I would hope that MS would release a combo drive for us supporters of HD-DVD personally I want HD to win because well I just bought a drive. If Blu-
Ray was to win by that time to do a combo drive would be super easy. So I guess I'm just throwing out some food for thought. Hope MS is listening.

Does anyone still buy stand alone players? :confused:

For this generation of Xbox it does not matter which format wins becaue there will unlikely be a HD storage device for games. Likely the next generation on Xbox will have a drive (HD or Blu-ray) and possibly be dual format to support all software manufacturers. There will be no winner for this format war anytime soon, espcially with the sub $200 players being flooded the HD-DVD way. Only reason why Blu-ray is still afloat is because of the PS3, subtract that from the equation and there are really only a small number of people that have bought stand alone blue ray players. HD format still pales in comparison to regular DVD. It is still just a niche market and likely will take many years to be the dominant format. In that time, if MS and Apple have their way, both Blu-ray and HD will become obsolete in favour of broadband.

honestly by the time one wins it wont matter as the live service will be up and running (hopefully with netflix subscriptions and purchasing of content along with the missing studios... i really think its a matter of time before the rest of the studios come on board) and it will make both bluray and hd-dvd useless.

the bigger question is for the ps3.... if bluray fails then its a substantial blow to sony because thats the reason the ps3 costs as much as it does.

Theres enough of these Blu Ray VS HD-DVD threads already. When I come to the Xbox section, I would hope to get away from the jungles that are in the HD-DVD and Blu Ray sections and just talk about gaming.

Theres enough of these Blu Ray VS HD-DVD threads already. When I come to the Xbox section, I would hope to get away from the jungles that are in the HD-DVD and Blu Ray sections and just talk about gaming.

Well don't click on the thread it's not that hard.

Neither BD nor HD DVD are going to win. WIth the way things look, they're both going to end up being niche products and are only stop gaps to the day when something better will come along. There just isn't enough demand for HDM by the general public. Of the two, BD has more notoriety and support it seems while HD DVD has more penetration in terms of standalone players and of course the big bonus of being first to offer < 200 for a standalone. Hopefully one or the either wins out and gains mass market success or we are all going to be watching dvds in the near future.

I don't see either format dying before the end of this generation of gaming.

Does anyone still buy stand alone players? :confused:


Yes plenty of people do. Do you really think 5 major CE manufacturers would be producing them if no one bought them?

Sony
Sharp
Pioneer
Panasonic
Samsung

If Blu-Ray "wins" then.............

I will continue to enjoy great games on GAME consoles! Yay!

The loser will bow out a la Laserdisc. You can still keep it and enjoy the movies in that format but ultimately your whole setup will have a short life. I personally have both HD DVD and Bluray players but I try not to buy movies--it is better to rent until a clear winner emerges.

Who cares..



For the record.. MS has said they will release a BR addon drive if the technology ever "wins".. with the release of Transformers on HDDVD only and Toshiba HDDVD players under $200 this holiday though you are talking about a war that will end a long long time from now.. Not to mention the ability download movies in HD on the 360 makes BR and HDDVD less attractive to normal Joe..

Now can we get back to talking about gaming in the gaming forums?

HD-DVD are already under $200 this weak without "specials" or sales.

If Br "wins" my HD-DVD's will still be playable and if HD-DVD "wins" my BR disks will still be playable.

And Laserdisc lasted for what 20 years? Neither BR or HD-DVD will last half as long!

lol @ laserdisc, jstu took our old LD player off of our old RPTV :)

i prefer BD personally so i hope BD wins, but either way im prepared with a PS3 and X360 AO player

Microsoft already said they have no ties with either but went with HD-DVD because it was more economical but if Blu-Ray wins they wont be opposed to releasing on that format unlike Sony if HD-DVD won.


That said, I like a lot more of the Blu-Ray releases than I do the HD-DVD in terms of title but the quality stinks...I see way to many Blu-Ray discs using old ass mpeg-4 than VC-1.

That said, I like a lot more of the Blu-Ray releases than I do the HD-DVD in terms of title but the quality stinks...I see way to many Blu-Ray discs using old ass mpeg-4 than VC-1.

I think you mean mpeg-2, and that was maybe a fact at the beginning of the year. Almost all new releases are avc or vc1 for BD

If Blu-ray wins Scientologist will stop making crop circles and we'll all fight monkeys for sport and profit. I will be installed as the new Czar of Prussia and I will force my subjects to open their milk cartons from the "illegal" end, screwing it up beyond repair.

Unfortunately, all of that will happen if Blu-ray doesn't win too, so it really doesn't matter.

I think you mean mpeg-2, and that was maybe a fact at the beginning of the year. Almost all new releases are avc or vc1 for BD

Really thats a surprise to me? Seriously its not hating I support both equally but the fact still stands the BR releases are less than stunning...Im less impressed with them...I question why I support both really.

The loser will bow out a la Laserdisc. You can still keep it and enjoy the movies in that format but ultimately your whole setup will have a short life. I personally have both HD DVD and Bluray players but I try not to buy movies--it is better to rent until a clear winner emerges.

So if one emerges, with your logic, you will have to trash one or the other because you failed to purchase any content for it. I know people who still play laserdisc's on their laserdisc player because they purchased. Pretty tough to rent them now.

Stock pile yourself a good collection while you can so you dont force yourself to throw that obsolete player away when you can't rent media for it anymore.

Enjoy both formats, as I do.

