Study economics for five seconds and you see the importance of prices. I think some people here are so hung-up on technical trivialities and studio politics that they can't see what would be blatantly obvious to any outsider: both formats are functionally identical in sound and picture, and they have pretty even studio support.

IOW, treating HDM as a commodity, we find both competitors have virtually even quality and quantity, meaning supply is the same, or can be treated as the same for basic economic purposes. This makes the demand of the consumer the deciding factor.

Not enough people are willing to pay $300-$400 for a player in order to make HDM successfuly enough that HD-users can get any content they want on HDM at prices close to what we were paying for DVDs--and that is our goal, right? Replacing DVD is nice, but as long as we are getting the content we want at a price not significantly higher than DVD (or matching DVD's price), we're happy, right?

The cost of the player is just the barrier to being able to buy (and use) the movies, and the higher the barrier cost, the more people are turned away. The lower the barrier cost, the more people are willing to pay it to buy the discs. As barrier costs go gown, the amount of people willing to pay them grows exponentially, not geometrically. You can add increasingly less important value to a product by making it a game machine, or adding lossless PCM to everything, or things of that nature, but adding value above the basic features (movie playback) isn't what people want. Or more accurately, it's not what *enough* people want in order to make HDM the success we want it to be.

What I'm saying is that player prices *have* to be lower than they are now for HDM to be successful. Player prices this black Friday are approaching the prices of normal upconverters. I'm amazed by the number of HD fans on this and other boards who think that player prices are a triviality. Like many economic issues, HDM has been clouded by issues that have little or no bearing on the heart of the matter. Regardless of format, this holds true: player prices will be the deciding factor this holiday season.

As long as there are HDTVs, there will be demand for HDM. Right now, prices of players are not low enough so that enough people will be willing to pay, which leads many to think that there just isn't enough demand, a common misconception about demand in general. Just because prices haven't come down to the level of demand, doesn't mean the demand doesn't exist. I also see people speculating that if a person won't pay $300-$400 for a player, they won't pay $30 for a movie.

For one, $30 is ten bucks more than the normal price for a new DVD. $300-$400 is hundreds of dollars more than what people would be prepared to pay for a DVD player, even an upconverting one. For another, lots of people rent and there is no extra charge for renting the HD version (at least not on Netflix). For another another, stores compete on pricing. I rarely see discs at full MSRP, except in Target. Wal-Mart, and even Best Buy, typically have much more competitive pricing than the MSRP.

Prices, prices, prices. Let's all be realistic about the matter and not get hung up on technical issues that 99% of people don't care about and won't base their purchasing decisions on.

I personally don't want HDM to be too successful. It's fine where it is and keeps focus on quality. One it goes mainstream and J6P gets too involved we'll see many more sub-par releases percentage wise.

I personally don't want HDM to be too successful. It's fine where it is and keeps focus on quality. One it goes mainstream and J6P gets too involved we'll see many more sub-par releases percentage wise.

I don't think this is necessarily true. The quality of DVD has increased and still offers some surprises after being the dominant format for almost 10 years. Once you hit a point of quality, it's hard to go below that and have people find that acceptable.

It's almost christmas. Which ever one Oprah gives away on her show is going to win the format war.(You all know that's totally true)

It has always been about two things; price and installed user base. Some like to pretend that price does no matter, but Warner would disagree:

"It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware. If they sell through everything they ship, and it’s a big number at the price points that are coming out, then I think [HD DVD] will be around for a long time. If they don’t, then it could go Blu-ray’s way. But Toshiba is getting very, very aggressive on pricing, which is putting pressure on Blu-ray player manufacturers to bring prices down. As a content company we just want more hardware in the homes. So what ever drives more hardware is good to see. Right now it looks like there is price pressure on both sides because there are two formats — more pressure than there would be if there was only one format. So, for our interests, more razors means we’ll sell more razor blades down the road." Warner President Ron Sanders

If you look around you will find two types of people on these forums that say price does not matter; well-to-do HT freaks with cash to burn and 17-year-olds with PS3s they didn't pay for. That's about it. People that paid for their BD Players know price matters and that's why so many of them have been buying HD DVD Players in recent months because there is no point in denying yourself access to the over 10,000 potential HD DVD exclusive films when you can buy in at $200. That's about the price of 5 Fox BDs.

