Official AE2000 thread.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/share/head.jpg
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/main_parts/01.jpg
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/main_parts/02.jpg
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/main_parts/03.jpg
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/main_parts/04.jpg

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/img/positions/positions1.gif

SPECIFICATIONS
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/products/ae2000/specifications.html


Here's links to the 2 older threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920561

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=910164


REVIEWS (preliminary pre-release)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cine4home.de/news/PanaAE2000/AE2000Preview.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcine4home.de%2BPanasonic%2BAE2000%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DG%26pwst%3D1 (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cine4home.de/news/PanaAE2000/AE2000Preview.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcine4home.de%2BPanasonic%2BAE2000%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DG%26pwst%3D1)



Panasonic's AE2000 started shipping today Oct 30th !
Let's hear about it from owners who received them !

Let's make this the one: PM me or better use 'report post' button if you see a problem

Thanks :)

We're all good...this is the OFFICIAL official thread!

haha.

For reference, here is the manual: http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/projector/manual/download/PT-AE2000U_En.pdf

Sounds good to me.Let the review's start rockin'

Except its still in the 3k and up forum!!

I hate seeing "Official" in any thread titles... it sounds so stupid! :rolleyes:

Anyway, there's a lot of good info in the other threads, I hate to see it all disappear with the lock. Why weren't the other threads merged??? :(

Yes, please merge the threads.

Except its still in the 3k and up forum!!

Where it should be.

3500USD is still > 3000USD, at least in Canada.

Except its still in the 3k and up forum!!

I thought the suggested retail price is above $3K...

Right the forums are divided by MSRP, not by street pricing.

Yes, please merge the threads.

Please don't. The other threads were getting out of hand. With members soon receiving their units we should be getting out of the realm of speculation.

For some reason, Fedex says "Priority Overnight" :D:D. Ka-Pow!

I'll have to enjoy every single minute with Hs51 tonight..... So you know i'm not good at breaking up but she is getting too old and ugly :D

Congrats future owners! Looking forward to hearing your 2 cents!
We are moving back to NYC and I thought that I would have to abandon FP's due to the NYC apt. settup. (Can't ceiling mount and I have a Mits DLP PJ now with no lens shift and we have a baby who's soon to be toddling and coffee table mounting is no longer going to work) I was looking at the Mits hc6000 due to the lens shift for behind the seating area shelf mounting but $3999 is insane. This PJ looks like it JUST might do the trick! Looking forward, y'all!

:)

Does anybody know what scaler the projector uses? I'm looking to add a new receiver to my HT system that does scaling but wasn't sure what to compare against since I should be an owner of the AE2000 shortly.

I was calculating the image brightness on the Sanyo Z2000 vs. AE2000U...using the PC Projection Calculator Pro. I used 12'6" throw and a 110" 16X9 screen. I also used 1.1 gain. I found the Panasonic had 15fL and the Sanyo had 24fL. To a layperson it would seem like the Sanyo is brighter, however, the Sanyo claims 1200 ANSI Lumens vs. 1500 for the AE2000U.

What is up? I wanted the AE2000U, but will reconsider if these facts are true (and mean something regarding image quality). PC did not mention brightness when comparing the 2.

I sent a comment to PC also.

I was calculating the image brightness on the Sanyo Z2000 vs. AE2000U...using the PC Projection Calculator Pro. I used 12'6" throw and a 110" 16X9 screen. I also used 1.1 gain. I found the Panasonic had 15fL and the Sanyo had 24fL. To a layperson it would seem like the Sanyo is brighter, however, the Sanyo claims 1200 ANSI Lumens vs. 1500 for the AE2000U.

What is up? I wanted the AE2000U, but will reconsider if these facts are true (and mean something regarding image quality). PC did not mention brightness when comparing the 2.

I sent a comment to PC also.

Wow....great question!

I just saw the same thing.

Anyone have an idea?

I was calculating the image brightness on the Sanyo Z2000 vs. AE2000U...using the PC Projection Calculator Pro. I used 12'6" throw and a 110" 16X9 screen. I also used 1.1 gain. I found the Panasonic had 15fL and the Sanyo had 24fL. To a layperson it would seem like the Sanyo is brighter, however, the Sanyo claims 1200 ANSI Lumens vs. 1500 for the AE2000U.

What is up? I wanted the AE2000U, but will reconsider if these facts are true (and mean something regarding image quality). PC did not mention brightness when comparing the 2.

I sent a comment to PC also.

The brightness numbers on the PC calc don't amount to a hill of beans. Factory rated brightness and calibrated brightness are two totally difference things. I can calculate what you'll get on your screen, but I'd have to know the actual calibrated brightness because nobody in their right mind will use the brightest mode under normal viewing (dynamic / high bulb).

If you assume either PJ is putting out 600 calibrated lumen, you'll see about 18ftL with a new bulb, and about half that at 50% of the bulb.

The brightness numbers on the PC calc don't amount to a hill of beans. Factory rated brightness and calibrated brightness are two totally difference things. I can calculate what you'll get on your screen, but I'd have to know the actual calibrated brightness because nobody in their right mind will use the brightest mode under normal viewing (dynamic / high bulb).

If you assume either PJ is putting out 600 calibrated lumen, you'll see about 18ftL with a new bulb, and about half that at 50% of the bulb.

In any case, i think the discrepancy on the calculator is interesting as one could assume that they are using max brightness, and the panasonic is spec'ed to be brighter.

In any case, i think the discrepancy on the calculator is interesting as one could assume that they are using max brightness, and the panasonic is spec'ed to be brighter.

My point is the brightness info from that calc is basically useless either way. ;)

The brightness numbers on the PC calc don't amount to a hill of beans. Factory rated brightness and calibrated brightness are two totally difference things. I can calculate what you'll get on your screen, but I'd have to know the actual calibrated brightness because nobody in their right mind will use the brightest mode under normal viewing (dynamic / high bulb).

If you assume either PJ is putting out 600 calibrated lumen, you'll see about 18ftL with a new bulb, and about half that at 50% of the bulb.

I would hope they would either use the calibrated lumens measured when they did their review -or- they would use the manufacturer's number (or a % of that #) for all of the projectors in the calculator. At least then we could have something with which we could move forward. It is tough to make a decision in the dark.

My AE2000 just shipped today! D-Day is Thursday Nov. 1st!! Now let's see what all the hype is all about!:D:D

BTW guys, my present screen is a 110" Da-Lite Cinemavision....is this a good match for the AE2000?

let us know!

My AE2000 just shipped today! D-Day is Thursday Nov. 1st!! Now let's see what all the hype is all about!:D:D

Do you have a current FP that it's replacing?

does anyone have a mount that they recommend with this projector?

thanks
Itai

Yes, the AE2000 will be replacing my current Sony VW-50 which I am in the process of selling........I have high hopes and got my fingers crossed that I won't be disappointed............but for $2,600, it's not too big of a gamble for me.......heck in 1-2 years, we'll all be salivating at the AE3000.

does anyone have a mount that they recommend with this projector?

thanks
Itai

I bought the Chief RPA universal mount from Projector People.....$150 and it's good for all future projectors, too.

My TX100 is on its last legs, tons of dust blobs and over 2200 hours on the bulb it's just about dead. It's this one or the Z2000. If the Panny is really 20% to 25% brighter I will spend the extra $$$ for my light chalenged room.

I would hope they would either use the calibrated lumens measured when they did their review -or- they would use the manufacturer's number (or a % of that #) for all of the projectors in the calculator. At least then we could have something with which we could move forward. It is tough to make a decision in the dark.

Stated spec lumens on paper don't mean much.
Some companies are more...lets say 'over enthusiastic' when they publish these numbers.

In reality, the Sanyo Z2000 and Panasonic AE2000 are both using 165W bulbs with the exact same D7 LCD panels. They're going to be very similar in light output in their same relative modes.

Ordered from ProjPeople.. going from an ae700 so I'm very excited!! I have a 120" HP in a batcave with light control. I'll post my opinion tomorrow hopefully.

Stated spec lumens on paper don't mean much.
Some companies are more...lets say 'over enthusiastic' when they publish these numbers.

In reality, the Sanyo Z2000 and Panasonic AE2000 are both using 165W bulbs with the exact same D7 LCD panels. They're going to be very similar in light output in their same relative modes.

Remember the ax100 specs state 2000 lumens and it had them.Yes you can't use all that for movie modes.But it does come in handy for sports and those with some light issues.Panny states 1500 for the ae2000,That is quite alot for a 1080p.Hopefully like the ax100 it will have it.Will find out very soon.:)

Sound like Sanyo is going for quiet operation as one of the selling point. Light output could have cut down in design to reduce heat built up as oppose to Panny or Epson going all out with similar 165w lamp but higher air flow (? Epson is 170w). 19db vs 22db (epson unknown)

will someone please just go ahead and post some screen shots and comments!!!

It not out yet, wait 2 days and you get it I guarantee

ordered mine... its supposed to ship tommorow!

Itai

I would hope they would either use the calibrated lumens measured when they did their review -or- they would use the manufacturer's number (or a % of that #) for all of the projectors in the calculator. At least then we could have something with which we could move forward. It is tough to make a decision in the dark.

Use the calibrated numbers from their review... PC??? :confused: Bwahahahahhhhaaa!!!! :D


As stated earlier, manufactures specs mean little and even if they were accurate, you would never really use the settings they would use to reach the max numbers.

If you can given me some numbers, I'd be happy to calculate them for you. :)

Sound like Sanyo is going for quiet operation as one of the selling point. Light output could have cut down in design to reduce heat built up as oppose to Panny or Epson going all out with similar 165w lamp but higher air flow (? Epson is 170w). 19db vs 22db (epson unknown)

Again, it's tough to compare manufactures specs because they typically aren't measured the same way. Both are very quiet though. :)


My guess is the Epson will be the overall star of the three, but since it doesn't internally support CIH, I'm probably going to pass on it.

Did a little math. I know this isn't scientific but interesting.

The AX100 and 200 puts out 9.0909 ANSI per watt. It has a 220w bulb 2000/220.

The AE2000U has a 165w bulb so 165x9.0909=1499.9985

Seems a little close to be a coincidence :rolleyes:

When PC reviewed the AX200 they got 1845 ANSI.

I'm following this thread for sure (even though I'm getting another projector)...People are getting their projectors rather quickly (in the next day or two) so there will be a TON of info from first hand accounts (which everyone likes).

There's many ways to overstate lumens on specs and technically be telling the truth.

Here's an example.
Sanyo specs their Z2000 at 1200 lumens on paper (in Dynamic mode, lamp on high, lens at shortest throw wide angle)

I approach Sanyo and ask them to private brand the same Z2000 projector under 'JoeBlack' brand as model JB-XV2000 using the exact same hardware and 165W bulb. For the Dynamic preset I pump up green and some blue, raise the gamma until I hit 1500 lumens and have Sanyo send it into production like that.

When I bring it to market, I can actualy release a spec sheet that states 1500 lumens and make my projector appear to be brighter than the Sanyo. When a reviewer like PC or PR sets my XV2000 to Dynamic they'll measure and confirm 1500 lumens.

Sanyo Z2000 165W bulb, D7 lcd, 1200 lumens
JoeBlack XV2000 165W bulb,D7 lcd, 1500 lumens

If you looked at the above specs you should be thinking the JB-XV2000 is much brighter, but in fact your actually buying the exact same projector as the Sanyo.