I would hope that MS would release a combo drive for us supporters of HD-DVD personally I want HD to win because well I just bought a drive. If Blu-Ray was to win by that time to do a combo drive would be super easy. So I guess I'm just throwing out some food for thought. Hope MS is listening.
This has already been addressed here and elsewhere ad nauseam.

For the record, MS is NOT listening. They are behind Toshiba and HD-DVD right now. Sure, that might change in the future but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

If Blu-ray wins out in the end, you have your HD-DVD player for all of your current movies and you buy a BD player for all future movies. Simple solution.

Or, just rent movies like I do. :)

And Laserdisc lasted for what 20 years?

And only god knows why. ;)

If LD lasted that long, then the winner of Blu-Ray/HD DVD should last that long too. LD probably never had a market share as large as Blu-Ray/HD DVD currently have.

I think people will still be attatched to having the disc of a movie. I think that
1) If your hard drive crashes you may lose the movie you bought, whereas a disc is your to put in a safe place.
2) People like collecting things, and they like to look at their discs all organized in rows.


Granted we will probably get to the point where people are cool with ALL digital. But I just don't think it's this gen for movies. Mayeb next gen.

Just my 2 cents.


So I think that HD discs will take hold eventually. Someday thats what everyone will own....Hd Tv's and cheap Hd players. Then theey will naturally want the movies to go with it.

I think people will still be attatched to having the disc of a movie. I think that
1) If your hard drive crashes you may lose the movie you bought, whereas a disc is your to put in a safe place.
2) People like collecting things, and they like to look at their discs all organized in rows.


Granted we will probably get to the point where people are cool with ALL digital. But I just don't think it's this gen for movies. Mayeb next gen.

Just my 2 cents.


So I think that HD discs will take hold eventually. Someday thats what everyone will own....Hd Tv's and cheap Hd players. Then theey will naturally want the movies to go with it.


I dont think HD discs will ever fully take off. Download is the way of the future. What exactly does "Next gen" mean anyways?

Ive always said as soon as download speeds are ready, one of these IT companies or even a cable company will come with an extremely slick user interface ala iPod that makes the storage/organizational aspects of movies just as good as having a collection of actual movie cases. A good place to look is with the music industry. People have been downloading and organizing their music for years now, and a lot of folks dont even bother with CD's any more. Radiohead is even trying to give their new album away online for free and asking for "donations". Movies in general, HD included, are headed down this path. I think like CD's, it will be a long while before discs are actually done away with, but the transition is coming very soon.

I think people will still be attatched to having the disc of a movie. I think that
1) If your hard drive crashes you may lose the movie you bought, whereas a disc is your to put in a safe place.
2) People like collecting things, and they like to look at their discs all organized in rows.


Granted we will probably get to the point where people are cool with ALL digital. But I just don't think it's this gen for movies. Mayeb next gen.

Just my 2 cents.


So I think that HD discs will take hold eventually. Someday thats what everyone will own....Hd Tv's and cheap Hd players. Then theey will naturally want the movies to go with it.
ms has already solved problem #1 by marking your account that you bought a tv show.... so in the event of a hard drive failure you can just redownload the episodes. that said i still want a monthly fee a la netflix and can just download any movie anytime i want and its actually better than netflix because its much faster to get the movie to start playing... imo its the best of both worlds where you have a massive collection at your fingertips which can load almost instantly for many people (ie those people with 6.5+ mbit internet connections) and didnt spend thousands of dollars for it.

I dont think HD discs will ever fully take off. Download is the way of the future. What exactly does "Next gen" mean anyways?

Ive always said as soon as download speeds are ready, one of these IT companies or even a cable company will come with an extremely slick user interface ala iPod that makes the storage/organizational aspects of movies just as good as having a collection of actual movie cases. A good place to look is with the music industry. People have been downloading and organizing their music for years now, and a lot of folks dont even bother with CD's any more. Radiohead is even trying to give their new album away online for free and asking for "donations". Movies in general, HD included, are headed down this path. I think like CD's, it will be a long while before discs are actually done away with, but the transition is coming very soon.

"Ive always said as soon as download speeds are ready" really? Until everyone has FTTH it will never replace physical media.

I think people will still be attatched to having the disc of a movie. I think that
1) If your hard drive crashes you may lose the movie you bought, whereas a disc is your to put in a safe place.
2) People like collecting things, and they like to look at their discs all organized in rows.


Granted we will probably get to the point where people are cool with ALL digital. But I just don't think it's this gen for movies. Mayeb next gen.

Just my 2 cents.


So I think that HD discs will take hold eventually. Someday thats what everyone will own....Hd Tv's and cheap Hd players. Then theey will naturally want the movies to go with it.

Well you have to look at the market.. I like to choose the audio side first because thats where the digital future has already hit home.

How popular has buying CD's become since MP3's became a hit? How much do people care about MP3 compression schemes? Or 7.1 lossless sound? How many people just want to hear the song, right here, right now with very good very clear quality.



I have no doubt the future of HD video is downloads, but I do think its still a good 10 years away. Dont get me wrong, any cable, satellite or internet based TV service has downloadable movies available right here right now. But the bandwidth to deliver these types of media is still at a premium.

Honestly the 360 is the only one I'm familiar with that can give you instant satisfication of a large catalogue of HD movies. Satellite and Cable both off HD movies for PPV.. but I'm dont think they are true downloads. I think they both run during specific time frames.. and lets say if its 12:28pm right now when I'm writing this.. you'dhave to wait till 1pm for the next HD movie to start playing.