I know if there was a fully functional Profile 2.0 compliant Blu-ray player out there for less than $200 I'd buy one. That's why this 4th quarter is so critical; either people will buy off on the Blu-ray FUD and believe that HD DVD is dead or they won't. In the case of the former I doubt those people will buy a Blu-ray Player either because the price point is too high and there is still a chance that BD could fail. In the case of the later they will buy an HD DVD Player because the price is probably lower than the first DVD Player or VCR they purchased.

If Toshiba can move 400,000 stand-alones Q4 BD will be lucky to hold the NPD sales advantage they've had all this year for a single week. Then the perception that the BDA tried to paint about HD DVD all this year (it's dead) will swing against them. In otherwords an installed base of over 800,000 HD DVD Players + American Gangster + BeoWulf + Bee Movie = A LOT of Blu-bois tears.

Study economics for five seconds and you see the importance of prices.

That statement insinuates that you only need to study economics for 5 seconds.....botta bing, botta boom......it's all prices.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Way more to it, obviously.

That statement insinuates that you only need to study economics for 5 seconds.....botta bing, botta boom......it's all prices.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Way more to it, obviously.

I didn't think I was implying that at all! :( Folks, study economics for *more* than five seconds.

But prices are extremely important in market theory, probably the biggest application of economics, hmm?

If you look around you will find two types of people on these forums that say price does not matter; well-to-do HT freaks with cash to burn and 17-year-olds with PS3s they didn't pay for.


:D


Thankfully, content providers like WB are doing more than taking a cursory glance at statistics and projections. You can make terrible mistakes looking at simple statistics when more complex ones tell a very different story.

But prices are extremely important in market theory, probably the biggest application of economics, hmm?

People forget about the fet the mass DVD adoption came when players hit a certian price...and in that case the qulity differnce between DVD and VHS was much bigger then we see today with HD DVD/BD and DVD.

Looking at prices from a different perspective, I was in my local Wal-Mart last night, and for the first time ever, they are carrying Blu-Ray and HD DVD. Pleasantly surprised, I looked them over, considering getting a title. Their selection was rather limited; about the only disk I wanted which I didn't already own or have on its way from Amazon (Transformers), was 300. So I looked at the price for the HD version - $29; for the Blu-Ray, $24. If the HD version was $24, I probably would have bought it. But I'm not going paying $30 for a movie, except in a few cases for one of my favorites. By making 300 a combo disc, they lost a sale.

Price will be the deciding factor IF and WHEN everyone wants to own an HDM player. I don't have the statistics handy, but first of all, not everyone owns a HDTV, and it will still be a few more years at the very least before they are common place. Sure you and I have them, and many on these boards, but we all obviously have an interest in AV.

The PS3 is the only thing keeping BD afloat (in terms of winning media sales) right now. And considering how lackluster PS3 sales have been, that only means HD-DVD player sales are worse.

It will be interesting to see how the aggressive price cutting strategy for Toshiba plays out. Sony's PS3 got burned by being too pricy relative to other gaming consoles, and I think they're too far behind WII and Xbox 360. You would think they have learned their lesson by now and lower the Blu-ray player prices. But again, unless the masses are in the market for an HDM player, Sony has time on their side to reduce their prices.

Most stores are carrying more BD than HD-DVD. To some consumers, that might indicate HD-DVD is losing (and in terms of hardware and software sales they are), so they might stay away from HD-DVD players thinking they're being discounted to clear them out.

Price will not decide for many reasons and here are a couple. J6P doesn't understand why he can't watch Spiderman in HD on the cheep HD player and/or he wants to have all his equipment matching and he didn't choose Toshiba.

Price will not decide for many reasons and here are a couple. J6P doesn't understand why he can't watch Spiderman in HD on the cheep HD player and/or he wants to have all his equipment matching and he didn't choose Toshiba.

..so he'll say "F it" and buy the regular DVD.

People forget about the fet the mass DVD adoption came when players hit a certian price...and in that case the qulity differnce between DVD and VHS was much bigger then we see today with HD DVD/BD and DVD.