All I'm saying is both the AE2000 and Z2000 share the same 165W bulb and D7 panels, their relative modes when equally calibrated and will be more the same than different.

There's many ways to overstate lumens on specs and technically be telling the truth.

Here's an example.
Sanyo specs their Z2000 at 1200 lumens on paper (in Dynamic mode, lamp on high, lens at shortest throw wide angle)

I approach Sanyo and ask them to private brand the same Z2000 projector under 'JoeBlack' brand as model JB-XV2000 using the exact same hardware and 165W bulb. For the Dynamic preset I pump up green and some blue, raise the gamma until I hit 1500 lumens and have Sanyo send it into production like that.

When I bring it to market, I can actualy release a spec sheet that states 1500 lumens and make my projector appear to be brighter than the Sanyo. When a reviewer like PC or PR sets my XV2000 to Dynamic they'll measure and confirm 1500 lumens.

Sanyo Z2000 165W bulb, D7 lcd, 1200 lumens
JoeBlack XV2000 165W bulb,D7 lcd, 1500 lumens

If you looked at the above specs you should be thinking the JB-XV2000 is much brighter, but in fact your actually buying the exact same projector as the Sanyo.

All I'm saying is both the AE2000 and Z2000 share the same 165W bulb and D7 panels, their relative modes when equally calibrated and will be more the same than different.

Hi Joe,

That is probably pretty close to the truth, but it is assume all other components are equal. In this case, they are different.

Assume one has light leaks and one is perfect, shooting all light through the lens. that will be brighter.

Also, one could have better glass, which could affect brightness.

Finally, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the same wattage lamp only means that the CAN put out the same amount of light...not that they do. Perhaps the panasonic puts more power to the lamp where the sanyo doesn't. One example of what i'm thinking about is the Eco mode that these projectors have that restrict the amount of power and hence the brightness, from the bulb.

Even still, those differences would be very small, which is why your example is very credible.

the difference, in my opinon, is the light output when used in a real enviornment.

If the panasonic's optical iris really works well, I could have a much brighter picture than with the sanyo, for instance, if the sanyo doesn't have that iris (which i've been confused about. I think, from the cine4home preveiws that the panasonic has an optical iris that operates on a per frame basis, where the sanyo iris is only at the bulb and not quite as functional).

Unless I'm missing something, there could be, even when calibrated, be a very real difference in brightness, even without taking the software and processing into account.

My AE2000 is on the way as well, and the AX200 is on its way back to PP...

Until the AE2000 arrives, I am enjoying a few more days with my first projector, an IF 4805 (1400 hrs). I never have any problems with it, but was starting to feel that it was looking a little "tired." After reading a lot of enthusiastic reports on the AX200, I decided to take the plunge.

I got the AX200 up and running, but honestly wasn't as impressed as I expected to be. Resolution and brightness increased, but the black levels...well, I'll just call them grey levels...just didn't do it for me. And in spite of the increase from 480p to 720p, in some ways it really didn't look sharper, while artifacts became more intrusive. I began to feel that perhaps I had made a big mistake, but then I started thinking about the possibility of exchanging for an upgrade, then the hype for the AE2000 began to appear. And you already know what happened next.

Well, as long as I still had the 4805 down from its mount, I decided to have a look at the color wheel, which I had always intended to clean. Sure enough, discoloration was evident, so I did some careful work with some Q-tips and water. It was much easier than I feared, and the wheel looked great when I was finished.

I put up the 4805 again, and remembered right away why I had enjoyed it so much in the first place. Sure, the resolution is only what it is, but it does so many things right.

Please, somebody...tell me that the AE2000 is going to blow away my old 4805!

Gary Dahl

From the chart if the first post it appears that the projector doesn't have enough offset to allow the placement to be above the top of the screen. Not sure where that came from because in the manual it clearly states the projector can be moved 100% above the top of the screen. Perhaps that image should be removed or replaced to eliminate confusion.

Also, what are the problems using some much lens shift? Loss of brightness? Picture distortion? Uneven screen brightness? Change to contrast? Is it better to try and keep this shift to a minimum or is there relatively no problems as compared to the destruction of keystone adjustment?

From the chart if the first post it appears that the projector doesn't have enough offset to allow the placement to be above the top of the screen. Not sure where that came from because in the manual it clearly states the projector can be moved 100% above the top of the screen. Perhaps that image should be removed or replaced to eliminate confusion.

Also, what are the problems using some much lens shift? Loss of brightness? Picture distortion? Uneven screen brightness? Change to contrast? Is it better to try and keep this shift to a minimum or is there relatively no problems as compared to the destruction of keystone adjustment?

On my ax100 I used quite a bit of lens shift.I have it all the way down allmost,I notice no change in the pic from the center position.

When I first got my AE1000 I had to use lots of horizontal lens shift and a bit of vertical while I used it in a temporary setup. Once I'd put it in the final position ( on a shelf in a bookcase) it is dead centre to the screen and I just use a touch of vertical shift to line the bottom black bar with my screen border. I can honestly say that I can't tell any difference from the shift point of view. I made much more difference to the picture by darkening the room properly and adding some dark throws and rugs to minimise light reflection back to the screen. So shift away, if you need to, I can't see the AE2000 being any different on that score.

I must stop reading these AE2000 threads, I'll end up buying one.......

you're all talking too much, we want screenshots! :D ;)

Gaming...

One thing I haven't heard much of is how this is going to perform for gaming. Will there be lag issues?? Will it handle some ambient light at that lumens? Forgive, but I am a projector newbie, looking to jump on this purchase...

Gaming...

One thing I haven't heard much of is how this is going to perform for gaming. Will there be lag issues?? Will it handle some ambient light at that lumens? Forgive, but I am a projector newbie, looking to jump on this purchase...

If you search for posts on the AE1000, you will find that most people said there was no issue with lag or anything... and its assumed that the AE2000 would only be better. But as far as real evidence there is no issue with gaming or LAG, I've not been able to find any.

I will game on this, but its not my primary reason for the purchase in any case. Movies are primary!

I am also another projector n00b, the AE2000 will be my first, it should be her Friday.

What about everyone else's that shipped yesterday and had them overnighted?!?! whose the first to receive?!

If you search for posts on the AE1000, you will find that most people said there was no issue with lag or anything... and its assumed that the AE2000 would only be better. But as far as real evidence there is no issue with gaming or LAG, I've not been able to find any.

I will game on this, but its not my primary reason for the purchase in any case. Movies are primary!

I am also another projector n00b, the AE2000 will be my first, it should be her Friday.

What about everyone else's that shipped yesterday and had them overnighted?!?! whose the first to receive?!

I'm waiting on the fedex truck as i type, should be here soon.

What about everyone else's that shipped yesterday and had them overnighted?!?! whose the first to receive?!

There are a few people here who should be receiving their units either today or tomorrow...

What about everyone else's that shipped yesterday and had them overnighted?!?! whose the first to receive?!

Well, it's too early for lunch hour but it's gonna be a long one :D

http://danator.net/images/misc/panny.jpg

Pictures please :)

Mine won't be here until Friday afternoon. :mad:

I was too cheap to pay for express shipping. :o

Zero,

I think you must be coming down with something. You don't look like you feel too well. :D

Yeah, but if you google MSRP AE2000 some sites show $2999, and some show $3000. Even at $3000 seems like it should move to the other forum. Many people will be comparing this to the Sanyo Z2000, so having these projectors in different forums seems to make no sense to me.

jcg

Right the forums are divided by MSRP, not by street pricing.

Use the calibrated numbers from their review... PC??? :confused: Bwahahahahhhhaaa!!!! :D


As stated earlier, manufactures specs mean little and even if they were accurate, you would never really use the settings they would use to reach the max numbers.

If you can given me some numbers, I'd be happy to calculate them for you. :)

Here are my numbers: 12'6" throw onto a 110" 16X9 screen (Stewart SST w/1.1gain). Ceiling mount centered horizonal - lens center will be about 6" to 10" above the top of the screen. Do you need anything more?
Thanks!

Mine won't be here until Friday afternoon. :mad:

I was too cheap to pay for express shipping. :o

It was an honest mistake from the shipping department i guess. I didn't pay a dime for overnight. :p:p

Zero,

I think you must be coming down with something. You don't look like you feel too well. :D

:p

I'm but in healing, i have a deep cut and punctured my hand artery last week. I am glad the panny is not heavy or i won't be able to carry it with one hand to 3 story complex.

ask someone to help you, man

Zero, tell your employer that you need to go home because you have a bad case of upgraditis.

Just got the ae2000, will post something in a short while. Still unpacking!

Zeroendless,

Can't wait to hear your reports on this projector. I may pull the trigger on this and take that step once the reviews start coming in :)

dragonleepenn,

Go, go go! I am at work on the edge of my seat here when I should be working!!!

Same thing as repdetect2 : at work (in paris, France ;)), listening the soundtrack "Once upon a time in America" and waiting for the first reports. :)
I saw during lunch time a demo of the Panny PTAE 1000 and didn't like the picture (not enough sharpness...very blurry).
I saw a Mitsu HC 6000 in a side-by-side comparison and there was no match about the sharpness.
Hope the PTAE 2000 will be better. :)

Vincent

Sweet, first hand accounts on this projector...Possible unboxing pics?

Come on Dragon, you don't need lunch. Give up some pictures :)

I don't trust these posted pics of screen shots to give me a true representation of what the PJ can do........how can it?...........there's so many variables that can affect the image of the picture that's posted.....the camera itself--lens quality, ISO setting, exposure setting, focus setting, screen material, ambient lighting of the media room, settings on the projector, is it properly calibrated, the condition and setting on your computer monitor, etc., etc..........it's like someone posting a MP3 file on the web to judge whether how good or bad a speaker sounds....ridiculous.

I simply meant pictures of the unboxing and of the unit itself. Just for fun.

BTW, screenshots are just for fun too.

BTW, screenshots are just for fun too.


yeah they are......but too many here use that as a "blibical" fact to argue how one projector is superior to another.:rolleyes:

dragonleepenn just left my house. He stopped by for a quick viewing. Thanks:)

This was by no means enough time to put it through its paces but I just wanted to get a quick
look at how this looks. Im sure hes home spending the afternoon installing this on his ceiling and will report later tonight or tomorrow.

I only had HD cable via HDMI as source. I was truly impressed. We threw an image 8 feet wide. There was so much in the menu we did not bother changing anything so what we saw was right out of the box.
It kills my AE700. I walked right up to the screen and no visible pixel structure at all, none. The SS did not in any way soften the image. It was very sharp. Black level and on/off looked better then my VW100 to my eye. I could not believe I was looking at LCD. Man these things have come a long way. Sorry I do not have more.
Im sure there will be more detailed reports from others coming soon but this projector is a winner. Enjoy your protectors:)

Now that's what I like to hear :)

Thanks for posting that up, even though you only had a short time with it, it still had a very good impression on you...

Alan I have the 700u now and the 2000 is in my sites for new PJ. Is it a night and day difference in the black levels from the 700 to the 2000? How about image sharpness from the 700 to the 2000. Thanks.

FFS i can't wait until it's out here in Europe!! :eek:

dragonleepenn just left my house. He stopped by for a quick viewing. Thanks:)

This was by no means enough time to put it through its paces but I just wanted to get a quick
look at how this looks. Im sure hes home spending the afternoon installing this on his ceiling and will report later tonight or tomorrow.