I think once the technology has matured, and there has been a standard made for downloading HD video that it will take off. And for 4 specific reasons:

1) Contrary to what you believe, I think alot of people dont want to buy a disc just to watch a movie. Especially a $20-30 movie that they will watch once, maybe twice. HDDVD or BR needs to be in the bargin bins at Walmart if it wants to become mainstream. I just dont see that happening. If Blockbuster is still making plenty of bucks charging $5 bucks for a rental.. you have to believe a $3 or $4 downloadable rental is even more appealing.

2) Contrary to what you also believe, I think alot of people dont want to own discs. I had a huge audio and videotape library.. where is that now? Or how about all the CD's I've bought over the years.. most are scratched, stolen or missing. My DVD collection is still about 300 discs.. but its simply a dust collecting eyesore in the modern living room where Flat Screen TV's and the "less is better" look is becoming more the norm. Also women and teenagers are becoming the fastest growing group in terms of money spent on electronics.. how interested do you think women and teenagers are in building up another disc collection?

3) Instant gratification. The is nothing more satisfying than getting something you really want, right away. The eaiser and cheaper content providers can deliver us digital movies.. the more popular they will become.

4) Unlimited rental subscriptions. This is where Blockbuster and Netflix are striking gold. For those that really love movies, I mean really love movies. They love watching as many movies as possible for a reasonable fee. If downloadable HD or SD movies could follow some sort of unlimited subscription policy it would really, really change the tide.



There will always be the audio and video enthusiast/phile who want the very best quality, the least compression, and something tangible they can hold onto for ever in theory.

But that person is a much smaller audience than the average Joe who wants to enjoy that media experience right now, as cheap and easy as possible.. and move on to another media experience another day.

Regardless of which "wins", both will co-exist. There will be way too many players out there for either side to ignore that market. My own personal belief is that both will be fairly close for a while, then Blu-Ray pulls ahead fairly substantially. That doesn't mean I am gonna stop being neutral, panic, and sell all my HD DVD's. Lets just enjoy ALL the HD we can and stop worrying about which wins.

Neither format will win, they will both always co-exist. When affordable dual-format players exist, then we'll have winners. And those winners will be the consumers.

Neither format will win, they will both always co-exist. When affordable dual-format players exist, then we'll have winners. And those winners will be the consumers.

And thats what I find so funny. These companies/studios are shooting themselves in the foot with this "format war." Due to this war both sides have had to drastically cut prices, offer buy one get one free deals, include all sorts of main ins and free discs just to try and kill each other. Its great for consumers, but sucks for them. With the way things look, it'll be like this for a long time and the only real winners are consumers. They're losing the opportunity to make one of these formats the next dvd with every day that passes. Sooner or later, optical formats will become another dinosaur of the past. It is too bad for these companies that they couldn't have stayed in the original framework of the DVD Forum and figured out a way to bring about a single format for all of them to get behind.

My DVD collection is still about 300 discs.. but its simply a dust collecting eyesore

Mine was too. I moved a lot in college. Moving a few hundred cases sucks. After one move, I had enough and they all went into a big case logic disc case. The cases went in the garbage. When purchase a new movie -- case in the garbage, disc in the big "folder o' movies".

Really thats a surprise to me? Seriously its not hating I support both equally but the fact still stands the BR releases are less than stunning...Im less impressed with them...I question why I support both really.

Maybe your setup for BD is wrong then. If you look at reviews of movies coming out, BD has a slight edge in picture quality, so you should really find BD movies to look slightly better (or more realistically, exactly the same) as HDDVD movies.

That said, both formats have some poor transfers, so maybe you were unlucky and picked some bad BD ones too.

Neither BD nor HD DVD are going to win. WIth the way things look, they're both going to end up being niche products and are only stop gaps to the day when something better will come along. There just isn't enough demand for HDM by the general public. Of the two, BD has more notoriety and support it seems while HD DVD has more penetration in terms of standalone players and of course the big bonus of being first to offer < 200 for a standalone. Hopefully one or the either wins out and gains mass market success or we are all going to be watching dvds in the near future.

i think people still are getting into DVD. i know for a lot of movies, like comedies, i don't need 1080p or lossless audio. upscaled on my PJ looks great, and i'm not rebuying all those movies.

now, for special effects monsters, like transformers or spider man, sure, but that just puts it, as above, a niche product.

I dont think HD discs will ever fully take off. Download is the way of the future. What exactly does "Next gen" mean anyways?

Ive always said as soon as download speeds are ready, one of these IT companies or even a cable company will come with an extremely slick user interface ala iPod that makes the storage/organizational aspects of movies just as good as having a collection of actual movie cases. A good place to look is with the music industry. People have been downloading and organizing their music for years now, and a lot of folks dont even bother with CD's any more. Radiohead is even trying to give their new album away online for free and asking for "donations". Movies in general, HD included, are headed down this path. I think like CD's, it will be a long while before discs are actually done away with, but the transition is coming very soon.

downloading movies is something that is a lot farther off than i think people truly realize. half of the US still doesnt even have broadband access or capability, and this is a high percentage of the people buying and watching movies. to go download only and not try to keep a disc alternative would be suicide for the movie studios as they would be severely limiting their market.

it will happen, but the HD discs will take off well before that if you ask me. it took dvds years to get its groove, why not HD discs?