Yes, but one didnt have to buy all new (expensive) gear to enjoy it!
Many j6p's are just NOW up-grading to DVD!!! Many think DVD is ALLREADY high definition!! Who is going to convince them to up-grade yet again? And how?

..so he'll say "F it" and buy the regular DVD.


BINGO!! :D

Price is absolutely the deciding factor in this war. And the price point is nowhere near where it needs to be before HDM becomes a factor for J6P.

My theory: Price needs to drop to standard DVD player/software prices before it matters (and we are years away from when this will happen).

Consider:

It took DVD nearly 10 years to surpass VCR in player penetration. This didn't happen until end of 2006! (1)
After 5 years of availability, DVD player penetration was at about 40%.
A Dec. 2005 study showed that 92% of HDTV owners were not watching any HD content (2).


J6P is going to buy an HDM player (either one, doesn't matter) when he walks into Wal-Mart and he can buy either (a) a DVD player for $50 or (b) HDM player for $70. Then he'll think that for $20 more he gets a better player; and he's only buying a new player because his last one just broke. J6P is not replacing something that still works. Then, when J6P sees Spider-Man 5 on Blu-Ray for $18, but on DVD for $12, he'll get the DVD version because it's still cheaper.

I also think that the gov't mandated digital broadcasting will do little to move this thing along either, because most people's cable providers will convert the digital signal to analog for them anyway.

(1) http://www.metrics2.com/blog/2006/12/19/dvd_players_surpass_vcrs_pc73_cell_phone_76_penetr.html
(2) http://www.techliberation.com/archives/027416.php

Logically one would think it would be a major factor but HD DVD players are cheaper yet BD software sales still are higher.

prices are part of the deciding factor. but not the final one.

It all comes down to only 1 thing. you can ask microsoft this.

it is about software.

software is ultimate the deciding factor.

so in that case it means what kind of movies are available.

why you think Toshiba paid good coin to paramount to get Transformers.

HD-DVd could put their players at 99 usa dollars and it would still not sell without any good movies that the general public wants.

same as for the ipod. why was the ipod so much a succes over the rest. because of the ipod music store even ipods are much more expensive then the chinese look a like versions.

why is windows still the leading software, while linux is for free! and so i can go on and on.

i never studied economics. but i know pretty well that prices alone are not the deciding factor.

if that was true then why do people rather have a Nintendo DS then chinese gameboy for 10 dollar. it is because of the nintendo games that are on it.

I personally don't want HDM to be too successful. It's fine where it is and keeps focus on quality. One it goes mainstream and J6P gets too involved we'll see many more sub-par releases percentage wise.

thats dumb.
if hdm stays where it is ...its history.
the studios and ce"s dont want it to stay where it is.
they want to make money...no money, no hdm as we know it.

It's almost christmas. Which ever one Oprah gives away on her show is going to win the format war.(You all know that's totally true)

you got to be joking.
what the hell does oprah got to do with it:D

you got to be joking.
what the hell does oprah got to do with it:D

Oprah's got a lot to do with it. This would never happen, but if Oprah said that HD DVD was better than Blu-Ray on her show, HD DVD would hands down win the format war. She has that much sway over middle America.

For me price is only part of the deciding factor....not the final deciding factor.

You can be the cheapest format but if your movie pq and selection suck balls....I'm not buying.
So price is not the only thing that matters.

People forget about the fet the mass DVD adoption came when players hit a certian price...and in that case the qulity differnce between DVD and VHS was much bigger then we see today with HD DVD/BD and DVD.

wow i you had me till your last statement.
i see a big differance with hdm over dvd.
and if you dont its the source not the players.
theres some bad looking discs out there.

I LOVE the format war. It allows me to add tons of discs to my library at cheap prices. I'm format neutral with an A2 and a 60GB PS3.

Once you make the initial hardware investment, the discs are so much cheaper than they would have been otherwise. I've gotten 8 free from purchasing the players themselves alone (3 free w/ A2 last year, 5 free w/ PS3 this year.)

I bought TONS thanks to the BOGO sale a few weeks ago, that only existed due to the war.

Price is absolutely the deciding factor in this war. And the price point is nowhere near where it needs to be before HDM becomes a factor for J6P.

My theory: Price needs to drop to standard DVD player/software prices before it matters (and we are years away from when this will happen).