I only had HD cable via HDMI as source. I was truly impressed. We threw an image 8 feet wide. There was so much in the menu we did not bother changing anything so what we saw was right out of the box.
It kills my AE700. I walked right up to the screen and no visible pixel structure at all, none. The SS did not in any way soften the image. It was very sharp. Black level and on/off looked better then my VW100 to my eye. I could not believe I was looking at LCD. Man these things have come a long way. Sorry I do not have more.
Im sure there will be more detailed reports from others coming soon but this projector is a winner. Enjoy your protectors:)
I also asked in the other thread but...

Have you tested the AE1000U, and if so, did you see an improvement compared to that one?

Alan I have the 700u now and the 2000 is in my sites for new PJ. Is it a night and day difference in the black levels from the 700 to the 2000? How about image sharpness from the 700 to the 2000. Thanks.

Doris Day movies illuminated by my light table are sharper than the 700. :p

ted

Back.

Quick 30 minutes preview.

Convergence alignment. At least half-1 pixel all over the place. :( Using Sony hd pattern and DVE

Colour uniformity. No problem.

Fan noise, not whisper quiet but reasonable in both normal and eno mode. Mine is shelf mounted and about 3' above seating area. Doesn't bother me.

A quick bringhtness and contrast setting, Iris on, set color 1 and cinema 1. Color is dead on by the way, 1080/240p from ps3. Black is impressive with no motion artifact as reported from early review from users here. I play a few dark scenes from Hellboy and happy to say the black level is ...black..:) , this is brilliant for LCD. Plenty of light at eco mode, and picture is punchy with beautiful color.

Sharpness, I know we all hate this stupid smooth screen. I didn't have enough time for further review but i remember few face detail close up scene. You can have both with panny's latest smart sharpening technology....Pixel free and detail.

By the way, I like how panny double inserts the package.

Thanks for the report Zero. Did you get a chance to take a couple of "fun" pics?

This just in:

I emailed PC the following:
"Quick question...will the Panny be bright enough for the configurations I mentioned below? I am getting a Stewart SST 110"."

The response I got was:
"Assuming you have a dark viewing environment, Cinema 1 mode on the Panny will be just right at 110", as long as you don't use the long end of the zoom lens. The shorter the throw distance, the better. It also has a very bright mode, called Normal, which puts out over 900 lumens without costing too much in color balance."

Thanks again to Evan for taking the time to respond to my question. I feel better about getting the PT-AE2000U with the SST 110 and a 12' throw. I wanted a grey screen for the blacks -and- so I can have dim lights on when watching games with friends.

Thanks for the report Zero. Did you get a chance to take a couple of "fun" pics?

It's shame to say that i'm a photographer, roomful of digital camera, lens and photography equipment cost 8 times more than the panny but i didn't take a single shot. :o:o

Well my AE2000 will be here friday fedx 2nd day air.Visual Apex just said they only had a few left.Hurry if you want one.YEHA

I am wondering how this unit will do going through a CIH prism for 237:1. Also wondering about the performance of the built-in vertical stretch, and on the brightness for a large 237:1 screen. Is 130" wide too big? Hopefully we can get more in-use experiences soon. :)

Doris Day movies illuminated by my light table are sharper than the 700. :p

ted

Mine is really not that bad, Blu-Ray set at 1080i looks pretty dang good even thought this is a 720P PJ.

Any impressions now that you've played with it for a while??

hey guys, lets see some screen shots!!

For those of you with a critical eye that have or will soon see one of these bad boys....

How are the blacks - really?

Anywhere near CRT black?

Looks pretty tempting!

How are the blacks - really?

Anywhere near CRT black?

I think you are expecting too much. It will definitely stay behind the best DLPs and the RS1.

Preliminary impressions from those that received their's sound very good so far. I also appreciate and trust Alan's opinion.

It should be a good fit for my new scope setup.

Interested in hearing about how well they've improved these areas;

- Sharpness and image detail with smoothscreen. I like my 1080 clear and sharp The previous AE1000 was well ...not good.
- Brightness.
- Black levels, contrast and shadow detail.
- Dynamic iris performance.

The rest I can more or less live with until next year's models get released.
I seem to have a habit of upgrading often.

Let's hear more from those that received them.

Brightness and Light

Hey all. I am close to ordering and I am curious if it would be bright enough for ambient light. Like playing wii with friends??

Anywhere near CRT black?

If it is just north or south of the VW50 or VW100 in terms of black level, it will have very good black levels but CRT levels are still not there. Don't get me wrong, compared to my old AE700, black levels on the LCOS based projectors are great and this should be a great advancement for LCD. However, when I see the ultra black of my 34" Sony CRT, it becomes apparent that there will likely be plenty of upgrades still to come.

Like playing wii with friends??



Wouldn't you want less light if your going to play with your friends wii? :D :D

I agree. Lots of negatives with CRT. Most will not notice the difference between the current crop of 1080Ps and CRT. The rest of us who struggle to gain performance inch by inch will always want more. It's part of the game.

Don't you find it hard to play wii with a projector anyways? Seems like you would always be standing in the light creating shadows on the screen.

The Wii should work fine with a projector, though you may have to stand slightly off center. Me and my kids don't stand directly in front of our TV in the family room when we play the Wii so it should not be any different with a projector. Especially if it's ceiling mounted.

Well, I have everything going into an upcomverting amp and then out the source over hdmi..

I suppose if I don't like the unit it can go back :(

Don't you find it hard to play wii with a projector anyways? Seems like you would always be standing in the light creating shadows on the screen.

Yeah, and with a short throw, unless you are pretty tall, there is no problem. I have a wii and a Marantz VP4001, and really do not have any problems getting in the way. That's with the pj mounted at 12 feet back and about 8' off the floor.

Thanks so much for all the Wii feedback :)

Then you'll be wii-less!

I couldn't get to the computer today because I was to busy. All day I've been looking forward to hearing a lot of new user feedback, but after reading 4 pages I see next to nothing!?!?!

I can say I'm bothered by the one comment regarding 1/2 to 1 pixel MC across the entire screen. I hope this doesn't turn out to be the norm. :(

Hopefully tomorrow brings some more in depth conversation from owners. :o

What about mixed scenes? DC restoration ( fluctuating black levels )? MTF? Green phosphor lag? CRT issues go on and on. I'm personally glad the day has come that black level is near CRT, without all the other CRT negatives. There's much more to the whole picture than the "how black can you go" limbo stick game. My goal is: "how close to 35mm film cinema can you get." (Within the 1080p resolution of course)

Yes there are issues with all the technologies. I just happen to like black to actually be black. If it is really getting close I'll likely jump in. If I can still put on a puppet show when the screen is 'Black' I'll likely wait a few more years. I have yet to see a bulb projector that I would consider 'acceptable' when it comes to black levels. Hopefully one the new 1080p projectors will change that.

The biggest negative for CRT to me is always having to worry about burning the tubes. I can deal with just about all the other issues. I have a G70 projector that has one hell of a good bright picture and really does do black as black.

checked with PS3 1080/24p, sony 7669 pattern.

I took a few shots from different area, they are more or less like that
http://www.danator.net/images/misc/conv1.jpg
http://www.danator.net/images/misc/conv2.jpg

My goal is: "how close to 35mm film cinema can you get." (Within the 1080p resolution of course)
Depends on what you are measuring. 35mm is around 16 megapixels so resolution-wise there is some work to be done. Black levels on most home theater projectors already beat the socks off any 35mm theater setup. It's one of the reasons digital cinema is making headway. But it's not all about black levels... dynamic range is much more important. I'll post my impressions after I receive my AE2000 this weekend!

checked with PS3 1080/24p, sony 7669 pattern.

I took a few shots from different area, they are more or less like that

Is this one-pixel wide lines?

35mm is around 16 megapixels so resolution-
Where is that number from? I think it's more like 6 megapixels.

It's Mavs opening game, i just passed the 4 hours trial period... so i guess it's a keeper? :)

If you can't live with pixel misalignment, wait for more reports.

Other than that... enjoys the screenshot as requested,
ps3, 1080/24p.
http://www.danator.net/images/misc/sh1.jpg
tivo s3, scene from Hero. 720p
http://www.danator.net/images/misc/sh3.jpg
moto 6416, 1080i
http://www.danator.net/images/misc/sh2.jpg

2000u does a wonderful job upscaling and deinterace the beat-up moto box to 1080p. I never like the pixelized and motion artifact watching sport with moto. I'm happy to say that it's all.all.all... good now :). Now i can use moto for sport if both of the tuners were used at Tivo.

Is this one-pixel wide lines?

I read somewhere it's a 2x2 pixels line. I could be wrong.

That looks about right for convergence, it looks as if blue is only slightly off, maybe about a half pixel at most? Red and green appear to be fine?

Frankly, it's hard to count with Panny's SS, there's were any pixel to be found. My sony was like blue off 1 pixels, 1/2 on red. The 2000u has mixed of RGB pixels all at different area.

Thanks for the screen shots! :)

Where is that number from? I think it's more like 6 megapixels.
The Imaging Science Foundation. 4000x4000 is what they quote as being equivalent to film. 6k may be close enough. There are a lot of factors here.

2000u does a wonderful job upscaling and deinterace the beat-up moto box to 1080p. I never like the pixelized and motion artifact watching sport with moto. I'm happy to say that it's all.all.all... good now :). Now i can use moto for sport if both of the tuners were used at Tivo.
What's the mode used for these pictures (Normal, Cinema1, Color1 etc)?

Hmmm, on your unit, how far do you have to be away to see the effects of the what looks like slight misconvergence? 1x? 0.5x? Closer than 0.5x screen widths?

I swear i can tell a very subtle red edge on the white pop-up menu box if i try. Those are fine pixel menu and it's about 14' from 106" screen.

As for movie or hd material, text is white, logo has not apparently color edge. White jersey or high contrast area has not CA or blooming effect. That wasn't the case with my hs51. I'm sensitive to such defect, i own severals fine camera lens and i can't stand looking at one.

Btw, what's your impression on black levels? The Panasonic lab never got 100% dark, so I couldn't really judge fade to black. Your comments? From what I saw in the light I was in, it was pretty damn impressive!

Well, I'm in a cave. Black is brilliant for LCD, i'm impressed. What's more impressive is the preset mode for color1 and cinema 1, one only need basic calibration to get this puppy up and running. :)

What's the mode used for these pictures (Normal, Cinema1, Color1 etc)?

All color1. Please take screen shot with chunk of salt. I'm just posting it for fun since i already set up the tripod or pixel misalignment.

All color1. Please take screen shot with chunk of salt. I'm just posting it for fun since i already set up the tripod or pixel misalignment.
Hard to tell if color is right or not, since there are too many factors here.
1. Projector
2. Screen
3. Camera W/B setting and other characteristics
4. Colorspace in JPG file
5. My monitor (too blue)

Anyway, looks nice and sharp, maybe a touch of EE, but there can be many reasons for that. Do you use the dynamic iris?

I read somewhere it's a 2x2 pixels line. I could be wrong.
If that's the case, it doesn't look bad at all. Not sure if this is due to panel misalignment or chromatic aberration. If it's CA it will vary at different parts of the image. It's a "nature of the beast" issue with most optics, especially at short throw distances.