Does anyone still buy stand alone players? :confused:

yes because if u have a the addon ur cheating ur self the xbox is a poor dvd player. owner of a a30 and the addon...

yes because if u have a the addon ur cheating ur self the xbox is a poor dvd player. owner of a a30 and the addon...

I think you're trying to say that the 360 add-on is no good?

I disagree. Just purchased mine a week ago. Load times are quick, pq is wonderful, upscales even burned dvds exceptionally! My xbox360 runs quiet as does the dvd player. Haven't found a reason yet to doubt the purchase.

If BluRay wins then I'll get one of those but for now HDDVDs more than satisfy my needs. Plus I spent $170 on the thing vs having to spend twice as much on a bluray stand alone.

Even if they stop making HDDVDs in 3-4 years just consider I rented the HDDVD player for $3.50 a month...the cost of a beer at happy hour :)

For this generation of Xbox it does not matter which format wins becaue there will unlikely be a HD storage device for games. Likely the next generation on Xbox will have a drive (HD or Blu-ray) and possibly be dual format to support all software manufacturers. There will be no winner for this format war anytime soon, espcially with the sub $200 players being flooded the HD-DVD way. Only reason why Blu-ray is still afloat is because of the PS3, subtract that from the equation and there are really only a small number of people that have bought stand alone blue ray players. HD format still pales in comparison to regular DVD. It is still just a niche market and likely will take many years to be the dominant format. In that time, if MS and Apple have their way, both Blu-ray and HD will become obsolete in favour of broadband.

Then why does Blockbuster only rent Bluray in their stores? I would think HD would be more rented.

I think what's failed to be mentioned is that it's likely that neither format will win, and both will slide into obsolescence. Technology is moving a LOT faster now than it was in the days of Laserdisc, which was why it was around for so long. We're very close to a future of on demand programming in high def, and whatever the next format beyond 1080p will be called. The transition from Laserdisc to DVD took what, 15 years? 18 years? The transition from DVD to HD-DVD/BR took about 8ish years (It's hard to pinpoint exact dates on these things). If we assume then that development times of the new technology is halving itself (Which is usually how technology swings), then we can probably assume the successor of the two formats is close to being released and that this argument will be moot (I've read about several red laser high-def formats which are burgeoning).

Then why does Blockbuster only rent Bluray in their stores? I would think HD would be more rented.

I dont know about your store.. but all the Blockbusters around me still rent HDDVD instore. I know they had an announcement a few months back.. but if you go into a store you wouldnt know the difference other than the BR section is bigger.

I dont know about your store.. but all the Blockbusters around me still rent HDDVD instore. I know they had an announcement a few months back.. but if you go into a store you wouldnt know the difference other than the BR section is bigger.

Agreed. Around me they have both as well. That being said there are far more blu-ray players than HD players (I think the number is 10:1 when including PS3) yet the difference in sales is barely 2:1. This is because many people like me jumped at the PS3 because it does everything. MY HD library favours HD 24:17 over blu ray. I just buy the best movies out there reguardless of format, and if I do not want to buy, I rent what ever is available. I would not have bought a stand alone blu ray player at this point in time, nor would I have bought a stand alone HD player (however with the Toshiba A2 hitting sub 200, with 5 free movies I would get that if I did not already have the Xbox add on).

I like many enthusiasts here on AVS forums likes gadgets and the latest stuff (heck I even have a Proceed PMDT, and I am not going to tell how much I spent on that), but this format 'war' is actually keeping people on the fence. Even myself, if not for the Xbox add on or the PS3 I would have still been waiting till now, but for $200, jumping in would cost me very little (I spent $600 for my 1st VCR, my parents spent $1000) but that was when VHS became the dominant format over Betamax, so jumping in was not an issue. I personnally think that Sony has done so many things that are propriotary that it annoys/scares most people (Betamax, memory sticks, UMD, Bluray etc).

Well don't click on the thread it's not that hard.

lol, pwnd ;)

Deals like these can potentially turn the tide. $99 for a stand alone HD DVD player is a GREAT deal:

http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section=secret&utm_source=Walmartcom&utm_medium=POV1&utm_content=secret1&utm_campaign=holiday&povid=cat14503-env15844-module117144-lLink1

I think you're trying to say that the 360 add-on is no good?

I disagree. Just purchased mine a week ago. Load times are quick, pq is wonderful, upscales even burned dvds exceptionally! My xbox360 runs quiet as does the dvd player. Haven't found a reason yet to doubt the purchase.

If BluRay wins then I'll get one of those but for now HDDVDs more than satisfy my needs. Plus I spent $170 on the thing vs having to spend twice as much on a bluray stand alone.

Even if they stop making HDDVDs in 3-4 years just consider I rented the HDDVD player for $3.50 a month...the cost of a beer at happy hour :)

Disagree all you want doesn't make me wrong. I have the addon and it sucks. PQ sucks and sound sucks. Its has been noted on many times that it slow s the 360's boot time down. If you think the 360 can scale a regular dvd you have never seen a real upscaler because the 360 is garbage. The 360 does some weird color scape when it does movie play back. black doesnt look quiet black and reds are washed out. I will sell you my addon for 100 bux. doesn't mean its a great bargin even at that price ;)

In what world does 1080p VC-1 and maxed bit rate DD or DTS suck?

In what world does 1080p VC-1 and maxed bit rate DD or DTS suck?

with the addon the color spectrum does not look correct. i have a a30 to compare it to the picture quality is night / day between the 2.

