality is what it is, and that's of no concern.

Like I said, I don't care one bit for the Pats or him...but what actions besides the filming?
Am I missing something?

Comparing him to the great Tom Landry is outrageous. BB is a bad person because of his actions aloneNope. He is a great coach and deserves to be compared to other great coaches. He is not a bad person, no matter how much you might want him to be.
His personality is what it is, and that's of no concern.Umm...wasn't it you who called him angry? If it's of no concern, then why did you bring it up?

I assume everyone realizes that the Pats will very likely go 19-0. The Colts have little or no chance of beating this team.

I gotta laugh...last week the so called experts were saying that this was going to be a "trap game" for the Pats. Tony Korn on PTI said " making the Patriots a 16 point favorite is an insult to Washington, they will win but I see it close..Pats by 3".

HAHAHAHAH!!!

Everyone should relax and enjoy what is truly an historic season and a historic team. Bill and Tom will get their 4th ring...the 07 Pats will be hailed as the greatest team in NFL history. The whiners will gnash their teeth and wail..

Tony Korn on PTI said " making the Patriots a 16 point favorite is an insult to Washington, they will win but I see it close..Pats by 3".
I gotta agree, and I can't wait until Monday on Around the Horn, when we'll hear about the Rockies losing the WS in 4, and on PTI when we'll hear what Kornheiser and Wilbon were smoking with regards to the Washington game. The touchdown was a gimmie, it shoulda been 52-0.

That being said, I lived in Indy for 4 years, and I will rightfully be cheering for the Colts in the game next week. I make no guarantees as to the final score, but the Colts will indeed show up to the game, and it should be high scoring.

Good question. Sneals, How was American Football received over there?


It was really popular here amongst teenagers and younger men in the 80s when Channel Four showed it at convenient viewing times. (Channel Four launched in 1982 and because the BBC and ITV had most sports rights, C4 had to find other sporting events to show - like American Football and the Tour de France etc.)

It was so popular with a decent audience that UK teams started springing up. Then C4 stopped showing it and it sort of died out pretty quickly.

Five (our 5th terrestrial network which launched in 1997) has been showing North American sports (Baseball and American Football) overnight as cheap filler programming, we have NASN (North American Sports Network) as a Pay-TV offering, and Sky show US sports on their (Pay-TV) Sky Sports service (including some HD stuff occasionally)

The BBC have the rights for the Superbowl which will be shown free-to-air live over here, and also had the highlights rights (they used Fox rather than Sky feeds AIUI - but it was 16:9 SD not HD) to the Wembley game, which was also shown free-to-air.


It does seem unlikely that American Football is going to gain traction in the UK, nevermind some of the other places being targetted, such as China.

Can't see American Football replacing Football (Soccer), Rugby (Union and League) and Cricket as our three main national sports to be honest.

The traditions of local soccer, cricket and rugby teams are as important (i.e. amateur teams that normal people play in) to this as the leagues of professional clubs. (Almost every town or village in England will have a rugby, football and cricket club - though cricket is less popular outside England.)

Umm...wasn't it you who called him angry? If it's of no concern, then why did you bring it up?

In context, I meant his personality was not relevant to my considering him "a bad person." That's based on his actions alone.
Yes, he has an angry personality, and that's not a good trait, but it's a different issue.

And the teams/owners that want this are from struggling teams who don't spend money, don't win and therefor don't take in much money.
The Pats, Cowboys and Eagles have no interest.

Yes Belichick is angry! Thanks to the morons who tried to diminish the accomplishments of him and his team this decade because of the spygate scandal that other teams were guilty of using as well. Now your seeing the result week after week and with no stopping till the season's over in February.

Just file this under the PAYBACK category , and I bet now all those people wish they had just STFU!

Well, they did take it to another level. A recording employee with a camera on the opposing teams sideline. I just want to know if they are so good(which they are) then why did they do this to this level of cheating?
Just doesn't make sense.
His reaction to getting caught was rather classless as well.
It's a good thing that they are as good as they are for his sake.

Yes Belichick is angry! Thanks to the morons who tried to diminish the accomplishments of him and his team this decade because of the spygate scandal that other teams were guilty of using as well. Now your seeing the result week after week and with no stopping till the season's over in February.

Just file this under the PAYBACK category , and I bet now all those people wish they had just STFU!