Hard to tell if color is right or not, since there are too many factors here.
1. Projector
2. Screen
3. Camera W/B setting and other characteristics
4. Colorspace in JPG file
5. My monitor (too blue)

Anyway, looks nice and sharp, maybe a touch of EE, but there can be many reasons for that. Do you use the dynamic iris?

That's correct. Too many factors, not to mention i shoot with raw file, color has been reproduced with photoshop. Yes, Iris was on.

If that's the case, it doesn't look bad at all. Not sure if this is due to panel misalignment or chromatic aberration. If it's CA it will be vary at different parts of the image. It's a "nature of the beast" issue with most optics, especially at short throw distances.

Nope, definitely not CA. It would be a disaster for sport. I rather have misaligned pixel than CA cause i don't watch "screen pattern" that often :D:D

When you have all the lights out in your cave, can you notice the iris in action ever making the image brighter and darker like a strobe?

Iris movement is undetected. May be i need better scene for the test but so far so good.

Didn't we have a thread about why pick panny over sanyo somewhere. c4h mentioned sanyo is using 2 gen old iris and with no apparent iris improvement at all. That was my reason over sanyo.

Thanks for the report and the pics, zeroendless!
One comment about the convergence issue: there is indeed some misconvergence. I'm afraid that's just part of the problem, as it appears to exist some purple fringing from the lens and the blue channel looks a bit dispersed, as well (that of course, if we rule-out the possibility that your camera's lens may have contributed to the problem).
I did a little trick to check it out: I split your image to RGB channels, fixed the convergence and joined the channels back on. Here's how your AE2000 would look, if it didn't have any misconvergence.
Don't worry though -your AE2000 is (almost) fine! You don’t want to see how my Epson TW1000 looks like…

Fixed convergence
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93406&stc=1&d=1193907022

Red channel
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93410&stc=1&d=1193907022

Green channel
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93411&stc=1&d=1193907022

Blue channel
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=93412&stc=1&d=1193907022

If you look close enough, you can see some thin white areas near the borders of green and blue channels. They represent the amount of misconvergence they have, compared to the red channel. By the way, is this a pattern from the PJ's menu?

At these close images you can see how panasonic is compensating for SDE. Seems like the pixels are just barely a bit fuzzy to the point that they blend into the surrounding pixels. I imagine that these pics are so blown up that this is not viewable beyond one screen width. Is this correct?

@zeroendless:

I love your pictures!! Will you make some more? I really can't wait to put my eye on that unit!!:)

Zeroendless I am considering the panny as an upgrade to my epson 810. Is it bright enough to watch sports with moderate room light. I have a complete light controlled theater but sometimes like to have the lights on low when friends are over. The epson can get very bright .

All this sounds great. I know there are numerous firmware updates for hd/br dvd players. Is this true for projectors? Also, just curiosity, but where is the panasonic manufactured; Japan, China?
Thanks.

This PJ is looking like it for me, but will wait a couple of weeks until we know more. Here's how I would rank the new 1080p PJs at this point, based on professional & AVS user impressions I've read; obviously not first-hand...

Panny AE2000U: Seems to be the top contender for color accuracy, good grayscale out of the box, improved blacks, no visible pixel structure, better smooth-screen implementation, and the usual LCD mounting flexibility.
Epson 1080UB: Same price range as other PJs here? Guessing performance will be closer to the Panny's?
Optoma HD80: My current PJ is the Mits HC3000U 720p DLP & I'm used to its deep blacks wonderful PQ, so I had been mulling the HD80 as my next upgrade, until the Panny came along :). Usual DLP placement issues, including a huge offset. New firmware supports 1080p/24, so glad they got that done.
Sanyo Z2000: $500 less than the above two, but so-so grayscale & colors off a little.

My AE2000 should be at the house later today and I'll post my thoughts/impressions, etc. While I don't have colorfacts, etc. to get precise measurements I have had a number of projectors (most recently switching from SHARP 12000 DLP). Will keep you posted!

Why is this thread in above 3K forum?

Because the MSRP is $3499.00

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

...While I don't have colorfacts, etc. to get precise measurements I have had a number of projectors (most recently switching from SHARP 12000 DLP). ...Love to hear how it compares to the 12K as far as contrast is concerned!

Thanks for the report and the pics, zeroendless!
One comment about the convergence issue: there is indeed some misconvergence. I'm afraid that's just part of the problem, as it appears to exist some purple fringing from the lens and the blue channel looks a bit dispersed, as well (that of course, if we rule-out the possibility that your camera's lens may have contributed to the problem).
I did a little trick to check it out: I split your image to RGB channels, fixed the convergence and joined the channels back on. Here's how your AE2000 would look, if it didn't have any misconvergence.
Don't worry though -your AE2000 is (almost) fine! You don’t want to see how my Epson TW1000 looks like....

If you look close enough, you can see some thin white areas near the borders of green and blue channels. They represent the amount of misconvergence they have, compared to the red channel. By the way, is this a pattern from the PJ's menu?

Thanks for the works, I have 3 lcd before, Pixel misalignment is not new to me. Yes, one has to draw the acceptable line or not. The amount of misalignment is varies from one unit to amount. that's just part of the risk buying a LCD.

No, this pattern is coming from any Sony's BR disc. google "sony 7669". I’ll probably feed a much defined single line pixel later with HTPC.

More to come hopefully when I get the chance with HCFR calibration on this thing.

At these close images you can see how panasonic is compensating for SDE. Seems like the pixels are just barely a bit fuzzy to the point that they blend into the surrounding pixels. I imagine that these pics are so blown up that this is not viewable beyond one screen width. Is this correct?

They aren’t 100% crop. But I were to use wide angle lens, resize 8mp image file for 800 pixels width jpeg ,I doubt you’ll see the misalignment.

Friend of mine just purchased the sony aw15 not too long ago and we have probably 10 hours on my screen. The SDE is so defined it's day and night compare to Panny's SS. Like i said, you can't see the pixel even at 1' away. But, If i were to choose, i rather NOT having SS because like pixel misalignment, you can't see a darn thing from 1.5x. This is 1080p era. Panny need to include option to turn SS off.

Zeroendless I am considering the panny as an upgrade to my epson 810. Is it bright enough to watch sports with moderate room light. I have a complete light controlled theater but sometimes like to have the lights on low when friends are over. The epson can get very bright .
That a tough question as I don’t know how much ambient you got there. The dynamic mode is too bright it hurts my eyes in the cave even at eco mode but that’s with 4 hours new lamp. I have a 40 watt soft white right on top of project and the projector held strong with the light on, in eco mode on 2.5 gain screen. I can’t do that with 250+ lumens Sony. I hope to get the lumens count this weekend.
I love your pictures!! Will you make some more? I really can't wait to put my eye on that unit!!
Thanks Fox. I’ll try.

Zero,

Post unlimited pictures!

I'd like to see pictures displaying the projector's blaclk level. For example, the black bars of a 2.35:1 image next to black velvet (from screen, etc.). Any chance you have the Dark City DVD?

I'd like to see pictures displaying the projector's blaclk level. For example, the black bars of a 2.35:1 image next to black velvet (from screen, etc.). Any chance you have the Dark City DVD?

Do you really think you'll be able to get a feel for black levels using this method (from SS)? :confused:

Hand puppet pics might be better, but I doubt either will be of much value with screen shots.

Any suggestions for a complete projector noob, like myself?

Throwing 12 ft to a 120" 1.8 gain screen. Low to no ambient light.

Shelf mounted, about 6 ft from floor.

AE2000 shows up tomorrow!

Does the PJ need that much gain from 12 ft? It gets 24ftl at 120" from 12 ft with 1.8 gain. Probably pretty good thougH (especially considering halflife).

I'd like to see pictures displaying the projector's blaclk level. For example, the black bars of a 2.35:1 image next to black velvet (from screen, etc.).

+1.

I have been playing with the AX200u, and it's a great 100" picture from 10 ft away...but the black level leaves something to be desired.

Coming from a Sony LCD myself I understand just how distracting SDE is. Glad to see that this technology has overcome this.

Does the PJ need that much gain from 12 ft? It gets 24ftl at 120" from 12 ft with 1.8 gain. Probably pretty good thougH (especially considering halflife).

Well I originally purchased the AE1000u, where brightness was definitely in question... sent that back because the AE2000u came out the day after I purchased. So it is a concern of my that the screen may be a little too high gain. But it is gray, the thought was a brilliant/high contrast picture with deep blacks. Its my first screen so I'll learn with it and maybe upgrade in a couple years.

So do I need that much gain, probably not with the AE2000U...

Do you really think you'll be able to get a feel for black levels using this method (from SS)? :confused:

Hand puppet pics might be better, but I doubt either will be of much value with screen shots.

I guess the screen shots used on review sites like Projector Reviews are useless.

Well I originally purchased the AE1000u, where brightness was definitely in question... sent that back because the AE2000u came out the day after I purchased. So it is a concern of my that the screen may be a little too high gain. But it is gray, the thought was a brilliant/high contrast picture with deep blacks. Its my first screen so I'll learn with it and maybe upgrade in a couple years.

So do I need that much gain, probably not with the AE2000U...

How do you have your projector mounted?

I guess the screen shots used on review sites like Projector Reviews are useless.

More or less.

;-)

Actually, that isn't fair.

there are some things that can be gleaned from screen shots, but the one thing that really can not is color.

There are many aspects of color management. First, the color space the camera used to capture the image, second, the conversion (if any) to a useable color space, then the software to view the image, and finally the viewer's display (your monitor).

In the end, there is very very little that a screen shot really shows you.

that being said, they're fun!

I'm looking forward to reading a side by side comparison between the AE2000 and the AE1000.

I got sucked in by the hype for the AE2000 and decided to offer my 2 month old AE1000 for sale for $2,000 (see the AVS Marketplace if you are interested) so that I can upgrade.

Now I'm having second thoughts.

I like my AE1000 and I would have no problem keeping it, so I want to know if it's really worth taking a $700 loss (plus ~$50 S&H) on my AE1000 just to upgrade to the AE2000.

Obviously, the AE2000 is better than the AE1000, but are the improvements worth that much money?

Brightness is not really an issue, the AE1000 is fine in that department. So if a brigher picture is the only major improvement with the AE2000, it's probably not worth taking a $700+ hit by selling my AE1000.

What else should I know?

If you have an AE1000 and AE2000, please give me a detailed comparison review of the two.

Thanks!

Hi Steve,
My two cents:
I've spent some time with the AE1000 and it is a fine projector IMO. I would wait a generation or two before upgrading if I were you.

Also, I doubt you'd be able to sell the AE1000 for $2k... with the AE2000 already out and the Sanyo about to come it an just over $2k, it'd be a tough sell at that price. But good luck if you go that route.

Cheers,
-Chris

How do you have your projector mounted?

Shelf mounted, 12 ft throw, proj ~ 6 ft off ground centered on screen.

it is your civic duty to post unboxing screenshots if you are the first person on the forum to receive your unit. The lack of pictures in this thread makes me a sad panda. first person who posts a plethora of unboxing pics and screenshots wins a cookie

it is your civic duty to post unboxing screenshots if you are the first person on the forum to receive your unit. The lack of pictures in this thread makes me a sad panda. first person who posts a plethora of unboxing pics and screenshots wins a cookie

:-)

it is your civic duty to post unboxing screenshots if you are the first person on the forum to receive your unit. The lack of pictures in this thread makes me a sad panda. first person who posts a plethora of unboxing pics and screenshots wins a cookie

What flavor cookie.