I have tested them both on 3 different dispalys

panasonic ae900u projector at 108"
50" 1080p panasonic plasma
32" 720p phillips LCD

anyone can yack about resulution/codec and audio supported. it does not do a good job with DVD and HD DVD playback.

Disagree all you want doesn't make me wrong. I have the addon and it sucks. PQ sucks and sound sucks. Its has been noted on many times that it slow s the 360's boot time down. If you think the 360 can scale a regular dvd you have never seen a real upscaler because the 360 is garbage. The 360 does some weird color scape when it does movie play back. black doesnt look quiet black and reds are washed out. I will sell you my addon for 100 bux. doesn't mean its a great bargin even at that price ;)

Wow, you must have some bionic eye because the blacks on my display are too dark if anything and the reds come in sharp as should be.
I too have tested this on a 56" led dlp 1080p, 42" aquos 1080p, and 32" sammy 1080i. Looked great on all of them but I left it hooked up to the dlp.
Perhaps some display calibration would do you good.

You say the sound is bad as well. I'd would be interested to know what kind of system is putting out this horrible sound. My 5.1 Def Tech setup sounds just great. Again I've spent a lot of time calibrating my entire HT so perhaps that is why the difference in experience.

Thanks for the offering to sell it to me but I dont buy used electronics.

Wow, you must have some bionic eye because the blacks on my display are too dark if anything and the reds come in sharp as should be.
I too have tested this on a 56" led dlp 1080p, 42" aquos 1080p, and 32" sammy 1080i. Looked great on all of them but I left it hooked up to the dlp.
Perhaps some display calibration would do you good.

You say the sound is bad as well. I'd would be interested to know what kind of system is putting out this horrible sound. My 5.1 Def Tech setup sounds just great. Again I've spent a lot of time calibrating my entire HT so perhaps that is why the difference in experience.

Thanks for the offering to sell it to me but I dont buy used electronics.


I never said red was not sharp, i said innacurate. blacks are a grey like it does not pass true blacks. Did you miss the part where I said I have another hd-dvd player and I have no issue with performance? Maybe I think it sounds like crap because I have a audio system capable of lossless audio and my other HD-DVD player supports it. I suppose you don't ?

I also have an Oppo and its light years ahead of the 360 for regular dvds. the 360 imo sucks at DVD/HD-DVD playback.

An interesting read on this subject: http://www.cnbc.com/id/21581845

Don't know about you guys buy my HD DVD player looks about as good as my PS3 playing Bluray discs. I woundn't say one is superior in video. I can however tell a difference in the audio giving the edge to BD.

One thing that people always forget is that the reason why standalone BD players are only a fraction of all PS3's is because the PS3 was the first affordable BD player. If there were $400 and $500 units on the market when the PS3 was introduced there would have been a LOT of people choosing to go the standalone route. Also, the big negative with BD is the ever-changing format. Many still prefer the PS3 until the format stabilizes a bit more because of it's ability to be upgraded. My point is you can't judge this format race by the number of stand-alone players on the market.

P.S. DD and DTS do suck for next gen formats. There should be a lossless or uncompressed audio format (I really don't care which one) on every HD DVD and BD sold period.

Don't know about you guys buy my HD DVD player looks about as good as my PS3 playing Bluray discs. I woundn't say one is superior in video. I can however tell a difference in the audio giving the edge to BD.

One thing that people always forget is that the reason why standalone BD players are only a fraction of all PS3's is because the PS3 was the first affordable BD player. If there were $400 and $500 units on the market when the PS3 was introduced there would have been a LOT of people choosing to go the standalone route. Also, the big negative with BD is the ever-changing format. Many still prefer the PS3 until the format stabilizes a bit more because of it's ability to be upgraded. My point is you can't judge this format race by the number of stand-alone players on the market.

P.S. DD and DTS do suck for next gen formats. There should be a lossless or uncompressed audio format (I really don't care which one) on every HD DVD and BD sold period.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=826131&highlight=color

Here is a thread that I started some time ago. Maybe people are using it with a HDMI capable xbox and it looks better then mine. i dunno i just have component output.

I'm also only using component on my xbox but it is going through my Sony receiver which is being pumped out @ 1080p through the Faroudja chip. My only complaint with the video is the motion judder. Sure wish they would do 24p. Guess I'll have to wait until I but a stand-alone player in the future.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=826131&highlight=color

Here is a thread that I started some time ago. Maybe people are using it with a HDMI capable xbox and it looks better then mine. i dunno i just have component output.

Amazing. Ripping a perfectly good product in post after post and doesnt even have it hooked up properly. Go try vga or hdmi and then come back so an apples to apples discussion can be had.

To answer the original question; If BluRay won some people might buy one, connect it using an S-video cable and then complain about how much worse it looks than Oppo.

To answer the original question; If BluRay won some people might buy one, connect it using an S-video cable and then complain about how much worse it looks than Oppo.

????? Perhaps some people are not as informed as people here on AVS are and sure this may happen in a few instances, but how is this related to BD or HD DVD? Exactly what message are you trying to get across?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=826131&highlight=color

Here is a thread that I started some time ago. Maybe people are using it with a HDMI capable xbox and it looks better then mine. i dunno i just have component output.

So wait a minute. If you are using component output only how the hell do you know what "UPSCALED" dvds look like on the Xbox 360.