Consider:

It took DVD nearly 10 years to surpass VCR in player penetration. This didn't happen until end of 2006! (1)
After 5 years of availability, DVD player penetration was at about 40%.
A Dec. 2005 study showed that 92% of HDTV owners were not watching any HD content (2).


J6P is going to buy an HDM player (either one, doesn't matter) when he walks into Wal-Mart and he can buy either (a) a DVD player for $50 or (b) HDM player for $70. Then he'll think that for $20 more he gets a better player; and he's only buying a new player because his last one just broke. J6P is not replacing something that still works. Then, when J6P sees Spider-Man 5 on Blu-Ray for $18, but on DVD for $12, he'll get the DVD version because it's still cheaper.

I also think that the gov't mandated digital broadcasting will do little to move this thing along either, because most people's cable providers will convert the digital signal to analog for them anyway.

(1) http://www.metrics2.com/blog/2006/12/19/dvd_players_surpass_vcrs_pc73_cell_phone_76_penetr.html
(2) http://www.techliberation.com/archives/027416.php

Yeah, j6p will walk into Kmart and buy a player (probably the one the sales drone is pushing at the time), then what? That's only the beginning. Does he have a HDTV capable of the correct rez? What about receiver and speakers?
In the end it's going to cost our j6p a few grand just to get his feet wet. How many non-HT geeks are going to schell out that kind of $$$$
I know HDTV prices are going down all the time. Lots of great deals will be had come Holiday season. But I think j6p will have other priorities with his money :eek:
Not everybody wants, needs or cares about this level of technology.

Price will not decide for many reasons and here are a couple. J6P doesn't understand why he can't watch Spiderman in HD on the cheep HD player and/or he wants to have all his equipment matching and he didn't choose Toshiba.

so jp6 are idoits that know noting about anything.
you can say that because of your interest is hdm.
you learned about hdm etc.
my point is you were jp6 at one time. until you got knowledge.
they can to and be just as smart as you are.
there may be a jp6 person at this site now trying to learn something.
if they see a commit like yours it may turn them off.
we need to be more aware of this and keep our egos in check.

Oprah's got a lot to do with it. This would never happen, but if Oprah said that HD DVD was better than Blu-Ray on her show, HD DVD would hands down win the format war. She has that much sway over middle America.

i see your point.
but you can see by this thread and the different options thats not true.
oprah wont help and if shes smart like i think she is ..she will stay out of this war.
besides jay leno said somthing about blu-ray a while back and made no difference in winning this war.

so jp6 are idoits that know noting about anything.
you can say that because of your interest is hdm.
you learned about hdm etc.
my point is you were jp6 at one time. until you got knowledge.
they can to and be just as smart as you are.
there may be a jp6 person at this site now trying to learn something.
if they see a commit like yours it may turn them off.
we need to be more aware of this and keep our egos in check.

If j6p is hanging out on this forum, I would think he already knows something. He certainly has an interest. So he isnt j6p anymore! :)

For me price is only part of the deciding factor....not the final deciding factor.

You can be the cheapest format but if your movie pq and selection suck balls....I'm not buying.
So price is not the only thing that matters.
:cool: You mean like the new format
HD VMD:rolleyes:

J6P will be diving into HDM with the under $200 A2's.
He/she will also buy HD DVD's.

God Bless Walmart and J6P.

I personally don't want HDM to be too successful. It's fine where it is and keeps focus on quality. One it goes mainstream and J6P gets too involved we'll see many more sub-par releases percentage wise.
I heard that said in the early days of DVD. I don't hear many hearken back to some "golden age" of early releases, though, quality has gotten better in general.
Anyway, HT is mainstream J6P, this ain't perfectionist vinyl or something.

I think I represent a pretty large segment of the U.S. Not "J6P" (took me a while to figure out what that meant...lol), but a step above.

My situation: I love movies. I rarely go to the movies anymore. I do not like paying more than $10 for a DVD. I know about HD, but I am by no means a audiophile or videophile. I know HD-DVD/BD looks better than DVD, but I am not sure by how much. I had no attachment to either format and fully intended on sitting out the fight for another year or however long it took until either one of two things happened:

1,) One format won out and I would purchase whatever won.