What flavor cookie.

A browser cookie.

Hi Steve,
My two cents:
I've spent some time with the AE1000 and it is a fine projector IMO. I would wait a generation or two before upgrading if I were you.

-Chris

I'm leaning that way too.

I think I got too wrapped up in the hype over the AE2000.

I'm sure it's a great PJ, but so is the AE1000.

I'll probably pull my AE1000 off the market and just keep it, but I'd still like to read a comparison review to the AE2000.

If you have both, PLEASE let me know how they compare.

Thanks!

Steve

LOL MTyson!

This PJ is looking like it for me, but will wait a couple of weeks until we know more. Here's how I would rank the new 1080p PJs at this point, based on professional & AVS user impressions I've read; obviously not first-hand...

Panny AE2000U: Seems to be the top contender for color accuracy, good grayscale out of the box, improved blacks, no visible pixel structure, better smooth-screen implementation, and the usual LCD mounting flexibility.
Epson 1080UB: Same price range as other PJs here? Guessing performance will be closer to the Panny's?
Optoma HD80: My current PJ is the Mits HC3000U 720p DLP & I'm used to its deep blacks wonderful PQ, so I had been mulling the HD80 as my next upgrade, until the Panny came along :). Usual DLP placement issues, including a huge offset. New firmware supports 1080p/24, so glad they got that done.
Sanyo Z2000: $500 less than the above two, but so-so grayscale & colors off a little.


Brajesh,
Where would the JVC RS1 rank on your list? I'm anxious to see side by side comparisons to the RS1 since manufacturer's specs don't seem to mean much.

it is your civic duty to post unboxing screenshots if you are the first person on the forum to receive your unit. The lack of pictures in this thread makes me a sad panda. first person who posts a plethora of unboxing pics and screenshots wins a cookie

+1, on it's your honda civic duty

Hey guys,
So far we've only heard first impressions from 2 people who received theirs. Thanks Zero and dragon for taking the time.

Surely there must be more than 2 guys on AVS that ordered the AE2000.

I would like to hear opinions on what people think of the AE2000 vs the Sim2 (I know they should be in a different "league", especailly with different technology being used) - or a JVC RS1..

Just like researching the best bang for the buck...which doesn't necessarily mean the price tag is cheap.

-ELmO

Hey guys,
So far we've only heard first impressions from 2 people who received theirs. Thanks Zero and dragon for taking the time.

Surely there must be more than 2 guys on AVS that ordered the AE2000.

Yes but they are all watching movies!

Or at work.

A browser cookie.

This is all a browser cookie will get you.
93444

Or at work.

Exactly. My wife confirmed the projector is sitting on my theater floor just waiting! I'm going to try to sneak out early this afternoon and will post once I get things setup.

I would like to hear opinions on what people think of the AE2000 vs the Sim2 (I know they should be in a different "league", especailly with different technology being used) - or a JVC RS1..

Just like researching the best bang for the buck...which doesn't necessarily mean the price tag is cheap.

-ELmO
I think you know my stance on this, but you really need to take a look at each of them and weigh how much extra that additional 5-10% of performance is worth based on a 2 or 3 times increase in price. I also suggest you also take a look at the premium products of yesteryear ($10k-$25k) and see how they stack up today.

If value, money, or wanting current technology (by flipping them every year or two) is at all a concern, the answer is pretty clear in my mind.

Zeroendless,

How do games look on the new projector? Just curious as my setup would be a PS3/360/Wii...

Thanks, and love the pics...

Hey guys,
So far we've only heard first impressions from 2 people who received theirs. Thanks Zero and dragon for taking the time.

Surely there must be more than 2 guys on AVS that ordered the AE2000.


My ae2000 comes friday.I will post a quick take then 'then will sit back and take the time to really see what it can do.Have ax100 now with carada bw 110in screen:D

you wlil post a quick take and take pics, THEN sit back and take the time to really see what it can do. Got it Friend?

Got my AE2000 Today!!


Here's my quick take on it after 15 minutes of viewing and no calibration:


One Word: EXCELLENT!! :D:D


Compared to my current Sony VW-50: Brighter picture, contrast maybe slightly better, and more "pop" to the image. Right now, I'm playing with the settings on "Normal" picture mode. Colors are a little off in "Dynamic" mode. Very, very quiet machine. If somebody can tell me how to post some pics, I'll post a couple. So far, very impressive for a projector at this price.

Can you get hte pictures in JPG format? If you can email them to me, I can help post them for you - let me know.

You can use a multitude of sites, imageshack.us is just one of them.

AE2000 Pics--straight out-of-the-box:

I'm making myself wait until Monday to pull the trigger, but its going to be tough will all the good impressions so far. Want to make sure my first projector is a good one :)

Just a reminder guys:


Take these screenshot for what's it's really worth.....just a taste. There's too many variables involved that can affect what you really see on your monitor. To get a true sense of what this projector can really do, you have to audition it.....just like what you would do when you want to buy a new speaker.

AE2000 Pics--straight out-of-the-box:

I know you really can't tell alot from screenshots but that first pic was great. I'm a DLP guy but even the pic had pop, I imagine it looks much better in person. :)

Mike

I know you really can't tell alot from screenshots but that first pic was great. I'm a DLP guy but even the pic had pop, I imagine it looks much better in person. :)

Mike

I'm sure with some tweaking and proper calibration, the image would be incredible. Even straight out-of-the-box, what I saw was very, very good. I'm just in awe of how far the LCD has come.

I'm sure with some tweaking and proper calibration, the image would be incredible. Even straight out-of-the-box, what I saw was very, very good. I'm just in awe of how far the LCD has come.

Thanks for posting pic PSB.Please post any settings you like.Or should a tweak thread be started for the ae2000.What screen are you using also.:)

PSB
Have you tried it in color1, the most accurate color mode. How does it compare to the Pearl in that mode?

What mode was the pics taken in?

....Oh one more thing.......this thing is Sharp!.....as in tack sharp. More sharpness than my Sony VW-50. HD images on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD look awesome! Black levels as good as my Sony Pearl. I played a few minutes of a standard DVD movie and the image was pretty decent, too. More images to come.

The amount of misalignment is varies from one unit to amount. that's just part of the risk buying a LCD.
Did you notice if the problem varies with zoom and lens-shift settings? It may be the lens the one to blame and not the panels.

But, If i were to choose, i rather NOT having SS because like pixel misalignment, you can't see a darn thing from 1.5x. This is 1080p era. Panny need to include option to turn SS off.
Would you say that there's a sharpness issue with the AE2000? Could you compare it with other 1080 PJs, like eg Optoma HD80 or Benq W9000 or Sony VW60 (if you have seen any them, of course)?

Thanks for posting pic PSB.Please post any settings you like.Or should a tweak thread be started for the ae2000.What screen are you using also.:)


My screen is a 110" Da-Lite Cinemavision.

PSB
Have you tried it in color1, the most accurate color mode. How does it compare to the Pearl in that mode?

What mode was the pics taken in?


Haven't tried color 1 yet......so far, just playing around in "normal" and "dynamic" mode. The pics were taken in "normal' mode. Overall, from what I've seen so far, the image quality surpasses my Pearl.

How "sturdy" is the lens shift? I've heard that the JVC has had problems due to a plastic lens shift gear. The Pearl's was one of the only remote shifted lenses.

Problems due to SVS subwoofers. RobZ, everytime I see your avatar I think of Gremlins instead of Yoda.

....Oh one more thing.......this thing is Sharp!.....as in tack sharp. More sharpness than my Sony VW-50. HD images on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD look awesome! Black levels as good as my Sony Pearl. I played a few minutes of a standard DVD movie and the image was pretty decent, too. More images to come.

PSB,

How does it perform with some slight ambient light? Can you take a screenshot of that?

I am soooo jealous :)

This thread reminds me of Grease (not that I've ever watched it :o ).

"Tell me more. Tell me more. Like does it look really sharp?"

"Tell me more. Tell me more. Do it's blacks look real dark?"


:D :D

Problems due to SVS subwoofers.

Huh? Are you telling me my PB12 Plus/2 is going to shake any projector I use?? I just installed my component rack next to it, and every time King Kong roared, the 1/4" ply back panel resonated like an air horn! That I can fix, but not a projector.

I've yet to buy my projector. It's either the Panny 200, 2000, or the new 1080p Sanyo.

Huh? Are you telling me my PB12 Plus/2 is going to shake any projector I use?? I just installed my component rack next to it, and every time King Kong roared, the 1/4" ply back panel resonated like an air horn! That I can fix, but not a projector.

I've yet to buy my projector. It's either the Panny 200, 2000, or the new 1080p Sanyo.

Thats only the RS1.

More Pics:

Pic1: Normal mode (my favorite so far)
Pic2: Dynamic mode (brighter but colors off for now)
Pic3: Color1 mode

These are straight out-of-the-box pics w/no tweaking done. Pics were taken w/ a "cheap" Canon compact digital camera.....

Huh? Are you telling me my PB12 Plus/2 is going to shake any projector I use?? I just installed my component rack next to it, and every time King Kong roared, the 1/4" ply back panel resonated like an air horn! That I can fix, but not a projector.

I've yet to buy my projector. It's either the Panny 200, 2000, or the new 1080p Sanyo.

oh snap not to take this thread OT but SVS is nuts

More Pics yet again:


Pic1: Normal mode (my favorite so far)
Pic2: Dynamic mode (brighter but colors off for now)
Pic3: Color1 mode

These are straight out-of-the-box pics w/no tweaking done. Pics were taken w/ a "cheap" Canon compact digital camera.....

PSB,

How does it perform with some slight ambient light? Can you take a screenshot of that?

I am soooo jealous :)


Some ambient light is fine.....this thing is close to a "light cannon" as you can get.....of course total light control is recommended to get the best black levels, color fidelity, etc. but I can see this being in a "family" room. (I have mine in a dedicated theater room).

There's some pincoushining going on in your pics..is that with a 2.35 lense - or is that on a 1.78 screen?

All interesting questions because casino royale is a 2.35 movie and the black bars seem non existent would indicate excellent black levels?

ELmO

There's some pincoushining going on in your pics..is that with a 2.35 lense - or is that on a 1.78 screen?

All interesting questions because casino royale is a 2.35 movie and the black bars seem non existent would indicate excellent black levels?

ELmO



I have the usual 16 X 9 screen........I think that's a 1.78? I'll check on the pin-cushioning.........but I believe that's most likely due to my Cannon digital camera being in the "wide" setting (28mm) when I snapped the pic. (I also had to crouch down to take the pic as to not block the image with my head)

Yup.....I checked......all the pics I posted were taken with my camera in "wide" lens mode (28mm).........which explains the "pin-cushioning."...........BTW, black levels are excellent!:)

More Pics yet again:


Pic1: Normal mode (my favorite so far)
Pic2: Dynamic mode (brighter but colors off for now)
Pic3: Color1 mode

These are straight out-of-the-box pics w/no tweaking done. Pics were taken w/ a "cheap" Canon compact digital camera.....

PSB, at least according to the pics you've posted, color1, by far, looks the most natural. Normal mode looks cartoonish.