And I quote:
Disagree all you want doesn't make me wrong. I have the addon and it sucks. PQ sucks and sound sucks. Its has been noted on many times that it slow s the 360's boot time down. If you think the 360 can scale a regular dvd you have never seen a real upscaler because the 360 is garbage. The 360 does some weird color scape when it does movie play back. black doesnt look quiet black and reds are washed out. I will sell you my addon for 100 bux. doesn't mean its a great bargin even at that price ;)

Its the people like YOU on AVSforum who scare me the worse.. because you spread the wrong information about things you are technically uninformed about. It also makes me wonder if your equipment is even setup correctly.

I guarantee you if you take the time to use the search button you will find there are 100 people that have stated HDDVD playback & DVD upscaling looks absolutely beautiful on the 360 for every 1 person that isnt pleased with the picture..




Also since you believe "PQ sucks" check what Cnet.com had to say about the HDDVD addon.. I believe most people would call them a pretty credible source:

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/microsoft-xbox-360-hd/4505-6463_7-32138037.html

CNET editors' review
Very good
7.0
out of 10
The good: Excellent image quality on HD DVDs; decent upscaling on film-based DVDs; HDMI output when used with Xbox 360 Elite or newer Premiums; relatively inexpensive compared with standalone models; can access advanced multimedia features, just like standalone players; includes remote; adds extra USB port to 360.

The bad: Can't decode or pass advanced Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD soundtracks; no analog multichannel outputs; more expensive than a standalone HD player if you don't already own an Xbox 360; adds more bulk and cables to your 360 setup.

We originally tested the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player in December 2006, soon after it was released. At the time, we compared the picture quality of the Xbox 360 HD DVD player with that of our reference video player (at the time), the Toshiba HD-A1, which we also connected to the component-video output at 1080i. We then sent their respective signals to three HDTVs we had on hand: the 1,366x768 Panasonic TH-50PH9UK as well as the 1080p Sony KDS-R60XBR2 and Pioneer PRO-FHD1. In short, the Xbox 360 looked just as sharp as the Toshiba, and the picture was essentially identical in every way--which is to say, it looked great.

All this stuff about downloading; does anyone remember DIVX and that attempt to compete with DVD? Studios would love that sort of control over their rental market. Quick sumup of DIVX; studio-backed you buy the disc for extremely cheap, then throw it in your DIVX player (which had to be connected to the phone line) and you then you got a certain amount of time to watch the movie. Anytime after that if you wanted to watch it again, you paid a rental fee. Consumers didn't put up with that and I don't see that happening anytime soon with downloadable movies either. Having it physically there to caress you, knowing you just pop it in and play it when you like; don't need an internet connection just to watch a movie (ISPs aren't all that dependable and aren't likely to reimburse you because your wife is pissed she couldn't watch the latest Sandra Bullock movie). Anyway, I think we'll be seeing both formats for awhile, but one will ultimately survive (HD-DVD, sorry, had so say it) and it will be used until we all have that wireless IP address directly beamed into our skulls. Sorry if off-topic, but it looked like a lot of the posts were steering this way.

Amazing. Ripping a perfectly good product in post after post and doesnt even have it hooked up properly. Go try vga or hdmi and then come back so an apples to apples discussion can be had.

To answer the original question; If BluRay won some people might buy one, connect it using an S-video cable and then complain about how much worse it looks than Oppo.



AMAZING!!!!!!!!! not every display has a vga input and not every xbox has a hdmi.

So wait a minute. If you are using component output only how the hell do you know what "UPSCALED" dvds look like on the Xbox 360.


And I quote:


Its the people like YOU on AVSforum who scare me the worse.. because you spread the wrong information about things you are technically uninformed about. It also makes me wonder if your equipment is even setup correctly.

I guarantee you if you take the time to use the search button you will find there are 100 people that have stated HDDVD playback & DVD upscaling looks absolutely beautiful on the 360 for every 1 person that isnt pleased with the picture..


Also since you believe "PQ sucks" check what Cnet.com had to say about the HDDVD addon.. I believe most people would call them a pretty credible source:

CNET editors' review
Very good
7.0
out of 10
The good: Excellent image quality on HD DVDs; decent upscaling on film-based DVDs; HDMI output when used with Xbox 360 Elite or newer Premiums; relatively inexpensive compared with standalone models; can access advanced multimedia features, just like standalone players; includes remote; adds extra USB port to 360.

The bad: Can't decode or pass advanced Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD soundtracks; no analog multichannel outputs; more expensive than a standalone HD player if you don't already own an Xbox 360; adds more bulk and cables to your 360 setup.

I have seen the 360 upscale via VGA it is not as good as a OPPO player that I have. Again maybe its realative to what else you have seen. Picture quality sucks is a bit harsh but compared to what the a30 does its not nearly as sharp or color accurate.

Its amazing when someone gives an opinion based on two products they currently own. There are enough people on both sides of the fence to justify it either way. Maybe its people like you that have inproperly setup equipment that think what they see is great. The stones could be tossed both ways. Maybe there are 100's of people that dont have at there homes a better product then this and claim it be wonderful when they don't have the means to see that its not the cream of the crop hd-dvd player.

85% + precent of xbox's built do not have hdmi and a VGA is not a standard option on every tv.

I never said red was not sharp, i said innacurate. blacks are a grey like it does not pass true blacks. Did you miss the part where I said I have another hd-dvd player and I have no issue with performance? Maybe I think it sounds like crap because I have a audio system capable of lossless audio and my other HD-DVD player supports it. I suppose you don't ?