Thank you for illustrating the mindset of so many New Englanders. Had I posted this as a parody of such people, my post would have been dismissed as over-the-top and cruel. But now it will be believed as accurately reflective of the perverse mindset at play there.

If BB were a decent person, he'd be ashamed of himself, rather than angry at others. The "spygate scandal" was 100% BB's doing. He did it. He got caught. If he feels he needs to exact "PAYBACK" for his bad actions, then he is not merely a cheater, but also psychotic. That is sad.

I just want to know if they are so good(which they are) then why did they do this to this level of cheating?

The answer is as obvious as it is distressing. BB has demonstrated a pathological need to cheat, even when his talented players made the "need" for such nonsense virtually nil.

Thank you for illustrating the mindset of so many New Englanders. Had I posted this as a parody of such people, my post would have been dismissed as over-the-top and cruel. But now it will be believed as accurately reflective of the perverse mindset at play there.

If BB were a decent person, he'd be ashamed of himself, rather than angry at others. The "spygate scandal" was 100% BB's doing. He did it. He got caught. If he feels he needs to exact "PAYBACK" for his bad actions, then he is not merely a cheater, but also psychotic. That is sad.

You can call him whatever you want but since you seem to believe that it is only all the bad things he has done that has led to his success you can see where anger might come in to play here.

BTW he accepted full responsibility and issued an apology to the organization, players, and fans for something many other teams do as well only he got caught and he still took the punishment without blaming others. What else is he suppose to do? So now by winning football games by large margins translates into meaning he is a bad person. To some like yourself his image has been tarnished whether it's deserving or not and the only way to prove people wrong on their perception of him is to go out and win football games.

And thats something he seems very good at whether you agree with his style or not.

Lodef, your post #77 deserves some answers:

1. I do not believe, nor have I contended, that "it is only all the bad things [BB] has done that has led to his success." I do not even connect this cheating scandal to the Patriots SuperBowl victories, as I have yet to see any evidence linking those things.

2. The "many other teams do [cheat] as well" argument has to stop. I have seen nothing to back that up, and it's the kind of deflection and projection that gives New Englanders a bad rep.

3. I do not claim "winning football games by large margins translates into meaning he is a bad person." This looks like another strawman argument to rebut my contentions. That adds nothing, but does tend to discredit your contentions. As for BB running up the score on teams, I do think that is poor coaching strategy (but not a reflection of bad character, necessarily). It is poor strategy, IMO, because leaving the superstars in during slop-time adds 0% to the likelihood of securing the win (already secured), but adds something greater than 0% to the likelihood of a superstar getting injured. It may stir "bad blood" as well, but that's another story. An analogy I read: If a baseball team is up big in the bottom of the 8th, but they are bunting and stealing bases, expect the next batter to face some "chin music."

4. The Patriots winning football games will do nothing to restore BB's reputation with me. BB changing his behavior, and expressing contrition vice anger for his own wrong actions--those would restore his reputation with me. The Patriots winning game affects my opinion thus: I think they are very talented.

Lodef, your post #77 deserves some answers:

1. I do not believe, nor have I contended, that "it is only all the bad things [BB] has done that has led to his success." I do not even connect this cheating scandal to the Patriots SuperBowl victories, as I have yet to see any evidence linking those things.

2. The "many other teams do [cheat] as well" argument has to stop. I have seen nothing to back that up, and it's the kind of deflection and projection that gives New Englanders a bad rep.

3. I do not claim "winning football games by large margins translates into meaning he is a bad person." This looks like another strawman argument to rebut my contentions. That adds nothing, but does tend to discredit your contentions. As for BB running up the score on teams, I do think that is poor coaching strategy (but not a reflection of bad character, necessarily). It is poor strategy, IMO, because leaving the superstars in during slop-time adds 0% to the likelihood of securing the win (already secured), but adds something greater than 0% to the likelihood of a superstar getting injured. It may stir "bad blood" as well, but that's another story. An analogy I read: If a baseball team is up big in the bottom of the 8th, but they are bunting and stealing bases, expect the next batter to face some "chin music."

4. The Patriots winning football games will do nothing to restore BB's reputation with me. BB changing his behavior, and expressing contrition vice anger for his own wrong actions--those would restore his reputation with me. The Patriots winning game affects my opinion thus: I think they are very talented.

So what are you saying? Is he a great coach or not? Is he a bad person or not? Can he be both of the above?

I guess the bottom line is you just don't like the guy, Oh well.