Why normal? Even on your cheap compact digicam you can see the ringing on the normal compared to the Color1. Look at the blade on the plane, it has this white ring around it, it's not in the second picture. It's not being added by the camera either, it's on the first set of pics too. Look at her cheeks, you'll notice normal is smoothed out and you can't see the imperfections on her face, but can with Color1.

Pics aren't 100% "useless", it'll show to some extent what kind of image processing is done to the picture. Also it clearly shows how violently more red is in the normal mode compared to Color1. I can personally tell you that's about the same amount or more as when I saw it in the two modes.

Color1 is too dark for me......maybe after some tweaking, it'll get better? We'll see...........as for the posted pics, yeah you can get some idea of what the pj is capable of but once again, don't put too much into it. There's simply way too many variables that you can't control. It's like judging how good a speaker sounds merely by listening to a posted MP3 file.

I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy." Maybe with some tweaking, I can get colors just right......but if I can't, so what?.....that's how I like it. The dynamic setting is too bright for me and the colors oversaturated......some may like this and it's their choice.....there's no right or wrong about it. Some people find Klipsch speakers too harsh and "bright"........others find it "detailed" and "exact"......once again, no right or wrong about it. So far, from what I've seen in my short time with it today, I'm quite impressed with the AE2000.

Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ??? :confused:

Left is "Normal", right is "Color1". How could you prefer left according to this comparison ??? :confused:



It isn't that obvious in reality.......once again, don't put everything into those pics! (also, color1 is much darker than you see in the posted pic.....my camera boosted the ISO to 800 to get an adequate image).

I'd like to see pictures displaying the projector's blaclk level. For example, the black bars of a 2.35:1 image next to black velvet (from screen, etc.). Any chance you have the Dark City DVD?
I’ll find something similar for the task, I don’t have the dark city.
How do games look on the new projector? Just curious as my setup would be a PS3/360/Wii...

Thanks, and love the pics...
I own zero game tittle. :o, sorry. But I will have my first ps3 game when my wound heals completely. :D
Did you notice if the problem varies with zoom and lens-shift settings? It may be the lens the one to blame and not the panels.
Zoom about 1.4x and Pj seats within 10% of axis, almost center. So it should be fall within minimum mechanical defect if any.
Would you say that there's a sharpness issue with the AE2000? Could you compare it with other 1080 PJs, like eg Optoma HD80 or Benq W9000 or Sony VW60 (if you have seen any them, of course)?
No, I prefer to have an option able to turn ss on/off than a fixed variable. That doesn’t imply that it’s soft. :) As you can see, PSB says it’s very sharp compare to his aw50. This smart sharpnening/Detail Clarity Processor + smooth screen thingie would be very beneficial to users with less than 1.5x screen distance. I think the reviewer would be using term like film-like with a touch of clarity.

PSB, at least according to the pics you've posted, color1, by far, looks the most natural. Normal mode looks cartoonish.


I agree color 1 looks very good.In normal his face is orange :eek:
On my ax100 I do like the normal mode.But the colors had to be
tone down some what.Thanks PSB for taking the time to show us.:)

Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ??? :confused:

Wow...


I would like to see the comparison of color 1 and cinema 1.

I think the Best suggestion here for anybody who's seriously interested in the AE2000 and for those with a thousand questions is to simply audition the machine at your local retailer or at a friend's who has the machine.....or better yet buy the machine from a reputable dealer, try it out at home in your favorite room in ideal settings, and if you don't like it, return it.......simple as that. Owners can post a thousand pictures here and if it wasn't dsclosed where it came from, it could be from a thousand different projectors. Audition it and see it for yourself.

PSB,
Your comment that Color1 seem too dark on your screen concerns me, because that's the mode I'll want to use with this projector.

Can you specify the exact values you used for the following options ?:
1. You used 110" 16:9 screen, right ?
2. Lamp on eco or normal ?
3. The zoom range on the AE2000 goes from 1 (smallest screen) to 2 (biggest screen), at which point between 1 and 2 are you using it ? ? (zoom point dramatically changes brightness).

For example, the AX200 projector is an amazing light canon, but when you use it on Cinema1 (which I think is the equivalent to color1 of the AE2000, in terms of brightness), with lamp on eco and zoom on 1, you only get ~250 lumens, which is not enough to drive a 110" screen (You only get 6.9 foot lamberts, where the minimum recommended is about 12).

I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy." Maybe with some tweaking, I can get colors just right......but if I can't, so what?.....that's how I like it. The dynamic setting is too bright for me and the colors oversaturated......some may like this and it's their choice.....there's no right or wrong about it. Some people find Klipsch speakers too harsh and "bright"........others find it "detailed" and "exact"......once again, no right or wrong about it. So far, from what I've seen in my short time with it today, I'm quite impressed with the AE2000.


PSB, I just want to thank you for taking the time to post pics & respond to some of the posts on here thus far. Ultimately, the color you like is what matters most.

I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy."

I've had my AE1000 for 8 months and I've finally realised that I prefer 'Cinema 1' to the much lauded 'Colour 1' and I tweak the 'Low Gamma' to +2 or +3 to bring up dark shadow detail...I like it so much better, I've deceided to wait until next year at least before replacing it. With the 'offical' settings I was dissatisfied with dark films/scenes and thinking I'd wasted my money or was over picky. It what you like that matters..just like adding a bit of bass or treble on your amp. Thanks for taking the time to show us the screenshots.:)

Wow...


I would like to see the comparison of color 1 and cinema 1.

I'd be interested, but maybe the difference might not be picked up by the camera as it seems quite subtle in the flesh with the AE1000, more todo with shadow detail it seemed to me.

Audition it and see it for yourself.
Amen...only your eyes matter in the end.;)

Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ??? :confused:

I agree. But I'm sure PSB isn't blind and the pics don't accurately reflect what he's really seeing.

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them :)

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them :)

Exactly, he took the time to do something for us since there is not too mant pictures so far in this thread....

I agree. But I'm sure PSB isn't blind and the pics don't accurately reflect what he's really seeing.

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...

What exactly does cinema 1 do to the image?

I've read the manual and its not very specific about the settings other than color 1 and color 2.

That's the "danger" of posting pics.........some "expert" will use that as "biblical" fact to point out the apparent flaw/inferiority in the projector. Some of the projectors I've had in the past include the Sanyo PLV-70, Sharp Z12000, Optoma H79, and Sony VW-50.........and I'll tell you, the Panny has a brighter, sharper and more dynamic picture that any of those. But don't rely everything on what I or anybody here say............audition, audition, audition.

and audition some more!

Cinema1 uses the Dcinema color space, which is absolutely 100% useless unless you film your own movies using the Dcinema standard. Color1 uses ITU-R BT 709 for HDTV. Color2 uses an eye candy J6P version of Color1 for more "pop" and "vivid" images, which also turns on many "image enhancement" features too.

Interesting, because the manual says that color 2 is SMTPE431-2 DCDM (whatever that means! lol).

It says the same as you said for color1

Cinema 1 just says "Hollywood colors"

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...


.....Yes, that's right. The colors on Color1 maybe more accurate than "normal" mode, but it's so dim on my 110" screen, it's almost unwatchable. Maybe some vigorous tweaking may change that later but for right now, I'm happy with "normal" mode. But as I mentioned before, I prefer a more bright and livelier image than anything else.......nothing wrong with that. (It's one of the primary reasons why I bought the Panny). If some "guru" tells me otherwise, they can go take a flying leap off of some very tall structure. :)

How is the projector for watching football? Any problems with white stripes having color fringing? Is the motion smooth? I read a few posts that the RS1 had a weird color effect on the black/white strips of an official's uniform. I'm also concerned with sharpness when the players/ball is moving quickly across the screen.

it ok if you watchinga bad team like the bengals the ball wont move fast

Oh, Cinema1 is simulating Dcinema within the REC 709 color space (so my stance still stands, stupid). Color2 is the actual BRAND NEW Dcinema color space which hasn't even been finalized yet which is based off of REC 709 but with an extended gamut. So if Blu-ray or HD-DVD ever use D-Cinema colors, you'll be set! Otherwise the other modes are pretty much marketing mumbo jumbo.

RP 431-2-2007 D-Cinema Quality – Reference Projector and Environment

What would be the advantage to cinema1?

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...I believe you are 100% correct! According to my friend who is evaluating the Panny 2000 for post production work, the unit outputs ~400 lumens in Color1 and ~1,000 lumens in Normal! Normal, however is very inaccurate.

The reason I asked PSB to look at Color1 is that for a lot of people brighter is better, period. If they are looking at two settings, they will choose the brighter one. If they compare two projectors, they will choose the brighter one. Unfortunately, thats the HVS for you. :D

.....Yes, that's right. The colors on Color1 maybe more accurate than "normal" mode, but it's so dim on my 110" screen, it's almost unwatchable. Maybe some vigorous tweaking may change that later but for right now, I'm happy with "normal" mode. But as I mentioned before, I prefer a more bright and livelier image than anything else.......nothing wrong with that. (It's one of the primary reasons why I bought the Panny). If some "guru" tells me otherwise, they can go take a flying leap off of some very tall structure. :)

I like a bright and lively image as you say as well.. But i absolutely hate that orange flesh tone. Have you tried messing around with the picture where you can split the screen in two and adjust the skin tone? That seems to me all it needs adjusting.

... But as I mentioned before, I prefer a more bright and livelier image than anything else.......nothing wrong with that. (It's one of the primary reasons why I bought the Panny)...Well said!:D
It is important for us to have that context when you say one setting is better than another, or one projector is better than another.

Ok, so here's a color question:

HDTV uses REC709. HDM (bluray and HD DVD) use REC709. SO color 1 should work.

What about games (xbox 360 and ps3)

What about regular dvd that is upscaled? Does the upscale unit (ps3, or the like) convert the color space to REC709, or will they be "off" using color1?

AE2000 Review - First Impressions

I've just spent about 2 hours testing the projector, running several DVDs, testing HD Dish and overall I am very impressed with the projector. It has many pros and a few cons and most of my comparisons will be against the Sharp 12000 (720p high-end, at least at the time, DLP). I'll get into the details below but the projector is a keeper for me.

Brightness
Projector brightness is more than enough to fill my 110" Carada BW (1.4 gain screen). I had a hard time seeing a huge brightness jump between eco mode and normal mode so I just kept it on econo mode. In normal mode it was very bright but colors were not right, so I kept it in either color1 or cinema1. Compared to my sharp which has around 1000 hours on the bulb and I have it in high brightness mode, the AE2000 is clearly brighter. Of course if the sharp were with a new bulb I would say they were close. So my guesstimate would be... if I were placing a bet... that the AE2000 in COLOR1 mode is around ~500-600 lumens in econo mode. This is a total guess.

Contrast
So this is my first projector with a dynamic IRIS and at times it seemed like the contrast was much better than the sharp 12K (especially when the 12K was in high brightness mode) and at other times I felt like the sharp 12K had better contrast (maybe becuase the 12K has higher ansi). For example in star wars 3 during the opening space dog fight scene it seemed like there were more details in the background (I'll try to snap some pictures of the scenes I am referring to) or in the mines of moria (fellowship of the ring) the projector showed more details to me. Any ideas for good material to test ANSI contrast or On/Off?? I have a lot of material around and would be happy to give impressions. The black bars at the top and bottom of the screen are noticeable, more so than on the 12K and so I'll still use my masking setup. I think overall black level is higher than my sharp 12K so that may also be why I see black bars more. I plan on spending more time looking at contrast material next. Any suggestions?