I also have an Oppo and its light years ahead of the 360 for regular dvds. the 360 imo sucks at DVD/HD-DVD playback.

maybe it is your display. Seems to be upscaling just fine for me.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2337/1625097863_1f19cf2e3b_b.jpg



Ignore the cables please currently upgrading :D
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2172/1625983660_36c269d983_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2131/1625969464_ce454511e6_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2206/1625959574_27c18178d9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/1625936204_c5ff1623f9_b.jpg

Even though the HD-DVD isn't upscaling as you kept saying to begin with. The 360 does all the processing.

By the time Blu-Ray wins, if it did, the price of players should be that of current HD-DVD
players. I still buy DVDs but only when its not coming to Blu-Ray. I will have to say that
as much as I prefer the PS3s hardware im not sure it can match the Xbox360 in the
games department. Xbox360 is a pure game console, the PS3 is a Jack Of All Trades
media machine and vise versa. I dont think the Xbox matches the the PS3 in video
playback, be it upconverting dvds or playing HD disks. I do agree with the 360s colors
not being that great.

Hmm...a thread with almost the exact same title was locked over at the PS3 forum... I will have to read your guys take on this.

maybe it is your display. Seems to be upscaling just fine for me.






Ignore the cables please currently upgrading :D


Even though the HD-DVD isn't upscaling as you kept saying to begin with. The 360 does all the processing.


i never said that a 360 does scaling on HD.... where did you read that?

I have both formats and they for the most part, use the same encodes. They look the same. I think some people have a preference and hope to influence this war. Early blu ray had mpeg2, but almost all new flicks have much better and identical encodes. I would suggest you go neutral and rent from netflix. Why own non rare disks? I love hd and don't see the need to limit myself. I don't care which one wins, but I think it will be a prolonged war. We still have dvd plus and dvd minus. For the moment, HD is a niche.

Maybe your setup for BD is wrong then. If you look at reviews of movies coming out, BD has a slight edge in picture quality, so you should really find BD movies to look slightly better (or more realistically, exactly the same) as HDDVD movies.

That said, both formats have some poor transfers, so maybe you were unlucky and picked some bad BD ones too.

I have both formats and they for the most part, use the same encodes. They look the same. I think some people have a preference and hope to influence this war. Early blu ray had mpeg2, but almost all new flicks have much better and identical encodes. I would suggest you go neutral and rent from netflix. Why own non rare disks? I love hd and don't see the need to limit myself. I don't care which one wins, but I think it will be a prolonged war. We still have dvd plus and dvd minus. For the moment, HD is a niche.

I agree with all of your points, but the analogy of DVD+ and DVD- as not in the same ballpark. The media you record on has nothing to do with the content and establishing a video standard. It would be like saying I like VHS and prefer to record my own movies on TDK and not Memorex tapes.

Given the Toshiba price slashes this week to $99 for the HD-A2, my guess is that price will win out with HD-DVD and bury BluRay just like the betamax.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/01/best-buy-offers-the-toshiba-hd-a2-for-100-too-and-other-hd-dv/

i'll peep in to do my little rant about this

bluray and hddvd will fight it out but they will both lose in the end; DVD will be the only winner, and downloadable-everything will replace BR/HDDVD before they come widly accepted


that being said, the folks with the attitude of "i just like watching my HD discs, and i don't expect it to replace DVD" have the right attitude; if you like it, and can afford it, go for it, it's all good, but if you think that EITHER bluray or HDDVD is going to "win" and become the successor to DVD you're mistaken; NEITHER of these formats are the SUCCESSOR to dvd, and people need to realize it, they're a stop-gap between DVD and downloads, whether they be on-demand or internet or whatever

these formats are not a radical step forward; only instant gratification of downloads will end the war

i'll peep in to do my little rant about this

bluray and hddvd will fight it out but they will both lose in the end; DVD will be the only winner, and downloadable-everything will replace BR/HDDVD before they come widly accepted


that being said, the folks with the attitude of "i just like watching my HD discs, and i don't expect it to replace DVD" have the right attitude; if you like it, and can afford it, go for it, it's all good, but if you think that EITHER bluray or HDDVD is going to "win" and become the successor to DVD you're mistaken; NEITHER of these formats are the SUCCESSOR to dvd, and people need to realize it, they're a stop-gap between DVD and downloads, whether they be on-demand or internet or whatever

these formats are not a radical step forward; only instant gratification of downloads will end the war



Everyone keeps saying oh download is the wave of the future and yes I believe you are right but let's not forget something here. To Download hd movies takes longer than Jesus's ressurection. So for the immediate future I can see one of these formats taking the lead they may not win out entirely but it's going to be a long time before we see download speeds fast enough to match itunes music download speeds for me or most people to want to do it. Especially when I pop a disc in wait 30 seconds and it's instant gratification that's the key. I want it now not 4 hours from now!

I like owning the discs tbh. If anyones ever had a hardrive fail on them and lost everything, then you already know the downside of having your HD movie collection downloaded and stored on one.

I like owning the discs tbh. If anyones ever had a hardrive fail on them and lost everything, then you already know the downside of having your HD movie collection downloaded and stored on one.

While everyone is in the midst of how downloading was going to win. did we ever stop to talk about how big the drives's would have to be to hold a few hundred movies. I have 600 DVD's now a few HD's I'd be need a a couple terabyte's and those are "real cheap". Cost is a factor.

I think you guys are confusing "owning" digital movies with "renting" them. With PPV services movies "rented" are generally viewable as many times as you please within a 24 hour period. After that they are gone.

The scenario we are discussing is which would be more accepted by the average consumer. Buying a $100-500 HD disc player and then buying movies at $20-40 on discs to play on them.