PS: You can have all the talent in the world but without a good coach it will not work! ;)

BB is a successful coach, but not a "great coach." Is he a bad person? To me, I consider him so. Could he be a "bad person" and a "great coach?" at once? Not to my way of thinking. These are my opinions.

Your bottom line is accurate. Oh well. I'm sure BB would lose no sleep over my low opinion of him.

Could these Pats succeed with their talent and a less-successful coach? That's speculative, of course, but I think they would win with their current line-up, even if a less-successful coach was at the helm.

So, I acknowledge BB has been successful, at least.

It is poor strategy, IMO, because leaving the superstars in during slop-time adds 0% to the likelihood of securing the win (already secured), but adds something greater than 0% to the likelihood of a superstar getting injured.

This is an argument I dont get, if he were to take all the starters out when they were way up, halftime at most of this years games, arent you now affecting the stamina of your players? I can see once in a while when you get way up like they were yestarday taking them out early in the fourth but not when they go way up every week.

What should they do lay over? Do you think the guys on the other side of the ball want to know that they were handed some points? If I'm a football player I want to go out there knowing I am gettting the best from my opponent and if I lose then I know I lost giving it my best against their best.

What is this pop warner(sp?) Do you want a mercy rule now too??

BB is a successful coach, but not a "great coach." Is he a bad person? To me, I consider him so. Could he be a "bad person" and a "great coach?" at once? Not to my way of thinking. These are my opinions.

Your bottom line is accurate. Oh well. I'm sure BB would lose no sleep over my low opinion of him.

Could these Pats succeed with their talent and a less-successful coach? That's speculative, of course, but I think they would win with their current line-up, even if a less-successful coach was at the helm.

So, I acknowledge BB has been successful, at least.

Dude - take a chill pill. You sound like a religious fanatic on a personal crusade going after some "god-less heathen." Its just game and in this game of football BB is the best coach period.

Back to the thread topic - Fox HD broadcast of the Pats/Skins game looked great.

Cin0s3, everything is a trade-off. There are conditioning drills that don't involve getting smashed by a three-hundred pound opponent.

I don't support a "mercy rule," and my explanation of why I disagree with BB's full-throttle 4Q strategy does not hint at any mercy rule.

BB will never be "the best coach period." Period. I'd pick Coach Dungy for my start-from-scratch NFL team right now. All-time, I'd have taken Coach Landry.

BB will never be "the best coach period." Period. I'd pick Coach Dungy for my start-from-scratch NFL team right now. All-time, I'd have taken Coach Landry.

Dungy is a very good coach and Landry was great, no arguments there. BB will join him in the Hall soon.

BB will never be "the best coach period." Period. I'd pick Coach Dungy for my start-from-scratch NFL team right now. All-time, I'd have taken Coach Landry.

Picking Dungy over Bill shows your lack of knowledge after all. So I guess your a Cowboys fan because your bias of Landry as best ever proves that. There are some others I would put on a list before him, namely Lombardi, Noll, Walsh and yes your favorite Belichick. But I would expect nothing less from a Boys fan and knowing you have Philips and we have Bill only makes me feel your argument now is nothing more but envy and I would bet if you asked your fellow Cowboy fans who they would rather have as a coach, I think you would know what the answer would be.

BTW I hope they meet in the Superbowl this year, as a Pats fan I would very much like my chances.

Any fan of the Skins during the George Allen years will tell you how Allen was so paranoid that Landry planted spies around Redskins Park, that he had people patrolling the perimeter of the practice field daily. The idea that Belichick is the only one to ever do something questionable is ridiculous. That’s like saying Nixon was the first president to do questionable things. Belichick just got caught.

About running up the score: As a Skins fan witnessing the beat down; don’t blame the other team for scoring; blame the team that isn’t doing their job to stop them.

The DD 5.1 is good (though I unplug the center channel so I don't to listen to the commentary).

Toggle your audio channel-language sometime during a NFL game on FOX and see what you get. :)

Kraft didn't seem to like what was going on though.
BB is on an ego trip, no suprise.
It is the defense's job to stop them, yes, but the other team could have some class and run the clock down instead of a frantic pace trying to score more when the game was firmly decide with no chance of a comeback possible. Or at least not passing left and right.

BB is no Walsh though.