2.) It got to the point that it looked like there was no real winner and that both would stick around and that both battling reduced prices to the point that I would buy.

I had no intention of making the HD jump until I came across the HD-A2 deal on Amazon where I got an HD player, 3 good movies (300, Departed, Letters From Iwo Jima) and 5 more free, so 8 total for about $210, and I got a great upconverting player. So, I made the jump, only because I rationalized what I was spending for what I was getting.

Price, of course, is not the only consideration, but it is a big one. Yea, the retired couple that walks into WalMart doesn't have a clue...but Sony/M$ does not care about that consumer. They are going after poeple like me - people who like movies and will pay a reasonable cost for them.

If HD-DVD was smart, they would release every feature as a combo, but keep the price no more than $25. Market it so that those who don't know any better and just want the DVD can use it as well as those who haven't made a choice yet. That way they are only getting more, taking no risk, etc. If they did that, I think BD would go bye-bye.

Honestly, what I see happening is that both formats will be around for a long time, which is good for consumers, as their wars means our gains.

Just my opinion.

I think I represent a pretty large segment of the U.S. Not "J6P" (took me a while to figure out what that meant...lol), but a step above.

My situation: I love movies. I rarely go to the movies anymore. I do not like paying more than $10 for a DVD. I know about HD, but I am by no means a audiophile or videophile. I know HD-DVD/BD looks better than DVD, but I am not sure by how much. I had no attachment to either format and fully intended on sitting out the fight for another year or however long it took until either one of two things happened:

1,) One format won out and I would purchase whatever won.

2.) It got to the point that it looked like there was no real winner and that both would stick around and that both battling reduced prices to the point that I would buy.

I had no intention of making the HD jump until I came across the HD-A2 deal on Amazon where I got an HD player, 3 good movies (300, Departed, Letters From Iwo Jima) and 5 more free, so 8 total for about $210, and I got a great upconverting player. So, I made the jump, only because I rationalized what I was spending for what I was getting.

Price, of course, is not the only consideration, but it is a big one. Yea, the retired couple that walks into WalMart doesn't have a clue...but Sony/M$ does not care about that consumer. They are going after poeple like me - people who like movies and will pay a reasonable cost for them.

If HD-DVD was smart, they would release every feature as a combo, but keep the price no more than $25. Market it so that those who don't know any better and just want the DVD can use it as well as those who haven't made a choice yet. That way they are only getting more, taking no risk, etc. If they did that, I think BD would go bye-bye.

Honestly, what I see happening is that both formats will be around for a long time, which is good for consumers, as their wars means our gains.

Just my opinion.

just to let you know.
i was in bestbuy the other day and stood right next to a [retired]guy
and he had at least 10 blu-ray discs in his hand.
so much for retired people,not having a clue.

just to let you know.
i was in bestbuy the other day and stood right next to a [retired]guy
and he had at least 10 blu-ray discs in his hand.
so much for retired people,not having a clue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Yea, because that example represents most elderly/retired people...lol... It never ceases to amaze me...

Oprah's got a lot to do with it. This would never happen, but if Oprah said that HD DVD was better than Blu-Ray on her show, HD DVD would hands down win the format war. She has that much sway over middle America.

Sheer nonsense.

J6P will be diving into HDM with the under $200 A2's.
He/she will also buy HD DVD's.

God Bless Walmart and J6P.
Correct!

For me price is only part of the deciding factor....not the final deciding factor.

You can be the cheapest format but if your movie pq and selection suck balls....I'm not buying.
So price is not the only thing that matters.

Rather crudely put....but I think this is right. Walmart could have HD-DVD players for $100 on display and this would be tempting until you peruse the mediocre high priced limited software selection on the same shelf and there goes any spontanious sale. So, it boils down to price AND selection. Can you imagine the spontanious sales that would take place if $100 Hd players were placed next to reasonably priced HD-DVD discs of TITANIC, BRAVEHEART, and titles of this sort. Katie bar the door...;)

Price wasn't the deciding factor in the Betamax vs VHS war, Porn was! I'm not trying to insinuate that Porn will win this war for one side or the other, just making a point that price is not always the deciding factor when it comes to non-essential items. If that was the case, the cheapest car manufacturers would have the largest installed base. And THAT'S not the case.