Or downloading rentable $4-6 HD movies on your Cable box, Xbox360, Internet Provider which are good for 24 hours - 2 weeks use.



If you are talking about "owning" digital movies then I'd imagine.. Yes.. most people would definitely want the disc. Then again if your Cable box, Xbox360, Internet Provider could store those digital movies indefinitely.. then I'd imagine they too would be alot more attractive than ever owning and paying more for a disc.

The loser will bow out a la Laserdisc. You can still keep it and enjoy the movies in that format but ultimately your whole setup will have a short life. I personally have both HD DVD and Bluray players but I try not to buy movies--it is better to rent until a clear winner emerges.

I have 20 year old CDs, so the question is how long is not long enough? Something breaks, repair it. Most manufacturers will support most products from a parts perspective for anywhere from 8-15 years.

With 98.00 HD DVD players you don't have to worry about the title of this thread for a loooooong time... :eek:

The majority of consumers are not comfortable enough with technology to download movies. We are a loooong way off from that becoming the norm. Give it another 10 years and then we will see.

Besides, we as AVS enthusiasts should never settle for sub par quality downloaded hd. The compressed signal that I get when I download "hd" movies from my 360 is utter crap when compared to watching BD's on my PS3 or HD DVD's on my Toshiba XA-1.

i'll peep in to do my little rant about this

bluray and hddvd will fight it out but they will both lose in the end; DVD will be the only winner, and downloadable-everything will replace BR/HDDVD before they come widly accepted


that being said, the folks with the attitude of "i just like watching my HD discs, and i don't expect it to replace DVD" have the right attitude; if you like it, and can afford it, go for it, it's all good, but if you think that EITHER bluray or HDDVD is going to "win" and become the successor to DVD you're mistaken; NEITHER of these formats are the SUCCESSOR to dvd, and people need to realize it, they're a stop-gap between DVD and downloads, whether they be on-demand or internet or whatever

these formats are not a radical step forward; only instant gratification of downloads will end the war


1st off blu-ray will most likely win especially since WB is considering going exclusive in 2008 because blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 2-1 and 300 on blu-ray sold WAY more than HD-DVD did and. and all HD-DVD would have is universal which doesnt even have that many great titles that i would even want to own in HD id rather just keep the dvd version of them. Paramount will be back to Blu-ray in 2009 if HD-DVD isnt done by then because they got paid off 150 million dollars for 18 months.

Now when it comes to downloading, that will not become the norm for many many many years. just look at the marketplace on the 360. why woul i pay like 5 dollars to only watch something for 24 hours when i can buy the actual movie for 15-20 dollars and own it forever and watch it as many times as i want and let friends borrow it. let alone that after you download stuff that takes up a lot of memory on your computer and then it barely even works.

I just dont understand why anyone would want to download movies. its STUPID!

1st off blu-ray will most likely win especially since WB is considering going exclusive in 2008 because blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 2-1 and 300 on blu-ray sold WAY more than HD-DVD did and. and all HD-DVD would have is universal which doesnt even have that many great titles that i would even want to own in HD id rather just keep the dvd version of them. Paramount will be back to Blu-ray in 2009 if HD-DVD isnt done by then because they got paid off 150 million dollars for 18 months


You must have missed the announcment about Transfomers recently having the highest sales ever for a Hi-Def movie which is on HD-DVD. By the way how is the Blockbuster deal going since they went exclusive months ago with the announcment and now possibly going to go down under?

Now when it comes to downloading, that will not become the norm for many many many years. just look at the marketplace on the 360. why woul i pay like 5 dollars to only watch something for 24 hours when i can buy the actual movie for 15-20 dollars and own it forever and watch it as many times as i want and let friends borrow it.

Some people don't care to own the movie how is this concept hard for you to understand about others that enjoy the choice?

Now when it comes to downloading, that will not become the norm for many many many years. just look at the marketplace on the 360. why woul i pay like 5 dollars to only watch something for 24 hours when i can buy the actual movie for 15-20 dollars and own it forever and watch it as many times as i want and let friends borrow it

Because not everyone wants to own the movie and watch it over and over and over and over. Some are content with watching it one damn time and move on so your 15-20 dollars compared to 5 bucks saved them 10-15 bucks to do just that.

let alone that after you download stuff that takes up a lot of memory on your computer and then it barely even works.

Ever heard of the delete button. You can use the option also on the 360 and the PS3 harddrive to free up space if needed. Great option to have. Time to upgrade if it is barely working for you.

I just dont understand why anyone would want to download movies. its STUPID!

So it is stupid to download movies huh? So if I don't care to spend the gas, drive thru the rain, wait in line to rent a movie or wait on a netflix movie to arrive in about 2 days(I guess that is stupid too huh)

To back up what MbooJigga is saying..

I have OVER 300 DVD in my collection I have purchased. Out of that 300:

250 I've watched atleast once..
100 I've watched more than once..
50 I've NEVER watched.. bought either at a great price or to watch later with someone special
25 I've NEVER even taken out of the shrink wrap..

Now granted most of the titles I've never watched or opened are $5 Walmart bargin bins.. or 3 for $10 specials.. or $3.99 used titles from Blockbuster.. but the fact remains for the most part when I purchase a movie.. I still only watch it once..

I'm simply not interested in starting a new collection of HD discs.. paying $20-40 bucks for a disc.. and watching once or so.

I'd imagine not many people who own DVD's watch them more than once.