Hi,

I have been using an 8500 card with an AMD skt 939 3800+ x2 cpu to play blu-ray no probs. I recently put in a dual format LG drive and tried playing "the good shepherd" and "the Italian job" HD, both vc-1 encoded. Both stutter very badly, and show my cpu is being pegged!!!

But vc-1 seems to be somewhat helped by the card on blu-ray, as it stopped my cpu from being pegged when I swapped out an older 7600 card.

So what gives? Do I need to get an HD2400 card to enjoy both HD and blu-ray????

I doubt it, I just watched Transofmers and everythng was perfect.

my system:

P4 3.2 ghz
1024MB ram
audigy 2 ZS
8500GT

Vista ultimate

Perhaps you should update drivers od powerDVD versions...

odd. What version of pdvd do you have? I am using 3104a

Do I need to get an HD2400 card to enjoy both HD and blu-ray????

These aren't very good, get a 2600

These aren't very good, get a 2600


Really!!?? I thought they both had the same video decoding capabilities. The only advantage I see for the 2600 is mild gaming, which will never be done on this htpc.

Plus there are very few passive 2600s, at least that don't have a heatsink on both sides of the board.

I have the same PowerDVD version, and the latest official nvidia drivers.

But then again...I had to reinstall my VISTA, because it was very slow. Now its a lot better!

I'm also using the latest nvida drivers, as of last night. Not betas btw.

bully666 what is your cpu usage while watcing vc-1?

40 to 60% with transformers.

Havent really tested any others yet....

btw during playback the vc-1 bitrate on "the good shepherd" spikes upwards to 100mbps! but is often around 30-50. That seems high.... and would explain why my cpu is struggling.

From the research it appears the 2400/2600 are better options than the 8500/8600 for vc-1 titles.

If the mbps gets so high, that is your reason. That will make any cpu struggle!

The question is why this happens.

Try the transformers, or king kong

Transformers is AVC MPEG-4.

I'm interested as well, as my two systems are x2 3800 and x2 4200 and I'm wanting that LG drive. What I've been reading is maybe a newer card 8800GT is coming which is better than anything else currently (by a large margin). Also heard a new ATI card coming with similar performance. Maybe you should look into those.

Does Vista add anything on this type of setup (versus XP MCE)?

Transformers is AVC MPEG-4.

Oh...sorry then, I totaly forgot to check this, since the movie is on HD DVD.

I will check king kong tomorrow then.

Unfortunately I don't have kingkong or transformers to try.

I also don't want a big hot loud card for my htpc, so any of the upper tier cards won't be suitable.

I'm tempted to just buy a cheaper HD2400 and give it a try.

I'll also check the bitrate of Casino Royale on BD. That is vc-1 and plays fine. Actually cpu rarely goes above 35%.

8500 GT does not do VC-1 hardware decode, hence the reason you're seeing the high CPU utilization and stutter.

the HD 2400 does not have the same issue as it does hardware decode of both H.264 and VC-1.

ok, not sure what the problem is now. The bitrate in casino royale is about 30mbps. CPU usage is around 30%. The good shepherd averages around 20mbps, but has spikes of up to 170!! but even at 13-20mbps the cpu is pegged at 100%. Must be a HD-DVD thing!?????

something is obviously being mistreported since HD DVD only has about 31mbps max bandwidth w/o overhead.

Really!!?? I thought they both had the same video decoding capabilities. The only advantage I see for the 2600 is mild gaming, which will never be done on this htpc.

Plus there are very few passive 2600s, at least that don't have a heatsink on both sides of the board.

The hardware on the 2400s seems to be prone to faults, these faults are not reported on the 2600s. I have a 2400 and it is completely useless for playing video, I wouldn't buy another.

Perhaps the problem is with the media itself, since you dont play it directly from HDD.

Try to rip it and run it from HDD.

bully666 I tried that also. No difference.

HM...try to find another movie that does not work for you, and I will see how it looks for me, the good shepherd and italian job I already watched :)

I've ordered a cheap 2400pro to compare. I'll post back later in the week to let all know the results.

Go with a 2600 card.
Both 8500 and 2400 it to0 weak for perfect playback.

Some of the hardware playback is done in the pixel pipelines and they are just too weak in those cards.

But the 2400 and 2600 have the same number of pipelines. I'm having a hard time finding any real doucmented differences. But the one table I found stated that the clock rate was the only difference.

Anyone have a link to actual harware differences?