Color
Color is fantastic when using Color1 or Cinema1 as reported earlier. Color seems just as good as on the 12K. But honestly I am not too sensitive to pefect color space debates. I certainly can tell that Normal mode looks off or unrealistic. I liked my sharp 12K image and I think I like the overall color of this unit just as much. I think I prefer Color1 mode the most.


Sharpness
When feeding it HD material it was VERY sharp. When using some of my SD or sat 720p material it wasn't as sharp as the 12K (at least from what I could tell). I wonder if either that is because with the sharp there was perfect pixel mapping or if maybe smoothscreen does something when the source image has more noise. Or it could just be that SD doesn't look as good as HD :). Need some more testing here for SD material/720p material.

Scaler/SD
Doesn't seem very good compared to the sharp 12K. Again I am no expert but when feeding it 480i or even 480p I noticed jaggies, ghosting, stair stepping... all those sorts of picture artifacts (all via component). I need to get things working via HDMI for SD picture feed (I am in the process of getting a working Onkyo 805 receiver that does 720P scaling... although now I may change my mind and go with a Denon receiver that will scale my SAT feed to 1080p). Anyway, I am interested to see what others have to say on this since I don't know if it's just my setup. Need more testing here but this would be an area they may have cut.

Features
Overall very impressed. More quiet... Only thing missing comapred to my sharp that I recall is the CMS stuff... it has a lot of other new stuff. I need to read up on the waveform setup, etc. But for the price I paid I am surprised of all the features such as motor zoom, focus. My sharp was manual here. The lens shift is helpful when tinkering but ultimitly won't matter much once I ceiling mount. Remote is backlit. Menu was easy to use and the ability to do splitscreen color adjustments was kinda cool. I wanted to do a split screen with one side as color1 and the other as cinema1 but it wouldn't work or at least I couldn't get it.


Ok more details later, but overall I am very pleased with the projector, I feel it's an upgrade from my 12K, and to top it off I am thrilled that it's about 6K less than the price I paid for my last projector!!

99% of SD DVDs use REC709, except some screwball DVDs like Murder She Wrote, which you'll see a slight greenish tint using REC709. XBOX 360 and PS3 both use REC709 too.
480i/p component data is encoded using REC601, not REC709. This goes for both cable, satellite and DVD content. Almost all content is mastered with REC601 primaries, since few studio monitors use REC709 primaries.

gkfisher
thanks for the detailed report. In which scenes did the 12K have better contrast?

GKF, Thanks for the review! One question, what's your throw distance. I have a pretty long throw so I'm hoping I don't lose too much pop.

i have the pani 900. looking to upgrade to a 1080p. can anyone tell me if there is a big jump in sharpness? i feel the 900 is too soft of a pic.

I have an AE1000 with 116 hours on it. I use Cinema 1 for watching movies and Color 1 for watching football games (and other programs) in HDTV. That is what the settings were desigined for.

Cinema1 was designed by a hollywood colorist to match the typical film color palette, hence the term "hollywood colors."

Color1 was designed to exactly match the specs for HDTV.

The reason those settings may seem dim to you is because there is an internal filter that drops into place when you use those settings, effectively reducing the lumen output of the PJ by about 50%.

When you use "normal" or "dynamic" settings you are NOT using the internal filter and you get the full brightness of the projector, so naturally those settings appear brigther.

I have a light controlled home theater, so I prefer Cinema 1 and Color 1 for their more accurate colors, but if you have some ambient light or you just like a bright "TV like" picture, you will probably prefer "normal."

"Dynamic" is a blown out picture setting that is designed for rooms with LOTS of ambient light. It is very bright, but also very inaccurate in terms of color, etc.

Now, I know you guys are all excited about your new AE2000's and I hate to intrude on this discusssion, but I sure would like to hear how the AE2000 compares to the "old" AE1000 if any of you can compare them side by side, or from memory.

My understanding is the primary improvements are in brightness and in contrast? Is it a "big" difference? Anything else really stand out?

Thanks, Steve

csundbom wrote:

"480i/p component data is encoded using REC601, not REC709. This goes for both cable, satellite and DVD content. Almost all content is mastered with REC601 primaries, since there few studio monitors that use REC709 primaries."

So the question is: does the AE2000 have a color mode with REC601 primaries that is accurate for watching DVDs?

The black bars at the top and bottom of the screen are noticeable, more so than on the 12K and so I'll still use my masking setup. I think overall black level is higher than my sharp 12K so that may also be why I see black bars more.

This is because the PJ is brighter. Install a ND2 or ND4 on the Panny so they are similar in brightness and I suspect you'll change your mind. Either way, you'll still want to use the masking...

I should also note that using an ND filter will lower your ANSI, but the black levels will be lower.

So the question is: does the AE2000 have a color mode with REC601 primaries that is accurate for watching DVDs?
No, but REC709 primaries are reasonably close. The main difference is a more saturated green. It may be possible to bring green in line with the CMS functions.

Even so ( I was sure DVDs were REC709, with only SD DV like xvid, etc were REC601), shouldn't a proper DVD upscaling player, Sat and cable receivers use a color matrix conversion table from REC601 to REC709 when outputting 720p and 1080i/p? All HD resolutions are supposed to be output as REC709?

No, SD DVD is REC 601.

Few boxes (DVD or cable) will do the type of signal processing you'd need for the conversion.

OTOH, I'd have no problem using the REC 709 setting for the limited SD DVD usage I do anyway. The colors will only be slightly oversaturated.

Even so ( I was sure DVDs were REC709, with only SD DV like xvid, etc were REC601), shouldn't a proper DVD upscaling player, Sat and cable receivers use a color matrix conversion table from REC601 to REC709 when outputting 720p and 1080i/p? All HD resolutions are supposed to be output as REC709?

US DVDs are encoded at 480i, component 4:2:0 using REC601. REC601 is also used for cable and satellite SD.

An up-converting DVD player (cable/satellite box) should transform REC601 to REC709 when using component cables or YCbCr over HDMI. Otherwise the set will interpret the colors wrong. If the player sends RGB over HDMI, it doesn't matter, since the color transform is already complete.

My preference for SD content is to set the equipment to output 480i REC601 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 YCbCr over HDMI whenever possible to avoid extra color space transforms.

If you're not using HDMI w/the Panny, you might as well return the PJ.....I mean what's the point of buying a 1080p PJ if you're not gonna take full advantage of it?........it's silly.....you're better off with a good 720p unit. That being said, with all the PJ's I've owned in the past 5 years, this is easily the best. And talk about value..........you're getting Corvette performance for Honda price. Two years ago, such performance for under $3 grand would've been considered pure fantasy. Hands down, for me, this is easily the best bang-for-the-buck PJ of 2007.

Which 1080i outputting DVD upscaling player would you recommend? As I already stated, both Denon and Oppo don't state if they do the conversion. Both Denon and Oppo are supposed to be the premier choice. I don't want to spend over $1,000 either.

I hate why this has to be so complicated. Why couldn't Panasonic have added a REC601 to REC709 menu option?:mad:
Run the Oppo in 1080i or 1080p in RGB over HDMI mode and you should be ok. Also audition the 480p setting, could be even better.

My throw distance is about 12.5feet on 110" screen. Ceiling mount now.

I have been spending a lot of time going between sharp and ae2000 on contrast scenes. My problem is getting an apples to apples comparison since the sharp has 1000 hours. I am finding that more and more the AE2000 seems to show more detail. I am giong to test some scenes in sin city to see if some of the high ANSI parts make a stand for DLP. This projector is really amazing.

Edited to update more precise throw distance

This is because the PJ is brighter. Install a ND2 or ND4 on the Panny so they are similar in brightness and I suspect you'll change your mind. Either way, you'll still want to use the masking...

I should also note that using an ND filter will lower your ANSI, but the black levels will be lower.

I don't think you can say that just because a pj is brighter that it necessarily has higher black levels. My Marantz VP4001 is brighter than my old Mits HC3000, and the Marantz definitely has darker blacks. You may be able to compensate for weaker blacks with a ND2 or ND4, but that comes at a cost, as you note. Heck, I can have true black by simply not turning my pj on and just listening to the movie, but that's not a price I'm willing to pay!

Well I finally got my 2000 up and running. Haven't been able to watch much on it so far. I will say that it kills my PT-AE900U. The image is brighter, clearer (sharper), and colors look fantastic. Black is now black when it was almost black with a hint of gray with the 900U. Shadows and dark scenes are way better looking to me. The 2000 is quieter to me also. Running in econo mode it is hard to hear. I have a fully light controlled theater room with no windows or stray light. Color1 looks good but I have to try the other modes out when I get the time.
I was a little surprised how much bigger it is than the 900U and the lens shift/focus is leaps ahead of the 900U's little joy stick/manual focus.
One problem I have run into is I can't get a HDMI signal to sync with my DVDO VP30. I will work with it to find a solution. That really sucks because I used it to do all up conversion and splitting. I only have one HDMI cable run to the projector and 4 sources. May not be a problem for long once I get my Onkyo 885P.
So far I will have to say I am pleased with the projector.

I will post some more later.

... My problem is getting an apples to apples comparison since the sharp has 1000 hours. I am finding that more and more the AE2000 seems to show more detail...With that kind of mileage on the 12K's bulb you need at least a ND2 on the Panny 2000 to compare to the 12K in high contrast.

Leelo jump scene from Fifth Element is a frequently cited DLP showcase.

Do you have dark walls and ceiling? With the Panny approaching 400:1 ANSI CR the 750:1 12K may not show it's mixed/bright scene prowess unless one has a black covered bat cave! :)

Ah ok, thanks. So what happens when you output as HDMI RGB? The Denon DVD-2930CI has a 1080i HDMI RGB mode, that's the one I've been looking at. Is HDMI RGB REC709? Will the Panny convert HDMI RGB to REC709?:confused:
I apologize for going off topic.

SMPTE standards 601 and 709 cover a lot of ground, and we need to clarify.

SMPTE 601 covers standard definition (480)
SMPTE 709 covers high definition (720/1080)

These standards specify compression methods, primary CIE coordinates, white point etc. To discuss this, we need to talk the same language.

Basic facts:

1. Cameras capture video as RGB (red, green, blue).
2. Televisions and projectors use RGB to display the picture.
3. RGB data is large and require lots of storage.
4. To be able to transmit/store video efficiently, we need to compress it.
5. SMPTE 601 and 709 use “component” or “YCbCr” compression.
6. The compression algorithms differ between 601 and 709.
7. Data stored on DVD, HD DVD, Blu-ray or transmitted over satellite and cable is in “component” format.

A source device (DVD player, cable box) is responsible for transmitting data to your set encoded with SMPTE 601 for SD content and SMPTE 709 for HD content. An alternative is for the source device to convert the data back to RGB first and send that instead.

HDMI supports both methods, DVI supports RGB only, analog component cables support component only.

Once the data is back in RGB color space, the set will map it into its color space. Some sets have fixed coordinates for R, G and B and some sets have configurable primaries. Some implement SMPTE 601 coordinates (most CRTs), and some implement SMPTE 709 coordinates. Some follow no standard at all.