Guilty as charged on the Landry bias. When I was a kid in Kentucky, Coach Landry and Roger Staubach came to my little hometown to speak at a church. They stayed at my cousin's house, and I got to meet them. That's why I am a Cowboys fan. I don't expect to meet to finer human beings, but I'm so honored to have met those two.

Steve Young had interesting observations tonight in the pregame about Coach B's decisions. He said he'd like to be talking about the superlative play of the Patriots team members, but the talk is all about BB on his vindictive rampage since the scandal. BB has become a distraction to his own team's greatness on the field.

BTW I hope they [Pokes/Pats] meet in the Superbowl this year, as a Pats fan I would very much like my chances.

Your Patriots have already proven that their level of performance on the field this season is superior to that of my Cowboys. So you should like your chances. But in the SuperBowl, anything is possible...

The Patriots winning football games will do nothing to restore BB's reputation with me. Somehow, I don't think this is keeping Belichick up nights...

Steve Young had interesting observations tonight in the pregame about Coach B's decisions. .

Young also said in the post game interview that the Patriots were the greatest team he had ever seen and that as of now there is no team in the NFL who can beat them.

Cowgirls aren't making it anyway. Their decline started with the loss to the Pats and continues next weekend.

I think there's a real decent chance the Colts could beat the Pats this week. I think the Patriots might be a little bit better than Indy, but I think teams have been laying down against the Pats, and Indy isn't going to lay down. I think the Pats might get shocked and thrown off their game plan. I predict and Indy win now, and then Pats crush the Colts in the Playoffs.

I think teams have been laying down against the PatsWhy would teams do that? Beating the Pats would be a huge win---motivating and newsworthy. I would think that they'd give it everything they had to beat them...

If the Colts did beat the Pats this weekend, that would be the most helpful thing for the Pats overall. They will not be challenged in the weakest division in the history of the NFL (this year's AFC East), and might be convinced that they are untouchable. Then in the playoffs, it could spell their doom.

Oh, and Amnesia, the Pats are performing well, but beating them would not be all you say. The sad fact for the players on NE's team this season is that their excellence is being tarnished by BB's rottenness.

If the Colts did beat the Pats this weekend, that would be the most helpful thing for the Pats overall. They will not be challenged in the weakest division in the history of the NFL (this year's AFC East), and might be convinced that they are untouchable. Then in the playoffs, it could spell their doom.

Oh, and Amnesia, the Pats are performing well, but beating them would not be all you say. The sad fact for the players on NE's team this season is that their excellence is being tarnished by BB's rottenness.

Check the NE players' quotes from after the SanDiego game - they love their coach and their performance further demonstrates their support.

Glad to know you are a Cowboys fan though. I figured you were either Cowboys or Jets to hate BB so much. Oh and on the Steve Young quote, he is one of the only ones who is on your moral crusade against Belichick, it is widely known that he hates BB for BB admitting in the past that he thought the Giants had a better chance of winning with Montana out. And as usual he was right.

Wait till the Pats get a hold of the Jets in December now you talk about running up a score.

Sometime teams lay down when they feel there's no hope. I don't mean to say teams that could beat the Pats lay down, just that teams sometimes find themselves down by 2 touchdowns by the middle of 2nd qtr and realize they ain't gonna win. Defenses collapse in this case especially if they have no faith in their offense.
Teams used to lay down so bad to the Packers when they hit their peak late 90s. Packers D would maul the offense, and you could see those team's defense just slump.

Used to see it all the time when the Cowboys were at their peak early mid 90s. Fourth qtr, Dallas would pound the ball play after play, I swear they would run the same running play 5 times in a row and get 5 yards a run. They'd pull Emmit Smith out, put in backup RB, and he'd get 5 yards a run. The defenses looked like they were just taking a knee for 15 minutes.

Oh, and Amnesia, the Pats are performing well, but beating them would not be all you say.If you read my post, my question was as to why someone might think that teams are not going all out against the Pats.

The sad fact for the players on NE's team this season is that their excellence is being tarnished by BB's rottenness.Obviously they're tarnished to you. However, most people neither think that Belichick is "rotten" nor that the Pats are "tarnished".

When are you going to stop this vendetta against Belichick? Can you try to hold off negative comments for one week? Give that a try...

Well, seeing as how this is an HDTV forum and not a sports forum... I think Bill Belichick is ugly and I hate seeing him on my High Definition Television. Let's see more of the cheerleaders!

Oh, and also, the Patriots smell.