But the 2400 and 2600 have the same number of pipelines. I'm having a hard time finding any real doucmented differences. But the one table I found stated that the clock rate was the only difference.

Anyone have a link to actual harware differences?

Nope. The 2600 has 3 times the stream processors (no more pipelines).

Model
Brand SAPPHIRE
Model 100203L
Interface
Interface PCI Express x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 2400PRO
Stream Processors 40 Stream Processor Units

Model
Brand SAPPHIRE
Model 100208L
Interface
Interface PCI Express x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon HD 2600XT
Stream Processors 120 stream processing units

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/hdvideodisk1-page2.html

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/X2400-8400/hdplayback.php

Interesting articles

kapone, yeah saw that after I posted. Actually I remember I was comparing the 2400pro to the xt version. My mistake.

I still don't understand how stream processors relates to UVD performance of the cards. Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't found definative tests any where.

Transformers on Xp X2 3800 using my Diamond 7600GT I get 45/50% cpu usage playing VC-1 like The Departed I get under 30%. That card you have is still a good card I won't budge for a while until I get some feed back on the 8800GT I'm just waiting for the HDMI version.

I still don't understand how stream processors relates to UVD performance of the cards. Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't found definative tests any where.
I may be mistaken, but I suspect the stream processors are used for setup and auxilliary items if the UVD is occupied with a movie proper. The evidence for this is that when experimenting with a 2400Pro, I noticed a >50% CPU spike when transitioning between titles via the menu: once a title actually started playing, CPU load dropped to less than 10%.

I'm not sure if IME and a movie can be handled by UVD: possibly the UVD handles the movie and IME by the stream processors, since it isn't as high a load.

I haven't seen this officially explained anywhere, but it might explain some issues playing movies with lower powered CPUs: they get bogged down with setup, but once the actual file is piped through the UVD, then the decoding is handled by the GPU and it's smooth.

IanD, makes sense to me. Prob something I can live with for now though, provided the MOVIE plays smoothly. Its a fair trade off for a low power, quiet card. Anyway I will know more tomorrow when the card arrives.

Nimo, I can't get much to work under XP with an 8500gt, due to drivers. Surprised you are haveing so much success!

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3047&p=3

Why 2400 and 8500 can't run HD content with 100% picture quality.
However the 2400 and 8500 will have smooth playback. It is very small picture enhancing parts that does not work and will probably not be noticeble anyway by 99% of the users.

well got my hd2400 pro. Downloaded 7.1 latest drivers and its even worse! There must be a problem. Its like hardware acc isn't working at all, although it is ticked in PDVD. What was jerky with the 8500gt is a slide show with the 2400pro on VC-1. Any ideas???

The hardware on the 2400s seems to be prone to faults, these faults are not reported on the 2600s. I have a 2400 and it is completely useless for playing video, I wouldn't buy another.

Agree completely.

I am looking for a 8600GT. Fed up with ATI beta drivers and registry tweaks. I really dont have time for this.

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=28828

This is interesting, as it is very much what is happening in my case. Except I am running 1920x1080 on a dell 24" screen.

The other day I was watching Alexander, which is VC1 and there was no problems. Slighlty higher cpu usage than with mpeg4 AVC, but still 100% watchable.

I am looking for a 8600GT. Fed up with ATI beta drivers and registry tweaks. I really dont have time for this.
It's why I ditched my 2400Pro for an 8600GT: now playback is smooth and the only remaining issue is aliasing. However, I would like more functions to be selectable and configurable under XP: most of the PowerDVD controls aren't adjustable in HA mode (de-interlacing always on and not changeable, saturation control has no effect) and the drivers keep losing configurability options.

At least with ATI, you could hack the registry: with Nvidia, most of it is completely obscure.

I wish I didn't have to go to a more expensive GPU to get decent HD playback and I'm still not convinced it's absolutely necessary from a technical perspective (but maybe pushed from a commercial perspective). The fact that accelerated XP drivers were delayed 6 months after a Vista release (and still aren't right), when the installed base is still mainly XP, is highly suspicious.

The only good news is that the price of Nvidia GPUs has been dropping.

So is anyone actually using Vista? I'm afraid that all the comments are useless to me unless you have vista.

Actually I'm just about fed up with the lot of it. I've have HTPCs for 10 years, and I am seriously considering buying two blu-ray players to cater for the two regions I buy from and one HD-player. I've spent hundreds on this HD HTPC and out of the 9 movies I just bought only 3 are usable with the latest drivers, PDVD and anyDVD. Even with an AMD x2 3800+ 1gig ram 8500gt or HD2400pro. Frankly its beginning to be a waste of my precious time.