And as far as Oprah is concerned, she doesn't have to be IN the format war, just voicing her preference actually WILL make the choice for many, many Americans. Let's face it, some/most of the general public is happy with someone else doing the thinking for them. I have some friends that consider me an authority on technology, but if their favorite actor/actress/sports figure/politician endorses a product, my recommendations become moot.

It has always been about two things; price and installed user base. Some like to pretend that price does no matter, but Warner would disagree:

"It will be really pivotal what Toshiba does this fourth quarter in hardware. If they sell through everything they ship, and it’s a big number at the price points that are coming out, then I think [HD DVD] will be around for a long time. If they don’t, then it could go Blu-ray’s way. But Toshiba is getting very, very aggressive on pricing, which is putting pressure on Blu-ray player manufacturers to bring prices down. As a content company we just want more hardware in the homes. So what ever drives more hardware is good to see. Right now it looks like there is price pressure on both sides because there are two formats — more pressure than there would be if there was only one format. So, for our interests, more razors means we’ll sell more razor blades down the road." Warner President Ron Sanders

If you look around you will find two types of people on these forums that say price does not matter; well-to-do HT freaks with cash to burn and 17-year-olds with PS3s they didn't pay for. That's about it. People that paid for their BD Players know price matters and that's why so many of them have been buying HD DVD Players in recent months because there is no point in denying yourself access to the over 10,000 potential HD DVD exclusive films when you can buy in at $200. That's about the price of 5 Fox BDs.

I know if there was a fully functional Profile 2.0 compliant Blu-ray player out there for less than $200 I'd buy one. That's why this 4th quarter is so critical; either people will buy off on the Blu-ray FUD and believe that HD DVD is dead or they won't. In the case of the former I doubt those people will buy a Blu-ray Player either because the price point is too high and there is still a chance that BD could fail. In the case of the later they will buy an HD DVD Player because the price is probably lower than the first DVD Player or VCR they purchased.

If Toshiba can move 400,000 stand-alones Q4 BD will be lucky to hold the NPD sales advantage they've had all this year for a single week. Then the perception that the BDA tried to paint about HD DVD all this year (it's dead) will swing against them. In otherwords an installed base of over 800,000 HD DVD Players + American Gangster + BeoWulf + Bee Movie = A LOT of Blu-bois tears.

2 questions... what is FUD, and what is J6P?

James

2 questions... what is FUD, and what is J6P?

James

Welcome to the AVS Forum!:D

2 questions... what is FUD, and what is J6P?

James

FUD= Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt...If I do not have something to sell you right now, my best chance of getting your money in the future is to create fear, uncertainty or doubt about the options you have now..so that you do not give your money to my competitor and will still be in the market when I have something for you.

j6P= Joe Six-Pack ... not sure how to describe "him" without getting derogatory. They are the "average consumer" so if you can find what makes them buy your product, you will have a huge market.

It's almost christmas. Which ever one Oprah gives away on her show is going to win the format war.(You all know that's totally true)

Almost.

If Oprah were to give 1 out on her show, there would be 100 new owners of that format, and tens of thousands LOOKING INTO that format..but not necessarily buying in.

If she were to THROW her weight behind a format: i.e. do ads, become a spokeswoman, then you would have a HUGE uptick in sales and support. I don't think that would necessarily win the war..but definately would sell thousands(tens of thousands?) of units

In my case, price(for the player) is currently the number 1 issue. I have an xbox with the add-on out in my living room, but my hdtv in the bedroom does not have any HDTV programming available.
It uses analog cable(HDTV through cable would be $16 a month) and a DVD player.

If I could swing an HD DVD player(or even Blu-Ray) for that matter for around $100, I would buy it and swap out the DVD player.

I can't justify spending $200+ to get a a high def player for a tv that typically is watched by my wife and 3 yo son...who do not care about HD..and will watch a show out in the main room if they really want to watch a particular one.

..so he'll say "F it" and buy the regular DVD.

Actually (unfortunately) you are correct. This is exactly what J6p is and will do and not buy any HD DVD/BD player at all.

$210 for HD-DVD player and 8 movies on Amazon a few months ago.

vs.