[QUOTE=Amnesia;12057012]

However, most people neither think that Belichick is "rotten" nor that the Pats are "tarnished".

QUOTE]


That is not true though. You are too far into the woods.

I should correct myself, since my post before has been misunderstood. I said, "The sad fact for the players on NE's team this season is that their excellence is being tarnished by BB's rottenness." I did not mean that the players' excellence is actually diminished, nor that the players themselves are lessened by this; rather, Coach B's actions are distracting attention away from their success and premier performance.

Coach B's actions are distracting attention away from their success and premier performance.Your actions.

I bet that if you stopped bad-mouthing Belichick, the negative comments on this thread would significantly decrease---thereby reducing the distraction.

Give it a try!

Translating post 106: IAM4UK, I disagree with you, so shut up!

I clarified my statement because my statement was apparently unclear, not due to "negative comments."

Translating post 106: IAM4UK, I disagree with you, so shut up!Not at all!

I'm just asking if it's possible for you to avoid negative comments for a week. That's all.

Hey, if you can't do it, you can't...

Okay, Amnesia, I'll provide a positive comment: 31 NFL head coaches are performing their jobs admirably, and are to be commended. ;)

The Pats are running up the score? Yes!

People are just afraid of how many records they're going to break.

The NFL is a mans sport and those lil girly players crying after taking a beaten is pathetic and they should be ashamed of themselves for the score and the crying. THERE'S NO CRYING IN FOOTBALL!

The Pats are running up the price on tissue? Yes!

Hey now, Heynow. Most folks talking down the Pats are not faulting the players (who are performing with excellence) but the coach for deciding to vent his apparent anger after having been caught cheating.

ESPN just released their new Power Rankings, and their blurb on their #1 Patriots categorized Coach B's decisions to leave the stars in during slop-time thus (and I quote): "stupid" and "stubborn."

That's a negative comment, but it's not mine; it's ESPN's.

Hey now, Heynow. Most folks talking down the Pats are not faulting the players (who are performing with excellence) but the coach for deciding to vent his apparent anger after having been caught cheating.

ESPN just released their new Power Rankings, and their blurb on their #1 Patriots categorized Coach B's decisions to leave the stars in during slop-time thus (and I quote): "stupid" and "stubborn."

That's a negative comment, but it's not mine; it's ESPN's.

BB was always like this. Him like many coaches HATE the media and for good reason. ESPN sometimes is like the Enquirer and other media outlets are always looking for negative, so BB keeps it as simple as possible. There are many well respected coaches, players and people who say BB is a great guy and funny too. Why don't we take them for their word instead of some dumb a$$ reporters?

I can see why some people may get the wrong idea about Bill, but remember the media hates him because he feeds them NOTHING and in return they bash him - most players/coaches praise him.

BB was always like this. Him like many coaches HATE the media and for good reason. ESPN sometimes is like the Enquirer and other media outlets are always looking for negative, so BB keeps it as simple as possible. There are many well respected coaches, players and people who say BB is a great guy and funny too. Why don't we take them for their word instead of some dumb a$$ reporters?

I can see why some people may get the wrong idea about Bill, but remember the media hates him because he feeds them NOTHING and in return they bash him - most players/coaches praise him.

Very, Very, true!

It's a funny subject. They've been talking a lot about it on ESPN and opinions vary--and occasionally surprise me. Some say it's unsportsman like, others say 'It's the NFL, it's up to the teams to stop them' etc.

What has surprised me are some of the people who don't mind it: Mike Ditka for instance took the 'screw them, this is a man's game' approach, so did a few other Old School coaches/players.

I suppose there's two real issues, and different people weigh the two issues differently: Sportsmanship Vs smart tactics (the risk of starters getting injured)

I think BB is wrong based on the risk of perhaps Brady getting injured. Of course injuries can happen on any play, but fewer plays equals less risk.

As for sportsmanship, it seems to be mostly based primarily on a combination of whether you like the Pats and/or hate the team that's getting their ass kicked. Pat's fans kinda like it. Folks who *hate* the team getting rocked tend to like it too. It seems like mostly fans of the downtrodden teams and people who hate the Pats have the problem with it. BTW, I don't mean that in an insulting or dismissive way, there's nothing wrong with hating the Pats and letting that influence your thinking. I hated the Cowboys in the 90s, and trust me everything they did pissed me off in an exaggerated manner. It's sports and we're human! ;)