Oh something else I will add. I used BD advisor with the HD2400pro in Vista and it gave me a RED dot for the video drivers!!!! WHAT???!!!!??

Also PDVD now states it needs an update. I click "YES" and it then says update installed (not likely) and still won't play any movies.

So is anyone actually using Vista? I'm afraid that all the comments are useless to me unless you have vista.

Actually I'm just about fed up with the lot of it. I've have HTPCs for 10 years, and I am seriously considering buying two blu-ray players to cater for the two regions I buy from and one HD-player. I've spent hundreds on this HD HTPC and out of the 9 movies I just bought only 3 are usable with the latest drivers, PDVD and anyDVD. Even with an AMD x2 3800+ 1gig ram 8500gt or HD2400pro. Frankly its beginning to be a waste of my precious time.

Oh something else I will add. I used BD advisor with the HD2400pro in Vista and it gave me a RED dot for the video drivers!!!! WHAT???!!!!??

Also PDVD now states it needs an update. I click "YES" and it then says update installed (not likely) and still won't play any movies.
I had a similar complaint about XP: seems most were using Vista and getting better results some while ago. ;)

If you have an HDTV to do it justice, standalone HD-DVD/Bluray players really are the less hassle way to go. I'm only sticking with HTPC, because my display is best with 72Hz and the PC path is the only way to do that.

I notice you need multi-region Bluray: that does complicate matters on the standalone front.

Unfortunately, like me, you probably tried to save some money by going for the entry-level GPUs and because none of the marketing material mentioned it might not be adequate for full HD playback. I see that was a mistake now as I couldn't get an 8500GT or 2400Pro to work right in XP.

I now use a passive Gigabyte 8600GT with PDVD 7.3.2911 in HA mode and the help of AnyDVD HD with a C2D 2.8GHz CPU under XP. With a PDVD COLORSPACE_OPTION=1 registry change, "original" colour profile in PDVD and a boost to saturation in the Nvidia Control Panel, I no longer have a noticeable aliasing issue, levels aren't expanded, I get suitably colourful PQ, playback is the smoothest I have seen it, interlaced material seems to be adequately de-interlaced, I can use IME, plus I can play Transformers.

It isn't without a few nagging issues (like I think maybe PDVD is decoding everything to 30fps still) but it is the best I have seen it so far and I wish someone had told me this was an adequate setup from the start.

I'm sorry this may not be applicable to Vista.

My suspicion is that Vista hogs more resources, so is actually not so good for playing HD on lower-powered systems. You might be better off with an 8600, but even that may not be a completely adequate solution.

I wish I could help you better.

My suspicion is that Vista hogs more resources, so is actually not so good for playing HD on lower-powered systems. You might be better off with an 8600, but even that may not be a completely adequate solution.

I wish I could help you better.

Maybe..maybe not. And this is all with an 8500GT, not even an 8600.

This is with a Gigabyte s2h 690g motherboard , X2 5000+, 2GB corsair XMS2 RAM and an Antec Veris v2 case (not that the case matters in terms of video performance..:))

- Aero enabled for Vista, including transparent glass.
- Sidebar disabled and closed.
- NO other services have been shut off/disabled.

- Live 720p/1080i HD takes about 18-20% CPU now
- SD DVD playback takes about 8% CPU now. (The hardware MPEG2 decoding does do it's thing on the 8 series. Which is to be expected).
- HD DVDs from the network using PowerDVD latest build (3911) run at ~30% CPU. Very nice, and silk smooth.
- Still have to test direct from disk HD DVD playback from the Xbox drive.

The system is uber stable and responsive, even with all the Vista "eye candy" turned on. No lag whatsoever.

Some screenshots from this system.

This is live SD TV.

http://bimmerboard.com/members/kapone/original/livetvsd.PNG

This is live TV HD.

http://bimmerboard.com/members/kapone/original/livetvhd.PNG

Casino Royale SD DVD

http://bimmerboard.com/members/kapone/original/casinoroyalsd.PNG

Batman HD DVD (The video window is black, as PowerDVD uses overlay and snapping off a screenshot, it's black, but note the CPU usage.)

http://bimmerboard.com/members/kapone/original/batmanhd.png

This is BOTH, PowerDVD playing Batman HD DVD and Media Center playing live HD TV at the SAME time.. :D:D Note the CPU usage.

http://bimmerboard.com/members/kapone/original/vmspdvd.PNG

Maybe..maybe not. And this is all with an 8500GT, not even an 8600.
Interesting results, although you don't exactly have a low powered system.