$400+ for BD.


Not a hard sell, unless you are into gaming, at which point you'd get a PS3.

toshiba needs to change the hddvd logo to hi def dvd player and all of the studios should change also from hddvd to hi def dvd:)

j6p walks into walmart and see's blu ray and then see's hi def dvd ,he's gonna walk over to hi def dvd player and buy it ,make sure in capital letter on the box it says "backward compatible MAKES YOUR STANDARD DVD'S, LOOK LIKE HI DEF AS WELL"

If j6p is hanging out on this forum, I would think he already knows something. He certainly has an interest. So he isnt j6p anymore! :)
usually when i go into a store that sells ce a/v, at some point i ask the clerk or a manager or whomever (and most of these folks 'appear' to be more or less j6ps themselves), if they go on any (or specifically avs) on-line forums to learn more about a/v gear. most do not and the few that did had never heard of avs. i found that hard to believe and a little disappointing. and these guys work in the retailing end of the industry? where does that leave the 'laypeople'?

just to let you know.
i was in bestbuy the other day and stood right next to a [retired]guy
and he had at least 10 blu-ray discs in his hand.
so much for retired people,not having a clue.

peeps from all walks of life will be getting in on hdm including like u say, retired folks, folks w disabilities, j6ps, professionals, military folks, and many others. all else supposedly being equal, the lower the prices the sooner that will happen. a more intense marketing campaign (at least for hd dvd) would be a big help also.

like i say yes cheaper hardware will sell more but cheaper software will win the war. if you have 200 br or hd dvd in your libray at lets say a average price of 25 a piece that is5k for software now lets say the average price was 20bucks that is 4k for the same titles. so a 200,300 or 400 dollar player is small in comparson to the price of software.

like i say yes cheaper hardware will sell more but cheaper software will win the war. if you have 200 br or hd dvd in your libray at lets say a average price of 25 a piece that is5k for software now lets say the average price was 20bucks that is 4k for the same titles. so a 200,300 or 400 dollar player is small in comparson to the price of software.

LONG term, it is small...but we are talking about 'barrier to entry" that is...what is causing every single HDTV owner to NOT buy one of the formats.

If players were cheap enough that they could get out of the store with at least a movie and player for $200 that would be pretty cool...We are getting there.

Variety/availability of software would be the #2 barrier to entry(I would pay more if I could get Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, Gladiator, PoTC, Cars, etc)

Price of software would be farther down the list...let me worry about the price once you have it available...

i never studied economics. but i know pretty well that prices alone are not the deciding factor.


As I said in my first post, studio support is pretty evenly split, and for every "big exclusive" on one side, there's another "big exclusive" on the other side. That's why I'm saying that for this little thought experiment, we can treat them as commodities that are now competing mainly in price, rather than quality.

("quality," for our purposes here, being defined as audio/picture quality, availability, and movie selection)

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005711.html

Just a year-and-a-half since they launched, high-definition players are breaching the $200 barrier.

If reports on the Web are correct, HD DVD is poised to break the $200 mark before the holidays.

Toshiba has told me there's no official pricing moves with regard to their MSRP; however, reports on the Web indicate Wal-Mart may be prepping to sell a $198 HD DVD player.

If so, this is a significant and aggressive move in favor of Toshiba and the HD DVD format:...

Toshiba getting there is a whole other story, though: That's a big gun going out to the masses--complete with established and experienced technical support. ...


Reaching $200 is a notable milestone, says Paul Erickson, Director of DVD and HD Market Research at DisplaySearch (a market research arm of NPD Group).

"The $200 price point is considered an important financial and psychological barrier to cross for a consumer electronics device to become affordable to mainstream audiences," Erickson says.

"This has been borne out in the past with DVD player, game console, and more recently, upscaling DVD player sales figures.

And, according to our analysis of NPD retail sales data, consumers have thus far clearly demonstrated to be much more responsive to price, rather than content or features, when purchasing next generation DVD players.

As such, getting below $200 and even $150 may actually be even more crucial for next generation formats to generate the mainstream sales numbers to succeed."

2 questions... what is FUD, and what is J6P?

James

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=21665
"Hiding HD-DVD's and Playing dirty..."

Hahahaha. Children children children.