To answer your question: If your Oppo/Denon DVD player is sending RGB data, it transmits the correct information to the set, irrespectively if you are up converting or not. It’s up to the projector to map RGB correctly into its internal color palette. Color1 seems to be the most accurate since it follows SMPTE 709 coordinates. It’s not 100% correct for SD content that expect SMPTE 601 coordinates. However, it’s probably close enough and I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

I don't want to clog up the thread, so please PM me if you need more detail.

it ok if you watchinga bad team like the bengals the ball wont move fast

Hey I am a Bengal's fan.Your right though they suck,What Happen.Time for a new coach.I won't even waste my bulb on my new ae2000 watching them.But I will watch the game of the year,Colts vs Patriots:D

i'm a bengals fan too man...=(

AE2000 Review - First Impressions

I've just spent about 2 hours testing the projector, running several DVDs, testing HD Dish and overall I am very impressed with the projector. It has many pros and a few cons and most of my comparisons will be against the Sharp 12000 (720p high-end, at least at the time, DLP). I'll get into the details below but the projector is a keeper for me.

Brightness
Projector brightness is more than enough to fill my 110" Carada BW (1.4 gain screen). I had a hard time seeing a huge brightness jump between eco mode and normal mode so I just kept it on econo mode. In normal mode it was very bright but colors were not right, so I kept it in either color1 or cinema1. Compared to my sharp which has around 1000 hours on the bulb and I have it in high brightness mode, the AE2000 is clearly brighter. Of course if the sharp were with a new bulb I would say they were close. So my guesstimate would be... if I were placing a bet... that the AE2000 in COLOR1 mode is around ~500-600 lumens in econo mode. This is a total guess.

Contrast
So this is my first projector with a dynamic IRIS and at times it seemed like the contrast was much better than the sharp 12K (especially when the 12K was in high brightness mode) and at other times I felt like the sharp 12K had better contrast (maybe becuase the 12K has higher ansi). For example in star wars 3 during the opening space dog fight scene it seemed like there were more details in the background (I'll try to snap some pictures of the scenes I am referring to) or in the mines of moria (fellowship of the ring) the projector showed more details to me. Any ideas for good material to test ANSI contrast or On/Off?? I have a lot of material around and would be happy to give impressions. The black bars at the top and bottom of the screen are noticeable, more so than on the 12K and so I'll still use my masking setup. I think overall black level is higher than my sharp 12K so that may also be why I see black bars more. I plan on spending more time looking at contrast material next. Any suggestions?


Color
Color is fantastic when using Color1 or Cinema1 as reported earlier. Color seems just as good as on the 12K. But honestly I am not too sensitive to pefect color space debates. I certainly can tell that Normal mode looks off or unrealistic. I liked my sharp 12K image and I think I like the overall color of this unit just as much. I think I prefer Color1 mode the most.


Sharpness
When feeding it HD material it was VERY sharp. When using some of my SD or sat 720p material it wasn't as sharp as the 12K (at least from what I could tell). I wonder if either that is because with the sharp there was perfect pixel mapping or if maybe smoothscreen does something when the source image has more noise. Or it could just be that SD doesn't look as good as HD :). Need some more testing here for SD material/720p material.

Scaler/SD
Doesn't seem very good compared to the sharp 12K. Again I am no expert but when feeding it 480i or even 480p I noticed jaggies, ghosting, stair stepping... all those sorts of picture artifacts (all via component). I need to get things working via HDMI for SD picture feed (I am in the process of getting a working Onkyo 805 receiver that does 720P scaling... although now I may change my mind and go with a Denon receiver that will scale my SAT feed to 1080p). Anyway, I am interested to see what others have to say on this since I don't know if it's just my setup. Need more testing here but this would be an area they may have cut.

Features
Overall very impressed. More quiet... Only thing missing comapred to my sharp that I recall is the CMS stuff... it has a lot of other new stuff. I need to read up on the waveform setup, etc. But for the price I paid I am surprised of all the features such as motor zoom, focus. My sharp was manual here. The lens shift is helpful when tinkering but ultimitly won't matter much once I ceiling mount. Remote is backlit. Menu was easy to use and the ability to do splitscreen color adjustments was kinda cool. I wanted to do a split screen with one side as color1 and the other as cinema1 but it wouldn't work or at least I couldn't get it.


Ok more details later, but overall I am very pleased with the projector, I feel it's an upgrade from my 12K, and to top it off I am thrilled that it's about 6K less than the price I paid for my last projector!!


Thanks for your insight.Have you tried a Hddvd player yet,It will upscale SDVD better that the ae2000 I bet.Thanks for your impressions.Be great if we could post what screen we are using and dvd playersThanks:)

Which make and model screen do you have? Gain? Do you find Color1 to be adequate brightness on your 110"? That's the size I want to get too!

My screen is a Carada Brilliant White (1.4 gain published spec). I have a completly dark room, painted walls, ceiling and dark floor.

I am using Color1 mode and it is definitly bright enough even in econo-mode, of course this is a new bulb. From what I remember (this is a strech comparision) this projector seems brighter than my SHARP 12K when I got a new bulb which is why I estimated that is was probably showing around 500-600 lumens in Color1.

I have been using my pioneer elite DVD player to upconvert SD. I should note that I've tweaked the PJ settings some (there is a frame response setting and cinema filter setting that adjust how images are de-interlaced,etc.). I think using my pioneer elite to output progressive has helped and by outputting 480P or 720P my SD DVD collection is looking very good.

Of course HD is the way to go... I only have a 1080i HD DVD player (toshiba HDA2). I know I need to get a 1080P HD DVD or blueray player but I'm waiting for one that will output bitstream DTS HD, etc. Anyway, HD material is fantastic.

I have found one quirk/firmware bug and it's repeatable on my unit. Here are the steps to create the hang, interested to see if other users have this quirk:
1) Watching video via Component video (maybe any input will work)
2) Use the freaze feature to lock the video frame
3) Hit the pic-mode to switch between color1-Color2-Cinema1, etc.
4) And while the selection mini-menu is showing color mode options, push the arrow on the D-pad to the right
And the projector will "recycle"

I will watch the game of the year,Colts vs Patriots:D

Not me....I'll be there :D Go Colts!!

I was a little surprised how much bigger [the ae2000] is

Me too... actually that was the very first thought during unpacking. I was expecting it to be a bit smaller. It is smaller than the 12K but not by that much. Mounting the projector was very easy (it's a lot lighter).

One other surprise was how quiet it is during operation (I always ran my 12K in high-power lamp mode), and how when you switch color modes you hear a gear shift sound (color filter insert?).

This morning I will take some pics for fun and will post. I think I have 9 hours on the lamp already :).

i'm a bengals fan too man...=(

As a Steelers fan, I love watching the bengals this year :p

Anyone know if there is an vertical image shifting option in the menu? Usually there is an H & V image adjustment. If so, does it allow for a 2.35:1 image to be shifted entirely to the bottom of the screen or is it only a fine range with limited vertical movement?

My ae2000 just arrived from Fedx,I just got back from walmart and got a HD-A2 for $98
And the fedx truck was pulling up.Great timing.I will post later on.I will be using my HD-A1 to the ae2000 to Carada 110in br screen.

Thanks csundbom.

The information you provided on SMPTE standards 601 and 709 is much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to post.

Thanks to all the feedback in the forum, my AE2000 is set for delivery this afternoon. I will post some images and test with a variety of gaming sources both in and out of ambient light.

Game on!

I just got back from walmart and got a HD-A2 for $98.

Thanks for the reminder. I just picked one up!

.....Yes, that's right. The colors on Color1 maybe more accurate than "normal" mode, but it's so dim on my 110" screen, it's almost unwatchable. Maybe some vigorous tweaking may change that later but for right now, I'm happy with "normal" mode. But as I mentioned before, I prefer a more bright and livelier image than anything else.......nothing wrong with that. (It's one of the primary reasons why I bought the Panny). If some "guru" tells me otherwise, they can go take a flying leap off of some very tall structure. :)

PSB, what is the throw distance of your AE2000U? Is it ceiling mounted? Tried to search to see if this was mentioned...couldn't find...and I think it is important for the brightness comments. Thanks!

A friend of mine received his AE2000 yesterday.
I was very curious to know how bright it was in each mode.

He was nice enough to email me the results of his measurements late last night.

Mode Throw Lumens (eco mode)

Cinema1 Min 410 (350)
Cinema1 Max 250 (215)

Color1 Min 450 (380)
Color1 Max 255 (220)

Normal Min 795 (675)
Normal Max 465 (395)

Dynamic Min 1525 (1295)
Dynamic Max 920 (780)


Min = closest to the screen
Max = furthest from the screen

All measurements with iris ON.


** Updated:
Original measurements were with lamp on Normal (high).
Eco mode seems to drop lumens by about 14% added nbrs in "( )"

Joe Black, what are your thoughts on those?
I'm glad to see they were able to hit 1500 as spec'd, in dynamic mode. The AX200 I have hits over 2000 in dynamic, it'sa torch but works very well with ambient light in the room!!!

PSB, what is the throw distance of your AE2000U? Is it ceiling mounted? Tried to search to see if this was mentioned...couldn't find...and I think it is important for the brightness comments. Thanks!


My throw is a little less than 13 ft. It is ceiling-mounted. My screen is a 110" Da-Lite Cinemavision. My sources are a Onkyo 875 receiver (new model which decodes Dolby TrueHD and has HDMI 1.3 inputs), a Panasonic Blu-ray player (new model which decodes Dolby TrueHD), a DirecTV HD-DVR, and a Toshibia XA2 HD-DVD player (which also decodes Dolby TrueHD). Along with my new Panny, I'm in A/V Nirvana, folks! :D

Good to hear about the light output. My 2000 will be here on Tuesday. It'll be nice to see if it lights up my 119" HP with a little ambient light.

Anyone know about the image shift?

Who's gonna start the tweaks and settings thread?

I had the pleasure to spend a few hours with the 2k again last night. My friend brought his by.
I hooked up my Toshiba XA2 set to output 1080P 24. Worked and looked great.
This projector has lot of potential with all its features. I had no idea how to utilize some of the color settings in the menu, looks like everything but the kitchen sink is in there.
I used an anamorphic lens and was glad to see the projector has the needed anamorphic squeeze mode for using such a lens.
Picture looked great. They are really coming along. Black level and contrast were right up there with the other technologies. Lots of gamma tweaking and to many other features to learn in one session but this is one value packed monster.
Enjoy.

A friend of mine received his AE2000 yesterday.
I was very curious to know how bright it was in each mode.

He was nice enough to email me the results of his measurements late last night.

Mode Throw Lumens (eco mode)

Cinema1 Min 410 (350)
Cinema1 Max 250 (215)

Color1 Min 450 (380)
Color1 Max 255 (220)

Normal Min 795 (675)
Normal Max 465 (395)

Dynamic Min 1525 (1295)
Dynamic Max 920 (780)


Min = closest to the screen
Max = furthest from the screen

All measurements with iris ON.


** Updated:
Original measurements were with lamp on Normal (high).
Eco mode seems to drop lumens by about 14% added nbrs in "( )"

Hmm. . .

My throw on a 106" screen will be about 18 feet back -- which is at the far end of the throw distance. If I use Color 1 mode - lamp on high - it looks like a NEW lamp will produce about 255-275 lumens. As the lamp ages, it will go down from there.

What do some of you consider "acceptable" lumen output for a punchy image?