I wonder why you are getting such good results in Vista with an 8500GT and X2 5000+, whereas wilsonj isn't with an X2 3800+. Could it be the extra CPU power makes all the difference and it is not a linearly scalable thing?

I assume you are using HA, kapone?

I have a dual boot system with XP MCE, so I thought I would try that. Funny enough I had much better results with the 2400pro. I can now play every movie, apart from spiderman1,2 and 3. Inc Fantastic 4 ROTSS. Although I have to turn off anydvd for that to work. Picture quality looks pretty good to me too. Although some of the movies looked a little grainy on the PC screen, they looked fine on the the projector.

CPU usage has dropped to 8-50% with most movies. No stuttering at all! Although there is some corruption occasionally in the picture, but at least they play. I am sure this will be taken care of with future driver and Pdvd releases.

When I get time I might try and reinstall vista and start again. See if I have better luck.

I assume you are using HA, kapone?

yes

Still, that is great to see that it is working with that much CPU usage.

I was looking into upping my CPU from a 3800+ to a 5600+ to do software decoding. I don't know if I want to mess with HA, from my research it sounds like my 8400GS might not really be able to offload that much anyway, and my low-profile HTPC is really limited in terms of what vid cards can fit in the PCIe slot.

Do you have Vista set up to use the PDVD decoder for HDTV or is it using the stock MS mpeg2 decoder? What decoder are you using for the HD-DVD/blu-ray stuff?

Do you have Vista set up to use the PDVD decoder for HDTV or is it using the stock MS mpeg2 decoder? What decoder are you using for the HD-DVD/blu-ray stuff?

Stock MS MPEG 2 decoder for everything in Media Center. PowerDVD uses it's default decoder at almost default settings. (Minor changes to the default settings).

Looks like I am sticking with xp for now, until I get time to reinstall Vista anyway.

I have now also ordered a 2600xt. Its got a fan, but I am hoping its not too loud. Plus I want to see the difference between this card and the 2400pro, which I thought had a lot of noise in the picture. Especially on blue sky scenes. It looks grainy. And this was on both displays I tried.

I'll post my findings when I get the card.

Cheers
Jamie

OK spent some time with the 2600xt. Picture quality looks much the same to me. No real discernable difference on a 720p pj. The biggest problem is the fan noise. Its horrible, and apparently you can't slow it down. Odd thing is the core temp doesn't get above 65degrees, so no sure why it has to ramp right up all the time. Deal breaker right there....

I did a fresh install of vista home premium, installed the latest ATI drivers, PDVD 3319f and AnDVD-HD 6.1.9.6 PRESTO! everything works great!

For the first time I was able to play spiderman3 right off the disc. Same with Fantastic Four ROTSS. Haven't come accross a movie in either BD or HD-DVD that I can't play. CPU stays around 30-50% for most movies.

My setup
Vista Home Premium
AnyDVD-HD 6.1.9.6
Power DVD Ultra 7.3319f
LG dual format player
Saphire passive 2400pro
ATI drivers (latest, what ever they are)
AMD 64 x2 3800+ skt 939
1 gig DDR ram

The only problem I have at the moment is when I select downmix SPDIF audio for Spiderman3 there is a slight ringing affect. It can't be heard all the time, but it is annoying. Not too fussed though, as most other movies have a compatible audio stream.

Cheers
Jamie

FWIW, I will no longer buy ANY video card that doesn't use a 2 slot cooling design that exhausts the heated air directly outside the case.

I have has a number of 2 slot cards from both NVidia and ATI, and every one of them have been whisper quiet once the system boots and the automatic fan speed control kicks in.

In comparison, I have never found a video card that uses a single slot design and a fan that doesn't sound like an airplane taking off when it is called on to do heavy graphics work.

Vern

Makes sense Vern, but why would this one sound like a jet, even when its not working and not hot!?? 62 degrees is just off idle, and the GPU usage was around 5%.

Manufacturers should really start making more practical cards, not just take the reference design and slap a fan on it, stick it in a box and thats that! Sure it works fine, but in the real world it is far practical, especially for a low end card. Most hardcore gamers are going to have something way more powerful than this. So this card is going to be targeted at HTPC and low end users. Most of which want quiet PCs. Anyway I'm going way OT.